not, on the money, albeit less of it? last year you may remember that the governor of the bank of england andrew bailey told you not to ask for big pay rises to stop prices rising out of control. they are perhaps not so much happened as of doom and bust but of truth. they worried about and in inflationary spiral where prices push inflation out of control and uk inflation of course running around 10%, food inflation much higher than that, thatis inflation much higher than that, that is around 17%, 18%. of course workers across the public sector right now are involved in industrial action over pay rises. so is mr pill right? do wejust action over pay rises. so is mr pill right? do we just need to get used to being poorer? do you accept being poorer? let's talk. get in touch. and here is the news. the government says that over 200 british nationals have been airlifted out of sudan so far. three raf planes have already touched down in cyprus and more are expected to follow. evacuees are set to board the first flight from larnaca to london later this morning. mps will debate the illegal migration bill later. one of the most contentious parts of the legislation is a provision allowing children to be detained. the home secretary told the bbc that the bill creates a strong element of deterrent around illegal arrivals. no schools —— most schools in northern ireland are close today because of teacher strike. five teaching unions which staged a previous walk—out in february over pgy- previous walk—out in february over pay. in 1500 items that belonged to freddie mercury are set to be item. it includes the handwritten lyrics to we are the champions 08085 909 693 and a moustache comb. so huw pill maybe there is more than a grain of truth, the whole entire harvest of truth in this and the fact is what he said has a lot of truth in it but he didn't say very well. he had his hobnail boot song rather than his sleek city slicker loafers. he is the chief economist at the bank of england and he has urged people to stop trying to keep up urged people to stop trying to keep up with the spiralling cost of living and accept that they are worse off. and this is interesting, he compared raising wages and prices in response to high inflation as a game of pass the parcel, where each player is unwilling to accept the burden of higher prices and they pass it on and they pass it on and they pass it on and there is your spiral. and he's criticising businesses too in all this. does he have a point? we have lived so well, so long, as a poet once said. low inflation rates, is it a case of it is so over? rich coming from him, you might say, and indeed andrew bailey, the governor of the bank of england. with reminding ourselves what he said. he told workers, he told you, not to ask for a pay rise told you, not to ask for a pay rise to keep up with inflation. so if you run a business, if you are negotiating wage rises and were feeling the pinch or maybe if you are on strike thinking to go on strike, prosperity is history, austerity normality, is thatjust a fact of life? or is it something with which you will not put up with? one prime minister said you never had it so good, right now a lot of you will never have had it so bad. what do you think? 08085 909 693, text us on 85058. thomas, fund manager, you're missing the valves out. it manager, you're missing the valves out. , �* , manager, you're missing the valves out. , ~ , , ., ., out. it is aberdeen, yeah, without the vowels- _ out. it is aberdeen, yeah, without the vowels. irritable _ out. it is aberdeen, yeah, without the vowels. irritable bowel... - the vowels. irritable bowel... director of — the vowels. irritable bowel... director of tax _ the vowels. irritable bowel... director of tax research. - the vowels. irritable bowel... director of tax research. are | the vowels. irritable bowel... i director of tax research. are you all right, richard? are you there, richard? can we speak to, richard? you have got me, sorry. i have been sitting waiting for the programme to start, nikki. that is my apology. lee in caterham.— lee in caterham. hello, lee. morning- _ lee in caterham. hello, lee. morning. what _ lee in caterham. hello, lee. morning. what you _ lee in caterham. hello, lee. morning. what you think - lee in caterham. hello, lee. morning. what you think of l lee in caterham. hello, lee. - morning. what you think of this? the chief economist _ morning. what you think of this? the chief economist of _ morning. what you think of this? the chief economist of the _ morning. what you think of this? the chief economist of the bank - morning. what you think of this? the chief economist of the bank of - chief economist of the bank of england, we need to accept the fact that we are just poorer morning, thomas, i know you from the past but thatis thomas, i know you from the past but that is a coincidence. what thank you for calling us. you that is a coincidence. what thank you for calling us.— you for calling us. you are reuniting _ you for calling us. you are reuniting all— you for calling us. you are reuniting all these - you for calling us. you are reuniting all these people | you for calling us. you are - reuniting all these people without you knowing it! | reuniting all these people without you knowing it!— reuniting all these people without you knowing it! i am close to tears! seriousl , you knowing it! i am close to tears! seriously. does _ you knowing it! i am close to tears! seriously, does he _ you knowing it! i am close to tears! seriously, does he have _ you knowing it! i am close to tears! seriously, does he have a - you knowing it! i am close to tears! seriously, does he have a point? it| seriously, does he have a point? it is clear that this particular comment that has been picked up looks_ comment that has been picked up looks like — comment that has been picked up looks like quite an insensitive comment_ looks like quite an insensitive comment shall we say. but dealing with the _ comment shall we say. but dealing with the fundamentals, my point is that actually the message that we are poorer as a country than perhaps we used _ are poorer as a country than perhaps we used to— are poorer as a country than perhaps we used to be all like to think we are i_ we used to be all like to think we are i think— we used to be all like to think we are i think is correct. and it is because — are i think is correct. and it is because two fundamental things have happened _ because two fundamental things have happened over the last, particularly in the _ happened over the last, particularly in the covid period and afterwards with ukraine. it has been going on for some _ with ukraine. it has been going on for some time and that is first of all the _ for some time and that is first of all the terms of trade, they say we have _ all the terms of trade, they say we have to _ all the terms of trade, they say we have to pay— all the terms of trade, they say we have to pay a lot more for our imports — have to pay a lot more for our imports and we get for our exports. in imports and we get for our exports. in the _ imports and we get for our exports. in the second thing is the era of ultralow— in the second thing is the era of ultralow interest rates is over and clearly _ ultralow interest rates is over and clearly we — ultralow interest rates is over and clearly we are reaching some sort of limit on _ clearly we are reaching some sort of limit on how— clearly we are reaching some sort of limit on how much we can keep borrowing — limit on how much we can keep borrowing as a country. interest rates _ borrowing as a country. interest rates are — borrowing as a country. interest rates are higher and there are concerns— rates are higher and there are concerns about the uk's ability to keep— concerns about the uk's ability to keep funding by borrowing. now all that means is we basically, you know. — that means is we basically, you know, don't have, in real terms, the spending _ know, don't have, in real terms, the spending power that we used to. i mean, _ spending power that we used to. i mean. i_ spending power that we used to. i mean, i tried to explain it and sorry— mean, i tried to explain it and sorry if— mean, i tried to explain it and sorry if i— mean, i tried to explain it and sorry if i sound a bit trite in trying — sorry if i sound a bit trite in trying to— sorry if i sound a bit trite in trying to do an insensitive, it is like saying _ trying to do an insensitive, it is like saying we used to have ten suites — like saying we used to have ten suites to — like saying we used to have ten suites to share amongst it between us every— suites to share amongst it between us every day and now we have nine and that— us every day and now we have nine and that is— us every day and now we have nine and that isjust a reality. we can print— and that isjust a reality. we can print more — and that isjust a reality. we can print more money and although sorts of things— print more money and although sorts of things but it willjust put prices _ of things but it willjust put prices up. so in real terms we are uooren _ prices up. so in real terms we are uooren the — prices up. so in real terms we are poorer. the real issue therefore is really— poorer. the real issue therefore is really one — poorer. the real issue therefore is really one about having a discussion about _ really one about having a discussion about distribution of nine and who needs— about distribution of nine and who needs to — about distribution of nine and who needs to have given up some of what they have _ needs to have given up some of what they have before. that needs to have given up some of what they have before.— they have before. that is a political — they have before. that is a political decision. - they have before. that is a political decision. i- they have before. that is a political decision. i mean, | they have before. that is a| political decision. i mean, i they have before. that is a - political decision. i mean, ithink we do need _ political decision. i mean, ithink we do need to — political decision. i mean, ithink we do need to address _ political decision. i mean, ithink we do need to address those - political decision. i mean, ithink. we do need to address those issues in an— we do need to address those issues in an adult— we do need to address those issues in an adult sort of way. and obviously— in an adult sort of way. and obviously the way it is being addressed at the moment is by various— addressed at the moment is by various groups going on strike are looking _ various groups going on strike are looking for— various groups going on strike are looking for big pay rises and that sort of— looking for big pay rises and that sort of thing, looking after themselves. as i say, i think the fundamental point that we are poorer as a country— fundamental point that we are poorer as a country than we used to be all thought— as a country than we used to be all thought we — as a country than we used to be all thought we were i think is absolutely correct.- thought we were i think is absolutely correct. yeah, let me brina in absolutely correct. yeah, let me bring in a _ absolutely correct. yeah, let me bring in a couple _ absolutely correct. yeah, let me bring in a couple of _ absolutely correct. yeah, let me bring in a couple of things - absolutely correct. yeah, let me bring in a couple of things he - absolutely correct. yeah, let me l bring in a couple of things he said. essentially the days of wine and roses are long gone. he was speaking to a podcast by columbia law school and people will be rushing to listen to it. this is what he said, he said when your energy bill that you get every month at your house goes up four or five times that is eating into your income. what is the natural thing to do? well, the natural thing to do? well, the natural thing to do? well, the natural thing to do is to say i need to be paid more but then of course that process is ultimately self—defeating. and something you said earlier on, lee, about imports and exports. using gas prices as an example he said this, he said that while the gas by bias has become more expensive since that russia's invasion of ukraine, what the country sells has not. i'm going to put this to thomas as well and richard you can come in. everybody is welcome, you know the numbers. 08085 909 693, 85058. taking his lack of tact, perhaps. his size 12 shoes or whatever it is. does he have a point, thomas? this shoes or whatever it is. does he have a point, thomas?- have a point, thomas? this is a roblem have a point, thomas? this is a problem which _ have a point, thomas? this is a problem which is _ have a point, thomas? this is a problem which is that _ have a point, thomas? this is a problem which is that it - have a point, thomas? this is a problem which is that it is - problem which is that it is a collective issue this. wages need to go collective issue this. wages need to 9° up collective issue this. wages need to go up at the individual level in order to compensate for the loss of earnings, of real earnings that we have got. the disposable income is felt very personally, isn't it? but he is talking here about the collective issue which is who is going to share the burden in getting inflation down? and this is the issue, the issue between collectives here as a nation, how we are going to deal with it, and then individually. the way in which he has expressed this sentiment hasn't gone down well. and i think it was specifically these words need to accept. this is a red rag to the ball. but you can see that underlying all of this, he has got a point, which is as long as inflation stays high, we are going to demand higher wages. and as long as we demand higher wages inflation is going to stay high. that demand higher wages inflation is going to stay high.— going to stay high. that is the asta going to stay high. that is the pasta battle — going to stay high. that is the pasta battle is _ going to stay high. that is the pasta battle is talking - going to stay high. that is the pasta battle is talking about, | going to stay high. that is the - pasta battle is talking about, isn't it? ~ , pasta battle is talking about, isn't it? �* , so pasta battle is talking about, isn't it?_ so there - pasta battle is talking about, isn't it?_ so there is - pasta battle is talking about, isn't it?_ so there is a - pasta battle is talking about, isn'tl it?_ so there is a kernel it? absolutely. so there is a kernel of truth in that, _ it? absolutely. so there is a kernel of truth in that, richard. _ it? absolutely. so there is a kernel of truth in that, richard. it - it? absolutely. so there is a kernel of truth in that, richard. it is - it? absolutely. so there is a kernel of truth in that, richard. it is not i of truth in that, richard. it is not riaht of truth in that, richard. it is not ri . ht and of truth in that, richard. it is not right and it _ of truth in that, richard. it is not right and it is _ of truth in that, richard. it is not right and it is completely - of truth in that, richard. it is not right and it is completely wrong. | right and it is completely wrong. the reason — right and it is completely wrong. the reason why this country is poorer— the reason why this country is poorer now. let's talk about why this country is poorer now. first of all, this country is poorer now. first of all. it— this country is poorer now. first of all. it has— this country is poorer now. first of all. it has to — this country is poorer now. first of all, it has to be put on the table, brexit that— all, it has to be put on the table, brexit. that is the reason why our balance _ brexit. that is the reason why our balance of— brexit. that is the reason why our balance of trade has got worse. the pound _ balance of trade has got worse. the pound has— balance of trade has got worse. the pound has fallen dramatically, over 20%~ _ pound has fallen dramatically, over 2096. ., ,., pound has fallen dramatically, over 2096. ., ., ., ., pound has fallen dramatically, over 2096, ., ., ., ., one 2096. the reason for one reason? one reason why — 2096. the reason for one reason? one reason why we — 2096. the reason for one reason? one reason why we have _ 2096. the reason for one reason? one reason why we have worse _ 2096. the reason for one reason? one reason why we have worse terms - 2096. the reason for one reason? one reason why we have worse terms of i reason why we have worse terms of trader _ reason why we have worse terms of trade, mostly. and by far the biggest — trade, mostly. and by far the biggest part of it is the biggest issue _ biggest part of it is the biggest issue around food for example because — issue around food for example because clearly european continental suppiiers— because clearly european continental suppliers do not want to send food to the _ suppliers do not want to send food to the uk— suppliers do not want to send food to the uk because it is simply too difficult, — to the uk because it is simply too difficult, too burdensome, too costly— difficult, too burdensome, too costly to — difficult, too burdensome, too costly to get through the ports. that is— costly to get through the ports. that is a — costly to get through the ports. that is a massive issue but secondly there _ that is a massive issue but secondly there is— that is a massive issue but secondly there is a _ that is a massive issue but secondly there is a simple fact we have had two other— there is a simple fact we have had two other deliberate policies in place — two other deliberate policies in place. one is austerity, we have had it since _ place. one is austerity, we have had it since 2010 — place. one is austerity, we have had it since 2010. an austerity is a deliberate _ it since 2010. an austerity is a deliberate policy by the government to reduce _ deliberate policy by the government to reduce the income of the country, that is— to reduce the income of the country, that is what— to reduce the income of the country, that is what it means. quite literatiy— that is what it means. quite literally the government will not spend _ literally the government will not spend and what the government spends is part— spend and what the government spends is part of— spend and what the government spends is part of our— spend and what the government spends is part of our national income. and it has— is part of our national income. and it has deliberately crushed its contribution. but by crushing its contribution. but by crushing its contribution to our national income it has— contribution to our national income it has reduced the amount that everybody else has had to spend and therefore _ everybody else has had to spend and therefore crush their contribution as welt — therefore crush their contribution as well. and then there is the policy— as well. and then there is the policy of— as well. and then there is the policy of the bank of england. let's be clear. _ policy of the bank of england. let's be clear, huw pill and andrew bailey are both _ be clear, huw pill and andrew bailey are both saying that we must accept that day, _ are both saying that we must accept that day, non—elected politicians, bureaucrats, incredibly well paid bureaucrats, incredibly well paid bureaucrats, andrew bailey on over £500,000 — bureaucrats, andrew bailey on over £500,000 a year, have the right to choose _ £500,000 a year, have the right to choose to _ £500,000 a year, have the right to choose to cut our incomes by ink interest— choose to cut our incomes by ink interest rates. it is entirely untrue _ interest rates. it is entirely untrue that we have entered the era of low— untrue that we have entered the era of low interest rates. it is a stupid _ of low interest rates. it is a stupid political choice, it does not control— stupid political choice, it does not control inflation. because you can't control— control inflation. because you can't control the — control inflation. because you can't control the price of oil and gas coming — control the price of oil and gas coming out of russia by changing the interest— coming out of russia by changing the interest rates in the uk. so it can't — interest rates in the uk. so it can't control inflation but it has massively — can't control inflation but it has massively redistributed wealth upwards in our society from those who borrow — upwards in our society from those who borrow to those who save. and that is _ who borrow to those who save. and that is against all known sensible social— that is against all known sensible social policy. and at the same time we have _ social policy. and at the same time we have them saying we must accept this. we have them saying we must accept this well, _ we have them saying we must accept this well, i— we have them saying we must accept this. well, i don't accept this, nor do i this. well, i don't accept this, nor do i accept — this. well, i don't accept this, nor do i accept that the government need to continue _ do i accept that the government need to continue with the policy of continuing austerity, which is what they are _ continuing austerity, which is what they are doing. that is... continuing austerity, which is what they are doing. that is. . ._ they are doing. that is... right, lots of political _ they are doing. that is... right, lots of political decisions - they are doing. that is... right, lots of political decisions as - they are doing. that is... right, lots of political decisions as you | lots of political decisions as you say, loads to address there. lee, martin, i will be with you in second. lee, do you want to come back on that. you have got in touch, you are a caller, it is phone in. a lot of this is political and richard says we need to accept being poorer, no we do not. lee?— no we do not. lee? well, there are a lot of politics — no we do not. lee? well, there are a lot of politics in _ no we do not. lee? well, there are a lot of politics in this. _ no we do not. lee? well, there are a lot of politics in this. ultimately - lot of politics in this. ultimately it is going to come down to issues of distribution if you have got those ten sweeties, who gives up the one that they have before or whatever? and i think there is a valid criticism of the bank of england, notjust in terms of its incentive comments —— insensitive comments but that it is focused on wages. they say we don't want this inflation to get embedded by big wage increases. but it hasn't really focused on things like profit margins. more recently it has tried to address that by saying, yeah, we hope companies won't pass on all the cost increases and so on but i think there were a bit slow to do that. so i think it was some criticism of the bank of england and valid criticism in that respect, trying to push all the burden onto labour as it were. but i think that brexit has been a contributor but a relatively small part of it. i think there is a much more fundamental things have been going on, notjust in the uk. the uk happen to be publicly exposed i think in terms of the make—up of its trade to this, as a mention, the terms of trade against us because we have big lot of the things that prices have gone up and that is just what has happened. and so we are more exposed as an economy. it probably doesn't help that we have had brexit, of course not. but i think, look, with austerity, as it turns out history will probably say we had too much austerity for too long because when you look at it actually covid came along and every government tried to borrow more. however, i do think that at the time when government came in in 2010, the uk was basically running a huge deficit. and also its fiscal deficit. and also its fiscal deficit. they basically had to do something, there was a feeling that they had to do something because with the mini budget and all the fiasco around that there is a limit to what britain can do on its own. let's take it from richard, let's take it from threadneedle street to merthyr and gainsborough. after in merthyr, how you doing? fine. merthyr and gainsborough. after in merthyr, how you doing? fine, thank ou. en'o merthyr, how you doing? fine, thank you- enjoy the _ merthyr, how you doing? fine, thank you. enjoy the programme. - merthyr, how you doing? fine, thank you. enjoy the programme. thank . merthyr, how you doing? fine, thank| you. enjoy the programme. thank you you. en'oy the programme. thank you ve you. enjoy the programme. thank you very much- — you. enjoy the programme. thank you very much- it — you. enjoy the programme. thank you very much- it is _ you. enjoy the programme. thank you very much- it is a _ you. enjoy the programme. thank you very much. it is a good _ you. enjoy the programme. thank you very much. it is a good issue - you. enjoy the programme. thank you very much. it is a good issue to - you. enjoy the programme. thank you very much. it is a good issue to get i very much. it is a good issue to get into, it affects everybody. how is it affecting you? at}. into, it affects everybody. how is it affecting you?— it affecting you? 0, terrible, absolutely — it affecting you? 0, terrible, absolutely terrible. - it affecting you? 0, terrible, absolutely terrible. the - it affecting you? 0, terrible, | absolutely terrible. the thing it affecting you? 0, terrible, - absolutely terrible. the thing is, you have — absolutely terrible. the thing is, you have got these rich guys that don't _ you have got these rich guys that don't know — you have got these rich guys that don't know what it is like to be poor~ — don't know what it is like to be poor. they— don't know what it is like to be poor. they don't have to worry about when _ poor. they don't have to worry about when their— poor. they don't have to worry about when their next meal is coming from. they have _ when their next meal is coming from. they have got the cheek to tell us that we _ they have got the cheek to tell us that we should bear the pain and the suffering _ that we should bear the pain and the suffering and that. and i mean the thing _ suffering and that. and i mean the thing is, _ suffering and that. and i mean the thing is, as— suffering and that. and i mean the thing is, as i— suffering and that. and i mean the thing is, as i stated earlier on when — thing is, as i stated earlier on when i — thing is, as i stated earlier on when i called in, it is easy when you haven't _ when i called in, it is easy when you haven't got to go through the pain yourself. this guy should be made _ pain yourself. this guy should be made to— pain yourself. this guy should be made to live on what we have got to live on _ made to live on what we have got to live on and _ made to live on what we have got to live on and see what we have to do and let's_ live on and see what we have to do and let's see — live on and see what we have to do and let's see how he likes it. it is very— and let's see how he likes it. it is very easy— and let's see how he likes it. it is very easy when you're on his money to tell— very easy when you're on his money to tell people it doesn't matter. you can — to tell people it doesn't matter. you can do— to tell people it doesn't matter. you can do it, you can do this, you can do— you can do it, you can do this, you can do that — you can do it, you can do this, you can do that i— you can do it, you can do this, you can do that. i wish i had his wages. i can do that. i wish i had his wages. iwouldn't — can do that. i wish i had his wages. i wouldn't have to worry about food banks _ i wouldn't have to worry about food banks them — i wouldn't have to worry about food banks then, like he doesn't have to worry— banks then, like he doesn't have to worry about — banks then, like he doesn't have to worry about. i would have to worry about _ worry about. i would have to worry about pay— worry about. i would have to worry about pay my electricity, like he doesn't — about pay my electricity, like he doesn't have to. but the fact of the matter— doesn't have to. but the fact of the matter is— doesn't have to. but the fact of the matter is the people of this country have been— matter is the people of this country have been financially starved for far too _ have been financially starved for far too long. financially starved. this means _ far too long. financially starved. this means they haven't been given enough _ this means they haven't been given enough money to live on for far too long _ enough money to live on for far too long 13— enough money to live on for far too long. 13 years we have had the conservative government. all they have done — conservative government. all they have done is cut this, cut that, cut this, _ have done is cut this, cut that, cut this, cut _ have done is cut this, cut that, cut this, cut that _ have done is cut this, cut that, cut this, cut that-— this, cut that. basically the likes of andrew bailey _ this, cut that. basically the likes of andrew bailey and _ this, cut that. basically the likes of andrew bailey and also - this, cut that. basically the likes of andrew bailey and also mr i this, cut that. basically the likes| of andrew bailey and also mr pill are living in a world totally detached from reality? arthur, you express not very well. christine in weymouth, martin and gainsborough. martin, we are getting so many techs at the moment as well. people who are watching this and listening to us. could you put a name and the town of your text as well because we are getting a lot of anonymous at the moment. it is nice to know who you are and where you are calling from. please do put that on your text. with you in a minute, martin and thomas. martin, when you comment thatis and thomas. martin, when you comment that is what you think? i and thomas. martin, when you comment that is what you think?