impact of fossil fuel usage. second, the committee is encourages by the six-point recommendation for taking action on this topic, but would like to request more information regarding specific timelines for each of the action items lefted in the staff plan. the committee would like to communicate their grave concern regarding the possibility of a mass divestment of fossil fuels within a short time frame. the committee would advocate that the board undertake no such rash action until completing a complete analysis of the financial impact the effect it would have on pension performance and costs. we appreciate and understand the desire to divest from fossil fuels from different entities, but we must understand the implications of such a decision before it's made. >> sorry. time. >> thank you very much. >> again, everyone has 1 minute. we're going to announce loudly when you are at your 1-minute mark. understand the constraints we have. sara greenwald, are you present? seeing she's not here. i will set her speaker card aside. phil casky, followed by margaret pierce. >> phil casky, retired from the water department. i think -- i want to say briefly the water department is an incredibly wonderful system. it's one of the most protected systems in the world. and we didn't get that way by being unprotective of the environment. so burning fossil fuels is not protective of the environment. and i would like to keep the water system the way it is and i think that san francisco can be a leader in many, many ways and by divesting is one way to do it. thank you. >> thank you. up next, margaret pierce. >> thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak. everyone wearing a purple sticker is in favor of divestment. this is the moral imperative. but i'm afraid what we're going to do is have so many people talk that you will have it leave and we won't be able to vote. i would like to know how many of those of us wearing purple stickers that would like to see you vote now rather than listen to more talk? >> president, can we have a movement to speak with the crowd about this? >> we're going to abide by 1 minute for each person. if you want to pull people outside, that's fine. we need to proceed. >> i think he wants to audit. >> when it's your turn to speak, you can audit everyone in the room. >> thank you, mrs. pierce. up next, sean connelly, elizabeth miles, judy beck, curtis wu. elizabeth miles, are you in the room? followed by judy beck? followed by curtis wu. >> judy beck is giving up her turn. >> i will give up my turn. >> she's not here. >> if you don't want to speak, stand up from your seat and say you no longer want to address the commission. >> i will use my minute to audit the crowd, if you don't mind. how many people would like for them to vote now? how many? >> yeah. just vote now. >> i give up my time. >> we are bound by law to call your name. if you don't want to speak, stand up and say you don't want to speak. >> i will speak, but very quickly. i want to mention that we voted in favor of a resolution to seek divestment. and in march, the chief investment officer divested $200 million. he did it because of an economic reason as well as for an environmental and e.s.g. reason. and i also want to mention where engagement has gotten us. i believe goldman sachs invested $244 million in energy transfer partners as recently as 2016. one of the members -- >> time. thank you. up next, we have judy beck followed by curtis wu. >> i give up my turn. >> thank you. up next, curtis wu, followed by cindy shembone. >> i will give up my turn. >> i will give up my time. >> thank you very much. ian monroe, followed by eileen fits faulkner. and mishicant fioli. >> ian monroe. i teach classes on climate change at stanford and among the things that we take out are fossil fuel companies. we have about $130 million in assets. our flagship e.t.f. has been traded for two years. i support divestment, with a divestment strategy. it can be a better financial performing strategy in alignment of your feiduciary -- >> time. thank you. up next, eileen fits faulkner, mishi -- >> we need a rapid response to the pressures of the world. your vote today can begin to change the trajectory. with every city that divests in fossil fuel, our future becomes brighter. as you look at your new investments, look toward a path that's better for all the people. yes, you can be in energy, but in clean energy. you hold a lot of power in your hands and it's a choice to get us away from a catastrophic future. what good is retirement pension if your world is dead. we're on the brink of change. be the change of good. invest in your constituents' future that creates a life for them. this is a city and the future -- this is for this city and the future generations of our planet. thank you. >> thank you. up next, mishi she -- >> i don't need my turn. >> larry barsetti, trevor martin, lisa bloom. >> i'm larry barsetti. vice president to protect our benefits, but today will speak as secretary