that we double up in this category then? you are a consultant. you are giving us advice for now and in the future. so if you believe it's going to go up, why was that not in the recommendation that came before the board? >> everybody in this room needs to understand that you hold securities in two places. you give them to managers and those managers make the decision on if the security is attractively valued or not. >> as a consultant, why don't you recommend us investing more money in the field if you think it's going to go up? >> we're not recommending adding additional energy to the portfolio unless a manager hired to make that recommendation determines that that's what they should do. we're arguing that you don't take away that choice from them. the figures i quoted to you do not embed an expectation that energy prices will increase. what they do embed is taking energy away diversifies the portfolio. >> you made a statement that we're making a political statement. could you please back that up? my argument to divest is based on return. where does your statement that it's political come from? is it a resolution? are you reading into us? >> that was not you as a board. i'm saying that divestment in gem represents a view that energy is bad and we ought to get out of it. it's not based on forward-looking return and risk sectors. that's not you, your board. divestment in general. >> go back and listen to how you said it and you can determine for yourself. it was a direct statement that it was a political statement by us. >> if you took the action indicated. >> thank you. please. i know we have a lot of questions and a lot of points we want to make. >> thank you, president. board members, to begin, i'm going to spend most of my time speaking about the motion that staff is recommending to the board. for reasons i've articulated in 5-27, there are several reasons. i hope you have read them. there are 17 reasons why we're unable to support the motion, but i want to spend most of the time on the motion that we're recommending to the board. the first -- and let me start by talking conceptually. john mentioned early on about having a broad aspiration. you've heard me speak before, our members have not for the most part, but i believe that the human experience is in the midst of a major transportation from the industrial age to the science and tech and innovati innovation era. and it has sweeping experience for the human condition. so far, this revolution has been under way for about 30 yearsable it's improved calculations, convenience, and mobility, but it's barely started and it will significantly improve through artificial intelligence, gene therapy, gene editing, electric vehicles, automated vehicles, mobile payments, robotics, everything in the human experience is going to get much, much better over the next number of decades. one of the things that's in this transformation, that is under way, is how we produce energy. what is not known, what is not clear at all, and john, i believe made clear, is the pace, the scale, the timing and who the winners and the losers are going to be. i have seen many times through my career of companies who have re-engineered themselves. i could give 100 examples like that. so having to make decisions in the present when the future is unknowable is -- we conduct an extensive amount of research in a granular process. with that in mind, we have made six recommendations to the board. the first is a carbon-constrained strategy. it reduces the carbon emissions in our index strategies by 50% and we're recommending an allocation of $1 billion because even as we see that we're in the midst of a revolution in how we produce energy, we don't know the timing of that. we can see it's under way. we don't flow if it's 15 years or 55 years, but we can see it's under way. we also don't know during that time frame what companies are going to re-engineer themselves and what companies will emerge. we can see it's under way and we're confident in recommending a carbon-constrained strategy that reduces our carbon 'emiss n emissions by 50%. that's $4.2 billion. when new york city adopted this, i believe it was 1%. [inaudible] so 1.1%. ours is four time that initial scale and i think that new york has or is considering increasing that to 2%. our investment would be double the scale of what the so far leader in this carbon-constrained strategy. when john mentioned vanguard, pioneer, i definitely believe we are and i have more to say about that. the next item, it's groundbreaking and not to be underestimated. we have five people in our public market overseeing $16 billion. they have a ton of responsibility. so having dedicated resources to this can be very impactful for what john and ophere were talking about the scale of people, pensions, sovereign wealth funds, family offices, that are engaged in this process. i believe that it was mentioned the collaboration of $27 million worth of assets that we've partner together with. this is relatively new. actions 2, 3 and 4, are a part of taking our engagement up several levels, okay, from having people that do it when they can to