— that is what you think? i think it is a bit of _ that is what you think? i think it is a bit of her _ that is what you think? i think it is a bit of her cheek. _ that is what you think? i think it is a bit of her cheek. hello, - that is what you think? i think it i is a bit of her cheek. hello, nicky. i think it is a bit of a cheek for an overpaid top person in the bank of england telling people to accept being poorer. people at the lower end is using all the incomejust to live, to get by on food and fuel and get to work. there is no disposable income left. people like that man in the bank of england is probably on £600,000, £700,000 a year. they say they earn that, no they don't earn it, they get paid it. people at the top end there is a huge difference between what they earn and what they pat’- between what they earn and what they pay. they are getting paid far more than what they actually earn. and people at the bottom end are struggling to get by. what they should do it cut the income tax level to the level of the minimum wage so you can earn £20,000 before the government take any off you intact. , ., , ., the government take any off you intact. , . , ., intact. christine, what you think? thanks ever _ intact. christine, what you think? thanks ever so _ intact. christine, what you think? thanks ever so much, _ intact. christine, what you think? thanks ever so much, martin. i thanks ever so much, martin. christine. thanks ever so much, martin. christine-— thanks ever so much, martin. christine. a, .' ., christine. morning, nicky. iwould atree christine. morning, nicky. iwould aaree with christine. morning, nicky. iwould agree with the _ christine. morning, nicky. iwould agree with the previous _ christine. morning, nicky. iwould agree with the previous caller's i agree with the previous caller's comments with what you are allowed to earn _ comments with what you are allowed to earn definitely should be a lot higher— to earn definitely should be a lot higher for— to earn definitely should be a lot higher for those of us middle earners, _ higher for those of us middle earners, especially those who are self—employed. ijust think earners, especially those who are self—employed. i just think that earners, especially those who are self—employed. ijust think that it is not _ self—employed. ijust think that it is not a _ self—employed. ijust think that it is not a question of accepting being poorer— is not a question of accepting being poorer and. — is not a question of accepting being poorer and, yes, is not a question of accepting being poorerand, yes, it is is not a question of accepting being poorer and, yes, it is easy for somebody— poorer and, yes, it is easy for somebody at the top of the tree who owns a _ somebody at the top of the tree who owns a lot— somebody at the top of the tree who owns a lot of money to say this. but nobody. _ owns a lot of money to say this. but nobody, nobody, you never hear anybody— nobody, nobody, you never hear anybody saying right it is about time _ anybody saying right it is about time you — anybody saying right it is about time you live within your means. as somebody— time you live within your means. as somebody who has been a mother since the 80s— somebody who has been a mother since the 80s and _ somebody who has been a mother since the 80s and is now 65, approaching pension— the 80s and is now 65, approaching pension age next year, when i have children— pension age next year, when i have children you — pension age next year, when i have children you had to live within your means _ children you had to live within your means if— children you had to live within your means. if you couldn't afford to have _ means. if you couldn't afford to have it — means. if you couldn't afford to have it you _ means. if you couldn't afford to have it you didn't have it. but now it seems— have it you didn't have it. but now it seems a — have it you didn't have it. but now it seems a lot of people, and i'm not saying — it seems a lot of people, and i'm not saying everybody but there are people _ not saying everybody but there are people who feel entitled to have everything. and nobody will say it because _ everything. and nobody will say it because you will get slated, so if you can — because you will get slated, so if you can afford to go out and buy packets — you can afford to go out and buy packets of— you can afford to go out and buy packets of cigarettes and do all these _ packets of cigarettes and do all these other things and then you say i these other things and then you say i can't _ these other things and then you say i can't afford to eat or feed my children. — i can't afford to eat or feed my children, there is something wrong there _ children, there is something wrong there somewhere. but nobody ever challenges than say is right, 0k, what _ challenges than say is right, 0k, what are — challenges than say is right, 0k, what are you spending your money on? and if— what are you spending your money on? and if you _ what are you spending your money on? and if you are _ what are you spending your money on? and if you are spending it on that don't _ and if you are spending it on that don't say— and if you are spending it on that don't say you can't afford to eat. i would _ don't say you can't afford to eat. i would love — don't say you can't afford to eat. i would love to be rich, i would love to have _ would love to be rich, i would love to have lots — would love to be rich, i would love to have lots of money. i don't think that to have lots of money. idon't think that is— to have lots of money. i don't think that is ever— to have lots of money. i don't think that is ever going to happen, so it is not _ that is ever going to happen, so it is not a _ that is ever going to happen, so it is not a question of accepting that we are _ is not a question of accepting that we are poorer, it isjust accepting that maybe — we are poorer, it isjust accepting that maybe there are other things that maybe there are other things that we _ that maybe there are other things that we could do that at some point life will— that we could do that at some point life will get better, hopefully. and live within your means a little bit more _ live within your means a little bit more and — live within your means a little bit more. and i'm sorry if that sounds, you know — more. and i'm sorry if that sounds, you know- - -— you know... know, this is what it is about. you know... know, this is what it is about- can — you know... know, this is what it is about- can i— you know... know, this is what it is about. can i make _ you know... know, this is what it is about. can i make one _ you know... know, this is what it is about. can i make one further- you know... know, this is what it is | about. can i make one further point, nic ? about. can i make one further point, nicky? well, — about. can i make one further point, nicky? well, christine _ about. can i make one further point, nicky? well, christine makes- about. can i make one further point, nicky? well, christine makes a - about. can i make one further point, j nicky? well, christine makes a point that --eole nicky? well, christine makes a point that people are _ nicky? well, christine makes a point that people are allowed _ nicky? well, christine makes a point that people are allowed to _ nicky? well, christine makes a point that people are allowed to make. i that people are allowed to make. christine is a slightly apologetic about that but you are allowed to express it. what you think about what you heard, martin, from christine?— what you heard, martin, from christine? , ' ., ~ christine? there is 1.1 would like to make. people _ christine? there is 1.1 would like to make. people at _ christine? there is 1.1 would like to make. people at the - christine? there is 1.1 would like to make. people at the bottom l christine? there is 1.1 would like - to make. people at the bottom age, if they get a further pay rise... where is top people spend their overseas, so people at the top end getting the money they are on is not benefiting the economy as much as people at the bottom end, who spend it in the economy on the high street. ., . , it in the economy on the high street. ., ., , ., street. point made. christine, what ou are street. point made. christine, what you are saying _ street. point made. christine, what you are saying as — street. point made. christine, what you are saying as well _ street. point made. christine, what you are saying as well as _ street. point made. christine, what you are saying as well as what - street. point made. christine, what you are saying as well as what has. you are saying as well as what has been expressed by lea anderson, who is one of the vice chairs of the conservative party, who says that anyone earning more than £35,000 using food banks must have budgeting problems. he says i have constituents, armed forces, binmen, bus drivers, pensioners who can all live on their son. am i missing something? does he have a point, christine grace can i come on something? i want christine to just one say is there anything in what lee anderson said? we have a politician's panel later. you think there a grain of truth in that, christine? i there a grain of truth in that, christine?— there a grain of truth in that, christine? ~ , christine? i think there is. the trouble is _ christine? i think there is. the trouble is most _ christine? i think there is. the trouble is most politicians - christine? i think there is. the trouble is most politicians are | christine? i think there is. the i trouble is most politicians are out of touch completely. they haven't got a clue what actually goes on in real life and i agree with what the other caller said about people spending money on the local economy which is what we need to do. but it is what they're spending on how they spend on it. those of us who pay tax, we are working hard to keep up with having. if you are self—employed you can't go somebody in demand pay rise so there is a disparity there. but i think mps are slightly out of. taste disparity there. but i think mps are slightly out of-_ slightly out of. we hear that a lot! we have all _ slightly out of. we hear that a lot! we have all politician's _ slightly out of. we hear that a lot! we have all politician's panel - slightly out of. we hear that a lot! we have all politician's panel later on. richard, iwant we have all politician's panel later on. richard, i want you to respond to some the stuff we have heard but, arch the limb after, talk to us about living within our means. yeah, it is easy to — about living within our means. yeah, it is easy to say _ about living within our means. yeah, it is easy to say live _ about living within our means. yeah, it is easy to say live within _ about living within our means. yeah, it is easy to say live within your - it is easy to say live within your means— it is easy to say live within your means and _ it is easy to say live within your means and it would be ok if the same. _ means and it would be ok if the same. it— means and it would be ok if the same. it is— means and it would be ok if the same, it is hard to live within your means— same, it is hard to live within your means when— same, it is hard to live within your means when prices are going up all the time _ means when prices are going up all the time. the means that you have to live in— the time. the means that you have to live in get— the time. the means that you have to live in get smaller and smaller and smaller~ _ live in get smaller and smaller and smaller~ it— live in get smaller and smaller and smaller. it is not even asking for more _ smaller. it is not even asking for more and — smaller. it is not even asking for more and more and expanding your means _ more and more and expanding your means it _ more and more and expanding your means it is — more and more and expanding your means. it is that the means that you have to _ means. it is that the means that you have to live — means. it is that the means that you have to live in are shrinking. all the time — have to live in are shrinking. all the time. . ., have to live in are shrinking. all thetime. . ., ~ , , have to live in are shrinking. all thetime. ~ _ have to live in are shrinking. all thetime. ~ ,, the time. richard murphy, say your iece and the time. richard murphy, say your piece and then _ the time. richard murphy, say your piece and then i'll _ the time. richard murphy, say your piece and then i'll get _ the time. richard murphy, say your piece and then i'll get alex - the time. richard murphy, say your piece and then i'll get alex to - piece and then i'll get alex to respond to it. we have alex from the british chamber of commerce. hello, i think you have a certain, i think i'm right in saying a certain sympathy with what was said from huw pill. respond to richard, who is going to respond to what we have been hearing from our listeners and our viewers. been hearing from our listeners and ourviewers. i heara been hearing from our listeners and our viewers. i hear a trickle some richard murphy! —— i heara our viewers. i hear a trickle some richard murphy! —— i hear a chuckle from richard murphy. christine is saying we all need to live between our means. what you think about what you are hearing, richard?— you are hearing, richard? right, let me ut you are hearing, richard? right, let me put this — you are hearing, richard? right, let me put this into _ you are hearing, richard? right, let me put this into a _ you are hearing, richard? right, let me put this into a simple _ you are hearing, richard? right, let me put this into a simple context. i | me put this into a simple context. i think i really agree with arthur. he is right and i agree with the comment that martin made about money circulating in the local economy. he is right. i'm not totally sure i agree with christine because we actually aren't living within our means. as a country we could do so much more than we are. we know we could have a functioning nhs, functioning education system and so on. so we are clearly not living within our means, we are living well below our means as a country but we are all seeing —— my asking people to live on less than they actually need to meet their needs because of the choices being made. let's explain what those choices are. they really are four. they can be an increase in wages, they can be an increase in wages, they can be an increase in wages, they can be an increase in prices, they can be an increase in prices, they can be an increase in prices, they can be an increase in taxes and there can be any increase in the cost of money, all of which have an impact upon this equation about how we manage the current situation. the government has increased taxes, they have actually gone up on most working people by more than the rate of inflation. the government has massively increased the price of money. it is quite absurd that when we are talking about controlling inflation, the way in which we apparently control inflation is to massively increase the price of money, which is ludicrous because it harms real people either through mortgages or rents. and it benefits those with wealth. who, as martin rightly pointed out, don't spend it, therefore fuelling the declining economy. we could have a control on prices but we haven't. the imf and the world bank both recognise that there is now agreed inflation. that is companies increasing their prices by more than their cost. and there is this so—called wage spiral, which is this so—called wage spiral, which is what huw pill was targeting witches if we put up wages will put up witches if we put up wages will put up inflation. we cannot put up inflation by increasing the wages of people in the nhs because there is no charge for the nhs. all you can do is actually released money into the economy so people can spend and so we can have the economy that we want and which we are capable. and thatis want and which we are capable. and that is the answer to this. and the government should be cutting interest rates, cutting taxes and releasing more money into the economy, which is what we did to get through 2020 2021 and 2008 because we are in crisis and it needs to react, spend to give us growth. alex, from british chambers of commerce, react to that. i’m alex, from british chambers of commerce, react to that. i'm going to tive commerce, react to that. i'm going to give you — commerce, react to that. i'm going to give you the _ commerce, react to that. i'm going to give you the perspective - commerce, react to that. i'm going to give you the perspective from i commerce, react to that. i'm goingl to give you the perspective from the business _ to give you the perspective from the business community. | to give you the perspective from the business community.— to give you the perspective from the business community. i really wanted to address what _ business community. i really wanted to address what richard _ business community. i really wanted to address what richard murphy - business community. i really wanted to address what richard murphy said because richard represents a cogent strand of philosophy, which we hear a lot, that goes against the grain of fiscal policy in this country for many a long year. what you think about his arguments?— many a long year. what you think about his arguments? well, i think if we 'ust about his arguments? well, i think if we just put _ about his arguments? well, i think if we just put this _ about his arguments? well, i think if we just put this into _ about his arguments? well, i think if we just put this into two - about his arguments? well, i think if we just put this into two buckets| if we just put this into two buckets of time _ if we just put this into two buckets of time. there was a world pre—russia new invasion of ukraine and the _ pre—russia new invasion of ukraine and the world we inhabit now. and i think— and the world we inhabit now. and i think if— and the world we inhabit now. and i think if we _ and the world we inhabit now. and i think if we look back to before this huge _ think if we look back to before this huge spike — think if we look back to before this huge spike in oil prices and food prices _ huge spike in oil prices and food prices and — huge spike in oil prices and food prices and all these, what the economists call external factors, which _ economists call external factors, which come through to the economy, there _ which come through to the economy, there was— which come through to the economy, there was quite a degree of scepticism about raising rates. but i scepticism about raising rates. but i interest— scepticism about raising rates. but i interest think the bank of england's and has been forced somewhat, as we see inflation driven by these _ somewhat, as we see inflation driven by these external factors raised to historically high levels. sol think. — historically high levels. sol think, without wanting to get into the ins— think, without wanting to get into the ins and outs of who is right and wrong, _ the ins and outs of who is right and wrong, the — the ins and outs of who is right and wrong, the bank of england have a 'ob wrong, the bank of england have a job to _ wrong, the bank of england have a job to do _ wrong, the bank of england have a job to do and i think actually quite a limited — job to do and i think actually quite a limited set of tools in their tool bot _ a limited set of tools in their tool box. �* , ., a limited set of tools in their tool| box-— well, box. are they doing it well? well, the 're box. are they doing it well? well, they're doing _ box. are they doing it well? well, they're doing what _ box. are they doing it well? well, they're doing what they _ box. are they doing it well? well, they're doing what they can - box. are they doing it well? well, they're doing what they can within they're doing what they can within the bounds of how they set up. one of the _ the bounds of how they set up. one of the things they do is set interest— of the things they do is set interest rates in theirjudgment, as you will— interest rates in theirjudgment, as you will no— interest rates in theirjudgment, as you will no and listeners will know, as you _ you will no and listeners will know, as you put — you will no and listeners will know, as you put up interest rates and that dampens down demand in the economy — that dampens down demand in the economy. is that the only thing that can reduce — economy. is that the only thing that can reduce inflation? no. and i think— can reduce inflation? no. and i think richard said it earlier about can't _ think richard said it earlier about can't control oil prices, that is up slightly— can't control oil prices, that is up slightly right. so what we are saying — slightly right. so what we are saying is _ slightly right. so what we are saying is can we look at this in the round _ saying is can we look at this in the round and — saying is can we look at this in the round and actuallyjust to go back to the _ round and actuallyjust to go back to the comments about wages, i think really— to the comments about wages, i think really businesses get stuck in the middle _ really businesses get stuck in the middle with this because inflation the things businesses spend money on, the things businesses spend money on. raw— the things businesses spend money on, raw materials...— on, raw materials... well, let me 'ust for on, raw materials... well, let me just for a — on, raw materials... well, let me just for a couple _ on, raw materials... well, let me just for a couple of— on, raw materials... well, let me just for a couple of things - on, raw materials... well, let me just for a couple of things in. - just for a couple of things in. there are some comments saying that people will be rightly angered by the tone deaf comments by mr pill, joe in kings lynn coming up. alex, carry on. joe in king's lynn coming up. alex, car on. ., , carry on. that is exactly right, the are carry on. that is exactly right, they are struggling _ carry on. that is exactly right, they are struggling with - carry on. that is exactly right, i they are struggling with inflation. it is they are struggling with inflation. it is one — they are struggling with inflation. it is one of the top two concerns. inflation— it is one of the top two concerns. inflation has been at an absolute homet's — inflation has been at an absolute hornet's staying for the economy. one thing — hornet's staying for the economy. one thing it is doing is driving demand — one thing it is doing is driving demand from employees to be paid more _ demand from employees to be paid more money, because it is. we are seeing _ more money, because it is. we are seeing that— more money, because it is. we are seeing that in the public and private — seeing that in the public and private sector. a seeing that in the public and private sector.— seeing that in the public and private sector. a lot of small businesses _ private sector. a lot of small businesses have _ private sector. a lot of small businesses have absorbed i private sector. a lot of small - businesses have absorbed everything that they can at the moment for psion they are. i can hear people tearing their hair out as they are listening to this. if you with the chairman of the bank of england, the governor, how would you deal with inflation? what would you do? i think the bank of england are doing what they— think the bank of england are doing what they think is right within the tools— what they think is right within the tools of— what they think is right within the tools of the tool box. nicky, what i wanted _ tools of the tool box. nicky, what i wanted to — tools of the tool box. nicky, what i wanted to say about the people side is that— wanted to say about the people side is that one _ wanted to say about the people side is that one way to actually try and solve _ is that one way to actually try and solve this— is that one way to actually try and solve this is — is that one way to actually try and solve this is to increase the amount of supply— solve this is to increase the amount of supply of— solve this is to increase the amount of supply of people entering or coming — of supply of people entering or coming back into the workforce. so ourselves _ coming back into the workforce. so ourselves and the wider business community we represent have been pushing _ community we represent have been pushing for— community we represent have been pushing for a long time to have a different— pushing for a long time to have a different and more sort of liberal approach — different and more sort of liberal approach if you like to bring in skilled — approach if you like to bring in skilled people from overseas to make up skilled people from overseas to make up for— skilled people from overseas to make up for the _ skilled people from overseas to make up for the fact that we have a chronic. _ up for the fact that we have a chronic, crippling lack of workforce in the _ chronic, crippling lack of workforce in the country at the moment. and any business you speak to says we cannot— any business you speak to says we cannot get— any business you speak to says we cannot get enough skilled people. we want to— cannot get enough skilled people. we want to grow, we want a fulfil orders — want to grow, we want a fulfil orders but we have a lack of people. so we _ orders but we have a lack of people. so we do _ orders but we have a lack of people. so we do need to train british people. — so we do need to train british people, there is a lot going on to try to _ people, there is a lot going on to try to encourage people back into the workforce off into the workforce for the _ the workforce off into the workforce for the first — the workforce off into the workforce for the first time. we are really pushing — for the first time. we are really pushing that. for the first time. we are really pushing that-— for the first time. we are really -aushin that. ., . ., ., , .,, pushing that. how much of a problem was exit? you — pushing that. how much of a problem was exit? you talk _ pushing that. how much of a problem was exit? you talk about _ pushing that. how much of a problem was exit? you talk about bringing i was exit? you talk about bringing people into work and to work hard and to do stuff that some people in this country don't want to do. alex, where does brexit rank in the list of problems that we have now? to be honest, brexit is neutral because — to be honest, brexit is neutral because it _ to be honest, brexit is neutral because it gives the uk. x ability on how— because it gives the uk. x ability on how it — because it gives the uk. x ability on how it controls the skilled people — on how it controls the skilled people it _ on how it controls the skilled people it wishes to attract to this country — people it wishes to attract to this country. that's the reality. we are asking _ country. that's the reality. we are asking government to tweak the dials to enable _ asking government to tweak the dials to enable businesses to access the skilled _ to enable businesses to access the skilled people they need and at the same _ skilled people they need and at the same time, keep doing what they are doing _ same time, keep doing what they are doing to _ same time, keep doing what they are doing to encourage people back into work or— doing to encourage people back into work or intojobs doing to encourage people back into work or into jobs for the first time — work or into jobs for the first time that _ work or into jobs for the first time. that is really good and we need _ time. that is really good and we need to— time. that is really good and we need to do— time. that is really good and we need to do both things at the same time and _ need to do both things at the same time and that is one way in which we will try— time and that is one way in which we will try and _ time and that is one way in which we will try and ease the pressure on wages _ will try and ease the pressure on wages and — will try and ease the pressure on wages and gradually ease the pressure on inflation as well. canl pressure on inflation as well. can i correct something _ pressure on inflation as well. can i correct something alec _ pressure on inflation as well. can i correct something alec said? he said the world oil price was the problem, today, it is the same as 2018 and lower than 2014. to claim that is the cause of the problem we face down to the war in ukraine are simply not true. that is not the cause of the problem we face. that is not now where the issue is. the issues are elsewhere and they are political choices, not because of oil prices. political choices, not because of oil rices. ., ~ political choices, not because of oil rices. . ~ , political choices, not because of oil rices. ., ~ , . oil prices. thank you very much, everyone- _ oil prices. thank you very much, everyone- can — oil prices. thank you very much, everyone- can i— oil prices. thank you very much, everyone. can i come _ oil prices. thank you very much, everyone. can i come and i oil prices. thank you very much, everyone. can i come and miss. oil prices. thank you very much, | everyone. can i come and miss it comment? _ everyone. can i come and miss it comment? the _ everyone. can i come and miss it comment? the thing _ everyone. can i come and miss it comment? the thing is, - everyone. can i come and miss it comment? the thing is, this i everyone. can i come and miss it. comment? the thing is, this country has suffered — comment? the thing is, this country has suffered from lack of investment in industry— has suffered from lack of investment in industry for years. then we had 13 years _ in industry for years. then we had 13 years of— in industry for years. then we had 13 years of lack of investment from the conservative party. what should have been— the conservative party. what should have been done, the companies in this country— have been done, the companies in this country should have invested to keep them — this country should have invested to keep them. the long term companies like jaguar, _ keep them. the long term companies like jaguar, leyland, all those companies. instead, there are many things— companies. instead, there are many things invented in this country that are no— things invented in this country that are no