but the situation _ for 15 years, excuses for 15 years, but the situation right _ for15 years, excuses for 15 years, but the situation right now- for 15 years, excuses for 15 years, but the situation right now is - but the situation right now is untenable _ but the situation right now is untenable. doctors - but the situation right now is untenable. doctors are - but the situation right now is . untenable. doctors are running £13t’rs— untenable. doctors are running £1565 per— untenable. doctors are running £13.65 per hour, _ untenable. doctors are running £13.65 per hour, they- untenable. doctors are running £13.65 per hour, they are - untenable. doctors are running l £13.65 per hour, they are leaving £i3.65 per hour, they are leaving wates— £i3.65 per hour, they are leaving wales irr— £13.65 per hour, they are leaving wales in droves, _ £13.65 per hour, they are leaving wales in droves, some _ £13.65 per hour, they are leaving wales in droves, some are - £13.65 per hour, they are leaving i wales in droves, some are choosing not to— wales in droves, some are choosing not to start — wales in droves, some are choosing not to start their careers here - not to start their careers here because — not to start their careers here because of— not to start their careers here because of the _ not to start their careers here because of the greatest. - not to start their careers here because of the greatest. jeremy miles. we clapped _ because of the greatest. jeremy miles. we clapped doctors - because of the greatest. jeremy miles. we clapped doctors and i because of the greatest. jeremy . miles. we clapped doctors and nhs heroes during _ miles. we clapped doctors and nhs heroes during the _ miles. we clapped doctors and nhs heroes during the pandemic, - miles. we clapped doctors and nhs heroes during the pandemic, and i miles. we clapped doctors and nhs| heroes during the pandemic, and we now need to work with doctors in relation to what they are asking of us, and it is perfectly reasonable for people to want to be fairly paid for people to want to be fairly paid for what they do. there are real limitations to the budget we have is a government, but i think it is important to be in that dialogue, and i know that when we had strikes in schools last year, from my experience as education minister you have to go in being straightforward about the situation but also to listen, and that listening is how you find a solution. we managed to resolve strikes in wales after two days rather than seven days lost in england, but your broader point about the nhs absolutely, the nhs requires more funding. all of our public services in wales and across the uk need more funding, but we also need to support the nhs to adapt to the pressures it is facing today and in the future, so one of my pledges is to establish a new orthopaedic centres, one of the longest waiting lists we have, people are waiting in pain for too long, and we can do some thing about it. �* ., _ , long, and we can do some thing about it. �* ., , , long, and we can do some thing about it. but on pay, 5% is on the table. would you — it. but on pay, 5% is on the table. would you put _ it. but on pay, 5% is on the table. would you put that _ it. but on pay, 5% is on the table. would you put that up? _ it. but on pay, 5% is on the table. would you put that up? the - it. but on pay, 5% is on the table. | would you put that up? the reality is we have very — would you put that up? the reality is we have very real— would you put that up? the reality is we have very real constraint - would you put that up? the reality is we have very real constraint on | is we have very real constraint on the budget, and i didn't negotiate live on tv with teachers and you wouldn't expect us to do that with doctors, but the important thing is to go into those discussions with a clear sense of what is achievable, to be honest and open with you about that but to listen and try and find that but to listen and try and find that resolution. fik. that but to listen and try and find that resolution.— that resolution. 0k. vaughan gethina , that resolution. 0k. vaughan gething, would _ that resolution. 0k. vaughan gething, would you _ that resolution. 0k. vaughan gething, would you give - that resolution. 0k. vaughan l gething, would you give more? that resolution. 0k. vaughan . gething, would you give more? i think the starting point is that we recognise — think the starting point is that we recognise that staff across our health — recognise that staff across our health sector do deserve more. there has been _ health sector do deserve more. there has been 14— health sector do deserve more. there has been 14 years of real terms pay cuts, _ has been 14 years of real terms pay cuts, and _ has been 14 years of real terms pay cuts, and i— has been 14 years of real terms pay cuts, and i understand why he and his colleagues are in a position where — his colleagues are in a position where they feel the elastic snapped. we had _ where they feel the elastic snapped. we had this last year with nurses, therapists — we had this last year with nurses, therapists and others as well. sol don't _ therapists and others as well. sol don't think— therapists and others as well. sol don't think the position we are in now is— don't think the position we are in now is where i am comfortable, and where _ now is where i am comfortable, and where i_ now is where i am comfortable, and where i want — now is where i am comfortable, and where i want to be in the future. the challenge is what will happen. so i the challenge is what will happen. so i know — the challenge is what will happen. so i know you have been talking, i know— so i know you have been talking, i know i_ so i know you have been talking, i know i was— so i know you have been talking, i know i was part of the committee talking _ know i was part of the committee talking with health service leaders andindeed talking with health service leaders and indeed the minister ellen ed morgan, — and indeed the minister ellen ed morgan, but it is about how we practically— morgan, but it is about how we practically get there. before either one of— practically get there. before either one of us— practically get there. before either one of us becomes first minister, there witi— one of us becomes first minister, there will be a uk government budget, — there will be a uk government budget, so we will have a better idea in— budget, so we will have a better idea in early march about whether there _ idea in early march about whether there are — idea in early march about whether there are more resources. we also need _ there are more resources. we also need to— there are more resources. we also need to see — there are more resources. we also need to see what happens in the other— need to see what happens in the other strike budgets, because i want to be in— other strike budgets, because i want to be in a _ other strike budgets, because i want to be in a position to talk about the whole — to be in a position to talk about the whole service. but to be in a position to talk about the whole service.— to be in a position to talk about the whole service. but if you look at what happened _ the whole service. but if you look at what happened in _ the whole service. but if you look at what happened in january, - the whole service. but if you look. at what happened in january, more at what happened injanuary, more than 22,000 outpatient appointments were suppose, 1500 operations were postponed. can you afford to not do a deal? scotland is offering more, england is offering more. why can't wales offer more? that england is offering more. why can't wales offer more?— england is offering more. why can't wales offer more? that comes to the bud . et. i wales offer more? that comes to the budget. i understand _ wales offer more? that comes to the budget. i understand why _ wales offer more? that comes to the budget. i understand why you - wales offer more? that comes to the budget. i understand why you want i budget. i understand why you want it, and i understand the reality of what your pay is. you are not misleading people, your pay really is that much per hour. what we need to be able to do a set up, if we're going to find more money in the current budget, that either means deeper meriting other nhs services, and that not a choice i think people would be comfortable with. but the town there is a new first minister, there will be a different conversation for us to have. but it will be one that is honest and respectful, and understanding that just staying where we are probably doesn't get to where we want to be, certainly not something that me all that health minister, that is not what we want, we will sit down with you and sort this out. and what we want, we will sit down with you and sort this out.— you and sort this out. and keir starmer. _ you and sort this out. and keir starmer. if _ you and sort this out. and keir starmer, if he _ you and sort this out. and keir starmer, if he wins _ you and sort this out. and keir starmer, if he wins the - you and sort this out. and keir| starmer, if he wins the general election, he will open those taps, won't he? it election, he will open those taps, won't he? , ., ., ., , ~ won't he? it is not going to be like that, but what _ won't he? it is not going to be like that, but what we _ won't he? it is not going to be like that, but what we have _ won't he? it is not going to be like that, but what we have seen - won't he? it is not going to be like | that, but what we have seen under the current uk tory government is pay settlements being made without that consequential coming to wales, so i would certainly be making the case to an incoming labour government that ought to happen again. but government that ought to happen aaain. �* , government that ought to happen aaain. �* ., , again. but pay will go up if keir starmer wins? _ again. but pay will go up if keir starmer wins? keir _ again. but pay will go up if keir starmer wins? keir starmer - again. but pay will go up if keir| starmer wins? keir starmer has again. but pay will go up if keir - starmer wins? keir starmer has been clear that the — starmer wins? keir starmer has been clear that the first _ starmer wins? keir starmer has been clear that the first day _ starmer wins? keir starmer has been clear that the first day of _ starmer wins? keir starmer has been clear that the first day of a _ starmer wins? keir starmer has been clear that the first day of a labour - clear that the first day of a labour government in westminster inherits the last day of a conservative disaster on the economy, so that is the reality. but i'm absolutely confident that having two labour governments, one in cardiff bay and one in westminster, means we have the best possible background and context to have the kind of discussions we need to be having here. ~ . . discussions we need to be having here. . ., ., ., , here. we have a gentleman with his hand u- in here. we have a gentleman with his hand no in the _ here. we have a gentleman with his hand up in the front _ here. we have a gentleman with his hand up in the front row. _ here. we have a gentleman with his hand up in the front row. the - hand up in the front row. the comparison _ hand up in the front row. the comparison with _ hand up in the front row. the comparison with england is slightly misleading — comparison with england is slightly misleading in— comparison with england is slightly misteading in a— comparison with england is slightly misleading in a sense _ comparison with england is slightly misleading in a sense that- comparison with england is slightly misleading in a sense that last - comparison with england is slightly| misleading in a sense that last year wales— misleading in a sense that last year wates actuatty _ misleading in a sense that last year wales actually gave _ misleading in a sense that last year wales actually gave junior- misleading in a sense that last year wales actually gave junior doctors i misleading in a sense that last yearj wales actually gave junior doctors a higher— wales actually gave junior doctors a higher rise — wales actually gave junior doctors a higher rise than _ wales actually gave junior doctors a higher rise than england _ wales actually gave junior doctors a higher rise than england did, - wales actually gave junior doctors a higher rise than england did, so - higher rise than england did, so over— higher rise than england did, so over the — higher rise than england did, so over the last _ higher rise than england did, so over the last two _ higher rise than england did, so over the last two years, - higher rise than england did, so over the last two years, if- higher rise than england did, so over the last two years, if you i higher rise than england did, so i over the last two years, if you take the 5% _ over the last two years, if you take the 5% rise — over the last two years, if you take the 5% rise now, _ over the last two years, if you take the 5% rise now, wales— over the last two years, if you take the 5% rise now, wales are - over the last two years, if you take| the 5% rise now, wales are actually ahead _ the 5% rise now, wales are actually ahead of— the 5% rise now, wales are actually ahead of england _ the 5% rise now, wales are actually ahead of england in _ the 5% rise now, wales are actually ahead of england in that— the 5% rise now, wales are actually ahead of england in that sense. - ahead of england in that sense. also, _ ahead of england in that sense. also, at— ahead of england in that sense. also, at the _ ahead of england in that sense. also, at the end _ ahead of england in that sense. also, at the end of— ahead of england in that sense. also, at the end of the - ahead of england in that sense. also, at the end of the day, - ahead of england in that sense. also, at the end of the day, i. ahead of england in that sense. i also, at the end of the day, i know everybody — also, at the end of the day, i know everybody keeps _ also, at the end of the day, i know everybody keeps coming _ also, at the end of the day, i know everybody keeps coming back- also, at the end of the day, i know everybody keeps coming back to l also, at the end of the day, i know| everybody keeps coming back to it, that is— everybody keeps coming back to it, that is where — everybody keeps coming back to it, that is where our— everybody keeps coming back to it, that is where our budget _ everybody keeps coming back to it, that is where our budget comes - everybody keeps coming back to it, i that is where our budget comes from. the block— that is where our budget comes from. the block grant — that is where our budget comes from. the block grant coming _ that is where our budget comes from. the block grant coming from - the block grant coming from westminster— the block grant coming from westminster will— the block grant coming from westminster will not - the block grant coming from | westminster will not support the block grant coming from - westminster will not support more than 5% _ westminster will not support more than 5% at — westminster will not support more than 5% at the _ westminster will not support more than 5% at the moment, _ westminster will not support more than 5% at the moment, and - westminster will not support more than 5% at the moment, and the i than 5% at the moment, and the consequential— than 5% at the moment, and the consequential is— than 5% at the moment, and the consequential is really, - than 5% at the moment, and the consequential is really, really. consequential is really, really important _ consequential is really, really important so— consequential is really, really important-— consequential is really, really imortant. , ., ., important. so it is down to the uk government- _ important. so it is down to the uk government. anybody _ important. so it is down to the uk government. anybody else? - important. so it is down to the uk government. anybody else? yes, | important. so it is down to the uk - government. anybody else? yes, the lady in the back. government. anybody else? yes, the lady in the back-— lady in the back. thank you. i am a gp in newtown. _ lady in the back. thank you. i am a gp in newtown. will— lady in the back. thank you. i am a gp in newtown. will the _ lady in the back. thank you. i am a gp in newtown. will the new- lady in the back. thank you. i am a gp in newtown. will the new firstl gp in newtown. will the new first minister— gp in newtown. will the new first minister listen to the public and protect— minister listen to the public and protect their access to gp medical services _ protect their access to gp medical services in — protect their access to gp medical services in their communities? by investing — services in their communities? by investing in — services in their communities? by investing in them? i services in their communities? by investing in them?— services in their communities? by investing in them? i think we need to focus on — investing in them? i think we need to focus on primary _ investing in them? i think we need to focus on primary care, - investing in them? i think we need to focus on primary care, the - to focus on primary care, the preventative part of the health service. people go to their gp and get the support they need that prevents health issues from getting worse, and so i want to make sure that the nhs is working more closely with local authorities and others who understand the communities and the effect of deprivation, housing problems, lack of access to services. those of the things that cause health inequalities, and i have committed is first minister to tackle that and set a government wide priority, and gps and primary care is at the absolute heart of that. �* care is at the absolute heart of that. . ., care is at the absolute heart of that. �* ., , care is at the absolute heart of that. . ., , ., ., that. and on the gp point, vaughan gethin: ? that. and on the gp point, vaughan gething? we _ that. and on the gp point, vaughan gething? we need _ that. and on the gp point, vaughan gething? we need to _ that. and on the gp point, vaughan gething? we need to do _ that. and on the gp point, vaughan gething? we need to do more - that. and on the gp point, vaughan gething? we need to do more to i gething? we need to do more to recruit and _ gething? we need to do more to recruit and train _ gething? we need to do more to recruit and train more _ gething? we need to do more to recruit and train more gps. - gething? we need to do more to recruit and train more gps. it - gething? we need to do more to | recruit and train more gps. it still comes— recruit and train more gps. it still comes back— recruit and train more gps. it still comes back to resources but it is also _ comes back to resources but it is also the — comes back to resources but it is also the job— comes back to resources but it is also the job you do, what access means— also the job you do, what access means for— also the job you do, what access means for gps and if you're patients as welt, _ means for gps and if you're patients as welt, and — means for gps and if you're patients as well, and i know that you and your— as well, and i know that you and your staff — as well, and i know that you and your staff often don't enjoy the start _ your staff often don't enjoy the start of— your staff often don't enjoy the start of the day when there will be lots of _ start of the day when there will be lots of demand coming in on calls. it is lots of demand coming in on calls. it is how— lots of demand coming in on calls. it is how we — lots of demand coming in on calls. it is how we are able to work together— it is how we are able to work together to do more in that space, together to do more in that space, to recruit _ together to do more in that space, to recruit more people across the whole _ to recruit more people across the whole team, and the leadership that gps provide for a team of lots of different— gps provide for a team of lots of different people, whether it is nurses, — different people, whether it is nurses, pharmacists, therapists as well, _ nurses, pharmacists, therapists as welt, and — nurses, pharmacists, therapists as well, and actually in the past, we are in— well, and actually in the past, we are in a _ well, and actually in the past, we are in a really poor position on gp training _ are in a really poor position on gp training places. we have now done more _ training places. we have now done more to— training places. we have now done more to not— training places. we have now done more to notjust training places. we have now done more to not just expand the training places. we have now done more to notjust expand the training places— more to notjust expand the training places but— more to notjust expand the training places but to fill them. we have got to do— places but to fill them. we have got to do better and get into different contexts — to do better and get into different contexts. other people might want to be a gp_ contexts. other people might want to be a gp in— contexts. other people might want to be a gp in cardiff, for example. we have _ be a gp in cardiff, for example. we have different offers but it is about — have different offers but it is about working with you, it is a human— about working with you, it is a human story of you and your staff and if _ human story of you and your staff and if your— human story of you and your staff and if your patients. but human story of you and your staff and if your patients.