a panic. >> what i've been able to do with the covid -- excuse me -- with dealing with everything we have to do with -- look, if -- we finally beat medicare. >> i really don't know what he said at the end of that sentence. >> how will the president reassure voters concerned about his age and fitness for office? >> i don't debate as well as i used to. well i know what i do know. i know how to tell the truth! >> could there be a change at the top of the ticket? plus, filibuster. donald trump refuses to say if he'll accept the results of the next election while defending the actions of the rioters on january 6th. >> on january 6th, we were respected all over the world. >> as his criminal conviction hangs over the race. >> the only convicted felon is the man i'm looking at right now. >> i didn't have sex with a porn star. >> my guest this morning, rafael warnock and doug burgum of north dakota. joining me for insight and analysis are, nbc news political analyst chuck todd. christina lunn dough rooney. marc short, former chief of staff to vice president mike pence, and former obama white house communications director jennifer palmieri. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history. this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. good sunday morning. it is yet another extraordinary moment in the 2024 election cycle. with democrats in a state of crisis after president joe biden delivered a disastrous debate performance that fueled voters top concerns about his age and the ability to serve another four years in office. not since the first nixon/kennedy debate in 1960 has a debate had as much potential to shake up a presidential race. this morning there's widespread panic within the democratic party and questions about whether the president should drop out of the race. >> i think it was [ bleep ] disaster. i think it was like maybe the worst debate i've ever seen in my entire life. >> i do think people feel like we're confronting a crisis. >> the debate will be whether he should continue. >> it was shocking sad, absurd, and by the end, scary. anyone who says that is not a tough call right now is full of [ bleep ] >> on friday in a stunning move, "the new york times" editorial board called on president biden to serve his country and drop out of the presidential race. nbc news has learned that president biden is expected to address his campaign with his family at camp david. that's according to five people familiar with the matter. now, he and first lady jill biden arrived there late last night to join their children and grandchildren in a trip planned before thursday's debate. the campaign was always going to be a topic of debate but now it's front and center. senior vieszer anita dunn addressed the matter on saturday. >> you had no conversations about whether he should drop out of the race? >> the conversation was what do we do next? okay, barack obama said bad debates happen. we had a bad debate. what do we do next? the president is, above all, focused on what do we do next. >> president biden agreed to the election debate. he had one goal, to persuade the voters who were skeptical about his age and fit for office that he is up to serve for four more years. he has consistently told voters, watch me. >> can i still run up the steps of air force 2? am i still in good shape? do i still have all my faculties? am i still energetic? i think it's appropriate. >> this is for voters to decide. take a look. see if i have the edge and if i know what i'm talking about and make their judgment. >> i think it's a legitimate concern. the best way to make a judgment is to, you know, watch me. >> well, on thursday night, voters watched the president deliver a halting performance. at times appearing confused and repeatedly losing his train of thought. >> making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person familiar with covid -- excuse me, everything that had to do with -- look, if -- we finally beat medicare. >> for his part mr. trump unleashed a torrent of false claims saying most americans supported overturning roe v. wade when it was the opposite. he refused to apsz whether to accept the election results in november. >> will you accept the lults of the election regardless of who wins, yes or no please? >> if it's a fair and good election, absolutely. i would have accepted these, but the fraud and everything else was ridiculous. >> democrats are publicly expressing support for biden on friday night barack obama quoted, bad debates happen, trust me, i know. but this is somebody who fought for ordinary folks his entire life and someone who only cares about himself. president biden had talking points in an all out effort to contain damage, voters on friday, insisting he's prepared to fight on. >> i know i'm not a young man. i state the obvious. i don't walk as easy as i used to. i don't speak as smoothly as i used to. i don't debate as well as i used to. but i know what i do know. i know how to tell the truth! >> the decision is effectively president biden's alone. at this point, if he dropped out of the race, he would free up his delegates to support another nominee. so far the president and his campaign have indicated that he does not plan to step aside. on capitol hill there are widespread fears about losing the white house, but