longer associated with this country— are no longer associated with this country because they brought to people _ country because they brought to people outside the country. this country— people outside the country. this country is — people outside the country. this country is in a terrible state because _ country is in a terrible state because of things like that. we talk about— because of things like that. we talk about more people working, how can more _ about more people working, how can more people find employment to work in poverty— more people find employment to work in poverty when you have gotjobs that don't— in poverty when you have gotjobs that don't last? in poverty when you have got 'obs that don't [moi in poverty when you have got 'obs that don't last? aass, thank you so much for giving _ that don't last? aass, thank you so much for giving us _ that don't last? aass, thank you so much for giving us a _ that don't last? aass, thank you so much for giving us a valuable i much for giving us a valuable contribution. keep them coming, call 08085 909 693, text 85058. thanks to everybody,. come and chat to us. the government says over 200 british nationals — escaping sudan — have arrived in cyprus. three raf planes have touched down so far. evacuees are set to board the first flight from larnaca to london — later this morning. the government will again debate the illegal migration bill. some conservative backbenchers disagree with parts of the proposed law — including those which allow for children to be detained. the home secretary told the bbc that the bill creates a strong element — of deterrent — around illegal arrivals. as we've been hearing on the show — the bank of england's top economist — huw pill — says people in the uk need to accept they're poorer — otherwise prices will continue to rise. he said it in response to rising costs — and calls for wage increases. the uk's largest foodbank provider — says it's handed out more emergency parcels than ever before — over the past year. the trussell trust said it supplied nearly three million parcels. over a third more — than the year before. both pep guardiola and mikel arteta insist the premier league title race will not be decided tonight as second placed manchester city host leaders arsenal. a win for city would close the gap to two points with two games in hand. arsenal can move 8 points clear with a win at the etihad. aston villa manager unai emery says he's enjoying theirjourney to contenders for european football next season. villa's1—0 win at home to fulham sees them up to 5th in the premier league. emery has won 13 of his 20 premier league games since taking charge in november. england defender lucy bronze has had keyhole surgery on her knee — it's after she limped out of barcelona's champions league semifinal first leg on saturday. she'll miss at least tomorrow's second leg at the nou camp. in spain there was a big defeat for real madrid in la liga, going down 4—2 to girona — valentin castellanos scoring all four. and at the world snooker championship in sheffield, ronnie o'sullivan leads luca brecel by 10 frames to six in their quarterfinal, while at 10 o'clock mark allen and jakjones will resume at eight frames all. good morning. thank you for listening and watching. if you are a new consumer of the programme, let me tell you what happens every wednesday at ten o'clock. we have a politicians panel, they are not all mps but they are very interesting and will be ready to answer your questions. you can ask them anything. there's loads on the agenda at the moment. this week we're joined by paul holmes, the conservative mp for eastleigh and party vice chair. stephen kinnock — the labour mp for aberavon and shadow immigration minister. and caral denyer, who's the green party co—leader. so get your questions in now — sudan, bullying, strikes, sewage, illegal migration. and if you're texting us — remember to include your name and where you are. text 85058. that is coming up at ten o'clock. we have got, talking about whether we have to accept the fact that we are in a poorer era or not following the comments by the chief economist at the bank of england, huw pill. he says we are poorer and it is a fact of life in this day and age. good morning, still lurking in the background, the manager at aberdeen, formerly standard life and richard murphy, joe, thank you for waiting. what do you think about what has been said and how it affects your life? it been said and how it affects your life? , ., ., ,,, been said and how it affects your life? , ., ., ,, , ., life? it is total rubbish, those who to out to life? it is total rubbish, those who go out to work— life? it is total rubbish, those who go out to work every _ life? it is total rubbish, those who go out to work every day, - life? it is total rubbish, those who go out to work every day, why i life? it is total rubbish, those who go out to work every day, why are | go out to work every day, why are they being called greedy if they want a decent pay rise bearing in mind what they are asking for pay rises, they are not actually getting and why are they not being compared to the shareholders, those that get the dividends from the big companies because these big companies are still making profits, why are there not huge profits being set to drive up not huge profits being set to drive up inflation? pare not huge profits being set to drive up inflation?— not huge profits being set to drive u- inflation? �* , , ., , ., up inflation? are pension funds are in those companies. _ up inflation? are pension funds are in those companies. if _ up inflation? are pension funds are in those companies. if you - up inflation? are pension funds are in those companies. if you can't i in those companies. if you can't afford to keep _ in those companies. if you can't afford to keep up _ in those companies. if you can't afford to keep up your- in those companies. if you can't afford to keep up your pension l in those companies. if you can't i afford to keep up your pension fund contribution entity's economic climate you are lucky because it is one of the things that people decide they cannot the lady spoke earlier about living within your means, for many, they will not be able to afford to keep up the pension contributions. they can't afford to keep a trade union fees. they are looking for cheaper insurance. it is not a case of living within your means. you might be on £30,000 a year but you might have two children and your mortgage costs have gone up along with your other utilities and you are left with literally nothing. these are not people who are greedy. they are not lazy. they are keeping all the services that we need a float and all they want is a pay rise. the pay rises that be are being awarded are not astronomical. some of the places i have seen, they are lucky, lucky if they get 5%. it is not these 35% headline figures or even the 15% headline figures, they are not getting those pay rises. they are not. to be clear, even if they were getting a 10% pay rise, it still equates to a pay cut because of the cost of living increase. i am atoin of the cost of living increase. i am ttoin to of the cost of living increase. i am going to bring _ of the cost of living increase. i am going to bring vivian _ of the cost of living increase. i am going to bring vivian n. _ of the cost of living increase. i am going to bring vivian n. i- of the cost of living increase. i am going to bring vivian n. i know our economists are listening intently. good morning. i economists are listening intently. good morning-— economists are listening intently. good morning._ the i good morning. i am fine. the comments — good morning. i am fine. the comments by _ good morning. i am fine. the comments by the _ good morning. i am fine. the comments by the chief i good morning. i am fine. the i comments by the chief economist, people should stop trying to keep up the spiralling cost of living and accept they are worse off, we are in accept they are worse off, we are in a poorer era. would you think? i don't think that's right. i don't think— don't think that's right. i don't think anyone should accept that. i do not _ think anyone should accept that. i do not i— think anyone should accept that. i do not. i have tried to keep going for a _ do not. i have tried to keep going for a long. — do not. i have tried to keep going for a long, long time and it has got impossible — for a long, long time and it has got impossible. it is now impossible, even _ impossible. it is now impossible, even not — impossible. it is now impossible, even not spending your money on excessive — even not spending your money on excessive things, or things that are considered — excessive things, or things that are considered not essential. you are left with— considered not essential. you are left with very little and not enough to live _ left with very little and not enough to live on — left with very little and not enough to live on i— left with very little and not enough to live on. i am on benefit. i am on pip~ _ to live on. i am on benefit. i am on pip~ i_ to live on. i am on benefit. i am on pip~ i get— to live on. i am on benefit. i am on pip. i get around 13,000, £13,500 a yearto— pip. i get around 13,000, £13,500 a year to live _ pip. i get around 13,000, £13,500 a year to live on. at the end of the day, _ year to live on. at the end of the day, i— year to live on. at the end of the day i am — year to live on. at the end of the day, lam not year to live on. at the end of the day, i am not left with 1p. it's so hard! _ day, i am not left with 1p. it's so hard! i_ day, i am not left with 1p. it's so hard! i do— day, i am not left with 1p. it's so hard! i do not accept it. 13 years of conservative government and i was better— of conservative government and i was better under labour. we of conservative government and i was better under labour.— better under labour. we have the tanel with better under labour. we have the panel with politicians _ better under labour. we have the panel with politicians coming i better under labour. we have the panelwith politicians coming up, | panel with politicians coming up, give me an idea of the sacrifices you have had to make over the last couple of years. you have had to make over the last couple of years-— couple of years. over the last 30 ears. couple of years. over the last 30 years. specifically _ couple of years. over the last 30 years. specifically the _ couple of years. over the last 30 years. specifically the war i couple of years. over the last 30 years. specifically the war in i years. specifically the war in ukraine. _ years. specifically the war in ukraine, food _ years. specifically the war in ukraine, food prices, - years. specifically the war in ukraine, food prices, oil- years. specifically the war in i ukraine, food prices, oil prices, the knock—on effects, it is acute now. i appreciate what saying, but... ., ., now. i appreciate what saying, but... , . , ., , , 4, but... food prices go up every week, fortnightly- — but... food prices go up every week, fortnightly- how _ but... food prices go up every week, fortnightly. how does _ but... food prices go up every week, fortnightly. how does it _ but... food prices go up every week, fortnightly. how does it affect - but... food prices go up every week, fortnightly. how does it affect what l fortnightly. how does it affect what ou bu fortnightly. how does it affect what you buy and — fortnightly. how does it affect what you buy and eat? — fortnightly. how does it affect what you buy and eat? i— fortnightly. how does it affect what you buy and eat? i buy _ fortnightly. how does it affect what you buy and eat? i buy less. - fortnightly. how does it affect what you buy and eat? i buy less. i i fortnightly. how does it affect what you buy and eat? i buy less. i can't| you buy and eat? i buy less. i can't alwa s you buy and eat? i buy less. i can't always have _ you buy and eat? i buy less. i can't always have what _ you buy and eat? i buy less. i can't always have what i _ you buy and eat? i buy less. i can't always have what i need. _ you buy and eat? i buy less. i can't always have what i need. and i you buy and eat? i buy less. i can't always have what i need. and it i you buy and eat? i buy less. i can't l always have what i need. and it does affect _ always have what i need. and it does affect your _ always have what i need. and it does affect your health. and your well— being. affect your health. and your well—being. and that is not right. it is well—being. and that is not right. it is not _ well—being. and that is not right. it is not right that anybody in this country— it is not right that anybody in this country should be putting their well— being country should be putting their well—being on hold. is country should be putting their well—being on hold. is it country should be putting their well-being on hold. is it affecting our well-being on hold. is it affecting your physical _ well-being on hold. is it affecting your physical and _ well-being on hold. is it affecting your physical and mental - well-being on hold. is it affecting your physical and mental health? | well-being on hold. is it affecting i your physical and mental health? it does, yes. i spent money on what is essential— does, yes. i spent money on what is essential to— does, yes. i spent money on what is essential to live.— essential to live. what is a luxury for ou essential to live. what is a luxury for you know? — essential to live. what is a luxury for you know? luxury? _ essential to live. what is a luxury for you know? luxury? do - essential to live. what is a luxury for you know? luxury? do you i essential to live. what is a luxury i for you know? luxury? do you know what? i couldn't _ for you know? luxury? do you know what? i couldn't tell _ for you know? luxury? do you know what? i couldn't tell you _ for you know? luxury? do you know what? i couldn't tell you any - for you know? luxury? do you know what? i couldn't tell you any more. | what? i couldn't tell you any more. that it _ what? i couldn't tell you any more. that it has — what? i couldn't tell you any more. that it has been so long since had a luxury _ that it has been so long since had a luxury i_ that it has been so long since had a luxury. i actually can't tell you. i really _ luxury. i actually can't tell you. i really can't — luxury. i actually can't tell you. i really can't remember.— luxury. i actually can't tell you. i really can't remember. have you used a food bank? — really can't remember. have you used a food bank? have _ really can't remember. have you used a food bank? have you _ really can't remember. have you used a food bank? have you been - really can't remember. have you used a food bank? have you been in - really can't remember. have you used a food bank? have you been in that i a food bank? have you been in that situation? ., ., ., ., ., situation? no, i am not at that toint situation? no, i am not at that point yet, _ situation? no, i am not at that point yet, but... _ situation? no, i am not at that point yet, but... i— situation? no, i am not at that point yet, but... i hear- situation? no, i am not at that point yet, but. .. i hear of- situation? no, i am not at that l point yet, but... i hear of people that are — point yet, but... i hear of people that are. and... i really think they should _ that are. and... i really think they should not— that are. and... i really think they should not be in that situation? nobody— should not be in that situation? nobody should.— should not be in that situation? nobody should. very kind of you to call this morning, _ nobody should. very kind of you to call this morning, i _ nobody should. very kind of you to call this morning, i appreciate i nobody should. very kind of you to call this morning, i appreciate it. i call this morning, i appreciate it. to all of you, i will come back to you, vivian, because i know we have a lot of interesting points and you may wish to further comment. good morning. may wish to further comment. good mornint. ~ ., may wish to further comment. good mornint. . ., , .,, may wish to further comment. good mornint. ~ ., , ., may wish to further comment. good mornint. ., ., ., morning. what people have already said, morning. what people have already said. percentage — morning. what people have already said, percentage wise _ morning. what people have already said, percentage wise with - said, percentage wise with inflation, and obviously because of the things that have been spoken about and it has all mentioned. manufacturers and wholesalers are not passing on the savings. milk and bread prices are coming down but the wholesale are not passing it on, they are holding onto it. this is what huw _ they are holding onto it. this is what huw pill— they are holding onto it. this is what huw pill is _ they are holding onto it. this is what huw pill is saying, - they are holding onto it. this is what huw pill is saying, it i they are holding onto it. this is what huw pill is saying, it is i they are holding onto it. this is what huw pill is saying, it is a i what huw pill is saying, it is a game of pass the parcel where each player is not willing to accept the burden of higher prices. it is reversing — burden of higher prices. it is reversing now, _ burden of higher prices. it is reversing now, we _ burden of higher prices. it 3 reversing now, we have to pay if you levy charged on every delivery we have. we have to force the wholesaler to say, fuel price came down two weeks ago and you have not moved. it goes up the next day, and the fuel levy goes up. it is benefiting other people. looking at it from the other side, every time something goes wrong, there is pressure, more and more people, the recession before covid—19, and on the other side of covid—19, more and more people have been dragged into theissue more people have been dragged into the issue of financial burden and are looked at with more disdain where as before the working class were struggling, the middle earners are being dragged into it also. and the people that are earning more money, it is a question of what is happening to help address the people who are a larger population of who are struggling. before it was a minority, now it is a majority. the minority, now it is a ma'ority. the line is minority, now it is a ma'ority. the tine is moving * minority, now it is a ma'ority. the line is moving at i minority, now it is a majority. the line is moving at the moment. i am going to bring thomas in, fascinated to know what he thinks about vivian and joel and sandra coming up as well. some powerful points have been made. good morning, sandra. goad made. good morning, sandra. good mornint. made. good morning, sandra. good morning- ? — made. good morning, sandra. good morning. ? what _ made. good morning, sandra. good morning. ? what about _ made. good morning, sandra. good morning. ? what about what huw pill said we _ morning. ? what about what huw pill said we are _ morning. ? what about what huw pill said we are all too rare. we morning. ? what about what huw pill said we are all too rare.— said we are all too rare. we need to tet used said we are all too rare. we need to get used to — said we are all too rare. we need to get used to it- _ said we are all too rare. we need to get used to it. what _ said we are all too rare. we need to get used to it. what annoys - said we are all too rare. we need to get used to it. what annoys me, i i said we are all too rare. we need to i get used to it. what annoys me, i am a carer, i worked _ get used to it. what annoys me, i am a carer, i worked as _ get used to it. what annoys me, i am a carer, i worked as a _ get used to it. what annoys me, i am a carer, i worked as a civil— a carer, i worked as a civil servant. _ a carer, ! worked as a civil servant. it— a carer, i worked as a civil servant, it was not a well—paid civil— servant, it was not a well—paid civil servant but there was a... i had _ civil servant but there was a... i had to— civil servant but there was a... i had to give _ civil servant but there was a... i had to give up myjob because of disability — had to give up myjob because of disability. i am going to be for all my life _ disability. i am going to be for all my life and — disability. i am going to be for all my life and depend on a state pension— my life and depend on a state pension because of that. i have always— pension because of that. i have always worked. carers, the food that we are _ always worked. carers, the food that we are having to eat at the moment and feed _ we are having to eat at the moment and feed our children is very poor quality _ and feed our children is very poor quality i— and feed our children is very poor quality. i tried and feed our children is very poor quality. itried my and feed our children is very poor quality. i tried my best, and feed our children is very poor quality. itried my best, i and feed our children is very poor quality. i tried my best, i got of living _ quality. i tried my best, i got of living payment yesterday and i celebrated and put money in the gas meter— celebrated and put money in the gas meter and _ celebrated and put money in the gas meter and i— celebrated and put money in the gas meter and i bought... celebrated and put money in the gas meterand i bought... we celebrated and put money in the gas meter and i bought... we celebrated. i am meter and i bought... we celebrated. i am able _ meter and i bought... we celebrated. i am able to— meter and i bought... we celebrated. i am able to get some good quality food because it is a ticking time bomb— food because it is a ticking time bomb of— food because it is a ticking time bomb of people being ill in the future, — bomb of people being ill in the future, type two diabetes, other conditions. i worry about the rhetoric— conditions. i worry about the rhetoric because it is our fault that— rhetoric because it is our fault that we — rhetoric because it is our fault that we get type two diabetes rather than because of the food that we have _ than because of the food that we have been— than because of the food that we have been feeding our children at the moment. yes. it is a time bomb. how does _ the moment. yes. it is a time bomb. how does it— the moment. yes. it is a time bomb. how does it go down when you hear the bank of england saying this? it is a clumsy physiology but some are saying he has a point. you don't think so. ~ ., ., , , think so. what worries me, they will sa the think so. what worries me, they will say they can't _ think so. what worries me, they will say they can't afford _ think so. what worries me, they will say they can't afford to _ think so. what worries me, they will say they can't afford to give - think so. what worries me, they will say they can't afford to give people | say they can't afford to give people benefits _ say they can't afford to give people benefits and they will open the per house _ benefits and they will open the per house again. politicians out of touch — house again. politicians out of touch you _ house again. politicians out of touch. you do not have a clue. the money _ touch. you do not have a clue. the money they— touch. you do not have a clue. the money they get for the food allowance is more than what some people _ allowance is more than what some people have to feed their families for a week. probably two days worth of food _ for a week. probably two days worth of food we — for a week. probably two days worth of food. we have the coronation coming — of food. we have the coronation coming up — of food. we have the coronation coming up and that is a total waste of money — coming up and that is a total waste of mone . ., , ., ., coming up and that is a total waste ofmone. ., ,., ., . coming up and that is a total waste ofmone. ., ., ., of money. that is another topic for a hone of money. that is another topic for a phone in- — of money. that is another topic for a phone in- we _ of money. that is another topic for a phone in. we will _ of money. that is another topic for a phone in. we will be _ of money. that is another topic for a phone in. we will be back. i of money. that is another topic for a phone in. we will be back. we i of money. that is another topic for i a phone in. we will be back. we have had joe, thomas, fund manager in aberdeen, i know you say the phraseology of huw pill was unfortunate and the way he said it. does he, does andrew bailey, the governor of the bank of england, do they understand our callers? do they know what it's like? for those people? know what it's like? for those tteole? , , know what it's like? for those eo le? , , , , know what it's like? for those tteole? , , , , , know what it's like? for those tteole? , , ,, ,., people? this is the issue, it is a challenge _ people? this is the issue, it is a challenge for — people? this is the issue, it is a challenge for them _ people? this is the issue, it is a challenge for them to _ people? this is the issue, it is a i challenge for them to communicate how this discourse, even this programme is helpful. if you are sitting in the bank of england you want this debate to be out in the open, you do not want it to fester. individually, we have to do our best to keep up with the cost of living and it is incredibly hard for people that you have spoken to this morning. all of us have different levels of power. if you have got trade unions representing us, some people have got that to fight for, other people haven't. you may find you are in a job like plumbers where you are in a job like plumbers where you have got loads of potential to grow your wage. ii you have got loads of potential to grow your wage-— you have got loads of potential to grow your wage. if you say to huw pill or andrew— grow your wage. if you say to huw pill or andrew bailey, _ grow your wage. if you say to huw pill or andrew bailey, what - grow your wage. if you say to huw pill or andrew bailey, what was i grow your wage. if you say to huw pill or andrew bailey, what was it | pill or andrew bailey, what was it you go sandra a few new got leaks because you got your payment. £1 [for because you got your payment. £1 for a leak. i because you got your payment. £1 for a leak- i made _ because you got your payment. £1 for a leak. i made it _ because you got your payment. £1 for a leak. i made it with _ because you got your payment. £1 for a leak. i made it with potato - because you got your payment. £1 for a leak. i made it with potato soup. i'm a leak. i made it with potato soup. i'm sure _ a leak. i made it with potato soup. i'm sure it— a leak. i made it with potato soup. i'm sure it was a beautiful soup. if huw pill was to hear that, with the make of it? that is what i am asking. make of it? that is what i am askint. , ., ., ., ., asking. they are aware that inflation is _ asking. they are aware that inflation is a _ asking. they are aware that inflation is a regressive i asking. they are aware that \ inflation is a regressive tax. asking. they are aware that - inflation is a regressive tax. i'm sor , inflation is a regressive tax. i'm sorry. thomas. _ inflation is a regressive tax. i'm sorry, thomas, i _ inflation is a regressive tax. i'm sorry, thomas, i don't want to be rich, but the big thing is i can afford to buy a leek and itin of beans. ., u, afford to buy a leek and itin of beans. ., ., , beans. you can argue with them, but the are beans. you can argue with them, but they are aware _ beans. you can argue with them, but they are aware it _ beans. you can argue with them, but they are aware it is _ beans. you can argue with them, but they are aware it is regressive - beans. you can argue with them, but they are aware it is regressive and i they are aware it is regressive and they are aware it is regressive and the need get inflation down. they know it is causing a furor, that we are discussing on this programme right now. it needs to happen because every year that takes buy with inflation higher than wages, the people you are speaking to today are getting more and more poor. the inflation rate needs to come down. the bank of england is held accountable ultimately for the rate of inflation. they are responsible for getting inflation down and part of the way they are doing that is by having the discussion, they are trying to influence wage negotiations, get employers to see... town can i come in please? i will probably never be able to work, i am a carer who is not paved. i contribute thousands of pounds into the system — contribute thousands of pounds into the system i— contribute thousands of pounds into the system i get— contribute thousands of pounds into the system. i get £70 _ contribute thousands of pounds into the system. i get £70 a _ contribute thousands of pounds into the system. i get £70 a week. - contribute thousands of pounds into the system. i get £70 a week. i- the system. i get £70 a week. i would _ the system. i get £70 a week. i would love _ the system. i get £70 a week. i would love to _ the system. i get £70 a week. i would love to work. _ the system. i get £70 a week. i would love to work. i— the system. i get £70 a week. i would love to work. i would - the system. i get £70 a week. i would love to work. i would —— i the system. i get £70 a week. i| would love to work. i would —— i have _ would love to work. i would —— i have worked _ would love to work. i would —— i have worked all— would love to work. i would —— i have worked all my _ would love to work. i would —— i have worked all my life, - would love to work. i would —— i have worked all my life, and - would love to work. i would —— i have worked all my life, and i. would love to work. i would —— i- have worked all my life, and i would like to _ have worked all my life, and i would like to work— have worked all my life, and i would like to work again _ have worked all my life, and i would like to work again but _ have worked all my life, and i would like to work again but i _ have worked all my life, and i would like to work again but i can't. - like to work again but i can't. what about— like to work again but i can't. what about people — like to work again but i can't. what about people like _ like to work again but i can't. what about people like me? _ like to work again but i can't. what about people like me? and - like to work again but i can't. what about people like me? and the - like to work again but i can't. whatl about people like me? and the lady who has_ about people like me? and the lady who has the — about people like me? and the lady who has the disability _ about people like me? and the lady who has the disability and _ about people like me? and the lady who has the disability and can't - who has the disability and can't work? — who has the disability and can't work? we _ who has the disability and can't work? we are _ who has the disability and can't work? we are not— who has the disability and can't work? we are not representedl who has the disability and can't . work? we are not represented by unions, _ work? we are not represented by unions, who— work? we are not represented by unions, who is_ work? we are not represented by unions, who is going _ work? we are not represented by unions, who is going to— work? we are not represented by unions, who is going to think- work? we are not represented by. unions, who is going to think about our situation? _ unions, who is going to think about our situation?