honest with how the trump administration can reconcile that claim with images like this and sounds like these. >> those are children crying waiting for the parents they have been taken from. the audio obtained by pro publica. this is not separation anxiety, this is separation. real trauma. we will be joined by a pediatrician that wrote several letters calling for this to stop. in part, because it could lead to this. it was, as we reported and as members of the administration openly stated when they were selling this policy, a deliberate choice. now when faced with the consequences and the bipartisan up roar against it, the response has been to deny responsibility and shift the blame. >> and i say it very strongly, the democrat's fault. they are obstructionist and they are obstructing. we are stuck with these horrible laws. what is happening is so sad. it is so sad and it can be taken care of quickly, beautifully and we'll have safety. this could really be something very special. it could be something maybe even for the world to watch. >> something very special. well the world is watching and they are reacting. former first lady laura bush says i live in a border state. i appreciate the need to enforce and protect our international boundaries, but this zero poll tolerance policy is cruel. it is immoral and breaks my heart. former first lady michelle obama weighing in as well and citing sometimes truth trance sends party. democratic and republican lawmakers have weighed in. including ted cruz. late today. >> all of us who are seeing these images of children being pulled away from moms and dad in tears, are horrified. this has to stop. kids need their moms and dads. >> the president says he hates this. yet he and his top officials refuse to take responsibility for the policy decision that they in fact made happen. the dhs secretary would not even concede the existence of a policy. >> this administration did not create a policy of separating families at the border. >> keeping them honest, now the administration did not create a policy to specifically tear children from their parents. they were okay with that. listen to chief of staff john kelly when asked about it in march of last year. >> if you get some young kids who manage to sneak into the united states with their parents, are department of homeland security personnel going to separate the children from their moms and dads. >> we have tremendous experience with dealing with unaccompanied minors. i am considering an audit of deter more movement along this dangerous network. i am considering exactly that. >> so in order to deter people from bringing their kids. so what the administration decided was to try each and every unauthorized border crosser in criminal court under existing law which hasn't been done before and because parents charged with crimes can't be detained along with their kids, families have to be split up. this was in part to send a message. to act as a deterrent. when asked today, secretary nielson seemed to be or acted offended. >> are you intended for this to play out how it is played out. are you intending to send a message? >> i find it offensive. >> so what was a talking point in march is offensive to ask about it. it is democrats that are refusing to change a law that says nothing mandating to break up a family. >> quote the administration's decision to separate family is a new discretionary choice. anyone saying their hands are tied or that the only conceivable to fix the problem of catch and release to rip families is wrong. >> how is this not child abuse? >> be more specific. >> the images that we are talking about and the sounds that we are seeing this. how is this not specifically child abuse for these innocent children who are indeed being separated from their parents. are there any examples of child abuse. for the people who are taken from their parents, not the ones who are sent here with the parent's blessing. >> i am not in any position to deal with hear say stories. >> hear say stories. >> more now from a white house under fire, jeff zeleny who just asked that last question joins us. you tried to press secretary nielson. what else did she say about it? >> reporter: that is about all she said about it right there. she said i can't react to hear say stories. if any specific examples come into it we will look into it. the idea that the secretary would not acknowledge today is the idea of the images and the sounds that has transfixed country on this. when i was asking a simple question of child abuse, she said she simply couldn't answer that and changed the subject that there are, all the children brought over here smuggled with the blessing of their parents. she said she has visited the detention centers and treated well. on the specific examples that we have see, she simply did not have an answer. and there was a sense as she stood in the briefing rooming, that all of these answers came without much humanity or emotion. you heard senator ted cruz. he was saying it is heart wrenching to see these images. that is one thing we did not hear from the white house. never mind the policy from the images and the shear fact that this is heart wrenching. she came out here and toed the line. the white house briefing was supposed to be at 1:15 and ended up happening at 5:15. secretary nielson is running the front of the house. taking the lead. sarah sanders did not want to address these questions by herself. they wanted someone with moregraphitas. finally, the white house was ready to have this briefing. but it was an example of the fact that this communications system here was in break down. the white house was a lot of anger in this building. hearing republicans, democrats, evangelicals. the former first lady, laura bush who never weighs in on this. they left it to secretary nielson at the end of the day but she didn't clear up all the questions. republicans have questions of their own. >> there is no cnn polling on the policy showing wide spread disapproval. 