Do so on stage with tens of millions of people watching the first time. Vice president harris and donald trump will be faceto face for the first time for a presidential debate in philadelphia. Of course, they would have met had trump attended joe biden's in operation instead of inciting an insurrection. Now, while the stakes couldn't be any higher, the two campaigns are taking very different approaches to getting ready. Vice president harris is staying at a hotel in pittsburgh, huddling with advisers, going through mock debates, preparing for the debate like a prosecutor with interviews, documents, and all kinds of other preparations. Yesterday, she visited a local business and met with voters, antennae, harris and the second settlement visited the u. S. Air force base at pittsburgh international airport, giving a thumbs up to reporters who asked if she was ready for tuesday's debate. Now, trump on the other hand is publicly dismissing the very idea of debate prep. Instead, what we have seen from him are rambling, dishonest, unhinged 45 minute press conferences at trump tower on friday, take a listen. We have a full rigged election system, nobody has ever seen anything like what is happening. I am running for president and this is not the kind of publicity you like. I feel sad that i have to come up here and explain it, i have all this legal talent, but legal talent cannot overcome rigged judges. They can't overcome a 4% republican area, and i'm disappointed in my legal talent, i will be honest with you. I am going into very hostile territory shortly, on a debate with abc, george and that group. This is the weaponization of justice at a level that nobody has ever seen in this country before, we have never seen it. No, as the washington post reports, trump's team has been begging him for the opposite of that performance that you just saw a glimpse of the they want him to focus on issues, instead of just going through the motions before getting back to his usual whining about personal grievances, where he incoherently plays the victim over and over again. While his base and they love it, those antics were better suited for when trump was up by several points on joe biden after their debate. It is not the right strategy for someone locked in a dead heat as today's new york times sienna paul reminded us. While other polls show harris slightly ahead of trump, this one is unchanged from july, immediately after joe biden's exit. A poll of battleground states, michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania also shows a highly competitive race and all three states with all these numbers within the margin of error. One big question for tuesday, which candidate will do a better job of convincing voters they are the change candidate? today's new york times poll shows that while 60% of likely voters are looking for a major change from only 25% think that harris is likely to bring about that change, compared to 53% who think trump will. And speaking of change, the harris campaign announced this morning that harris and tim walz will kick off a tour of battleground states on thursday, charting what they call a new way forward. The campaign will also drop a nationwide ad campaign, touting that very same message. Kicking us off tonight, jennifer moran, republican party chair and host of the is it just me or have we all lost our minds podcast, jennifer rubin, msnbc political analyst and an opinion writer at the washington post. It is great to have both of you with us. Jennifer moran, i will start with you. Clearly, the harris campaign has been leaning into this change messaging, it is certainly one that is resonating with voters. As we just saw, affirmed by the new york times vienna college bowl, showing that voters do actually want change, what can she do on tuesday to solidify that label? well, i think she wants to continue with the messaging that she has been building her campaign on ever since she became the nominee, and that is a much more optimistic, positive, forwardlooking message. You know, we have lost track of how many times just in the last week that donald trump has denigrated the country, has gone on some sort of social media rant about negative, awful, terrible things, everything is a cheat, everything is going to be rigged. Our country is becoming a third world nation. His view of the country has been so so dark and so gloomy for so long, i really believe that one of her greatest strengths is that optimism. And she is talking about policy points in a way that is very forwardlooking, whether it is about the $50,000 tax credit for new businesses, for example. She is talking about issues that really critical suburban women care about. You know, the cost of childcare and education and the cost of raising a child. She is talking about health issues, healthcare issues for women. But she is doing all of it in this new way forward optimism and energy that donald trump doesn't have. I think if she can manifest that on a debate stage, i think she will be very successful. So, to that point, jennifer rubin, i mean, the vice president is a less known than trump, trump has been around on the scene, at least in the cultural sense, as well as in the political sense, for almost two decades now. She has way more upside, way more room to grow. This will likely be the largest audience that both her and trump will get to speak to before the election, if any of the past debates and their ratings or audience numbers are an indication. What is the most important message for her to convey to this large audience that may both include democrats, republicans, and independents, not just at the dnc for example, where people who are watching it are probably inclined to watch the dnc because they support it or they are behind it? i think she wants to say that she represents a broad coalition that runs from liz cheney to bernie sanders. Both of whom have endorsed her. And that if you believe in democracy, if you believe in a government that does positive rings for the middle class, for the working class, if you believe america is a force for good in the world, then you should be with her. So, i think there are certainly policy positions she wants to underscore. She is very much the prochoice candidate. He brags about states not being able to ban abortion. She definitely wants to