top leaders are urging calm. >> you see a performance that gets the kind of reviews that performances get that's cause for concern. that was strike one. if this were a ball game, he's got two more swings. >> do you think president biden is the best at the top of the ticket. >> i'm a big supporter of president biden. he's been a great president. >> joining me now from atlanta is democratic senator raphael warnock. senator warnock, welcome back to "meet the press." >> great to be here with you, good morning. >> good morning to you. it is great to have you here. let me start with the debate. president biden had one goal, to prove to voters that he was capable of serving another four years in office. by all accounts he did not meet his own bench marc. do you think president biden should drop out of this race, senator? >> oh, absolutely not. you know, they say if it's sunday morning, it's "meet the press." fe me as pastor, it's church time. i can tell you there have been more than a few sundays when i wish i had preached a better sermon, but after the sermon was over, it was my job to embody the message, to show up for the people that i serve. and that's what joe biden has been doing his entire life, his entire life of public lick service and over the last four years. he's been showing up for the election. having to choose between buying food and buying medicine in the wealthiest nation on the planet. he's been showing up for workers. he's been showing up for people chasing the american dream, finding students mired in student debt, and he found a way while being resistant by trump's allies to forgive debt. the question this morning is not what is joe biden going to do. the question is who has donald trump ever shown up for other than himself and people like himself? i'm with joe biden, and it's our assignment to make sure that he gets over the finish line come november, not for his sake, but for the country's sake. >> senator, i heard you say this was a bad performance, but a lot of democrats were saying, boy, it was more than that. it raised real concerns about his readiness or ability to serve for four more years. what was your reaction when you saw him struggling to complete sentences. >> if they weren't engaged a little hammering, they wouldn't be democrats. i appreciate what was said saturday. bad debates happen. this was 90 minutes. but let me tell you about that 90 minutes. donald trump lied the entire 90 minutes. one analysis said that he told about 30 lies. i'm not real good at math, but i think that's about a lie every 90 seconds. that's real talent. that means whenever his mouth was moving, he was lying. we can't have someone like that in the oval office. that's not a tlanlt we need in the free world. the character and the meddle of the man that he is, he has demonstrated this in his public service and life. he's a life of public service, baptized in sorrow, and that's why you feel this sense of care when you meet him. that's our project. it's our job to make sure donald trump gets no where near the oval office. >> and yet, senator, it was president biden's job to push back on those lies that you mentioned, and by all accounts, he either wasn't capable or wasn't ready to do that during that debate on thursday night. why shouldn't democrats and supporters be deeply concerned about his ability to take on donald trump, what you have framed as an existential threat? >> i have to admit to you that i almost for got how much donald trump lies, and one of the other things that i saw in that debate and the american people saw, if you want to talk about the big takeaway, we saw donald trump trash talking the whole country. >> yeah. >> as he's been doing over the last several years, trash talking our workers, saying there are people who are dying everywhere. in fact, the murderspiked under his leadership have gone down under president biden's leadership. he's been trash talking our country. if you listen to donald trump, you have to come away with the conclusion he thinks he's better. the opposite is true. america is better, a whole lot better than donald trump, and we've had a primary. it's our job to demonstrate that. the world is watching and our children are counting on us to get this right. >> so if that's the case, if those are the stakes, the future of this country and the children of this country, if you think president biden should stay in this race, what do you think he needs to do to be able to win, because i have to tell you, i've been having conversations with democrats throughout the weekend who say he cannot when this race at this point? >> he needs to keep showing up. >> does he need to show up more, senator? does he need to be doing more interviews and more debates? >> i think he needs to keep showing up the way he has been showing up for the american people and for the people in my state. when we passed a bipartisan infrastructure bill, we invested some $9 billion in my state alone. this is creating jobs, some 600,000 jobs all across our country. and i think part of the reason we're here, with all due respect, kristen, is often in our politics in america, it's covered like it's a football game. this is not fantasy football. these are people's lives we're talking about. we spend a lot of time on these programs talking about