hours of testimony. >> not only are the president's attorneys still in the dark about it, the president himself is rattled. remember it was don mcgann who threatened to quit when president trump attempted to fire robert mueller last june. sources confirming that federal authorities are preparing charges against michael cohen. the u.s. attorney's office is investigating cohen for possible bank and tax fraud as well as campaign finance violations for hush money payments to stormy daniels. those charges could come next week. and today, paul manafort served the trump campaign for 18 months. he's facing 18 separate counts of bank and tax fraud. he also faces charges on money laundering and fraudulent lobbying. good evening, everyone, welcome to the program. here's what the sources are telling cnn, mcgann didn't provide incriminating information about the president. he doesn't believe he implicated trump in any wrongdoing. give me your assessment of this? >> i don't understand how they can say that so confidently. the key piece of evidence that remains is trump's state of mind. we know the acts he did. they would constitute obstruction if done with corrupt motive. mcgann is in the white house, he calls the president king kong. he's the guy who trump directs foe tell sessions to recuse before he -- mcgann knew he couldn't do it. he's the guy that argues against the comey firing, he was there shoulder to shoulder, he doesn't know what mueller knows. it seems implausible to me that in 30 hours he doesn't provide factual material that's illuminating about the president's state of mind. i think it's overconfident to be saying that at this point. >> the real question is, why would trump's lawyers not debrief mcgann because he's given 30 hours of interviews. much of which the trump legal team is in the dark about. >> 30 hours is like a book on tape, isn't it? that's a lot of testimony, the white house got nothing out of this in return for letting all A recap of the day's news. with the russian ambassador shortly after the comey firing. i mean, there are ways that evening if he doesn't say ex, ex can be inferred when you put what he's saying next to what other people are saying, and then you really do have to add to that, the failure to debrief is interesting. it suggests they did not understand what was going on here. and that suggests there may have been admissions that were made, but we really don't know. >> nancy, let me ask you, i asked this question in the last hour, do you think it's finally starting to settle in, that this president is realizing don mcgann is not his personal attorney. he represents the office of the presidency. >> i think now that we're talking about why it is that mcgann had no defense to talking to mueller. i mean, he could have raised issues, he could have raised administration has exposure, and he wanted to make sure that he was not the one holding the bag. so -- >> which was the motivation for dean coming forward, wasn't that the motivation for john dean coming forward? during watergate? >> assuming the reporting is accura accurate. and i have no reason to think it's not. >> did you say it was possible or not toblg possible? >> i was agreeing with jack that there's no way -- they spoke today. this really is the legal gang that couldn't shoot straight from the top. first of all, nancy's right, no attorney client privilege. and executive privilege is a hard road to tow. the fact that they can try to reel back in the testimony i was just agreeing -- -- >> they can't do it? stripping president obama's access to intelligence briefings. just listen. 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>> it would be strange for this presidency. i mean, come on, this happens on every front on every day, the fact that he would look back at obama and say, let's cult him out of something. it doesn't surprise me. i hadn't hurt it before, but it doesn't surprise me. it does help undermine one of the arguments we heard about the letters that have been coming out from former security officials about the john brennan revocation of the clearance. which is all about the fact that he violated some aspect of the security agreement. there's been no evidence about that for john brennan, and there's no evidence that i saw in this story or had heard otherwise that barack obama had somehow violateded norms of presidential behavior or violated what it would take to remove ex-presidents with standard intelligence brieflyings, would have to be ended. i don't know where that came from other than spite. >> let's talk about this new yorker report. that his team wanted to revoke the clearances of obama officials. but then h.r. mcmaster stopped it. what's the reason, what is the reason former administration staffers usually get to keep their clearances? >> in one case, and i think in the report it made clear that these were national security council staffers who were held over, staying in some of their jobs as directors, possibly even senior directors at the nsc. in that case, that's for continuity of government. you have some people who know what's going on on these various issues internationally. keeping those people on board with security clearances makes sense. it's also possible that some of the people were senior officials, like we've been talking about with former cia directors that you might bring people back in for consultations, can you always give them classified information on a spot basis, but it's much easier and much more efficient if they retain those security clearances so they can have those conversations more easily. >> president trump told reuters tonight that he hasn't given a lot of thought to revoking the idea of robert mueller's security clearance. he didn't rule it out, though. how bad would it look that the president is under investigation by mueller's office? >> i mean, i -- i can't fathom that