58 of republicans say they prove. spoke about this earlier with congressman will hurd. why does this administration refuse to take responsibility for what is an arguably their policy based from the zero tolerance policy. >> it is a question to me as well. and something that if there is homeland hearing, i am looking forward to asking that question because it is very clear that it is within department of justice. it is within dhs's ability to not separate kids from their parents. and so acting as if this is something that congress is preventing from happening is just incorrect and it is something that this administration could change right away. >> sect nair nielson said congress alone could fix that. you said the president could change their policy. this is by their discretion they are doing this >> they could be focusing more attention on working with el salvador and nicaragua and h honduras and addressing some of the problems that is behind this migration. i think part of that is because of the violence that is happening in central america, we see an increase in that. i think it is compatible. they need to be talking about why when they made this decision of zero tolerance, what did they think was going to happen? we haven't seen a decrease in illegal immigration coming into our country. there is a whole lot of questions. i also don't know if doj, dhs, and hhs are talking to each other. i experienced that over the weekend when i went to see a facility in my district. >> well, what do you say to secretary nielson or the president who says look, this is a deterrence. this is going to deter people. and in effect while it is terrible to see, long-term, this is actually going to be better for kids because it is going to essentially prevent parents from making that trip. >> taking a four year-old out of his or her mommy's arms is not going to prevent terrorist or drugs coming in. it is not stopping illegal immigration. what we need to be doing is focus on root causes and increase the am of immigration judges. we need to make sure we have separate border policies and we need to make sure that we are doing this in a bipartisan way. that is the only way we solve this problem and we also need to remember, and i have said this a bunch of times, in the land of the free and the home of the brave, we do not use kids as a deterrence. >> according to cnn's latest poll, 58% republicans support this policy. what does that say to you about where your party is right now, you are republican. but your district, you have more border than anybody else. >> what i am seeing on the ground is exact opposite. i am seeing people that are appalled by. th this. i can't speak to national polling. but in the 23rd congressional district in texas, people think this shouldn't be happening. >> the president of childhood pediatrics call this child abuse. >> long-term effects on their development and their growth. and that is something that we should not be doing. >> where do you think this ends? is there a scenario where the president picks up the phone and ends this policy? or will it come down to congress to try to fix this? >> i hope the president comes to a realization that this is something that should end. i am glad there are voices out there like laura bush and antho anthony scaramucci talking about how this policy should change. let's not use children as a deterrent and let's not separate kids from their mother and father. >> i appreciate your time, thank you. >> thank you. >> lot more to come on this including talking to a pediatrician on the kind of trauma that kids on the border are experiencing when separated by their parents. we will have more on how that recording was taken. and later the russia story these two failed to tell congress about an encounter during the campaign. what they are saying now when we continue. and non-24 can throw my days and nights out of sync, keeping me from the things i love to do. talk to your doctor, and call 844-214-2424. just another day on the farm. or is it? 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>> absolutely. what we know is that highly stressful experiences like separation of children from their parents could cause irreparable harm. in the short-term we could see changes in body functions, eating, toileting. we might see aggression, anxiety and changes in their memory or their ability to learn and to develop. in the long-term, we know that highly stressful experiences place children at risk for things like diabetes and heart disease and depression. >> it could have that kind of a long-term impact? >> absolutely. when you think of what kind of stress children are faced with being in centers like detention centers and processing centers which i have seen with my own eyes, that in itself is traumatizing and when you take away protective support, you place that child in a most stressful experience, and you take away the ability to buffer the support with the love, comfort and protection of a parent. >> earlier tonight, secretary neilsen was asked if this amounted to child abuse, here is what she said. >> we give them education, medical care, videos, tvs, i have visited the detention centers myself. >> what goes through your mind when you hear that? >> as a pediatrician, i know that taking a child away from his or her loving parent threatens the health and we well-being of that child. you can play a video in front of a child who is profoundly traumatized, and all they want is mommy, they are not going to watch the video. when you take a child and put them if a situation where they are faced with cage-like fencing, faced in situations where they are so frightened, all they want is that love and protection of the parent. >> the president of your organization stated when she visited these places the workers could not console them which is a rule, to not be able to console a suffering child who has been away from their parent, that just seems kind of stunning. >> i agree. it is profoundily stunning and e are traumatizing these children in two ways, through the trauma of detention, and then the worst trauma imaginable which is taking that child away from a parent. to not allow that child to have the comfort and the protection of anyone is child abuse. >> dr. linton, i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you, anderson. >> we heard from the white house, politicians and experts, we are going to take you to the southern borders and conversations with those families on the ground still desperate to come to the united states never mind the dangers. n, the kids get the unlimited they need. go mix and match! 