Expert as if he were a political opponent. The president s education secretary could not answer a basic question about whether schools should follow the cdcs guidelines to reopen. This morning, a source close to the Coronavirus Task force tells dr. Sanjay gupta a lot of schools probably should not open. Joining us is cnn chief medical correspondent dr. Sanjay gupta. Sanjay, i know you spoke to dr. Fauci over the weekend. He has read these attacks, this Opposition Research put out by the white house on him. What is his reaction . I think its very disspiriting for him. Most of all, hes a public servant. Hes bebeen doing that for 40 years. The briefings going away and outofsight, outofmind sort of thing. Not that anybody is mad at him but dont want to see him because he reminds them of this problem, but that transitioned as you point out to the much more overt sort of attacks and trying to go back and find interviews thats done in the past and say hey, this is where he got it wrong. This is where he got it wrong. Thats wheat theyre spending their time doing as opposed to dealing with the numbers on the right side of the screen. Let me give you one quick example. I dont know if we have this still of some of an interview they wanted to show the white house wanted to show about dr. Fauci to show that he got it wrong, but they selectively cut it. Let me show you at least what the white house has put out. Should we be changing or habits . At this moment, there is no need to change anything youre doing on a daybyday basis. Thats what they put out and say look, here is an example. Dr. Fauci back end of february said no need to do anything, no need to change anything on a daybyday basis but what they dont show you and this is true over and over again, with some of the Opposition Research, is the complete context of what he said. So let me show you the rest of that. Now the risk is still low, but this could change. Ive said that many times, even on this program. Youve got to watch out, because although the risk is low now, you dont need to change anything youre doing. When you start to see community spread, this could change and force you to become much more attentive to doing things that would protect you from spread. We learned all along, you know, new things with regard to this virus. Its a novel coronavirus, but i think that even back then, again, this is the end of february, if we see community spread, here are the things that then need to happen. If we have this idea of wanting to reopen states, here are the criteria that need to be followed. So all these things that needed to be done, that if had they been done wed be having a different conversation right now, were not done and i think dispiriting is probably the right word. Here we are focusing on these things, im having this conversation with you today about this Opposition Research to dr. Fauci, as opposed to real plans Going Forward, which exist and have been demonstrated in countries around the world. Florida had more cases yesterday than south korea had throughout this entire pan demme pick. Its possible to be in a very different place. We need to get there. And by the way, sanjay, we dont need to look to other countries. Look at the states. In this country that have done it well. New york, this weekend, new york city reported not a single death. So what used to be the place where hospitals were overrun, where every day we were dealing with so much death, zero. Connecticut on friday as well as last tuesday reported zero deaths. So again, even in our own country, places that have gone from being hot spots to now we could follow the model and because i live there, i can tell what you the model is. You are looked at, you are eyed with alarm if you walk out without a mask on in connecticut or new york right now. I mean, im not saying that people people dont like shout you down, but you definitely see alarm in their eyes. So everybody is wearing a mask right now. There are responsible models that we could follow right now. Yes. It becomes the norm, and it works. Thats the other thing. I mean, as gloomy as the news is, as frightening as this virus is, we know that ultimately, its just a small strand of rna that could be easily contained by a mask, cant jump that far and by doing basic Public Health measures you could be having a different conversation. We could be talking about sports this fall, we could be talking about schools reopening in a safe way that makes sense across the country this fall. Were not able to have that conversation, because the very idea, the very notion of possibly having to shut down again is something nobody wants, but at the same time, in many of those places, people arent doing the things to prevent that from happening. So its really getting to be a source of frustration, i think, amongst just about everyone i talk to. I spent all weekend talking to Public Health officials in many states around the country, saying give me some good news. Give me something that i can sink my teeth into here and the good news is that there is a way out. Were not dealing with some complex equation here that no one has quite solved yet. Weve solved it. Just got to implement it now. There is a way out. The way out isnt to attack dr. Fauci with Opposition Research or quote Chuck Woolery. Eight clear thats not the way out. I spoke to mayor francis suarez. He said its not in control in miamidade county, which is alarming, this morning. And i also asked him about his considerations on new stayathome orders. What would the Tipping Point be . He said when the hospitals are overrun, when they dont have any more capacity and were starting to see some icu hospitals in miamidade, seven of them have reached capacity. I watched the interview. I think hes being very thoughtful. I still have to say, you get behind the curve on this and wait for the hospitals to