Ground staff in the vicinity of the plane being interviewed by authorities. We learned there are smoke alerts aboard the plane minutes before it crashes into the mediterranean sea, with 66 people on board. Searchers find seats, aircraft parts, suitcases and human remains. Thats according to egyptair and greek officials. The plane disappeared early thursday flying from paris to cairo. U. S. Officials tell cnn their initial theory is the plane was taken down by a bomb, though they caution theres no smoking gun, which doesnt stop guess who from telling the nra this. I have been looking at airplanes getting blown up in the air, lots of bad things happening. It is just not the same. Were going to bring it back, and were going to bring it back to a real place where we dont have to be so fright eened and afraid. Lets go to ian lee. Some debris was found in the mediterranean, what can you tell us about that . Reporter thats right, don. We have luggage, we have airplane seats, weve had parts of the plane itself, and gruesome discovery of body parts as well, and this is helping investigators put a picture together of what exactly happened. Were hearing theres an oil slick in that area as well, although it is not certain if the oil slick is from the plane. Right now focus is on finding those black boxes and getting more pieces of the fuselage, if it was a terror attack, there would likely be signs on the body of the aircraft. These are all pieces of the puzzle that theyre trying to gather, at this hour, trying to get a better idea of what brought down that plane. Was it terrorism or was it mechanical. Ian, were starting to learn identities of some of the victims of the crash. You spoke to some relatives today. What are they telling you . Reporter i went out to a mosque where they were performing the friday prayers in tire oh, met up with a lot of family members of the crew. Talking to the uncle of the copilot, he described someone who was the life of the party. A funnyman who was looking forward to getting married. So a lot to look forward to, talking to other people who worked with the flight crew, they had nothing but good things to say. Right now, the family wants the same thing we want. They want to know what happened. They were frustrated at the pace of the investigation, although it isnt an easy investigation. When you talk to them as well, one of the things thats starting to slip is hope. Some of them still hold onto the fact that maybe their loved ones would be found. For the majority of them, what they also want is that those bodies, if they are able to be recovered to be brought back to cairo so they can bury them. Remember, 66 people lost their lives on the craft. Give them a proper burial. Thank you, ian lee. I want to bring in cnns richard quest, author of the vanishing of flight mh370. He is our expert at cnn on aviation. Richard, theres new information from the 804 flight data that Smoke Detectors went off in the avionics bay and other warnings. What does that all mean . What it means is there was a series of cascading faults and they were taking place at the front of the aircraft. The avionics bay which is immediately under the front galley, lavatories and cockpit, think of that, don, as the brains of the plane and what was happening there was clearly extremely serious. There were also some other sensors that went off relating to the windows, the heating system for the windows, and as this situation, remember, i want you to think of it as a cascading series of events, one thing happens, another thing fails. Before long, the Flight Computers are starting to fail as well, and it is all happening in probably the most sensitive and most significant part of the aircraft. The socalled ene bay, the avionics part. Don, you know, we do not know why this smoke happened. We can say mechanical, we can say bomb, we can say incendiary, but from the investigators point of view at the early stage, theyve received crucial information. They can start to build up a picture. They can start to say okay, don, this failed. We would expect this to happen next. Yep, that happened, or no this didnt happen. From that they build up a much closer, clearer picture of what might have taken place. Lets talk about other things from the investigation that have to do with the investigation. Investigators found debris. What are the next steps, richard. This is the sad part, youre doing two things, looking for debris, and from debris, reverse drift tide, how far, two days since the plane went missing. How far has that debris traveled in two days. Clearly where you found it is unlikely to be where it fell in the water. Then you have to go deep underwater. The depth is several thousand feet. You need to put in place full scale remote operated vehicle, rov, submersibles to try to find fuselage on the bottom of the mediterranean sea, and at the same time try to recover as much of the remains of those loved ones and passengers on board. You know, it is not going to be that difficult, but it is not easy either. It is a long way from shore, certainly not in an mh370 situation where it takes four days to get the ships to the search zone, it is only 118 miles, but it is time consuming. Let nobody be under doubt about this. Were now in a situation where we are days or possibly a few weeks before you have resolution. And not to correct me colleague at 370, i am sure he meant to say instead of 360. Beg your pardon. We deal with a lot of numbers when it comes to aircraft. No one