immunity any longer. here's a hypothetical. if more had gotten on board at the outset when vaccines first became available and all got vaxed, or a much higher percentage got vaxed than actually did, would we be in a much different place today? >> no doubt about it. no doubt about it. we would have prevented the almost 200,000 americans who died in the delta wave. and what we also would have done is gone into this omicron wave with much, much higher levels of population immunity, lower levels of infection, lower levels of hospitalizations and deaths. it's still the ticket out of this pandemic. it's just frustrating that a year after these vaccines became authorized there's still so many americans who are choosing not to take it. >> well, dr. jha, one of the reasons i ask you -- final question and this time i mean it -- is because mayor de blasio is in the on deck circle. and he's about to impose an employer man tait and has taken other measures and given incentives and so on and so on.