politicians, as if it's about the politicians, who's up, who's down, who's in, who's out. i think the american people sitting around their kitchen tables this morning are asking who cares. who's thinking about me, who cares about me, and we have no proof that donald trump has ever thought about anybody other than himself. >> yeah. well, when you think about what the next several months of this debate and race are going to look like, the deba it will continue to be front and center undoubtedly, and the rnc signaling what their attacks are going to look like. they posted this video spotlighting democrats' claims about the fitness of president biden, and it really is a preview of what we may see. take a look. >> he is sharp, intensely probing, and detail-oriented, and focused. >> this is a man who is sharp, on top of his game, who knows what's going on. >> this guy is tough, he's smart, he's on his game. >> his mental acuity is great. >> this is a very sharp president. >> this is a man that's on his game. >> senator, do those comments reflect the joe biden you know when you are with him behind closed doors? >> oh, absolutely. i have spent time with joe biden, and i can tell you that not only does he have a tough mind, he has a tender heart. and that's what you need in a president. donald trump has neither. he lacks both intellectual curiosity and emotional empathy. he doesn't think deeply about anything, and he's not thinking about anybody other than himself. that is the binary choice in front of us. again, with all due respect, i think that this exercise and fantasiing about a scenario that we don't have is unhelpful. we can ill-afford to be distracted at a time like this. we have a man who has the competence and the character to lead this great nation and who loves this nation. we have another man who thinks he's better than the nation. and it is our job to prove that america is better than donald trump. >> does he need to prove that in a more robust way. for exam tell, the white house released the president's annual physical. no cognitive exam was done at the time. for the sake of transparency, should president biden take the cognitive exam before the election and release those results? >> listen. in the course of an election -- and i'm not a part of the campaign. in the course of an election, we ought to test these men. they ought to be out there in front of the public. we ought to see who they are. and quite frankly, the more i hear donald trump talking, the more nervous i become. i don't need president biden to take a cognitive exam. >> is that a yes? >> listen, it's not something, quite frankly, i've even thought about. i tell you, watching donald trump the other night, i have to say to myself, this is a sick person. how do you stand and literally lie every 90 seconds? i don't know anybody like that. we're not even talking about whether you're worthy to be the president of the united states. this is somebody with a deep personal issue, and america's better than donald trump. >> senator, i know we're not there yet, but as you well know, there's a lot of buzz whether or not president biden will step down. if he does, would you like to see vice president harris at the top of the ticket? is she the next strongest person to represent democrats? >> i have great respect for vice president harris, whom i've spent a great deal of time with, but joe biden is the nominee, and i'm going to do everything i can to make sure he's elected along with kamala harris come november. >> is she the next choice? >> i don't think it's helpful other than to imagine the scenario in front of us. we've got real enemies abroad. this is a serious race. listen, elections at the end of the day are not only about the character of the folks who are running it, but the character of the country. this is our moment, to demonstrate to our children, that we are better than the people we would re-elect, somebody who's a pathological liar, a malil nanlt narcissist. i think the future is bright under joe biden's leadership. >> senator warnock, thank you so much for your time this morning, we really appreciate it. >> thank you. good morning, everybody. when we come back, he's on the short list of his vice presidential picks. doug burgum joins me next. picks doug burgum joins me next. did h a thing called the debat did anybody last night watch a thing called the debate? many people are saying that after last night's performance that joe biden is leaving the race, but the fact is i don't really believe that because he does better in polls than any of the democrats. >> welcome back. in virginia on friday, former president trump tried to capitalize on president biden's debate performance while casting concerns over whether he'll drop out of the race. joining me now, governor doug burgum, a top fiest to will be mr. trump's running mate. good morning. welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you. good to be here. >> let's talk about donald trump's debate performance. three times he refused to say he would accept the results of this election. he still has not conceded the 2020 election. you have said that joe biden is legitimately elected president. so let me ask you. should donald trump as the presidential nominee unequivocally accept the election results? >> well, kristen, i heard