— our situation? there is a union who can help support — our situation? there is a union who can help support people _ our situation? there is a union who can help support people not - our situation? there is a union who can help support people not in - our situation? there is a union who can help support people not in the | can help support people not in the workplace, but most people who are struggling _ workplace, but most people who are struggling cannot afford a trade union— struggling cannot afford a trade union membership, but i would actively— union membership, but i would actively encourage you to go to unite _ actively encourage you to go to unite to — actively encourage you to go to unite to see what they can do to help _ unite to see what they can do to help ? — unite to see what they can do to hel. ? ., ., ., , , unite to see what they can do to hel.? ., ., ., , , . ., help. ? you are on my list, richard. harve , help. ? you are on my list, richard. harvey. it — help. ? you are on my list, richard. harvey. it is — help. ? you are on my list, richard. harvey. it is your— help. ? you are on my list, richard. harvey, it is your turn _ help. ? you are on my list, richard. harvey, it is your turn to _ help. ? you are on my list, richard. harvey, it is your turn to sum - help. ? you are on my list, richard. harvey, it is your turn to sum up - harvey, it is your turn to sum up what you have heard and process it for our listeners. would you say? good morning, you look well on the tv. well done to you all. this needs to be said. my heart goes out to the people who are struggling, they are not all struggling, listen to me, they are not all struggling. you are encouraging people what money they have in their pockets to buy takeaway foods, they do not want to work, you are encouraging food banks. you are encouraging them to go to food banks. you are advertising free mobility cars on the tv. you should not be doing that. let me finish. my heart goes out to those that are struggling, but you need to lay off the flatscreen tvs, the brand—new telephone zero bank, i'm not talking about everybody. i havejust telephone zero bank, i'm not talking about everybody. i have just come out of hospital, the guy in the bed next to me, 58 years of age, a lorry driver, i am next to me, 58 years of age, a lorry driver, lam not next to me, 58 years of age, a lorry driver, i am not going to work, you are encouraging people to... the farmers are desperate for workers. you sit there and you are all learning big money. i you sit there and you are all learning big money. lam a you sit there and you are all learning big money. i am a self—made millionaire. i worked all my life. i do not buy designer clothes. live beyond your means if that is what you want, the people who do not want to work know that the government... the state will never go skint. the state will never go skint, you are guaranteed to get your money. you go to the benefit of this and get all your benefits, it's not rubbish! it's fact. , , ., it's fact. this is about letting eo - le it's fact. this is about letting peeple say — it's fact. this is about letting people say what _ it's fact. this is about letting people say what they - it's fact. this is about letting people say what they want . it's fact. this is about letting | people say what they want to it's fact. this is about letting - people say what they want to say. within reason. i am intrigued by your position. your position is not i million miles away from the vice chairman of the conservative party, he is saying the same stuff. we have got our politicians coming up at ten o'clock. i would love to hear you in conversation with their politicians, are you available in ten minutes a few! are you available in ten minutes a fe ., , are you available in ten minutes a fe . , . ., , are you available in ten minutes a fe ., , . ., , ., are you available in ten minutes a fe . , , ., are you available in ten minutes a fe . , ., ., few i want this country to take away the blue badges. _ few i want this country to take away the blue badges. we _ few i want this country to take away the blue badges. we will— few i want this country to take away the blue badges. we will get - few i want this country to take away the blue badges. we will get back l few i want this country to take away | the blue badges. we will get back to ou. you the blue badges. we will get back to you- you raise _ the blue badges. we will get back to you. you raise a _ the blue badges. we will get back to you. you raise a lot _ the blue badges. we will get back to you. you raise a lot of _ the blue badges. we will get back to you. you raise a lot of issues - the blue badges. we will get back to you. you raise a lot of issues and . the blue badges. we will get back to you. you raise a lot of issues and i l you. you raise a lot of issues and i would like to hear you in conversation with the conservative, labour, green party representative. i can hear huffing and puffing from richard. i i can hear huffing and puffing from richard. ., ., ., richard. i have to react to some thins richard. i have to react to some things when _ richard. i have to react to some things when i— richard. i have to react to some things when i take _ richard. i have to react to some things when i take offence, - richard. i have to react to some things when i take offence, i - richard. i have to react to some l things when i take offence, i want to talk— things when i take offence, i want to talk about simple facts. i have already— to talk about simple facts. i have already mentioned the claim this is done _ already mentioned the claim this is done to— already mentioned the claim this is done to the war in ukraine and the change _ done to the war in ukraine and the change in— done to the war in ukraine and the change in oil prices, the oil price is the _ change in oil prices, the oil price is the same _ change in oil prices, the oil price is the same as before. also, looking i’ilht is the same as before. also, looking right now— is the same as before. also, looking right now with gas prices. they are now one _ right now with gas prices. they are now one ninth of what they are at the peak— now one ninth of what they are at the peak in — now one ninth of what they are at the peak in 2022 and on average, they are — the peak in 2022 and on average, they are 70% down and what they were they are 70% down and what they were the last _ they are 70% down and what they were the last couple of years. have we seen _ the last couple of years. have we seen that — the last couple of years. have we seen that in our domestic prices? no because _ seen that in our domestic prices? no because the — seen that in our domestic prices? no because the government is keeping the price _ because the government is keeping the price up at the moment the same as they— the price up at the moment the same as they are _ the price up at the moment the same as they are keeping the price of borrowing — as they are keeping the price of borrowing up at the moment in fact it's going _ borrowing up at the moment in fact it's going to — borrowing up at the moment in fact it's going to increase it again. huw pill is— it's going to increase it again. huw pill is going — it's going to increase it again. huw pill is going to increase inflation! by pill is going to increase inflation! by putting up the interest rate yet again _ by putting up the interest rate yet again. and the government has increased — again. and the government has increased tax. the one thing we do not want _ increased tax. the one thing we do not want to— increased tax. the one thing we do not want to increase as wages, this is a conspiracy. it is against working _ is a conspiracy. it is against working people in favour of the wealthy — working people in favour of the wealthy. there is a class war going on in _ wealthy. there is a class war going on in this— wealthy. there is a class war going on in this country right now and i cannot— on in this country right now and i cannot pretend otherwise and that war is— cannot pretend otherwise and that war is wealthy against working people — war is wealthy against working people. it is not necessary. can i brina people. it is not necessary. can i bring thomas — people. it is not necessary. can i bring thomas back _ people. it is not necessary. can i bring thomas back in? _ people. it is not necessary. can i bring thomas back in? we - people. it is not necessary. can i bring thomas back in? we can i people. it is not necessary. can i l bring thomas back in? we can cut taxes for those _ bring thomas back in? we can cut taxes for those working, - bring thomas back in? we can cut taxes for those working, increase | taxes for those working, increase taxes _ taxes for those working, increase taxes on — taxes for those working, increase taxes on wealth and redistribute and cut interest rates and we could spend — cut interest rates and we could spend more. that is entirely possible _ spend more. that is entirely possible. there is no constraint on the government as we know because if the government as we know because if the spend. _ the government as we know because if the spend, they would collect more tax revenue because as martin, author— tax revenue because as martin, author said earlier, if we spend, the people — author said earlier, if we spend, the people who pass the money into the people who pass the money into the community, you create a multiplier, every £1 spent on the nhs generates £4. | multiplier, every £1 spent on the nhs generates £4.— nhs generates £4. i need to tell --eole, nhs generates £4. i need to tell people. live _ nhs generates £4. i need to tell people, live coverage _ nhs generates £4. i need to tell people, live coverage of- nhs generates £4. i need to tellj people, live coverage of snooker nhs generates £4. i need to tell. people, live coverage of snooker on bbc two. the panel for politicians is coming up at ten o'clock. that was a final fuser lad. i need to get a response from thomas. is that a conspiracy theory? i will give you 40 seconds. conspiracy theory? i will give you 40 seconds-— conspiracy theory? i will give you 40 seconds. that is a very strong and politicised _ 40 seconds. that is a very strong and politicised comment - 40 seconds. that is a very strong and politicised comment by - 40 seconds. that is a very strong i and politicised comment by richard. he comes from a certain political wing and i would point richer to the fact that we are at full employment already, that is inflationary, the bank of england has to deal with an inflationary system which, if we did everything richard said, we would exacerbate the inflation. i would take issue with what richard has been saying this morning. thank you ve much been saying this morning. thank you very much to — been saying this morning. thank you very much to all _ been saying this morning. thank you very much to all our _ been saying this morning. thank you very much to all our colours, - been saying this morning. thank you very much to all our colours, very i very much to all our colours, very moving contributions, we are going to carry on by talking to the mps and you can ask them whatever the heck you want! yes, i should say that rather than mps we have three representatives. every wednesday on this programme ahead of prime minister's questions, we round up a panel of politicians to answer your questions. what do you want to ask? loads on the agenda this week. sudan, strikes, bullying, sewage, illegal migration. ready to speak to you for the next hour are — paul holmes, the conservative mp for eastleigh and party vice chair. stephen kinnock — the labour mp for aberavon and shadow immigration minister. and carla denyer, who's the green party co—leader. they're waiting for your call. your questions to politicians. we have one who has already contributed, an interesting point of view. your questions to politicians coming up. get in touch. now the news. the first plane heading to the uk from cyprus has now left, carrying british nationals escaping sudan. around 250 people are on board. the evacuation operation is taking advantage of a three—day ceasefire after more than a week of fighting. mps are preparing for another debate on the government's plan to deter migrants from crossing the channel. the home secretary told the bbc that ministers wanted to create a strong element of deterrent. but some conservatives are unsure about back in the illegal migration bill, which would allow children to be detained. data seen by the bbc suggests alcohol related deaths in england and wales have reached another record high. deaths rose sharply during the pandemic and went up by another 4% in 2022. and amazon could recognise a trade union in the uk for the first time. the gmb said most workers at the company's work to limit warehouse in coventry voted to limit warehouse in coventry voted to join the to limit warehouse in coventry voted tojoin the union. it is to limit warehouse in coventry voted to join the union. it is estimated the plan employs around 1300 people. —— the plant employs around 1300 people. 08085 909 693. 85058 on the text. we have a lot of participants. put your name and your town on the text. we have got our politicians panel. the politicians this week because we have carla denyer who is the green party co—leader. delighted to have you, carla. party co-leader. delighted to have you. carla-— party co-leader. delighted to have ou, carla. ., . ., , you, carla. good morning, nice to be here. and stephen _ you, carla. good morning, nice to be here. and stephen kinnock. - you, carla. good morning, nice to be here. and stephen kinnock. and i you, carla. good morning, nice to be| here. and stephen kinnock. and paul holmes, conservative _ here. and stephen kinnock. and paul holmes, conservative mp _ here. and stephen kinnock. and paul holmes, conservative mp for - holmes, conservative mp for eastleigh. party vice chair. hi, paul, how you doing? fine thanks, nic . paul, how you doing? fine thanks, nicky- thanks _ paul, how you doing? fine thanks, nicky. thanks for— paul, how you doing? fine thanks, nicky. thanks for having _ paul, how you doing? fine thanks, nicky. thanks for having me. i paul, how you doing? fine thanks, nicky. thanks for having me. we l paul, how you doing? fine thanks, i nicky. thanks for having me. we have some ureat nicky. thanks for having me. we have some great questions _ nicky. thanks for having me. we have some great questions coming - nicky. thanks for having me. we have some great questions coming in. it is time to actually bring in i think ourfirst one. actually, do is time to actually bring in i think our first one. actually, do you is time to actually bring in i think ourfirst one. actually, do you know what i will do? i want to slightly carry on our conversation that we had in the first hour, which is about the comments by huw pill, chief economist at the bank of england, urging people to stop trying to keep up with the spiralling cost of living and accept that they are worse off. as i put it earlier on, we are in a poorer era. and he did this thing, if anyone is justjoining us, he said comparing wages and prices to high inflation is like a game of pass the parcel which is all the players unknown willing to accept the burden. who have we got? we have some callers. adie, hello. where are you?- adie, hello. where are you? hello. halifax, adie, hello. where are you? hello. halifax. west _ adie, hello. where are you? hello. halifax, west yorkshire. _ adie, hello. where are you? hello. halifax, west yorkshire. nice i adie, hello. where are you? hello. halifax, west yorkshire. nice one. | halifax, west yorkshire. nice one. and we have _ halifax, west yorkshire. nice one. and we have harvey. _ halifax, west yorkshire. nice one. and we have harvey. morning. i. and we have harvey. morning. i thouuht and we have harvey. morning. i thought the _ and we have harvey. morning. i thought the giro _ and we have harvey. morning. i thought the giro from _ and we have harvey. morning. i thought the giro from lincoln i and we have harvey. morning. i. thought the giro from lincoln was lee anderson talking. the thought the giro from lincoln was lee anderson talking.— thought the giro from lincoln was lee anderson talking. the tory vice chair? go on. _ lee anderson talking. the tory vice chair? go on, adie. _ lee anderson talking. the tory vice chair? go on, adie. speak- lee anderson talking. the tory vice chair? go on, adie. speak to i lee anderson talking. the tory vice chair? go on, adie. speak to me, l chair? go on, adie. speak to me, lease chair? go on, adie. speak to me, please about _ chair? go on, adie. speak to me, please about what _ chair? go on, adie. speak to me, please about what i _ chair? go on, adie. speak to me, please about what i have - chair? go on, adie. speak to me, please about what i have said i chair? go on, adie. speak to me, please about what i have said is l please about what i have said is ridiculous. please about what i have said is ridiculous-— ridiculous. you sound like lee anderson- _ ridiculous. you sound like lee anderson. you _ ridiculous. you sound like lee anderson. you have _ ridiculous. you sound like lee anderson. you have the i ridiculous. you sound like lee anderson. you have the same ridiculous. you sound like lee - anderson. you have the same accent and everything. so you have just basically— and everything. so you have just basically say that everybody is a scrounger? did basically say that everybody is a scrounger?— basically say that everybody is a scrounger? basically say that everybody is a scrounuer? , , you scrounger? did i say everybody? you didn't say everybody _ scrounger? did i say everybody? you didn't say everybody but _ scrounger? did i say everybody? you didn't say everybody but his... i scrounger? did i say everybody? you didn't say everybody but his... you i didn't say everybody but his... you are the _ didn't say everybody but his... you are the sort— didn't say everybody but his... you are the sort of person who thinks that people shouldn't even have a mobile _ that people shouldn't even have a mobile phone. my that people shouldn't even have a mobile phone-— that people shouldn't even have a mobile phone. that people shouldn't even have a mobile hone. g .,, , , mobile phone. my mobile number is 27 ears old. i mobile phone. my mobile number is 27 years old. i drive _ mobile phone. my mobile number is 27 years old. i drive a _ mobile phone. my mobile number is 27 years old. i drive a £300 _ mobile phone. my mobile number is 27 years old. i drive a £300 car, - mobile phone. my mobile number is 27 years old. i drive a £300 car, i - years old. i drive a £300 car, i don't have a flash phone, flash clothes, flash television. i work seven days a week. let me tell you this. we're both on the same page, then. we are paying taxes and were given it to the government and there given it to the government and there given it's people who don't want to work. i have is laid in a bed this week in the nhs. the man next to me was 62 or 60 years of old delhi my age... —— 60 is about the mac let me finish. i age... -- 60 is about the mac let me finish. . , , ,, , finish. i have supported nhs this week. i provided _ finish. i have supported nhs this week. i provided them _ finish. i have supported nhs this week. i provided them with i finish. i have supported nhs this week. i provided them with a i finish. i have supported nhs this week. i provided them with a lot| finish. i have supported nhs this l week. i provided them with a lot of -ifts week. i provided them with a lot of gifts for— week. i provided them with a lot of gifts for saving my life. but let me 'ust gifts for saving my life. but let me just say— gifts for saving my life. but let me just say this to you, young man. the man that _ just say this to you, young man. the man that sat— just say this to you, young man. the man that sat in the bed next to me said i_ man that sat in the bed next to me said i am _ man that sat in the bed next to me said i am never going to work again. he had _ said i am never going to work again. he had a _ said i am never going to work again. he had a ticket issue, something silly~ _ he had a ticket issue, something silly~ he — he had a ticket issue, something silly. he should be back to work. he said to _ silly. he should be back to work. he said to his— silly. he should be back to work. he said to his wife i am not going to id said to his wife i am not going to go back— said to his wife i am not going to go back to — said to his wife i am not going to go back to work, i'm going to get all the _ go back to work, i'm going to get all the benefits i can. you see the adverts _ all the benefits i can. you see the adverts that we get on tv? anybody is going _ adverts that we get on tv? anybody is going to _ adverts that we get on tv? anybody is going to work with a bad back. let's _ is going to work with a bad back. let's hear— is going to work with a bad back. let's hear from adie and i meant to let's hearfrom adie and i meant to funnel this into a thought for our politicians. funnel this into a thought for our politicians-— funnel this into a thought for our oliticians. . , , , ., ' politicians. the last guy put me off course really _ politicians. the last guy put me off course really with _ politicians. the last guy put me off course really with what _ politicians. the last guy put me off course really with what i _ politicians. the last guy put me off course really with what i wanted i politicians. the last guy put me off course really with what i wanted to speak about. i mean, this guy from the bank of england, these people just seem to have the audacity to want to put working—class people down. this guy is sat on millions of pounds every year and these kind of people are trying to tell people like us how to cook a meal for 30 people are trying to tell people like us how to cook a mealfor 30 p. it is so patronising. do like us how to cook a meal for 30 p. it is so patronising.— it is so patronising. do you know what i'm going _ it is so patronising. do you know what i'm going to _ it is so patronising. do you know what i'm going to do? _ it is so patronising. do you know. what i'm going to do? gentlemen, it is so patronising. do you know- what i'm going to do? gentlemen, the reason i wanted you back on, harvey, because you distill a strand of opinion in this country, there is no doubt about that. and it is expressed by, as adie mentions, the vice chair of the conservative party lee anderson. who said that anyone, not just lee anderson. who said that anyone, notjust nurses, earning more than £35,000 using food banks must have a budgeting problem. i have constituents, arm forces, binmen, bar people, pensioners and bus drivers who can all live on less. am i missing something? i think we have the popular expression of what lee anderson said that in our friend from lincoln, harvey. iltiulfiziit anderson said that in our friend from lincoln, harvey.— anderson said that in our friend from lincoln, harvey. wait a minute. you cut your— from lincoln, harvey. wait a minute. you cut your cloth _ from lincoln, harvey. wait a minute. you cut your cloth accordingly. i you cut your cloth accordingly. sorry. you cut your cloth accordingly. sor . ., , ., . sorry. know, it is ok. you cut your cloth accordingly. _ sorry. know, it is ok. you cut your cloth accordingly. you _ sorry. know, it is ok. you cut your cloth accordingly. you make i sorry. know, it is ok. you cut your cloth accordingly. you make the i sorry. know, it is ok. you cut your| cloth accordingly. you make the cut backs. cloth accordingly. you make the cut backs- paul — cloth accordingly. you make the cut backs. paul holmes, _ cloth accordingly. you make the cut backs. paul holmes, conservative l cloth accordingly. you make the cut l backs. paul holmes, conservative mp for eastleigh- — backs. paul holmes, conservative mp for eastleigh. wait _ backs. paul holmes, conservative mp for eastleigh. wait a _ backs. paul holmes, conservative mp for eastleigh. wait a minute, - for eastleigh. wait a minute, everyone. wait a minute. wait a minute, please. order, order! they know that one well. paul holmes, does lee anderson, does harvey in lincoln, do they have a point? people need to cut their cloth. he is a fellow vice chair. do you agree with your colleague, paul? i is a fellow vice chair. do you agree with your colleague, paul?- with your colleague, paul? i think what lee was _ with your colleague, paul? i think what lee was sane _ with your colleague, paul? i think what lee was sane a _ with your colleague, paul? i think what lee was sane a few- with your colleague, paul? i think what lee was sane a few months| what lee was sane a few months ago is there is a problem where we are going through a cost of living crisis at the moment that many people and our education system needs to prepare young people to prepare the budget and in life and to make sure that they live within their means. however, that doesn't mean to say that we are not going through a very difficult time at the moment with the aspects that have because the cost of living crisis in uk. and it is up slightly the government's response ability to make sure that those people who are more vulnerable in society and do that who are more needy get the support that the government is giving. you know, just yesterday that £300 payments were starting to be given to people in this country to help them through the cost of living. to help them through the cost of livina. ., ., . to help them through the cost of livina. ., . . ., to help them through the cost of livina. ., ., . ., ., living. however at... we had sandro from paisley — living. however at... we had sandro from paisley who _ living. however at... we had sandro from paisley who was _ living. however at... we had sandro from paisley who was on _ living. however at... we had sandro from paisley who was on the - living. however at... we had sandro from paisley who was on the phone | living. however at... we had sandro l from paisley who was on the phone in early one who had just received hers and she had a little luxury. she bought some leaks for £1 each. i want to know this if i could paul. do you agree with him that anyone earning more than £30,000 who is using a food bank must have a budgeting problem? do you agree with your close friend? lilo. budgeting problem? do you agree with your close friend?