— and if your patients. but vaughan gethin: , and if your patients. but vaughan gething, you _ and if your patients. but vaughan gething, you have _ and if your patients. but vaughan gething, you have been - and if your patients. but vaughan gething, you have been health i gething, you have been health minister. labour have been in charge of the nhs in wales for a quarter of a century and still talking about all health boards needing extra intervention by the welsh government. we are talking about waiting list going up, not down. it is a mess, isn't it? taste waiting list going up, not down. it is a mess, isn't it?— waiting list going up, not down. it is a mess, isn't it? we have a real challenae is a mess, isn't it? we have a real challenge right — is a mess, isn't it? we have a real challenge right across _ is a mess, isn't it? we have a real challenge right across our- is a mess, isn't it? we have a real challenge right across our whole l challenge right across our whole system — challenge right across our whole system. before the pandemic we were making _ system. before the pandemic we were making some progress. there were still very— making some progress. there were still very real pressure. since the pandemic, — still very real pressure. since the pandemic, we have struggled with the hu-e pandemic, we have struggled with the huge demand that has come in. but one thing _ huge demand that has come in. but one thing i— huge demand that has come in. but one thing ijust want to say to a gp directly— one thing ijust want to say to a gp directly as— one thing ijust want to say to a gp directly as i— one thing ijust want to say to a gp directly as i recognise during the pandemic— directly as i recognise during the pandemic that things didn't stop. gps were — pandemic that things didn't stop. gps were extraordinarily busy working — gps were extraordinarily busy working on a different way, and i think— working on a different way, and i think some — working on a different way, and i think some people haven't appreciated how hard you and your colleagues worked through that extraordinary time as well as what we need _ extraordinary time as well as what we need to— extraordinary time as well as what we need to do now. the challenge again— we need to do now. the challenge again comes back to resources, it has resolve — again comes back to resources, it has resolve the disputes we had, to recruit— has resolve the disputes we had, to recruit more — has resolve the disputes we had, to recruit more staff into the service, that is— recruit more staff into the service, that is why — recruit more staff into the service, that is why am so proud of what we did when— that is why am so proud of what we did when i— that is why am so proud of what we did when i was health and to start off a north — did when i was health and to start off a north wales medical school to try to _ off a north wales medical school to try to recruit and keep more gps here _ try to recruit and keep more gps here in— try to recruit and keep more gps here in wales. there is room for optimism — here in wales. there is room for optimism in— here in wales. there is room for optimism in the longer term future, but we _ optimism in the longer term future, but we have — optimism in the longer term future, but we have got to get there, and that is— but we have got to get there, and that is the — but we have got to get there, and that is the big challenge i think we face, _ that is the big challenge i think we face, and — that is the big challenge i think we face, and i— that is the big challenge i think we face, and i do think electing a uk labour— face, and i do think electing a uk labour government will change the weather— labour government will change the weather on that, because we need to see investment right across all four countries _ see investment right across all four countries in — see investment right across all four countries in the uk, and i think here _ countries in the uk, and i think here in— countries in the uk, and i think here in wales will be able to make a -ood here in wales will be able to make a good job— here in wales will be able to make a good job of— here in wales will be able to make a good job of making the unique case for primary— good job of making the unique case for primary care here in wales. 30 for primary care here in wales. so ou for primary care here in wales. you can for primary care here in wales. fir you can commit, for primary care here in wales. 5r you can commit, you know, do you, that keir starmer, if he wins, and your manifesto more or less depends on it, both of you, more money will come to the health service in wales? if you look at what is being said already. — if you look at what is being said already, the ability sit down with a range _ already, the ability sit down with a range of— already, the ability sit down with a range of staff groups, that isn't 'ust range of staff groups, that isn't just about — range of staff groups, that isn't just about reform, it is about the resources — just about reform, it is about the resources we have got as well, because — resources we have got as well, because the funding pressures are real in— because the funding pressures are real in every part of the nhs in the uk. real in every part of the nhs in the uk i'm_ real in every part of the nhs in the uk. i'm interested in the resources we can— uk. i'm interested in the resources we can get, — uk. i'm interested in the resources we can get, making sure there is a fairfunding— we can get, making sure there is a fair funding settlement for all of us, and — fair funding settlement for all of us, and i— fair funding settlement for all of us, and i do think that will change how our— us, and i do think that will change how our staff feel, how our staff want _ how our staff feel, how our staff want to — how our staff feel, how our staff want to come into the service to work, _ want to come into the service to work, because i know that you do, but also _ work, because i know that you do, but also what it then means for our public— but also what it then means for our public who— but also what it then means for our public who of course are reliant on the service — public who of course are reliant on the service we provide and are proud to start _ the service we provide and are proud to start here — the service we provide and are proud to start here in wales as well. let's — to start here in wales as well. let's go — to start here in wales as well. let's go to— to start here in wales as well. let's go to the audience as well. the lady in the back there. i let's go to the audience as well. the lady in the back there. i work as an nhs _ the lady in the back there. i work as an nhs health _ the lady in the back there. i work as an nhs health care _ the lady in the back there. i work as an nhs health care support . as an nhs health care support worker. — as an nhs health care support worker. and _ as an nhs health care support worker. and i_ as an nhs health care support worker, and i have _ as an nhs health care support worker, and i have lost - as an nhs health care support worker, and i have lost countl as an nhs health care support. worker, and i have lost count of as an nhs health care support- worker, and i have lost count of the amount— worker, and i have lost count of the amount of— worker, and i have lost count of the amount of times _ worker, and i have lost count of the amount of times that _ worker, and i have lost count of the amount of times that even - worker, and i have lost count of the amount of times that even myself. worker, and i have lost count of thel amount of times that even myself or one of— amount of times that even myself or one of my— amount of times that even myself or one of my colleagues _ amount of times that even myself or one of my colleagues has _ amount of times that even myself or one of my colleagues has gone - amount of times that even myself or| one of my colleagues has gone home in tears _ one of my colleagues has gone home in tears because _ one of my colleagues has gone home in tears because of— one of my colleagues has gone home in tears because of the _ one of my colleagues has gone home in tears because of the pressures - one of my colleagues has gone home in tears because of the pressures onl in tears because of the pressures on us, in tears because of the pressures on us. that— in tears because of the pressures on us. that we — in tears because of the pressures on us. that we are _ in tears because of the pressures on us, that we are short—staffed, - us, that we are short—staffed, chronically— us, that we are short—staffed, chronically short—staffed. - us, that we are short—staffed, chronically short—staffed. and j us, that we are short—staffed, . chronically short—staffed. and to us, that we are short—staffed, - chronically short—staffed. and to be honest. _ chronically short—staffed. and to be honest. how— chronically short—staffed. and to be honest, how will— chronically short—staffed. and to be honest, how will you _ chronically short—staffed. and to be honest, how will you is _ chronically short—staffed. and to be honest, how will you is first- honest, how will you is first minister. _ honest, how will you is first minister, and _ honest, how will you is first minister, and vaughan- honest, how will you is first minister, and vaughan you i honest, how will you is first- minister, and vaughan you have mentioned — minister, and vaughan you have mentioned the _ minister, and vaughan you have mentioned the discrepancies - minister, and vaughan you have - mentioned the discrepancies between wales— mentioned the discrepancies between wales and _ mentioned the discrepancies between wales and england, _ mentioned the discrepancies between wales and england, but _ mentioned the discrepancies between wales and england, but isn't - mentioned the discrepancies between wales and england, but isn't it- mentioned the discrepancies between wales and england, but isn't it fair. wales and england, but isn't it fair to mention — wales and england, but isn't it fair to mention that _ wales and england, but isn't it fair to mention that in _ wales and england, but isn't it fair to mention that in england - wales and england, but isn't it fair to mention that in england there i wales and england, but isn't it fair. to mention that in england there are one in— to mention that in england there are one in ten— to mention that in england there are one in ten people _ to mention that in england there are one in ten people on _ to mention that in england there are one in ten people on a _ to mention that in england there are one in ten people on a waiting - to mention that in england there are one in ten people on a waiting list, i one in ten people on a waiting list, in wales— one in ten people on a waiting list, in wales it — one in ten people on a waiting list, in wales it is — one in ten people on a waiting list, in wales it is one _ one in ten people on a waiting list, in wales it is one in— one in ten people on a waiting list, in wales it is one in four, - one in ten people on a waiting list, in wales it is one in four, and - one in ten people on a waiting list, in wales it is one in four, and you. in wales it is one in four, and you mentioned — in wales it is one in four, and you mentioned about _ in wales it is one in four, and you mentioned about orthopaedic- in wales it is one in four, and you - mentioned about orthopaedic centres, iwork— mentioned about orthopaedic centres, i work on _ mentioned about orthopaedic centres, i work on a _ mentioned about orthopaedic centres, i work on a trauma _ mentioned about orthopaedic centres, i work on a trauma and _ mentioned about orthopaedic centres, i work on a trauma and orthopaedic i i work on a trauma and orthopaedic ward. _ i work on a trauma and orthopaedic ward. and — i work on a trauma and orthopaedic ward. and one— i work on a trauma and orthopaedic ward, and one of— i work on a trauma and orthopaedic ward, and one of my— i work on a trauma and orthopaedic ward, and one of my closest - i work on a trauma and orthopaedicj ward, and one of my closest friends is currently — ward, and one of my closest friends is currently waiting _ ward, and one of my closest friends is currently waiting for— ward, and one of my closest friends is currently waiting for a _ ward, and one of my closest friends is currently waiting for a hip - is currently waiting for a hip replacement— is currently waiting for a hip replacement and _ is currently waiting for a hip replacement and she - is currently waiting for a hip replacement and she has i is currently waiting for a hip i replacement and she has been is currently waiting for a hip - replacement and she has been told to wait at _ replacement and she has been told to wait at least _ replacement and she has been told to wait at least two _ replacement and she has been told to wait at least two years. _ replacement and she has been told to wait at least two years. how - replacement and she has been told to wait at least two years. how will i wait at least two years. how will you is _ wait at least two years. how will you is first— wait at least two years. how will you is first minister— wait at least two years. how will you is first minister prioritise i you is first minister prioritise these — you is first minister prioritise these issues _ you is first minister prioritise these issues in _ you is first minister prioritise these issues in the _ you is first minister prioritise these issues in the nhs i you is first minister prioritise i these issues in the nhs rather you is first minister prioritise - these issues in the nhs rather than projects— these issues in the nhs rather than projects such — these issues in the nhs rather than projects such as _ these issues in the nhs rather than projects such as extra _ these issues in the nhs rather than projects such as extra senedd i projects such as extra senedd members _ projects such as extra senedd members which _ projects such as extra senedd members which honestly i projects such as extra seneddl members which honestly none projects such as extra senedd i members which honestly none of projects such as extra senedd - members which honestly none of us feel that _ members which honestly none of us feel that we — members which honestly none of us feel that we need. _ feel that we need. applause - i agree with you that you should not be going home at the end of the day in tears, and you there are systems in tears, and you there are systems in the nhs to support you and they are the most supportive possible and make your job are the most supportive possible and make yourjob the most impactful it it can possibly be. so i think it is about resources, but it is also about resources, but it is also about how we can listen to the voice of those working in the nhs, and in my experience you can talk to anybody working in the nhs for five minutes and they will tell you three, four, five things that if they were changed would make their work easier. and i think we need a fresh pair of eyes on these things. so looking beyond the nhs in wales to other sectors in wales and beyond, and learning from that kind of innovation, that change. and there is loads of good change happening in the nhs day in, day out. what we need to do is make sure that we identify it and share it across the system much more quickly, so my proposal about the orthopaedic centres is exactly that. it is that reform and innovation within the public nhs, and we can do it. we have started along that path, and it is a really good start. but there is a much more ambitious vision for this, and i don't think we have reached the limits of our ambition. vaughan gething, you mentioned the pandemic, the covid inquiry marker is coming to wales very soon. in hindsight, did you get it right, or what would you have done differently? i what would you have done differently?— what would you have done differentl ? ., ., ., , differently? i will have to answer lots of questions _ differently? i will have to answer lots of questions in _ differently? i will have to answer lots of questions in the - differently? i will have to answer lots of questions in the inquiry, i lots of questions in the inquiry, and it— lots of questions in the inquiry, and it is— lots of questions in the inquiry, and it is important to say at the outset — and it is important to say at the outset that it is important that there — outset that it is important that there is— outset that it is important that there is an inquiry, that i give an account— there is an inquiry, that i give an account of— there is an inquiry, that i give an account of what we did and why at the time. — account of what we did and why at the time, based on the evidence and advised _ the time, based on the evidence and advised we _ the time, based on the evidence and advised we had at the time as well as looking — advised we had at the time as well as looking back to learn lessons. and i_ as looking back to learn lessons. and i said — as looking back to learn lessons. and i said before i think there are things— and i said before i think there are things we — and i said before i think there are things we would have done differently, for example i think if we had _ differently, for example i think if we had our time again, knowing what we had our time again, knowing what we know— we had our time again, knowing what we know now, we would have gone into lockdown— we know now, we would have gone into lockdown earlier in the first wave. ithink— lockdown earlier in the first wave. l think if— lockdown earlier in the first wave. i think if you knew what we know now. _ i think if you knew what we know now. we — i think if you knew what we know now, we would have done different things around maintain a capacity for testing — things around maintain a capacity for testing as well, that we didn't have _ for testing as well, that we didn't have. there were a number of things that we _ have. there were a number of things that we would do differently, but so much _ that we would do differently, but so much of _ that we would do differently, but so much of that is about hindsight. we only got— much of that is about hindsight. we only got through it because of the work— only got through it because of the work that— only got through it because of the work that our staff did in a range of areas — work that our staff did in a range of areas across health and social and others, and because the public did the _ and others, and because the public did the right thing and acted together to keep the country safe. you have — together to keep the country safe. you have already given evidence once. it became quite apparent that there was some criticism that you haven't read all the documents. have you done your homework, and are you confident that you did read everything, and as first minister, they will be a lot more reading. i they will be a lot more reading. i have never ignored a briefing on potential— have never ignored a briefing on potential pandemics or the one that we had _ potential pandemics or the one that we had. and you don't need to take my word _ we had. and you don't need to take my word for— we had. and you don't need to take my word for it, the first minister, mark— my word for it, the first minister, mark drakeford, has very been very clear that _ mark drakeford, has very been very clear that no reefers ever cross my desk— clear that no reefers ever cross my desk as _ clear that no reefers ever cross my desk as minister that needed more investigation. if you like that the work— investigation. if you like that the work i _ investigation. if you like that the work i actually did in creating and leading _ work i actually did in creating and leading the nhs test in tri—service, a lead _ leading the nhs test in tri—service, a lead in _ leading the nhs test in tri—service, a lead in the delivery from the ministerial level of the vaccination programme, the fastest roll—out in europe. _ programme, the fastest roll—out in europe, those were things that not happened — europe, those were things that not happened by accident, they relied on a tip team _ happened by accident, they relied on a tip team of people and the extraordinary work our staff did and i am confident about the role i undertook on helping to lead wales to the _ undertook on helping to lead wales to the pandemic alongside the first minister _ to the pandemic alongside the first minister. �* . to the pandemic alongside the first minister. . ., , ., to the pandemic alongside the first minister. �* . , ., ., to the pandemic alongside the first minister. . ., , ., ., ., minister. and have you got the what -- whatsapps. _ minister. and have you got the what -- whatsapps. did _ minister. and have you got the what -- whatsapps, did you _ minister. and have you got the what -- whatsapps, did you keep - minister. and have you got the what -- whatsapps, did you keep yours? | minister. and have you got the what | -- whatsapps, did you keep yours? i —— whatsapps, did you keep yours? i kept everything to do with the inquiry — kept everything to do with the intui . �* kept everything to do with the intui .