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(vo) one family can now get different unlimited plans, starting at $40 per line on the network you deserve. issue of children being separated came to one thing, politics. >> immigration is the fault and all of the problems we are having. we cannot get them to sign legislation, or even to negotiating table and i say it is very strongly, the democrat's fault. they are obstruction. really obstructionist. and they are obstructing. the united states will not be a migrant camp, and it will not be a refugee holding facility. >> for those families on the ground, united states politics is the last thing on their mind. ga gary tuchman. >> reporter: the people on this line have passports, documentation, they can go in and out at-will. but the people here are migrants. they traveled hundreds of miles, with their children and hoping to get an interview inside. hoping that their children aren't taken away. in the border town of nogales, mexico, the other side of this gate is the united states. and right next to the gate sitting on the ground are migrant families. amalia is from guatemala. her son kevin is search and uber is three. >> she says i want to go and protect my children and have a better life for them. amalia says she fears for her life in guatemala because of gang violence. these migrant families wait and hope for what is known as a credible fear interview. only one person has been called in for an interview all day. she is from southern mexico and has three children with her. she says i am scared. my kids are all i have in my life. half of the mothers heard about the children separated from their parents. each mother they talked with said they heard nothing about it weeks ago when they left their towns. the 23-year-old says i am scared. i am hearing rumors they could take my child away. amalia says there have been people telling me they are going to take our kids away but i am not sure. so why are these women willing to take such a risk? amalia says because if i go back, they are going to kill me. so this is the better option. the u.s. government claims children will not be taken away from parents who turn themselves in in. the recent decision -- and gang violence victims. i ask the u.s. custom and border protection officer on the other side of the gate this question. >> when do you enter the migrants in for the interview. >> we need to make sure that we have enough assets to do it. my supervisors are working on it. you can ask my supervisor. >> and we did. they said they are not able to comment out of the office. they say they don't want to lose their place in line so they are not losing. she says she will not let anyone take her toddler away. if she gets sent back to guatemala, i will come back. i want to be in the united states. i will come back again. >> so they are trying to cross at a point of entry where they can apply for asylum. a lot of people who are caught illegally are crossing or not crossing at a port of entry when they apply. what happens when they apply? >> reporter: the problem is applying in the first place. we heard the hhs secretary say go to a legal port of entry. and yet today not one person has been called inside for an interview. the three women you saw in our story is still here. and yesterday one person went in. so they are doing it by the book but no one is being called in for the interview. so whatever reason this is the first step, they are not interviewing people. >> thank you, gary. the trump administration continues to insist that congress could fix all of this overnight. solutions will be difficult, not impossible to find. coppertone sport. proven to protect street skaters and freestylers. stops up to 97% uv. lasts through heat. through sweat. coppertone. proven to protect. what has he been telling people in his inner circle. >> what the president has been saying is that he is -- he thinks that he has been weak on immigration in recent months. problematic. and sorry for the fire truck. he says he demanded the border wall, the issue of child separation merely came up and some of his advisers predicted that over the weekend he may change course. so far that has not occurred. and one thing that we found today is that a number of his aides have showed him more positive videos. not relating images that you have seen on tv and one reason why they have been able to convince him that some of the coverage is unfair. >> so is it clear to you the extent to which the president is being swayed by the other images. i know you are reporting he has been shown some other ones. >> right. and that is going to, where we are right now, but the dichotomy is inside the white house you have number, john kelly who say this is a deterrent. stephen miller has argued more for forcefully. we have to see what will happen is whether a sustained coverage continues and the president hears from more republican allies. you notice over the weekend, evangelicals that have normally with him have broke on this. susan collins said it was amazing that neilsen says it is on congress. so whether that completely deteriorates on the issue will be key on whether the white house moves at all. >> thanks very much. with us now is bakari sellers and jason miller. jason you heard secretary neilsen. >> i mean, president trump ran on these tough border policies during his campaign and they have known ever since he won the election that this day was coming. >> right, but they only recently put in the zero tolerance policy and you heard from the former secretary of homeland secretary who is now the chief of staff saying yeah, he was thinking of doing it as a deterrence. so for the administration saying it is not done as a deterrence, that is how they were selling it recently. >> as a trump supporter, i am ticked off yet again, he has been let down here. congress should have fixed the loopholes. dhs dropped the ball with administration of this. they should have been ready for this surge that was coming. they knew at certain point the media and other people would be coming through and make sure all of these location where is up to snuff. and as a trump supporter, i see congress dropping the ball and i don't think dhs has done everything they needed to. and now we are at this critical mass here. >> bakari, jason is saying the policy itself is the right policy. >> no it is not. i don't know how anybody who is a father, or who anybody believes what the statue of liberty reads, believes this is a right policy. they came out and lied and said this is the law. what law are you talking about, no one can point to it. this is policy. policy implemented by one person and it can be changed with one phone call. we are praying that donald trump gets positive images of children, we are talking about kids. we are talking about human beings, playing in cages smiling so he may one day reverse course. that is what we are talking about here. it is a travesty, this is not who america is. this