shut by the pandemic, donna langley made a single bold move that transformed her industry — allowing audiences to stream brand—new movies at home. donna langley, welcome to the media show. thank you. we met earlier this year when you very kindly hosted a load ofjournalists at a lovely, swanky london hotel on the day you were made a dame. and you then left that party and went off for a dinner which you were hosting — and the papers were full of it the next day, that you had hosted, amongst other people, tom cruise. i mean, in a sense, that sums up your pulling power — that tom cruise was happy to hotfoot across london to meet you. if you say so. i do say so. at least that's what it looks like to me. i mean, there have been reports that universal and tom cruise are going to collaborate together on a $200 million space adventure, shot on the international space station. are you taking tom cruise to space? i think tom cruise is taking us to space. he's taking the world to space. but yeah, that's the plan. we have a great project in development with tom that does contemplate him doing just that — taking a rocket up to the space station, and shooting, and hopefully being the first civilian to do a spacewalk outside of the space station. now, i don't know the film will cost $200 million, we haven't got that far yet... presumably a bit more, going to space. i mean, how did that conversation go? he comes to you, or his people come to you and say, "i want to do this." it was tom directly, and he collaborates very closely with a director called doug liman. and during the pandemic, he asked for a zoom call with us and got onto the call, and said, "guys, i've got this great project, and here it is." so the majority of the story actually takes place on earth, and then, the character needs to go up to space to save the day. wow — i mean, ithink that is just a big "wow", right? i think so. i mean, it's worth reflecting — tom cruise isjust one of the big names that you work with. you know, you've wooed the likes of steven spielberg, christopher nolan, they've both got films under way at universal. how do you attract those big names, what are you saying to those directors? well, steven has a long history with universal, obviously, and he did go and make films for other studios. and as a director, he works all over town. but his spiritual home is at universal — it's where he made his first movie, jaws, of course. and so, you know, when steven wants to make a movie with us, we're just thrilled and ecstatic that that's the case. does he have free reign? i mean, do you have to say to him, "hm, maybe three—and—a—half hours is a bit long — cut it a bit." or do you just let him do what he wants? that's not necessary with steven. no, he knows what the audience wants, and he'll give it to them. fantastic. you are also known for risk—taking — whether that is backing a new up—and—coming director, likejordan peele, to make get out, or being the first major studio to make a gay rom—com, bros — which is coming out in the uk soon and is fantastic. early on in your career, you also persuaded universal to back mamma mia, where many didn't see the hit it was going to be. and the film, of course, went on to make hundreds of millions of dollars. what gives you the self—belief to think — sometimes, presumably to be the only person in the room fighting for something? what gives you that self—belief? and do you think you have to be a bit of an outsider to push films that others don't see the power of? i think, i mean, it is a lot of gut instinct, you know, what we do. you can make something, you know, you can rationalise something through a business—model lens. but really, it is about feeling the story on a very human level and on a universal level — pardon the pun. and in the case of mamma mia, i grew up listening to abba. i loved abba, they were my favourite band, actually. but beyond that, and beyond just my own likes and dislikes, it really is about asking, "well, why is abba so enduring? why is that music so enduring? what does it tap into, in terms of the human psyche and experience? " and if you can tap into that relatability and universality, then the chances are that'll be something that's appealing to a lot of people. but others didn't see that? 0thers didn't see that. but i think in the case of some of these films, whether it was mamma mia or straight 0utta compton, or others that we could talk about, they're films that i did not see as inherently risky. and i know that's easy for me to sit here with you today and say that when the proof is in the pudding. but again, they sort of checked the boxes in terms of that relatability and universality. fair enough. i mean, let's go back to the beginning right now. you were born in the uk — which is very exciting to us, of course, because you're now the first british woman to run a studio. but you were born in the uk, your birth father was of egyptian heritage. you were adopted, grew up on the isle of wight. how did that influence your sense of self? i mean, iwonder, the 1970s, the isle of wight, you probably weren't seeing yourself reflected back in many of the people on the island. no, i think i was what they would describe as "exotic". and so, yeah, you know, i think it gave me a great sense of independence. and, you know, i was bullied a little bit in school, as well, so i had to really tough it out and stick up for myself. ifound humour and