�* ,. kept everything to do with the | inquiry._ everything kept everything to do with the l inquiry._ everything i inquiry. and yours? everything i have not inquiry. and yours? everything i have got i _ inquiry. and yours? everything i have got i have _ inquiry. and yours? everything i have got i have provided, i inquiry. and yours? everything i have got i have provided, and i inquiry. and yours? everything i | have got i have provided, and we inquiry. and yours? everything i i have got i have provided, and we are the only part of the uk where as [aw officer i've provided access to legal advice, which no other part of the uk is doing, and so i expect to be challenged on the legal advice. and any regrets on the way you handle education during the pandemic? we all have things to learn, i became education minister in the second half of it so my predecessor dealt with the intense early stages of education in schools but there are things which we could all do better and differently and actually it is really important as part of this process that we are up front about that to the inquiry. fik. this process that we are up front about that to the inquiry. 0k. thank ou ve about that to the inquiry. 0k. thank you very much- _ about that to the inquiry. 0k. thank you very much. let _ about that to the inquiry. 0k. thank you very much. let us _ about that to the inquiry. 0k. thank you very much. let us go _ about that to the inquiry. 0k. thank you very much. let us go to - about that to the inquiry. 0k. thank you very much. let us go to our i you very much. let us go to our second question, which comes from steven senior. as first minister will you be looking _ as first minister will you be looking at— as first minister will you be looking at the _ as first minister will you be looking at the economic i as first minister will you be i looking at the economic impact guestions — looking at the economic impact questions about— looking at the economic impact questions about the _ looking at the economic impact questions about the economic. looking at the economic impact - questions about the economic impact of 20mph~ _ of 20mph. yes. - of 20mph. yes, we i of 20mph.. yes, we are of 20mph. - yes, we are going of mm — yes, we are going to need to think about— yes, we are going to need to think about the — yes, we are going to need to think about the economic impact but the broader— about the economic impact but the broader impact across the country as welt _ broader impact across the country as welt so. _ broader impact across the country as welt so. in — broader impact across the country as well. so, i'm not clear about the reliance — well. so, i'm not clear about the reliance on — well. so, i'm not clear about the reliance on the assessment we are done. _ reliance on the assessment we are done. we — reliance on the assessment we are done, we talk about small amounts of time but _ done, we talk about small amounts of time but i _ done, we talk about small amounts of time but i am interested in what it means— time but i am interested in what it means for— time but i am interested in what it means for different worker, how they -et means for different worker, how they get round _ means for different worker, how they get round that, comes back to the balance _ get round that, comes back to the balance of— get round that, comes back to the balance of what we have done. i have been knocking doors across the country — been knocking doors across the country and every where it has come up country and every where it has come up on _ country and every where it has come up on the _ country and every where it has come up on the doorstep, the majority of people _ up on the doorstep, the majority of people say— up on the doorstep, the majority of people say they support the broad policy. _ people say they support the broad policy, they want to see slower speeds — policy, they want to see slower speeds on _ policy, they want to see slower speeds on streets outside medical settings _ speeds on streets outside medical settings and schools and i do as welt _ settings and schools and i do as welt my— settings and schools and i do as well. my son is at primary school, and i_ well. my son is at primary school, and i want — well. my son is at primary school, and i want to know if he is riding his bike — and i want to know if he is riding his bike he — and i want to know if he is riding his bike he is less likely to get hit, his bike he is less likely to get hit. more _ his bike he is less likely to get hit, more likely to get up if he does — hit, more likely to get up if he does the _ hit, more likely to get up if he does. the big frustrations have been about— does. the big frustrations have been about some — does. the big frustrations have been about some routes where people think that they— about some routes where people think that they don't understand why they are a 20 _ that they don't understand why they are a 20 and not a 30, and in particular— are a 20 and not a 30, and in particular those areas where there are multiple speed changes in a short— are multiple speed changes in a short distance on the road. think we need _ short distance on the road. think we need to— short distance on the road. think we need to acknowledge that in the communication round 20mph, we could have done _ communication round 20mph, we could have done better that is on the government. but also then in the implementation about how it has been done. _ implementation about how it has been done. that— implementation about how it has been done, that is why a review of the guidance — done, that is why a review of the guidance be asking the public what you think— guidance be asking the public what you think about on the streets you live. _ you think about on the streets you live. that — you think about on the streets you live, that you walk, cycle and drive on and _ live, that you walk, cycle and drive on and what — live, that you walk, cycle and drive on and what specific changes you want _ on and what specific changes you want to— on and what specific changes you want to see. it is about listening not lecturing. so want to see. it is about listening rrot lecturing-— want to see. it is about listening not lecturing. so another review. jerem not lecturing. so another review. jeremy miles. — not lecturing. so another review. jeremy miles, another— not lecturing. so another review. jeremy miles, another review. i not lecturing. so another review. . jeremy miles, another review. the short answer _ jeremy miles, another review. the short answer is _ jeremy miles, another review. tue: short answer is yes. jeremy miles, another review. tt;e: short answer is yes. i jeremy miles, another review. tt9: short answer is yes. i have jeremy miles, another review. tt9 short answer is yes. i have put the economy at the heart of my campaign, i think it is essential that we grow the economy sustainably. that will help us solve a number of other challenge we have found difficult, thatis challenge we have found difficult, that is not thele only thing we need to look at, so the economic impact of course, buzz the driver behind the policy is to make our roads safer, and actually there is a lot of consensus about how we go about doing that, in particular stretches of road, but clearly, people don't feel herd in relation to roads which they feel should be 30 or more and have been designated 20. by the way there are people feel their road should have been designated 20 and hasn't. but it is important in the review we have, that we give people an opportunity to feed that back directly and for that to be taken fully into account. we directly and for that to be taken fully into account.— directly and for that to be taken fully into account. we have had the first lot of data _ fully into account. we have had the first lot of data which _ fully into account. we have had the first lot of data which shows - fully into account. we have had the first lot of data which shows that i first lot of data which shows that speeds have dropped 4mph. the minister —— minister said that is expected but given all the agony you have had as a government over this, is it worth it? the have had as a government over this, is it worth it?— is it worth it? the issue is that, but it is the _ is it worth it? the issue is that, but it is the effect _ is it worth it? the issue is that, but it is the effect of _ is it worth it? the issue is that, but it is the effect of that i is it worth it? the issue is that, but it is the effect of that that. is it worth it? the issue is that, | but it is the effect of that that is important. and that is why we need to look about what that means in terms of road safety. it is early to know that, but the indications i think are positive. and know that, but the indications i think are positive. and throughout our think are positive. and throughout your manifesto _ think are positive. and throughout your manifesto you _ think are positive. and throughout your manifesto you say _ think are positive. and throughout your manifesto you say you - think are positive. and throughout your manifesto you say you are i think are positive. and throughout. your manifesto you say you are very good at taking people with you, as government you haven't taken people with you on this have you. that government you haven't taken people with you on this have you.— with you on this have you. that is the oint with you on this have you. that is the point i _ with you on this have you. that is the point i was — with you on this have you. that is the point i was making _ with you on this have you. that is the point i was making to - with you on this have you. that is the point i was making to the i the point i was making to the gentleman there, we need to make sure people feel heard when we are introducing policies. you sure people feel heard when we are introducing policies.— introducing policies. you didn't listen on then _ introducing policies. you didn't listen on then did _ introducing policies. you didn't listen on then did you? - introducing policies. you didn't listen on then did you? i i introducing policies. you didn't listen on then did you? i don't| listen on then did you? i don't thinkin: listen on then did you? i don't thinking that _ listen on then did you? i don't thinking that is _ listen on then did you? i don't thinking that is true _ listen on then did you? i don't thinking that is true but i listen on then did you? i don't i thinking that is true but clearly, the work we did hasn't meant that people have felt entirely heard, so i am committing to setting up a delivery unit in the welsh government and the purpose of that will be to make sure that we have worked through each of the aspects where we are introducing new policy so there will be an opportunity for thoseissues so there will be an opportunity for those issues to be aired sooner. to be clear on 20mph, is there a review under way, you are promising a review, would reversing it be on the table? ~ �* , review, would reversing it be on the table? ~' �*, _ table? think it's the right policy. you would _ table? think it's the right policy. you would stick _ table? think it's the right policy. you would stick with _ table? think it's the right policy. you would stick with it. - table? think it's the right policy. you would stick with it. the - table? think it's the right policy. | you would stick with it. the point of the review that is under way is to give the incoming first minister that information. and briefly would revering it be on the table? we i that information. and briefly would revering it be on the table? no i am not auoin revering it be on the table? no i am not going scrap _ revering it be on the table? no i am not going scrap the _ revering it be on the table? no i am not going scrap the policy. - revering it be on the table? no i am not going scrap the policy. it - revering it be on the table? no i am not going scrap the policy. it is - not going scrap the policy. it is important _ not going scrap the policy. it is important do something about it. i think_ important do something about it. i think there — important do something about it. i think there will be change that comes— think there will be change that comes comes as a result us asking the public— comes comes as a result us asking the public and that is important. some _ the public and that is important. some hands up here, the lady here. | some hands up here, the lady here. i think we need toe consider the intangible _ think we need toe consider the intangible benefit— think we need toe consider the intangible benefit of— think we need toe consider the intangible benefit of the - think we need toe consider the| intangible benefit of the policy. think we need toe consider the l intangible benefit of the policy. i live in_ intangible benefit of the policy. i live in a — intangible benefit of the policy. i live in a small— intangible benefit of the policy. i live in a small village _ intangible benefit of the policy. i live in a small village outside - live in a small village outside bridgehd, _ live in a small village outside bridgend, where _ live in a small village outside bridgend, where one - live in a small village outside bridgend, where one of- live in a small village outside bridgend, where one of the i live in a small village outside . bridgend, where one of the pilot sites _ bridgend, where one of the pilot sites for— bridgend, where one of the pilot sites for the _ bridgend, where one of the pilot sites for the 20mph _ bridgend, where one of the pilot sites for the 20mph was - bridgend, where one of the pilot sites for the 20mph was and - bridgend, where one of the pilot sites for the 20mph was and i i bridgend, where one of the pilot. sites for the 20mph was and i was bridgend, where one of the pilot- sites for the 20mph was and i was on a housing _ sites for the 20mph was and i was on a housing estate _ sites for the 20mph was and i was on a housing estate this— sites for the 20mph was and i was on a housing estate this weekend - sites for the 20mph was and i was on a housing estate this weekend and ii a housing estate this weekend and i saw a _ a housing estate this weekend and i saw a whole — a housing estate this weekend and i saw a whole gang _ a housing estate this weekend and i saw a whole gang of— a housing estate this weekend and i saw a whole gang of young - a housing estate this weekend and i saw a whole gang of young children| saw a whole gang of young children walking _ saw a whole gang of young children walking back— saw a whole gang of young children walking back from _ saw a whole gang of young children walking back from school— saw a whole gang of young children walking back from school on - saw a whole gang of young children walking back from school on their l walking back from school on their own, _ walking back from school on their own. which— walking back from school on their own. which i_ walking back from school on their own, which i think— walking back from school on their own, which i think for— walking back from school on their own, which i think for a _ walking back from school on their own, which i think for a lot- walking back from school on their own, which i think for a lot of- own, which i think for a lot of people — own, which i think for a lot of pe0pte they— own, which i think for a lot of people they wouldn't - own, which i think for a lot of people they wouldn't dream i own, which i think for a lot of. people they wouldn't dream of letting — people they wouldn't dream of letting their— people they wouldn't dream of letting their child _ people they wouldn't dream of letting their child walk- people they wouldn't dream of letting their child walk home l people they wouldn't dream of. letting their child walk home from schoot— letting their child walk home from school on — letting their child walk home from school on their— letting their child walk home from school on their own, _ letting their child walk home from school on their own, we _ letting their child walk home from school on their own, we are - school on their own, we are preparing _ school on their own, we are preparing them _ school on their own, we are preparing them now- school on their own, we are preparing them now for- school on their own, we are preparing them now for a l school on their own, we are. preparing them now for a life school on their own, we are - preparing them now for a life beyond usin- preparing them now for a life beyond using cars. _ preparing them now for a life beyond using cars. they— preparing them now for a life beyond using cars, they are _ preparing them now for a life beyond using cars, they are able _ preparing them now for a life beyond using cars, they are able to- preparing them now for a life beyond using cars, they are able to access i using cars, they are able to access their— using cars, they are able to access their local— using cars, they are able to access their local area, _ using cars, they are able to access their local area, go— using cars, they are able to access their local area, go out— using cars, they are able to access their local area, go out and - using cars, they are able to access their local area, go out and aboutl their local area, go out and about on their— their local area, go out and about on their own _ their local area, go out and about on their own. the _ their local area, go out and about on their own-— their local area, go out and about on their own. the lady there. yes. m son on their own. the lady there. yes. my son was _ on their own. the lady there. yes. my son was involved _ on their own. the lady there. yes. my son was involved in _ on their own. the lady there. yes. my son was involved in a - on their own. the lady there. yes. my son was involved in a minor. my son was involved in a minor collision — my son was involved in a minor collision a _ my son was involved in a minor collision a couple _ my son was involved in a minor collision a couple of _ my son was involved in a minor collision a couple of years - my son was involved in a minor collision a couple of years agol my son was involved in a minor. collision a couple of years ago and had that— collision a couple of years ago and had that car— collision a couple of years ago and had that car not _ collision a couple of years ago and had that car not been— collision a couple of years ago and had that car not been travelling i collision a couple of years ago and had that car not been travelling at�* had that car not been travelling at under— had that car not been travelling at under 20mph. _ had that car not been travelling at under20mph, his— had that car not been travelling at under 20mph, his injuries - had that car not been travelling at under 20mph, his injuries would i had that car not been travelling at - under 20mph, his injuries would have been much _ under 20mph, his injuries would have been much more _ under 20mph, his injuries would have been much more serious _ under 20mph, his injuries would have been much more serious than - under 20mph, his injuries would have been much more serious than a - under 20mph, his injuries would have. been much more serious than a broken le-. been much more serious than a broken leu. been much more serious than a broken le. _ been much more serious than a broken leu. ., , ., leg. right. so quite a bit of sopport. — leg. right. so quite a bit of sopport. the _ leg. right. so quite a bit of support, the gentleman - leg. right. so quite a bit of i support, the gentleman here. leg. right. so quite a bit of - support, the gentleman here. you said ou support, the gentleman here. you said you would _ support, the gentleman here. you said you would review it, what type of changes — said you would review it, what type of changes would _ said you would review it, what type of changes would you _ said you would review it, what type of changes would you look - said you would review it, what type of changes would you look at? - said you would review it, what type of changes would you look at? so i said you would review it, what type of changes would you look at? so the review is a review _ of changes would you look at? so the review is a review on _ of changes would you look at? so the review is a review on the _ of changes would you look at? so the review is a review on the guidance, . review is a review on the guidance, so, that— review is a review on the guidance, so, that guidance, because with the same _ so, that guidance, because with the same guidance now some have different— same guidance now some have different outcome, flint and swansea have different outcomes, so is it part of— have different outcomes, so is it part of the — have different outcomes, so is it part of the problem, i think you have _ part of the problem, i think you have got— part of the problem, i think you have got to be prepared to listen to the public, — have got to be prepared to listen to the public, and it is about this balance, — the public, and it is about this balance, because most people want slower— balance, because most people want slower speeds on the streets where they live, _ slower speeds on the streets where they live, most of the difficulty round — they live, most of the difficulty round this is both about how we have communicated what we wanted to do, but it is— communicated what we wanted to do, but it is in— communicated what we wanted to do, but it is in those areas where people — but it is in those areas where people think this particular part doesn't — people think this particular part doesn't make sense there, is a rational— doesn't make sense there, is a rational conversation to be had where — rational conversation to be had where you _ rational conversation to be had where you can make changes the public— where you can make changes the public will— where you can make changes the public will support and achieve the objective, — public will support and achieve the objective, a slower speed on residential streets it matters to me as a parent — residential streets it matters to me as a parent-— as a parent. back to the actual auestion as a parent. back to the actual question about _ as a parent. back to the actual question about the _ as a parent. back to the actual question about the economy . as a parent. back to the actual i question about the economy and as a parent. back to the actual - question about the economy and as economy minister do you have any concerns it is impacting the welsh economy or not at all? we haven't seen hard — economy or not at all? we haven't seen hard evidence _ economy or not at all? we haven't seen hard evidence to _ economy or not at all? we haven't seen hard evidence to date - economy or not at all? we haven't seen hard evidence to date but - economy or not at all? we haven't i seen hard evidence to date but what we see _ seen hard evidence to date but what we see is _ seen hard evidence to date but what we see is anecdotal where people talk about getting round in different part, delivery workers and some _ different part, delivery workers and some forms of public transport. we need _ some forms of public transport. we need to— some forms of public transport. we need to take account of what is happening at the policy is implemented which is why listening to the _ implemented which is why listening to the public, many of whom are going _ to the public, many of whom are going to — to the public, many of whom are going to work, and to understand what _ going to work, and to understand what you — going to work, and to understand what you this means for them and if there _ what you this means for them and if there are _ what you this means for them and if there are practical changes we could and should _ there are practical changes we could and should make. just _ and should make. just to say as well we published an economic impact assessment and i think that is really important, because that is you know transparent and enables you to challenge us on what we have published ourself. bind what we have published ourself. and lee waters the minister in charge said councils aren't using their discession enough.