Transcripts For SFGTV BOS Govt Audits And Oversight Committee 20240712

Inclusion. It supports them and growth and mobility. Another area to think about is around testing. Each one of the presentations we saw major drop offs in regards to race and gender around testing. That is an area of concern we want more conversation about and think about strategies. We wanted to better understand budget line items in regards to equity. It is one thing to talk about equity. It is that we want to Work Together to put our money where our heart and mouth is. I want to understand how it is centered in the budget given the hearings next month and then lastly what kind of relationships are we fostering with communitybased organizations . They can help with hiring and recruitment needs. Those are the four or five areas from the office of Racial Equity that we are wanting to be a resource, partner and collobborrator on, to have more robust conversations about this hearing. I think all of our leaders have been very open and very clear eyed. They have been at the heart of a lot of difficult conversations. I know doctor davis with the Human Rights Division met with chief scott and chief nicholson and the sheriff to get this work done through opportunities for all. Those are my comments for now. Those are the areas we are looking at. I look forward to hearing more from our presenters. Thank you. Thank you, director finley. That helps define the conversation, some of the things we had talked about we will come back to that. Those are good things and highlight the information that has come out today. Are there moving with Racial Equity action plans . They talked about testing. What control and influence they have over the Testing Process. That is regarding the overall budget for recruitment and diversity and is there a plan . Those are all helpful. We appreciate that and we will come back dow. Come come back to you. I want to give you the opportunity, president beufort to present abgive us your thoughts. Thank you for joining us today. Is the director sims on the call as well . I am here. Is that okay with you that we let director simms to go ahead and jump in. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you for having me. Thank you, chairman mar, we worked together before and special thanks to all supervisors, especially supervisor safai and walton who i have worked with several times to get more of a streamlined recruitment position and process. I know that local hire is no longer an option, but having people come from the bay area is near and dear to me as i am a San Francisco native and grew up in the lake view district. I am adrianne simms, one of approximately 20 women in the San Francisco Fire Department. A department of 1700 people. That is a very small number from the number when i came into this department. I was recruited by one of my mothers friends, one of the first women in the department. I was floating along not understanding where i needed to go in life and she pulled me in and said this will be good for you. I am a very strong girl. I didnt have a lot of direction. Without recruitment i would not be here today. I had no previous knowledge what to expect in this job and how to ham myself. I was part of the Cadet Program which prepped me for what would be in the academy. I met friends i have until today. Teamwork is essential to the success in the Fire Department. We were given the opportunity to practice with the ladders on 19th and folsom before the test. I most defly would have failed the fiscal test. Not because i am not strong but i had never used my body in that way before. It required guidance for me to succeed. The Cadet Program is why i am here. Have been given an opportunity to serve and pr protect my community. It has given me the opportunity to fight, educate and inform for not only my brothers and sisters that i can do this job as an africanamerican woman with no College Education. I was not given support or Financial Assistance by my parents. It gives me an opportunity to reach the communities i serve. That is to show them and young black and brown women and anybody that this is a path where these badges don arent a symbol of oppression. They can be a symbol of opportunity. To give you background on me. When i first got here i was a single mother, struggling, homeless. I am now a homeowner with three children that respect what i do for a living. I would not be able to do any of that without this job and this opportunity. This is very passionate to me. I could have been lost had i mott been recruit the and brought to the department. This is not a pathway for young women. We are not strong but this is something we can do and we can do this. We bring a different aspect to this job. We bring empathy. This is a masculine job where we bring something softer and peoples most traumatic parts of their lives we bring in something else. I really cannot stress enough how important recruitment is. This is a pathway of an opportunity that we have to figure out away that our kids within our community, whether they have a College Education or not can reach back to the next generation. It is something i am passionate about. I have talked with supervisor walton and supervisor safai about different ways to have a diversity plan to work with the ueg which consists of the afa, black firefighters, womens group and veterans to have them have input and support to the Recruitment Department. We need to have a budget for our Recruitment Department. The way it is working now is not working. The numbers prove that time and time again. We are losing whether it is through promotions or hiring diversity. The numbers are going down. 18 black women in this department. That does mirror the community. As we know San Francisco is one of the most gentrified cities out there. We cannot say it doesnt mirror the community so it is not important. We need to have a Recruitment Department supported by the San Francisco Fire Department and we need to have an actual plan within put and support and mentorship. We are losing a lot of people in the academy because they dont know how to maneuver through it. This is something that is very foreign to people unless this is something that you tried to do your whole life and you are studying it your whole life. I will leave it to shawn. I fully support recruitment. I am amazed to listen to sfpd for eight recruiters and budget. Our department does not have that. Last administration was not a priority because they said they had 7,000 or 8,000 applicants and didnt need to focus on recruitment. It is obvious that we do. Thank you for your time. Thank you. I appreciate your passion. Never apologize for that. President buford, are you able to speak now . Thank you very much. First i would like to thank the chair marand supervisor peskin and haney for calling this hearing. I would like to read a statement i wrote and ask any questions you may have. I would like to thank supervisor walwalton and safai for hearingr concerns and interested stakeholders to participate in this government and Oversight Committee recruitment be and inclusion efforts. This topic came over a conversation with supervisor safai who was doing the check in to see how the members were handling the recent challenges of the global pandemic. The Fire Department members were handling things well considering what was going on. Later that night i realized that members were able to adjust to the National Unrest that followed the murder of george floyd because sffd had been mandated in the late 1980s. This wasnt is First Federal mandated Consent Decree. It was the one the city took seriously and told the Public Safety association to reflect the communities we serve. The city was able to accomplish this through implementation of training members and aggressive recruitment efforts and Diverse Community throughout the city. Efforts have proven successful. The current climate of social tension made me consider what else can and should be done to continue the progress begun over 30 years ago. This is when i requested a meeting to discuss how to better fund and improve th the recruitment. One person whose job was misclassified with no established budget and lack of resources to reach the expanded communities. The concerns are not new. In fact, i have met with leaders of the San Francisco Fire Department you need employees and the ueg who voiced concerns that recruitment efforts are not sufficient. United Fire Service Women have led the conversation o on the National Testing network would have negative impact. The primary concern was the associated with the test but also the makeup of the list has changed specifically since opening testing to a larger demographics. Rescue the lgbt organization, asian firefighters, black firefighters and veteran firefighters have expressed similar opinions. The latest blow with a negative impact on local recruitment was consideration to defund the mt program formed by the Fire Department and city of San Francisco. I bring this up because individually many of these things may not be noticed. Collectively they have a huge impact on our department moving forward. I thank you for this opportunity to bring it in, and San Francisco has become one of the most diverse departments in this nation due to those efforts. The National Association of firefighters have recruited members from San Francisco to be on the human relations committee, director simms to become an instructor to show diverse population within international as well as the secretary and myself to help promote diversity and inclusion within international. I hope that our department can do the same. If commander ford is available i would love to sit down to learn about the efforts, the program seems to work well and i will take any questions if there are any for me. Thank you. You did some real outreach listening to your representative groups. You talk about what you thought your recommendations were but not thought what they were excuse me. United statessed what you thought would be helpful. Can you talk what you think would be helpful in terms of achieving goals that might have been presented . Director simms mentioned listening to the Employee Groups. They have a good understanding. They could bring the ideas to meet more Diverse Community. When i was an attendant at station four the Public Safety building i met many members of sfpd recruitment unit and saw how they were organized. My concern was that they were not at that level. What i would like to see is proper funding to our recruitment and the mayors budget where the recruiter cannot only have assistance but a budget to be classified properly as what was given to his position. Also have a recruitment budget to do like the pd. Go to other organizations, have money to advertise in the newspapers, on social media. We can get to a broader base of individuals as well as with the Unified School District and city college and as did chief mentioned the new ems core program that would make it move forward. Now we see the members trend backwards. I dont want San Francisco not to go backwards to to remain the leader on these efforts. My next question is there is talk about and this is chief nicholsons presentation. I heard talk about in the other presentations. What is your reaction to and can you talk about the testing and what impact that has had on the makeup of the recruitment classes and makeup of body of the firefighters . The city and county of San Francisco went to the National Testing network because it was cheaper. The impact it has to go throughout side vendor which has a fee. There is a provision to waive the fee not easily accessible to recruit. It made it more difficult for our youth locally within the bay area to gain access. It also requires extra time and effort. We have other requirements like you have to pass a physical agility test, tnt license, the effort was more restrictive. In doing so we notice our numbers of those eligible started to shrink and the united fire women mentioned the impact as well as other groups. What i would like to see if we are going to remain in that system, that San Francisco make an effort to provide waivers for our communities of color or low income who are unable to afford it as well as provide real recruitment to be able to reach to them and lead them on the path not only just there but actually to begin to bring it to these communities to bring them to our department. Do