claimed responsibility yet. Are they wrong about terror . No, theyre not wrong, no theyre not right. If it sounds like i am dancing on the head of a pin, thats exactly what i am doing. You start with fundamental circumstance of the plane falling out of the sky. Only a couple of reasons why that happens, one is terrorism. Look at the airports involved, the nature of the scenario, and start to move in a general direction, albeit without evidence or circumstantial. Now we have a crucial fact about fire or smoke. What causes it. My area is aviation, not geopolitical terrorist analysis. Now we know theres smoke and fire, but no warning. The plane falls out of the sky fairly quickly, very quickly. Theres a three or four minute gap. I can say quite confidently i want to put everything back on the table. You cant say terrorism, you cant say mechanical. Everything in my view is back on the table. Richard quest, thank you very much, sir. Appreciate that. Here to discuss all of this, cnn aviation analyst miles obrien and michael wise, and les aven. A lot to absorb. I will start with miles obrien. What do you make of information with the Smoke Detector. You have to put that with other things that were happening. Seemingly dispar at events, but indicative of something really bad going on in the avionics bay. You have Smoke Detector in the lavatory and in the avionics area, computer failures, sensors in the windshield and cockpit, all of that seemingly unrelated, yet i bet if you look at the avionics bay, might be on similar circuits or buses or near each other. Something bad was happening, a cascade of failures all at once. And the crew was by all accounts what we can tell by looking at the greek radar data, responded as they should. They turned off, took a left turn. When you do rapid descent, you dont want to go to this in the sky. You pick the turn, go down fast. Maybe thats what they were doing. Put that picture back up. To have all of this as richard says, cascading effect, a number of different events happening in one place, this plane has a lot of redundancy. Does that happen . It can. If you wanted to find the most vulnerable spot, if you had to pick one place, this is near the top of the list. Was it a bomb, in send redevice. It is interesting it is all in one cluster here that were talking about now. And that doesnt lead you to anything, to terror or mechanical, what have you . It is hard to say. To me it doesnt rule out either. Les, youre a pilot. What happens when Smoke Detector goes off . Whats the protocol . Good question. I look at it from a big picture standpoint. What miles said is very true in regard to the fact this is the brains of the airplane, and a lot of them are designed that way. Fly by wire plane. All of that allows the airplane to operate flight controls. Thats the intelligence part in that Lower Electronics bay. Anyhow, what we would do is we smell smoke, we go we have memory items. We do it in training all the time. Put on your oxygen mask. Communicate with the other guy. You do this out loud. You do it out loud. Put out smoke objects. You put on the mask in a situation taking almost pure oxygen, blowing it out so smoke doesnt get to your mask while you attempt to breathe it. Then you go to a check list. Are you talking to each other. Over the intercom, yes. Youre not saying putting on my mask now. No, youre physically doing it. Some guys will say it so they know how long does that take . That part of it, memory items takes seconds. Just a few seconds. Now you look and assess the problem. Once you assess the problem, you go through a smoke fire checklist potentially in the cockpit, how to remove that and establish where the source is. Thats probably what they were doing. Trying to establish where the source of the fire or smoke was coming from. Thats difficult to do. Alarms going off, does that help you come to conclusion about terror . Absolutely it does. What is most important is the order it happened. You take a simplistic, tactical view, what happened first . The first warning was from the window. The next warning was also from the window. Next warning was propagating into another area. Smoke in the lavatory. Next thing is the back window. Other window fails. To me, it makes sense. You can see the prop allegation, see how it goes. Circuit breaker has miles referred to, theyre behind the seat, behind the pilot seat. Those Circuit Breakers control other components like flight services, spoiler software in the back of the aircraft. Whatever happened, and you cant conclude what happened, but it started with that window in my mind. And still no claim. Why is that . Nobody did it, the other possibility if it was an act of terror, and this narrows it do you know, makes it more scary. If this was planted in the nerve center of the plane, that can only have happened through in filtration at Charles De Gaulle or the other airports, meaning a technician was physically inserting this or somebody in flight crew was doing it. If it turns out to be terror, i think we can agree the likelihood seems to be decreasing now, possibly an autonomous cell tasked with carrying out operation, dont tell us too much what youre doing, dont want signals picked up by the west. Again, huge question mark. We will continue the conversation when we come back. If the plane was brought down by terror, was it an inside job. Well discuss. burke at farmers, weve seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. Even a stag pool party. party music splashing destruction splashing destruction burke and we covered it, october twentyseventh, 2014. Talk to farmers. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum it was all pencil and paper. Started out, the surface pro is very intuitive. I can draw lightly, just like i would with a real pencil. Ive been a forensic artist for over 30 years. I do the composite sketches which are the bad guy sketches. 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We got you covered. And we wont stop we are learning the egyptair was on the ground an hour and a half before the flight. Back with me to discuss, miles, want to talk about the debris. What clues does this give investigators to determine the cause. First and foremost, track down point of impact. You know where the debris is, drift patterns and flow of the current of the sea. And how long it has been in the water. Takes a little mathematics to get you back to the general vicinity where the impact would be. Then get a vessel on the station and drop sonar reception device in. Listen for the noise of the black boxes, ping noise. Then additionally, might be evidence to glean as to how it failed, if there was a piece of luggage or piece of equipment or piece of control surfaces that was involved in the failure, you can learn from that. The mathematics will be difficult because of the current. It will shift where the plane went down and where it could be found. How difficult . The thing that works for that in this area, the fact that it is a singular gyre, it is rotating in a circle. Miss it first time, comes back around. It is keeping things there, helps pinpoint that point of impact and where to start the search with underwater locator beacons. I said the plane was on the ground hour and a half at the charles at tde gaulle airport. How many people had access to the plane . Hard to say, however many are required to service the airplane, could be as many as 20, 25. And they all cycle through, the airplane comes in, you get flight attendants cleaning up the cabin, depending on their policy, you might get a Ground Service crew to come in, remove discarded items in the airplane. From there youve got catering, might have routine maintenance to go and do sort of a cursory walk on inspection. You get pilots walk around the aircraft and do inspection of sorts. You know, everything works in conjunction. Anything that seems amiss, at least to me as a pilot, i am going to notice. Cargo beam load. But i only see doing a walk around inspection, copilot only sees one aspect in a short period of time. Youre not able to see everything that happens and we have been alluding to the fact that electronics compartment is accessible from underneath you. It is possible somebody could miss Something Like that. Nothing is foolproof. So michael, french officials beefing up security at Charles De Gaulle, 30 more officers have been added. What will they do . Interrogate everybody that worked on the plane, do more extensive background checks on technicians, flight crew. You had a case after the paris attacks, 85 people were found to be sympathetic to islamic extremism or on a watch list. Usually the number of people you find is less than the number that are probably complicit or suspect. But again, don, this is an airport thats gone through enormous beefing up of security. First paris, then belgium. The fact this as i keep saying, it is the most expansive operating abroad or in europe has the french chewing the carpet in anxiety and fear Something Like this could happen if this is a terrorist attack. Again, it is always the one that has to get away. If you have somebody that wasnt even necessarily radicalized before isis came on scene, but over the course of the last several years entered into the fold, became a sympathizer, fellow traveler. You never know. A vast number of people look to recruit inside europe. This is the new phenomenon. Would it be putting the cart before the horse to say airport officials around the world are trying to figure out the level of threat at their airports . No, i think as i say, theres a great deal of anxiety. We talked on the show before, u. S. Counter terrorism and intelligence officials look down on the european counterparts, think they missed the boat. This is a decades long problem and phenomenon occurring and cultivated on their own soil and they pretend it wasnt an issue. So no, i think people are quite right to be in hypervigil. When you look at 86,000 people have red badges who can go to restricted areas in that airport, is that concerning . Thats a staggering number, takes you back when you consider how many people have access. European airports are known for tighter security for people to have access. They screen individuals that get closer to the plane, we are told. In the United States we dont do that, we rely on background checks. We have had gun runners using planes out of hartsfieldjackson and drugs have got on the planes. Truth of the matter, if someone is determined, they put something on the plane and the back door is wide open. Meanwhile, we are taking off our shoes, pouring out water. The question i have is we have limited resources. Is that the appropriate way to spend the resource. Les, as a pilot because you have to go through these, whats the security level. How many people really have access and what are the standards for that . Well, me personally as a pilot, i have to go through an entire background check. We have a portal at specific airports we can go through, but we have to go through a background check to utilize that. Flight attendants, same scenario. So flight attendants or anyone, ground crew, pilots. Is it easy to smuggle something on board . At the end of the day we have to reassure people, but weve had a pretty safe system. It is not a perfect system, but yeah, there are ground crew people that also go through screening process for that particular airport, and theyre allowed to load baggage, so on and so forth. Is it possible like miles said for some nefarious stuff to occur, of course. Thank you, les, david, miles. Have a great weekend. 