reach capacity, and youve waited too long at that point, because then youre going to run into the crisis situation where people who otherwise would benefit from care, benefit from being in a hospital wont be able to get one, get a hospital bed. So i understand where hes going with that and i heard similar sentiments from other mayors in texas and arizona. The problem is that, that is sort of waiting too late. If you want to start to put data on it and go back and look at some of the original evidence in templ terms of the way this needs to be handled, if you have a five day in a row increase, the same increase of community spread, that should be a signal you have to dial things back. Maybe not necessarily close things down again but dial things back, maybe closing some things down again. So its a tough thing to say hey, look, well wait until we basically have gone over our Hospital Capacity and then start to make a difference, because theres so much inertia in terms of the virus thats built up in the community at that point, i think it becomes hard to dial it back. Youll have tragic stories, some of which we saw in northern italy, just a few months ago where people could not get into the hospital, that would have been saved who otherwise died. So we just cant run into that situation here. Sanjay, i want to go back to dr. Fauci for a second. Hes going to the white house today. We got word there are meetings thats going to the white house for. I know you spoke to him over the weekend. Over the weekend, dr. Fauci i think also said the most unvarnished thing yet about why he hasnt been on television much. He said he has the reputation for speaking the truth, which may be why he hasnt been on tv lately, and look, his Approval Ratings are probably, almost three times as high as President Trumps who americans trust, and i just wonder, does he fear at all if he might lose his job . I think its a very fair question. I think he very much wants to stay in the job and im purposely being careful here, because it is one of these situations now, right, where i think i do believe i think just as a citizen that having a guy of his scientific experience and capabilities and the job is really important for us, im talking about from a humanity sort of standpoint so i think the idea the National Academies and all the big medical organizations are rushing to his defense says something here. Theyre speaking with one voice. Public Health Community doesnt always speak with one voice but with regard to fauci, they are. I think the meetings at the white house are a signal that he does very much want to stay on the job and sort of say hey, what gives here, guys . How is this going to play out Going Forward . So hes going to have meetings with people. Thats coming from outside reporting. I knew that, but i think his desire is not to try and leave the job. Its to stay in it and figure out the best way to do than. We heard betsy davos not answering questions from dana bash about how schools will reopen. Youve done reporting from people inside the u. S. Government give you their sense of when and only when schools should be reopening. Yes. What has become increasingly clear, and i talked to Administration Officials about this also over the weekend. We interviewed dr. Redfield this past week, i saw the interview with education secretary davos over the weekend. Weve seen the basics in terms of trying to keep kids six feet apart, which is very, very challenging in some of the School Districts that dont have the square footage, mask, hand washing stations, some Testing Available on site. What is it going to take within the community to understand whether or not schools should open . Every community is different and what were hearing and this again goes back to the evidence that was presented a few months ago was that youd like to have these communities already have demonstrated a 14day downward trend and i know that that maybe just makes peoples eyes glaze over at this point. If you have a 14day downward trend, you got to a low enough absolute number of cases per day in your community that its manageable, that you can then test, isolate, trace, all the things that weve been talking about, and on the flipside of that is that if you have a fiveday increasing trend of cases that, probably means you need to resert bavert back to t earlier phase. Schools will have to close if they already reopened, this is the basic data thats been out there for some time and data these sorts of guidelines that have worked in other countries around the world. Other countries have had these stutter starts, started opening schools, had to close them down again because they were following this data and as a result theyve been able to keep their case counts low. Dr. Sanjay gupta, thank you very much. We really appreciate all of the information, sanjay. You got it, thank you. Why is President Trump going after dr. Fauci and the cdc . What is the president s plan as the virus gallops through 35 states this morning . We discuss with john harwood at the white house, next. No matter where you live, where you live has never mattered more. For over 100 years, realtors® have been providing expert guidance, helping people find new places to dream and thrive. When youre ready. Look for the r. At this hour, more than 135,000 americans have died from coronavirus. More than 3. 