— your close friend? no, i don't. we are all going _ your close friend? no, i don't. we are all going through _ your close friend? no, i don't. we are all going through a _ are all going through a very difficult time at the moment. my constituents in eastleigh are going to have a difficult time at the moment. but what we are doing is making sure that we are giving people who need it absolute support, and that includes the cost of living payments, that includes the energy price guarantee. that includes the payments that were made over the course of last year as wholesale energy prices go up. that is the duty of a responsible government and thatis duty of a responsible government and that is what this government is doing. that is what this government is doinu. . .. that is what this government is doinu. . ~' ,. that is what this government is doinu. . ~ ., that is what this government is doinu. ., ., ., ., doing. thank you, paul. carla, --eole doing. thank you, paul. carla, people do _ doing. thank you, paul. carla, people do need _ doing. thank you, paul. carla, people do need to _ doing. thank you, paul. carla, people do need to learn i doing. thank you, paul. carla, people do need to learn to i doing. thank you, paul. carla, i people do need to learn to budget. paul did say that, obviously not quite as tightly as lee anderson and he appreciates the problem. he says young people need to learn to budget. is that the way ahead, carla? is a part of the problem here? i carla? is a part of the problem here? .. carla? is a part of the problem here? ~' , ., , , here? i think the problem is the vastly widening _ here? i think the problem is the vastly widening inequality i here? i think the problem is the vastly widening inequality in i here? i think the problem is the | vastly widening inequality in this country— vastly widening inequality in this country and the comments from mr pill at— country and the comments from mr pill at the _ country and the comments from mr pill at the bank of england are woefully out of touch. they come in the same _ woefully out of touch. they come in the same week that we have heard that the _ the same week that we have heard that the trussell trust has given out more — that the trussell trust has given out more food parcels this year than ever before — out more food parcels this year than ever before and we also have a headline — ever before and we also have a headline this week that the pay of the ftse — headline this week that the pay of the ftse 100 ceo tee headline this week that the pay of the ftse100 ceo tee has gone up by 23%. the ftse100 ceo tee has gone up by 23%~ in— the ftse100 ceo tee has gone up by 23%. in 2022. so not everyone is having — 23%. in 2022. so not everyone is having to _ 23%. in 2022. so not everyone is having to tighten their belts. in fact, _ having to tighten their belts. in fact, the — having to tighten their belts. in fact, the very richest in this country— fact, the very richest in this country are getting more paid than ever before. it is those that are already— ever before. it is those that are already on— ever before. it is those that are already on the lowest incomes that can least— already on the lowest incomes that can least afford to cut, they already— can least afford to cut, they already cut to the bone. they're not having _ already cut to the bone. they're not having any— already cut to the bone. they're not having any treats, if you like. those — having any treats, if you like. those are _ having any treats, if you like. those are the people that need our support _ those are the people that need our support. and the question, in the face of— support. and the question, in the face of this— support. and the question, in the face of this widening inequality, is what _ face of this widening inequality, is what are _ face of this widening inequality, is what are the government going to do to tackle _ what are the government going to do to tackle it? — what are the government going to do to tackle it? the green party position— to tackle it? the green party position is that we would introduce a wealth— position is that we would introduce a wealth tax because that widening inequality, there is inequality in income — inequality, there is inequality in income but the real widening gap is income but the real widening gap is in wealth _ income but the real widening gap is in wealth. it is in accumulated wealth. — in wealth. it is in accumulated wealth, often intergenerational wealth — wealth, often intergenerational wealth. so we would propose a really quite modest wealth tax on the limit of 1% richest people in this country. _ of 1% richest people in this country, so that is multimillionaires. that would help to tackle _ multimillionaires. that would help to tackle some of the inequality and phone _ to tackle some of the inequality and phone services... to tackle some of the inequality and phone services. . ._ to tackle some of the inequality and phone services... what if you are an elderly person _ phone services... what if you are an elderly person in — phone services... what if you are an elderly person in a _ phone services... what if you are an elderly person in a house _ phone services... what if you are an elderly person in a house in - phone services... what if you are an elderly person in a house in london| elderly person in a house in london and you have no disposable income but you happen to be in a house in london because property prices in london because property prices in london are worth 1.5 million. do they have to pay as well? this london are worth 1.5 million. do they have to pay as well?- they have to pay as well? this is still a very _ they have to pay as well? this is still a very modest _ they have to pay as well? this is still a very modest tax... - they have to pay as well? this is still a very modest tax... how i they have to pay as well? this is| still a very modest tax... how do the net still a very modest tax... how do they get the _ still a very modest tax... how do they get the money? _ still a very modest tax... how do they get the money? if _ still a very modest tax... how do they get the money? if you i still a very modest tax... how do they get the money? if you are l still a very modest tax... how do they get the money? if you are a j they get the money? if you are a multimillionaire _ they get the money? if you are a multimillionaire this _ they get the money? if you are a multimillionaire this would i they get the money? if you are a multimillionaire this would be i they get the money? if you are a multimillionaire this would be an affordable level. the alternative is our current— affordable level. the alternative is our current regressive taxation system, — our current regressive taxation system, which puts much more responsibility than they can shoulder on people on the lower incomes— shoulder on people on the lower incomes and who have no savings at all. incomes and who have no savings at all i— incomes and who have no savings at all. .. , incomes and who have no savings at all. ~ , ., ., all. i think it is worth saying that this government _ all. i think it is worth saying that this government has _ all. i think it is worth saying that this government has increased l all. i think it is worth saying that l this government has increased the national insurance threshold for people who are the lowest earners by a record amount. the green party plan simply doesn't work. when you tax wealth creators and employers, it is economic growth that suffers and it is actually the poorest people in society who bear the brunt of those wealth taxes. this government has increased taxes for high earners, it has reduced taxes for low earners. that is what we should be doing it, that is what we are doing and what we should continue to do so that to make sure that there is economic growth going to the country going forward. bdie. to the country going forward. adie, are ou to the country going forward. adie, are you still — to the country going forward. adie, are you still with _ to the country going forward. adie, are you still with us? _ to the country going forward. adie, are you still with us? yeah. - to the country going forward. adie, are you still with us? yeah. what l to the country going forward. adie, l are you still with us? yeah. what do did ou are you still with us? yeah. what do did you think— are you still with us? yeah. what do did you think when _ are you still with us? yeah. what do did you think when you _ are you still with us? yeah. what do did you think when you heard - are you still with us? yeah. what do did you think when you heard from l did you think when you heard from huw pill. _ did you think when you heard from huw pill, the chief economist at the bank of— huw pill, the chief economist at the bank of england. he said the times have changed. we are in a completely new era _ have changed. we are in a completely new era now. — have changed. we are in a completely new era now, we are poorer and need to get— new era now, we are poorer and need to get used _ new era now, we are poorer and need to get used to it and accept it. it isjust— to get used to it and accept it. it isiust a — to get used to it and accept it. it isjust a fact to get used to it and accept it. it is just a fact of life. what yellow. who does — is just a fact of life. what yellow. who does he mean is poorer? him or the rest of us? the rest of us i suspect. i mean, people like this, they really don't care. they keep coming up with the same narrative all the time, saying all you lot, all the time, saying all you lot, all you unemployed, all you self—employed, you need to cut your cloth accordingly. i am working seven days a week now. three years ago i was working four days a week to be able to do what i like to do. now i'm having to work seven days a week and i can't do a lot of the stuff i like to do because i'm working. because people can't afford to get stuff done. so i'm struggling as a sole trader to be able to do what i did three orfour as a sole trader to be able to do what i did three or four years ago. and now they're telling me i have to cut my cloth more accordingly. i can't cut it any more. i've never used a food bank to be honest but i'm having to work 70 hours a week to be able to do what i did three to four years ago. to be able to do what i did three to four years ago-— to be able to do what i did three to four years ago. what you do, adie? i'm a landscaper. — four years ago. what you do, adie? i'm a landscaper, so _ four years ago. what you do, adie? i'm a landscaper, so it— four years ago. what you do, adie? i'm a landscaper, so it is— four years ago. what you do, adie? i'm a landscaper, so it is hard i i'm a landscaper, so it is hard graft. that guy at the bank of england, i will invite him to come and do a couple days with me he wants. i'm sure he'd last about half an hour. if that.— an hour. if that. yeah, make sure ou an hour. if that. yeah, make sure you don't— an hour. if that. yeah, make sure you don't do _ an hour. if that. yeah, make sure you don't do your _ an hour. if that. yeah, make sure you don't do your back— an hour. if that. yeah, make sure you don't do your back in. - an hour. if that. yeah, make sure you don't do your back in. and i an hour. if that. yeah, make sure| you don't do your back in. and any mp who is — you don't do your back in. and any mp who is on _ you don't do your back in. and any mp who is on there _ you don't do your back in. and any mp who is on there as _ you don't do your back in. and any mp who is on there as well, i'd invite them to come and do that. i’m invite them to come and do that. i'm sure they would gleefully accept your invitation live on air! let’s your invitation live on air! let's wait until— your invitation live on air! let's wait until it's _ your invitation live on air! let's wait until it's blowing - your invitation live on air! let's wait until it's blowing a - your invitation live on air! let's wait until it's blowing a gale i your invitation live on air! lzit�*s wait until it's blowing a gale and hail stoning and they can come and do a shift. ~ ., hail stoning and they can come and do a shift. a, do a shift. moving the boxing debris, exactly, _ do a shift. moving the boxing debris, exactly, with - do a shift. moving the boxing debris, exactly, with the - do a shift. moving the boxing debris, exactly, with the cold do a shift. moving the boxing - debris, exactly, with the cold earth and rocks underfingernails. the? and rocks under fingernails. they don't live and _ and rocks under fingernails. they don't live and never— and rocks under fingernails. they don't live and never will- and rocks under fingernails. he don't live and never will live and rocks under fingernails. tue don't live and never will live in the same world is what we do and thatis the same world is what we do and that is all there is to it. and all the three mps sat there don't either. i listen to this every week and you get your tories and your labour and all they want to do is have a dig at each other. and that is what i hear every week. nothing is what i hear every week. nothing is ever going to change because they don't want it to change, they quite like to keep us down, don't they? well, let's hearfrom stephen. of course keir starmer is turning your party into... course keir starmer is turning your party int0- - -_ party into... well, keir starmer is 'ust a party into... well, keir starmer is just a dye — party into... well, keir starmer is just a dye tory- — party into... well, keir starmer is just a dye tory. well, _ party into... well, keir starmer is just a dye tory. well, i'm - party into... well, keir starmer is just a dye tory. well, i'm saying l party into... well, keir starmer is | just a dye tory. well, i'm saying to stehen, just a dye tory. well, i'm saying to stephen. not _ just a dye tory. well, i'm saying to stephen, not the _ just a dye tory. well, i'm saying to stephen, not the view _ just a dye tory. well, i'm saying to stephen, not the view of _ just a dye tory. well, i'm saying to . stephen, not the view of management necessary, ijust put points. on the point is, stephen kinnock, he has turned you into new labour and got rid of all the carbonates and of course with new labour peter mandelson, who i believe is still advising keir starmer said that his relatively relaxed about the filthy rich. so are you the party for adie, stephen kinnock?— rich. so are you the party for adie, stephen kinnock? well, what i would sa is it is stephen kinnock? well, what i would say is it is a — stephen kinnock? well, what i would say is it is a disgrace _ stephen kinnock? well, what i would say is it is a disgrace that _ stephen kinnock? well, what i would say is it is a disgrace that we - stephen kinnock? well, what i would say is it is a disgrace that we live - say is it is a disgrace that we live in the _ say is it is a disgrace that we live in the fifth — say is it is a disgrace that we live in the fifth largest economy in the world _ in the fifth largest economy in the world and — in the fifth largest economy in the world and there are more food banks in this— world and there are more food banks in this country than there are branches— in this country than there are branches of mcdonald's. and that tells you — branches of mcdonald's. and that tells you all you need to know about 13 years _ tells you all you need to know about 13 years of _ tells you all you need to know about 13 years of abject tory failure. they— 13 years of abject tory failure. they have _ 13 years of abject tory failure. they have got the highest taxes on working _ they have got the highest taxes on working people in our history and the lowest growth. if the economy had continued to grow at the rate it did in_ had continued to grow at the rate it did in the _ had continued to grow at the rate it did in the years that labour was in power. _ did in the years that labour was in power. we — did in the years that labour was in power, we would have £40 billion more _ power, we would have £40 billion more now— power, we would have £40 billion more now to spend on public services _ more now to spend on public services. sol more now to spend on public services. so i think a lot of this is about— services. so i think a lot of this is about fairness. we want growth, we want _ is about fairness. we want growth, we want everybody to cut their cloth, — we want everybody to cut their cloth, as — we want everybody to cut their cloth, as one of your other caller said, _ cloth, as one of your other caller said. but— cloth, as one of your other caller said, but that has to be fair. we can't _ said, but that has to be fair. we can't be — said, but that has to be fair. we can't be in — said, but that has to be fair. we can't be in a _ said, but that has to be fair. we can't be in a situation where working _ can't be in a situation where working people are seeing their quality— working people are seeing their quality of life going backwards. where — quality of life going backwards. where they can expect a poorer quality — where they can expect a poorer quality of — where they can expect a poorer quality of life for their children than _ quality of life for their children than they have had. was that certain people _ than they have had. was that certain people at— than they have had. was that certain people at the top of society art making — people at the top of society art making an absolute fortune. in a post _ making an absolute fortune. in a post look— making an absolute fortune. in a post look at the energy companies, this is— post look at the energy companies, this is the _ post look at the energy companies, this is the windfall of war. these company— this is the windfall of war. these company is — this is the windfall of war. these company is making huge profits off the back— company is making huge profits off the back of putin's barbaric invaston— the back of putin's barbaric invasion of ukraine. this government fails and _ invasion of ukraine. this government fails and refuses to put a proper windfatt— fails and refuses to put a proper windfall tax on them, which would generate — windfall tax on them, which would generate the money that we need to build growth and deliver those public— build growth and deliver those public services. so this is a story about— public services. so this is a story about growth and it is a story about fairness _ about growth and it is a story about fairness gn— about growth and it is a story about fairness. ., ., fairness. on the windfall tax, sor ,i fairness. on the windfall tax, sorry. i just _ fairness. on the windfall tax, sorry, i just want _ fairness. on the windfall tax, sorry, i just want to - fairness. on the windfall tax, sorry, i just want to get - fairness. on the windfall tax, i sorry, i just want to get through quite a few things here. the ftse 250 company and they have made the point about the windfall tax because it has gone from 40% to 65% and 75% rate in january and first, it has gone from 40% to 65% and 75% rate injanuary and first, the tax rates on uk oil and tax companies. and they say it would lead to a drop in investment in the basin. it would harm the uk's energy security and also total energy, the french oil and gas giant, has said it will cut not investment by 25% this year because of the tax, so it is not that simple is it, stephen? well, they would _ that simple is it, stephen? well, they would say — that simple is it, stephen? well, they would say that, _ that simple is it, stephen? well, they would say that, wouldn't - that simple is it, stephen? -tt they would say that, wouldn't they? let's not forget that they chairman of... said that the effect of the russian war is to make a cash machine for the company. this is not expected to forecast is profit in directive directly by putin's barbaric invasion of ukraine. it is about government and politics is about government and politics is about choices and do you choose to support the wealthiest at the top of society or do you actually choose to stand up for people like adie, hard—working people, hard graft and people who are trying to make ends meet but are not being supported by this government and have been desperately let down by 13 years of tory failure? and that is why i hope what i say to adie as we are desperate for change. the country is crying out for change. we desperate for change. the country is crying out for change.— crying out for change. we know that we are desperate _ crying out for change. we know that we are desperate for— crying out for change. we know that we are desperate for change - crying out for change. we know that we are desperate for change but - crying out for change. we know that we are desperate for change but i i we are desperate for change but i wouldn't — we are desperate for change but i wouldn't trust the labour party to -et wouldn't trust the labour party to get that — wouldn't trust the labour party to get that i— wouldn't trust the labour party to get that. i have been a labour voter for 35— get that. i have been a labour voter for 35 years. — get that. i have been a labour voter for 35 years, my dad was a miner in barnstey~ _ for 35 years, my dad was a miner in barnsley. but i wouldn't vote labour now _ barnsley. but i wouldn't vote labour now i_ barnsley. but i wouldn't vote labour now i canre — barnsley. but i wouldn't vote labour now. i came out of the labour party, iwouldn't _ now. i came out of the labour party, i wouldn't vote for them. not whilst keir starmer is in charge. he is one of the _ keir starmer is in charge. he is one of the establishment, he is not for us, of the establishment, he is not for us. is _ of the establishment, he is not for us. is he? — of the establishment, he is not for us, is he? i'm sorry to hear that but i _ us, is he? i'm sorry to hear that but i think— us, is he? i'm sorry to hear that but i think it _ us, is he? i'm sorry to hear that but i think it is about what we do and what — but i think it is about what we do and what we stand for. i�*m but i think it is about what we do and what we stand for.— and what we stand for. i'm 'ust interested fl and what we stand for. i'm 'ust interested in i and what we stand for. i'm 'ust interested in adie's * and what we stand for. i'm just interested in adie's view... - and what we stand for. i'm just| interested in adie's view... you don't stand _ interested in adie's view. .. you don't stand for— interested in adie's view... you don't stand for the _ interested in adie's view... ym. don't stand for the same thing that you used to stand for. keir starmer sacked somebody for being on a picket line. that would never have happened 20 years ago for psion adie, i don't know who you plan to vote for let's not forget that under liz truss... t vote for let's not forget that under liz truss- - -_ liz truss... i won't be voting for labour, liz truss... i won't be voting for labour. that's — liz truss... i won't be voting for labour, that's for _ liz truss... i won't be voting for labour, that's for certain. - liz truss... i won't be voting for labour, that's for certain. put i labour, that's for certain. put massive amounts _ labour, that's for certain. put massive amounts on - labour, that's for certain. tint massive amounts on people's interest rates and terms of paying back their mortgages. we are still picking up the pieces from that. i hope if you want to vote for a party that is about economic responsibility but also about rebuilding our country, there is only one party to vote for and that is the labour party. t and that is the labour party. i think that is very rich when it comes— think that is very rich when it comes from _ think that is very rich when it comes from the _ think that is very rich when it comes from the labour- think that is very rich when it comes from the labour party think that is very rich when it - comes from the labour party that smashed — comes from the labour party that smashed the _ comes from the labour party that smashed the economy _ comes from the labour party that smashed the economy in - comes from the labour party that smashed the economy in 2010. l comes from the labour party that. smashed the economy in 2010. here comes from the labour party that smashed the economy in 2010. here we i o, smashed the economy in 2010. here we to, all we smashed the economy in 2010. here we go. all we are — smashed the economy in 2010. here we go. all we are doing _ smashed the economy in 2010. here we go, all we are doing now... _ smashed the economy in 2010. here we go, all we are doing now... smashed i go, all we are doing now... smashed economy under— go, all we are doing now... smashed economy under liz _ go, all we are doing now... smashed economy under liz truss. _ go, all we are doing now... smashed economy under liz truss. this - go, all we are doing now... smashed economy under liz truss. this is - go, all we are doing now... smashed economy under liz truss. this is a i economy under liz truss. this is a roblem economy under liz truss. this is a problem that _ economy under liz truss. this is a problem that the _ economy under liz truss. this is a problem that the labour _ economy under liz truss. this is a problem that the labour party - economy under liz truss. this is a | problem that the labour party has. adie systematic— problem that the labour party has. adie systematic of— problem that the labour party has. adie systematic of a _ problem that the labour party has. adie systematic of a problem - problem that the labour party has. adie systematic of a problem the l adie systematic of a problem the labour— adie systematic of a problem the labour party— adie systematic of a problem the labour party has. _ adie systematic of a problem the labour party has. stephen - adie systematic of a problem the labour party has. stephen has i adie systematic of a problem the i labour party has. stephen hasjust said they— labour party has. stephen hasjust said they wanted _ labour party has. stephen hasjust said they wanted a _ labour party has. stephen hasjust said they wanted a proper- labour party has. stephen hasjust said they wanted a proper wealth i labour party has. stephen hasjust. said they wanted a proper wealth tax on companies — said they wanted a proper wealth tax on companies. nicky— said they wanted a proper wealth tax on companies. nicky has _ said they wanted a proper wealth tax on companies. nicky hasjust- on companies. nicky hasjust outlined _ on companies. nicky hasjust outlined that— on companies. nicky hasjust outlined that 75% _ on companies. nicky hasjust outlined that 75% of - on companies. nicky hasjustl outlined that 75% of revenues on companies. nicky hasjust- outlined that 75% of revenues from energy— outlined that 75% of revenues from energy companies— outlined that 75% of revenues from energy companies in _ outlined that 75% of revenues from energy companies in the _ outlined that 75% of revenues from energy companies in the uk - outlined that 75% of revenues from energy companies in the uk is- outlined that 75% of revenues from. energy companies in the uk is taxed under— energy companies in the uk is taxed under this— energy companies in the uk is taxed under this government. _ energy companies in the uk is taxed under this government. and - energy companies in the uk is taxed under this government. and labourl under this government. and labour have to _ under this government. and labour have to get — under this government. and labour have to get serious _ under this government. and labour have to get serious with _ under this government. and labour have to get serious with the - under this government. and labour have to get serious with the britishl have to get serious with the british public— have to get serious with the british public that— have to get serious with the british public that we _ have to get serious with the british public that we have _ have to get serious with the british public that we have delivered - have to get serious with the british public that we have delivered on i public that we have delivered on that _ public that we have delivered on that you — public that we have delivered on that. you called _ public that we have delivered on that. you called for— public that we have delivered on that. you called for one... - public that we have delivered on that. you called for one... full. public that we have delivered on that. you called for one... full of loopholes- _ that. you called for one... full of loopholes. what _ that. you called for one... full of loopholes. what tax _ that. you called for one... full of loopholes. what tax rate - that. you called for one... full of loopholes. what tax rate would l that. you called for one... full of. loopholes. what tax rate would you introduce? you _ loopholes. what tax rate would you introduce? you need _ loopholes. what tax rate would you introduce? you need to _ loopholes. what tax rate would you introduce? you need to close i loopholes. what tax rate would you introduce? you need to close the l introduce? you need to close the rate that limit _ introduce? you need to close the rate that limit loophole. - introduce? you need to close the rate that limit loophole. all i introduce? you need to close the rate that limit loophole. all the l rate that limit loophole. all the cunning — rate that limit loophole. all the cunning tricks that stop them payingm _ cunning tricks that stop them paying... the windfall tax that we have _ paying... the windfall tax that we have proposed... paying... the windfall tax that we have proposed. . ._ paying... the windfall tax that we have proposed... what is the rate? the windfall — have proposed... what is the rate? the windfall tax _ have proposed... what is the rate? the windfall tax we _ have proposed... what is the rate? the windfall tax we have... - have proposed... what is the rate? the windfall tax we have... that i have proposed... what is the rate? the windfall tax we have... that is | the windfall tax we have... that is a fair _ the windfall tax we have... that is a fair windfall tax and that is about— a fair windfall tax and that is about having... i a fair windfall tax and that is about having. . ._ a fair windfall tax and that is about havine... ., . ., �* about having... i notice you won't sa what about having... i notice you won't say what the _ about having... i notice you won't say what the rate _ about having... i notice you won't say what the rate is. _ about having... i notice you won't say what the rate is. you - about having... i notice you won't say what the rate is. you talk i about having... i notice you won't i say what the rate is. you talk about one and _ say what the rate is. you talk about one and you — say what the rate is. you talk about one and you can't _ say what the rate is. you talk about one and you can't even _ say what the rate is. you talk about one and you can't even advocate i say what the rate is. you talk about one and you can't even advocate to| one and you can't even advocate to listeners _ one and you can't even advocate to listeners what _ one and you can't even advocate to listeners what you're _ one and you can't even advocate to listeners what you're windfall - one and you can't even advocate to listeners what you're windfall tax l listeners what you're windfall tax rate would — listeners what you're windfall tax rate would be. _ listeners what you're windfall tax rate would be. that _ listeners what you're windfall tax rate would be. that is— listeners what you're windfall tax rate would be. that is what - listeners what you're windfall tax rate would be. that is what the l rate would be. that is what the labour — rate would be. that is what the labour party— rate would be. that is what the labour party is _ rate would be. that is what the labour party is if— rate would be. that is what the labour party is if i— rate would be. that is what the labour party is if i may- rate would be. that is what the labour party is if i may come . rate would be. that is what the| labour party is if i may come in rate would be. that is what the i labour party is if i may come in for a minute — labour party is if i may come in for a minute. .,, ., , labour party is if i may come in for a minute. ., , , .,, a minute. the most egregious problem with the windfall _ a minute. the most egregious problem with the windfall tax _ a minute. the most egregious problem with the windfall tax is _ a minute. the most egregious problem with the windfall tax is a _ with the windfall tax is a conservative party have currently introduced is that fossil fuel companies can get back 9ip in every pound if they invest in more fossil fuel projects. and yet that loophole doesn't exist for renewable energy projects. so the conservative government are actively choosing to encourage energy companies to invest more in oil and gas, which is more expensive way of generating energy than renewables is. so what good is a windfall tax when actually we are only getting 9p of it because they can invest in drilling more oil and gas, which is not only bad for our environment, it is bad for the economy because those fossil fuels need to stay in the ground to stop runaway climate change. and so investing in that new drilling, that new infrastructure is going to be stranded assets. people have got their pension is invested in those, and many people do, they are going to lose out in the long run because their money is invested in oil and gas that cannot be drilled out of the ground and cannot be burnt. yes, we need a windfall tax and a proper watertight one without all those massive loopholes. but we also need to look at how our entire tax system works and that is why the greens want to see a wealth tax. that wealth tax will pay for, independent estimates from the university of greenwich that it will raise around £70 billion. that will go towards properly funded public services that will help people like adie but it will help people like adie but it will help people like adie but it will help all kinds of people from different backgrounds in the country and we can use it to do things that increasing universal credit, which is currently not paying for the basic standards for people to be able to heat their homes and eat properly. able to heat their homes and eat ro erl . . ~ able to heat their homes and eat --roerl. . ~' able to heat their homes and eat --roerl. ., ,, , able to heat their homes and eat --roerl. . ~ , . properly. ok, thank you very much indeed, caledonia, _ properly. ok, thank you very much indeed, caledonia, green - properly. ok, thank you very much indeed, caledonia, green party. i properly. ok, thank you very much i indeed, caledonia, green party. paul holmes, stephen kinnock. it was great to have you all on. some good interesting exchanges and adie, a landscaper. you are a top man, adie. thanks for coming on this morning and contributing.