for police foundation. if you can guarantee that divestment can be done in such a way that it does not harm the fund. the number one duty is to protect retirements. so they're concerned about that. number few, they're horrified that san francisco politicians may be illegally influencing the actions you take. they demand that you holdfast to your oath to keep our fund safe. and they wanted me to tell you that they're watching. the organization is not afraid to take action. we have the resources to do that, to protect the indegree h-- integrity of the system. we'll take legal action. >> mr. martin -- >> i cede my time. we have no time. >> lisa bloom, kelsey hill, susan pena. >> i just want to say that as you all know frequent and catastrophic hurricanes, floods, droughts and fires have become our new formal. there is even a new phrase entered into the vocabulary called "climate breakdown." i'm having a hard time understanding why we cannot divest in the next year and take your gains out of the dirty market and put it into clean energy. a previous speaker said the importance of speaking about investing in your constituents' feature and i wanted to repeat that because it's important for all of you to think about. thank you. >> thank you, mrs. bloom. up next, kelsey hill followed by susan pena. >> i will yield my time. >> i yield mine. >> okay. great. mrs. hill yields. so does mrs. pena. up next, keith baraca, john wills -- >> mr. baraca had to leave. >> okay. we have john wills followed by mica bart-rodgers, jean peters. is john wills in the room? >> i withdraw. >> thank you. we have mica bart-rodgers, followed by jean peters. >> had to leave. >> okay. jean peters, followed by tony gonzalez. followed by leanne grossman. >> we're at a critical juncture and you hold the key for this movement to move eastward in divestment and the retirement funds of other cities across the board, so i really encourage you to think about the sacredness of water and the contaminates and the pollution that the industries have brought to our communities and many areas are sacred sites that you also would be protecting, so i encourage you to divest at the earliest time possible. >> would you identify yourself? >> gonzalez -- >> thank you, mr. gonzalez. i still have jean peters, followed by leanne grossman. >> the main argument used that we shouldn't divest fully is that we have influence by interesting our investments. i ask you as a board, did you ever influence in the time you've had, all of that money invested in oil, did you influence exxon, shell, mobile, any of these people -- yes, they think they're people. [laughter] and secondly, i want it say that my colleague here, mr. martin said, we think energy is bad. no. we believe in clean energy and that clean energy needs our investments to go there so we can have a future. thank you. >> thank you, mrs. grossman. jean peters, is jean peters in the room? seeing none. up next, sharon wilinski, followed by maria guillen, anita klein and lynn agerri. mrs. who? >> guillen. >> thank you. if i called your name, please step up. >> i'm sharon wilinski, retired, also sierra club member. i urge you to vote to divest as soon as possible. >> thank you. up next, we have anita klein followed by lynn agerri. followed by michael donaldson, followed by dr. bruce colville. >> i'm anita klein. i'm a retiree. and i urge you, please, divest now. we can't wait any longer. the world is waiting. >> michael donaldson. i decline. >> bruce colville? >> i decline. i encourage others to as well so we can get to the vote. >> ed kinchler. >> where's ed? >> melanie louis? >> i have worked for the city and health department the last 30 years, last 18 years in the emergency department. i want to ask all of you to do the right thing. we, who benefit from our pension, don't want our pension money invested in evil. fossil fuel is evil. it's hurting -- it's hurting what will be left of our planet for our grandchildren and i encourage all of you to vote to divest all of our money from fossil fuels. >> c. landry and carol brownson after that. >> i decline to speak. >> ruth magony. >> i worked in the library for the city for 40 years, worked hard for my retirement. over the last four years, i've been doing research on fossil fuels and investments and though nelson mandela said, well, everything that you gave up in the best things from south africa, somebody else picked up, it was still powerful enough a message to south africa and the world that there were disinvestments. my studies have shown that the nonfossil fuel investments have been going up steadily. the socially relevant investments that my husband and i had are always increasing. and it looks like fossil fuels are not a many-year investment, but maybe many few year investment. >> sorry, ma'am. you've reached your time. >> up next, we have anne joe fu, followed by nora roman, followed by jack fleck, followed by feliza phillips. >> i decline. >> who is that? thank you, mrs. fu. up next -- [inaudible] >> if you want to identify yourself by the happy title, i'm happy to oblige -- >> nora roman is gone. >> up next, jack fleck and felicia phillips. >> urge you to divest and put a timeline on it and do it quickly. >> thank you, mr. fleck. up next, we have feliza phillips. >> yes. i'm a retiree and i want to point out that the united nations and amnesty international came in during the dakota pipeline and pointed out human rights abuses and violation. stop giving our money to corporations like goldman sachs, wells fargo, chase and citibank because it's just blood money. stop giving them our money. thank you. >> thank you. up next, we have jeanette stromberg, maggie thomas, fred sanchez. thank you. thank you, mrs. stromberg. ms. i have a head cold. i can't hear much. maggie thomas. >> thank you for having us. i'm maggie thomas. i'm here on behalf of next gen ameri america. divestment is the right moral thing to do and financial decision. tom stire spent 30 years as an investment professional "the board is tying the fate of public employees to the fate of a dying, dirty fuel industry whose product will wreak destruction on our shores." to date, 130 public and private institutions have divested totalling $6 trillion. it's time for the san francisco pension fund to add its name to that list. >> thank you, maggie thomas. up next, fred sanchez. >> hello. i'm president of protect our benefits, coming before you with a difficult decision to make on divestment. everybody in this room is concerned about retirement and climate change and looking for alternative energy sources. you are award of your fiduciary relationship. rapid time frame is probably the difficult issue. we don't want to see the retirement fund negatively impacted. this board is the number one public pension fund in the nation you've gained the trust of the public. we respect the planet. i have grandchildren. 5 want it here for them. divest, but do it in a fashion and manner that will not impact this pension fund. i support you and wish you well in a difficult decision. >> thank you. >> thank you. up next, jane votberg, deborah sylvie, kay worker, ivan jimenez. thank you, jane. thank you. >> kate walker. i give up my time. divest now. >> thank you. we have ivan jimenez, cathy sabanon, lisa hoyas, barry hermanson. >> hello. i've app j -- ivan jimenez, attorney nonprofit. i circulated a memo to you. this memo supported by the environmental law association and law professors. as the memo explains, the board would act by voting to divest. they're in stranger of becoming stranded assets. divesting now could promote the risk of financial loss. thank you. >> thank you. cathy -- >> i will yield my time. divest now. >> thank you. up next, we have lisa hoyos, followed by barry hermanson. >> we're here together on behalf of the commission on the environment to share some key notes about our resolution. >> good afternoon, board members. eddie yan. our purview is advising the mayor and board of supervisors in environmental matters and set policy. we passed a resolution last night after much consideration that involved extensive independent review. we also had an extensive item by california energy commissioners as us on a global economy moving to 100% renewable energy. we hope you vote to divest and -- >> so we resolved that we are supporting as a whole commission the full and expeditious divestment of the retirement fund, beginning with the immediate divestment of assets that have had negative returned for five more years. we know you would take longer to responsibly divest, but we urge you to do that. if the world -- >> you've reached your time. >> we change the world. >> barry hermanson. kristin spalding, david page. >> i decline. >> barry hermanson, sierra club, san francisco green party, divest now. >> thank you very much. kristin spalding, david page. is kristin spalding in the room? >> no. >> okay. david page, i saw you earlier. are you still here? >> thank you. because of the time limitation, i was hoping that everybody who is in favor of divestment could stand silently. and i'm hoping that all the people that come after me will say divest now and keep it at that. and it will allow the commissioners to have time to debate, deliberate and vote. thank you. >> thank you, mr. page. up next, norm degelman. >> i decline. >> mr. holtzman, are you still nearby? followed by kitty costello. teresa mcgovern. >> thank you. thank you for coming out. i'm wearing a t-shirt that said, "we are greater than fossil fuels." why are we still here? we voted to move to direct engagement in march, 2015, which was almost three years ago, so there's really no reason to have the same conversation today that we had in 2014 and '15. the amount of blood, sweat and tears, since my first board meeting is truly insane. putting money into s&p 500 that day would have made you hundred of millions of dollars on top of the money that you wouldn't have lost. we're talking about losing hundreds of