— said councils aren't using their discession enough. there is a range of approaches _ discession enough. there is a range of approaches which _ discession enough. there is a range of approaches which different - of approaches which different councils — of approaches which different councils have taken— of approaches which different councils have taken some said they will use the — councils have taken some said they will use the exemptions _ councils have taken some said they will use the exemptions sparingly i will use the exemptions sparingly and others have used them widely. that may be because local circumstances are different. you would expect an approach in that city to be different from a rural area, but we need to make sure that the guidance is being applied and that national framework is being applied. that national framework is being a - lied. that national framework is being a- lied. . , that national framework is being a- lied. ., , | that national framework is being applied._ i think i that national framework is being i applied._ i think all applied. the lady there. i think all the arguments — applied. the lady there. i think all the arguments about _ applied. the lady there. i think all the arguments about 20mph - applied. the lady there. i think all. the arguments about 20mph shows applied. the lady there. i think all- the arguments about 20mph shows that the arguments about 20mph shows that the government— the arguments about 20mph shows that the government has— the arguments about 20mph shows that the government has missed _ the arguments about 20mph shows that the government has missed the - the arguments about 20mph shows that the government has missed the mark. the government has missed the mark to a certain _ the government has missed the mark to a certain degree, _ the government has missed the mark to a certain degree, so, _ the government has missed the mark to a certain degree, so, what- the government has missed the mark to a certain degree, so, what do- the government has missed the mark to a certain degree, so, what do you i to a certain degree, so, what do you think— to a certain degree, so, what do you think has— to a certain degree, so, what do you think has gone — to a certain degree, so, what do you think has gone wrong _ to a certain degree, so, what do you think has gone wrong for— to a certain degree, so, what do you think has gone wrong for the - think has gone wrong for the government— think has gone wrong for the government to _ think has gone wrong for the government to implement . think has gone wrong for the government to implement a| think has gone wrong for the - government to implement a policy that doesn't — government to implement a policy that doesn't necessarily _ government to implement a policy that doesn't necessarily see - government to implement a policy that doesn't necessarily see where the people — that doesn't necessarily see where the people of— that doesn't necessarily see where the people of wales _ that doesn't necessarily see where the people of wales want. - that doesn't necessarily see where the people of wales want. what i that doesn't necessarily see where - the people of wales want. what would you do— the people of wales want. what would you do differently— the people of wales want. what would you do differently to _ the people of wales want. what would you do differently to make _ the people of wales want. what would you do differently to make sure - the people of wales want. what would you do differently to make sure this. you do differently to make sure this lack of— you do differently to make sure this lack of communication _ you do differently to make sure this lack of communication doesn't - you do differently to make sure this. lack of communication doesn't become an issue _ lack of communication doesn't become an issue again — lack of communication doesn't become an issue again i— lack of communication doesn't become an issue again ido— lack of communication doesn't become an issue again-— an issue again. i do think that when ou are an issue again. i do think that when you are introducing _ an issue again. i do think that when you are introducing a _ an issue again. i do think that when you are introducing a big _ an issue again. i do think that when you are introducing a big change, i you are introducing a big change, and governments should be radical and governments should be radical and bold _ and governments should be radical and bold when they are clear there are public— and bold when they are clear there are public benefits to the policy. but that — are public benefits to the policy. but that is — are public benefits to the policy. but that is difficult, it is challenging isn't it, when you a change of that scale. think about where we introduced when we banned smoking in pubs, there was a huge backlash but none of us think that would be a good thing to do. by, backlash but none of us think that would be a good thing to do. a quick word on another— would be a good thing to do. a quick word on another as _ would be a good thing to do. a quick word on another as expect _ would be a good thing to do. a quick word on another as expect of- would be a good thing to do. a quick word on another as expect of policy. word on another as expect of policy and transport policy, the ma, it was debated for half a century here in wales whether it should be widened by newport. as a good friday agreement you decided no do that. as a minister would you look at that again, because you were quite keen on this idea, weren't you back in 2018. is” on this idea, weren't you back in 2018.1- ., ., ., ., on this idea, weren't you back in 2018.i ., ., ., ., , on this idea, weren't you back in 2018.i ., ., ., ., y ., 2018. is i am not going to try to retend 2018. is i am not going to try to pretend we _ 2018. is i am not going to try to pretend we will— 2018. is i am not going to try to pretend we will have _ 2018. is i am not going to try to pretend we will have the - 2018. is i am not going to try to pretend we will have the ability | pretend we will have the ability even _ pretend we will have the ability even if — pretend we will have the ability even if we wanted to, to build an m4 leaf road _ even if we wanted to, to build an m4 leaf road. we don't have the money to do— leaf road. we don't have the money to do it _ leaf road. we don't have the money to do it. more than that, the environmental consideration would have to _ environmental consideration would have to go — environmental consideration would have to go through again. we have a plan we _ have to go through again. we have a plan we need to deliver to improve public— plan we need to deliver to improve public transport. but plan we need to deliver to improve public transport.— public transport. but if keir starmer gives _ public transport. but if keir starmer gives you - public transport. but if keir starmer gives you the - public transport. but if keir l starmer gives you the money public transport. but if keir - starmer gives you the money you public transport. but if keir _ starmer gives you the money you will do it? it starmer gives you the money you will do it? , ., , ., . starmer gives you the money you will do it? , . ., do it? it is about much more, we have a plan _ do it? it is about much more, we have a plan to — do it? it is about much more, we have a plan to deliver— do it? it is about much more, we have a plan to deliver that - do it? it is about much more, we i have a plan to deliver that includes for example a new station at the edge _ for example a new station at the edge of— for example a new station at the edge of my constituency. think it's a good _ edge of my constituency. think it's a good idea — edge of my constituency. think it's a good idea. it will help us get more — a good idea. it will help us get more cars— a good idea. it will help us get more cars off the road. in a form of transport _ more cars off the road. in a form of transport people will use, so it is about— transport people will use, so it is about investing what will work to release _ about investing what will work to release some of the pressure on the roads _ release some of the pressure on the roads. so _ release some of the pressure on the roads. ., ~ ., , , roads. so no m4 relief road as first minister at — roads. so no m4 relief road as first minister at all. _ roads. so no m4 relief road as first minister at all. you _ roads. so no m4 relief road as first minister at all. you thrill— roads. so no m4 relief road as first minister at all. you thrill out. - roads. so no m4 relief road as first minister at all. you thrill out. i - minister at all. you thrill out. i am not getting drawn into a hypothetical. i am very clear we don't _ hypothetical. i am very clear we don't have — hypothetical. i am very clear we don't have the money, it is not on the agenda — don't have the money, it is not on the agenda and it is not going to happen — the agenda and it is not going to happen. there are real environmental considerations as well. we have a plan we _ considerations as well. we have a plan we have committed to that we need to— plan we have committed to that we need to deliver. gk. that is what i need to deliver. ok. that is what i am need to deliver. that is what i am committed need to deliver. ok. that is what i am committed to need to deliver. if;. that is what i am committed to do. need to deliver. ok. that is what i am committed to do. i _ need to deliver. ok. that is what i am committed to do. i know- need to deliver. ok. that is what i - am committed to do. i know somebody else wants to — am committed to do. i know somebody else wants to come _ am committed to do. i know somebody else wants to come in _ am committed to do. i know somebody else wants to come in on _ am committed to do. i know somebody else wants to come in on this. - am committed to do. i know somebody else wants to come in on this. ian - else wants to come in on this. ian thomas. , ., ., thomas. on the question of keir starmer's _ thomas. on the question of keir starmer's money, _ thomas. on the question of keir starmer's money, are _ thomas. on the question of keir starmer's money, are you - thomas. on the question of keir. starmer's money, are you confident that a _ starmer's money, are you confident that a future — starmer's money, are you confident that a future uk _ starmer's money, are you confident that a future uk labour— starmer's money, are you confidentj that a future uk labour government would _ that a future uk labour government would deliver— that a future uk labour government would deliver to _ that a future uk labour government would deliver to wales _ that a future uk labour government would deliver to wales for— that a future uk labour governmentj would deliver to wales for example, things— would deliver to wales for example, things like _ would deliver to wales for example, things like reimbursement— would deliver to wales for example, things like reimbursement for- would deliver to wales for example, things like reimbursement for hsz, i things like reimbursement for hsz, or do— things like reimbursement for hsz, or do you _ things like reimbursement for hsz, or do you think— things like reimbursement for hsz, or do you think that _ things like reimbursement for hsz, or do you think that there - things like reimbursement for hsz, or do you think that there needs i things like reimbursement for hsz, or do you think that there needs to| or do you think that there needs to be a distinctive _ or do you think that there needs to be a distinctive welsh _ or do you think that there needs to be a distinctive welsh labour- be a distinctive welsh labour government _ be a distinctive welsh labour government.— be a distinctive welsh labour government. , , ., , ., government. this is the money that would come — government. this is the money that would come to _ government. this is the money that would come to wales _ government. this is the money that would come to wales if _ government. this is the money that would come to wales if it _ government. this is the money that would come to wales if it was - would come to wales if it was designated an england only project, which it is not a train from london to birmingham. to which it is not a train from london to birmingham.— which it is not a train from london to birmingham. to be clearer for me the m4 relief— to birmingham. to be clearer for me the m4 relief road _ to birmingham. to be clearer for me the m4 relief road is _ to birmingham. to be clearer for me the m4 relief road is not _ to birmingham. to be clearer for me the m4 relief road is not about - to birmingham. to be clearer for me the m4 relief road is not about the i the m4 relief road is not about the money, it is the environmental impact. it is not about the funding, if we had the funding i would not spend it on that, but the point is central. how can we make sure that the settlement that we have in wales more fairly reflects our needs in wales, and actually more fairly reflects you know, under the barnett formula, i very much want to see that changed, by would make the case to an incoming labour government that the consequential we should have had from hs2 comes to wales and i would want to invest that in transport. i would want to invest that in transport-— transport. have you had any guarantees _ transport. have you had any guarantees that _ transport. have you had any guarantees that you - transport. have you had any guarantees that you would i transport. have you had any i guarantees that you would get transport. have you had any - guarantees that you would get this money, because clearly in both your manifestos you seem to think it is coming, £2 billion.— coming, £2 billion. there is no commitment, _ coming, £2 billion. there is no commitment, that _ coming, £2 billion. there is no commitment, that wouldn't i coming, £2 billion. there is no commitment, that wouldn't be appropriate. commitment, that wouldn't be appropriate-— commitment, that wouldn't be a--roriate. ., ., appropriate. you have said in your manifesto we _ appropriate. you have said in your manifesto we will _ appropriate. you have said in your manifesto we will make _ appropriate. you have said in your manifesto we will make use - appropriate. you have said in your manifesto we will make use of - appropriate. you have said in your . manifesto we will make use of wales' fair share of h52 investment as long last. . . fair share of h52 investment as long last. ., , ., , ., last. that is money we are entitled to have in my _ last. that is money we are entitled to have in my view. _ last. that is money we are entitled to have in my view. so _ last. that is money we are entitled to have in my view. so no - last. that is money we are entitled. to have in my view. so no guarantee it is coming — to have in my view. so no guarantee it is coming we _ to have in my view. so no guarantee it is coming we have _ to have in my view. so no guarantee it is coming we have the _ to have in my view. so no guarantee it is coming we have the urn - to have in my view. so no guarantee it is coming we have the urn bes - it is coming we have the urn bes commission _ it is coming we have the urn bes commission who _ it is coming we have the urn bes commission who work _ it is coming we have the urn bes commission who work for - it is coming we have the urn bes commission who work for us - it is coming we have the urn bes commission who work for us in i it is coming we have the urn bes l commission who work for us in the south—east and in north wales, there is a plan there for how we can upgrade transport infrastructure. and your manifesto... i will make the case for _ and your manifesto... i will make the case for that _ and your manifesto... i will make the case for that funding - and your manifesto... i will make the case for that funding to - and your manifesto... i will make the case for that funding to be - the case for that funding to be spend own that.— the case for that funding to be spend own that. the case for that funding to be send own that. ., ., , ., ,, spend own that. your manifesto h52 is an england _ spend own that. your manifesto h52 is an england only _ spend own that. your manifesto h52 is an england only project, _ spend own that. your manifesto h52 is an england only project, to - spend own that. your manifesto h52 is an england only project, to deny i is an england only project, to deny us funding that we are ensiteled to. i back creating an independent secretariat to ensure the uk can't mistreat devolved nations. so that would give the 2 billion? it is mistreat devolved nations. so that would give the 2 billion?