— thanks for coming on this morning and contributing. they are bickering between themselves, _ and contributing. they are bickering between themselves, that - and contributing. they are bickering between themselves, that is - between themselves, that is everything that is wrong with it. interesting exchanges, not bickering!— interesting exchanges, not bickerine! �* ., bickering! arguing with each other and talkin: bickering! arguing with each other and talking of— bickering! arguing with each other and talking of the _ bickering! arguing with each other and talking of the top _ bickering! arguing with each other and talking of the top of— bickering! arguing with each other and talking of the top of each i and talking of the top of each other, that is why we will never get anywhere. they don't really care, do they? t anywhere. they don't really care, do the ? ., , anywhere. they don't really care, do the ? ., ~' anywhere. they don't really care, do the ? ., ,, ., ., anywhere. they don't really care, do the ? ., ~'., ., ~ anywhere. they don't really care, do the ? ., ~' ., ., r we they? i hope we talk again, adie. we will do. they? i hope we talk again, adie. we will do- mo — they? i hope we talk again, adie. we will do- mo is— they? i hope we talk again, adie. we will do. mo is in _ they? i hope we talk again, adie. we will do. mo is in reading. _ they? i hope we talk again, adie. we will do. mo is in reading. hello, i will do. mo is in reading. hello, no. that talk _ will do. mo is in reading. hello, no. that talk about _ will do. mo is in reading. hello, no. that talk about your - will do. mo is in reading. hello, | no. that talk about your relatives and ask a question of our politicians was yellow sure, no problem. ijust politicians was yellow sure, no problem. i just obviously first and foremost want to personally thank the raf, the army, the government for their involvement in the evacuation mission in sudan. mi; evacuation mission in sudan. my sister evacuation mission in sudan. it’i1: sister and evacuation mission in sudan. m1 sister and mother evacuation mission in sudan. m1! sister and mother are evacuation mission in sudan. li1 sister and mother are actually en route now from cyprus to london, so hopefully they will be arriving soon safely. however, my question is why has it taken so long for the british government to react? and will we see a similar support effort for the sudanese people, as we have witnessed in ukraine?- witnessed in ukraine? very interesting _ witnessed in ukraine? very interesting question. i witnessed in ukraine? very interesting question. and l witnessed in ukraine? very interesting question. and you are sudanese, mo, iask? . interesting question. and you are sudanese, mo, i ask?— interesting question. and you are sudanese, mo, i ask? , well, i am sudanese — sudanese, mo, i ask? , well, i am sudanese originally _ sudanese, mo, i ask? , well, i am sudanese originally booked - sudanese, mo, i ask? , well, i am sudanese originally booked for i sudanese, mo, i ask? , well, i am| sudanese originally booked for with this action you can pommie tell i have been here a while. for this action you can pommie tell i have been here a while. for sure. so what was their _ have been here a while. for sure. so what was theirjourney _ have been here a while. for sure. so what was theirjourney like _ have been here a while. for sure. so what was theirjourney like and i have been here a while. for sure. so what was theirjourney like and were | what was theirjourney like and were theyin what was theirjourney like and were they in khartoum or elsewhere and how did they get to the airfield? they were in khartoum, we spoke yesterday. they were stuck right in the middle of the conflict. they managed to get away to a slightly safe area. they travelled to the airspace, well, the base camp that they have out there. managed to fly out to cyprus, they got there around 2pm and actually set off at 11pm. 2pm and actually set off at "pm. and ijust had a phone call this morning from them in cyprus around 7:30am and they were about to board within the next hour or so. so they're within the next hour or so. so they�* re currently within the next hour or so. so they're currently on the flight to london. ~ . ~ they're currently on the flight to london. ~ ., ,, ., ., ,, they're currently on the flight to london. ~ ., ,, ,, ., they're currently on the flight to london. ., ,, ,, ., ., london. well, thank goodness for all that. it london. well, thank goodness for all that- it must — london. well, thank goodness for all that. it must be _ london. well, thank goodness for all that. it must be a _ london. well, thank goodness for all that. it must be a huge, _ london. well, thank goodness for all that. it must be a huge, huge - london. well, thank goodness for all that. it must be a huge, huge reliefl that. it must be a huge, huge relief for you. that. it must be a huge, huge relief for ou. ~ , , that. it must be a huge, huge relief for ou. ~ , ., that. it must be a huge, huge relief for , for you. absolutely. to be quite honest with _ for you. absolutely. to be quite honest with you _ for you. absolutely. to be quite honest with you it _ for you. absolutely. to be quite honest with you it has - for you. absolutely. to be quite honest with you it has been i for you. absolutely. to be quite| honest with you it has been very difficult to watch all the images and knowing that they are stuck out there. but thank god in the end all these efforts have come to fruition. i was even sad for them to leave the people behind and hence my question is. . people behind and hence my question is. , ., ., ., is. ok. listen, iwant to and i need to no to is. ok. listen, iwant to and i need to go to the _ is. ok. listen, iwant to and i need to go to the news _ is. ok. listen, iwant to and i need to go to the news on _ is. ok. listen, iwant to and i need to go to the news on time - is. ok. listen, iwant to and i need to go to the news on time this i to go to the news on time this morning. it is in four minutes' time so i want to get a quick response from all of you with respect, if i could, on this. paul holmes, why is the response, as mo says, why did it take so long to respond?— take so long to respond? firstly, can i 'ust take so long to respond? firstly, can i just say _ take so long to respond? firstly, can i just say that _ take so long to respond? firstly, can i just say that i'm _ take so long to respond? firstly, can i just say that i'm delighted i take so long to respond? firstly, l can i just say that i'm delighted to can ijust say that i'm delighted to hear that mo's family are coming back and i also pay tribute to the armed forces that have been actually in action since sunday, when we evacuated our diplomatic staff and flight started yesterday and are ongoing. the prime minister actually very quickly acted on this. there were numerous meetings went ahead. our allies were evacuating people at around the same time and we have flights now coming. it is a very, very difficult situation out there. at the moment, the air base that we are using is being guarded by the germans and we have our troops out there and we are evacuating as many people as we can while we have this window with the ceasefire that is going on. around 72 hours. but we are acting very quickly to make sure that we can get british nationals back to this country and i'm delighted that no's family are on their way and back in cyprus and will be with him soon. we their way and back in cyprus and will be with him soon.— will be with him soon. we will extend this — will be with him soon. we will extend this conversation i will be with him soon. we will extend this conversation after! will be with him soon. we will i extend this conversation after the news. can ijust ask extend this conversation after the news. can i just ask you extend this conversation after the news. can ijust ask you another question? and of course stephen and carla you can come in and gather your thoughts and maybe express those after the news on the spot. i just want to ask you, paul, if somebody were fleeing that war zone and it is a hell in the making in khartoum and also elsewhere between the two military factions, the two so—called strongmen, the men with the medals. tragically familiar story of our species. if summary were to be fleeing the war zone and had relatives in this country but were not a british national, might they be sent to rwanda? this were not a british national, might they be sent to rwanda?- were not a british national, might they be sent to rwanda? this is in our immigration _ they be sent to rwanda? this is in our immigration proposals. - they be sent to rwanda? this is in i our immigration proposals. everyone that comes to this country has a right to apply for asylum and the bill that we have put forward will make sure that the system works better and that those who genuinely need to come to this country will be welcome here. but those who are here for other purposes are swiftly removed. for other purposes are swiftly removed-— for other purposes are swiftly removed. �* , ., removed. but if somebody came from khartoum fleeing _ removed. but if somebody came from khartoum fleeing the _ removed. but if somebody came from khartoum fleeing the war _ removed. but if somebody came from khartoum fleeing the war zone, i removed. but if somebody came from khartoum fleeing the war zone, they l khartoum fleeing the war zone, they would do the application while they were in rwanda, is that how it would work was yellow if they would come come to this country, they would submit an application and it would be looked at the limit by the home office and the government. that is exactly why we have brought legislation in to make sure that those who have a right to be here can have an application go forward. it can be determined more successfully and quickly and then they would be able to put the application forward. but what is right is the british public expect and do expect people in this country and do expect people in this country and people coming to this country to be dealt with swiftly. but they also want to stop the boats, stop the illegal boats that are coming average this country, and that is something the prime minister has been very clear on from the start. paul, in brighton and hove there are two young _ paul, in brighton and hove there are two young girls and their mother who are refugees from sedan who are living _ are refugees from sedan who are living in— are refugees from sedan who are living in brighton and hove at the moment— living in brighton and hove at the moment and the government is trying to send _ moment and the government is trying to send them back to sedan. the green _ to send them back to sedan. the green council leaders in brighton and hove — green council leaders in brighton and hove are trying to stop that happening and they are seeing no recognition from the government about— recognition from the government about how ridiculous that proposal is -- _ about how ridiculous that proposal is -- 23~ _ about how ridiculous that proposal is -- 25 it— about how ridiculous that proposal is —— 23. it goes to show how inhumane _ is —— 23. it goes to show how inhumane these things are that you are planning to do so much harm to sudanese _ are planning to do so much harm to sudanese people who are planning to come here. _ sudanese people who are planning to come here, running fortheir lives. everyone _ come here, running fortheir lives. everyone will have a right to make sure that they can apply to stay in this country. sure that they can apply to stay in this country-— sure that they can apply to stay in this country. why do you think it is appropriate _ this country. why do you think it is appropriate to _ this country. why do you think it is appropriate to send _ this country. why do you think it is appropriate to send two _ this country. why do you think it is appropriate to send two children . this country. why do you think it is | appropriate to send two children to sudan? _ appropriate to send two children to sudan? ~ ., ., ., . ., appropriate to send two children to sudan? . ., ., ., . ., , sudan? what we have made clear is that we will — sudan? what we have made clear is that we will allow _ sudan? what we have made clear is that we will allow people _ sudan? what we have made clear is that we will allow people to - that we will allow people to come through safe and legal roots and we will continue to provide us legislation comes forward on the british people expect that illegal migration is put under control. that hasn't happened in the previous government and quite frankly it hasn't happened under this government. but that is why the prime minister has absolutely put it at the centre point of his agenda because that is what the british people expect. they expect their government have their own strict immigration. government have their own strict immigration-— immigration. you can 'ust in a second or two. i immigration. you can 'ust in a second or two. you i immigration. you canjust in a second or two. you are i immigration. you canjust in a second or two. you are on i immigration. you can just in a i second or two. you are on standby, you are on hold. you can come right after the news and the spot. you are all very animated this morning. more coming with our politicians. it is 10:30am. here is the news. around 250 british nationals — who have escaped sudan — are now on a plane from cyprus to the uk. thousands have been trying to flee the country — during a ceasefire between rival military factions — after over a week of fighting. the general leading the evacuation from france says he is ready. mps are due to debate the illegal migration bill later. the home secretary told the bbc that ministers wanted to create a strong element of deterrent — around illegal arrivals. but some conservatives are unsure about backing the plans — which would allow children to be detained. the uk's largest foodbank provider says it's handed out more emergency parcels than ever before — over the past year. the trussell trust said it supplied nearly three million parcels — over a third more — than the year before.the boss of unipart — a major uk manufacturing firm — has told the bbc he's considering moving investment to the us or europe — because they're offering new subsidies. john neil said he wanted to invest in britain — but that uk companies couldn't "compete — on a level playing field". these are the news headlines. it's one of the biggest games in the english top flight for a decade as manchester city host arsenal, but both managers keen to stress it will not be a premier league title decider. a win for city at the etihad would see them close the gap on leaders arsenal to two points with two games in hand. arsenal would move eight points clear with a win. this season's fa cup final between manchester city and manchester united on 3june will revert to a 3pm kick—off.|t will be the first time the game has started at 3pm since city beat stoke in 2011. aston villa manager unai emery says the dreams are good for everybody. emery�*s taken villa from the brink of the bottom three to the top five since taking charge in november, and are in contention for european football next season. england defender lucy bronze has undergone keyhole surgery on her knee. it's after she limped off during barcelona's 1—0 first—leg win over chelsea in the women's champions league semi—final at stamford bridge. bronze will miss tomorrow's return leg, and is set for a fortnight on the sidelines. and jakjones and mark allen are in their quarter—final at the world snooker championship — while anthony mcgill and si jiahui are first to 13 reaches the semi—finals — you watch on bbc2 or the bbc sport website right now. you can watch on bbc two and the bbc sport website right now. we have our three politicians and we have your questions and some interesting debate. we are talking right now, before the news about the specific situation in sudan. the general situation on immigration and asylum. i am a man of my word, i will come to you, i saw a pole, i have in front of me, carried out between april the 6th and april the 11th, do you support the government planned to send asylum seekers to rwanda 246% support, 28% pose, neither —— 8% don't know. that is quite a lot of people who think this is a good idea, stephen. to quite a lot of people who think this is a good idea, stephen.— is a good idea, stephen. to come back on something _ is a good idea, stephen. to come back on something posted - is a good idea, stephen. to come back on something posted earlier! back on something posted earlier which was factually incorrect. and? are you ignoring that point? i will come back to it. he said people who come back to it. he said people who come here, under the terms of the bill we are debating today, people who come here on small boats will be banned from seeking asylum in this country. it is important to put that in there. in effect, this bill will ban people from applying for asylum if they came over in small boats. we are absolutely clear that the small boats are something that need to be stopped. dangerous channel crossings only benefit people smugglers profiting in human misery. he mentioned the poll, getting into the detail, the support will ebb away because the government in rwanda has made clear it only has capacity for two or 300 people in rwanda that we might send there. that will not act as a deterrent. if you have come across europe and risk your life and eat a people smuggler thousands of pounds to take a life—threatening journey across the channel, you will take those odds. the idea that rwanda will work as a deterrent and will end the dangerous channel crossings is frankly for the birds. when that becomes more obvious, people will stop supporting it. fundamentally, we need a plan that will work rather than headline chasing gimmicks. labour has a five—point plan using the money that is wasted on rwanda on a proper... 46%? it's a significant amount of people listening now. why do they like the idea?— like the idea? when the facts and results come _ like the idea? when the facts and results come in, _ like the idea? when the facts and results come in, they _ like the idea? when the facts and results come in, they will- like the idea? when the facts and results come in, they will realise | results come in, they will realise it is not succeeding. we have seen channel crossing rocketing and continuing to rocket since the rwanda plan was announced. we were told only the announcement would act as a deterrent. people want the dangerous channel crossings to end and they willjudge the government based on its results. we need a proper returns deal with the european union, we need to offer safe and legal routes that can help us secure that returns deal. we need to fix the broken resettlement schemes like the afghanistan scheme where only 22 people came under the afghanistan pathway last year. these people put their lives on the line, risking their lives in support of british forces and diplomats in afghanistan. it is frankly disgraceful we do not do more to support them. a lot needs to be done, based on common sense, hard graft, quite diplomacy rather than headline chasing gimmicks we are seeing from this government. that is the key problem- _ seeing from this government. that is the key problem. he _ seeing from this government. that is the key problem. he is _ seeing from this government. that is the key problem. he is shadow- the key problem. he is shadow immigration minister, there have been _ immigration minister, there have been numerous parts of legislation come _ been numerous parts of legislation come through from this government to make sure _ come through from this government to make sure there is a firm and fair immigration— make sure there is a firm and fair immigration system in this country. at every— immigration system in this country. at every stage, the labour party have _ at every stage, the labour party have voted against tougher legislation to make sure our system works— legislation to make sure our system works and _ legislation to make sure our system works and that we have people who are entitled to come here come here. never— are entitled to come here come here. never has _ are entitled to come here come here. never has he — are entitled to come here come here. never has he in the house and neither— never has he in the house and neither has a labour party, this is their— neither has a labour party, this is their problem again, never have the ever said _ their problem again, never have the ever said what they would do. all he has done _ ever said what they would do. all he has done even on this show is speak in platitudes about why he opposes a fair immigration system. every stage in the _ fair immigration system. every stage in the house of commons. labour's record _ in the house of commons. labour's record on— in the house of commons. labour's record on this government is dire. art has— record on this government is dire. art has not— record on this government is dire. art has not been as good as it should — art has not been as good as it should be _ art has not been as good as it should be. this prime minister is making _ should be. this prime minister is making sure we absolutely deliver on illegal— making sure we absolutely deliver on illegal immigration and stop the boats _ illegal immigration and stop the boats at— illegal immigration and stop the boats. at every stage, the labour party— boats. at every stage, the labour party have — boats. at every stage, the labour party have not been clear with the british— party have not been clear with the british public about what they would do and _ british public about what they would do and theyjust oppose. they have a couple _ do and theyjust oppose. they have a couple of— do and theyjust oppose. they have a couple of hours to show the british public— couple of hours to show the british public that— couple of hours to show the british public that they are serious about starting _ public that they are serious about starting this problem, a problem which _ starting this problem, a problem which my— starting this problem, a problem which my constituents talk to me about _ which my constituents talk to me about on— which my constituents talk to me about on a — which my constituents talk to me about on a daily basis. do which my constituents talk to me about on a daily basis.— which my constituents talk to me about on a daily basis. do they want to stop the — about on a daily basis. do they want to stop the boats _ about on a daily basis. do they want to stop the boats or _ about on a daily basis. do they want to stop the boats or stop _ to stop the boats or stop immigration?— to stop the boats or stop immigration? to stop the boats or stop immiaration? , ., ., , .,, immigration? they have no problem with immigration, _ immigration? they have no problem with immigration, this _ immigration? they have no problem with immigration, this government i with immigration, this government has no _ with immigration, this government has no problem with emigration, we have outlined very clearly safe and le-al have outlined very clearly safe and legal routes we will continue to outline — legal routes we will continue to outline safe and legal writs as we have _ outline safe and legal writs as we have done — outline safe and legal writs as we have done in the past. they are the ways— have done in the past. they are the ways in— have done in the past. they are the ways in which people should come in and claim _ ways in which people should come in and claim asylum in this come —— in this country — and claim asylum in this come —— in this country. the illegal boats coming — this country. the illegal boats coming across as causing and costing this country— coming across as causing and costing this country millions of pounds a day _ this country millions of pounds a day at — this country millions of pounds a day at no — this country millions of pounds a day. at no stage in the house of commons — day. at no stage in the house of commons or on the show or any shock that stephen _ commons or on the show or any shock that stephen appears on has he ever made _ that stephen appears on has he ever made clear— that stephen appears on has he ever made clear what the labour party would _ made clear what the labour party would do — made clear what the labour party would do and the british people would _ would do and the british people would see that. i would do and the british people would see that.— would do and the british people would see that. i have outlined the lan. we would see that. i have outlined the plan- we need _ would see that. i have outlined the plan. we need to _ would see that. i have outlined the plan. we need to fix _ would see that. i have outlined the plan. we need to fix the _ would see that. i have outlined the plan. we need to fix the backlog i would see that. i have outlined the | plan. we need to fix the backlog by upgrading seniority of decision—makers and caseworkers. you have searched the numbers but they are veryjunior. you have got an attrition rate of 46% in the home of his team. no wonder the backlog is going through the roof. it directly impacts on hotels costing the british taxpayers £6 million a day. it is broken. i wonder who broke it. and? brilliant news your family are on the way. and? brilliant news your family are on the way-— and? brilliant news your family are on the wa. ., ,, ., .,~ on the way. thank you for taking the time to listen _ on the way. thank you for taking the time to listen to _ on the way. thank you for taking the time to listen to me. _ on the way. thank you for taking the time to listen to me. i _ on the way. thank you for taking the time to listen to me. i want - on the way. thank you for taking the time to listen to me. i want to i time to listen to me. i want to follow— time to listen to me. i want to follow quickly on that, i'm really sorry, _ follow quickly on that, i'm really sorry, i— follow quickly on that, i'm really sorry, i need to make this point. we have _ sorry, i need to make this point. we have gone _ sorry, i need to make this point. we have gone off topic here. my question— have gone off topic here. my question was well the sudanese people — question was well the sudanese people be supported? obviously, nobody— people be supported? obviously, nobody from ukraine has been centre rwanda _ nobody from ukraine has been centre rwanda because they have not come on a boat _ rwanda because they have not come on a boat are _ rwanda because they have not come on a boat. are you going to be putting the applications as a priority? are you going — the applications as a priority? are you going to house them like you have _ you going to house them like you have housed the ukrainian people here? _ have housed the ukrainian people here? ,, w' have housed the ukrainian people here? ,, ." ., , have housed the ukrainian people here? ,, ., , . �* here? quick answer. we'll get it from paul. _ here? quick answer. we'll get it from paul, and _ here? quick answer. we'll get it from paul, and then _ here? quick answer. we'll get it from paul, and then i _ here? quick answer. we'll get it from paul, and then i want - here? quick answer. we'll get it from paul, and then i want to i here? quick answer. we'll get it. from paul, and then i want to see a clip by suella braverman. answer the question very quickly. it clip by suella braverman. answer the question very quickly.