him on thursday night saying he would accept the results of the election if it was free and fair and secure, all of the things any of us, whether you're a democrat republican, would expect. i think that's what we need in this entire country. i think he answered the question. the real question is if president trump wins in the fall, which it looks like he will, will joe biden and the democrats accept the results? >> you know in his answers there were caveats and those are what undermine people's faith in a free and fair democracy. is he not undermining people's faith in the democracy and the democracy itself while being asking about the fairness of the election? >> i have to reject the whole premise. just in the short lifetime, you don't have to be that old to know in 2000 the democrats challenged the election. they had every right to challenge it. it went down to one county, the hanging chads in broward county. yes, hillary clinton conceded the election, but immediately after that began what's still going on today as a smear campaign about whether the election results in '16 were legitimate. so both parties have done this. as a country, if we want to move forward, we e have to vice president an election that both parties agree to. >> governor, let me push back for a moment. therein lies the difference. everyone has a right to challenge the election. donald trump did that. yet hillary clinton and al gore conceded. donald trump has yet to concede. is that not undemocratic for someone who's running for leader of the country and the free world again? >> donald trump on january 20th at the end of his term left the white house. >> i wouldn't say it was a smooth transition. >> it was a smooth transition. every party is going to challenge an election if they don't think it's fair. there are 131 counties and each of those counties sometimes have different rules. in 2020 with covid, there was a myriad set of regulations we had never seen before. of course, i think going into 20 o 24, both parties will be very focused on this. the idea that this is a threat to democracy, as a governor in north dakota today, i've been living under what i call the biden dictatorship because of all the rules and regulations. thank goodness the supreme court came out on friday with the chevron ruling because we can put a stop to agencies actually creating laws. >> let me ask you comments about a dictatorship and then i i want to get back to this. you say he's a dictator for passing all these rules and regulations. trump had passed 160 regulations and you as govern have passed 164. does that make you a dictator of north dakota? >> i'm not trying to jam things down. joe biden is creating a butch of new effectively laws that are affecting our country. i want to go back to the top. you asked about the debate. every channel this morning should be talking about what happen. this is the most consequential historic debate in history because we never had a debate where immediately after it's over -- this is like a rocky knockout. everybody is talking should joe biden stay in the race. that has never happened in our history. it was such a dominant performance by president trump in this debate. >> it's also happened in our history that someone has not actually accepted the election results, which is where this conversation began. let me ask you, again, governor, as someone on trump's short list to be vp, can you commit here and now today to accepting the election results? >> kristen, these hypothetical questions that keep coming up imploo i that somehow every one of our 131 counties in america have going to go perfectly. i never commented on a bill before it reached my desk. i'm not going -- >> you won't commit to accepting the election results? >> if they're free and fair, of course, but this hypothetical question, the democrats won't accept it if they think there are irregularities. ask joe biden if he's going to accept it if he thought they weren't free and clear. >> well, again, the democrats have said they will accept the election results and no democrat has refused to concede who's running for office. again, does that not undermine the democracy, people's faith in our dmom? >> people trust president trump more than president biden on democracy right now, and the democrat party in this election, four years ago when we ended up with the current ticket, that was this grand devil's bargain with everybody drop out, we're going with these two. the biggest lie that has been foisted on the american public was seen on thursday night. people can't unsee what they saw. we've been told by the white house, two weeks ago the white house was attacking journalists including your friends that joe biden isn't capable of serve right now. you know who else saw it? our adversaries, putin, she saw it, the ayatollah. we're talking about elections. we're at a greater national security -- >> governor. >> -- commander in chief has shown he's not capable ofl serving. >> there's not proof in that. will it me ask you a little bit about the debate we saw. i want to show you something we played with chuck todd on this broadcast. >> have you ever lied in politics? >> nope. >> you believe you've always told the truth as you under it. >> absolutely, that's how i was raised. >> as someone on donald trump's short