— would give the 2 billion? it is an encland would give the 2 billion? it is an england only — would give the 2 billion? it is an england only project. _ would give the 2 billion? it is an england only project. it's - would give the 2 billion? it is an england only project. it's a - england only project. it's a fiction. _ england only project. it's a fiction. it _ england only project. it's a fiction, it always was a was to say it is england and wales, after the u-turn_ it is england and wales, after the u-turn of— it is england and wales, after the u-turn of it — it is england and wales, after the u—turn of it stopping in birmingham there _ u—turn of it stopping in birmingham there is— u—turn of it stopping in birmingham there is no— u—turn of it stopping in birmingham there is no prospect of saying this is an— there is no prospect of saying this is an england and wales prospect in the future, — is an england and wales prospect in the future, it is more thanks, it is about— the future, it is more thanks, it is about the — the future, it is more thanks, it is about the investment, we need a north— about the investment, we need a north and — about the investment, we need a north and south wales, i think the general— north and south wales, i think the general election matters, notjust general election matters, not just what _ general election matters, not just what a _ general election matters, notjust what a uk — general election matters, notjust what a uk labour government will do, but i what a uk labour government will do, but i think— what a uk labour government will do, but i think there will be good chunk of welsh _ but i think there will be good chunk of welsh labour mps, proper advocates for a fair deal for wales. same _ advocates for a fair deal for wales. same question, have you had a guarantee from mr starmer? there isn't a manifesto _ guarantee from mr starmer? there isn't a manifesto yet. _ guarantee from mr starmer? there isn't a manifesto yet. the - guarantee from mr starmer? there isn't a manifesto yet. the idea - guarantee from mr starmer? there isn't a manifesto yet. the idea you will have _ isn't a manifesto yet. the idea you will have a — isn't a manifesto yet. the idea you will have a cast iron guarantee on specific— will have a cast iron guarantee on specific sums of money, but i think if you _ specific sums of money, but i think if you look— specific sums of money, but i think if you look at where we are, i have secure _ if you look at where we are, i have secure agreement from keir starmer about— secure agreement from keir starmer about the _ secure agreement from keir starmer about the return of european funds and months that were taken away from us by the _ and months that were taken away from us by the tory, coming back to wales for us _ us by the tory, coming back to wales for us to— us by the tory, coming back to wales for us to decide on, that is a key part— for us to decide on, that is a key part of— for us to decide on, that is a key part of my— for us to decide on, that is a key part of my pledge to restore a national— part of my pledge to restore a national strategic programme so i have credibility in making an argument, with the uk labour front bench, _ argument, with the uk labour front bench, i_ argument, with the uk labour front bench, i am — argument, with the uk labour front bench, i am confident i can do the same _ bench, i am confident i can do the same again— bench, i am confident i can do the same again as first minister. thank ou both same again as first minister. thank you both very _ same again as first minister. thank you both very much. _ same again as first minister. thank you both very much. the _ same again as first minister. thank you both very much. the next - you both very much. the next question from rebecca davis. hello. with the recent _ question from rebecca davis. hello. with the recent news _ question from rebecca davis. hello. with the recent news about - question from rebecca davis. hello. with the recent news about job - with the recent news about job losses — with the recent news about job losses at — with the recent news about job losses at tata _ with the recent news about job losses at tata steel, _ with the recent news about job losses at tata steel, what - with the recent news about job. losses at tata steel, what would with the recent news about job - losses at tata steel, what would you do as _ losses at tata steel, what would you do as first _ losses at tata steel, what would you do as first minister— losses at tata steel, what would you do as first minister to _ losses at tata steel, what would you do as first minister to fight - losses at tata steel, what would you do as first minister to fight for - do as first minister to fight for steel? — do as first minister to fight for steel? ~ ~' ., do as first minister to fight for steel? ~ ~ ., , ., , do as first minister to fight for steel? ~ ~' ., , ., , ., do as first minister to fight for steel? ~ ~ ., , .,, ., ., ~' steel? well i know people who work in the steelworks _ steel? well i know people who work in the steelworks and _ steel? well i know people who work in the steelworks and i _ steel? well i know people who work in the steelworks and i know- in the steelworks and i know families who have more than one many member of the family who work there and they are anxious and they are also angry and we are all angry because we have been making the case for 14 years to the tory government take steel seriously and plan 0 for the future. what we have seen with welsh governments under rhodri and car win and welsh governments under rhodri and carwin and mark, welsh governments under rhodri and car win and mark, a welsh governments under rhodri and carwin and mark, a real welsh governments under rhodri and car win and mark, a real support for training, for skills, innovation in the steel sector because we know how essential it is notjust for the welsh economy but for the economy of the uk, it is absolutely fundamental, and we must not give up on that steel—making capacity and the case i would make to tata is to look at the alternative plan, which multiunions have brought forward which provides a just transition to that new greener way of producing steel, at exactly the moment when we have the promise of an incoming labour government, prepared to invest specifically in steel but to have an industrial strategy for the first time in 14 years which will invest in infrastructure, invest in the grid as a new horizon, now is not the time for tata to take that decision. ., ~' ., not the time for tata to take that decision. ., ~ ., ., ., ., , decision. you know that tata bosses have appeared _ decision. you know that tata bosses have appeared in — decision. you know that tata bosses have appeared in westminster- decision. you know that tata bosses have appeared in westminster and i decision. you know that tata bosses l have appeared in westminster and at the senedd and they have said no way the senedd and they have said no way the blast furnaces for making steel in the traditional way could be kept. it is over. that is the message from tata in terms of the blast furnaces.— blast furnaces. they are building them else we — blast furnaces. they are building them else we are _ blast furnaces. they are building them else we are in _ blast furnaces. they are building them else we are in the - blast furnaces. they are building them else we are in the world, i blast furnaces. they are building l them else we are in the world, as blast furnaces. they are building - them else we are in the world, as we know, the case to be made is one where decisions should not be taken now, which they will regret in a different political context, which maybe a matter of months away. there is a brighter future for steel, with an incoming labour government and we have to do everything we can to make sure the decision isn't taken now and wait until then. vaughan gething, rishi sunak in the commons today made the point again that they put money into saving jobs in port talbot, and the welsh government hasn't put anything in. i think that is thoroughly misleading, and simply not honest. if you look at where _ and simply not honest. if you look at where we are today, the real concern — at where we are today, the real concern in _ at where we are today, the real concern in the workforce not just at where we are today, the real concern in the workforce notjust in port talbot — concern in the workforce notjust in port talbot is very real. there is anxiety— port talbot is very real. there is anxiety and _ port talbot is very real. there is anxiety and anger about the proposals, and this isn't the best deal for— proposals, and this isn't the best deal for steel, this is the cheapest. and it is a deal that is bound _ cheapest. and it is a deal that is bound up— cheapest. and it is a deal that is bound up by tory choices. if they had said — bound up by tory choices. if they had said that tata need to deliver more _ had said that tata need to deliver more value for money, that could have _ more value for money, that could have been— more value for money, that could have been part of it, and the alternative plans do mean that you invest _ alternative plans do mean that you invest more but you gain more as well _ invest more but you gain more as well and — invest more but you gain more as well and i— invest more but you gain more as well. and ijust don't accept the final— well. and ijust don't accept the final whistle has blown. these are proposals — final whistle has blown. these are proposals without an ending. if there _ proposals without an ending. if there is— proposals without an ending. if there is a — proposals without an ending. if there is a blast furnace that is still alive. _ there is a blast furnace that is stillalive, still there is a blast furnace that is still alive, still running hot and there _ still alive, still running hot and there is— still alive, still running hot and there is a — still alive, still running hot and there is a new government, there is an entirely— there is a new government, there is an entirely different conversation to be _ an entirely different conversation to be had — an entirely different conversation to be had. it described the alternative plans is credible but not affordable. that is not about what _ not affordable. that is not about what the — not affordable. that is not about what the uk government chooses to do to make _ what the uk government chooses to do to make those plans are affordable, and to _ to make those plans are affordable, and to see _ to make those plans are affordable, and to see the value of steel. today in cans, _ and to see the value of steel. today in cans, cars— and to see the value of steel. today in cans, cars and construction we need _ in cans, cars and construction we need primary steel made in port talbot — need primary steel made in port talbot in — need primary steel made in port talbot. in the future we will need more _ talbot. in the future we will need more of— talbot. in the future we will need more of that for the green energy revolution— more of that for the green energy revolution off our shores. there is a bright _ revolution off our shores. there is a bright future for steel and steel workers — a bright future for steel and steel workers i— a bright future for steel and steel workers. i have been proud to stand alongside _ workers. i have been proud to stand alongside them, to learn more about their industry. they are real experts _ their industry. they are real experts on what they do. i was proud to stand _ experts on what they do. i was proud to stand with them in their rallies, in newport— to stand with them in their rallies, in newport and in port talbot recently. _ in newport and in port talbot recently, and they do know that with me there _ recently, and they do know that with me there is — recently, and they do know that with me there is someone who understands the industry. _ me there is someone who understands the industry, understands the fight and the _ the industry, understands the fight and the value of what they do. i have _ and the value of what they do. i have a — and the value of what they do. i have a voice stood up for steel, and i have a voice stood up for steel, and ialways— have a voice stood up for steel, and i always will — have a voice stood up for steel, and i always will. i will be proud to do so as— i always will. i will be proud to do so as first— i always will. i will be proud to do so as first minister. and i always will. i will be proud to do so as first minister.— i always will. i will be proud to do so as first minister. and you have been on the _ so as first minister. and you have been on the rallies. _ so as first minister. and you have been on the rallies. should - so as first minister. and you have been on the rallies. should they i been on the rallies. should they strike? would you back a strike? they have to decide what they think the right— they have to decide what they think the right choice is, and in any industrial— the right choice is, and in any industrial negotiation, you've got to think— industrial negotiation, you've got to think about how meaningful is the negotiation, and we've been very clear— negotiation, and we've been very clear in— negotiation, and we've been very clear in the — negotiation, and we've been very clear in the meetings i have with the first — clear in the meetings i have with the first minister in tata not to make _ the first minister in tata not to make any— the first minister in tata not to make any irreversible choices now. they— make any irreversible choices now. they have — make any irreversible choices now. they have got to decide whether taking _ they have got to decide whether taking industrial action is the right— taking industrial action is the right thing to do, when actually if they really are... you right thing to do, when actually if they really are. . ._ right thing to do, when actually if they really are... you have got the backina they really are... you have got the backing of — they really are... you have got the backing of the _ they really are... you have got the backing of the unions _ they really are... you have got the backing of the unions here. - they really are... you have got the backing of the unions here. should they go on strike? i backing of the unions here. should they go on strike?— they go on strike? i have the backina they go on strike? i have the backing of — they go on strike? i have the backing of all _ they go on strike? i have the backing of all three - they go on strike? i have the backing of all three steel - they go on strike? i have the - backing of all three steel unions, community, gmb and unite. what they need to— community, gmb and unite. what they need to do— community, gmb and unite. what they need to do with their ongoing... as first need to do with their ongoing... first minister, need to do with their ongoing... 55 first minister, what would need to do with their ongoing... 23 first minister, what would you do if they want strike? would you encourage them or condemn it? i’m encourage them or condemn it? i'm not auoin encourage them or condemn it? i'm not going to condemn people who exercise _ not going to condemn people who exercise their democratic right to take industrial action, exercise their democratic right to take industrialaction, but exercise their democratic right to take industrial action, but you have to carry— take industrial action, but you have to carry on — take industrial action, but you have to carry on talking with all sides, but is _ to carry on talking with all sides, but is part— to carry on talking with all sides, but is part of the job. you can't avoid _ but is part of the job. you can't avoid talking with the trade unions or the _ avoid talking with the trade unions or the company. avoid talking with the trade unions orthe company. i'd avoid talking with the trade unions or the company. i'd like to be able to have _ or the company. i'd like to be able to have a — or the company. i'd like to be able to have a conversation with the uk government, but unfortunately there is a choice _ government, but unfortunately there is a choice not to have a meaningful conversation — is a choice not to have a meaningful conversation with us that could deliver— conversation with us that could deliver a — conversation with us that could deliver a better future.- deliver a better future. jeremy miles, deliver a better future. jeremy miles. you _ deliver a better future. jeremy miles, you have _ deliver a better future. jeremy miles, you have been - deliver a better future. jeremy i miles, you have been protesting deliver a better future. jeremy - miles, you have been protesting on the rallies. would you back a strike? ., , .,~ , the rallies. would you back a strike? , , . , ., ., strike? nobody takes the decision to strike? nobody takes the decision to strike likely. — strike? nobody takes the decision to strike likely, so _ strike? nobody takes the decision to strike likely, so if _ strike? nobody takes the decision to strike likely, so if you _ strike? nobody takes the decision to strike likely, so if you get _ strike? nobody takes the decision to strike likely, so if you get to - strike? nobody takes the decision to strike likely, so if you get to the - strike likely, so if you get to the position where workers in port talbot and elsewhere feel that is the last resort and the best way of making their voice heard, we would have to support their articulation of their case. but what needs to happen at this point is for tata to look at the alternative plans which are on the table, and which are regarded by tata themselves as credible. gn regarded by tata themselves as credible. . credible. on green steel in the ureen credible. on green steel in the green economy, _ credible. on green steel in the green economy, we _ credible. on green steel in the green economy, we have - credible. on green steel in the green economy, we have had. credible. on green steel in the i green economy, we have had keir starmer backing down on 28 billion in investment. he might back down on green steel. he might withdraw that 3 billion. mn; green steel. he might withdraw that 3 billion. y . . , 3 billion. my first pledge in my manifesto _ 3 billion. my first pledge in my manifesto is _ 3 billion. my first pledge in my manifesto is about _ 3 billion. my first pledge in my manifesto is about making - 3 billion. my first pledge in my| manifesto is about making sure 3 billion. my first pledge in my - manifesto is about making sure that every _ manifesto is about making sure that every penny that we spend is there to stimulate the economy and sustainable jobs in the sustainable economy — sustainable jobs in the sustainable economy |— sustainable 'obs in the sustainable econom . ~' . , sustainable 'obs in the sustainable econom . ~ ., , ., economy. i think any government in cardiff or in — economy. i think any government in cardiff or in westminster _ economy. i think any government in cardiff or in westminster should - cardiff or in westminster should spend everything it can on transforming our economy into a more sustainable model, and i am absolutely confident that what we will see with a keir starmer government is a step change in the level of investment in our green economy. i wasjust level of investment in our green economy. i was just saying earlier about the investment in the grade and renewable infrastructure. that is the future for our economy across the uk, and there is a brilliant opportunity for us here in wales with floating offshore wind which has the potential to power the entire, significant element of the entire, significant element of the entire united kingdom's needs. the task for us is to make sure that the benefit of that is felt in the welsh economy, not simply in economies elsewhere. economy, not simply in economies elsewhere-— economy, not simply in economies elsewhere. �* , , ., ., elsewhere. and 'ust before we move on to farming. — elsewhere. and just before we move on to farming, we _ elsewhere. and just before we move on to farming, we are _ elsewhere. and just before we move on to farming, we are talking - elsewhere. and just before we move on to farming, we are talking about| on to farming, we are talking about unions, the farming unions. ijust wanted to clear something up between you, because the nominations, one row that has been in this contest has been about the unite union backing you. what is a stitch up or not? anything to say on that, and have you kissed and made up? i never fell out with — have you kissed and made up? i never fell out with jeremy _ have you kissed and made up? i never fell out with jeremy or _ have you kissed and made up? i never fell out with jeremy or any _ have you kissed and made up? i never fell out with jeremy or any of - have you kissed and made up? i never fell out with jeremy or any of the - fell out with jeremy or any of the trade _ fell out with jeremy or any of the trade unions. i accepted the result of every— trade unions. i accepted the result of every contest has a deal with the previous— of every contest has a deal with the previous one, and it is really important _ previous one, and it is really important that we are united, because — important that we are united, because we need each other and the rest of— because we need each other and the rest of this— because we need each other and the rest of this year for a general election— rest of this year for a general election that we must win in the next _ election that we must win in the next two — election that we must win in the next two years in the senedd. we are going _ next two years in the senedd. we are going to _ next two years in the senedd. we are going to be _ next two years in the senedd. we are going to be on the same team. so it wasn't a last — going to be on the same team. so it wasn't a last minute _ going to be on the same team. if i wasn't a last minute will change, you won fair and square.- wasn't a last minute will change, you won fair and square. there was a real change — you won fair and square. there was a real change last _ you won fair and square. there was a real change last year, _ you won fair and square. there was a real change last year, unite - you won fair and square. there was a | real change last year, unite members change _ real change last year, unite members change their rules as they are entitled — change their rules as they are entitled to. i have accepted every decision— entitled to. i have accepted every decision whether it went for me or not, decision whether it went for me or not. and _ decision whether it went for me or not. and we — decision whether it went for me or not, and we have to get on, get through— not, and we have to get on, get through this context of the united labour— through this context of the united labour government.