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As i wrote today, and said yesterday, there are multiple theories and no one should be worried that all of them are being followed. Theres nothing wrong with accepting there are limited reasons why an airplane falls out of the air. Mechanical failure, weather, pilot error, and catastrophe like terrorism. A lot of data points point to terrorism, but as i said, i am not there yet because of what you lead in with, no claim of responsibility. We are getting later, since the moment it happened. Isis takes credit for a lot of things. It seems like it is getting too long. Thats the data point that makes me think one of the other explanations might be sufficient. Look, we should be happy. Should be praising this, that there are multiple theories. We want investigators to look at them all. We owe it to the families and owe it before we fix something that doesnt need to be fixed and dont fix something that should be fixed. Anthony may, according to that, smoke alerts minutes before it crashed into the sea. Whats the significance of this, does that change anything sfl. Well, it adds a lot to the scenario. A lot of people said terrorism, bombing. But from a forensic investigators standpoint, i utilize deductive and inductive reasoning. Look at the facts, things we do know. We have an aircraft at 37,000 fr there were s no indication any problems. Radar indicates for whatever reason an abrupt 90 degree left turn was made, followed by right turn, airbus pilots i heard all day long on this station, this channel, say thats physically impossible. A pilot cant to that. We have to come up with another explanation. Acars, aircraft communication addressing reporting system indicated that smoke started in several different areas minutes before this movement, this behavior. Using scientific method, i have a theory. The hypothesis is explosion caused on board fire caused the aircraft to make erratic movements. You showed the Electronics Bay and lavatory and all of that. What i want to point out. It is up now. Just below all of that theres a cargo hold. Now, if a fire started in the cargo hold from lithium battery, oxygen generators, as smoke is rising, different sensors pick them up. The pilot, we are in a closed tube with air circulating, it is going to travel fast. Pilots indicate we have a problem. Theyre doing their checks as the 777 captain indicated earlier. What happens is somewhere along the line we have to explain why the airbus that cant physically do this 90 degree left did that. If we have an explosion caused by a fire, using the Kinetic Energy and physics, it will push the only solid object it has in the object sit direction, the aircraft. If explosion is on the right, it pushes it left. The auto pilot still engaged, it makes a correction back to the right. We saw that in Philippines Airline 434 i believe it was in 1996. I want to get to david soucie. What do you think. Does the smoke indicate anything other than terror to you . When theres fire, theres smoke. Simple as that. Something caused the fire, something caused this heat signature to happen. And it caused smoke. But before that, before the smoke was indicated in this scenario, we have failure of the antiice system in the window. I spent two months in london at Pittsburgh Paint and glass who makes the window, looking at how they relaminate a window. You have metal and current and that can create that inside. Whether it is static electricity, temperature change, it can and has caused fires and cracked windows. To me in my experience, understand i dont have experience in explosives, my experience as airplane mechanic and engineer, what i did to is that. That seems simplest. Big travel weekend, people wonder if it is safe to fly in the u. S. With memorial day coming up. That question is impossible to answer, weve never been perfectly safe, especially with Airline Travel. Risk of Airline Travel is significantly less than any other form of travel essentially. I like to tell people there are a lot of benefits to getting on airplanes and what we can do is enjoy ourselves and understand that there are tragedies like this. One of the reasons we need to find out the cause of this tragedy is if it is an error, mechanics, or if it is terrorism, we need to solve it. I recognize peoples fears but people should recognize the benefits of the kind of mobility that we have, not just in the United States but around the globe. You look at the numbers, millions of people on flights every moment of every day. Thats actually a good thing. Juliet, david, thank you. That has to be the last word. Appreciate it. Coming up, investigators dont know what brought down the egyptair plane. Donald trump says he can practically guarantee he has the answer. Is he going too far . Will it win him votes . Wildlife s open up a lot of dawn. Tough on grease. Yet gentle. Dawn helps open. 