full-time, dedicated staff. item number five, pursue renewable energy and carbon-constrained strategies. first, i want to talk about what we've done. so far, we've invested in a private equity strategy. we were one of only two investors, institutional investors, in that strategy. one of only two. the others were family offices. unfortunately, we're not a private foundation. we've can't just invest however it is that we've want. we're held to a fiduciary prudence and level of process that a family office or private foundation is not held to. very invested in that strategy and another that the board approved last month. i can't say it's name. i'm not sure if it's closed yet. we invested in a china public equity strategy. that may sound strange. china set a goal to have 10% of auto production be electric vehicles. do you know where the u.s. is? under 1. and they will go to 12% in 2020. and they will march higher from there. >> how difficult is it to find those investments? is it an issue -- >> in that instance, in that instance, we're the only public pension plan in that manager. $4 billion. they don't do any marketing. it's all word of mouth. you don't find them in any manager databases. 16% plus annualized net returns over 20 years. >> i think what she's saying is, is it hard to find a manager that will earn a sufficient return and find things that align with our values? >> it is hard in two -- a couple of regards. manager research is hard. most managers are going to underperform. i think significant asset returns are achievable through active management and selection. it's hard. most will not do well. and it takes a lot of work. do you remember the hours? 600 hours. >> 600 hours. >> to research that one strategy. that one strategy, it was up 50% last year. >> what i think we're seeing -- and this is something we'll have to fight against -- we're going to see more and more people wanting more and more renew aab. and that means there's going to be crowding. we'll say, there's not enough for us now, so how do we find these or what do we do? >> let me come to that. this china manager took a 10% position, large position. and we made a large investment. we have $25 million in this one company. and that company is the leader in electric vehicles and lithium battery production in china. i think they're going to be huge. now i amway out on the edge in terms of how i see e.b.s developing. john and i were talking about this several months ago. right now, it's less than 1%. i think in 25 years, it will be over 50. not everybody believes that. there are two large flagship names that don't think that e.b.s will ever take off. i couldn't disagree more. in china, because they've set a national policy goal that that company is a big winner. >> let's get back to the report. >> i will catch up real quick. other things we've done. we did the fossil fuel index. we divested in nine coal companies. there is still more we can do here in term of pursuing renewables and carbon-constrain strategy, but it takes time, resources, research and process. we all have 24/7. when we spend here with you, it has to come from something else. we can come up with good ideas. we have an edge of manager research being in the bay area. all the best managers in the world are in the bay area. it's easy to go to asia. it's easy to go to new york, flagship city to the world. but we need resources. we definitely need to conduct research. and a process, you would expect nothing less than that in any investment we make, that we conduct a granular research before we make decisions. i'm confident if we do these six things, we're a vanguard and a pioneer and out in front. and that our returns will continue to be as they've been for the last four years, that they will continue to be top percentile. >> can you touch base on the sixth point of your recommendation? >> sure. number one is carbon-constrained strategy for $1 billion. 4% of our assets. twice what new york is now. second, hire a director of social responsibility investle ing to coordinate level two of the board's policies and also recommending to hire an analyst in that as well. number three, to partner together with other pension plans and key institutional investors. you've heard of their growing size. oil companies -- and oil is only 30% of global energy production. last year the world consumed 1.5 trillion gallons of gasoline. how much resources do you think the companies have? do you think we should walk away rather than try to engage and effect and change how they allocate capital when they have the kind of resources that they do? i don't view that as a responsible thing to do. i think we should try to effect change. number four, increase activities as an asset owner through p.r.i., which is also a new development for sfpers. and there are three pages in staff's recommendation on various actions, first of all, the principles, and then the suggested actions. there are three pages of those. and we would like to get to work on all of those. and we're going to. number five, renewable and carbon-constrained investments, some of which we've done and there's more we can do. number