millions. the city and county has sued the big five oil companies. new york city and new york state funds are further along than -- >> time. thank you, mr. holtzman. >> fair enough. >> up next, kitty costello, followed by teresa mcgovern, followed by glenn fieldman. is kitty costello in the room? tier teresa mcgovern? glenn fieldman? >> i waive my right to speak. >> what is your name? >> glenn fieldman. >> is terry wallace present? please come up. followed by catherine howard. followed by linda weiner. followed by wayne roth. >> thank you. i have a dog in this fight. i'm a retiree from san franci o francisco. i'm against divestment. it is not all about energy and about carbon. everything we have in this room that isn't alive comes from petroleum, including the carpets, stand, ceiling, everything comes from petroleum. it's called plastic. so it isn't all about -- and i think that some of our investments come from the oil companies, am i correct? okay. that's my dog in the fight. it ain't going to go away. thank you. >> up next, catherine howard, followed by linda weiner, wayne roth. thank you very much. is linda weiner in the room? >> i represent the executive committee of san francisco sierra club. i want to say that divestment is not a political statement. it's survival and political action we have to break the cycle of devastating impacts of climate change. the money we'll pay for a seawall is exhorbitant. fossil fuels also hurts the environment especially in areas. we need to protect and defend public pensions by making them more secure without fossil fuels and protect and defend our city and residents from environmental damage. thank you. >> thank you very much. up next, we have wayne roth, followed by mary jean robertson. followed by eddie ahn. >> hi. i'm wayne roth. i'm urging you to divest and for this reason -- if we don't kill fossil fuels, they will kill us. we have very little time before we pass over climate system tipping points that will make it impossible for all of our efforts to try to stop climate change. if you don't get out of fossil fuels and use clean energy, we're leaving a world uninhab uninhabitable for our children and grandchildren for tens of thousands of years. let's make the right move, moral move, the move that divests from fossil fuels now. thank you. >> thank you very much. up next, we have mary jean -- >> mary jean -- [inaudible] >> thank you very much. up next, eddie ahn, followed by john stinson, followed by jonathan coker, followed by betty holiday. thank you very much. up next, we have john stinson, followed by jonathan coker. >> i'm john stinson. i'm a 43-year member of the pension fund. i came 30 minutes early to this meeting and you started 30 minutes late. i don't think you've ever started a meeting on time. will you meet start meetings on time. and the biggest threat to humankind is not fossil fuel or climate change. the biggest threat is when you have two crazy people that could start a nuclear war. and we have that situation today, one in north korea and one in the white house, unfortunately. if you divest in fossil fuel investments, you will need to divest from hedge funds of the what do you think that they would say if you cannot invest in tobacco or gun companies? please divest from both. >> up next, jonathan coker, followed by betty holiday, followed by david paul. >> i divest. thank you. >> betty holiday -- [inaudible] >> ms. holiday, if you are going to speak, come to the microphone or yield your time. >> remember the cost of the fossil fuel industry. >> david paul, herbert weiner, john monthread. what is your name? [inaudible] >> i want to divest from fossil fuels, but i want it to be done on a thorough, surgical, precise divestment. i want the least profitable to go and then the rest monitored closely. you are walking a tightrope between the fund yielding a significant return and also acting responsibly. i want to live long enough to see my returns and i'm sure everyone in the room does. so these are my concerns. i think we have to divest and do it the way new york is doing it. they're doing it on a long-term timeline and they're not wrecking their pension funds. >> time. john monfred. >> we have 20 minutes left before -- [inaudib [inaudible] >> thank you. we have jean walsh, followed by sally buckman, it looks like. bookman. jean walsh, are you in the room? okay. we still have several speaker cards. anyone who -- >> i worked at san francisco hospital and retiree. divest now. >> there are some people not in the room who are next door. you will all have an opportunity to address the commission. if you have not submitted a speaker card, when i'm done calling on everyone, you will have a chance to come up. please stand by. >> ms. morales? thank you. >> divest. >> the last speaker card that i have is for tristan bell. if there's anyone else that would like to address the commission after mrs. bell, you have the opportunity to come up. once we close public comment, you will no longer have the ability to address the commission and it's very possible that a vote may not happen before commissioner cohen leaves at 4:00. so just keep that in mind if you yield, if you yield your opportunity to speak to the board. ms. bell, are you present? tristan bell? okay. i don't have any other speaker cards. is there anyone else that would like to address the commission? >> good afternoon. you have heard from some of-colleagu of-colleagues. 