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I can practically guarantee who blew it up. Gl listen, donald, listen to yourself now. The mindset of a weak Hillary Clinton, which is four more years of obama is not going to make it for our country. We are being taken advantage of by radical islamic terrorists and this world is changing. And another couple of planes go down, mika, youll have a depression worldwide the likes of which youve never seen. Because nobody will travel. There will be no anything. No communication between countries. You will have a problem the likes of which youve never seen. The question is is he capitalizing on this for political purpose on fear with this particular event . If you look at the whole western world and it is not just an incident like this, but incident like san bernardino, paris, brussels, chattanooga shooting, boston bombing, we face profound civilizational questions about incident dwrags f grags of migrants and terrorism. Youve seen arise in what toss that have to do with this. This is one of the great challenges facing society. How can you have a tolerant western society and safe western society. My question is how does he know, how can he guarantee that the investigators that worked on it for years, who invented research and how you investigate havent come to the conclusion that it is a bombing. He is saying the same thing the intelligence is saying, it does appear to be terrorism. You cannot deny all of the west is struggling with the threat of radical islam brought on by migration, not just in forms of terrorism. Hang on. Hang on. But why is it he is saying that. I hear you saying that. Thats not what he said. Thats exactly what he said. No, it is not. Would you like us to play it again . Thats what you said. These are the hallmarks of a terror attack. Lets play that sound bite, listen to what he said. Play it again. I can practically guarantee who blew it up. Listen, listen, donald, listen to yourself now. The mindset of a weak Hillary Clinton, which is four more years of obama is not going to do it for our country, mika. We are being taken advantage of by radical islamic terrorists and this world is changing. And another couple of planes go down, mika, youre going to have a depression worldwide the likes of which youve never seen. Nobody is going to travel, there will be no anything. There will be no communication between countries and you will have a problem the likes of which youve never seen. He said radical islamic terrorism, nowhere said anything about migration. I have the privilege of working for the campaign, i can represent the campaign in telling you the choice we are bringing to vote is whether or not we followed the same path in europe, have uncontrolled migration, which brings, this is important, hot just the threat of terrorism but brings antisemitism, hostility for people of different sexual orientation, hostility to people with different religious faith. 1. 4 million muslims feel the way a few radical extremists do . Would you like to clarify that . You believe the values of the west to have uncontrolled migration from the middle east. I believe it enhances the west to encourage and support tolerant muslims which are the majority of muslims in this country, and fight against extremism, whether islam or judaism or christianity. You asked the question. We know where we disagree. Is there any capital you would place on annual migration from the middle east . Thats a separate question. Would you place a cap on migration from latin america, mexico, china. The issue is i am not placing caps based on faith or beliefs. Margaret, there are a lot of people who believe it would be the same. I think steven is making a really he started off making a reasonable point that we do have to live in a pluralistic society, we have western civilization the issue isnt what youre debating. The issue is is donald trump using fear as a mechanism in this debate. That was my question. He polls well steven doesnt have to answer it. He is a policy guy. Used to thinking complexly. Donald trump it appears for us watching him nine months is not to be thinking about the issues and the nuancing complex ways that steven is defending him. We do see different skill sets that are necessary to be a candidate and be successful president. If youre a candidate, you can rab he will rouse, be a demagogue, or be responsible and prudent and pretend it is a try out for the presidency. What you see in Hillary Clinton versus donald trump, one of them trying out for the presidency shall the other one trying to win an election in the best way he knows how, which is bomb throwing, verbally. Hang on. I have to get to break. I want steven to respond. I dont mean to beat up on you, you anticipatswered and then ex in a more nuanced in. I will let you get in on the other side of the break. Crest 3d whitestrips whiten. 25 times better than a leading whitening toothpaste i passed the tissue test. Oh yeah. Crest whitestrips are the way to whiten wrely on the Us Postal Service . Because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. Thats why we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. Here, there, everywhere. United states Postal Service priority you so we know how to cover almost alanything. Ything, even a stag pool party. party music splashing destruction splashing destruction burke and we covered it, october twentyseventh, 2014. 