six, develop a responsible phased, engaged approach to diverse from the worst of the worst of a case-by-case basis. each of the companies are their own individuals. each of those companies is the own story, they have their own past, present, and planned future. i don't view it as responsible to divest of all 200 in a lump sum, especially if we learn through engagement that they have -- maybe they've been a bad actor in the past. none of us is the sum of our worst mistakes. none of us is. we have to look to the future. who will be a good corporate citizen. who is helping us to develop analysis. we have to develop research of which to divest in any company and i know you would require that of us to do so. >> i would like to go to public comment in a second. but there was a comment about a financial basis for divested. had we divested in may, how much money we would have earned or lost since may, 2017? >> as of december, so i need to update the numbers based on alan's comments, we would have lost about $120 million, $130 million. since july 1, i should say. i don't have the data back to the exact date of the motion. from july 1 to yesterday or the day before, we would have lost about $120 million. that's from -- if we had divested of the c.u. 200, those companies, those investments, have made $130 million approximately since july 1. now depending on where we made those investments to, they've outperformed the s&p 500 or global index by about 10%. >> you are saying those energy stocks have outperformed the index -- >> by about 10%. the total return to 23 or 24 to about 13 or 14. >> is that assuming that wire holding that in cash? >> so that assumed divestment. if we had invested it back to the msci, the net effect would still be about $50 million, if we had taken it out of the c.u. 200, put it in a global index, because it would have cost us $50 million in six months. >> if you blanketed everything and didn't go to each individually? >> correct. and that's before transaction costs. >> is it fair to say rather than cherry picking which years, because we can go back a year or two and figure out the deepest hole, but if we took our $400 million in this sector, we made 3.8% or in the s&p 500 would have made 83% and that's a $400 million differential. >> even further, go back 25 years. >> you can always identify a starting point -- i was asking the question that was given to m me. if we had invested in energy the last 10 years, we would have made more money investing in the index. going back 20, 25 years, you would have been better with the current investments. >> so can you give me the return of the c.u. 200 for the last 25 years versus the s&p 500? >> c.u. 200 is not an active strategy that publishes returns or its holdings every year, so technically i can't. the only thing i can do is take its current holdings -- >> and go back 25 years. >> that's right. but you don't know that that would have been -- >> but what would that have been? >> i don't have the answer, but could i do that. >> how about the energy index? if you went back 25 years versus 10 years -- we know for 10 years, it's -- you have to look at markets over full-market cycles. if you said 25 years, which one -- >> this is on page 21, if you would like to refer. and you will see that over the past 20 years is the energy indexes outperformed by about 20 basis points. it has had a bloody, horrible last 10 years. over the last 30 years, though, it's outperformed by 1.1. you are getting to something meaningful when you talk 1.1 over 30 years, compounded, that's like 50%. >> what is that in dollars? >> if you are talking -- >> our dollars for our pension. >> energy index is about 6% or 7% on about $12 billion. so that's a $700 million investment. we are under weight energy, by the way, because of the things we've done. i would need time to do the math. >> before we go to public comment, i want to bring to the attention of the public that the city attorney has informed us that we are not able to vote on this motion until each member of the public has had an opportunity to comment. so with that said, i need to leave. i'm sorry. i want to vote. so perhaps you can self-regulate whether or not you need to comment. not trying to stifle public comment, for the record, but there's a limited amount of time. >> what time do you need to leave? >> i have a hard stop time at 4:00. i announced this earlier. it's no surprise i love you, too, because i can't be here all day. >> so -- i think supervisor peskin is here and would like to make some comments and we have, jed holtzman that would like to open up the public comment as well. mr. president, the rest is for you. >> we have about 100 speakers cards. so about one minute apiece, it's 100 minutes. that would take us to about 4:40 p.m. i'm not asking anyone to not speak. you have the right to speak. let's start off public comment with supervisor peskin, please. sfwlt thank you, president, honor ab honorab honorable members, i think the last title i was here four years ago when i turned 50 and then unretired and got my job back. thank you to my colleague, supervisor cohen, for the continued