5 want to make a couple of points. we're divided in this. you have the responsibility to maintain our funds, grow our funds. you know that we as retirees depend on our pension. for a number of retirees, this is the only source of income. and when we get the cost of living increases and supplemental colas, it's directly related to the returns on this fund and we expect that would go on for some time. we would like to see that. otherwise we're looking at what we live on that for a lot of us is not very much and that would sustain us for the next 20 or 30 years, we hope. it's your responsibility to do the right thing. we recognize climate change and the problems, but support your right as if ied -- fiduciaries. >> this is your last opportunity to address the commission. i will give a moment in case someone is next door and working their way over. please identify yourself for the record. >> i'm christine bell. i'm a native of san francisco. and in the interest of time and to help facilitate getting a vote done today, i just want to say, i'm for divestment and i'm going to concede my time. >> thank you very much. anyone else present that would like to address the commission? once we have closed public comment, you will no longer have the ability to speak. mr. secretary, will you announce outside that we're going to close public comment? thank you. i hear a lot of nos. that was vote. not no. okay. we're going to go ahead and close public comment. as a board, this is our chance to ask questions and open it up to the board. >> would i like to make a motion unless people want to continue to spoke -- >> make the motion. and then we can have discussion. >> would i like to accept staff's recommendation and also add -- i'd like to identify the riskiest, dirtiest fossil fuel assets, and begin prudently, phased divestment as soon as possible, replacing them with better performing, clean assets. staff should report back with the first set of opportunities by july 1. >> of this year? >> of this year. that's my motion. >> there's a motion. >> i second it. >> i would like to add to that motion. i ask that the divestment plan report give a concrete understanding of how they're defining "riskiest and dirtiest." including benchmarks, financial returns and targets. i would also like to see the financial returns and emission targets. i also want to establish a watch list. a watch list, the way we have our managers under review list, and i want to establish concrete goals for any company with engagement and i want timelines with the set benchmarks. so these are simple, humble requests, adding to the motion that has been made and i hope that colleagues will be able to support that. >> procedurally -- >> good additions. >> thank you. >> i want to clear up one or two things about the effect of all of this. mr. martin, on page 7 of this 450-page report, it talks about a 22-basis-point reduction, which is one of the tasks that you must do if we decide to accept that. that is what is in the report, correct? >> expected rate of return. >> would it in any way lower the allowances paid to the current retirees to include their basic cola? >> basic allowance and basic cola? >> we must pay that. >> so that reduction does not affect retirees. >> does not affect the basic cola for the retirees. >> in this plan you have proposed, was to shift $1 billion to fossil-free -- >> carbon-constrained. >> there were several indexes that were fossil-free, carbon-select and combinations of all. if we were to do that, would it immediately shift, sell, $50 million in securities? >> we would do this prudently. >> would it be $50 billion less securities in fossil fuels? >> $50 million? >> million. i'm going off of mr. martin's 5.4% number for how many securities are in this -- >> yes. the answer to that, i believe, is actually probably closer to $70 million. i'm going off the index weight of 7%. actually, no. it wouldn't be quite that much. >> just give me a number. >> i can't. here's why -- >> i will guess $50 million. >> it will be around -- >> thank you. i'm sorry i didn't give you more time to come up with a number. series of numbers presented to us, in other reports, other index managers in the area, i forget the name, but it was forwarded to all of us. and the question is, how it might affect assumed rate of return to determine how much the active employees will contribute, how much the city must contribute. there's an indirect effect on their pay. retirees are insulated from that outcome. not totally, but 99.99%. what it shows is that there