that would be something that we would actually see happen. it seems like there would be no clearer way to obstruct justice than to obstruct in an obstruction of justice investigation. which is exactly what you would be doing if you were trying to pull robert mueller's ability to view classified intelligence as part of a classified counter intelligence investigation that he -- >> how many times have you said, i could never imagine that anything -- i couldn't fathom this would happen, and then it happens. >> and as david said, that's been almost the daily story of this presidency, i think we spend so much time focused on donald trump breaking norms, that part of this -- part of what we're losing in this is why other people are breaking those norms, why john brennan, why jim clapper, why mike hayden are speaking out in the way that they are. i mean, admiral william mccraven when he came out last week, asking the president to revoke his security clearance, so that he could be on record as against the administration, i mean, that was a phrase and a public action i never thought i would see from someone like him. i've covered john brennen. i've covered jim clapper, these are not men who scare easily, these are not men who cry wolf. the fact that they are out there shouting at the top of their lungs day after day at this point, that this man is a threat to our nation's rule of law, and our democratic institutions is something that we should be focused on. >> well, david, let's talk a little bit more about that, because former cia national security agency director michael hayden told cnn today that the relationship between trump and the intelligence community is dangerously close to being permanently broken. how dangerous is it -- the state of relations between the president and the intelligence community, that it's so bad that it's at risk of being permanently broken? >> one of the dangers here is that there is the fear -- and i haven't heard this directly from many people, because thankfully most of the people still doing national security currently are putting their heads down and doing their job, trying to protect national security. but the fear that has to be there is, if we start down a road of revoking security clearances, based on political speech, which let's be honest, that's what this is, does that also pertain to the truth to power that intelligence analysts are trained to deliver to policy makers. if you have to go to the president of the united states and give him a message that you know he doesn't want to hear because it's inconvenient for his policy. are they going to hold back because of fear that they will be punished for giving an uncomfortable truth to the president of the united states? that is the biggest danger, which is it that the very function of a very expensive intelligence community will be undermined completely if this goes down that slippery slope any further. >> trump's lawyer, rudy giuliani is daring john brennan to take president trump to court. to john brennan, president trump granted our request, jay seculo and me, to handle your case. if you don't, it would just be like obama's red lines p.m. come on, john, you're not a blow hard. i can't believe that anybody -- i mean -- i'm actually reading that from the president's lawyers is beyond -- but if brennen follows -- >> this isn't some random ambulance chaser he's found off the back of a park bench, this is something who is one of the nation's most revered federal prosecutors who's entire career is based on the hard work of men and women in the fbi and men an women just like robert mueller. >> the fact that i'm reading that is beyond, who would really have the upper hand here if that indeed happened? >> i think john brennan certainly has the upper hand going into any battle in this situation. i mean, as steven said, it seems very clear that the president is taking this action based on john brennan's public first amendment protected speech. and that there is no hint of official misconduct that would lead to the revocation of a security clearance. >> one thing that's laughable here, i heard earlier today, that they were saying, well, this would be great for discovery. maybe that was trump in one of his tweets saying, sure, if john brennan wants to sue us, then we're going to find out all kinds of secrets about him. do you think that somebody who has been under frequent reinvestigation as part of his career for 30 years, with a polygraph and everything that comes with it, how many secrets is john brennan going to have come up in discovery that are embarrassing, versus how many he will be able to get out of the president in the same process? it's laughable? >> maybe some tax returns, who knows. >> thank you. i appreciate it, when we come back, did president trump use the n word on the apprentice. omarosa claims he used the slur in reference to kwame jackson? guess what, kwame is here. next. as king midas, here at midas, you will too. and your oil change comes with a tire rotation as well. ooo that's good! i could put that on an airplane banner. hmm. maybe. nice work. was that...? yeah, king midas. yeah. at midas, we're always a touch better. which is why our $19.99 oil change also includes a tire rotation. book your appointment now at midas.com president trump denies claims by former aide that he used the n word while taping the apprentice many i want to talk about this now with kwame jackson, who was runner up on season one of the apprentice. good evening. you were on with omarosa, weren't you? >> i was. >> did you lose because of her? >> i don't blame her for that, it's her, all her little craziness and things that she does. i've gotten over it in the last 15 years. >> 15 years of therapy to work through it. >> you know, just for transparency, we discuss this, and i know some things you're comfortable talking about, others you're not. i