we have discretion over that test . Do we have to participate in that National Testing network . Our department of Human Resources is under their department. The police, fire do not necessarily have control over it. We would have to get an agreement for the city to do it themselves. I would be happy to have that conversation. We have the department of Human Resources on the phone. It sounds like that is something we can check on. Please stay on the line. Unless any colleagues have questions for you we will talk a little bit with hr Human Resources and open up for Public Comment. Supervisor peskin and mar. Supervisor haney is with us as well. Any questions for president buford . Thank you, president buford nor your leadership. It is much appreciated. I know that we have worked together a few years back around some of the work at sfusd and city college and this is related but i wonder if you could speak how you see that. It was mentioned but how you see the work with s. F. U. S. D. And chief nicholson as well. What are the things we can do better with our other institutions and new programs and approaches . Is there anything positive out of that . Anything to do to support . Thank you, supervisor haney. You were setting up the meeting. A lot of youth understand there was a path they could consider to move forward so the exposure was important. If we can get youth excited to share their story that would take our work from us. Thank you for your effort goes to bring us together. I know it was to be funded. I am not sure how you were able to stop that but i would love to see it continue to expand it as well. Even like something having paid cadets. We have fiery serve. Having another auxiliary to allow them to work sidebyside for Public Safety would be another way to actually get more youth excited. My mother started off as a meter maid before moving to the Sheriffs Department. It was her exposure that brought it over. Thank you and i would love to sit down with you some more to expand these programs. Supervisor safai a question is related to the question supervisor haney just raised. The role that city college can play in helping to build out and expand a pipeline, diversity pipeline to the Fire Department given the student demographics that reflect the priority africanamerican and people of color and women recruits that we are trying to tap into for the Fire Department. City college has a Degree Program in fire science technology. A number of Certificate Programs including firefighter academy. Can you speak to your thoughts how city college with be leveraged more in the Diversity Efforts of the Fire Department . Chief nicholson, i would love to hear your thoughts as well. Thank you, chair mar. City college is a great resource. It is an automatic pipeline, i would say. Very strong pipeline for us, but what we are seeing with city college is there is a lack of diversity in terms of women in the fire science, africanamericans in the classes as well as africanamericans in the ems classes. We have to go upstream even more. If i can elaborate. They have been great but they are members of the Fire Department but they have gone on their own. There is exposure as chief nicholson mentioned if we could expand that more. That is an Academy Degree you can get or certificate. We need to also expand it to the point where ems is another portion of it and prevention and think of that. There is a small collaboration but room for improvement there as well. I would love to follow up with you on that. Chair mar, ms. Simply has her hand raised. Ms. Simley. I did have a question for chief nicholsons in regards to ems cohort. That is close to your heart to have an opportunity to talk to your staff about this and bringing this to the southeast part of the city. Do you have in this budget support for that cohort . What does that support look like . Thank you for the question. Yes, it is very close to my heart. If i can just explain a little bit about our budget. It is 423 million, 91 is salary and benefits. We have equipment breaking down all of the time, and if we dont have equipment recant respond. Last year i asked for more staffing for the ambulances because we were running at level zero, which means we cant respond to calls because we dont have enough ambulances and personnel on the street. That was turned down. I would love to be able to get some funding for this, but our budget right now is razor thin with the cuts we have been asked to make. I cant afford equipment to get our folks out the door. That is a huge problem. I also know that equity is a huge problem. If the mayors budget office, if the board of supervisors can find funding, please help us get money for it. It is extremely important. We are going to come back to more questions on budget after Public Comment. I appreciate that, director finley. Part of the reason we had this hearing is because we know that departments are given a lump sum, there is a certain amount dedicated to fulltime benefits and staffing and the capital requirements. There is always going to be tradeoffs. That is why we wanted the conversation now. That is part of the reason why the mayor asked for audit within sfpd hiring processes and we wanted to expand be that conversation. This is not to point fingers. It is to have a real open and honest conversation now. We thought it would be a good exercise to do compare and contrast to what each department is doing to better understand the resources and dedication each department has, but we are at a time where we are going to have to find a way. We have to find a way in this budget conversation to make a dedicated commitment to these principles today. We will come back to that. If it is okay with the chair, i would like to stay on the topic of the testing. If the person speaking on behalf of the Human Resources department is on the phone or if it is anna, we need to hear from the department of Human Resources because in both sfpds presentation and sf Fire Department, there was conversations about testing. I would like to hear you say a few words to understand better particularly with the Fire Department with the National Testing network is a requirement, does the city have to use that process . Why did we move to process of testing that required a fee for applicants. Does the Human Resources division consider these factors as barriers to people in Diverse Communities when they are factoring in the process of testing . Obviously from what we have heard today having a Fee Associated with the test and not as acceptable has been a barrier for the Fire Department. It sounds like the Police Department works on waving the fees and bringing the access to the applicants. We would like to hear your thoughts on that before we open up to Public Comment. I do have our director of Employment Services and dave johnson, manager of Public Safety team, with me. Identify yourself. Chief of policy. We move to the National Testing network in 2012, and a few numbers we have seen since then 8321 people have passed the test. But we see disparities in those outcomes. 479 of those that passed were women. 20 were africanamerican. [indiscernable] we have put a pause on the testing so we can do an evaluation to make sure that we are recruiting the right candidates to serve in these critical roles. We hope to complete that audit in a few months. I will maybe from here pass it to dave johnson, the Testing Process and a little bit more information. This is dave johnson. Can you hear me . Yes. I just want to say chief nicholson is exactly correct. We do differentiate among protected groups in not necessarily good ways. The challenge in testing the three years is to find the instrument that minimizes your differences. We believe that nts is a leader in the industry in doing this. Testing cannot account for what is outside our control. Environment and education. We have to deal with what is in if applicant pool. We cant erase that. My job is to find the instrument to minimize those differences. We believe we have found that in the National Testing network. We well come any instruments to further minimize the differences. 8,000 people passed the test that is since 2015. In 2012 for the Fire Department we used the test from ergometrics and the National Testing network. [please stand by] we use the same standards that are used for qualifying for assistance at the community colleges. Our city college they dont charge. Thats not part of the current calculation. I want to talk about the origin of the candidates. It showed 48 between 2015 and 2017, 48 of the people on eligible list were from greater bay area, nine bay area counties. 49 were from california outside of the nine bay area counties. 23 were from out of state. We wont see great impact opening up National Testing. By requiring that, it tends to limit the applicant pool to california. I know that back when i cutler bayered started with the Fire Department, it was part of the academy as a money saving, they removed from the academy and required to get on the eligible list. We recognize that the e. M. T. Pool not diverse. Moving those 12 weeks of training out of the academy and putting it ueder preris prerequt minimize the diversity of the incoming pool. My question, is it required to use this Testing Service . Could you make that change if it was deemed necessary . Most definitely. The testing for police, fire and sheriff entry is choice of the city. What are the standards by which you choose the Testing Process . We would have to find something that shows impact than what were using now. Less adverse impact. Can you define adverse impact . Who defines that . Its differences. Okay, how many particular group of whats the pass rate for groups within the applicant po pool. If theres difference among them, if we can find an instrument that minimizes those differences and shows less differences than now, then we would doubt that instrument. Have you looked at the demographics require to prior to changing your Testing Process of the hired pool . Not the recruited pool but the actual hired pool within the department . No, i cant say weve looked at that. All three department have the list. As we pointed out previously, for example, Fire Departments could have hired 420 black firefighters since 2015. There were 420 in the pool. During that time period, they hired 487. They could have hired 420. The diversity was there. That wasnt really my question. My question was looking at the hiring rate prior to hiring rate after and was there fee to take the test prior . There was not. That right there already, even if you have a waiver system, its amazing to me that only 47 people have applied. That says to me probably people dont know that theres a process by which to pla apply fa waiver or its cumbersome or at least in their mind it might be. Do any of my colleague have questions regarding the Testing Process . We can come back to that mr. Johnson. Thank you for that. That will be something that we would like to see. Actually, director finley, yes. Do you want to ask any questions about the Testing Process . I have a question about the Testing Process. What kind of strategies or work has our Law Enforcement agencies have with the Civil Service commission. What kind of recommendations have they put forth . Thats directed to you mr. Johnson. Could you repeat the question please . My question was, directed toward Law Enforcement sorry. What kind of strategies and recommendations have you put forth in your tenure in regards to testing or hiring Recruitment Strategies in your agency . Maybe we can start with chief nicholson and then chief scott and then the sheriff. Thank you. I have been in office for just over a year now. Internally what we started speaking about was certainly how were hiring, Succession Planning all that kind of stuff. Bestarted looking at the data and we have not had any conversations with the Civil Service commission to date. Not in front of the entire Civil Service commission. Chief scott . Supervisor, let me make sure i understand your question. Can you repeat the question . Ill let director finley repeat it. Chief scott, this is director finley, just following up and checking with the agencies in regard what kind of strategies and recommendations or support or connections the Civil Service commission for your agency . We have worked directly with the Civil Service commission of late after supervisor waltons proposed resolution. Thats