is no significant difference, but look at adjusted-rate of return. this is the test about the worst significance. divested from tobacco, we did. city made up most of that. now some employees are sharing that cost. when you are going to divest and rule out somewhere between 4% to 7% of the total universe of options, that's significant. it's not something we're trying to avoid, but we have some rates of return based on a series of investment plans, but if we have to lower that rate of return, for us to tell the city, you must contribute, employees, you must contribute, that's a responsibility we cannot take lightly. these are the factors we're trying to take into account so that retirees can count on those checks coming and to help to try to make this a safer, lovely place to live. that's the balancing act that i'm sitting through -- we've had other meetings on this subject that were public meetings. maybe you will come to the next one. that's why i think the plan with the additions made, i can support. >> the first staff recommendation should not affect the rate of return. we should keep moving. >> so my comment to that is i believe, and staff can remind us, that tobacco cost $62 million. >> cost us. >> cost us. >> over 19 years. >> but it's $62 million. it's 10 times larger, i understand that, but that's why supervisor i added the prudently. as long as you can do this prudently and not affect the system in the way that would require the additional sums of money, i think we can do this. our focus is the riskiest, dirtiest fossil fuels, divesting prude prudently. and i think by adding in the -- what supervisor cohen described in a revised motion that will make -- lays a little more teeth and facts to it, so we have some figures to use later on. i support that. >> and a report will come back to us on july -- >> yes. >> i want to be sure that's in that. >> i would like to make a motion to -- >> point of order. theres a motion on the floor. >> so we have a revised motion to include the in additions to my motion. >> are they amendments? >> yes. >> then they can be done. >> can we call for a vote? >> i have some questions. i mean, i'm sure other people on the board have some questions. anyone? no questions? >> i will ask a couple of questions first of all, what is the specific motion now so we thoroughly understand it. >> can we take it in two parts or is it all or nudothing? >> we can take it in two parts. >> we'll call for a vote and then you can make a motion? >> yes. >> are there any other questions from the board or comments? i have a couple. how much did tobacco divestment cost calpers? >> $3.7 billion. >> your recommendation on the floor, the 6 points we talked about, do you think that will meaningfully affect the return of the system if it's done prudently? >> no. i think it can improve. >> okay. thank you. >> prudently. >> i would call the added language a seventh point. i want to be very clear here. there's some overlap with your language and number six. if you were to just look at the language of hers as stand-alone, if done prudently, would it affect the return -- >> no. >> all right. so on the floor, we have staff's six-point recommendation as laid out on page 2 of staff's memo. correct? >> with a july 30 timeline? >> hold on. we have staff's six points. i want to be very clear for the record what we're doing here today. and the seventh point is the verbing a that was read into the record. is every single board member clear on the language? does anybody have any questions? >> but it's's july 30 -- >> july 31 report back to the board with options for implementing -- >> want me to repeat it? >> so we have a realtime line, correct? >> correct. >> i want to make a comment before i call for the vote. i think that philosophically, we all agree with everyonen the room. we want to do the right thing for the earth, the environment. we're all against anything that will harm the environment. as fiduciaries, we walk a tight line for doing what's right for the system, minimizing contributions from the city, minimizing what employees have to pay every paycheck. if we get this wrong, it will result in a pay cut for employees. you had your chance to speak. be respectful of the process. if we get this wrong, it will cost employees money. if we get this money, it will cost retirees in the form of supplemental colas. as we proceed, we have to be very careful that everything we're doing does not affect returns -- hold on. please. but still trying to fulfill the spirit of the motion. so we're walking a tightrope here. if the motion from the city was divest now, we'll pick up the tab no problem. i support that, as long as you don't affect retirees or active employees. but that's not what we're facing. you have to be patient with us. we want to do what you want to do, but we're trying to balance this and it's not one or the other. would anyone else like to make comments before i call for the vote? >> no. sorry. sit down. >> let's call the vote. i