list, do you think he should stop saying things that are not true? >> i think the whole manufactured thing this morning of -- that donald trump has said something that he hasn't said before, i mean everything he said on thursday night, he's been saying before. so this isn't -- >> but that's not manufactured, governor, just to say a few. he said democrats want to kill infants after birth, that's not true. they lied about widespread fraud, that's not true. should he be truthful with the american people if he wants to lead the country especially given what you said, that you never lie. that's your standard, governor. >> you bring up an important issue. i think one of the reasons the democrats are in complete disarray, it's not just joe biden's performance. they were running on something called life. donald trump has been very clear, he will not support a federal abortion ban. he was super clear on that during the debate. and when he charged joe biden will you agree -- the moderators asked joe biden will you agree to any restrictions in the last day of the ninth month and joe biden would not commit to that. the marker has been set. i believe this belongs back at the states and that's where it shall stay. >> the democrats said they only support those abortions if, of course, the life of the mother is at stake or the life of the child. i want to blake something you said about abortion when you were running for governor in 2016. >> when you outlaw the ability to terminate pregnancies and make it illegal, it's just makes it unsafe for some of the most vulnerable people -- >> just to put a fine point, you said america was an unsafe place for women before roe v. wade. by your own standard, is america unsafe as a result of roe v. wade being overturned? >> no, it's not. >> so you've evolved in your thinking in that because you said right there it was unsafe for women before roe. >> let's be clear. that was a comment from over eight years ago, and certainly i've evolved in that position. but the part that i've evolved, i understand that it's important what north dakota as a very pro-life state, even different than our neighbor minnesota, the states are different, i have been clear, i'm opposed to a federal abortion ban. i'm aligned with president trump on that, and that's something to be left to the states. >> just to be clear, what changed your mind? why did you think it was unsafe before row very wade? >> you know and everybody else know that care has evolved during that period of time, and i think we can honor and protect those goals. making sure we're honoring life and delivering against maternal care, and that's going to be handled best on a state-by-state level. >> we talked about the fact that you're on the short list to be donald trump's running mate. have you heard from the president about this? has he asked you to be his running mate? >> everything about the process of the vice president thing, that's between the campaign and those that might be being considered, but i would just say that president biden after his strong debate performance on thursday, where he was going in the polls before that, what this is doing for his fund-raising, the strong performance, he has so many he can pick for this job. he could probably win the election without a vice president going forward, but i think he'll make a decision. >> have you had any conversations about it, yes or no, we're out of time. >> that's between the president and i. >> that's not a no. i lost my pen. good, we made some news. i appreciate it. governor burgum, thank you so much. when we come back, pressure is growing for president biden to drop out of the race. will he step aside? we'll discuss it. the panel is next. ext. unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. there's only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. so clearly you. sotyktu. sleep more deeply and wake up rejuvenated. purple mattresses exclusive gel flex grid draws away heat, so clearly you. relieves pressure and instantly adapts. sleep better. live purple. right now save up to $800 off mattress sets at purple. visit purple.com or a store near you today i know you love your dada. of course he loves you, he just doesn't show it on his face. or with his body language. 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[ screams ] >> if it's sunday it's "meet the press." welcome back. the panel is here. news chief political analyst chuck todd, christina welcome back. the panel is here. chuck todd, christina for telemundo. former white house communications director palmieri and former chief of staff to mike pence, marc short. no shortage of things to discuss on this sunday. chuck, let me start with you. like you, i've been working the phones and hearing panicked calls from democrats. what are you hearing? >> thursday night to friday morning there was full-on panic. everyone was trying to figure out what are the rules of d.c., how could this work, who would get to joe biden or jill biden to get him out of this. over the weekend there was this sort of resignation. there's not much that can be done without his cooperation. this only happens if he chooses to do it, and there appears to be an unofficial memo that said if you want him to get out, don't sate it yet. if you say it publicly, nothing will get him