— through this context of the united labour government. jeremy miles do ou auree? labour government. jeremy miles do you agree? for— labour government. jeremy miles do you agree? for me — labour government. jeremy miles do you agree? for me it _ labour government. jeremy miles do you agree? for me it isn't _ labour government. jeremy miles do you agree? for me it isn't about - labour government. jeremy miles do you agree? for me it isn't about whoj you agree? for me it isn't about who the unions ended _ you agree? for me it isn't about who the unions ended up _ you agree? for me it isn't about who the unions ended up nominating, - the unions ended up nominating, despite standing up for me it isn't about who the unions ended up nominating, despite standing up front and prefer procedure. i have made a statement about this and i don't need to say anything else, but at the end of the day, let's be absolutely clear. this election will be won on the votes of individual party members in individual union members and we should not take that for granted. taste members and we should not take that for ranted. ~ . .. members and we should not take that for ranted. ~ ., ,, ., ., for granted. we were talking about a ureen for granted. we were talking about a green transition _ for granted. we were talking about a green transition within _ for granted. we were talking about a green transition within the _ for granted. we were talking about a green transition within the steel - green transition within the steel industry. it is all about a green transition within farming, lots of angry farmers around, and i know so many wants to come in on this. how would you address the concerns of our— how would you address the concerns of our rural— how would you address the concerns of our rural communities _ how would you address the concerns of our rural communities and - how would you address the concernsl of our rural communities and farmers to ensure _ of our rural communities and farmers to ensure that — of our rural communities and farmers to ensure that they _ of our rural communities and farmers to ensure that they are _ of our rural communities and farmers to ensure that they are actually- to ensure that they are actually listened — to ensure that they are actually listened to? _ to ensure that they are actually listened to?— to ensure that they are actually. listened to?— i listened to? vaughan gething? i think what we _ listened to? vaughan gething? i think what we need _ listened to? vaughan gething? i think what we need to _ listened to? vaughan gething? i think what we need to recognise | listened to? vaughan gething? i i think what we need to recognise at the outset — think what we need to recognise at the outset is that lots of people are concerned in rural communities. i are concerned in rural communities. i grew— are concerned in rural communities. i grew up— are concerned in rural communities. i grew up in— are concerned in rural communities. i grew up in a — are concerned in rural communities. i grew up in a rural community, i know— i grew up in a rural community, i know what— i grew up in a rural community, i know what it's like. my father was a rural vet~ _ know what it's like. my father was a rural vet i— know what it's like. my father was a rural vet. i spent lots of times on farms _ rural vet. i spent lots of times on farms in — rural vet. i spent lots of times on farms in my— rural vet. i spent lots of times on farms in my childhood writing down the results — farms in my childhood writing down the results of tests, and my mum was a chicken _ the results of tests, and my mum was a chicken farmer. you might not always— a chicken farmer. you might not always think it was the former employment lawyer representing a cardiff _ employment lawyer representing a cardiff seat, but i do understand. when _ cardiff seat, but i do understand. when we — cardiff seat, but i do understand. when we are in the newtown hustings on the _ when we are in the newtown hustings on the weekend, we sat down with farmers— on the weekend, we sat down with farmers at— on the weekend, we sat down with farmers at the end of the hustings, so we _ farmers at the end of the hustings, so we had — farmers at the end of the hustings, so we had a — farmers at the end of the hustings, so we had a reasonable, rational conversation where there were robust views _ conversation where there were robust views but _ conversation where there were robust views but to _ conversation where there were robust views put to us, but it was respectful and constructive. we need more _ respectful and constructive. we need more of— respectful and constructive. we need more of that, not less. i think that we can— more of that, not less. i think that we can do— more of that, not less. i think that we can do that in the remaining two weeks _ we can do that in the remaining two weeks of— we can do that in the remaining two weeks of the consultation that we have, _ weeks of the consultation that we have, and — weeks of the consultation that we have, and it is then about understanding what comes through, notjust— understanding what comes through, notjust the parts understanding what comes through, not just the parts of the new scheme that people may not like, but alternatives for that as well. and that exactly the conversation i had when _ that exactly the conversation i had when i _ that exactly the conversation i had when i met— that exactly the conversation i had when i met one of the farming unions 'ust when i met one of the farming unions just two weeks ago as well. i think a proper— just two weeks ago as well. i think a proper conversation about a future where _ a proper conversation about a future where sustainable food production is part of— where sustainable food production is part of what we want to see happen in every— part of what we want to see happen in every sector of the economy and public— in every sector of the economy and public service needs to make a positive — public service needs to make a positive contribution to the climate. _ positive contribution to the climate, and farmers know that. they are guardians of the land and they see the _ are guardians of the land and they see the changing climate, they see the reduction in nature around them as well, _ the reduction in nature around them as well, so— the reduction in nature around them as well, so we're not talking to people — as well, so we're not talking to people who i think are universally opposed — people who i think are universally opposed to any form of action, in fact in— opposed to any form of action, in fact in conversation we had, they were _ fact in conversation we had, they were clear— fact in conversation we had, they were clear that they thought there was a _ were clear that they thought there was a need for change. it was what that look— was a need for change. it was what that look like. and that was a conversation that both candidates have the — conversation that both candidates have the same conversation, the same group _ have the same conversation, the same group of— have the same conversation, the same group of farmers with, so i have more _ group of farmers with, so i have more optimism for the next two weeks of the _ more optimism for the next two weeks of the consultation. but more optimism for the next two weeks of the consultation.— of the consultation. but on the 1096 that farmers _ of the consultation. but on the 1096 that farmers have _ of the consultation. but on the 1096 that farmers have to _ of the consultation. but on the 1096 that farmers have to plant - of the consultation. but on the 1096 that farmers have to plant trees - of the consultation. but on the 1096 that farmers have to plant trees on | that farmers have to plant trees on 10% of their land, would you budge? even within the consultation, it is clear— even within the consultation, it is clear there — even within the consultation, it is clear there is flexibility on that, and it— clear there is flexibility on that, and it is— clear there is flexibility on that, and it is one of the things that we were _ and it is one of the things that we were having a conversation about in terms _ were having a conversation about in terms of— were having a conversation about in terms of if— were having a conversation about in terms of if you have somewhere where you can't _ terms of if you have somewhere where you can't naturally do that without taking _ you can't naturally do that without taking out — you can't naturally do that without taking out productive agricultural land, _ taking out productive agricultural land, what are the alternatives? those _ land, what are the alternatives? those of — land, what are the alternatives? those of the things i think we are keen— those of the things i think we are keen to _ those of the things i think we are keen to hear from, and they have been _ keen to hear from, and they have been ten — keen to hear from, and they have been ten roadshows about this already. — been ten roadshows about this already, thousands of farmers already— already, thousands of farmers already have had a day in the design of this— already have had a day in the design of this up— already have had a day in the design of this up to — already have had a day in the design of this up to now. but already have had a day in the design of this up to now.— of this up to now. but they are not ha . . l of this up to now. but they are not happy. the — of this up to now. but they are not happy. the tractors _ of this up to now. but they are not happy, the tractors are _ of this up to now. but they are not i happy, the tractors are everywhere. what do you think? it is happy, the tractors are everywhere. what do you think?— what do you think? it is not 'ust about the farmers, it is i what do you think? it is notjustl about the farmers, it is the wider rural— about the farmers, it is the wider rural communities _ about the farmers, it is the wider rural communities as— about the farmers, it is the wider rural communities as well- about the farmers, it is the wider rural communities as well in - about the farmers, it is the wider. rural communities as well in terms of the _ rural communities as well in terms of the supply— rural communities as well in terms of the supply chains, _ rural communities as well in terms of the supply chains, the _ rural communities as well in terms of the supply chains, the jobs, - rural communities as well in terms of the supply chains, the jobs, and the impact — of the supply chains, the jobs, and the impact on _ of the supply chains, the jobs, and the impact on culture, _ of the supply chains, the jobs, and the impact on culture, language i of the supply chains, the jobs, and i the impact on culture, language and everything _ the impact on culture, language and everything else _ the impact on culture, language and everything else-— everything else. anybody else? the lad with everything else. anybody else? the lady with glasses? _ everything else. anybody else? the lady with glasses? i _ everything else. anybody else? the lady with glasses? i thought - everything else. anybody else? the lady with glasses? i thought you're | lady with glasses? i thought you're about to set up them. 0k, jeremy miles. mark drakeford said yesterday that actually what's happening in wales now is the fact that farmers voted for brexit. you are a former brexit minister. was that a fair comment to make? the brexit minister. was that a fair comment to make?— brexit minister. was that a fair comment to make? the point is really that --eole comment to make? the point is really that people were _ comment to make? the point is really that people were told _ comment to make? the point is really that people were told that _ comment to make? the point is really that people were told that this - that people were told that this would not be a consequent of brexit, and i'm afraid it was always going to be. ., ., ., , ., ., to be. not all farmers voted for brexit. should _ to be. not all farmers voted for brexit. should he _ to be. not all farmers voted for brexit. should he have - to be. not all farmers voted for brexit. should he have said - to be. not all farmers voted for. brexit. should he have said that? the point i'm making is that it is about agriculture at the heart of our rural economy, and what we are seeing is people going through a period of very significant change, and i was brought up surrounded by farmland where i live in my constituency now also surrounded by farmland, sol constituency now also surrounded by farmland, so i get how important this is, we have got to get it right. we are already working with lots of farmers to do two things, to make sure we have a policy which keeps farmers on the land make sure we have a policy which keeps farmers on the [and producing food for us as a nation, and secondly, making sure that the agriculture sector like every other sector is making its contribution to the climate and nature emergency targets that we have is a government, and we are working with them already but we clearly need to make sure that dialogue continues in a way which is open... but make sure that dialogue continues in a way which is open. . ._ a way which is open... but can you aet it as a way which is open... but can you get it as a — a way which is open... but can you get it as a government? _ a way which is open... but can you get it as a government? rishi - a way which is open... but can you i get it as a government? rishi sunak said today, they get it in terms of understanding the farming sector. the president of the nfu in wales yesterday said that it seems as if the uk government gets agriculture better than the welsh labour government. better than the welsh labour government-— better than the welsh labour government. better than the welsh labour rovernment. , ., , government. using that term gets it, i have used government. using that term gets it, i have used it — government. using that term gets it, i have used it myself _ government. using that term gets it, i have used it myself but _ government. using that term gets it, i have used it myself but it _ government. using that term gets it, i have used it myself but it doesn't i i have used it myself but it doesn't tell you much about what is happening in practice, and what needs to happen in practice is as i was saying earlier going into the discussion with a clear sense of what you want to achieve, but listening as you do that, and in listening as you do that, and in listening you learn and find ways in which you can resolve what is clearly an incredibly tense situation where people are feeling anxious. this is public money, so the government is entitled to put conditions on how that is spent, but clearly we need to have a dialogue with those who are concerned about that. �* , ., ., with those who are concerned about that. �* i. ., with those who are concerned about that. �* ., that. but you have said in the past that. but you have said in the past that maybe _ that. but you have said in the past that maybe wouldn't _ that. but you have said in the past that maybe wouldn't budge - that. but you have said in the past that maybe wouldn't budge on - that. but you have said in the past that maybe wouldn't budge on thej that. but you have said in the past - that maybe wouldn't budge on the 1096 that maybe wouldn't budge on the 10% of trees. the that maybe wouldn't budge on the 1096 of trees. .. , . that maybe wouldn't budge on the 1096 of trees. ~ , , ., ., ,, , of trees. the key is to make sure there is sufficient _ of trees. the key is to make sure there is sufficient flexibility - of trees. the key is to make sure there is sufficient flexibility for l there is sufficient flexibility for that to be practically delivered. we all want to make sure that is delivered, and how can we make sure it is flexible enough? there are already farm who clearly are not going to be to achieve that, in the scheme acknowledges that. is there room for more flexibility? that is the kind of thing we have to decide. farmers will say that 10% of their income will go. would you take a 10% pay cut and put it towards the environment?— pay cut and put it towards the environment? , , ,., ., , environment? this is the point i was makin: environment? this is the point i was making earlier _ environment? this is the point i was making earlier that _ environment? this is the point i was making earlier that his _ environment? this is the point i was making earlier that his obviously i making earlier that his obviously public money and government on behalf of taxpayers is entitled to set policy and objectives around how that money is spent. at the end of the day, we all want to make sure that we have a sustainable agriculture sector, and we all want to make sure that we are responding to make sure that we are responding to the climate and nature emergency is. there are ways of looking at this consultation to make sure we are hearing what people are saying to us, and i think having that dialogue is really important. gk. dialogue is really important. ok, the gentleman _ dialogue is really important. ok, the gentleman there. i _ dialogue is really important. ok, the gentleman there. i don't - dialogue is really important. ok, | the gentleman there. i don't envy our the gentleman there. i don't envy your position- _ the gentleman there. i don't envy your position. we _ the gentleman there. i don't envy your position. we have _ the gentleman there. i don't envy your position. we have two - your position. we have two conflicting _ your position. we have two conflicting sides, _ your position. we have two conflicting sides, you - your position. we have two conflicting sides, you have| your position. we have two - conflicting sides, you have farmers and you _ conflicting sides, you have farmers and you have — conflicting sides, you have farmers and you have nature, _ conflicting sides, you have farmers and you have nature, so— conflicting sides, you have farmers and you have nature, so which - conflicting sides, you have farmers and you have nature, so which one j conflicting sides, you have farmers. and you have nature, so which one do you prioritise? — and you have nature, so which one do you prioritise?— and you have nature, so which one do you prioritise?_ we i you prioritise? good question. we have seen in _ you prioritise? good question. we have seen in other _ you prioritise? good question. we have seen in other parts _ you prioritise? good question. we have seen in other parts of - you prioritise? good question. we have seen in other parts of the i have seen in other parts of the world just how much farming depends on the response to the climate and nature emergency, sol on the response to the climate and nature emergency, so i don't think it is that binary choice in the way you are describing it. and in fact the farmers we are working with to devise this policy are also helping us recognise those two priorities, so i think there is absolutely a way through this. it will not be easy and it is a big change, but the task for us all i think is to come to that discussion with open ears and to do our best. i that discussion with open ears and to do our best.— to do our best. i 'ust very briefly, ou have to do our best. i 'ust very briefly, you have both _ to do our best. ijust very briefly, you have both been _ to do our best. ijust very briefly, you have both been protesting i to do our best. ijust very briefly, i you have both been protesting with the steelworkers, why not protest with the farmers, very briefly? i have been stood shoulder to shoulder with steelworkers and i'm proud to do so _ with steelworkers and i'm proud to do so we — with steelworkers and i'm proud to do so. i've met farmers and i'm happy— do so. i've met farmers and i'm happy to— do so. i've met farmers and i'm happy to do— do so. i've met farmers and i'm happy to do so again in the future. and jeremy— happy to do so again in the future. and jeremy miles? i�*m happy to do so again in the future. and jeremy miles?— and jeremy miles? i'm happy to acce -t and jeremy miles? i'm happy to accept the _ and jeremy miles? i'm happy to accept the difficulty of _ and jeremy miles? i'm happy to accept the difficulty of the - and jeremy miles? i'm happy to i accept the difficulty of the choices that they— accept the difficulty of the choices that they face. i�*m accept the difficulty of the choices that they face.— that they face. i'm pleased that in the hustings _ that they face. i'm pleased that in the hustings we _ that they face. i'm pleased that in the hustings we did _ that they face. i'm pleased that in the hustings we did have - that they face. i'm pleased that in the hustings we did have that - the hustings we did have that conversation and as with all conversations in that sense, you learn from listening. i think it was actually productive. gk. learn from listening. i think it was actually productive.— learn from listening. i think it was actually productive. ok, before we to to our actually productive. ok, before we go to our next _ actually productive. ok, before we go to our next question, _ actually productive. ok, before we go to our next question, i - actually productive. ok, before we go to our next question, ijust - actually productive. ok, before we| go to our next question, ijust want to ask you about a breaking news story this evening. some declarations to the electoral commission show that she received two separate donations of £100,000 from the company, dawson environmental, this is breaking this evening, his director was given a suspended prison sentence since 2013 for dumping waste at a conservation site on the gwent levels. he was also involved in another site in pembrokeshire which had bad publicity. is this an appropriate person to receive donations from? all donations are checked and then filed properly with the electoral commission and indeed declared to the senedd. and the issue in pembrokeshire is one that i understand is being resolved in accordance with ni w guidance and requirements, and that work should be repeated in the coming weeks. 