situation, a key event is happening this evening. what do you expect to hear from the candidates tonight? >> reporter: we have a few thousand iowa republican activists who are here to see their field of candidates with the exception of the front runner, donald trump. you mentioned his legal woes. that has become part of the campaign. at least for a night, this will be a trump-free evening in the sense that he will not be here. his rivals will be. when you talk to some republican voters here, some of his supporters are very much with him, of course. we know that his core base is strong. but several are saying that they are willing to turn the page, in fact, interested in turning the page. and the candidates are now trying to seize upon that. there is a sense of urgency among many of his rivals. particularly ron desantis. he's been trying to hit all 99 counties across iowa. he's up to 56 counties. he was campaigning in the western part of the state before coming here to des moines. one thing is clear. he's been talking about age being a factor in this race. of course, so much of it about president biden's age. former president trump's age, some congressional leaders' age. this is how he framed it today to iowa voters. >> you'll get eight years out of me where i'm in the prime. i'm rocking and rolling and we're going to get the job done and you're going to see that in the campaign. i think you've already seen it. i'm the one for 56 counties. i'll do more counties today than some of these other guys will do next month. >> reporter: so he turned 45 years old this week. he's the second youngest candidate in the race. former south carolina governor nikki haley making a similar argument and appeal. she's calling for term limits as well as competency tests for any candidate over the age of 75. and of course, that would include donald trump and president joe biden. that's one of the sub texts here. i can tell you, if you're a trump loyalist, that largely fall on deaf ears. they like him. i can also say many republicans, much more than in years past, are ready to look for someone fresh and new. we'll see if anyone closes it tonight when the candidates take the stage at this faith and freedom dinner. a large gathering of evangelical voters here in des moines. >> absolutely. a alala large part of the base . let's discuss with larry, the editor of the crystal ball. great to see you as always. thanks for being here. let's get back to the escalating tensions between former president trump and the special counsel jack smith. smith is going as far as to ask the judge to gag trump and keep him from talking about certain things about this case. trump went after jack smith last night despite all of that and accused him of infringing on his rights. let's listen to this. >> he's a deranged individual. he wants to take away my first amendment rights. they went to court to get an order. now, you ever to understand, i'm the leading candidate by 50 points and i'm leading biden by a lot. they want to see if they can silence me. >> you know, larry, trump calling the special counsel in this case deranged, despite being told by the judge earlier on in these proceedings that he should avoid that kind of rhetoric. what do you think is going on here? do you think trump really just wants to push this back and forthwith the judge, with the special counsel, because it might be a delay mechanism at the end of the day for him? >> it could be a delay mechanism. the other thing is, this revs up his base. the more it looks like the establishment is coming down hard on him, the more likely it is that the sizable majority of republican primary voters will stick with him. and perhaps will feel their support to even intensify. that's what we've seen every time trump has been attacked in this process. or indictments. good luck to jack smith. he's going to need it. he might win the legal case after a long period of back and forth. but actually getting trump tad it will be a real struggle. he recently posted i think on truth social, if you come after me, i'm going to come after you. trump is not italian, but it almost sounded that way. and i can say that as an italian american. >> larry, the prospect of the judge putting some kind of gag order on trump, i mean, what kind of percentage of faith do you have that trump will at all abide by it? it sounds like he is inviting it, he wants to it happen. >> he womuld very much like it o happen. it would intensify support. he wants to have a fight with a straw man. now, jack smith is a very able guy. in a sense, he's no straw man. but for trump he is. because smith is not able to speak out and counter trump in the way that trump is able to do as a presidential candidate, and with the support of millions, if not tens of millions. so trump has a tremendous advantage, at least on the public stage. now, once it gets into court, trump may have to answer for all this. but for the time being, it's helpful to him. >> getting back to what is happening in florida, with this scrapped loyalty oath, siding over their own governor, ron desantis, who just won in a land slide 10 or 11 months ago. what does that say about what's taking place in florida and overall inside the republican party? it sounds like much of the republican party is bending to the will of donald trump at every turn. >> politicians and state party people politicians are very good at putting their finger up and finding out which way the wind is blowing. it's pretty obvious that the ron desantis who won re-election in a land slide is not the ron desantis who is running for president today. he's lost 20, 25 points in the republican polls. so even in his home state, they can figure out at least right now, it makes more sense to go with trump than desantis. it's an embarrassment for desantis and another feather in the cap of trump even in florida. >> let's talk about this impeachment process now