comedy as a great buffer, and a great, you know, a great antidote to some of those tougher moments. you know, if you could make something laugh or somebody laugh, it would generally defuse the situation. i think that probably is reflected in a lot of the comedies that we make here at universal. but, yeah, i think also, you know, just growing up in a small place like that where, you know, as kids, we could be kids, we could wander the beaches and over the hills and the downs, and my imagination would just run wild with the history of the place — whether it was smugglers or aristocracy. and it was just a wonderfully free place to grow up. were you into cinema, do you remember going to the movies? do you remember the first film you saw, or was it more about storytelling? it was much more about storytelling, i think. i think we all know, as brits, we grow up with a deep love of literature, and english literature in particular. but, no, i think my first film experience in the movie theatre was fantasia, which was terrifying. but to go back to abba, one of my favourite early experiences watching a movie was my sister took me to see the film that lasse hallstrom directed, called abba arrival. and it was a concert film, and it was, you know, however long it was, but it was, say, 90 minutes of heaven. i was so happy and excited. but i bet you never thought about then, "i'm going to be making movies"? no, absolutely not. your mother, i think, was an activist for greenpeace. did that make you want to change the world? did her activism infuse you, do you think? you know, now i get to look back on it, and i do think so. i mean, when she had me shaking a can on behalf of greenpeace, or cnd up in the local high street, it was deeply embarrassing, you know, at 12 years of age. but looking back on it, i do actually give her a tonne of credit. you know, she was a vegetarian before it was popular to be so, she was into all kinds of things that really made the world a better place. she was thinking about the environment and environmental issues. she was involved with international help for children — we fostered children growing up. so i think the things that were on her mind and the things that she instilled in us as children, you know, were to think outside of yourself, just understand that the world is bigger than your own experience — and whatever one can do to make that a better place is a good thing to do. ok, so cut forward — you arrive in la with a letter of introduction, i think, to a literary agency. you end up with a job in the movie business. did you feel you needed to leave the uk to make a success of yourself? yes. why was that? i don't know. i mean, honestly, i knew i needed to leave the isle of wight, but then i found myself in london. and i don't know if it was the time — when i left college, margaret thatcher was on her way out. it was before tony blair, before the era of some prosperity. and i just didn't see a future for myself. i didn't know what to do. and i did have friends who were in the media business at that time, and i thought it was very intriguing, but i had absolutely no idea how to make an entree into that place. and when i had the opportunity to come to los angeles — and i saw that it's a very different culture, you know, it's certainly about who do you know, but it's also about how hard are you willing to work? and if you have that strong work ethic, then you can really forge a path for yourself. and that's what really attracted to me, i think, early on. it's interesting. i mean, you were made a dame in 2020, as i said. at the time, your parents told the isle of wight county press, "to us, she is and always has been just our loving girl who's made the big time by personal honesty and endeavour in a world dominated by powerful male entities." i mean, as a brit, a woman, a person of colour, how did people treat you at the very beginning when you came here? well, i think because of my english accent, people thought that they had to actually treat me with more respect than i probably deserved back then, as a young whippersnapper. but, no, i mean, look, this is a very competitive industry and environment. and so, you know, it's not for the faint of heart, right? so, you know, i learned early on you had to have some chutzpah to make it. i mean, they talk about powerful male entities — it was clearly a very different time, so much has come out since, not least about harvey weinstein, who's about to go on trial here in la. i mean, how bad was it back then for a young woman like you in the movie business? you know, i'm fortunate to have never experienced that kind of behaviour first—hand. but, you know, i think a lot of the revelations that have come out in the last 4—5 years have just shown us just how bad it was, you know, that we were in an environment thatjust tended to turn a blind eye to certain toxic behaviour. so i think it's great that now there's a very bright light shone on that, and i do think that the culture has shifted, and will continue to shift. did you ever come across him? i mean, you must�*ve done in yourjob, i suppose. but were you ever aware of anything that was going on? no, absolutely not. i mean, when that new york times article broke, it was a shock to most of us, really. because you're making a film, she said, which is about to come out about exactly that. i think he even tried to suggest that that was going to prejudice his