30 be repeated in the coming weeks. sc you are be repeated in the coming weeks. sf you are happy everything is all right? and everything we need to know about donations to your campaign, jeremy miles? donations to vauahan's campaign, jeremy miles? donations to vaughan's campaigner _ campaign, jeremy miles? donations to vaughan's campaigner and _ campaign, jeremy miles? donations to vaughan's campaigner and that - campaign, jeremy miles? donations to vaughan's campaigner and that of- campaign, jeremy miles? donations to vaughan's campaigner and that of him | vaughan's campaigner and that of him and donations are minorfor a matter for me. we have stringent environmental regulations going forward, and clear targets to reverse biodiversity loss. thank you very much, and thank you for responding to that breaking news tonight, vaughan gething, thank you very much. let's go to our next question, which comes from gwen. what would be your strategy to improve — what would be your strategy to improve the disappointing education results? _ improve the disappointing education results? ~ ., :: ' j~ improve the disappointing education results? ~ ., ::'j~ ., , improve the disappointing education results? ~ ., ::'j~ ., results? what we saw in 2018 was an improvement — results? what we saw in 2018 was an improvement across _ results? what we saw in 2018 was an improvement across all _ results? what we saw in 2018 was an improvement across all three - results? what we saw in 2018 was an i improvement across all three domains in pisa. i was clear about wanting to bring in better standards in literacy and numeracy, and i publish the online personalised assessments that people do in wales so that we can have a discussion we are having now. i think it is about two things, continuing that focus on literacy and numeracy, and that will support science as well, but also working with the 0ecd science as well, but also working with the oecd who are the organisation which run pisa about reforming our education system more broadly. we have had that work under way for a number of years. it is just starting to bear fruit now. and it hasn't borne fruit in time for the results hi, i'm aunt to a 2—year—old who is neurodivergent. _ hi, i'm aunt to a 2—year—old who is neurodivergent, when— hi, i'm aunt to a 2—year—old who is neurodivergent, when i— hi, i'm aunt to a 2—year—old who is neurodivergent, when i asked - hi, i'm aunt to a 2—year—old who is neurodivergent, when i asked howl neurodivergent, when i asked how school— neurodivergent, when i asked how school was — neurodivergent, when i asked how school was after _ neurodivergent, when i asked how school was after returning - neurodivergent, when i asked how school was after returning from i neurodivergent, when i asked howl school was after returning from the holidays _ school was after returning from the holidays she — school was after returning from the holidays she told _ school was after returning from the holidays she told me _ school was after returning from the holidays she told me it _ school was after returning from the holidays she told me it was - school was after returning from the holidays she told me it was hell- school was after returning from the holidays she told me it was hell on| holidays she told me it was hell on earth _ holidays she told me it was hell on earth and — holidays she told me it was hell on earth and as— holidays she told me it was hell on earth and as a _ holidays she told me it was hell on earth. and as a family— holidays she told me it was hell on earth. and as a family we - holidays she told me it was hell on earth. and as a family we have - holidays she told me it was hell on earth. and as a family we have to| earth. and as a family we have to send _ earth. and as a family we have to send every— earth. and as a family we have to send every day— earth. and as a family we have to send every day to _ earth. and as a family we have to send every day to hell— earth. and as a family we have to send every day to hell on - earth. and as a family we have to send every day to hell on earth. i earth. and as a family we have to i send every day to hell on earth. so, what _ send every day to hell on earth. so, what is _ send every day to hell on earth. so, what is both— send every day to hell on earth. so, what is both your— send every day to hell on earth. so, what is both your understanding - send every day to hell on earth. so, what is both your understanding of. what is both your understanding of the depthles — what is both your understanding of the depthles of— what is both your understanding of the depthles of inequality- what is both your understanding of the depthles of inequality that - the depthles of inequality that disabled — the depthles of inequality that disabled children— the depthles of inequality that disabled children and - the depthles of inequality that disabled children and their. the depthles of inequality that - disabled children and their families in wales— disabled children and their families in wales face, _ disabled children and their families in wales face, and _ disabled children and their families in wales face, and as _ disabled children and their families in wales face, and as first - in wales face, and as first minister. _ in wales face, and as first minister, how— in wales face, and as first minister, how will- in wales face, and as first minister, how will you - in wales face, and as first i minister, how will you make in wales face, and as first - minister, how will you make sure that wales — minister, how will you make sure that wales is _ minister, how will you make sure that wales is a _ minister, how will you make sure that wales is a place _ minister, how will you make sure that wales is a place where - minister, how will you make sure i that wales is a place where disabled children— that wales is a place where disabled children and — that wales is a place where disabled children and their— that wales is a place where disabled children and their families _ that wales is a place where disabled children and their families can - children and their families can thrive? — children and their families can thrive? ~ . ., children and their families can thrive? ~ _, . ,, ., children and their families can thrive? ~ . ,, ., ., thrive? we will come back to that. thank ou thrive? we will come back to that. thank you very _ thrive? we will come back to that. thank you very much. _ thank you very much. just a few more points, the lady in the back there.— the back there. thank you. with school budgets _ the back there. thank you. with school budgets being _ the back there. thank you. with school budgets being squeezed | the back there. thank you. with - school budgets being squeezed more and more. _ school budgets being squeezed more and more. and — school budgets being squeezed more and more, and with— school budgets being squeezed more and more, and with about _ school budgets being squeezed more and more, and with about 38 - school budgets being squeezed more and more, and with about 38 schoolsj and more, and with about 38 schools in cardiff _ and more, and with about 38 schools in cardiff alone _ and more, and with about 38 schools in cardiff alone who _ and more, and with about 38 schools in cardiff alone who are _ and more, and with about 38 schools in cardiff alone who are operating - in cardiff alone who are operating with enormous— in cardiff alone who are operating with enormous deficits, _ in cardiff alone who are operating with enormous deficits, is - in cardiff alone who are operating with enormous deficits, is it - with enormous deficits, is it acceptable _ with enormous deficits, is it acceptable that— with enormous deficits, is it acceptable that head - with enormous deficits, is it i acceptable that head teachers with enormous deficits, is it - acceptable that head teachers have to find _ acceptable that head teachers have to find welshings _ acceptable that head teachers have to find welshings welsh _ acceptable that head teachers have i to find welshings welsh government pay settlements _ to find welshings welsh government pay settlements from _ to find welshings welsh government pay settlements from existing - pay settlements from existing budgets? _ pay settlements from existing budgets? if _ pay settlements from existing budgets? if this _ pay settlements from existing budgets? if this was - pay settlements from existing budgets? if this was the - pay settlements from existing i budgets? if this was the private sector— budgets? if this was the private sector we — budgets? if this was the private sector we would _ budgets? if this was the private sector we would be _ budgets? if this was the private sector we would be calling - budgets? if this was the private sector we would be calling in i budgets? if this was the private | sector we would be calling in the administrators. _ sector we would be calling in the administrators.— sector we would be calling in the administrators. thank you. and the aentleman administrators. thank you. and the gentleman there. _ administrators. thank you. and the gentleman there. what _ administrators. thank you. and the gentleman there. what would - administrators. thank you. and the gentleman there. what would be i administrators. thank you. and the i gentleman there. what would be your [an to gentleman there. what would be your plan to ensure — gentleman there. what would be your plan to ensure that _ gentleman there. what would be your plan to ensure that pupils _ gentleman there. what would be your plan to ensure that pupils from - plan to ensure that pupils from different— plan to ensure that pupils from different social _ plan to ensure that pupils from different social economic- different social economic backgrounds _ different social economic backgrounds have - different social economic backgrounds have the i different social economic. backgrounds have the same educational— backgrounds have the same educational opportunities? i backgrounds have the same educational opportunities? thank you ou ve educational opportunities? thank you you very much- _ educational opportunities? thank you you very much- if _ educational opportunities? thank you you very much. if you _ educational opportunities? thank you you very much. if you would - educational opportunities? thank you you very much. if you would like - educational opportunities? thank you you very much. if you would like to i you very much. if you would like to take the disability question first. i am sorry to hear about her experience and we are, in the course of transforming our schools system, to meet _ of transforming our schools system, to meet the — of transforming our schools system, to meet the eneeds of young people with additional learning needs. we are with additional learning needs. are at the with additional learning needs. - are at the most pressurised time now, because we are running two systems as we transition from one to another. and so schools are under incredible pressure and they are facing a situation where young people are coming in at in the early years with more complex needs, what i am doing is making sure we make as much funding as is available to schools, but the point you are making is broader than that and i think we have learned i think from the evidence given to the senedd committee in the last few months round the experiences of children with disability in the education system that there is a lot more we need to do which goes beyond learning needs to disabled children and i will be engaging with the evidence we heard.— and i will be engaging with the evidence we heard. ., ., , evidence we heard. vaughan gething. we have got — evidence we heard. vaughan gething. we have got family _ evidence we heard. vaughan gething. we have got family members - evidence we heard. vaughan gething. we have got family members who - evidence we heard. vaughan gething. i we have got family members who have .one we have got family members who have gone through their education journey with additional learning needs, neurodiverse being part of it, and there _ neurodiverse being part of it, and there is— neurodiverse being part of it, and there is something about the reforms that have _ there is something about the reforms that have been described and how they work— that have been described and how they work through and understanding if they— they work through and understanding if they are _ they work through and understanding if they are working, we are moving from _ if they are working, we are moving from the _ if they are working, we are moving from the scn provision to another one. _ from the scn provision to another one. it _ from the scn provision to another one. it is — from the scn provision to another one, it is difficult for some people. _ one, it is difficult for some people, but i think one of the things— people, but i think one of the things we _ people, but i think one of the things we really need to do, when we talk about— things we really need to do, when we talk about people who are neurodiverse in particular to see the things— neurodiverse in particular to see the things they can do rather than those _ the things they can do rather than those that— the things they can do rather than those that are more difficult. i had a cyber— those that are more difficult. i had a cyber round table, that is is a bil a cyber round table, that is is a big sector— a cyber round table, that is is a big sector of the welsh economy, that is— big sector of the welsh economy, that is a _ big sector of the welsh economy, that is a sector that wants neurodiverse people, from their point _ neurodiverse people, from their point of— neurodiverse people, from their point of view it is a super power with— point of view it is a super power with skills — point of view it is a super power with skills and ables and the opportunity to have a good job and a really— opportunity to have a good job and a really good — opportunity to have a good job and a really good life, so as well as getting — really good life, so as well as getting the reforms in the system, as well— getting the reforms in the system, as well as — getting the reforms in the system, as well as having more understanding of each _ as well as having more understanding of each other, we need to see the real positives th neurodiverse people — real positives th neurodiverse people should bring to all of us, as well as— people should bring to all of us, as well as what it means for their own lives _ well as what it means for their own lives too~ _ well as what it means for their own lives too if— well as what it means for their own lives too. , ., ., ~' well as what it means for their own lives too. , ., ., ~ ., lives too. if if you would like to take the questions _ lives too. if if you would like to take the questions on - lives too. if if you would like to i take the questions on budgetses lives too. if if you would like to - take the questions on budgetses and attainment gaps. 50 take the questions on budgetses and attainment gaps-— attainment gaps. so what you are sa inc attainment gaps. so what you are sa in: is attainment gaps. so what you are saying is correct, _ attainment gaps. so what you are saying is correct, heads _ attainment gaps. so what you are saying is correct, heads are - attainment gaps. so what you are i saying is correct, heads are making really— saying is correct, heads are making really difficult choices, as a consequence of that.- really difficult choices, as a consequence of that. there are pressures _ consequence of that. there are pressures on — consequence of that. there are pressures on school— consequence of that. there are pressures on school budget, i consequence of that. there are - pressures on school budget, council budget eand there is pressure on the welsh government's budget, what i am trying to do as education minister is make sure that the funding i provide to schools can be used by heads in a much more flexible way, we had 26 grants or something and i have combined them into four supergrants and it is that fresh perspective we need to take more generally and that will mean that heads are able to use that money more flexibly and what that money is spent on is keeping people in work, so, but i don't for a second diminish the point you are making, there are real pressures in school budgetses and we as a government are doing everything we can. you budgetses and we as a government are doing everything we can.— doing everything we can. you commit in our doing everything we can. you commit in your manifesto _ doing everything we can. you commit in your manifesto to _ doing everything we can. you commit in your manifesto to increasing - doing everything we can. you commit in your manifesto to increasing the i in your manifesto to increasing the spend on education, which means cutting something? it is spend on education, which means cutting something?— cutting something? it is a progressive _ cutting something? it is a progressive increase - cutting something? it is a progressive increase year| cutting something? it is a i progressive increase year on cutting something? it is a - progressive increase year on year and it will mean budgets being allocated differently across departments but what we have been able to do this year, despite the reductions we have had to make is to protect the school budget. it probably doesn't feel like that if you are a head but that is what we have been ability to do it is important, we are asking schools to do more and more because they are addressing more complex needs in society so we need to increase the funding available to them over the future. �* , ., ., ~' funding available to them over the future. �* , ., ., ~ ., future. and if you would like to take the question _ future. and if you would like to take the question on _ future. and if you would like to take the question on the - future. and if you would like to - take the question on the attainment gap please. i take the question on the attainment aa- lease. .. .. gap please. i think on the attainment _ gap please. i think on the attainment gap, - gap please. i think on the attainment gap, we - gap please. i think on the attainment gap, we have| gap please. i think on the - attainment gap, we have done gap please. i think on the _ attainment gap, we have done autumn in numb— attainment gap, we have done autumn in numb of— attainment gap, we have done autumn in numb of things that have been set out about— in numb of things that have been set out about what we want to do recognise _ out about what we want to do recognise it and then to narrow up and level— recognise it and then to narrow up and level up, those people from lesser— and level up, those people from lesser advantaged groups and i am committed to carry on do thatting, what _ committed to carry on do thatting, what we _ committed to carry on do thatting, what we need to see is whether the whole _ what we need to see is whether the whole system is doing enough. as well as— whole system is doing enough. as well as those people in school look at before _ well as those people in school look at before school as well, that is why am — at before school as well, that is why am committed to looking at the first thousand days in a child's life. _ first thousand days in a child's life. when— first thousand days in a child's life, when you can make the biggest difference _ life, when you can make the biggest difference by investing early before a child _ difference by investing early before a child goes to school. you see that yourself _ a child goes to school. you see that yourself as — a child goes to school. you see that yourself as a — a child goes to school. you see that yourself as a parent. you see that reflected — yourself as a parent. you see that reflected back in your child and i know _ reflected back in your child and i know that — reflected back in your child and i know that from being in a school as a governor. — know that from being in a school as a governor, listening to children read _ a governor, listening to children read in — a governor, listening to children read in a — a governor, listening to children read in a primary school class told me lots _ read in a primary school class told me lots about the school, but that a committed — me lots about the school, but that a committed and interested adult makes a difference to how a child sees themselves and their attainment and ambition. _ themselves and their attainment and ambition, every child that— ambition, every child that class who is a strong reader had an— that class who is a strong reader had an adult listening to them. supporting people in that earlier stage _ supporting people in that earlier stage will improve outcomes for erne. _ stage will improve outcomes for erne, especially in our least advantaged community, i am passionate about it and i think it will be _ passionate about it and i think it will be make a big difference, you won't _ will be make a big difference, you won't see — will be make a big difference, you won't see that in the first two, three. — won't see that in the first two, three. four— won't see that in the first two, three, four years of people leaving school _ three, four years of people leaving school but — three, four years of people leaving school but that is an essential part of becoming the country we want to with ambition for the future. a few oints with ambition for the future. a few points from _ with ambition for the future. a few points from the _ with ambition for the future. a few points from the audience - with ambition for the future. a few points from the audience now, - with ambition for the future. 