getting underway this past week. the house speaker, mccarthy mccarthy, caved to the far right. they announced the impeachment inquiry into president biden. even if biden is not impeached, could this effort along with the indictment of his son be damaging in the long run in terms of winning a second term in office? the flip side of this, and i asked alice stewart about this in the previous hour, i'm old enough to remember, and i know you are, too, that's not a shot ought. we're just old enough to remember, a house republican impeachment of bill clinton really helping bill clinton in the 1990s. >> absolutely. clinton was helped. trump with his base was helped certainly by the first impeachment. neither of his impeachments, of course, went further in the senate. he was not convicted. and that's been pretty much the standard for impeachments. why it even applied to president andrew jackson in 1868. you can get impeached. it's much tougher to get the extraordinary majority needed in the senate to actually convict. in the meantime, you back sympathetic figure because you've been impeached. it may have just happened in texas with the republican attorney general there who was impeached by a republican house of representatives in texas, but managed to refute all of the counts, over ten counts. and that effort failed. this is the norm. it will continue as long as we have extreme polarization. you're not going to get many people from the other party to ever vote to convict you once you've been impeached. that applies to democrats and republicans alike. >> and there are so many questions, and this has been a part of the public discussion in recent weeks, about the president's age. but do i want to ask you about this. we've noted, others have noted from time to time, donald trump is not that far behind joe biden. he's only a few years younger. last night we heard trump in the speech in washington kind of make a couple of misstatements here and there and it sounded as though he was having trouble getting the words out. let's listen to what he had to say. >> we have a man who is totally corrupt and the worst president in the history of our country, who is cognitively impaired, in no condition to lead, and is now in charge of dealing with russia and possible nuclear war. we would be in world war ii. >> so he's talking about an impaired biden but he's warning about the prospects of world war ii which i believe has already happened. >> yeah. it was a terrible war and we wouldn't want to restart it. but yeah, imagine what would have happened if joe biden had said these things. you know, everybody would be demanding a competency test, which trump has said he's willing to take again, having aced it a few years back. i would love to actually see that exam. i would love to write one for him. this has gotten ridiculous. if they're nominated, if biden and trump are nominated, biden will be 80, 81, and going on 82 when he's nominated. and trump will be, he's 77 now. he'll be 78 if he's nominated. they're not that far apart. and you can say lots of bad things about getting old. you can also say that you gain experience and judgment. i don't know that that applies to everybody we're talking about. but you do gain some judgment and you gain experience. so this is a silly debate and it is actually going to matter less in the end than it seems to be mattering in the beginning. >> yeah. >> certainly a lot of conversations about it right now. they are so close in age. three years apart when you're in your late 70s. coming up, a battle is brewing in a major swing state, wisconsin, we're talking about, as the republican-controlled senate acts. how could it affect voters in the outcome of next year's election? it could be on the line depending on what happens in wisconsin. wisconsin's attorney general joins me next. plus, we'll take you to the picket line where automakers are on strike. and ufos. the former commander of the international space station will join me live to talk about this. is the truth out there? we're going to go back and search for answers. that's coming up. and glides o on without irritation. so you can glide through your entire day with confidence. ♪ feel the dove men glide. it immediately feels like somebody's poking directly on the nerve. i recommend sensodyne. sensodyne toothpaste goes inside the too and cas the nerve down. and my patents say: “you know doc, it really works." at typical insurance, you're just another senior. that's the third health insurance commercial with seniors at a farmers market. right? don't get me wrong i love a fresh heirloom, but it's like those companies think we're all the same. that's why i chose humana. before i signed up, i spoke to someone who actually listened to what i needed. she told me about benefits that were right for me, like vision and dental... all in my budget. i finally feel in control. what are you doing? 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(mumbles) just sold the car to carvana. what? all i had to do was answer a couple questions and got a real offer in seconds. then, they just picked up the car and paid me right on the spot. sell your car at carvana dot com today. sweep stake politics if wisconsin were already combustible but this week, they voted to fire the administrator. megan wolf has been the target of criticism from trump supporters who voted pandemic voting policies. now there is a legal battle over who will see wisconsin's voting in 2024. the attorney general of the state of wisconsin, josh hall, joins us now with more. mr. attorney general, great to have you back. we'll point out that you are a democrat. you filed a lawsuit could keep wolf on the job and say the actions of the senate were not legitimate. i want to make sure we have this clear to our viewers. this elections official at issue, is she a nonpartisan election official? or is she a democrat election official? our