is exactly who donald trump is. and i am disappointed that we weren't able to connect the dots. he talks about people being aliens, and talks about people being animals and treats them as such. he is treating the least of these, the kids like pure trash and that's not who america is. >> i've got to take a break and jason we will have you response and continue this discussion and also reaction from, play the reaction from senator john mccain. we will read you that ahead. your body was made for don't start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. tell your doctor if you were in a region where fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. xeljanz xr can reduce the symptoms of ra, even without methotrexate. ask your rheumatologist about xeljanz xr. more breaking news, senator john mccain is weighing in approximate on policy. contrary to principals and values upon which our nation is founded, the administration can rescind this policy, and it should do so now. jason miller, your take on that. again, you point to congress and you say it is a failure to dhs to have their ducks in a row before they started this policy. do you agree this is a policy that the administration itself could reverse. the president could decide to do what prior administrations did which he says is kicking the can down the road but to not have the zero tolerance. >> my understanding is it needs a congressional fix. i think ted cruz has something that gets a lot of the ways there right now. addresses this and keeps families together that goes through the process. and i think through some of this, we are losing sight of the bigger picture here. that we are a country of laws. unfortunately we can't allow just everybody in the entire world to come in whenever they want. we have to go and have to enforce some of these laws. now if we built the wall or start building the wall, that will help. but with the ted cruz legislation, what they will do is keep families together. we just can't have an open border, others -- this is a real crisis down at the border. you look at the impact of not just the families that come across, the coy i donyottes, th a real crisis at our southern border. >> we are talking about 2,000 children in detention, and cage linked cages. yes, there are gang issues, but there are 2,000 kids and those are reali are real. >> this could be dealt with quickly. the president wants a humane. this isn't as difficult as, you know, some of the other challenges we face. we can work together and get this done this week. there is no excuse. >> bakari, what the administration says is that people should come in at legal entries and apply for asylum. hardly anyone is allowed to apply for political asylum. >> donald trump has closed the door. you can look cutting off victims and women who are victims of domestic abuse and rape and violent crimes are actually gaining asylum here in the united states of america. so you have a very hard line approach. but i think jason and many people in the trump administration are conflating the issue. we have a larger immigration discussion that needs to be had, but right now donald trump is causing a humanitarian crisis. falling back on this line that we are a nation of laws, yeah, true, but we're also a nation of immigrants. i think this administration fails to realize that and forgets it conveniently often. we had a problem that donald trump can fix tonight. donald trump can pick up the phone, resend this policy, speak to his secretary at hhs and -- or excuse me, homeland security, and make sure that these children are not taken away, ripped away from their family. and look, we're supposed to be the beacon of light for the rest of the world to follow, and we have kids in the united states of america eating off the floor in cages, and we have trump and trump surrogates that want to excuse it. it's mind-boggling this is where we've come. >> mark, what the supporters of his policy will say is, look, you can't let everyone who wants in the united states in the united states, and if you allow these families with their children to come in, it's going to encourage more people to make a dangerous journey and this is, in fact, a deterrent which long term may be better for kids because it prevents people from trying to make that dangerous journey. >> i hate to integrate facts in that discussion, because yes, that is an argument people make, but this policy doesn't even work. while we're destroying our global image while we're actually ruining young people's lives, chaildren's lives, puttig them in harm's way, we have a policy that doesn't even work. it's proven to be flawed. >> you think there was no crisis until now? you think the ms-13 and the drug traffickers and the human traffickers, you think none of that was happening until now? >> with all due respect, mason, these kids are not ms-13. these kids are not animals. these kids are children, jason. so when you're talking about this issue, we have an ms-13 gang problem in the united states of america. that's one issue. but don't try to put the audience in a pretzel conflating the fact that we have kids there, and the president of the united states, your former boss, calls this a humanitarian crisis and he can fix it. >> i get that you don't like the zero tolerance policy, we can't have a 100% tolerance policy. that's why they're losing on this. chris cuomo comes up in a few minutes on "cuomo prime time." hi, chris. >> it's clear the president doesn't want to, he favors this. the polls suggest he's right. he's got republicans moving his way on this issue. the problem is they have every two or three other people in the country against him. tonight he has his great defender coming on the show, "prime time." kellyanne conway will be here to make the case. we also have what the democrats will do, and we're going to have a debate of our own tonight. two on one. both chairs will be filled with people who say this is the right policy. coming up, roger stone missed a meeting that he did not admit to when asked under oath about meeting with russians. we'll a explaexplain ahead. when we were dating, we used to get excited about things like concert tickets or a new snowboard. matt: whoo! whoo! jen: but that all changed when we bought a house. matt: voilà! jen: matt started turning into his dad. matt: mm. that's some good mulch. ♪ i'm awake. but it was pretty nifty when jen showed me how easy it was to protect our home and auto with progressive. 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