think we're clear on what the motion is. everyone on the board is clear. it's been read into the record. mr. secretary, roll call vote, please? [roll call] >> motion passes. >> motion passes. >> mr. chair, i would like to make a motion for the next item. to reiterate, i'm making a motion and i'm asking the divestment plan report to give a concrete understanding of how they're defining riskiest and dirtiest, including benchmarks, expected financial returns and emission targets. i want to establish a watch list, much like how we have with managers under review and establish concrete goals for any company under level 2 engagement and timeline for termination for any company not meeting set benchmarks. again, this is complementary to the motion we just took. >> i'll second. >> thank you. >> there's a motion. there's a second. among the board, any discussion or questions or points of clarification? >> i have a question. mr. coker, is that fulfillable? >> in spirit, i can agree to everything that i just heard. i have three concerns. two of which, i know you are going to agree to. it needs to be a research-oriented, process-driven discovery. the other is resources. that's a big mandate. i agree with it in spirit, but it's a big mandate. we have tight resources right now. given the scope of a $24.5 billion pension plan. i know it can be done in time, everything that i just heard. the timeline, i have a concern about. >> how many people are at calpers working on these issues? >> i don't know that i know the answer to that. >> i don't know the answer offhand. above 10. in thought it was 20, but it's a wild -- >> between 10 and 20. >> i thought they said it was 20. >> can i ask this as maker of the motion -- can we ask staff -- i agree with everything you said. if we're going to do this, all of those things have to be done. i echo the concern in terms of staff resources. how much time have you spent on putting together this presentation in the last several months? >> since july, comfortably 800 hours. >> a lot of time. part of the motion was to hire an employee to do this. >> that would be helpful and supportive of the additional resources, but that process is -- >> could we revise it to say something pertaining to you hiring that employee because you are obviously not going to have the resources until you hire that employee. >> yes. could i make a suggestion? agree in spirit with everything. we have some work to do in terms of a timeline, hiring resources. what i would suggest is that we come back and give you a written report on status, okay? and if we can see timelines and expectations at that time, we will guide you accordingly. but at least we'll give you a written report in july on status. >> and we can bring forward the first point, which is definitions of how we're identifying and evaluating and getting the board support of how we're evaluatings ra riskiest a dirtiest. but going through 200 companies of who should be on the watch list, that takes more research. and level two benchmarks and timelines, we're getting ready to go into a proxy season. so that will be driven by that. i think we can meet part of -- >> okay. two follow-ups. when is the director of -- >> we haven't begun to recruit for that. >> okay. just a simple, short answer. and what -- is this not something that our consultants can help with? >> certainly, but the purview of the general consultants to help us with this. >> so i don't understand why we can't bring them or engage with them on this research. >> can we for procedures say that they come back by july with a plan on how they're going to accomplish each of these things so that both the first motion and yours are on the same timeline and we're fought moving in different directions at different times? >> i don't know if we can deliver all three of your points we'll bring you what we can by july. >> let's do this, i want certainly my first point asap, all right. that's the definition. we need to know how people are defining riskyest and it's an arbitrary definition and i want bench marks and clarity so we work if the same session. you would agree we can get that done quickly? i think we can -- what i'm hearing is i think the establishment of the watch list. that also can get done quickly? and the establish of the concrete goals is what you need a little bit more time in? >> i can't say that the watch list is established quickly, because we have to determine the criteria and the definitions to be approved by the board as far as how we are evaluating who we put on a watch list. i think -- i mean, we certainly if we can bring that by july, we will be prepared to bring it. if we aren't prepared to bring it it might be pushed for another three months. >> can i speak to this a little bit since i've been working with staff trying to get it done. >> yes, of course you can. i feel like this is a set up. >> what's a set up? >> you take one motion and you say yes and then

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