interest for what is a fiduciary responsibility and moral imperative of our time. i cannot implore you enough to do something that is significant and meaningful. aspirational goals are lovely. time is of the essence in this matter. the year that i came in here to retire is the year after supervisor cohen and my former colleague supervisor avalos had passed a resolution. in the 10 years i've been on the board of supervisors, i've been reticent to influence the investment decisions of this body. and i understand that as somebody that votes on the budget every year. and i understand we make contributions to the retirement system and that the better you perform the less we have to take out of the general fund. i get that. but i also get that we have a seawall that needs to be armored because of sea level rise. as a remember of the california coastal commission, we saw more emergency permits than in any previous year. mr. martin is right. nobody is denying it, but time is of the essence. i'm not interested in headlines, and i don't say that about mr. de blasio in new york. i'm interested in something with real dates, real teeth. to that end, i'm honored to be part of a national movement with labor and people that stood against the dakota access pipeline and it is the imperative of our time to have real, meaningful action. and i say that five years after the board of supervisors, left, right, and center, unanimously passed a resolution that we recommitted to with a new complement of supervisors in 2017. please divest as quickly as possible. and i don't claim to be an investment genius, but as to the types of assets that have not performed for 10 years and five years, i see no reason that those cannot be sold immediately. i think that would send a message to the investment community. it would send a message it other retirement systems that san francisco means business. bottom line, it has to have dates in it. we can't wait around for reports and more strategies. it's time to act now. thank you. [applause] >> mr. holtzman, i didn't call you, but thank you very much. sorry. i have a whole stack here. i'm going to try to call four or five at a time. if you are next door and you hear your name, come over. first up, pam something lee. pam ti lee. and i appreciate everyone's enthusiasm, but every time you clap, it slows down the process and makes it harder for everyone to get up and speak. following mrs. lee will be ami hahn, local 21. followed by sara greenwald. >> i will make it brief. >> thank you, supervisor cohen. i encourage you to speak and to act accordingly because water is life and to divest. and i'm hoping that other speakers that are here today can decline to speak because we need to have the vote to have happen. i'm making it brief. please vote yes. thank you. >> thank you. up next, we have mihan from local 21, followed by sara greenwald. >> good afternoon, commissioners. i'm staff at local 21. i have a letter that our retirement committee has drafted that i wanted to read to you guys. >> do you have a copy for us? >> i do. i only have two copies. >> we want to be sure that the board has one so it reflects in the record. >> local 21 represents a great many active employees and retirees of the city and county of san francisco that have a sincere interest in the responsible management of the pension fund. local 21 pension advisory committee is made up of active city employees and staff that are tasked with providing oversight on behalf of the workers. we've reviewed the staff recommendation and unanimously voted to communicate the following. first, the members of local 21 are firmly dedicated to the responsible care taking of our environment and taking appropriate steps to limit the impact of fossil fuel usage. second, the committee is encourages by the six-point recommendation for taking action on this topic, but would like to request more information regarding specific timelines for each of the action items lefted in the staff plan. the committee would like to communicate their grave concern regarding the possibility of a mass divestment of fossil fuels within a short time frame. the committee would advocate that the board undertake no such rash action until completing a complete analysis of the financial impact the effect it would have on pension performance and costs. we appreciate and understand the desire to divest from fossil fuels from different entities, but we must understand the implications of such a decision before it's made. >> sorry. time. >> thank you very much. >> again, everyone has 1 minute. we're going to announce loudly when you are at your 1-minute mark. understand the constraints we have. sara greenwald, are you present? seeing she's not here. i will set her speaker card aside. phil casky, followed by margaret pierce. >> phil casky, retired from the water department. i think -- i want to say briefly the water department is an incredibly wonderful system. it's one of the most protected systems in the world. and we didn't get that way by being unprotective of the environment. so burning fossil fuels is not protective of the environment. and i would like to keep