been an ongoing conversation. We picked up lot of steam after the proposed resolution. I have been part of some of those conversations. We have a deputy chief, gregory yee whos with that particular body of work and commander ford whos on that call. Thats ongoing. I like to point out, in terms you have our efforts and equity and Diversity Efforts for hire, recruitment and promotion, we have Strategic Plan created. Its a very comprehensive plan which we think will actually put us in a much better position to be successful in this area. Same question for sheriff. We are obviously coordinating with dave and staff. We havent spoken to Civil Service commission directly. Chief scott mentioned, were all part of the process now to make sure were responsive to anything that comes up. I like to direct my same question to partners at d. H. R. Were currently working on a report to the Civil Service commission that we will be presenting hopefully next month. This is in response to supervisor waltons resolution and request from the commission on the review of hiring, Selection Process and training in police and Sheriff Departments. Thank you director finley. We can come back to actually, i like to hear from since we have a representative body, is either president buford or director sims still on the phone . I like to have them weigh in and hear what they have to say about or if they have background or information on the Testing Process and the move to this National Network and what their opinion and feeling is on this. I was part of the group. Im getting on the board of 798. We did speak directly to the Civil Service commission when this process was going to be implemented. We were against it. We felt that it would again, take away from the applicant pool more diverse applicant pool. We spoke directly to the Civil Service commission. At the time it was a costsaving measure. Thats how it was presented to us. Our statements were not heard. Can you say what the result you say you knew what the results will be and what they are. Can you underscore that for the record please . I think that if you look at our applicant pool when i got into the department was about 20 female. I believe its way beneath that now. Its about 10 if not less of our applicant pools are female. It brings in when you start opening up to the whole country, i get lot of as 798 director, i get lot of inquiries about people who are coming into the bay area, coming into the community that dont hold the same values that we do. Outhey are inquirying about a jb when they never set foot in San Francisco or the bay area period. How theyre mentality and their political and their personal agendas are different than what we would like to see as a womens group. It changed the applicant for us. You arent reaching out facetoface, reaching out to the female communities to grasp and to encourage applicants. We arent getting or seeing those people successfully make it through the tower through our academy. At the end, you have people not succeeding and you dont have the hiring. We have one to two females per class. Whereas when i came through, we had five in our class. President buford . Director sims mentioned, when this first came out, usfw did bring the concerns. Thankfully to their efforts, were able to get a california license as a requirement to be hired. If it takes test, you have to get hired, prior to that, it would have opened up even more ]klczpwvc usfw mentioned that without having a ability to recruit within and open it up nationally, they felt members would drop. They put in one person into the budget at the firefighter level which no real budget for recruitment, no real direction. It made it difficult back in that time. We revisit that one individual, reclassify them, get a bigger budget in order to do recruitment like i mentioned on social media and at these other groups and also expanded to have few part timers so we can focus on the value of San Francisco and recruit within the bay area as much as possible. Chief scott . In your presentation on testing, you talked about theres testing on the road, saves applicant time and money. You talked about provides free test prep. What has been your experience in terms of the testing your Testing Network or Testing Processes said the same . What has the reaction been or what has been your experience since were talking about testing . We also used the National Testing network Testing Process. Its online application. We do share some of those same issues with the process that mr. There are some advantages to it. Ill turn this over to commander ford or dave johnson to talk about this. There are fees required and we worked on ways to try to not let that be a barrier as well. We have shared some of the same concerns that the Fire Department shared and sheriff. However, as they have pointed out, until we figure out a Better Process, we have to move forward with what we have. Commander ford, would you like to comment . Before you do that, i want to ask direct question to you chief scott, sounds like this is the decision thats ultimately left up to you as the chief. You have the ability to make that change if you need to. It would be good to see, thats one of the reasons why we have the office of Racial Equity here. Well have them to do independent analysis before and after, listening to what you have to say, have presented today. , all three departments and get some recommendations on things that could be improved to help with the diversity and recruitment. I want to ask, do you have the ability to change that Testing Processes . No. That process rest with the department of Human Resources. That part of the Testing Process. The decisionmaking on whether to use that test or not, it rest with hr . Yes. Okay. That would have been my question for all three departments. D. H. R. Has the ability to make that change. Do they go based on your recommendation . Im sure they would value our input and our recommendations, ultimately, they would make the decision. Okay. We can come back to that. I think dave was trying to comment. If you will supervisor, dave was trying to comment on that. The testing lives with d. H. R. Thats where the expertise is. However, were very open to discussion with each of our departments and we want to support them in hiring the best people and the most Diverse People they can. Commander ford, i didnt mean to cut you off. I wanted to underscore that point. If you have something you want to add, im happy to hear what you have to say. Were gong to move to Public Comment in a minute. We can come back to some of this stuff. Sir, i appreciate you circling back. I echo the chief position. That process a owned and resides with d. H. R. We rely on them to be of a resource and assistance to us with respect to the written. That is the process that lives and resides with them. Okay. Chief nicholson and sheriff, well come back to you on the issue of testing. I know theres probably some people that have been waiting on Public Comment. That concludes the main parts of the presentation. I know myself and some of my colleagues will have some questions coming back. Mr. Chair, if its okay with you, we can go to Public Comment now and then come back to line of questioning for the Different Departments. That sound good to me supervisor safai. If thats okay with the other committee members, why dont we go to Public Comment. Are there any callers on the line . Clerk operations will check to see if we have callers in it queue. For those who already connected by the meeting please press star followed by three to be added to the queue. For those already on hold in the queue, please continue to wait until youre prompted to begin. Youll hear a prompt informing you that your line has been unmuted. For those watching our meeting on cable channel 26 or streaming link or sfgovtv. Org, if you wish to speak, please call in by following the instructions that are on your screen. You will dial 4156550001. After you entered meeting i. D. , press the pound symbol twice. Please connect us to our first caller. I believe programs like these are very necessary in the community. Going into the program, i didnt know where i wanted to do with my life. I think i got the guidance necessary to push me forward. Now i plan ongoing nursing school. I feel like i can put an impact on my community. Seeing patients of colour, seeing young man of colour, really gave them the impact. It makes them comfortable seeing someone represent them. Thank you. Clerk next speaker. My name is ryan white. Im also a member of the cohort 9 from the e. M. S. Core. Im also a member of the San Francisco Fire Department and im also a member San Francisco black Firefighters Association. I feel like programs like e. S. Corps are great. Like my brother previously said, people in these communities see People Like Us coming to them for their help. Im really looking forward to possibly getting Something Like this in the city. It will make a difference and help me out in my life a lot. I feel like it made me a better person from the counseling and human circles and just the way the e. M. T. Class was taught. It was a smaller group. It was easier for me to learn that way. Im just very appreciative. Thank you. Good afternoon everybody. Im brian pointer. I want to give a brief introduction to myself prior to getting into my commentary. Im the oldest of six sib siblings. Graduated from cal state east bay in 2017 and immediately jumped into e. M. S. Corps. I want to go on record and that i am San Francisco Fire Department candidate. Ive been trying to stay active in the community by kind of making an impact with the youth both in my community and out, gathering them and cleaning up neighborhoods, giving them opportunities to make money as well as sports and participating in athletic and opportunities. Providing these opportunities in the youth as an individual, lets me know that kind of speaks to the impact that e. M. S. Corps provides. Im cohort 16, thats the last graduating class. It speaks to just the impact that this has on the community. What everybody saying and thinking is completely true. E. M. S. Corps and individual mike gibson and dave ricotta are providing the best e. M. T. Training as well as life skills. These individuals have impacted my life as well as so many others before me. Clerk thank you very much for the discussion mr. Pointer. Thank you very much. Captain julie miles San Francisco Fire Department. Ive been instructor and im also currently a city college instructor. United Fire Service Women has been part of this discussion for a long time. Let me read a statement that i committed via email. United Fire Service Women is an Employee Group in the San Francisco Fire Department. It is 501c3 nonprofit. Part of our mission is to ensure a diverse and unified department. We are committed to building and strengthening our department and also ongoing training and opportunities to both men and women in our department. United Fire Service Women continues to participate in numerous recruitment and Community Outreach activities including hosting girl fire camps, Bay Area High School girls, school visits, and other community events. We recently hosted a firefighter orientation night in june, recruitment event via zoom. Focused mainly on women applicants. We have 72 participants and help to guide these potential candidates through the application process. San Francisco Fire Department has the highest percentage of women in any department nationwide. At 15 we are still a minority of Overall Department and need to continue our efforts in recruiting diverse and capable applicants. What we have found in our near recruitment is this. You have to see yourself in the job in order to have that opportunity. For me, as a woman of color, i didnt grow up thinking i can be a firefighter. I had to see other women and other people of color in the job as firefighters to see that i could be a firefighter as well. In order to address diversity, we need ongoing opportunities for positive interaction with Community Members. Community outreach and events are also forms of recruitment. Our union is boosting recruitment efforts. Clerk thank you very much for your comments captain. [indiscernible] i cant hear. [indiscernible] we are not able to hear this caller. Clerk are you still there . Now we can hear you clearly. Keep it like that. Will you resume your comment . Stay on the line for a moment. Were