understanding -- >> she's nonpartisan. >> she's nonpartisan. so why was she tossed out? >> we have a bipartisan commission made up of democrats and republicans. they select an administrator. she was selected several years ago and was confirmed unanimously by our state senate. >> after the vote, she told reporters she's not going to bend to any political pressure to stay on the job. the senate majority leader insists in interim elections, an administrator must be appointed. how does this get worked out? what is your sense of it? >> well, part of what makes this so bizarre is that there was not an appointment before the senate. they went ahead and voted any away the. there was a vote taken by our election commission but there weren't the votes needed to effectuate an appointment. when that happens under wisconsin law, the person who previously held the office is able to continue on in that role. the vote was about whether to have a new appointment of this administrator. we, i sent the letter to the legislature's counsel making clear that there was no appointment before them. the senate's own counsel then issued a memo saying there was no appointment. and despite that, the senate has gone forward. and the concern is that this is going to create unnecessary confusion in a state that is at the center of so much national attention during major elections as we head into the year of a major election. we filed suit the same day this happened to make sure it is clear to everybody involved that she remains the administrator of our election commission and hopefully to get clarity as soon as possible. >> what do you think? is there time to get megan wolf back in her position? >> yeah, she is remaining on the job. it is our position that she hasn't been removed and that this vote is legally meaningless. we also want to get a court judgment to make it clear west don't want to leave any confusion about where things stand. we will keep working to get a judgment as soon as possible. it is critical that our election officials around the state have clarity about who is the administrator of our election commission. what the republicans have done is unnecessarily create confusion. what is disturbing is the attacks on the election commission and our administrator stem from the kind of election denialism we've been seeing from around the country in the last several years. they were really baseless attacks. they've gone out of their way to ignore the law so they could take a vote to demonstrate that they were in line with the election deniers. i'm hoping to get a clear court ruling and the commission can get back to doing its work. >> that iraises the point i was asking about. what it sounds like is fueling this is misinformation about how the election was conducted in wisconsin. joe biden won the state of wisconsin. and there are just some trump supporters not willing to accept that. >> that's right. after the 2020 election where we had multiple lawsuits and a very thorough review, the state assembly in wisconsin had an investigation conducted by a former state supreme court justice. that was really an embarrassing episode, and ultimately, that investigation fell apart. and then that same investigator among others was in front of the committee in the senate that was hearing this so-called appointment, talking about the things that he was alleging before. so this is really part and parcel of this, these attacks without any basis to honor the administration of our elections. we have to make clear to people that we have free, fair, and safe and secure elections in our state of wisconsin and around the country. >> what does this mean for wisconsin? obviously, you will be, you're saying it will be a battle ground state one more time in 2024. we're seeing election officials being targeted in other states like michigan, arizona, georgia. what are you seeing in wisconsin? as the attorney general of your state, what are you doing to make sure that election officials can do their job without fear of threats coming from supporters of political candidates? >> well, first and foremost, we have to resolve the new issue which was totally unnecessary. the reason we went to court quickly. we don't want there to be any uncertainty around clerks or other elected officials about whether the acts of our election commission are about. they are because this vote is meaningless. getting the court order that confirms that, i think, will be helpful. this is as you indicated, part of a broader attack on election officials around the country. we have got to be clear that any illegal activity that targets our election officials is going to be met with serious consequences. talks are on our democracy itself. we cannot stand for that fair and free elections are critical to our system and having nonpartisan or neutral administrators of our elections is a critical part of that. so we are going to keep ensuring that we are standing up for the fair administration of elections, and i encourage my republican counter parts to join us in that. for our democracy to thrive, we need to have folks committed to protecting it. >> all right. the attorney general of wisconsin, thank you very much for your time. we appreciate it. all right. still ahead, ford and general motors are striking back at the uaw strike with hundreds of temporary layoffs. we'll take you to the picket line next. rength and energy. woo hoo! ensure, complete balanceded nutrition with 27 vitamins and minerals. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪ my husband and i have never been more active. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. shingles doesn't care but, shingrix protects. shingrix is now zero dollars for almost everyone. ask your doctor about shingrix today. ♪ ♪ wake up, gotta go! c'mon, c'mon. -gracie, c'mon. let's go! guys, c'mon! mom, c'mon! mia! 