the water system the way it is and i think that san francisco can be a leader in many, many ways and by divesting is one way to do it. thank you. >> thank you. up next, margaret pierce. >> thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak. everyone wearing a purple sticker is in favor of divestment. this is the moral imperative. but i'm afraid what we're going to do is have so many people talk that you will have it leave and we won't be able to vote. i would like to know how many of those of us wearing purple stickers that would like to see you vote now rather than listen to more talk? >> president, can we have a movement to speak with the crowd about this? >> we're going to abide by 1 minute for each person. if you want to pull people outside, that's fine. we need to proceed. >> i think he wants to audit. >> when it's your turn to speak, you can audit everyone in the room. >> thank you, mrs. pierce. up next, sean connelly, elizabeth miles, judy beck, curtis wu. elizabeth miles, are you in the room? followed by judy beck? followed by curtis wu. >> judy beck is giving up her turn. >> i will give up my turn. >> she's not here. >> if you don't want to speak, stand up from your seat and say you no longer want to address the commission. >> i will use my minute to audit the crowd, if you don't mind. how many people would like for them to vote now? how many? >> yeah. just vote now. >> i give up my time. >> we are bound by law to call your name. if you don't want to speak, stand up and say you don't want to speak. >> i will speak, but very quickly. i want to mention that we voted in favor of a resolution to seek divestment. and in march, the chief investment officer divested $200 million. he did it because of an economic reason as well as for an environmental and e.s.g. reason. and i also want to mention where engagement has gotten us. i believe goldman sachs invested $244 million in energy transfer partners as recently as 2016. one of the members -- >> time. thank you. up next, we have judy beck followed by curtis wu. >> i give up my turn. >> thank you. up next, curtis wu, followed by cindy shembone. >> i will give up my turn. >> i will give up my time. >> thank you very much. ian monroe, followed by eileen fits faulkner. and mishicant fioli. >> ian monroe. i teach classes on climate change at stanford and among the things that we take out are fossil fuel companies. we have about $130 million in assets. our flagship e.t.f. has been traded for two years. i support divestment, with a divestment strategy. it can be a better financial performing strategy in alignment of your feiduciary -- >> time. thank you. up next, eileen fits faulkner, mishi -- >> we need a rapid response to the pressures of the world. your vote today can begin to change the trajectory. with every city that divests in fossil fuel, our future becomes brighter. as you look at your new investments, look toward a path that's better for all the people. yes, you can be in energy, but in clean energy. you hold a lot of power in your hands and it's a choice to get us away from a catastrophic future. what good is retirement pension if your world is dead. we're on the brink of change. be the change of good. invest in your constituents' future that creates a life for them. this is a city and the future -- this is for this city and the future generations of our planet. thank you. >> thank you. up next, mishi she -- >> i don't need my turn. >> larry barsetti, trevor martin, lisa bloom. >> i'm larry barsetti. vice president to protect our benefits, but today will speak as secretary for police foundation. if you can guarantee that divestment can be done in such a way that it does not harm the fund. the number one duty is to protect retirements. so they're concerned about that. number few, they're horrified that san francisco politicians may be illegally influencing the actions you take. they demand that you holdfast to your oath to keep our fund safe. and they wanted me to tell you that they're watching. the organization is not afraid to take action. we have the resources to do that, to protect the indegree h-- integrity of the system. we'll take legal action. >> mr. martin -- >> i cede my time. we have no time. >> lisa bloom, kelsey hill, susan pena. >> i just want to say that as you all know frequent and catastrophic hurricanes, floods, droughts and fires have become our new formal. there is even a new phrase entered into the vocabulary called "climate breakdown." i'm having a hard time understanding why we cannot divest in the next year and take your gains out of the dirty market and put it into clean energy. a previous speaker said the importance of speaking about investing in your constituents' feature and i wanted to repeat that because it's important for all of you to think about. thank you. >> thank you, mrs. bloom. up next, kelsey hill followed by susan pena. >> i will yield my time. >> i yield mine. >> okay. great. mrs. hill yields. so does mrs. pena. up next, keith baraca, john wills -- >> mr. baraca had to leave. >> okay. we have john wills followed by mica bart-rodgers, jean peters. is john wills in the room? >> i