going to queue up the next speaker and come back to you. Good morning members of the board. Im from the e. M. S. Corps group in 2015 cohort 9. Im currently a full time registered nurse for the laguna hospital. At the beginning of covid19 epidemic in march, i was chosen intern unit due to outbreak amongst the regular staff. Not one patient of laguna honda hospital has died of covid19. Theres not one day where i look at my accomplishments and do not attribute my progression to e. M. S. Corps. Members of the board, im asking kindly to please continue providing the youth the bay area the opportunity that was given to me and others. Thank you. Clerk next speaker please. Hello supervisor mar, chair, supervisor safai thank you for being here and having this hearing today. My name is keith. Im current recruiter for the San Francisco Fire Department. I been a member of thc department for 23 years. Im also president of sf rescue and a publicly elected official here in San Francisco. I listened to all morning and i have just a few comments. They have to do the n. T. N. It was used because of cost. They externalized that cost to the applicant. That has caused a disparity in the applicant pool. As recruiter, i recommended several minority candidates. Unfortunately, the chief hasnt taken the time to listen to my recommendations and many of those candidates who identify as minority, Spanish Speaking women. I recommended a trans woman several times and the department refused to interview these candidates. Its important to utilize that resource in every way possible. Ive been completely left out of conversations that i think the recruiter should be part of. Why is this . The department shown how much they believe in this process by making this job an entry level position. To me thats not appropriate. The n. T. N. Is proprietary. We have no idea what formula they use to read out the candidates. Thats what we used to gauge what applicants were going to interview. Can you please allow the speaker to finish his comment. Since hes a recruiter for the department . Yes. That sound good. Can you finish your comment . Thank you for that, supervisor safai. I think that the e. M. S. Certification how impacts diversity is important. Were going to have an e. M. S. Corps for the department, we need to include the recruiters to make it the best it can be. My relationship with the e. M. S. Corps in alameda precedes my time as a recruiter. The chief mentioned that we have events at mlk day. We only had two female africanamerican women, 13 africanamerican men total at station 49. We had opportunities to be mlk. There were lot of people that we could have talked to but they refuse to pay a fee of 250. Thats why we didnt participate. This year and theres been times in the past that theyve completely refused to pay and i had to go and be their break. Just show up and do it anyway. Thats what ill end with. If were going to have a department with a recruiter, it has to be in ways that are not just in name only. Thank you very much. Clerk next caller. Hello everyone. Im a San Francisco native raised in district. Im speaking in support of e. M. T. Certification program. The program chief nicholson spoke of earlier. As the chief stated, the city program will be modeled after e. M. S. Corps. E. M. S. Corps is an east Bay Organization that offers culturally relevant curriculum and Wraparound Services to qualify and certified e. M. T. S. This program will give opportunity for the city to collaborate with this organization and offer a pathway into the fire service as well as other allied healthcare careers. E. M. S. Corps has a successful tenure history in Alameda County with over 343 graduates who gone on to careers as firefighters, nurses, med techs and even a few who have been accepted into med school. We need this program in San Francisco. We want to be a part of the progressive change that will offer these at risk young adults an opportunity to live and work in the city that they were raised. We want to be part of rise of income of africanamericans in San Francisco. Which is currently 46,000. It is the lowest of all ethnicities. Im a member of the San Francisco Fire Department working on my 23rd year. When i entered the department in 97, there were 40 africanamerican women in the department. We are currently in our teens. We represent less than 1 of the staffing at San Francisco Fire Department. More of us on the latter end of our careers than those that are just beginning. There are more of us leaving and retiring than offered entry at the academy. Clerk thank you very much for your comment. Next speaker please. Good morning everyone. Im Antoine Davis im a graduate of the e. M. S. Corps im currently a San Francisco firefighter. I been a fitter fo ive beena fittefirefighter for four years. It teaches us life skills. It teaches us skills thats not taught in skills. Give us the ability to create a job and make means for our family. I appreciate the program and the leadership that it brought. Im currently one of the people that trying to bring this program into the city based on what it taught me. I just appreciate everyone for listening. I would love to allow you guys to understand the full depth what this brings and the inner circles we went through to address traumatic experiences we had. The psychology aspect it brought and allowing us to get into e. M. T. Without that program i wouldnt be a firefighter today. E. M. S. Corps gave me ability to do that. In my cohort, i have couple of people who are doctors. One of my classmates is finishing his third year in med school. Multiple nurses and firefighters and Police Officers along with other officials all throughout the Health Community around the bay area. Thank you guys so much for your time. Clerk next speaker please. I its not about quotas or preferential treatment or having equal numbers of people or whatever. Really about removing unnecessary barriers and recruitment and creating qualified applicants and to all the kinds of things reported today. What an outstanding effort has been made. Also the outstanding sophistication of the supervisors who are asking analytical questions. That concludes my remarks. Clerk thank you ms. Chapman. Next speaker please. Good afternoon my name im a San Francisco native and a longtime resident out of district 10. Im adding my comment to this matter today and piggy backing off what chief mentioned about city e. M. T. Is our program that we are developing specifically for San Francisco residents in following the model of e. M. T. Port its been reiterated through other Public Comments how critical this program is. We are as a strong team of individuals of color based out of San Francisco longtime residents, Strong Community access and myself included, investing in our program and development to solve systemic problems moving forward to address the numbers and the statistics. Its critical that we are putting out there that we are developing creating this program so we can serve our community and solve these problems. Your investment is critical. I wanted to add my piece to that. Thank you very much. Clerk any further speakers on the line . That completes the queue. Supervisor safai thank you so much mr. Clerk and operation for all the callers and shared their perspectives during Public Comment. I want to thank supervisor safai for calling this important hearing and thank chief nicholson and chief scott and the sheriff and the director finley and president buford and director sims from local 798 for your presentation. These are very Critical Issues for us to deal with as a city now to ensure that our First Responders, Public Safety department are reflect diversity of our communities, especially now in this historic moment, reckoning of systemic racism in Law Enforcement and Public Safety. I think this hearing has highlighted how we have made progress in our department. Theres a lot of good work happening to ensure diversity in our recruitment, hiring and promotions but theres a lot of need to improve. Thank you and i think we want to it will be helpful if we can organize our questions and discussions on by Department Given that we heard from Fire Department, Police Department and the Sheriff Department on diversity practices. We can start with the Fire Department. Weve already had a lot of data already. Supervisor safai just a note for the record, i know chief scott has to leave by 1 00. He has let us know in advance. If its okay with the chair, i like to start with the Police Department first. Before we go the into Public Comment and some of the other question, chief scott, the question was, how much of your budget is dedicated to your Recruitment Division . I see its eight full time staff. How much of your budget does that equate to and the second question we asked is what is the current demographic makeup of the Police Department . I had the demographic chart emailed to mr. Carroll. If he has it, i would ask if he can put that on the screen for everyone. Just a moment. Ill answer the second question. In terms of salaries alone, the total yearly cost is 1,224,326. Thats just only for the full time recruiters. That doesnt include the 81 part time recruiters. Recruitment units in terms of salaries and benefits 1,224,326. They also on top of that budget for recruitment event. Were allocated at budget for recruitment event. Im trying to get that impact number. I dont have it yet. Theyre getting that for me. Supervisor safai does that include your travel budget and your ability to put on events and different things. Is that just purely salary thats purely salary. Other part is the number travel budget for the events. I have a message out to our chief Financial Officer to get that information to us before this hearing is over. Supervisor safai other thing is i said pretest prep mentorship, surveys, testing on the road, fee waivers. That all seem like it would factor into the cost of what you allocate to recruitment. When you say 81 part time people involved in recruitment, what percentage of their time is dedicated of the 81 people, is dedicated to recruitment. That is factor into the budget of allocation. It could. Theres no set time. Basically, the external cost of putting the show on the road and the cost of the 81 part timers, thats a whole separate financial piece of the puzzle. That doesnt fall in the normal duty. It normally falls into what we call e. W. W. They are part overtime to participate in different events. Supervisor safai it will be good for you guys to compile that information to let us know how much that along with the budget for travel and other activities that you do jyes, sir is available. Well compile that for you. Just to give you clarification in terms of putting the show on the road, traveling and doing the traveling recruitment process, we do that about twice a year. Most of the expenses are not spent traveling across country. On occasion, we do do that. Theres some expenses that are incurred during this process. Our budget 250,000. We actually coordinate with d. H. R. On that. Last year we spent 185,000 of the 250,000. Some of that we were able to Carry Forward from the fiscal year 1819 budget. Yearly, 250,000. Okay. Supervisor safai did you want to review the current demographic information of your department . Yes. I know thats small font. I will go through it. Lets start at the bottom. The question was asked male and female. That last column on total, you see the sfpd total, you asked total count for sfpd, that number is 266 total. 84. 92 male, 15. 08 female. If you go up to the top and down, each department of is broken down by male and female and by ethnicity race. White 48. 01 , that breaks down to 6 of the department is white male, 7. 25 of department is white female. In terms of black, 9. 46 of the department is black and that break down is 7. 60 male and 1. 86 female. Hispanic 17. 51 of our department is hispanic and break down is 14. 06 male hispanic and 3. 45 female hispanic. Asian, break down is 16. 89 , breakdown is 15. 34 male and 1. 55 female. Latino, 5. 92 , that breakdown is 5. 44 male, 0. 49 female. American indian is. 31 and that breakdown is. 81 male. Other, 1. 55 with the breakdown of 1. 3 male and 0. 22 female. One other question that was asked by supervisor peskin, this information is good as of last year when we did this research on how we compare in terms of gender diversity with other departments. I will read it off to you. In terms of other departmentses that part of departments that was part of this outreach. Were 15. 