3 million cases in the u. S. And counting as the pandemic worsens, the white house is taking aim at discrediting dr. Anthony fauci and the president is promoting statements from Chuck Woolery the Game Show Host that the cdc is lying about the pandemic. Joining us now, cnn white house correspondette john harwood. Im trying to figure out a strategy and bear with me here. Almost like this is the mel brooks film the producers where theyre trying to produce a broadway flop here, going out of their way to make a failing response to the pandemic and politically speaking going after dr. Fauci and promoting Chuck Woolery seems springtime for hitler in the producers movie. What is the strategy . Why are they doing this . There is no strategy, john. This stems from the impulses the pathology of the president of the United States. To say donald trump is trying to discredit Anthony Fauci with respect to coronavirus is sort of like me saying im going to it discredit lebron james on the basketball court. Its not possible. What we have the difference between donald trump and Anthony Fauci is this, and yes, both have said Different Things at different times about the coronavirus. Anthony fauci has changed his position on some things like mask wearing and whether people needed to change their behavior. Weve been watching the clips all morning. But its the difference between someone who is experienced, who is capable, who is public spirited, who is adjusting his views in response to the facts for the benefit of his fellow citizens, with someone, im talking about the president now, who doesnt know what hes doing, not honest and cares about no one else other than himself. If you look at the results in the United States as compared to other countries, which also had a terrible problem, but then have crushed the virus, theres no other conclusion you can reach but that the incompetence of the Trump White House has lit the country on fire and what the president is doing is retweeting a Game Show Host saying the cdc is lying and talking about how joe bidens ratings are down. He had his economic adviser on the Television Show saying its the chinese communists who have done this to us. It is madness, but what were seeing in the polling and the evaluations of the president and his matchups against joe biden is that a significant majority of the country is now recognizing that its madness. So john, whats the president s plan . What is the president or the white houses plan to get hospitalizations under control, get deaths under control, get those 35 states that are spiking this morning under control . Wait, is that a serious question, alisyn . Yes, john, it is. Im truly asking forget the president. How about the white house . You know that he has no plan. Does the white house have a plan . Look well, what we have is a situation where a large percentage of the government is trying to work around the president as if hes not there. So yes, the cdc, despite the president tweeting a Game Show Host smear against it is trying to do its job. It put out guidelines on reopening schools, although we saw the president s education secretary yesterday would not embrace in any serious way those guidelines. You have Anthony Fauci trying to do his job at nih and in the Infectious Disease division of nih. So yes, there are people who are working very hard, members of the task force, to try to get information, to try to coordinate with states, to try to remedy some of the holes in the administrations response, but weve seen that the problem is, if you do not have coordinated leadership from the top, it is very difficult to be effective, and clearly the federal government has not been effective, and states which follow the lead of this president have also not been effective. So it is a very difficult situation, its not clear exactly how we get out of it, other than the fact that you do have local officials and state officials who do have a connection, a close connection to their constituents, and at the end of the day, are going to have to take actions that reflect the reality of the situation they find themselves in. Thats why you see people like Governor Greg Abbott of texas having reversed some of the reopenings, ron desantis in florida a very trumpy governor, followed the president s lead about reopening quickly now paying a big price for it but he is reacting. Ultimately politicians have to respond to their constituents, the closer they are to the ground the more responsive they are. We covered president ial campaigns before, political campaigns before. Usually when Opposition Research is dumped, its done anonymously. In this case, the white house, again, this isnt the president , this is a coordinated effort, the white house wanted us to know that they were attacking Anthony Fauci. Thats one part of it i still cant get my arms around there, john. They wanted us to know they were attacking fauci. Why . I cant figure out why they would want to do that. The president s obviously tried to sort of play both sides on this, and diminish the prominence of fauci without openly going to war with him, but the problem is, the facts are so at odds with what the president is saying that he doesnt have much choice but to go to war against the science, go to war against the truth, go to war against the facts, and try to hope that in all the confusion and fog that that creates, that people have difficulty ascribing who is actually at fault. Again, the country is on fire. The president sort of waving his arms around and casting blame in various places. Whether or not people are going to be confused by that, i suppose is an open question, but they havent been confused so far. John harwood, thank you for trying to tackle all of our questions. Is that a serious question . Wait. Are you go being serious . Yes, the plan, just the plan, yes, that was the question. All right. So a battle over how to deal with a soaring number of new coronavirus cases in georgia. The mayor of atlanta joins us next. L customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need . Given my unique lifestyle, thatd be perfect let me grab a pen and some paper. Know what . Im gonna switch now. Just need my desk. My chair. And my phone. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. 49i found you good job. Now im gonna stay here and you go hide. Watch your favorites from anyw