— question very quickly. it will be looked at by — question very quickly. it will be looked at by the _ question very quickly. it will be looked at by the home - question very quickly. it will be looked at by the home office. | question very quickly. it will be l looked at by the home office. it question very quickly. it will be . looked at by the home office. it is a very— looked at by the home office. it is a very difficult situation in sudan. the whole — a very difficult situation in sudan. the whole point of the legislation is to provide safe and legal routes and as_ is to provide safe and legal routes and as we — is to provide safe and legal routes and as we see how the situation in sudan _ and as we see how the situation in sudan plays out there is no doubt in my mind _ sudan plays out there is no doubt in my mind we — sudan plays out there is no doubt in my mind we will be looking at the situation — my mind we will be looking at the situation going ahead. let�*s my mind we will be looking at the situation going ahead.— situation going ahead. let's hear suella braverman, _ situation going ahead. let's hear suella braverman, debating - situation going ahead. let's hear suella braverman, debating the| situation going ahead. let's hear. suella braverman, debating the bill in the commons this afternoon. our politicians have referenced that. including measures allowing the detention of children, to petition of victims of modern slavery if their wrecker by listen to the home secretary talking to bbc breakfast. i disagree with that assertion. our measures in the bill are robust and humanitarian and compassionate. we need to inject an element of deterrent so that people do not make the treacherous journey on a flimsy dinghy in the middle of the night in the first place putting their lives at risk, paying thousands of pounds to people smugglers. we want to stop that practice, deterrent is important. that is why we have made it clear if you arrive illegally you will be detained and removed. coupled with that we are injecting an element of compassion and humanitarian support. that is why we have set out a scheme for safe and legal routes. that is the equivalent of importance to our bill. i refute the suggestion that our measures are unlawful or indeed cruel and inhumane. and, caledonia, how would stop the boats? —— inhumane. and, caledonia, how would stop the boats? --_ stop the boats? -- carla denyer, how would ou stop the boats? -- carla denyer, how would you stop _ stop the boats? -- carla denyer, how would you stop the _ stop the boats? -- carla denyer, how would you stop the boats? _ stop the boats? -- carla denyer, how would you stop the boats? it - stop the boats? -- carla denyer, how would you stop the boats? it must - would you stop the boats? it must have been incredibly _ would you stop the boats? it must have been incredibly stressful - would you stop the boats? it must have been incredibly stressful not | have been incredibly stressful not knowing _ have been incredibly stressful not knowing when your family members were going to come back, and i know he will— were going to come back, and i know he will be _ were going to come back, and i know he will be aware of this, there is a substantial — he will be aware of this, there is a substantial british sudanese community of nearly 20,000 people and that— community of nearly 20,000 people and that will be 20,000 people who are worried sick for their loved ones _ are worried sick for their loved ones and — are worried sick for their loved ones and whether they are going to make _ ones and whether they are going to make it _ ones and whether they are going to make it back. the government action on this— make it back. the government action on this and _ make it back. the government action on this and the communication especially has been woeful. i appreciate there were more british people _ appreciate there were more british people in— appreciate there were more british people in sudan than nationals from other— people in sudan than nationals from other european countries for the most _ other european countries for the most part. — other european countries for the most part, it takes longer to get them _ most part, it takes longer to get them lrack— most part, it takes longer to get them back and i appreciate that. but it does— them back and i appreciate that. but it does not— them back and i appreciate that. but it does not excuse the lack of information being shared. we have heard _ information being shared. we have heard a _ information being shared. we have heard a lot — information being shared. we have heard a lot of interviews on the news _ heard a lot of interviews on the news over— heard a lot of interviews on the news over the last couple of days of british _ news over the last couple of days of british sudanese nationals who had been told _ british sudanese nationals who had been told there was no prospect of being _ been told there was no prospect of being evacuated anytime soon so they had to— being evacuated anytime soon so they had to take _ being evacuated anytime soon so they had to take matters into their own to save _ had to take matters into their own to save themselves, took dangerous journeys _ to save themselves, took dangerous journeys over land taking a long time _ journeys over land taking a long time to— journeys over land taking a long time to find out the british government was starting flights after— government was starting flights after they had made the dangerous journey _ after they had made the dangerous journey. people are being badly let down _ journey. people are being badly let down by _ journey. people are being badly let down by this government even other european _ down by this government even other european governments including france _ european governments including france and germany, german foreign minister— france and germany, german foreign minister who is a green german government minister and has said it was so _ government minister and has said it was so important to us that unlike in other— was so important to us that unlike in other countries, and infatuation not only— in other countries, and infatuation not only applies to our embassy staff— not only applies to our embassy staff but — not only applies to our embassy staff but all local germans and our partners _ staff but all local germans and our partners because the uk government -ot partners because the uk government got its _ partners because the uk government got its deployments out first and worried — got its deployments out first and worried about the citizens later. —— evacuation — worried about the citizens later. —— evacuation i— worried about the citizens later. —— evacuation. i also completely want to say— evacuation. i also completely want to say quickly, i completely agree with the _ to say quickly, i completely agree with the question, what are we doing about— with the question, what are we doing about the _ with the question, what are we doing about the sudanese civilians themselves? the uk has a specific responsibility to british sudanese nationals— responsibility to british sudanese nationals but we cannot neglect the sudanese _ nationals but we cannot neglect the sudanese civilians who are victims in the _ sudanese civilians who are victims in the situation and they need to see a _ in the situation and they need to see a permanent ceasefire and the need _ see a permanent ceasefire and the need aid _ see a permanent ceasefire and the need aid now. see a permanent ceasefire and the need aid now— see a permanent ceasefire and the need aid now. questions, on strikes, joe biden need aid now. questions, on strikes, joe biden is — need aid now. questions, on strikes, joe biden is going — need aid now. questions, on strikes, joe biden is going to _ need aid now. questions, on strikes, joe biden is going to stand _ need aid now. questions, on strikes, joe biden is going to stand again. - joe biden is going to stand again. how old is bob dylan? 88. bowl how old is bob dylan? 33 bowl holmes. how old is bob dylan? 88. bowl holmes- 82- _ how old is bob dylan? 88. bowl holmes. 82. and? _ how old is bob dylan? 88. bowl holmes. 82. and? carla - how old is bob dylan? 88. bowl holmes. 82. and? carla a - how old is bob dylan? 88. bowl holmes. 82. and? carla a few. how old is bob dylan? 88. bowl holmes. 82. and? carla a few i| how old is bob dylan? 88. bowl. holmes. 82. and? carla a fewi am aroin to holmes. 82. and? carla a fewi am going to see _ holmes. 82. and? carla a fewi am going to see i— holmes. 82. and? carla a fewi am going to see i have _ holmes. 82. and? carla a fewi am going to see i have no _ holmes. 82. and? carla a fewi am going to see i have no idea, - holmes. 82. and? carla a fewi am going to see i have no idea, 85. . going to see i have no idea, 85. paul is the winner. how old is mick jagger two if? spot on. how old is jagger two 79. spot on. how old is jack jagger two 79. spot on. how old is jack nicholson? jagger two 79. spot on. how old is jack nicholson? i— jagger two 79. spot on. how old is jack nicholson? i saw— jagger two 79. spot on. how old is jack nicholson? i saw it _ jagger two 79. spot on. how old is jack nicholson? i saw it tiktok - jagger two 79. spot on. how old is| jack nicholson? i saw it tiktok last week. i jack nicholson? i saw it tiktok last week- ithink— jack nicholson? i saw it tiktok last week. i think he _ jack nicholson? i saw it tiktok last week. i think he is _ jack nicholson? i saw it tiktok last week. i think he is 89 _ jack nicholson? i saw it tiktok last week. i think he is 89 or _ jack nicholson? i saw it tiktok last week. i think he is 89 or 90. - jack nicholson? i saw it tiktok last week. i think he is 89 or 90. i - jack nicholson? i saw it tiktok last week. i think he is 89 or 90. i am| week. i think he is 89 or 90. i am aoian week. i think he is 89 or 90. i am aoain to week. i think he is 89 or 90. i am going to say _ week. i think he is 89 or 90. i am going to say 88 — week. i think he is 89 or 90. i am going to say 88 again. _ week. i think he is 89 or 90. i am going to say 88 again. i _ week. i think he is 89 or 90. i am going to say 88 again. i am - week. i think he is 89 or 90. i am going to say 88 again. i am going| week. i think he is 89 or 90. i am i going to say 88 again. i am going to ao with 88 going to say 88 again. i am going to go with 88 as _ going to say 88 again. i am going to go with 88 as well. _ going to say 88 again. i am going to go with 88 as well. no, _ going to say 88 again. i am going to go with 88 as well. no, no, - going to say 88 again. i am going to go with 88 as well. no, no, 86. - going to say 88 again. i am going to | go with 88 as well. no, no, 86. lets ao into go with 88 as well. no, no, 86. lets go into the — go with 88 as well. no, no, 86. lets go into the realm _ go with 88 as well. no, no, 86. lets go into the realm of _ go with 88 as well. no, no, 86. lets go into the realm of politics. - go with 88 as well. no, no, 86. lets go into the realm of politics. john i go into the realm of politics. john major, how old isjohn major? kc. go into the realm of politics. john major, how old is john major? ma'or, how old is john ma'or? 74. go on major, how old is john ma'or? 74. go on then, i major, how old is john ma'or? 74. go on then. r wru— major, how old is john ma'or? 74. go on then, i will sticki major, how old is john ma'or? 74. go on then, i will stick with i major, how old is john major? 74. go on then, i will stick with that. - on then, i will stick with that. i think he is 77. |_ on then, i will stick with that. i think he is 77. i was _ on then, i will stick with that. i think he is 77. i was going i on then, i will stick with that. i think he is 77. i was going to l on then, i will stick with that. i i think he is 77. i was going to say 76, so i think he is 77. i was going to say 76. so i will— think he is 77. i was going to say 76, so i will sort _ think he is 77. i was going to say 76, so i will sort of— think he is 77. i was going to say 76, so i will sort of split - think he is 77. i was going to say 76, so i will sort of split the i 76, so i will sort of split the difference _ 76, so i will sort of split the difference again. _ 76, so i will sort of split the difference again. he- 76, so i will sort of split the difference again.— 76, so i will sort of split the difference again. he is 80 years old. joe biden. _ difference again. he is 80 years old. joe biden, a _ difference again. he is 80 years old. joe biden, a little - difference again. he is 80 years old. joe biden, a little bit i difference again. he is 80 years old. joe biden, a little bit of- difference again. he is 80 years| old. joe biden, a little bit of fun, isjoe biden too old? no no, i think he will stand, he will win, he can beat donald trump, and if you look at things like inflation reduction act, he is a person with radical policies which will help working people in the us and i think he will win. i people in the us and i think he will win. ., ., ~' people in the us and i think he will win. ., ., ~ , ., , win. i do not think we should be aaeist. win. i do not think we should be ageist- anyone _ win. i do not think we should be ageist. anyone should - win. i do not think we should be ageist. anyone should be i win. i do not think we should be ageist. anyone should be able l win. i do not think we should be | ageist. anyone should be able to stand _ ageist. anyone should be able to stand to — ageist. anyone should be able to stand to be president of the united states— stand to be president of the united states in— stand to be president of the united states in their own country and the people _ states in their own country and the people in— states in their own country and the people in america can decide if they want that _ people in america can decide if they want that. joe biden has been a staunch — want that. joe biden has been a staunch ally of this country, that will not — staunch ally of this country, that will not change. if you want to stand. — will not change. if you want to stand. he _ will not change. if you want to stand, he should stand, and the american — stand, he should stand, and the american people will decide. most democrats do _ american people will decide. most democrats do not _ american people will decide. most democrats do not want _ american people will decide. ill-inst democrats do not want him to stand. do you have any concerns about the leader of the free world, he will be 84 and he will be president, there is concern you?— is concern you? let's reflect on what a relief _ is concern you? let's reflect on what a relief his _ is concern you? let's reflect on what a relief his administration | is concern you? let's reflect on i what a relief his administration has been _ what a relief his administration has been after— what a relief his administration has been after the _ what a relief his administration has been after the donald _ what a relief his administration has been after the donald trump - been after the donald trump administration, _ been after the donald trump administration, the - been after the donald trump administration, the contrasti been after the donald trump i administration, the contrast in been after the donald trump - administration, the contrast in what has come _ administration, the contrast in what has come out — administration, the contrast in what has come out of— administration, the contrast in what has come out of the _ administration, the contrast in what has come out of the us— administration, the contrast in whatj has come out of the us government administration, the contrast in what. has come out of the us government in this term _ has come out of the us government in this term versus — has come out of the us government in this term versus the _ has come out of the us government in this term versus the last _ has come out of the us government in this term versus the last one - has come out of the us government in this term versus the last one shows i this term versus the last one shows how not— this term versus the last one shows how not fit— this term versus the last one shows how not fit for— this term versus the last one shows how not fit for the _ this term versus the last one shows how not fit for the job _ this term versus the last one shows how not fit for the job donald - this term versus the last one shows| how not fit for the job donald trump was. how not fit for the job donald trump was i_ how not fit for the job donald trump was~ lagreea — how not fit for the job donald trump was~ lagreea he— how not fit for the job donald trump was. iagree, he has— how not fit for the job donald trump was. i agree, he has done _ how not fit for the job donald trump was. i agree, he has done some i how not fit for the job donald trump. was. i agree, he has done some good things— was. i agree, he has done some good things including — was. i agree, he has done some good things including the _ was. i agree, he has done some good things including the inflation - things including the inflation reduction _ things including the inflation reduction act _ things including the inflation reduction act which - things including the inflation reduction act which will i things including the inflation reduction act which will help| things including the inflation i reduction act which will help with decarbonisation _ reduction act which will help with decarbonisation although - reduction act which will help with decarbonisation although not i reduction act which will help with i decarbonisation although not quite far enough— decarbonisation although not quite far enough in— decarbonisation although not quite far enough in some _ decarbonisation although not quite far enough in some climate - decarbonisation although not quite l far enough in some climate matters. on far enough in some climate matters. 0n age. _ far enough in some climate matters. 0n age. obviously. _ far enough in some climate matters. on age, obviously, there _ far enough in some climate matters. on age, obviously, there is- far enough in some climate matters. on age, obviously, there is nothing. on age, obviously, there is nothing inherently— on age, obviously, there is nothing inherently wrong _ on age, obviously, there is nothing inherently wrong with _ on age, obviously, there is nothing inherently wrong with having - on age, obviously, there is nothing inherently wrong with having olderl inherently wrong with having older people _ inherently wrong with having older people as — inherently wrong with having older people as presidents _ inherently wrong with having older people as presidents and - inherently wrong with having older people as presidents and senior. people as presidents and senior politicians _ people as presidents and senior politicians. has— people as presidents and senior politicians-— politicians. has he still got it? i'm not politicians. has he still got it? i'm rrot the — politicians. has he still got it? i'm not the person _ politicians. has he still got it? i'm not the person to - politicians. has he still got it? i'm not the person to judge i politicians. has he still got it? i i'm not the person to judge that. he i'm not the person tojudge that. he has done _ i'm not the person tojudge that. he has done a — i'm not the person tojudge that. he has done a good _ i'm not the person tojudge that. he has done a good job— i'm not the person tojudge that. he has done a good job of— i'm not the person tojudge that. he has done a good job of coming - i'm not the person tojudge that. hej has done a good job of coming down the us— has done a good job of coming down the us political— has done a good job of coming down the us political situation— has done a good job of coming down the us political situation and - the us political situation and getting — the us political situation and getting things _ the us political situation and getting things done - the us political situation and getting things done in - the us political situation and getting things done in the i the us political situation and. getting things done in the last years — getting things done in the last years on _ getting things done in the last years. on the _ getting things done in the last years. on the age _ getting things done in the last years. on the age thing, i getting things done in the last| years. on the age thing, while getting things done in the last. years. on the age thing, while i getting things done in the last- years. on the age thing, while i do not think— years. on the age thing, while i do not think there _ years. on the age thing, while i do not think there is _ years. on the age thing, while i do not think there is anything - not think there is anything inherently— not think there is anything inherently wrong - not think there is anything inherently wrong with i not think there is anything l inherently wrong with older politicians _ inherently wrong with older politicians generally, - inherently wrong with older politicians generally, the i inherently wrong with older. politicians generally, the trend inherently wrong with older- politicians generally, the trend of us president— politicians generally, the trend of us president getting _ politicians generally, the trend of us president getting older- politicians generally, the trend of us president getting older and i politicians generally, the trend of. us president getting older and older when they— us president getting older and older when they take _ us president getting older and older when they take office, _ us president getting older and older when they take office, it _ us president getting older and older when they take office, it concerns i when they take office, it concerns me slightly — when they take office, it concerns me slightly because _ when they take office, it concerns me slightly because does- when they take office, it concerns me slightly because does it - when they take office, it concerns me slightly because does it meanj me slightly because does it mean there _ me slightly because does it mean there is— me slightly because does it mean there is an — me slightly because does it mean there is an expectation _ me slightly because does it mean there is an expectation that - me slightly because does it mean there is an expectation that you i there is an expectation that you have _ there is an expectation that you have to — there is an expectation that you have to have _ there is an expectation that you have to have 50 _ there is an expectation that you have to have 50 years _ there is an expectation that you have to have 50 years of- there is an expectation that you i have to have 50 years of experience in politics _ have to have 50 years of experience in politics in— have to have 50 years of experience in politics in order— have to have 50 years of experience in politics in order to— have to have 50 years of experience in politics in order to know- have to have 50 years of experience in politics in order to know how- have to have 50 years of experience in politics in order to know how to l in politics in order to know how to do things— in politics in order to know how to do things and _ in politics in order to know how to do things and in _ in politics in order to know how to do things and in order— in politics in order to know how to do things and in order to - in politics in order to know how to do things and in order to have i in politics in order to know how to do things and in order to have the trust _ do things and in order to have the trust of— do things and in order to have the trust of the — do things and in order to have the trust of the electorate? _ do things and in order to have the trust of the electorate? if- do things and in order to have the trust of the electorate? if that i do things and in order to have the trust of the electorate? if that is. trust of the electorate? if that is why this — trust of the electorate? if that is why this is — trust of the electorate? if that is why this is happening, _ trust of the electorate? if that is why this is happening, then- trust of the electorate? if that is why this is happening, then that| trust of the electorate? if that is l why this is happening, then that is concerning — why this is happening, then that is concerning because _ why this is happening, then that is concerning because it— why this is happening, then that is concerning because it means - why this is happening, then that is concerning because it means you i why this is happening, then that is i concerning because it means you are only going _ concerning because it means you are only going to — concerning because it means you are only going to get _ concerning because it means you are only going to get people _ concerning because it means you are only going to get people in _ concerning because it means you are only going to get people in highest i only going to get people in highest office _ only going to get people in highest office with — only going to get people in highest office with a — only going to get people in highest office with a certain _ only going to get people in highest office with a certain perspective. i office with a certain perspective. while _ office with a certain perspective. while i_ office with a certain perspective. while i do — office with a certain perspective. while i do not _ office with a certain perspective. while i do not think— office with a certain perspective. while i do not think there - office with a certain perspective. while i do not think there is i office with a certain perspective. while i do not think there is a i while i do not think there is a problem _ while i do not think there is a problem with— while i do not think there is a problem with him _ while i do not think there is a problem with him in- while i do not think there is a| problem with him in particular are with people — problem with him in particular are with people of— problem with him in particular are with people of that _ problem with him in particular are with people of that age _ problem with him in particular are with people of that age in - with people of that age in particular. _ with people of that age in particular, if— with people of that age in particular, if it _ with people of that age in particular, if it is - with people of that age in particular, if it is a - with people of that age in particular, if it is a sign i with people of that age in| particular, if it is a sign of with people of that age in i particular, if it is a sign of a wider— particular, if it is a sign of a wider trend, _ particular, if it is a sign of a wider trend, then _ particular, if it is a sign of a wider trend, then maybe i particular, if it is a sign of a wider trend, then maybe it| particular, if it is a sign of a i wider trend, then maybe it is a touch— wider trend, then maybe it is a touch concerning. _ wider trend, then maybe it is a touch concerning.