15. points from the audience now, just a point. points from the audience now, 'ust a oint. , . points from the audience now, 'ust a oint., , ., points from the audience now, 'ust a oint, . , ., ., points from the audience now, 'ust a oint., , ., ., , ., point. just one of the things that has been missed _ point. just one of the things that has been missed out _ point. just one of the things that has been missed out is - point. just one of the things that has been missed out is on - point. just one of the things that has been missed out is on the i point. just one of the things that i has been missed out is on the other side in _ has been missed out is on the other side in higher— has been missed out is on the other side in higher education, _ has been missed out is on the other side in higher education, so- side in higher education, so increasing _ side in higher education, so increasing tuition _ side in higher education, so increasing tuition fees, - side in higher education, sol increasing tuition fees, £250 side in higher education, so. increasing tuition fees, £250 a side in higher education, so- increasing tuition fees, £250 a year for undergrad — increasing tuition fees, £250 a year for undergrad watts, _ increasing tuition fees, £250 a year for undergrad watts, big _ increasing tuition fees, £250 a year for undergrad watts, big decrease i increasing tuition fees, £250 a year| for undergrad watts, big decrease in postgraduate — for undergrad watts, big decrease in postgraduate funding. _ for undergrad watts, big decrease in postgraduate funding. find - for undergrad watts, big decrease in postgraduate funding.— postgraduate funding. and the gentleman _ postgraduate funding. and the gentleman there. _ postgraduate funding. and the gentleman there. i— postgraduate funding. and the gentleman there. i am - postgraduate funding. and the gentleman there. i am a - postgraduate funding. and the gentleman there. i am a pupil| postgraduate funding. and the i gentleman there. i am a pupil at larae gentleman there. i am a pupil at large comprehensive _ gentleman there. i am a pupil at large comprehensive in - gentleman there. i am a pupil at large comprehensive in cardiff i gentleman there. i am a pupil at i large comprehensive in cardiff and our senior— large comprehensive in cardiff and our senior leadership _ large comprehensive in cardiff and our senior leadership team - large comprehensive in cardiff and our senior leadership team need i large comprehensive in cardiff and our senior leadership team need 11 million _ our senior leadership team need 11 million to— our senior leadership team need 11 million to run— our senior leadership team need 11 million to run bare _ our senior leadership team need 11 million to run bare bones - our senior leadership team need 11 million to run bare bones service, i million to run bare bones service, we are _ million to run bare bones service, we are looking _ million to run bare bones service, we are looking 10 _ million to run bare bones service, we are looking 10 million, - million to run bare bones service, we are looking 10 million, 8- million to run bare bones service, i we are looking 10 million, 8 million is going _ we are looking 10 million, 8 million is going on— we are looking 10 million, 8 million is going on wages. _ we are looking 10 million, 8 million is going on wages, we _ we are looking 10 million, 8 million is going on wages, we have - we are looking 10 million, 8 million is going on wages, we have leaking roof. _ is going on wages, we have leaking roof. windows _ is going on wages, we have leaking roof, windows from _ is going on wages, we have leaking roof, windows from the _ is going on wages, we have leaking roof, windows from the 50s - is going on wages, we have leaking roof, windows from the 50s and - is going on wages, we have leaking roof, windows from the 50s and a i roof, windows from the 50s and a clunky— roof, windows from the 50s and a clunky heating _ roof, windows from the 50s and a clunky heating system, _ roof, windows from the 50s and a clunky heating system, schools i roof, windows from the 50s and a i clunky heating system, schools are in dire _ clunky heating system, schools are in dire straits _ in dire straits. education - in dire straits. - education minister, are in dire straits. _ education minister, are you proud in dire straits. — education minister, are you proud of wales' education system? the funding we rovide wales' education system? the funding we provide to — wales' education system? the funding we provide to build _ wales' education system? the funding we provide to build and _ wales' education system? the funding we provide to build and refurbish - we provide to build and refurbish schools is unmatched in other parts of the uk. i am proud of that. i means young people are taught in more modern school, but that is not the experience of every pupil but i am proud of what we are doing as a welsh government to renew the school estate. i think what we saw recently where the raac situation has shown how important than is. gk. where the raac situation has shown how important than is.— where the raac situation has shown how important than is. ok. thank you very much- — how important than is. ok. thank you very much- sorry _ how important than is. ok. thank you very much- sorry if— how important than is. ok. thank you very much. sorry if i _ how important than is. ok. thank you very much. sorry if i didn't _ how important than is. ok. thank you very much. sorry if i didn't get - how important than is. ok. thank you very much. sorry if i didn't get to - very much. sorry if i didn't get to you, we must get the next question in and it comes another member of audience. i in and it comes another member of audience. . . . in and it comes another member of audience. ., ., ., .., audience. i am a refugee, a medical doctor from — audience. i am a refugee, a medical doctor from venezuelaia, _ audience. i am a refugee, a medical doctor from venezuelaia, i - audience. i am a refugee, a medical| doctor from venezuelaia, i represent a group _ doctor from venezuelaia, i represent a group of— doctor from venezuelaia, i represent a group of asylum—seekers _ doctor from venezuelaia, i represent a group of asylum—seekers and - a group of asylum—seekers and refugees— a group of asylum—seekers and refugees living _ a group of asylum—seekers and refugees living in _ a group of asylum—seekers and refugees living in wales, - a group of asylum—seekers and refugees living in wales, so - a group of asylum—seekers and. refugees living in wales, so first of all— refugees living in wales, so first of all while — refugees living in wales, so first of all while we _ refugees living in wales, so first of all while we express - refugees living in wales, so first of all while we express our- refugees living in wales, so first i of all while we express our cruelty toad to— of all while we express our cruelty toad to the — of all while we express our cruelty toad to the welsh _ of all while we express our cruelty toad to the welsh government - of all while we express our cruelty toad to the welsh government on| toad to the welsh government on developing — toad to the welsh government on developing the _ toad to the welsh government on developing the national— toad to the welsh government on developing the national plan, - toad to the welsh government on developing the national plan, andj toad to the welsh government on i developing the national plan, and we know that _ developing the national plan, and we know that one — developing the national plan, and we know that one of— developing the national plan, and we know that one of you _ developing the national plan, and we know that one of you is _ developing the national plan, and we know that one of you is going - developing the national plan, and we know that one of you is going to - developing the national plan, and we know that one of you is going to be l know that one of you is going to be reviewing _ know that one of you is going to be reviewing this — know that one of you is going to be reviewing this plant, _ know that one of you is going to be reviewing this plant, so— know that one of you is going to be reviewing this plant, so i— know that one of you is going to be reviewing this plant, so i like - know that one of you is going to be reviewing this plant, so i like to - reviewing this plant, so i like to know _ reviewing this plant, so i like to know how — reviewing this plant, so i like to know how you _ reviewing this plant, so i like to know how you are _ reviewing this plant, so i like to know how you are going - reviewing this plant, so i like to know how you are going to - reviewing this plant, so i like to - know how you are going to implement this policies. — know how you are going to implement this policies, and _ know how you are going to implement this policies, and better— know how you are going to implement this policies, and better the _ know how you are going to implement this policies, and better the lives - this policies, and better the lives of refugees— this policies, and better the lives of refugees and _ this policies, and better the lives of refugees and asylum—seekersl this policies, and better the lives i of refugees and asylum—seekers in order— of refugees and asylum—seekers in order to _ of refugees and asylum—seekers in order to cultivate _ of refugees and asylum—seekers in order to cultivate with _ of refugees and asylum—seekers in order to cultivate with the - of refugees and asylum—seekers in| order to cultivate with the economy of the _ order to cultivate with the economy of the country _ order to cultivate with the economy of the country i— order to cultivate with the economy of the country-— of the country. i have spoken a lot about the importance _ of the country. i have spoken a lot about the importance of _ of the country. i have spoken a lot about the importance of a - of the country. i have spoken a lot about the importance of a sense i of the country. i have spoken a lot| about the importance of a sense of belonging and i want wales to continue to be a nation of sanctuary where anybody who comes to live here, whatever the reasons, feels they belong here and i think wales is in a sense a community of community, we have seen that, we are marking the miners' strike at moment and we have seen very recently how people in wales have extend add welcome to people moving here from ukraine and your owner, experience i think sounds part of that, i am passionately committed to that, and i want to continue to make sure that people feel that wales is a welcoming outward looking nation, and a nation of sanctuary. vaughan gething, home secretary has called on wales to have more hotels and scotland, more increasing the offer force, asylum—seeker, and scotland, more increasing the offerforce, asylum—seeker, what do you say? offer force, asylum-seeker, what do ou sa ? ~ ~ i, , offer force, asylum-seeker, what do ousa? �*, you say? well, wales wouldn't be wales without _ you say? well, wales wouldn't be wales without different _ you say? well, wales wouldn't be wales without different people i you say? well, wales wouldn't be | wales without different people who have come here, made their home here and be _ have come here, made their home here and be part— have come here, made their home here and be part of— have come here, made their home here and be part of our story. my father went _ and be part of our story. my father went to _ and be part of our story. my father went to another country and met my nrother, _ went to another country and met my mother, that is why i am part of the nation's _ mother, that is why i am part of the nation's story r it is why if you took— nation's story r it is why if you took round _ nation's story r it is why if you look round cardiff, swansea, newport, _ look round cardiff, swansea, newport, every communityer look at our nhs, _ newport, every communityer look at our nhs, this is how we celebrate how we _ our nhs, this is how we celebrate how we are, — our nhs, this is how we celebrate how we are, forjames cleverly though. — how we are, forjames cleverly though, the home secretary the charge _ though, the home secretary the charge is— though, the home secretary the charge is is he prepared to work seriously— charge is is he prepared to work seriously with us to invest in communities and make sure people get the welcome they deserve from every part of— the welcome they deserve from every part of the _ the welcome they deserve from every part of the world, whether they flee here as _ part of the world, whether they flee here as refugees or asylum—seeker, think— here as refugees or asylum—seeker, think about — here as refugees or asylum—seeker, think about the people who worked atongside _ think about the people who worked alongside forces in afghanistan, think about people from ukraine, there _ think about people from ukraine, there has— think about people from ukraine, there has been a different experience for a number of those people _ experience for a number of those people think we could and should dough— people think we could and should dough better. we gain from that as a community— dough better. we gain from that as a community and economically as well. thank— community and economically as well. thank you _ community and economically as well. thank you both very much. we are coming towards the end of the debate and i wanted to move quickly from the political to the personal and maybe tell us what you admire about each other. now, vaughan gething... what is good aboutjeremy miles? i what is good aboutjeremy miles? i think he is really intelligent and he is _ think he is really intelligent and he is someone who taking, it is true, _ he is someone who taking, it is true, he — he is someone who taking, it is true, he takes a searching view... applause — applause he takes a searching view to new things— he takes a searching view to new things that come before him, that is a strength — things that come before him, that is a strength. you need that, he is realty— a strength. you need that, he is really good _ a strength. you need that, he is really good company as well. would ou rive really good company as well. would you give him — really good company as well. would you give him a _ really good company as well. would you give him ajob- _ really good company as well. would you give him ajob. i— really good company as well. would you give him ajob. i would - really good company as well. would you give him ajob. i would be - you give him a “oh. i would be delighted. — you give him ajob. i would be delighted. would _ you give him ajob. i would be delighted. would you - you give him ajob. i would be delighted. would you take - you give him ajob. i would be delighted. would you take a l you give him ajob. i would be i delighted. would you take a job? you give him ajob. i would be - delighted. would you take a job? i delighted. would you take a 'ob? i offer him a — delighted. would you take a 'ob? i offer him a job i delighted. would you take a 'ob? i offer him a job and i delighted. would you take a 'ob? i offer him a job and take h delighted. would you take a 'ob? i offer him a job and take a h delighted. would you take a job? i offer him a job and take a job. - offer him a job and take a job. there we are. applause i have so ask you jeremy miles what do you admire most ant vaughan gething? i do you admire most ant vaughan gethini ? .. do you admire most ant vaughan gethini ? ~' ., ., , . gething? i like vaughan very much and it's a great _ gething? i like vaughan very much and it's a great question _ gething? i like vaughan very much and it's a great question to - gething? i like vaughan very much and it's a great question to ask, i and it's a great question to ask, because in the context of a leadership election, we are spending all the time identifying the differences between us and there are lots of differences but at the end of the day we are both good colleagues in a government which shared values, and actually think that has come out in this campaign as well. . .. that has come out in this campaign as well. ., «i , ., that has come out in this campaign as well. . ~' , ., , that has come out in this campaign as well. ., «i i. , . that has come out in this campaign as well. . .. ,, , . ., as well. thank you very much for takini as well. thank you very much for taking that- _ taking that. applause. your final applause. yourfinal thoughts applause. your final thoughts then, you applause. yourfinal thoughts then, you have 30 seconds to answer this one, if you win, what big difference will you win, what big difference will you make to people's lives? we have tossed a coin, first up isjeremy miles. tossed a coin, first up is jeremy miles. ~ . .. tossed a coin, first up is jeremy miles. , tossed a coin, first up is jeremy miles. ., miles. we will make wales a more prosroerous — miles. we will make wales a more prosperous country, _ miles. we will make wales a more prosperous country, we _ miles. we will make wales a more prosperous country, we will - miles. we will make wales a more prosperous country, we will rise i prosperous country, we will rise living standards and drive down poverty, and if you think that wales future needs steady as she goes don't vote for me, if you think we need transformation, if you believe in making sure our economy and nation is supercharged and if you believe in the we not the i, then join me. applause thank you very much. vaughan gething. i thank you very much. vaughan gething. thank you very much. than gethini. ., , .,, thank you very much. than gethini. ., , ., vaughan gething. i want people to feel ho he vaughan gething. i want people to feel hope for— vaughan gething. i want people to feel hope for the _ vaughan gething. i want people to feel hope for the future. _ vaughan gething. i want people to feel hope for the future. for- vaughan gething. i want people to feel hope for the future. for our. feel hope for the future. for our country's — feel hope for the future. for our country's future. i believe that together, _ country's future. i believe that together, we can build a wales where everyone _ together, we can build a wales where everyone does have the opportunity to succeed — everyone does have the opportunity to succeed. no matter where you are from, _ to succeed. no matter where you are from. no _ to succeed. no matter where you are from, no matter what you look like, i from, no matter what you look like, i want _ from, no matter what you look like, i want wates — from, no matter what you look like, i want wales to be a country with hope. _ i want wales to be a country with hope. and — i want wales to be a country with hope, and ambition. a wales that we can create _ hope, and ambition. a wales that we can create that is confident, prosperous and fairer. that is what i prosperous and fairer. that is what i offer. _ prosperous and fairer. that is what ioffer. that— prosperous and fairer. that is what i offer, that is what i ask you to vote _ i offer, that is what i ask you to vote for — vote for. vaughan gething. thank voie for. — vaughan gething. thank you very much. applause. hands is it. the winner of the leadership contest will be announced on saturday march 16th. put it in your diary know, the discussion continues live now on bbc radio wales, with james williams and his guests bringing you the reaction to what we have heard. thanks to the candidates jeremy what we have heard. thanks to the candidatesjeremy miles and vaughan gething, to our studio audience and of course, to you for watching and for listening at home. thanks for your company. nos da. good night. applause at ten — extraordinary scenes tonight as parliament descended into chaos. mps walked out in protest over a vote on whether to call for a ceasefire in gaza — and the speaker had to apologise i regret how it has ended up. it was not my intention. the speaker now has to regain the trust of the house of commons, and he has promised to speak to party leaders about what happens next. after israeli special forces rescue two hostages in gaza last week, fergal keane investigates what happened in the aftermath. i have had so many wonderful messages and cards. ican imagine. they reduce me to tears most of the time. king charles thanks the country for the support since his cancer diagnosis. what now for old trafford? the new co—owner of manchester united suggests there could be a new stadium for the club.

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