paint him as a friend of fat cats, he wants to reup his own tax cuts and go even further. She is looking to get middle class tax cuts. And as jennifer said, to give support to middleclass, whether it is the child tax credit, whether it is a $25,000 credit for new homebuyers, so, there is a lot of contrast. But i think most of all, she wants to present herself as the calm, cool, adult in the world. We don't have to go back not only to the bad policies, not only to covid, but to the insanity, to the insults, to the degradation of our fellow americans and the military. So, i think her appearing as the adults, as the calm one, not getting baited into any kind of backandforth with trump, will be to her advantage. And i think simply giving him the back of the hand when he tries some of these tactics should be very effective. Yeah, and she has demonstrated she can certainly do that, both in hearings and in previous vice presidential debates, when she told mike pence, who repeatedly tried to interrupt her, that she was talking to jennifer moran, trump has been more incoherent, certainly more whiny, and is lacking in discipline as usual. This is probably why his campaign thought to have his microphone turned off while harris is speaking. It is trump's recent ramblings something that harris can use to prevent it? just let trump be trump and let him repel voters like he did in the 2020 debate with biden? well, that is definitely, i am sure, going to be part of her strategy. You know, he has always been a ranter, a rambler, but his ramblings have changed significantly in character over the last couple of years, and these last couple months especially. He is falling apart in the face of the harriswalz campaign. And i think we are probably talking about the insolence of a couple of different things. But we have all seen this in our own lives, with different people that we have known who are 78 or 80 years old and sometimes 88 or nine years old, he does seem to be struggling with coherency, with fluidity, with comprehension of what the question and the topic at hand really is. And i think that, you know, the other piece of this is that he is truly a misogynist. And what we know about misogynists is that they live on tales and lies and creation of stories and facts, and when you reach the point that he seems to be at mentally, and you can't track that anymore and you can't keep track of those things, we really see a deterioration in his ability to communicate. I think that is going to work very much in favor, obviously, of kamala harris. Jen rubin, one area where trump has been trying to moderate his message, and quite frankly it not succeeding, is on reproductive rights. He knows it is a losing issue for him, he keeps flipflopping on it. But honestly, joe biden famously fumbled an abortion question during their june debate, couldn't even take the fight to trump during that debate. How do you think the abortion issue will be handled by both candidates, because i'm sure harris will be better than biden at prosecuting the case of transposition on reversing reproductive rights in this country. I think she uses the same approach she did in her speech at the convention, they are out of their minds if they think women are going to allow the government to track their periods, if we are going to allow the government to regulate orban ivf. If they are going to force teenagers to give birth. And i think she just has to say that emphatically, and when either she or he bring up the topic, then she simply has to say he will say anything to get elected. He even now wants to be the champion of abortion rights, but his supporters are supporting him because he repealed roe v. Wade, because the appointed justices who roll these things back, and i think her prosecutorial skills, if the moderators don't bring it up, and it would be journalistic malpractice if they don't, she has got to bring up the fact he is threatening to imprison his enemies, he is threatening a bloody roundup of 11 to 12 million people. The jennifer moran, jennifer rubin, thank you to the both of you are starting us off tonight, greatly appreciated as always. Next up, or threats from trump and his base to limit people's life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, stay with us. [ music ] [ music ] cleans better, and doesn't leave behind irritating residues. And it's gentle on her skin. Tide free and gentle liquid is epa safer choice certified. It's gotta be tide. When i was diagnosed with hiv, i didn't know who i would be. But here i am. . . Being me. Keep being you. . . And ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed hiv treatment, biktarvy. 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No matter where life takes you, biktarvy can go with you. Talk to your healthcare provider today. On day 1, i will revoke joe biden's rule policies on so called gender affirming care. My department of education will inform states and school districts that if any teacher or school officials suggest to a child that they could be tracked in the wrong body, they will be faced with severe consequences, including potential civil rights violations for discrimination. Can you imagine you are a parent and your son leaves the house and you say, jimmy, i love you so much, go have a good day in school, and your son comes back with a brutal operation. That was donald trump in a campaign video posted last year, and again last night in wisconsin, spewing antitrans rhetoric that is just as ridiculous as this is the dangerous. And like most things related to trump, there is a project 2025 connection. Over 900 page document published by the heritage foundation mentions lgbtq issues dozens of times. In my with trump's remarks that we just played for you, the blueprint for the next republican president calls for a restrictive view of gender and racial identities. It also mentions plans to rollback regulations that protect americans from discrimination at work. And it would resend a biden error revision to title nine that strengthens protections for sexual assault victims and lgbtq students. While project 2025 does not specifically call for the end of marriage equality, it makes indirect arguments for treating same sex marriages as second class marriages. Joining me now is trace, aclu deputy director for trans transgender justice. And