know you don't want to give a platform to stupid tutty. >> right. >> you said if you had heard him, you're not saying he didn't. but if you had heard him personally yourself, you would have -- >> i would have said meet me outside, i know he's a 70-year-old man and he's the president now, but if someone's going to call you that, he's going to call you is that to your face. it's not whether he used the word or not, it's about whether the word makes a difference. it's about the fact that even if there is a tape that says kwame jackson n word, left, right, here in the middle, will america react in anyway that it's not reacting before, what i learned from the election is, racism, bigotry, scene phobia, homophobia are not disqualifying factors to becoming president of the united states. that's what broke my heart during the election, we stand up and say the pledge of allegiance as kids, there's all these great principles we're taught, and you wake up election morning and say, people will look the other way on things that are supposed to be fundamental disqualifiers. >> you are saying it doesn't matter, the tape doesn't matter? if he said it or not, it doesn't matter, do you believe that's what -- >> i'm saying they're not the dead sea scrolls, you're not going to walk down and say, the word of god has been revealed to me, they're not al capone's vault, it's not going to change anything. especially with his base, it's not going to change things. >> why is that? >> swing voters, maybe. >> it's a sad state of affairs. >> i think it is. we have to revisit that as a nation. intrinsically in our history, race has been woven in, this history of slavery, jim crowe, pernicious behavior against others. that's something we really never addressed as a nation. and for others, they want to look the other way for great economic numbers. they want to say, that's great he's that way to some people, but my 401(k) went up 3%. >> that whole thing about the economy and that there was -- economic anxiety -- >> it's what happened in starbucks. >> it's race. >> you will not replace us is economic anxiety. >> so for -- what's happening is clearly about race, and you said again that it wouldn't make a difference. if he did. i'm just wondering what that says about our society and our culture that -- because there was a state senator on who said, it wouldn't make a difference if he used the word, because he didn't use it as president or something. it's an odd. >> the funny thing is, i talked about this before that. the n word is not the only litmus test for racism. it's not standing in someone's yard burning a cross with a hood. and now you're racist. there's data points that lead up to that that we all know in this president's long history. >> do you know of donald trump using -- >> i've heard scuttlebutt for a long time that these tapes exist, and i've done my part to look up those tapes and see what could come of that, really, nothing has come of that so far. >> last week the president tweeted to say there were no tapes with him using the n word. do you believe mark burnett would call him to tell him something he should have already known. i think he's personally played the sidelines, there's been lots of opportunities for leadership among my contestants, among producers for people to step up i know in the long arc of history, people who were favoring mccarthyism or the confederacy, they're going to look stupid. >> you said you've gotten over the last 15 years, you didn't win the apprentice, trump felt like you should have fires omarosa from your team. >> watch this. >> kwame, a couple things bother me and bother me bigly. omarosa lied to you, she deceived you. not only once. but twice. >> why didn't you fire her? >> at that will time i didn't know that was an option. and i had a job to get done. >> i don't like just moving them over, i like firing them. and you should have fired her. >> okay. >> so when the president deceives us, should we do something? >> you mean fire him? >> slu we fire him? >> he said you should have fired her, but he kept hiring her. >> yes, he did. over and over on multiple shows. she's been a fixture in his administration for the last 15 years. i don't look the other way on omarosa's essentially menstrual bee lav yore, america has applauded her on. now to come back and say, you know, i've got the goods on mr. trump as one of my friends told me, it takes a crook to catch a crook. if her tapes reveal things about trump, god bless her, that does not discount her bee lav yore or this president who has gotten us in this condition. it's like celebrating the arsonist now that they've become a fireman. >> do you think this is a reh rehabilitation tour for her? >> not for me. i believe there's scuttle butt she could bring down the president. i'm all for that, because i don't think he should be in office. you should have never helped him to become president. to say this is a come to jesus moment for omarosa and she can get back in the fold and be invited to the bbq again is not what i think. >> when you're watching this play out, do you think, this is the political version -- >> yeah, i call it america's addiction to junk food. we all like cheeseburgers and fries, but if you eat them every day, guess what happens, you get a president like trump, diabetes all kinds of problems. i understand people like the bright shrineny object, this whole big show, at some point we have to go a little vegan, do a little exercise and not just eat junk food. >> he didn't want to do this initially he said i don't want to give a platform to something that is horrible. you want to elevate the conversation by doing what? >> for me, this is about taking a stand, and saying, enough is enough about junk food, there's a smart lady that once said, when they go low, we go high. this is not about me coming on and criticizing omarosa. this is about