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starting a private equity fund that specializes in midcap. you do you. switch to xfinity mobile today. two days after it started, there are some signs of progress in the autoworkers strike. the big three car makers are back at the bargaining table and the union said it had reasonably productive talks with the ford motor company earlier today. the strike is already costing some workers dearly. what's the latest, gabe? >> reporter: well, jim, look. this afternoon we're getting the first small sign of really any progress in the conversations, these negotiations between the union and any of the big three automakers. this after they met with ford this morning. a source telling cnn, quote, we had reasonably productive conversations with ford today. reasonably productive, certainly, far from a deal but it is a big step in the right direction, given the hostile back and forth we've seen between the sides over the past couple days. ford saying in a statement, as we've said all along, ford has bet on the uaw more than any other company. we are committed to reaching an agreement with uaw that rewards our workers and allows ford to invest in the future. we have to win together. we know that the union was set to meet with stellantis and general motors today. no word on those negotiations. yesterday we heard from the head of the union who said that 80% of the members' demands, 80% had not been met by a single offer from any of the big three automakers. until those deals are reached, these picket lines 24/7 will continue to happen outside this factory in toledo. this stellantis jeep factory, these workers are making $500 a week of strike pay. you were telling me, you've been working here 30 years, is that correct? >> yes. >> talk to me about this news today. i know it is ford. you work for stellantis. the first signs of some progress, does it make you hopeful? >> it makes us hopeful that ford and gm might settle something. but stellantis is a defensive company. they're foreign-owned and they look at us differently than ford and gm looks at their employees. that's what my personal opinion is. >> do you think you'll be the last ones out here? >> i think we'll be the last ones out here. stellantis won't move on anything. >> what to you is at the core of why your team needs to be out here? >> they won't give as you nice wage for the next four years or whatever they're negotiating. and the last contract, we went 12 years without an increase in wage. and we finally got that. and they just won't move on wages. and they won't give anything to retirees which is another thing. and the part-timers, they won't do anything with them. they won't roll them over to part-time. it's ridiculous. the two tier wages is ridiculous. a person should have to work next to you making less money doing the same job, you know what i mean? and they will raise that up. when i got hired in '93, november '93, it took me three years to get to the top wage. now it takes them eight years to get to the top wage. that's ridiculous. it shouldn't be that way. before that in 'people in, it was 18 months. there's no reason they should wait that long to pay these people what they deserve. >> thank you for your time. we really appreciate it. and the head of the union, the auto workers union has said it is possible that more factories will strike in the days and weeks ahead, depending on the progress of these negotiations. we're starting to already see the ripple effect with ford and general motors announcing that at least 2,600 workers, uaw members, will be laid off in the days ahead because their facilities can't operate as long as these three are on strike. what we don't know, jil, is how quickly this could grind the auto industry, the manufacturing industry to a halt in the u.s. we're starting to see that in some areas. >> all right. far-reaching implications. we'll be following it. a quick note, on monday governor gavin newsom sits down on a potential biden rematch 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dermatologists use at home. the united nations says the catastrophic flooding in libya has killed at least 11,300 people in the eastern city of derna. that's more than 98% of total fatalities across that country from last weekend's disaster. at least 10,000 people remain missing and rescuers are still searching for survivors. the u.n. also warns there's a risk that those displaced could be exposed to leftover land mines with years of conflict in the region. >> reporter: to explain to you where we are right now, we are in the derna valley area. this is where you had the floodwaters just coming through this entire area here right in front of us. that's where the dams were before they ruptured. then you have the water coming through here, pretty much destroying everything in its way, including a bridge that was here. you might not be able to see it with the traffic that's blocking the roads. it has become a maiming artery where much of the infrastructure has been destroyed and roads have been blocked. but that's where a bridge stood connecting the city. now that's gone. and it might be difficult for us to move the camera because it is very challenging in the city right now. over my right shoulder, that was a neighborhood. an entire neighborhood that no longer exists right now. this entire neighborhood was washed into the sea. while we're standing here, we've seen people walking past survivors, carrying whatever they've been able to salvage of their belongings. grown men and women who are walking past and sobbing. this is absolutely shocking and heart-breaking to see. >> reporter: it was a storm like no other libyans had ever seen before. but it's not only mother name's wrath that's to blame for these apocalyptic scenes in derna. right up there is where the dams were. when they burst, it unleashed all the water. the floods that swept entire neighborhoods like this into the sea. and you can see