the founding editor and chief of on closeted media. It is great to have both of you with us. Chase, i will start with you but in this nation piece by wendy, there was this argument, she is the president and cofounder of the global project against hate and extremism, there is an argument that regardless of who becomes the president, the project 2025 antitrans, and try lgbtq rights agenda has now seeped so much into the mainstream and is backed by a lot of organizations, that we are going to be dealing with this regression, if you will, for the rights of the lgbtq community for years to come. What are you and the aclu doing to combat that post november? ask what are we doing to combat it now, post november, well into the future? as you mentioned, this is very much embedded in our political, or cultural realities right now. Many of those passing into law. And i think going back to the trump video, i think it is so important because he has the audacity to stand there on that stage and say something so patently ridiculous the week after a school shooting. And i think if we think about what implicitly he is saying there, because i think anyone who thinks about it for two seconds knows that it is ridiculous to think about your child going to school and getting free healthcare and coming back at the end of the day with an operation, that is not how things work in this country, but the implied message there is that the worst thing that can happen to your child is that they would be transferred worse even than not even getting to have them home at the end of the day. And that is the message that so many people are receiving in this country right now and it is affecting politics from new york to california to illinois. It is just a factual lie, nobody is going to school to get any kind of operation, let alone vapid it is a straight up lie to say that in front of millions of people, that is donald trump you. It is not only lgbtq youth affected by these policies, a teacher was reprimanded by school administrators simply for speaking up for one of her students who is being bullied because he has two moms. All she said was that all families deserve to be treated with respect. What have you seen in your reporting and studies about how farreaching these antilgbtq laws and sentiments are? well, thanks for having me. And i think that's what we really need to pay attention to. I have covered far right extremism, i have done documentaries on the ku klux klan, on the michigan militia. And the difference with america's antilgbtq ecosystem is that it is far more insidious. These people are coming to the table with ivy league degrees, dressed in suits. They have the money and the power and resources to actually get things done, and it is really alarming. And i think the difference now compared to 10 years ago is that there is a green light for these people to actually say how they feel out loud. And they are being venomous and vitriolic when it comes to their antilgbtq sentiment. I mean, the people who wrote the project 2025, decorative foundation, one source told me this isn't your george bush era heritage foundation. They are now being a lot more vitriolic, and as wendy, one source in our story said, this is a systematic dehumanization of one of the most marginalized groups in our society. These are the underdogs in america right now, and rather than having nuanced conversations to discuss the complexities of gender affirming healthcare for trans kids, instead we are coming at them with vitriolic and abusive language, and it is abhorrent and disgusting. The dehumanization, it's one thing that that is happening, but what we have seen time and time again and what's the receptionist time and time again is that dehumanization, this kind of vitriolic rhetoric leads to violence. Members of the trans communities, they have been victims of violent crimes on the rise, more and more so. Just this week, there was a trans teenager in massachusetts who was assaulted and seriously injured by a group of as many as 20 to 30 of his peers. That is a real concern, this is not just political discourse to win votes, this has reallife consequences on innocent trans victims. Yeah, what we are seeing is taking the societal, political problems and finding a marginalized community blaming that community. Trans people are being blamed for structural violence. Trans people are being blamed for things as ridiculous as school shootings, and yet, that type of rhetoric leads to people enacting individual violence against the trans community. Project 2025 doesn't just mention lgbtq people, the entire framework criminalizes lgbtq identities by deeming being trans pornographic, and deeming pornography criminal. So, this is a whole structural framework for society that cast lgbtq people as a type of deviance to be controlled and punished, and that what we see our kids being bullied in school. Than what we see are people being attacked and murdered on the street. And were also seen, spencer, what's happening right now in texas. We have learned trans people in texas won't be able to change the gender on their birth certificates anymore. Walk us through the kind of impact this has for people on the ground, what we are seeing here is essentially the erasure of trans visibility. It is the essentially the erasure of trans visibility. And i think we interviewed chase at 60 minutes a few years ago about this, and when it was mainly bills and laws that were coming for trans kids, and i remember him saying it is going to trickle over. They are trying to take trans rights away from the entire population, and that's what we are seeing right now. In the case of texas, it may just be state i. D. Or driver's license, but what that creates is confusion. It creates a doubt in landlords, bank tellers, you can't necessarily apply for a new apartment, open up a bank account. I mean, what is the point of these laws other than just explicit transphobia, and again, the marginalization of a group that is already in the underdogs? everyone watching this can feel what it feels like to not feel great about yourself or to be the underdog in society or to feel marginalized, so why are we attacking this group right now in such an aggressive and gross weight question spencer, chase, thank you to the both of you, greatly appreciated as always