08 female, los angeles pd, they are 19 female, 81 male. San diego police, 16 female, 84 male. Sacramento, 16 female, 84 male. Oakland, 13 female, 87 male, san jose, 10 female, 90 male. California Highway Patrol 6 female, 94 male. This is a part of our Strategic Plan that went out. You can take a look at other departments are like. It gives us a guide how were doing nationally. Were about 5 over the National Average female to male. National average is right around 10. Supervisor safai thank you chief. One other thing that i want to talk about. I have my own i think you heard me say this before, i have my own personal experience not having gone through the application process. I worked with a young woman of color that went through the prosprocess. One of the things that struck me, this was also in the department of justice recommendation, your hiring process is cumbersome. Theres an entire process from beginning to end. One of the things weve talked a bit about testing today. Were going to ask office of Racial Equity to make some recommendations and look at some of the things they heard today and look at the presentation and ask them to come back and give us thoughts. One of the things i want to talk about theres an interview process that happens in your hiring process and i think i saw in chief nicholsons presentation the discussion about Interview Panel. I understand that can you talk about the interview process that happens in different stages of your hiring. As i understand, its retired officers that do many of the interviews as par o as part of e process. Can you talk about that . Ill open it up. What youre referring to is the background process. Let me break down our process. Starts with the online application. Then we have the physical ability test and then the interview. Oral Interview Panel is our sworn members. Not retired. After they get through that, then we go through triage and Background Investigations. Thats where we have some retired members, 960, that are part of that process. We have full time background investigator who are sworn. We were in the process of tricking some transitioning some of those positions to nonsworn. We have a combination of retired and sworn on the Background Investigation process. The additional evaluation happen after that and then theres the hiring. Those are the steps to our current process. We did conduct a fairly exhaustive study in 2018 and took a look back of our hiring processes, where were losing candidates, trying to identify where we can improve. We were able to bring up pretty important information. For women, lot of women were willing being lost in the process with the physical ability test. We were able to make some changes and modify that and put together some training for people that interested. Its open to everyone but focusing on women, sworn members put those classes on to help people get through that test. You saw commander tornado present. Now were up to 22 of our recruits and academy are women. Thats been an improvement. Were looking to get better. That report was done by anna who now works with the city. Its a collaboration with the Global School public policy. It gave us good information. Ill stop there. Commander ford have couple of comments as well. You encapsulated the process beautifully. Just to drill down little further, in my mind, having ben former background investigator myself. It breaks down we had phase a, which is the written, physical and oral. Youre successful during those process and you transition to the second phase, to your point supervisor, the interview process are two fold. There is an oral and interview during the first phase, the written physical piece is just a gauge for the job. Its part of the initial Testing Process. Once you get over the hump and in the become phase, there is another interview per se. Thats the intaker interview a takes place with the assigned background investigator. They welcom look at personal hiy and indepth profile of the candidate and during that process that you have facetoface contact and you start to drill down who the person is. Supervisor safai i have i heard you say there was a study done on the hiring process. They identified that the physical portion was where there needed to be improvements or recommendations for change, particularly for female candidates or recruits. Has there been an analysis done that talks specifically about the overall hiring process in how and where maybe many of our other diverse candidates are lost in the process and recommendations for improvement . Have all done that analysis . I know youre doing it in the hiring process as we speak, has it been done through the lens of Racial Equity and gender equity and Sexual Orientation . All those things. Yes, that was all part of this report that we had done. Part what we saw in terms of moving lot of the diverse candidates during a Testing Process after they take the initial n. T. N. , many of our candidates dropped out after that point. We didnt really have a solid mechanism to reconnect with them. That was one of the improvements that came from that piece. We saw hiring rates, dropouts some of our candidate pools, africanamerican among them. Improving that process and working with d. H. R. To be able to reconnect with candidates that showing interest. One of the things that came out of that report, we have a Better Process now. Again, that part of the testing at the n. T. N. Portion of the testing is own by d. H. R. We have to work with d. H. R. To get access to those candidates. That is part of our improvement in terms of reaching back to those candidates to see if they are still interested in following up. There were other things that came out in the report. To answer your question, yes. It was a pretty exhaustive report look at all pages of the hiring process. Supervisor safai any of my colleagues have any questions in particular . Supervisor haney thank you. It steams like there was some recommendations potentially that would have required maybe other departments or h. R. To do things differently. Was that taken by them . Did they look at their own practices, were you just looking at your practices . There are some things you were saying because you have to go through them and they made a decision about certain things that you only have so much control over it. Thank you for that question. It was collaborative. Definitely d. H. R. Listened to our recommendations. Another one of the things that was an improvement in the process. We used to do a trigger pool test as part of preemployment Testing Process. We were losing lot of people, particularly females to that test. Working with d. H. R. , they changed that process to a web stream test and we saw a tremendous amount of improvement in the pass rate. That was a direct collaborative effort with d. H. R. It is collaborative. D. H. R. Owns that part of the process. They do listen and take our feedback seriously and try to work with us. They do work with us. You may have included this. Just unclear. Is it the sense the applicant pool that we get is significantly more diverse overall than who ultimately enters the department . Let me go to supervisor haney i understand the focus on where people are being held up within the process. Im wondering if the assumption there is the applicant pool is more diverse. Let me go to the actual data. This report that i was referring to compare data from 2013 to 2018. The report was done, completed before summer of 2018. Looking at the rate of diversity between 2013 and 2018 we saw increases in black and hispanic applicants in that 5year period. Pretty significant increases in that 5year period. The actual hire rate, we saw increases in some of those areas. It wasnt as significant as the amount of applicants. We did see an increases that commander ford showed in the powerpoint. Its not as much increases in the applicant pool. We only hire about 5 or 7 percent of the applicants. We have lot of applicants to get at the end. Very small number of candidates actually get through the whole process. I think its important to say, i hope this isnt taken the wrong way. Background process is strenuous and its strenuous on purpose. We ultimately from the entire pool, it is a small percentage that ultimately gets in the door and we armed with our equipment and guns. I guess i was in background for many years. I remember early on, this was years ago, the underlying theme was that the background process, it is exclusive to a degree. Were looking for a certain type of individual who has certain mindset and heart to come in this organization and do this kind of work. This is a unique profession and it requires a very unique personality. Were very all organizations are very particular about who we ultimately hire. Obviously, the implications are huge. If youre not suited or ready for this line of work. Thats the underlining theme. Were considering hiring people, not are they best, the question is are they suitable for hiring. Thats a culmination of a long process that takes sometimes a year. Were talking about physical, oral, background and is when we get into peoples personal and professional history and start crossreferencing information to see if theyre transparent with us. The numbers on face value maybe little alarming belch a pool we have a pool thats out here. I think the underline i theme, can we salvage more people. Is there a way to not. Only cast a wider net but pull people in the organization. At the end of the day, it is a very the process is stringent and everyone isnt suited for this line of work. Supervisor haney i wanted to make one point and some reflection. I know one of the values of this hearing was ability to see whats happening across Different Departments in our city and what folks are doing differently and what the data looks like. It does seem like im sure theres a lot to learn it does seem like the Sheriffs Department, at least as it relates to the demographics to the folks there, looks a bit different in terms of diversity. Is there would ascribe that to . In terms what they are doing, that maybe something other departments can learn from in terms of positive things they said there are things they would learn from you as well. Its funny you say that. I have relatives in the Sheriffs Department as well as relatives in the Fire Department. One of them is mr. Buford. I think it boils down to nature of the work. The way our Sheriff Department is structured, i dont want to overspeak, primarily they work in the jail, they are turnkey. Then dont have any patrol car. Its a different structure. In San Francisco, the police manage the street and the Sheriffs Department manage the jail. I think obviously, the nature of work is different. The implications are different. Being a police officer, in certain communities, is not attractive to pursue that line of work. Conversely, although sheriff are Law Enforcement, the way they function in San Francisco is different than anywhere else. I would say, the demographics at the Sheriff Department look different than Fire Department and Police Department. I think its really the nature of the work and then ultimately who gravitates towards that profession. Policing, we have our moments. To your point, theres a lot of variable and nuances that would feed into the research and the assessment as to whether or not why people of color, africanamerican in particular, are gravitating toward the Sheriffs Department as opposed to the Police Department and Fire Department. There are structural differences, lot of has to do with the nature of the work. Supervisor haney thank you for that. Its something that as were looking at these practices and processes and also as you said, what is drawing people to the work as well. What is it about the Sheriffs Department. For some grupps i grupp for e groups in our city are more drawn to it than the Police Department. I want to flag that. That is something thats notable with the opportunity to look at the Different Department bees. Im sure theres examples with the Fire Department as well. Supervisor peskin i will also note with all due respect to commander ford, theres also very different history in the Sheriffs Department. Interestingly enough, the Sheriffs Department was the only agency that was not subject to a Consent Decree. In large part because the sheriff