trial, and the judge threw that out and said, "no, you can still go on trial here in la." yeah, yeah. does that feel like — i mean, i know you're obviously very behind she said, because you've commissioned it — but did that does that feel like a really appropriate moment to, you know, make this film and, kind of, let people have a final say about what happened? i do, the film is incredibly powerful. i mean, you know, the article was powerful, the book was powerful, and the film, i think, is a really nice addition and a way for people to interact with the story. and look, it's about heroism across the board, both from a journalistic standpoint, and also on behalf of the survivors who came forward. and you mentioned another film that you backed early on, straight 0utta compton, which was hailed as a surprise hit — i'm sure you weren't surprised by that. but have you always been driven by the desire to improve representation, whether that's around women or people of diverse backgrounds? yeah, and again, you know, i did it innately, really, you know, back early in my career, i worked for a studio called new line, and i was trained to find stories and make films that were aimed at a specific audience, primarily so we knew who to market to — so when we were spending those marketing dollars, we knew who to target. but what i learned back then is that, you know, appealing to particularly underserved audiences — whether it be women or people of colour — it's good business. you know, you could really excite an audience by making, by telling stories like that and making films like that. but movie studios weren't doing it? no, they weren't doing it, they weren't doing it. but again, i sort of look back to those early days at new line as a training ground for me to just sort of gain an understanding and a perspective, that films like that can really work. they might not be the big blockbusters that travel all around the world and get everybody to show up and see them. but they're still good business. you know, if they're priced appropriately, the amount of money they make is relative to what they cost, right? so they're hugely profitable. and we've done very well with them. and you clearly have had huge success, a load of hits. what about mistakes? what's your worst mistake, what's your biggest flop? how do you learn from those experiences? yeah, there's been a few of them, honestly. there have been a few movies... cats ? cats, we can, yeah — too soon, too soon. sorry — meow! i mean, we can use that one as an example, certainly. cats was a risky movie, and we knew going in it was risky, but we believed in the director — and still believe in the director, tom hooper we had a huge hit with him, with les mis. and the musical, of course, it was definitely a marmite kind of musical. it wasn't for everybody, it was polarising. but i think that one was a case, you know, when you have a movie that doesn't work, it's inevitably going to happen. you know, this is an industry that most corporate people think is not really a business, because there are just so many variables, and it's a miracle that any movie ends up being successful, really, because of all of the myriad of things that go into making it and making it a success... but when it's not, it's hundreds of millions of dollars potentially, or certainly tens of millions. how do you pick yourself up from that? well, you have to, you know, and you hopefully are more right than you're wrong — which has fortunately been the case. presuming if you're not, you get sacked? exactly, exactly. you're still here so that proves that you're more right than wrong. but no, really, it is about the analysis afterwards. you have to be really honest with yourself about why something didn't work, and you have to go all the way along the decision—making tree and, you know, really interrogate, "where did we take the misstep there?" and i think that's very healthy for an organisation to do that. i think oftentimes, it's easy to celebrate the wins and a lot harder to get self—reflected as a culture and as an organisation, as to how we got there. and as the leader, it's also really important, i think, to be accountable, you know, and just lead by that example because, you know, the buck stops at the top. absolutely. i mean, if we turn to the future of cinema, you know, it is so uncertain at the moment — you know, there's the fallout from the pandemic shutdown, which still looms obviously very large, there's a cost of living crisis going on, and, of course, the streamers who are continuing to have a dramatic impact on how we consume movies. how worried are you that cinemas will close if people don't use them? yeah, i don't think — i'm not worried. my existential threat is not that cinemas will close 100%, and no—one will ever go to a movie theatre ever again. how much the business ultimately declines, with all the headwinds that you just described, is really the central question. at the moment, where the industry is about 30% down versus 2019 — which is a significant amount. and also, what we're seeing is — and this was a trend before the pandemic, but it's even more exaggerated now as people have got used to streaming — the kinds of movies that are working in movie theatres are more and more specific. we know that the movie theatres are the domain of the big visual—effects movies likejurassic world or the superhero movies from marvel and dc. but what