the principles of our nation that are at stake. these are the principles i talked about three or four years ago. and i warned america where we were going in this process. and now we're here again. we have another chance to come together and i'm encouraging america to do that, hopefully through my own actions. >> boom! >> snap it out. you got to snap it out. >> all right. >> thank you, sir. >> thank you. when we come back, a trump speech writer who attended a conference of white nationalists is out of the white house. he has no regrets, that's next. pah! that will never work. hawaii is in the middle of the pacific ocean. we're the most isolated population on the planet. ♪ hawaii is the first state in the u.s. to have 100% renewable energy goal. we're a very small electric utility. but, if we don't make this move we're going to have changes in our environment, and have a negative impact to hawaii's economy. ♪ verizon provided us a solution using smart sensors on their network that lets us collect near real time data on our power grid. (colton) this technology is helping us integrate rooftop solar, which is a very important element of getting us to our renewable energy goals. ♪ (shelee) if we can create our own energy, we can take care of this beautiful place that i grew up in. ♪ a speech writer for president trump has left the white house after an investigation revealed he atefrned a conference freak wented by white nationalists. he's listed as a speaker for the 2016 menken club conference, a small annual conference attended by people like richard spencer. let's discuss. hello, everyone. good evening. >> before we talk about this former white house speech writer, i wanted to hear your reaction to my conversation with kwame jackson. he says it doesn't matter. i i? i did that, i know i did, in one of my takes at the beginning of the show. it doesn't matter -- do you think it matters, simone? >> don, i guess agree with kwame in the sense that i don't need the tape to assess the president's views on people of color. i mean, we have a tape from the white house earlier today. so i guess i -- we don't need the tape, what we should be colonaled with is the type -- what is actually going on in this white house, the policies that are coming out of the administration, the things donald trump is not tweeting about, like the judges, the carve gnaw nomination down the line. we don't need the tape, donald trump told us who he was a long time ago. >> he said what was happening in the white house, tara, he said it was a menstrual show, basically just sort of -- >> i said that, yeah, no, i've made that reference before, and i think i also called diamond and silk political menstruals, because this is what seems to entertain donald trump. i don't think if the tape exists and we heard it in a different way -- i thousand if the 2016 campaign, if that had come out after the access hollywood tape, that might have taken trump down. i think it would be too much for the country to accept a president who said the n word and grabbing women by the genitals. i've already heard conservative commentators and others making excuses for this saying, well, it depends on what context he said it, and no, it shouldn't matter what context he said it in, it's not acceptable at all. that makes me believe that it's not going to matter to a trump loyalist even though it's wrong. it reinforces what we already know that he's a bigot. >> i think i know scott well enough, context wouldn't matter, can i just -- you probably wouldn't -- >> scott's one of the good ones. >> am i right? >> yeah, look, this tape would matter, i mean, i -- i know it's -- everybody's saying it wouldn't. it would matter, it would be painful for millions of americans, including myself to hear the president of the united states say it on tape, if it exists and is proven, we're speaking in hypotheticals, of course, even though it happened before he was president. to me, what would matter more is how he handled it, how do you go to the american people and say, i'm sorry, here's how it happened, here's why i said it, what would the aftermath be frankly to me, almost would be more important than a tape becoming forward. at that point, the president, who's the president of all of us, would have to explain himself and talk about how he's learned and grown as a person and he's not doing that any more. >> good luck with that. i mean, charlottesville is a perfect example -- >> this is all hypotheticals. >> yeah, that's never happening. >> good luck with that. >> let's move on now, i want to dig into this fired white house speech writer. he participated in the 2016 conference featuring peter renalo. also as well as two former writers for the national review who were both fired forre espousing racist views. what does that say about the trump vetting process? >> it's lacking. i don't even know if it exists at all. it does speak. i don't know if it exists at all. the additional questions i believe this raises, don, what kind of access did the white nationalist that spoke at this conference or the folks that don't self-identify as white nationalists but sub describe to a white supremacist ideology. what type of -- did this influence make it into any of the president's speeches? has it made it into talking points? into concrete policy? have these folks had an audience with other senior advisers of the president? this is absolutely dangerous. and the fact that the white house didn't know until the k file did their reporting and asked about it, i think should be concerning to us all. >> we're going to continue this on the other side of the break, hold your thoughts, please, we'll be right back. the ford st and now is the best time to buy. you ready for this, junior? yeah, i think i can handle it. no pressure... ...that's just my favorite boat. boom. 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