the force of the water when you look at buildings like this. you can see how high the waves were. waves as high as seven meters. it destroyed almost everything in its path and washed it into the sea. the mediterranean turned into a graveyard for the people of derna. how many lives lost, no one knows, but it's in the thousands. the once crystal clear blue waters now murky and brown tell the story of a city that once was, of those gone, young and old. children, pregnant women, elderly. this man with nothing but a rope tied around his waste, he pulled 40 bodies out. there are other bodies. we don't know how to get them out. we just don't have any equipment, he says. derna is gone. you won't see it again. they've gotten some help since. international support has been slowly coming in but nowhere near enough to deal with the disaster on this scale. it's mostly libyans here, volunteers from every corner of this bitterly divided country. foes who fought each other for years united in grief, doing what they can to mend the wounds of this broken city. most are here to try to give the dead a dignified end. it's not the time to lay blame, many say, but the dams had not been maintained for decades, had they been, derna and its people may still be standing. nearly a week on, emotions here still so raw. tied up and the family climbed up on top of the water tanks. they all survived but most of his neighbors did not. there are 12 to 15 homes on our street. we lost 33 people, he tells us. he then starts to name the dead. entire families gone. it's all just too much. libyans know loss and death all too well but nothing could have prepared them for this. a short time ago we were at the water front which has become the main staging area for delivering the bodies that are being brought for burial. we were speaking to a number of volunteers who say they are still getting a lot of bodies, 22 today, while we were there. we saw several bodies being delivered yesterday. 90 bodies. people are so emotional. they say right now, these bodies have become unrecognize a. you can just imagine what this means for the thousands of people who are still searching for the more than 10,000 loved ones who have gone missing. >> all right. just devastating. our thanks to her for that report. we'll be r right back. ♪ this just in ♪ ♪ got the k keys to what you want and what you need ♪ ♪ something new something sweet ♪ ♪ moving to a dififferent bea♪ ♪ okay now (what?) ♪ ♪ can i get a (get a) drumroll? 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it just goes to show you, it is apocalyptic. >> absolutely. it is like a scene out of a world war i or world war ii movie. you look at this and you see so many different aspects when it come to the fighting. it is close quarters. you don't know what is behind the next corner and you are really staring death in the face every time you move out. that's one of the key thing you have to remember about what the soldiers are going through. they're looking at what could potentially be the last move they make. they're doing it in order to get more territory and to protect their country. >> absolutely. this comes as south korea says russia has already started using some of these weapons that they were going to get from north korea and ukraine. what do you think of that? is that even possible? does that sound right? what's going on? >> it's technically possible. russia and north korea do you have a very short land border between them. it's about 12 miles long. they have the crossing right through there and the north koreans have the capability to send weapons from themselves to the russians. >> and it maybe already has. >> oh, yeah. it has. the volume of weapons may not be as great as what the north koreans or the russians would like, at least at present. we're talking about a tenuous land bridge between those two countries. begin that they have this visit with kim jong-un and putin in eastern russia over the last few days, it shows you, jim, that there are a lot of connections of what we'll call the rogue states here. that's what they're trying to do. to create a block of nations that is really working with each other in order to protect their interests. aid, sanctions, all the things you want to do to survive in a world that is set up very differently from the government. >> i can't imagine the russians using north korean weapons will somehow turn the tide in all this. biden is set to meet with zelenskyy this coming week in the u.s. what do you think about that? what do you see as the next big ask coming from ukraine when it come to weapons and what they need? what we can provide to ukrainians is a whole lot better than what the north koreans are offering the russians. >> absolutely. what the next big ask will be the army tactical missile system. if this is provided to the ukrainians, it gives them a bigger distance that they can attack targets in. it opens the potential of the ukrainians opening targets in crimea itself. they're doing with it the home-grown weapons. the u.s. has been reluctant to provide it in the past because it didn't want to provoke the russians. but the time for that has passed. the concerns have receded into the background as we're trying to consolidate ukraine's gains at this point. >> we'll be watching. that will be a big visit next week. we'll talk about it. up next, the truth is out there. or is it? nasa will try to find out. why the agency appointed its first t person. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 1grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now ailable in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv i'm javi, i'm 31, and i'm a fitness instructor. i saw myself in a photograph. and we were all smiling, and i looked closer, and i was like that- that's what everybody sees? i'm back, and i got botox® cosmetic. the lines were so prominent it's all i saw in the photograph, so now when i take photos, and i see myself in photos, its- it's me, i just have fewer lines. botox® cosmetic is fda-approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet, and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history. muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins. as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ wherever you go. wherever you stay. all you need is one key. earn and use rewards across expedia, hotels.com, and vrbo. all right, this week we learned nasa's going to help in the hunt for ufo's the space agency announced it's appointed its first chief of ufo studies. it said this approach to this new endeavor will be based on hard science not science fiction. questions now for a retired astronaut who once served as commander onboard the international space station. commander, great to see you as always. i just always assumed nasa was looking for this kind of stuff before. maybe they had been, but disappointment is kind of a big deal, i suppose. it's going to direct some energy in this direction of looking for this sort of stuff. >> well, that's right. nasa never formally had a role in looking for extraterrestrial life except for exploration in general, and so now have this role -- or they had this role i guess in their first report in actually doing more of an organized formal study of the phenomenon. but they're not the only agency or the only entity looking into this, but with their expertise and, you know, outreach hopefully they can contribute something. >> and nasa says it wants to eliminate the stigma around the reporting of sightings by the public especially private, commercial, military pilots. let's listen to what the administrator of nasa, bill nelson, had to say during the announcement. >> there's a lot of -- of folklore out there. that's why we entered the stage, the arena to try to get into this from a science point. >> i think you can blame the x-files for a lot of this as well. >> that possibly, too. but just remember what i said, we, nasa, are trying to shift it from sensationallism to science. >> commander, i don't know if he's referring to there was some -- some pictures and what not produced down in mexico i think you might recall in the last week. i don't know about you but when i saw that that sounded more science fiction than science fact. that's how it looked to me. i don't know what those things were they were showing the public down there, but i guess that's something the administrator wants to get away from and that nasa wants to take this seriously. do you take it seriously? >> well, sure. there are unexplained aerial phenomenon formerly known as ufos. i myself during a space mission have seen unexplained things that were later explained as human activity or some kind of natural phenomena. so i think it's important to go ahead and understand from a scientific standpoint what some of these things may be. for example, in the report nasa just issued they did take one of the things that had been widely publicized about a forward looking infrared image, video from a fighter jet and it showed an object appearing it be moving at fantastic speeds and changing directions. and what nasa was able to figure out was that image was actually the camera slewing around and other artifacts of the instrument. >> that is some famous video, and i think we've shown it early on in this program. you're talking about what looks like a scope from a fighter jet, that kind of thing, and you see sort of a bright object in the middle or i guess in this case it's sort of a dark object with some light around it. and you're saying in some of these cases it could be just the camera moving around and causing these sorts of visual anomalies. >> right. it's basically kind of an illusion. it's a few different factors coming together to make things look like something that they're not, so i think that's what a lot of these things are. you know, the things i saw in space were explained as kind of, you know, this kind of thing where different factors coming together made it look like something it wasn't. and in other cases it's been, you know, probably top secret, military programs that one hand doesn't necessarily know what the other's doing. >> yeah. yeah, because i mean -- here's my thing, commander. i feel like in this day and age with closed-circuit television, cellphone cameras, you name it there's a camera everywhere, you mind think if this were going on and this kind of stuff were out there, we would have video of it. there would be something a little better than just blobs on the screen. but i digress. maybe i'm just a skeptic, but perhaps i'm jinxing things. this week we also learned of a new study that claims the abandoned pallo lunar lander is causing tremors on the moon. more science fiction here? what's going on? >> right. that actually shouldn't be surprise because temperature extremes because you don't have an atmosphere and you just have the sun's radiation shining on a structure one side can get very hot, the other side in the shade can get very cold. because of that differential heating structures will creek. if there's no atmosphere there, it doesn't make a sound, but the structure still vibrates. and so that actually what has been detected by seismic detecters. it's nothing new. these observations were made, but kind of a modern way of looking at the data, reanalyzing the data show that these sensors put down on the apollo 17 mission actually could detect these vibrations, so pretty amaze. >> fascinating stuff. all right, commander, thank you so much for joining us. we'll get you back and talk about this stuff in the future. we'll see if we find those little green guys in the long run. thanks very much for joining us this evening. the truth is out and we'll find it. i'm jim acosta. we'll join you tomorrow starting tomorrow at 5:00

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