else can we entice audiences to come and see at the movie theatre? and so, you know, that's the $100 billion question. but i guess, do you have a use—it—or—lose—it message for people watching this, listening to this? i do. i think we all have to remember, you know, that the activity or the joy of going to a movie theatre and seeing a movie in a movie theatre with an audience, with your popcorn is immense, and it's something that's really baked into our dna, i think. storytelling is in all of us — and what better way to engage with a story? and i also don't think that, you know, it has to be binary — we can enjoy things at home on streaming, of course, i love to sit down and put my feet up with a glass of wine and watch a great tv show, or even a great movie. but in order to make movies matter and to make them connect with the cultural zeitgeist, and to create movie stars and to create directors and careers, it really does need that... it needs that theatrical experience, really, in order to do that. or, at least, that's what we've seen so far. and, of course, i mentioned streaming — you took this bold decision back in 2020, when the cinemas were closed during the pandemic, to axe that traditional long window between films being released in cinemas and coming into the home. and you allowed audiences to stream immediately, kicking off with the new trolls movie. i mean, that looks like a really obvious move in hindsight, but did it feel obvious at the time? oh, my goodness! i mean, it was obvious that it needed to happen, as the pandemic, the tsunami was about to hit us. we were all going home, and we knew that that film was going to be a dead asset if we didn't do something with it. but it was, of course, a watershed moment between the studios and exhibition. but presumably, some people looked at that and thought, "it's over, cinema business is over now." because once you axe that window, once people canjust watch at home, are they ever going to go back to the cinema? and it seems like a lot of them aren't. yeah, i mean, certainly we are — again, we're seeing consumer behaviour shifting and changing. but i think we're beginning to see a little bit of a settling of some of those more extreme trends. you know, certainly during covid, it was very easy to say, "streaming is up, movie theatres are going down," because all the movie theatres were closed. but next year, we're going to see more movies in the movie theatres than we did this year. so i think, as we edge along the continuum of the covid recovery, we're going to continue to see the story of cinema evolve. but the very fact of you deciding, "i'm going to put "things on our streaming platform quicker," it is heralding the demise of cinema. yeah, and i think the bar is getting higherforfilms that go into the movie theatres. you know, it would be easy to say, "we're only "going to put the good ones in there or the ones "that the audience wants to see." but i think we have to stay very close to the market trends, very close to the audience to really understand, you know, what is the thing going to be that'll get them into the movie theatres? and is it somebody like christopher nolan, for example, who, you know, he's left warner brothers for you, that was a great woo on your part to get him over, after all those decades that he spent with warner brothers — he definitely isn't going to accept that you put his movie on a streaming platform any time soon. are there some directors for whom, you know, streaming will never be the answer? absolutely, and this is actually the thing, you know, we've got to give the audience credit for being very savvy about where to find their content and how to consume it. and, as is the case with christopher nolan in particular, i think his audience knows that they're going to get to see his movie on the big screen, in imax, preferably, with the great surround sound. and that's why he makes his movies. you know, i think a slightly different case, but we saw it this year from paramount with top gun — that film wasn't available anywhere until after 120 days of release. and so, the audience just kept going and going and going. and we are beginning to see that a little bit, that the audience kind of knows the difference between something that is very much intended to be a theatrical experience, and something that's not. and just as we come to the end, you know, it's always good to talk to people who are in the know, like you, about the future. but, clearly you have driven a lot of change through your career — whether that's for people of colour and other underserved audiences, women — what are your predictions now about what needs to change next? does it feel like we're on the right path? i think, culturally, we are on the right path as an industry. certainly, i think a lot of the changes that have transpired — and i can speak really specifically about my own company. first of all, our younger workforce are holding us accountable. we're holding ourselves accountable. and we've seen, you know, when you put positive change into action and you become very intentional about workplace culture, it makes a positive difference. you know, the sort of level of loyalty to the company or enjoyment of working at the company really goes up. so that's one area of change i see. again, as we just talked about, i think in terms of how people are getting their content, how they're consuming it, that'll continue