— wider trend, then maybe it is a touch concerning. wider trend, then maybe it is a touch concernina. , ~ ., ~ ., touch concerning. here is anna. anna is from brighton. _ touch concerning. here is anna. anna is from brighton. i— touch concerning. here is anna. anna is from brighton. i look— touch concerning. here is anna. anna is from brighton. i look forward i touch concerning. here is anna. anna is from brighton. i look forward to i is from brighton. i look forward to hearing your question which is no two , , _ ., , hearing your question which is no two , , , ., ' ., hearing your question which is no two ,, ., ,, two despite the pay offer to nurses, wh do two despite the pay offer to nurses, why do you — two despite the pay offer to nurses, why do you think— two despite the pay offer to nurses, why do you think mr _ two despite the pay offer to nurses, why do you think mr barclay - two despite the pay offer to nurses, why do you think mr barclay needs i why do you think mr barclay needs the aggressive legal action rather than negotiating because it is projecting from the major paul holmes, can you thank you for your question, like all mps — thank you for your question, like all mps and everyone in the country, we recognise the work that nurses do and we _ we recognise the work that nurses do and we are _ we recognise the work that nurses do and we are deeply thankful for the work all— and we are deeply thankful for the work all nhs staff too. it is fair to say— work all nhs staff too. it is fair to say we — work all nhs staff too. it is fair to say we are going through an economic— to say we are going through an economic crisis at the moment and that we _ economic crisis at the moment and that we put— economic crisis at the moment and that we put a pay offer on the table and the _ that we put a pay offer on the table and the government has negotiated at 5%, and the government has negotiated at 5%. and _ and the government has negotiated at 5%, and that would mean that a band five nurse _ 5%, and that would mean that a band five nurse would get £5,000 extra in wages _ five nurse would get £5,000 extra in wages as— five nurse would get £5,000 extra in wages as well as over £2000 in bonus — wages as well as over £2000 in bonus you _ wages as well as over £2000 in bonus. you will come back to me and say it— bonus. you will come back to me and say it is— bonus. you will come back to me and say it is not— bonus. you will come back to me and say it is not enough because of what people _ say it is not enough because of what people are _ say it is not enough because of what people are going through. i would say that— people are going through. i would say that in— people are going through. i would say that in the private sector at the moment, we are seeing on average increases _ the moment, we are seeing on average increases of _ the moment, we are seeing on average increases of 5%. we also have to recognise — increases of 5%. we also have to recognise that large scale public sector— recognise that large scale public sector offers often mean inflation increases — sector offers often mean inflation increases rather than decreases. so we have _ increases rather than decreases. so we have to — increases rather than decreases. so we have to accept that we have to be responsible _ we have to accept that we have to be responsible with the pay offers that we give, _ responsible with the pay offers that we give, and that is why i think that— we give, and that is why i think that the — we give, and that is why i think that the secretary of state has been very clear _ that the secretary of state has been very clear in negotiating. on the legal— very clear in negotiating. on the legal action you have outlined, it is a technical point but the reason the legal— is a technical point but the reason the legal action is going ahead is because — the legal action is going ahead is because the strikes were announced and it— because the strikes were announced and it is— because the strikes were announced and it is falling outside of the legal— and it is falling outside of the legal timeframe to which those strikes — legal timeframe to which those strikes should be going ahead. nobody— strikes should be going ahead. nobody in my party or any party thinks _ nobody in my party or any party thinks that strikes should not happen, _ thinks that strikes should not happen, everyone should have the i’i l ht happen, everyone should have the right to _ happen, everyone should have the right to strike, we are putting the legal— right to strike, we are putting the legal action forward so that the strike _ legal action forward so that the strike that has been an outline happens — strike that has been an outline happens within legal timeframe. | happens within legal timeframe. i have happens within legal timeframe. have got happens within legal timeframe. i have got one point to make. you mention a band five nurse, a band five nurse when they finish their three years of study and they have got their degree and built up all of that student debt, they get paid £11.29 an hour. with your 5% offer, it would go up to 11.70 an hour. that is 42p more. it is really not sustainable. i speak for myself and many of my colleagues when i see as nurses we are feeling more undervalued at a time are highly skilled roles are becoming increasingly complex and challenging. you have been discussing about food inflation at its fastest rate it has gone up in 45 years and nurses have to choose between leaving after years of dedicated practice or taking strike action. the reality is that the decade following 2010, the nurse wage decreased by 10% in real terms and in some cases up to 30% whereas in the same period the salaries of mps increased by 30% in real terms. the nhs is underfunded, under resourced, it is not sustainable to continue the way it is and i find that mind blowing how far removed from reality that the currently is. stephen moss come in on this but all i stephen moss come in on this but all i would _ stephen moss come in on this but all l would say— stephen moss come in on this but all i would say to anna is that the hard work— i would say to anna is that the hard work you _ i would say to anna is that the hard work you have gone through, i know this, i_ work you have gone through, i know this, i have — work you have gone through, i know this, i have got family in the nhs, i this, i have got family in the nhs, t know— this, i have got family in the nhs, i know exactly what the workload is ~~ _ i know exactly what the workload is... ~ , ., ,., i know exactly what the workload ifi if i didn't mind sister would shout at me _ if i didn't mind sister would shout at me i_ if i didn't mind sister would shout at me. i would point out that union leaders _ at me. i would point out that union leaders recommended this pay deal and two _ leaders recommended this pay deal and two unions accepted that. i know people _ and two unions accepted that. i know people want to be paid more about the government has to act responsibly with the pay offers that we put _ responsibly with the pay offers that we put forward to our nurses and our public— we put forward to our nurses and our public sector— we put forward to our nurses and our public sector otherwise it will have an adverse — public sector otherwise it will have an adverse economic reaction and i think— an adverse economic reaction and i think the _ an adverse economic reaction and i think the secretary of state has been _ think the secretary of state has been very— think the secretary of state has been very clear he wants to offer the 5%~ — been very clear he wants to offer the 5%. unions accepted that, one union— the 5%. unions accepted that, one union has— the 5%. unions accepted that, one union has not. we now need to come back around — union has not. we now need to come back around the table to make sure that we _ back around the table to make sure that we get— back around the table to make sure that we get a deal through. you have to act responsibly _ that we get a deal through. you have to act responsibly because _ that we get a deal through. you have to act responsibly because you i that we get a deal through. you have to act responsibly because you at i to act responsibly because you at the moment you're spending over £3 billion on agency and locum staff will stop you are not retaining the qualified nurses and doctors who can keep amazing care, the continuation of care going. everyone is leaving. the patients are suffering. there is so much you can do to resolve this. all the european countries, nurses are paid 20% higher than the national average and that shows to me that these countries are respecting and valuing the nurses. they are not coming over here any more because there is no incentive. we are not about that 20% national average and we cannot manage. we are all having to leave our look to other professions and it is a sad point in time. i other professions and it is a sad point in time-— other professions and it is a sad point in time. i will bring rachel in as well in _ point in time. i will bring rachel in as well in medway _ point in time. i will bring rachel in as well in medway who i point in time. i will bring rachel in as well in medway who has i point in time. i will bring rachell in as well in medway who has got point in time. i will bring rachel- in as well in medway who has got in touch about the teachers. thank you very much. stephen will pick up your point. and then carla will also respond. about the teachers strike, rachel, far away, it is 1055. saint mark i have two children at secondary school, my biggest issue as i lucky i work from home, i am at home. , ., ., ~ ., ., , home. they do not know who is trackina , home. they do not know who is tracking. so _ home. they do not know who is tracking, so on _ home. they do not know who is tracking, so on a _ home. they do not know who is tracking, so on a strike - home. they do not know who is tracking, so on a strike day, i home. they do not know who is. tracking, so on a strike day, they will not _ tracking, so on a strike day, they will not know— tracking, so on a strike day, they will not know until _ tracking, so on a strike day, they will not know until nine - tracking, so on a strike day, they will not know until nine o'clock. tracking, so on a strike day, they will not know until nine o'clock if| will not know until nine o'clock if they— will not know until nine o'clock if they have — will not know until nine o'clock if they have got _ will not know until nine o'clock if they have got any _ will not know until nine o'clock if they have got any work - will not know until nine o'clock if they have got any work or- will not know until nine o'clock if they have got any work or not. i will not know until nine o'clock if. they have got any work or not. my year ten _ they have got any work or not. my year ten boy— they have got any work or not. my yearten boy on— they have got any work or not. my year ten boy on one _ they have got any work or not. my year ten boy on one of— they have got any work or not. my year ten boy on one of the - they have got any work or not. my year ten boy on one of the strike i year ten boy on one of the strike days, _ year ten boy on one of the strike days, he — year ten boy on one of the strike days, he has— year ten boy on one of the strike days, he has missed _ year ten boy on one of the strike days, he has missed out - year ten boy on one of the strike days, he has missed out on - year ten boy on one of the strike days, he has missed out on so . days, he has missed out on so much during _ days, he has missed out on so much during lockdown. _ days, he has missed out on so much during lockdown. he _ days, he has missed out on so much during lockdown. he has _ days, he has missed out on so much during lockdown. he has really- days, he has missed out on so much during lockdown. he has really beeni during lockdown. he has really been impacted _ during lockdown. he has really been impacted and — during lockdown. he has really been impacted. and tomorrow _ during lockdown. he has really been impacted. and tomorrow we - during lockdown. he has really been impacted. and tomorrow we have i during lockdown. he has really been| impacted. and tomorrow we have no clue what _ impacted. and tomorrow we have no clue what work — impacted. and tomorrow we have no clue what work he _ impacted. and tomorrow we have no clue what work he is _ impacted. and tomorrow we have no clue what work he is going _ impacted. and tomorrow we have no clue what work he is going to - impacted. and tomorrow we have no clue what work he is going to get. i clue what work he is going to get. he is_ clue what work he is going to get. he is going — clue what work he is going to get. he is going to— clue what work he is going to get. he is going to have _ clue what work he is going to get. he is going to have to— clue what work he is going to get. he is going to have to find - clue what work he is going to get. he is going to have to find thingsi he is going to have to find things to fill_ he is going to have to find things to fill his — he is going to have to find things to fill his day _ he is going to have to find things to fill his day to _ he is going to have to find things to fill his day to make _ he is going to have to find things to fill his day to make sure - he is going to have to find things to fill his day to make sure he . to fill his day to make sure he keeps — to fill his day to make sure he keeps updated~ _ to fill his day to make sure he keeps updated. what - to fill his day to make sure he keeps updated. what are - to fill his day to make sure he keeps updated. what are you | to fill his day to make sure he - keeps updated. what are you going to do about_ keeps updated. what are you going to do about it? _ keeps updated. what are you going to do about it? this _ keeps updated. what are you going to do about it? this cannot _ keeps updated. what are you going to do about it? this cannot carry- keeps updated. what are you going to do about it? this cannot carry on, - do about it? this cannot carry on, it is hot— do about it? this cannot carry on, it is not acceptable. _ do about it? this cannot carry on, it is not acceptable.— do about it? this cannot carry on, it is not acceptable. take out both of those points, _ it is not acceptable. take out both of those points, stephen. - it is not acceptable. take out both of those points, stephen. you - it is not acceptable. take out both l of those points, stephen. you make it is not acceptable. take out both - of those points, stephen. you make a owerful of those points, stephen. you make a powerful case. _ of those points, stephen. you make a powerful case, and _ of those points, stephen. you make a powerful case, and on, _ of those points, stephen. you make a powerful case, and on, i— of those points, stephen. you make a powerful case, and on, i agree - of those points, stephen. you make a powerful case, and on, i agree with i powerful case, and on, i agree with every word of what you have said because this is not only about pay, it is about the future of our nhs. i can hear in your voice the passion that you have for our nhs, the commitment you have to act, but you are right, people are leaving, they are right, people are leaving, they are going to and other countries. well over 100,000 vacancies in our health service. people are really struggling to make ends meet. all paid negotiations as a matter of negotiation and compromise but what is not acceptable is that we have seen the health secretary doing more posturing than getting round the table and having the negotiations. it is the result of 13 years of the tories running down our public services, failing to invest and failing to treat trade unions like grown—ups and having proper collective bargaining and a proper grown—up relationship which would not have allowed us to get to this point in the first place. to racher point in the first place. to rachel's point on teachers, our teachers do such a fantasticjob. i think they have been under massive pressure. i think there comes a point where working people say enough is enough. i have seen a massive real cut, real terms cut in my wages over recent years, inflation is turbo—charging the impact of all of that and i have to stand up for myself and my rights and i have got to say to the government we need fairness and all of theirs. again, it is about negotiation and compromise and unfortunately, this government is more interested in posturing than getting round the table.— more interested in posturing than getting round the table. thank you so much, getting round the table. thank you so much. anna _ getting round the table. thank you so much, anna and _ getting round the table. thank you so much, anna and rachel, - getting round the table. thank you so much, anna and rachel, you i getting round the table. thank you | so much, anna and rachel, you are welcome anytime, we only three minutes left. a quick word on this, i want to ask you something else. strikes. i i want to ask you something else. strikes. . . i want to ask you something else. strikes. . , .. strikes. i will answer rachel . uickl strikes. i will answer rachel quickly first- _ strikes. i will answer rachel quickly first. it _ strikes. i will answer rachel quickly first. it is _ strikes. i will answer rachel quickly first. it is really - strikes. i will answer rachel| quickly first. it is really quite difficult _ quickly first. it is really quite difficult situation _ quickly first. it is really quite difficult situation and - quickly first. it is really quite difficult situation and having| difficult situation and having spoken— difficult situation and having spoken to _ difficult situation and having spoken to teachers - difficult situation and having spoken to teachers in - difficult situation and having| spoken to teachers in bristol difficult situation and having - spoken to teachers in bristol where i am spoken to teachers in bristol where lam a _ spoken to teachers in bristol where lam a city— spoken to teachers in bristol where i am a city councillor— spoken to teachers in bristol where i am a city councillor and _ i am a city councillor and parliamentary _ i am a city councillor and| parliamentary candidate, i am a city councillor and i parliamentary candidate, i i am a city councillor and - parliamentary candidate, i met a i am a city councillor and _ parliamentary candidate, i met a lot of teachers — parliamentary candidate, i met a lot of teachers who _ parliamentary candidate, i met a lot of teachers who were _ parliamentary candidate, i met a lot of teachers who were on _ parliamentary candidate, i met a lot of teachers who were on strike - parliamentary candidate, i met a lot of teachers who were on strike and. of teachers who were on strike and they are _ of teachers who were on strike and they are very— of teachers who were on strike and they are very reluctant. _ of teachers who were on strike and they are very reluctant. they - of teachers who were on strike and they are very reluctant. they do i of teachers who were on strike and| they are very reluctant. they do not want _ they are very reluctant. they do not want to _ they are very reluctant. they do not want to do— they are very reluctant. they do not want to do this _ they are very reluctant. they do not want to do this by _ they are very reluctant. they do not want to do this by the _ they are very reluctant. they do not want to do this by the government i want to do this by the government has left _ want to do this by the government has left them _ want to do this by the government has left them with _ want to do this by the government has left them with no _ want to do this by the government has left them with no choice - want to do this by the government. has left them with no choice because the ore-rice — has left them with no choice because the pre—rice offered _ has left them with no choice because the pre—rice offered is— has left them with no choice because the pre—rice offered is a _ has left them with no choice because the pre—rice offered is a real- has left them with no choice because the pre—rice offered is a real terms l the pre—rice offered is a real terms pay out _ the pre—rice offered is a real terms pay cut. worse _ the pre—rice offered is a real terms pay cut. worse still, _ the pre—rice offered is a real terms pay cut. worse still, it— the pre—rice offered is a real terms pay cut. worse still, it is— the pre—rice offered is a real terms pay cut. worse still, it is not- the pre—rice offered is a real terms pay cut. worse still, it is not evenl pay cut. worse still, it is not even fuhded _ pay cut. worse still, it is not even fuhded which _ pay cut. worse still, it is not even funded which means _ pay cut. worse still, it is not even funded which means the - pay cut. worse still, it is not even funded which means the head - pay cut. worse still, it is not even- funded which means the head teachers are irr— funded which means the head teachers are in an _ funded which means the head teachers are in an impossible _ funded which means the head teachers are in an impossible situation - funded which means the head teachers are in an impossible situation where i are in an impossible situation where they need _ are in an impossible situation where they need to — are in an impossible situation where they need to get _ are in an impossible situation where they need to get their— are in an impossible situation where they need to get their staff - are in an impossible situation where they need to get their staff a - are in an impossible situation where they need to get their staff a pay . they need to get their staff a pay rise, _ they need to get their staff a pay rise. trut— they need to get their staff a pay rise. but they— they need to get their staff a pay rise, but they are _ they need to get their staff a pay rise, but they are not _ they need to get their staff a pay rise, but they are not given - rise, but they are not given the funding — rise, but they are not given the funding to _ rise, but they are not given the funding to do _ rise, but they are not given the funding to do so. _ rise, but they are not given the funding to do so. they- rise, but they are not given the funding to do so. they have - rise, but they are not given the funding to do so. they have to| rise, but they are not given the i funding to do so. they have to cut teaching _ funding to do so. they have to cut teaching assistants, _ funding to do so. they have to cut teaching assistants, they - funding to do so. they have to cut teaching assistants, they have - funding to do so. they have to cut teaching assistants, they have to| teaching assistants, they have to cut support — teaching assistants, they have to cut support for _ teaching assistants, they have to cut support for children - teaching assistants, they have to cut support for children with - cut support for children with special— cut support for children with special educational - cut support for children with special educational needs i cut support for children with i special educational needs and cut support for children with - special educational needs and the teachers — special educational needs and the teachers are — special educational needs and the teachers are on _ special educational needs and the teachers are on low— special educational needs and the teachers are on low incomes - special educational needs and the teachers are on low incomes are i teachers are on low incomes are struggling — teachers are on low incomes are struggling irr— teachers are on low incomes are struggling in the _ teachers are on low incomes are struggling in the cost _ teachers are on low incomes are struggling in the cost of- teachers are on low incomes are struggling in the cost of living i struggling in the cost of living crisis~ — struggling in the cost of living crisis. ,, w' , struggling in the cost of living crisis. ,, ., , , | crisis. quickly on the nurses. i auree crisis. quickly on the nurses. i agree with _ crisis. quickly on the nurses. i agree with everything - crisis. quickly on the nurses. i agree with everything you - crisis. quickly on the nurses. i| agree with everything you said, ahha. _ agree with everything you said, ahha. why— agree with everything you said, ahha. why are _ agree with everything you said, anna, why are stephen - agree with everything you said, anna, why are stephen barclay| agree with everything you said, - anna, why are stephen barclay taking the royat— anna, why are stephen barclay taking the royal college _ anna, why are stephen barclay taking the royal college of— anna, why are stephen barclay taking the royal college of nurses _ anna, why are stephen barclay taking the royal college of nurses to - anna, why are stephen barclay taking the royal college of nurses to court l the royal college of nurses to court rather _ the royal college of nurses to court rather than — the royal college of nurses to court rather than getting _ the royal college of nurses to court rather than getting round _ the royal college of nurses to court rather than getting round the - the royal college of nurses to court rather than getting round the tablei rather than getting round the table to discuss— rather than getting round the table to discuss and _ rather than getting round the table to discuss and negotiate. - rather than getting round the table to discuss and negotiate. these i rather than getting round the table| to discuss and negotiate. these are desperate _ to discuss and negotiate. these are desperate measures, _ to discuss and negotiate. these are desperate measures, it _ to discuss and negotiate. these are desperate measures, it is - to discuss and negotiate. these are desperate measures, it is a - to discuss and negotiate. these are desperate measures, it is a waste i to discuss and negotiate. these are| desperate measures, it is a waste of time and _ desperate measures, it is a waste of time and money— desperate measures, it is a waste of time and money and _ desperate measures, it is a waste of time and money and it— desperate measures, it is a waste of time and money and it is— desperate measures, it is a waste of time and money and it is petty. - time and money and it is petty. since _ time and money and it is petty. since you — time and money and it is petty. since you are _ time and money and it is petty. since you are here, _ time and money and it is petty. since you are here, let's - time and money and it is petty. since you are here, let's talk i time and money and it is petty. - since you are here, let's talk about the planet. did you support the protesters at the crucible who got on the table with the orange powder a few i on the table with the orange powder a fe , , ,., ., a few i support the right to protest. — a few i support the right to protest. it _ a few i support the right to protest, it is _ a few i support the right to protest, it is essential- a few i support the right to protest, it is essential in l a few i support the right to i protest, it is essential in any democracy, _ protest, it is essential in any democracy, and _ protest, it is essential in any democracy, and you - protest, it is essential in any democracy, and you only- protest, it is essential in any. democracy, and you only need protest, it is essential in any- democracy, and you only need to look at couhtries _ democracy, and you only need to look at countries that _ democracy, and you only need to look at countries that restrict _ democracy, and you only need to look at countries that restrict protest - at countries that restrict protest to see _ at countries that restrict protest to see the — at countries that restrict protest to see the chilling _ at countries that restrict protest to see the chilling effect - at countries that restrict protest to see the chilling effect that. at countries that restrict protestl to see the chilling effect that has on human— to see the chilling effect that has on human rights. _ to see the chilling effect that has on human rights. that— to see the chilling effect that has on human rights. that does- to see the chilling effect that has on human rights. that does not. to see the chilling effect that has - on human rights. that does not mean that i_ on human rights. that does not mean that i necessarily— on human rights. that does not mean that i necessarily support _ on human rights. that does not mean that i necessarily support every- that i necessarily support every single — that i necessarily support every single tactic _ that i necessarily support every single tactic. to _ that i necessarily support every single tactic. to be _ that i necessarily support every single tactic. to be honest, - that i necessarily support every single tactic. to be honest, it l that i necessarily support every| single tactic. to be honest, it is not my— single tactic. to be honest, it is hot myjob _ single tactic. to be honest, it is hot myjob as— single tactic. to be honest, it is not myjob as co—leader- single tactic. to be honest, it is not myjob as co—leader of - single tactic. to be honest, it is not myjob as co—leader of the i single tactic. to be honest, it is - not myjob as co—leader of the green party— not myjob as co—leader of the green party to— not myjob as co—leader of the green party to arbitrate _ not myjob as co—leader of the green party to arbitrate on _ not myjob as co—leader of the green party to arbitrate on protest - party to arbitrate on protest tactics~ _ party to arbitrate on protest tactics~ my— party to arbitrate on protest tactics. my priority - party to arbitrate on protest tactics. my priority is - party to arbitrate on protest tactics. my priority is to - party to arbitrate on protest - tactics. my priority is to achieve change — tactics. my priority is to achieve change and _ tactics. my priority is to achieve change and to _ tactics. my priority is to achieve change and to get _ tactics. my priority is to achieve change and to get those - tactics. my priority is to achieve | change and to get those brilliant poticies — change and to get those brilliant policies that _ change and to get those brilliant policies that will— change and to get those brilliant policies that will tackle - change and to get those brilliant policies that will tackle climate i policies that will tackle climate change — policies that will tackle climate change and _ policies that will tackle climate change and the _ policies that will tackle climate change and the cost _ policies that will tackle climate change and the cost of - policies that will tackle climate change and the cost of living. policies that will tackle climate i change and the cost of living crisis adopted _ change and the cost of living crisis adopted through _ change and the cost of living crisis adopted through the _ change and the cost of living crisis adopted through the political - change and the cost of living crisis i adopted through the political system by getting _ adopted through the political system by getting myself— adopted through the political system by getting myself elected _ adopted through the political system by getting myself elected into - adopted through the political system by getting myself elected into the i by getting myself elected into the houses _ by getting myself elected into the houses of— by getting myself elected into the houses of parliament _ by getting myself elected into the houses of parliament and - by getting myself elected into the houses of parliament and gettingi houses of parliament and getting hundreds— houses of parliament and getting hundreds of— houses of parliament and getting hundreds of green _ houses of parliament and getting hundreds of green councillors - houses of parliament and getting| hundreds of green councillors are elected _ hundreds of green councillors are elected throughout— hundreds of green councillors are elected throughout the _ hundreds of green councillors are elected throughout the country. i elected throughout the country. thank— elected throughout the country. thank you — elected throughout the country. thank you very _ elected throughout the country. thank you very much. _ elected throughout the country. thank you very much. paul - elected throughout the country. - thank you very much. paul holmes, stephen kinnock and carla denyer. thank you for all the telephone calls. we will hear you again hopefully. ifjoe biden is re—elected and does a full term, he will be 86 by the end of that. live from london. this is bbc news. a ship carrying hundreds of saudi nationals, escaping the conflict in sudan, arrives back atjeddah docks. i'm lewis vaughanjones at larnaca airport in cyprus, where the latest group of british evacuees have arrived on their way back to the uk. the 72 hour ceasefire appears to be holding as the repatriation of thousands of foreign citizens from sudanese cities continues. and the jailed russian opposition leader, alexei navalny, tells a court in moscow he's now being investigated on terrorism charges.