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We need muslim communities to actually be vigilant of these kinds of things happening. And if youre going to alienate all of them, then were not going to be successful in this fight. It is actually very simple. And donald trump uses fear, should not surprise all of us, that what hes using is fear to get people on his side. He has done that from the moment he was running for president , calling mexican immigrants rapists and criminals. That is his thing, thats what he uses, and hes going to be in trouble now because a general election electorate is not going to go for it. Go ahead, steven. First of all, blindness to real threats is not a strategy. And political cliches is not a defense to anything. We have admitted 1. 5 million muslim migrants since 9 11. The idea we have some kind of obligation to admit month after month, year after year, an unlimited number of persons with no regard for security, assimilation, screening or the effects on the domestic jobs market is extremism and the polls reflect this. Only 5 of voters support the scale of refugee importation that Hillary Clinton is calling for at the highest level according to all public polling. And finally, on donald trump, lets be clear on this one point. Donald trump is the only candidate who on the question of terrorism and immigration is standing with the majority of the american people, and hes right to say that all of us, all of us should be concerned about the implications for our security and our country if we follow the terrible mistakes that have been made in europe, here in the United States. Leaders have a responsibility to lead with facts and information and im sorry, but counterterrorism experts say that policy will make us less safe. We have a responsibility in part because the our decimation of iraq is what created isis and what caused okay. I need to move on now. I think this is very important. I want to talk about the Second Amendment. Donald trump continues to say that Hillary Clinton wants to abolish the Second Amendment. That is false. That is false by every fact check, by her, by the campaign, everyone who is listening but donald trump. Why does he continue to say that . Because it is true. That was awesome. She never said that. She never even intimated that. I think that a lot of people at this table have a different view about what the Second Amendment means. The d. C. And heller decision, the Second Amendment no longer exists when we consider an individual privilege but a government right. When Hillary Clinton says she wants to overturn d. C. Versus held, shes saying she wants to abolish the Second Amendment by definition. That ignores all constitutional decisions. Even just scalia, justice before he passed, said that the Second Amendment has its limitations and, again, before heller, before heller, we did not hope that the Second Amendment equals the right of individuals to bear unlimited arms with no regulation. It showed the disagreement. You want to uphold the tradition of the Second Amendment in this country. The Second Amendment, the rest of us know. What you have in the race now is something extraordinary. You have the republican nominee tacking to the far right to shore up the conservative part of the base of the Party Instead of running to the right in the primary and tacking towards the general. It is extraordinary that for an issue that actually americans have a pretty there is a consensus about gun rights for the most part. 90 of americans upwards of certainly over 85 want some sort of gun restriction, but they also value the Second Amendment. There is a lot of commonality, a lot of Common Ground on what we can do in terms of Second Amendment. No one is arguing to take it away. It takes steven getting on to explain when he says abolish the Second Amendment, what he means is overturning heller by means of a supreme court. Hes running in the general election now, so by putting out the justices a couple of days ago, by picking a Second Amendment fight with Hillary Clinton, all of these things, what they dont go towards, getting all of the votes that mitt romney won plus. You have to be a unifier on the issues that independents agree on while also being consistent with the party and the ideas that got you nominated in the first place and thats not what donald trump is doing at all. Is there any way to steal any more time, even if we dont get to the can we continue this conversation . This is the best conversation we had this evening. So what do you want me to do . Go to break now or i want to continue this at the top of the hour. Tweet now. Tweet now. Tweet now. Lets go. Keep talking. Keep talking. Go ahead. I think can i just say, we just then witnessed, we talked about one of Donald Trumps strategies earlier, which was focusing on fear. And just now were looking at another of Donald Trumps strategies which is ignore the truth or lie. Because thats also exactly what hes been doing from the moment that he has hold that thought. Well be right back. Music sex machine by james brown as our business is growing, and youre on the road all day long, its exhausting. Hi how are you . Youre on the fourth floor. Thank you so much. Hey sweetie how are you . Its important to stay at a hotel with a lot to offer. Thats great and the holiday inn has really been that. Holiday inn has been a part of the team. Good luck with the meeting today. Thank you. I really think Small Business is tough. Its better to have friends out there. You have a great day. 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