is elected. Interestingly enough, if you go back to as early as 1971 when the first progressive sheriff was elected and then you had almost 30 years of Michael Hennessy at the helm. That level of diversity was really a function of having an elected official who was directly elected by the people and the people actually got to make choices as to who that sheriff was. It really have noteworthy that when judge conti, long time ago, issued those Consent Decrees at a very shameful period of time, relative to fire and police, the Sheriffs Department never went through that. I think thats in large part why three decades later, they look different. I have to say, lets just call it out little bit, which is that the unit of labor, the Deputy Sheriffs Association has actually not been as much of an impediment to the leadership in that organization over time as their counterpart. The Police Officers association has been relative to every chief and command structure as long as ive been around, which is 20 years. Every single thing, every obvious thing, subject to meet and confer for years upon years. I always say, you have to meet and confer, then you can go forward with a sensible policies that we all agree to. I wanted to get all that off my chest. Thank you mr. Chairman. Chief scott, i do want to say commander fords presentation was very thorough and impressive. Thank you sir. Supervisor safai just to bring it back little bit. I think that we got kind of about thousand feet. I want to bring it back down to the real, which is important. I think one of the things that i like the office of Racial Equity to do is when i hear online, physical, oral interviews, background processes, the d. O. J. Went through a significant number of recommendations. Theres the whole aspect of what process as much as possible, in your recruitment and hiring is objective then how much of your hiring process is subjective and subjective process is where many of the inherent biases are played out. Thats why i highlighted the retired members doing background processes. They cant help but people cant help but bring their biases into the conversation. The other thing to note is today how much energy and effort is put into recruitment and who are we targeting for recruitment and what does recruitment mean . Recruitment can also mean separation. If im just asked to step in an opportunity and im going against people that understand the process better than me or better prepared, i might not score as well or perform as well. An example of that is some of the physical which can be as of objective as possible. There might be some adjustments that need to be made. The Testing Processes itself, when we have a national organization, weve heard it over and over again. It seems to me both from applicants as well as some of the other people that representative bodies. This seem to be something thats a point of contention in the process. That has been an area where you see lot of diversified pool begin to drop off. Its not as reflective as your overall body. I want to underscore that point. I think were going to im going to ask the clair chair to continue the hearing. So we can either call of the chair set a date in the next three or four months so we can come back and people can talk about some of the progresses thats been made and ask the office of Racial Equity to give us analysis and recommendations. Well also be able to see how each department has performed during the budget process and what commitments theyve made to this. I dont necessarily have any other things to say to police other than the Testing Processes seem to be something that should be revisited. Obviously it rests with the Human Resources department, the power of your recommendation definitely could make some significant changes here if they are warranted based on the data. I agree 1000 . As referenced during my presentation, we have quarterly meetings. We definitely will revisit and consider the things that youre talking about and look at mitigate adverse effects. Once we get past the n. T. N. , we feel really good about the work were doing and embracing these applicants and identifying the ones thats suited for this organization. Supervisor safai if the Testing Process is leaving people out and youre getting that ends youre left with a very different makeup. I agree. Like i said before, well look at the n. T. N. Closer and tight up that process and not have the adverse effect its having. Supervisor safai okay. If you can share that study on the hiring process, if you can get that over to director finley and h. R. So they can have access to that and look at it and give their own interpretation an ande help form the conversation. We can go to the Fire Department now. Chief nicholson is still there. Greetings. Oh, just a minute. Director finley, did you have a question or comment . I do have a comment. I can wait until after chief nicholson speaks. You can go ahead. Youre good. Thank you chief and through the chair. Thank you supervisor safai, office of Racial Equity is able and ready with the additional support, our office with perform the analysis. We live in racialized society, the system we set up produce racialized outcome. Its impossible to find a mutual instrument that will produce the type of result that we want in regards to diversity inclusion. Therefore, as a city, we have to work extra hard to make sure that were setting up testing systems, our interviewing systems, our physical tests, background checks in a way that is overcompensate and make sure were not producing as many racialized outcomes that given we live in a im committed to advocating and working and pushing to make sure that with Department Resources and with our Agency Representatives here that we do that work which is necessary for this to happen. It sounds for us given the racial dropoff that weve even seen in each department in regards to testing and hiring needs to be examined. I want to make sure we dont fall in the overall population of San Francisco as an indicator how wel were doing. Were not doing well because of the extreme gentrification and displacement and black and brown people. Were not we have to put in extra to work make sure were not reproducing racialized outcomes that happens because of the society we live in p. P. P. Supervisor safai you heard some of the things presented by president buford and 798. Can we talk a little bit about that . I want to say for the record, i know that you been there for a year. Some of this stuff predates your position and taking over and also understand as you stated, were faced with the significant budget shortfall and economic calamity. Part of the reason why we called this hearing was to ensure as we confront the budget process or tackle the budget process, were going in with eyes wide open. I think this is something everyone made a commitment to and we need to figure out ways as creative as they might be, to make really firm commitments. Heard from president buford about the Recruitment Division, meeting a budget, needing a better classification for the Recruitment Officer and properly funded and additional staffing dedicated to recruitment. I wanted to see what your response to that was and what some of your thinking was since you been the chief now for some time . Thank you supervisor safai. If i can go back for a little bit. When Consent Decree happened, we had a really well staffed well oiled recruitment machine and a Testing Division in our department that mr. Johnson was part of. When i came in, there was all this support. We got to go to workshops and all sorts of things. It was really impactful and really effective obviously. End of the Consent Decree came. Im not sure when the testing unit moved over to d. H. R. We lost that testing unit. Supervisor safai when did the Consent Decree end . Approximately . Im not certain. I cant remember if it was 15 or 20 years. I think it was around 2009 when we were left with not a whole lot of anything. The diversity of our department was really strong at that time. The chief spoke this morning. She came in couple of years after i did. We all had really good support. Fast forward to 2009, we didnt have much of anything. I believe that d. H. R. Hired a Public Safety Recruitment Officer and had that for i dont know how many years. D. H. R. Can speak to that. I dont think that was particularly impactful. Thats when we had no one. In 2015, our former chief hired a recruitment firefighter to do recruitment. Thats what we had since that time. If you look at our Strategic Plan, it backs up lot of what president buford said as well as what i think. I would love to be able to get funding to put in place so we can be as impactful and duty outreach and supportive stuff that we did 30 years ago. The budget. Our Strategic Plan does speak to that and it is extremely important to me. We are having trouble staffing getting enough staffing for our ambulances. Last year, i tried to i came in two weeks before the budget. I asked for additional staffing, additional administrative staffing. Very difficult with the board and got very little in terms of administrative staffing. This year, we are being removed from the budget. Whether we like it or not. That is the reality of it. I dont want to make excuses. I welcome any and all recommendations that come out of this. I look forward to figuring out the solution. Started trying to do something little bit differently. In the past, past 16 years we had one person choose who was going to answer the San Francisco Fire Department. I wanted to change that. Thats why i reached out to all the Employee Groups to ask them to help recommend people that they wanted they thought would be qualified to come into the department by holding panels and having conversations with people. Then to address what director sims said in terms of there being 18 africanamerican women. That is an absolute shame and a travesty and its awful. Clearly, we are not doing something right. Were not doing a lot of things right. How do we make these changes with not a lot of money because we have we just been were all being gutted this year with our budget. How do we make these changes, how do we do what we need to do . Thats the question. Im open to recommendations to ideas, thoughts. I look forward to figuring this out. This is important to me. Supervisor safai i appreciate that. I didnt have any preconceived notions of what we were going to be presented with today. I didnt know that the Police Department had eight full time staff dedicated to recruitment. I knew based on the meetings that we had with the representative groups there was only one person with your department. I didnt know exactly how many in the Sheriffs Department. [please stand by]. I just think there is creative ways that you could obviously you are given 423 million. I dont know what your time number is going to be. You could make a gesture in this budget to find a way, given the circumstances that we are under in terms of this overall climate that we are in, and it is important that our First Responders are making that commitment. I think we have to find a way within our existing budgets, even faced with the shortfall on how to do that. This is actually very, very telling today to see what each department is doing in terms of their commitment and what the outcomes are. If i may just say, supervisor, we do use parttime. We do that with our core committee, Community Outreach and education, but we dont have the resources we need. We dont have the program in place that needs to be in place. I absolutely admit that. I think that is what we were trying to do today, to have an honest conversation and talk about things we can do. We can help you as we go through this budget process. I think the commitment needs to be on your end and we can help support that through the budget process. President buford, i saw you come on. Did you want to Say Something . Thank you, supervisor safai, chair mar, supervisor haney for taking the time to hear us, let us express and share our thoughts and opinions. I look forward to tennin to cong this as we move forward. Funding is an issue with equipment and also with services. I think after todays meeting we can come up with Creative Ideas to move forward to boost our Recruitment Department and be able to reach the communities we are seeking. Thank you all for this opportunity. I appreciate it. I saw mr. Johnson have his hand up. Good