to evolve and shift, and change, as well. but i think at the end of the day, movies are movies, and they're made in all different shapes and sizes. and we make movies for a global audience, and we're going to continue to do that. and what about, for you, is there a film that you'd absolutely love to make? a passion project that you haven't done yet, an actor that you'd love to work with, or a director that you haven't yet? what are your plans, what are you plotting? what am i plotting? well, i mean, honestly, you know, i couldn't be happier about the directors that we're in business with at the moment. i think that we have been able to attract the best and the brightest — and when i look around the studio, and i think about being in business with directors who really are all about the audience and that theatrical experience — so whether that's christopher nolan, the daniels, who directed everything everywhere all at 0nce, jordan peele, m night shyamalan, you know, being in business with producers like jason blum, who are making great horror fare that audiences enjoy all the time, everywhere. i honestly actually don't feel like we want for anything just yet, but always looking out for what's the next thing and who's the next person coming along. and your predictions — last question from me — you know, your predictions for the future? what will the movie business look like in 15—20 years�* time? will you still be running universal? 0h, probably not — no, definitely not. at that point — talk about the next generation, that will be the time for them to tell their stories. but, no, look, again, i think we might see more consolidation amongst the studios. you know, we're a 100—year—old business, and it would be nice to think that it could continue another 100 years. but i think, again, with technology—enabled distribution mechanisms, that'll probably change quite a bit. but no, i mean, i think that, yeah... hollywood will still be here? i really believe that hollywood will still be here. 0k, well, we'll look forward to that. donna langley, thank you so much. thank you so much, pleasure. sunday was a tale of two halves, weatherwise. we had nearly 19 degrees and nine hours of sunshine in southern and eastern areas, but we had heavy rain and strong winds in northern ireland and scotland. places like tyndrum and stirlingshire another a0 millimetres or so of rain, adding to what has been a very wet first week of october. that's not far away, about three quarters of the average 0ctober rainfall. that rain still heading its way southwards. it'll drag its heels before clearing southern and eastern areas. so much milder here overnight. a bit of mistiness ahead of it. chillier to end the night for the north, and still windy! those winds buffeting the northern isles and far north of scotland in particular, that rain giving a lot of spray and standing water on the roads as it continues itsjourney southwards and eastwards, particularly on the faster routes. once it clears away, it is a day of sunny spells and showers but much brighter for scotland and northern ireland. still quite a rash of showers for the north and west but not many reaching east of the grampians or central lowlands and again eastern parts of northern ireland, not many across england and wales. temperatures will be a degree or two down because the winds are coming from the north—west instead. but the winds fall a little lighter as we go through monday evening and overnight. we may pick up more cloud towards the north and west but it's not gonna stop our temperatures falling much and it looks like a chilly night. quite widely, touch of grass frost could be close to freezing in some rural parts of england and wales in particular. and with a ridge of high pressure overhead here as well, there is more likely to be some mist and fog issues, and at this time of year, without that strength in the sunshine, they can linger till mid morning and cause hazards on the roads. but otherwise lots of dry and bright weather, plenty more sunshine but more cloud in the sky. for scotland and northern ireland, some drizzly rain later in the day, particularly to the north and west. that takes shape through the night tuesday and into wednesday. not of england and wales again, a few issues with mist and fog, quite chilly in rural parts, much milder with that cloud and rain further north which will then meander its way southwards during the day on wednesday. but towards the atlantic some uncertainty as to where the next batch of wind and rain is going to go but it looks like southern areas could see significant rain and then some strong winds, even some gails and more rain for the northern half of the country on friday. so it looks more unsettled laterfrom midweek on, really. sorry — meow! welcome to bbc news, i'm david eades. our top stories: president putin blames ukraine for what he calls a �*terrorist attack�* on a key bridge linking russia to crimea. translation: there is no doubt that this is an of terrorism, - aimed at destroying russia�*s critically important civilian infrastructure. no end to the protests across iran in defiance of violent repression by the security forces. the faces of the ten victims of an explosion in county donegal in ireland, they include two teenagers and a five—year—old girl. taiwan prepares to celebrate its national day, but it�*s in the shadow of growing economic and military threats from china.