withdraw. >> thank you. we have mica bart-rodgers, followed by jean peters. >> had to leave. >> okay. jean peters, followed by tony gonzalez. followed by leanne grossman. >> we're at a critical juncture and you hold the key for this movement to move eastward in divestment and the retirement funds of other cities across the board, so i really encourage you to think about the sacredness of water and the contaminates and the pollution that the industries have brought to our communities and many areas are sacred sites that you also would be protecting, so i encourage you to divest at the earliest time possible. >> would you identify yourself? >> gonzalez -- >> thank you, mr. gonzalez. i still have jean peters, followed by leanne grossman. >> the main argument used that we shouldn't divest fully is that we have influence by interesting our investments. i ask you as a board, did you ever influence in the time you've had, all of that money invested in oil, did you influence exxon, shell, mobile, any of these people -- yes, they think they're people. [laughter] and secondly, i want it say that my colleague here, mr. martin said, we think energy is bad. no. we believe in clean energy and that clean energy needs our investments to go there so we can have a future. thank you. >> thank you, mrs. grossman. jean peters, is jean peters in the room? seeing none. up next, sharon wilinski, followed by maria guillen, anita klein and lynn agerri. mrs. who? >> guillen. >> thank you. if i called your name, please step up. >> i'm sharon wilinski, retired, also sierra club member. i urge you to vote to divest as soon as possible. >> thank you. up next, we have anita klein followed by lynn agerri. followed by michael donaldson, followed by dr. bruce colville. >> i'm anita klein. i'm a retiree. and i urge you, please, divest now. we can't wait any longer. the world is waiting. >> michael donaldson. i decline. >> bruce colville? >> i decline. i encourage others to as well so we can get to the vote. >> ed kinchler. >> where's ed? >> melanie louis? >> i have worked for the city and health department the last 30 years, last 18 years in the emergency department. i want to ask all of you to do the right thing. we, who benefit from our pension, don't want our pension money invested in evil. fossil fuel is evil. it's hurting -- it's hurting what will be left of our planet for our grandchildren and i encourage all of you to vote to divest all of our money from fossil fuels. >> c. landry and carol brownson after that. >> i decline to speak. >> ruth magony. >> i worked in the library for the city for 40 years, worked hard for my retirement. over the last four years, i've been doing research on fossil fuels and investments and though nelson mandela said, well, everything that you gave up in the best things from south africa, somebody else picked up, it was still powerful enough a message to south africa and the world that there were disinvestments. my studies have shown that the nonfossil fuel investments have been going up steadily. the socially relevant investments that my husband and i had are always increasing. and it looks like fossil fuels are not a many-year investment, but maybe many few year investment. >> sorry, ma'am. you've reached your time. >> up next, we have anne joe fu, followed by nora roman, followed by jack fleck, followed by feliza phillips. >> i decline. >> who is that? thank you, mrs. fu. up next -- [inaudible] >> if you want to identify yourself by the happy title, i'm happy to oblige -- >> nora roman is gone. >> up next, jack fleck and felicia phillips. >> urge you to divest and put a timeline on it and do it quickly. >> thank you, mr. fleck. up next, we have feliza phillips. >> yes. i'm a retiree and i want to point out that the united nations and amnesty international came in during the dakota pipeline and pointed out human rights abuses and violation. stop giving our money to corporations like goldman sachs, wells fargo, chase and citibank because it's just blood money. stop giving them our money. thank you. >> thank you. up next, we have jeanette stromberg, maggie thomas, fred sanchez. thank you. thank you, mrs. stromberg. ms. i have a head cold. i can't hear much. maggie thomas. >> thank you for having us. i'm maggie thomas. i'm here on behalf of next gen ameri america. divestment is the right moral thing to do and financial decision. tom stire spent 30 years as an investment professional "the board is tying the fate of public employees to the fate of a dying, dirty fuel industry whose product will wreak destruction on our shores." to date, 130 public and private institutions have divested totalling $6 trillion. it's time for the san francisco pension fund to add its name to that list. >> thank you, maggie thomas. up next, fred sanchez. >> hello. i'm president of protect our benefits, coming before you with a difficult decision to make on divestment. everybody in this room is concerned about retirement and climate change and looking for alternative energy sources. you are award of your fiduciary relationship. rapid time frame is probably the difficult issue. we don't want to see the retirement fund negatively impacted. this board is the number one public pension fund in the nation you've gained the trust of the public. we respect the planet. i have grandchildren. 