afternoon, supervisors. As chief nick console said the Consent Decree was an ordered lifted in 1998. The fire service was transitioned to the department of Human Resources in 2009. They did hire a citywide recruiter. I think that still exists. I am not positive. What did you just say . Recruiter position citywide as opposed to just Public Safety. I think that position still exists but i am not sure. Chief nicholson is saying no. We tried to get in touch with that person a couple years ago, and that position did not exist. You may know something else. That sounds really strange that after the Consent Decree there was a requirement to have a recruiter. Ththe position was citywide and now that position no longer exists. This is recruiter hired two or three years ago not related to the lifting of the situated order. It was the decision of the director to hire the director. It was not just fire other Public Safety recruiter. That doesnt help this conversation, but okay. Supervisor peskin, did you have something to say . Look, relative to fire, the thing that concerns me. A lot of things concern me. The thing that concerns me most is the lack of diversity in the upper promotional ranks. That is the biggest obvious place where there is a big backslide. I mean if we only have given the covid constraints we are under. That is one that actually doesnt inquirycruitment from inside. It is promoting people up from inside. I really hope we can address that. When i was first a supervisor the upper parts of the Fire Department were much more diverse than today. I hope we can fix that as promotional opportunities arise. If i may respond. Yes, chief nicholson, please. Thank you very much. Yes, supervisor peskin this was one of the things i saw we needed to work on when i came in. It is why we are putting together a Succession Plan and training in house for all of our members to be able to get leadership and management and other types of training. The single parent who cant go to a training off site. The Single Person can go to training off site, there is not equity in that. That is part of the longterm plan and we are working with internally as well as with city college on that. You are correct in terms of we have lost most of our africanamerican battalion chiefs in this department. Obviously, most of the africanamerican women in this department over the past several years. I do understand the need to promote. I do understand the need for pipelines, and supportive pipelines as well. You are not getting an argument from me. We have a lot of work to do. Thank you, chief. It doesnt reflect on you at all. I know you are committed to the same goals that we are. I guess a couple quick things. I really appreciated what you just shared, chief nicholson. I am hopeful with your leadership and the folks presenting today we can make real progress. With president buford and director simms that you had incredible partners who are knowledgeable and want to address any of the barriers. One of the things i want to flag. Part of it is the process and testing. There was a lot director sim said as far as the process set up. Keith called in to speak to the experiences he has had as a recruiter and people he wanted to put forward who didnt get through the process. It sounded like even within the recruitment structure that exists that the person out there working on that is sometimes feeling stopped by roadblocks or unsupported. Are there things to do to better support the mechanisms in place in the recruiter that you do have . Like i said, our Recruitment Division is way under funded and under staffed. Are we perfect at everything we do . No. We are looking internally to see what we can do differently. It started this last year earlier this year in terms of having other folks be on those panels. Like some of the folks that called in today so they can really vet someone to say, yes, chief i think this is a great person. That is really what we are looking at. I know that can also be panels can be problematic as well. We are working to changing what we can. I also have a Racial Equity officer. I brought this person into the Administration Prior to the Racial Equity because i know that he has Big Solutions for things. You know, we are committed to making things better. I appreciate that and would love to be involved with next steps. I know supervisor safai you will follow up on this. I do want to say to underscore something because i know you know this, chief. The folks in my district who are every day interacting with some of the most Vulnerable People in our city, people who are experiencing Mental Illness or Substance Abuse addiction, and having people who want to be there working with those folks and have philosophy around what it means to serve in San Francisco. Director simms was on point about that. It is critical and sometimes we think of that when we come to the police and not as much as fire. The diversity is essential and critical and in a connected way who wants to be here and understanding what it means to serve here in the communities that rely on your department. I just wanted to add that. Thank you for your commitment to this and partnership on it. Thank you, supervisor. Any other questions or comments directed to chief nicholson . Through the chair. I just want to under be score a couple things as i was reviewing what the sfpd did. You know, they dedicated a quarter Million Dollars to work on events for this. They have done testing on the road, mentorship. The other thing that struck me was a quarterly meeting with hr and they also had continued collaboration with Employee Groups, many of whom are similarly represented. What is your reaction . Again, and i understand when you get the budget you get a lump sum and you have existing requirements and you have the ability to allocate and put resources into it. It seems as though there is existing resources within your department, chief. I think that is why we wanted to have this conversation today. If you have those existing resources and we understand. I visited some of the stations and one of the first things i hear when i talk to the battalion chief or the captains on site is that they are worried about equipment, being able to get in the field to do their work. I dont want to minimize that. I understand you have existing staffing and requirements. When i hear from the head of the Police Excuse me president of the local 798 that getting recruitment position similar to what i see over here sfpd that they put the main person in charge of recruitment at q50 and all other recruiters q2, it sends a message this is a real bona fide division. You have one person at entry level position with no budget, resources, additional staffing. How do we other than the answer is give us more money and we can build that up. How can we Work Together in the existing budget and resources to get additional work . Also encourage the Employee Groups to continue to build so there is a flow of information and ideas happening within the department. Thank you, supervisor safai. Yes, i meet with Employee Groups regularly. I met with them yesterday. I spoke with the president of the bfa the night before that. We have open communications. I speak to the president of the united bar Service Women. I work with the president of the Asian Firefighters Association here. Communication is absolutely open and honest. In terms of their involvement, they do the captain spelled out what the united bar Service Women are doing, black Firefighters Association does a whole lot in communities. When i came on board a year ago, there was a lot of work that needed to be done throughout the department administratively. We set up committees, a multitude of committees with personnel from the field and from the Employee Groups as well as local 798 to work on all sorts of different topics. One is the Community Outreach and recruitment and education. We have that. You understand this because you are working in your position. Is that core group and the Employee Group, my question is are they working in partnership with the Recruitment Office . They are talking to you. It is similar to the Police Department. Their core team is constantly meeting with the Employee Groupings and chief. Is that happening . It sounds like missing communication or link there. Recruitment officer is part of the core committee. Every Employee Group is represented on that committee. They are speaking to one another and are things perfect . No. Room for improvement . Absolutely. We are learning every day as we go. I am by no means saying we are doing the absolute but that is what we are aiming for. I appreciate any recommendations, thoughts, i want to follow up to see where we can go with this. What about response to the giving the proper rank and title similar to i dont know what q50 is in the Police Department. What about that . I heard that from president buford and director simms. It seems that predated you. It could be an opportunity within your own department for promotion in terms of upping the rank. That doesnt require more testing or any of the things we talked about. What about a bona fide position similar to what it was during the Consent Decree or at the end of the Consent Decree. I would love to make it a bona fide division again. We need the resources for it. We need multiple people as well as civilians to do the proper job. One person is not going to it is not happening. It is not enough. I would love to be able to say we could get that in this budget season. We know what the budget looks like right now. I guess what i would say if you are committed. Are you committed to putting that in the budget and trying to enhance that on the recommends here today. You have constraints based on requirements of budget constraints. It also takes a commitment there. I think that and i hate to keep using it as parallel. What the Police Department has done. Over the years they were pushed into this position or motivated themselves. I am prepared to working with local 798 to go through the budget process and supervisor walton expressed those concerns as well to see how we can help you with that through this budget process. I will absolutely have a conversation with the mayors budget office. I hope they do not laugh at me. This is big for me. This is what i interviewed about as well, this is equity. It is just, you know, it is a matter of funding and getting the positions through the budget process as well. Just one last thing if you are comfortable. You are one of the highest ranking lbgt members in San Francisco. I want to see what you thought in terms of lgbt recruitment or advancement or opportunities within your department, how that is going . They are one of the representative groups you meet with. I wanted to give you an opportunity to talk about that. Yes, there is we do not collect statistics on bg on lgbn the department. You cant ask that question . Correct. I know lgbtq people are in the upper ranks and all throughout the department, but it is not quite the same as our other demographics. You feel the environment there is encouraging and promoting . Absolutely i do, yes. Any questions or comments or any colleagues for chief nicholson . I do not at this time. Thank you. Thank you, chief nicholson for acknowledging the need for the Fire Department to really address its capacity to further diversity. I think it is clear from our discussion the board sees this as a high priority. We will work with you on this. Thank you. I want to end by saying we will see what you guys are doing and work to continue to help and guide through the process. You have my commitment. I appreciate you answering the tough questions and making a commitment to this and we will work with you during the budget process along with Employee Groups and local 798. Thank you very much. Can we shift to the Sheriffs Department. The sheriff is back now. Are there any questions or comments for the Sheriffs Department . My question to the chair, thank you for coming back. Similar to what we asked, we understand that your numbers are stronger, your budget is a lot smaller than the other two departments that spoke before you. Your number of deputys half the Fire Department. You have twopart time deputies on this one fulltime staff for recruitment. I want you to react to some of the things that sfpd has done in the areas you think there might be a need for improvement. What i didnt see. Do you have represented