then, so it's conceivable what he's saying is please don't stop looking, keep looking until you can find under any rock that there's fraud or ballots that, you know, trump ballots that weren't counted or biden ballots that aren't valid. but he never said, mr. raffensperger, i want you and ryan and the other people in your office to sit down and create ballots and stuff the ballot box here in early january. or i want you to go back to the, you know, rooms where they're tabulating votes and start ripping them up. just to say i want you to find them sounds like a sloppy and, you know, maybe a trumpian way of trying to achieve an end, but it doesn't strike me that you're going to convince people who aren't inclined to find him guilty of anything to convict him. >> jeff, do you agree with that? just with the phone call, it's not enough? >> i don't think the phone call is enough. but the phone call is plenty.