5 want it here for them. divest, but do it in a fashion and manner that will not impact this pension fund. i support you and wish you well in a difficult decision. >> thank you. >> thank you. up next, jane votberg, deborah sylvie, kay worker, ivan jimenez. thank you, jane. thank you. >> kate walker. i give up my time. divest now. >> thank you. we have ivan jimenez, cathy sabanon, lisa hoyas, barry hermanson. >> hello. i've app j -- ivan jimenez, attorney nonprofit. i circulated a memo to you. this memo supported by the environmental law association and law professors. as the memo explains, the board would act by voting to divest. they're in stranger of becoming stranded assets. divesting now could promote the risk of financial loss. thank you. >> thank you. cathy -- >> i will yield my time. divest now. >> thank you. up next, we have lisa hoyos, followed by barry hermanson. >> we're here together on behalf of the commission on the environment to share some key notes about our resolution. >> good afternoon, board members. eddie yan. our purview is advising the mayor and board of supervisors in environmental matters and set policy. we passed a resolution last night after much consideration that involved extensive independent review. we also had an extensive item by california energy commissioners as us on a global economy moving to 100% renewable energy. we hope you vote to divest and -- >> so we resolved that we are supporting as a whole commission the full and expeditious divestment of the retirement fund, beginning with the immediate divestment of assets that have had negative returned for five more years. we know you would take longer to responsibly divest, but we urge you to do that. if the world -- >> you've reached your time. >> we change the world. >> barry hermanson. kristin spalding, david page. >> i decline. >> barry hermanson, sierra club, san francisco green party, divest now. >> thank you very much. kristin spalding, david page. is kristin spalding in the room? >> no. >> okay. david page, i saw you earlier. are you still here? >> thank you. because of the time limitation, i was hoping that everybody who is in favor of divestment could stand silently. and i'm hoping that all the people that come after me will say divest now and keep it at that. and it will allow the commissioners to have time to debate, deliberate and vote. thank you. >> thank you, mr. page. up next, norm degelman. >> i decline. >> mr. holtzman, are you still nearby? followed by kitty costello. teresa mcgovern. >> thank you. thank you for coming out. i'm wearing a t-shirt that said, "we are greater than fossil fuels." why are we still here? we voted to move to direct engagement in march, 2015, which was almost three years ago, so there's really no reason to have the same conversation today that we had in 2014 and '15. the amount of blood, sweat and tears, since my first board meeting is truly insane. putting money into s&p 500 that day would have made you hundred of millions of dollars on top of the money that you wouldn't have lost. we're talking about losing hundreds of millions. the city and county has sued the big five oil companies. new york city and new york state funds are further along than -- >> time. thank you, mr. holtzman. >> fair enough. >> up next, kitty costello, followed by teresa mcgovern, followed by glenn fieldman. is kitty costello in the room? tier teresa mcgovern? glenn fieldman? >> i waive my right to speak. >> what is your name? >> glenn fieldman. >> is terry wallace present? please come up. followed by catherine howard. followed by linda weiner. followed by wayne roth. >> thank you. i have a dog in this fight. i'm a retiree from san franci o francisco. i'm against divestment. it is not all about energy and about carbon. everything we have in this room that isn't alive comes from petroleum, including the carpets, stand, ceiling, everything comes from petroleum. it's called plastic. so it isn't all about -- and i think that some of our investments come from the oil companies, am i correct? okay. that's my dog in the fight. it ain't going to go away. thank you. >> up next, catherine howard, followed by linda weiner, wayne roth. thank you very much. is linda weiner in the room? >> i represent the executive committee of san francisco sierra club. i want to say that divestment is not a political statement. it's survival and political action we have to break the cycle of devastating impacts of climate change. the money we'll pay for a seawall is exhorbitant. fossil fuels also hurts the environment especially in areas. we need to protect and defend public pensions by making them more secure without fossil fuels and protect and defend our city and residents from environmental damage. thank you. >> thank you very much. up next, we have wayne roth, followed by mary jean robertson. followed by eddie ahn. >> hi. i'm wayne roth. i'm urging you to divest and for

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