Employee Groups you meet with and confer with, meet with and get in put on and advice and guidance along with recruitment and hiring for diversity purposes . Thank you for the followup questions. I did drop off but i am back. To answer your questions, yes, we do work with both the representative collective bargaining units to represent not just entry level and sworn deputies but supervisor and management staff. We work with them on the issues they bring up related to recruitment, retention and diversity. We also talk to dhr. I think earlier as the Police Department mentioned some things because we are more in line with the Law Enforcement profession as part of Public Safety. It is interesting to note part of the ability to be successful with limited exposure is that we work in a system, a lot of the stuff we do is in the jails and in the criminal justice system, in the courts. We have daytoday exposure to underserved communities and people of color and people who are involved to varying degrees. People who provide support, services, who provide part of the process. By being a partner we have the ability to reach a group of people who may be interested in our profession, a little separate from the local Police Department experience. It is an advantage to us to lever anoraktual participation in that process and who we are in that process. It has led to our successes. As you asked earlier how are we going to do more with what we have because of the current yout budget . We respect 165170. The budget right now is 220 million with salaries and benefits at 197. Recruitment is 280. That does include the deputy salary. We do have basically 1 of the budget dedicated to recruitment with the ability to use our discretion on the varying degrees we can invoke. Captain sanford is the lead on that. We have an entry level position. That is the actual spd for recruitment. Part of the job in the Administrative Services is oversight of these efforts. We are fortunate. He has strong ties to the community to leverage our participation and our eco jobs program for youth. That was under the Prior Program we partnered with other Community Group to keep that going for youth engagement. I am offtrack but i forgot to mention that earlier and i want to straighten that up as well. I would ask the same question supervisor peskin asked in terms of upper ranks promotion. That is a good question. Our newly promoted we provided the information on we have 64 people of color promoting to sergeant lieutenant out of 19 total promoting up. It is reflective and consistent with basic numbers for management staff. Upper executive level management. As the chief mentioned we dont keep statistics or ask whether or not they are members of the q committee. We have members of upper level commandery negative of the same percentages we have in the lower ranks of sergeant and lieutenant. Any other questions from directors or members of the committee . Sheriff, one question. I was wondering if you could speak to those communitybased relationships to target black and brown folks to bring them into your organization . What we have done in working with less resources. We have leveraged the members of our department and sworn staff who are members of our community. Our recruitments revolve around suggestions from our own staff as to what segments of the community we should reach out to. That has formed our strategies over the past few years. We have been a mom and pop organization when it comes to using our own people to tell us where to go to get these things out there. We have used that. We partner with the conservation core and other organizations in the past to outreach to youth. One thing i did personally was we have part of our engagement was Junior Deputy program. I mentioned earlier and we try to get out there to do clinics related to interest. We went up to Juvenile Justice Center a few months ago. Myself, captain stanford and another captain and provided basketball clinic for juveniles up there. It was part of our process to reach out not just for recruitment but to engage with people to just really message out that we are here for them in any other ways other than being just as involved. I think those efforts that we engage with the community. The organizations i am looking forward to meeting with you. I have spoken to director davis about that. Thank you so much. Colleagues. Any other questions or comments . Thank you. I am good. Thank you, sheriff. All right. Maybe we can move to wrap up this hearing. Thanks, supervisor safai and your legislative aid for organizing such an important hearing. Do you have Closing Remarks . Yes, i would like to make Closing Remarks if that is okay. Thank you. Thank you, chair, for allowing us this leeway. I know this was a long hearing. I want to say since i have been supervisor and this is my fourth year. I can count on one hand the number of hearings i have called. I am very selective. That doesnt mean i dont believe there i is a necessity o have hearings. I will cosponsor hearings with colleagues. One of the most important roles as supervisors is the power of inquiry. My purpose today was not to embarrass anyone. It was not to make anyone feel as though they were singled out. It was to learn as much as we could and to highlight an important issue in the climates we live in. People talk about ideas but for me this was one of the ones i not we could have Lasting Impact here in San Francisco in how we are represented in our First Responders. Those First Responders are the ones that are here today are the ones interacting with our communities of color that experienced a historic racism and oppression. If we are going to have a representatives body that is more of what we see in the Society Today as director simms said we cant use the demographics of San Francisco as the yardstick. San francisco is going through a major gentrification, for lack of better word, for historic communities and others have been displaced and not a good example. The demographics of the bay area or california or those interacting with the community that have the most interaction might be better. Who you are interacting with Community Members and represents that work force it is important to be reelective of that. There are many yardsticks we can use. We knew the audit was hiring within the Police Department. We wanted to do compare and contrast. It was telling today. I learn a lot and i appreciate the teams for sharing that information. Director simms and the Human Rights Commission and director davis for allowing the energy to be put in to this from the local 98 and for participating. I want to give a special thank you for putting in tremendous effort. I feel bad i amsor rye i am sot quick enough. Recruit men and hiring of women in the Fire Department. I apologies for that. I do want to make a moat i am going to ask i am going to ask this hearing be continued to the call of the chair. We can then set a specific date. I dont want a date off the top of my head in the next three or four months. We will ask the office to look at the data they have here today to simply come up with recommendations and see areas for improvement in all three departments. Today we compared Police Department to Fire Department and Sheriffs Department. I think there are lessons to be learned and we have to be more creative within each department. There were discussions about increasing budgeted and the rank. A diversified work force in different areas is extremely important. That is more important given the times we are in. We cant use the budget process as a reason for not making that firm commitment. We have to affiant creative ways. They can use existing resources. Lastly, i want to underscore. It was telling the to hear those in the police and Fire Department that the testing mechanism when it was changed had a Significant Impact on the outcome of a diversified work force. That is something that i want to specifically under score for the office of Racial Equity to look at in terms how we are going to continue to do that and use that moving forward. That is a major impediment to some of the goals told. I want to thank you supervisor marfor ifor sitting through theg hearings. It is amazing because you do these all of the time. I appreciate your input today. I hand it back to you, mr. Chair. Thank you for this important discussion we had today. On supervisor safais motion to continue this hearing to the call of the chair, mr. Clerk, please call roll. Small amount of housekeeping. The house did change with return of supervisor haney to the committee. The appointment was effective until haney arrived. If we could get the usual pan telpanelof three. So moved. Vice chair peskin mover to call of chair. Aye. Member haney. Aye. Chair mar. Aye. Mr. Chair, there are three ayes. Thank you, mr. Clerk. Thank you everyone. Can you please call items 6 through 16 for closed session. Sure. Agenda items 2 through 16 . Yes, 2 through 16. Various ordinances and resolutions settling lawsuits against the city and county. Members of the public should call the Public Comment number. 415 6550001. Enter meeting id1464783455. Press pound twice to connect to the meeting and star key followed by 3 to speak. System prompt will indicate you have raised your hand. Wait until you are unmuted and you may begin your comments. Mr. Chair. Before we go to Public Comment on the closed session, supervisor peskin do you have anything . Thank you, chairman mar. As supervisor safai indicated. This hearing has gone on for four hours. Unfortunately, i need to be somewhere else as of 2 00 which i am 10 minutes late and 10 minutes away. I think we have two choices and it is in your and supervisor haneys hands to continue these items to our next meeting or to hear it without me. I have to leave at this point for which i apologize. I had no idea we would be in this hearing for over four hours. Thank you, supervisor peskin. I would ask if deputy City Attorney pearson can comment on whether continuing these settlement agreements 2 through 16 on to the next meeting would be okay. Department City Attorney pearson. It is your call whether to continue the items. I have been prepared to be joined in closed session by my colleagues litigating hastings. They are prepared to walk you through that settlement. They would be in a better position than i am to talk on impacts on a continuance, but with respect to the other cases i am not aware of external deadlines. I leave it to the committee to decide what they want to continue. We can consider continuance in closed session. Yes. Supervisor peskin. Yes, i am not able to stay for the closed session at this point. Thank you. Sorry everybody. Thank you. Maybe we can go to Public Comment right now on the closed session items 2 through 16. Mr. Clerk are there any caller on the line . Thank you very much, mr. Chair. We will check for callers in the queue. For those connected press star followed by 3 to speak to this item the entirety of the litigation agenda. For those on hold in the queue continue to wait until you are prompted to begin. You will hear the prompt that your line is unmuted. If you are watching by streaming or through sfgovtv if you wish to speak on this item call in by following the instructions on your screen. I will repeat. 415 6550001. Meeting id today 146 4783455. Press pound twice and then star followed by 3 to enter the queue to speak. Could you connect us to the first caller, please. Hello. I am a resident of district 8. I am calling to ask the audit and Oversight Committee to vote no on the item on the closed agenda. It will endanger unhoused people. The lawsuit is racist and unjust. In particular the goal of the tenderloin node. [indiscernable] the visible poverty is not a crime. I vote with the other 40 organizations in the tenderloin to reject the settlement. You can avert the disaster. Well over 1600 are in the tenderloin. You can end the dangerous precedents of litigating and allow the coalition on homelessness parties granted intervention lawsuits that did not have an opportunity to participate in the initial settlement a seat at the table. Thank you for your time please vote no on the hastings settlement. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Could you please connect us to the next speaker. I am a resident of tenderloin district 6. I am calling to urge you to vote no on the hastings settlement item 12. My reason is contrary to what my collea b