more defiant in this race than an editorial in the newspaper saying get out of this race. you can see it. there's been some public leakage and reporters saying or leaking this. there's about a ten-day window here. i am fascinated by some things we haven't seen. we haven't seen biden. one rally that they were able to put together in north carolina that was very difficult to put together. rallies are very hard right now for democrats because they have to worry about gossip protesters and all this other stuff. yes, that went well. where is he since? if you have issues about whether you can think on your feet and you have a problem and it was a bad debate, what would you be doing? you'd be flooding the airways, doing interviews, podcasts, go to friendly spots, whatever. the fact they're not doing any of that, i think it's one of those, hey, look what's not happening. that's a big deal too. >> christina, pick up on that point. i mean, basically democrats are also waiting to see what the polling will show, and the public has the final say here. we all saw the same debate, but if it doesn't have a big impact with the public, with voters, president biden could make the argument, hey, look, i'm e going to stay in this race. how are people you're talking to reacting to what happened on thursday? >> we had a town hall meeting in l.a. with latino leaders, and a lon of them said they didn't hear anything new. it was more form over substance, and they're saying the worst fears they had for both of them were confirmed for them and came true. they see a biden who did not put to rest their concerns about his acuity, mental acuity. they were resentful that he didn't defend them more against the litany of lies that they -- that donald trump was saying. and they were very resentful of the back and forth. they said it's two old white men being childish talking about things most of the working class does not understand. i was talking with registered voters in atlanta. one of them said he would rather vote for biden, an 80-something that sometimes loses his train of thought than a man that has 80-something criminal charges against him. there was another guy who said he was going to stick with trump. this did not change. there was a couple that was very interesting because what they said to me was that they love joe biden especially because he was the guy that saved the country from trump being reelected, and they are concerned that by staying, he's going to be the guy that brings them back. >> jen, give us the background. will he win this race? >> we're 48 hours in. the funny thing is, the deeper we get into it, the more you realize how early this is, right? it's -- it was a -- it was a bad performance and particularly concerning given his age, but polls right now are kind of meaningless, and then when you look at the actual evidence, he's raised -- there's a new number now. i think it's $33 million. he had -- the campaign points to his good performance on friday in north carolina, and i think what's important about that performance isn't necessarily he had a good moment. it's the way the crowd realked to him. what people are seeing is there a rallying effect here? have people had his back? i've been guilty of underestimating. i didn't think he was going win. i have underestimated. the american people decided in 2017, joe biden is the guy to take on trump, and do you really want to mess with that now given the stakes and when the only evidence we have right now is there seems to be a rallying effect, and i think that is why people are not -- that's why people are hanging back, you know, and not criticizing him and giving him room for everyone to process what this means. people are approaching this with a lot of integrity. i think they're trying to figure out what the right thing to do is. >> speaking of that, marc, are republicans almost a little nervous for president biden to get out of the race, because then that's a game-changer. by the way, you're getting a lot of ratings for a brokered convention. all of a sudden, all of that focus on donald trump will shift to the democrats. >> i think most americans are locked in on what they're going to do. there's only a small sliver ore f people undecided. there's not going to be a lot of change in the polls. it will be a false hope for democrats. they were looking to see, can he make it in the most important job in the world for another four years and now they're wondering can he make it for president biden. there's no way out. if you go to vice president harris, she's even less popular. there's going to be all kinds of riff. >> you know, democrats want to lecture republicans for putting party over country, how they've been enabling with donald trump. mitch mcconnell is frequently criticized at the meet for divided his own party and letting trump off the hook by not voting to impeach him. can democrats really sit there and say, you know, this is not about whether joe biden can win the election. he can win the election because he's joe biden and not donald trump. the real issue, is he telling the truth on whether he can serve the full four years? there's a lot of challenges in the world. do we want a president that could be incapacitated? this is one of those where you've got to say to yourself, this is hard, there's no doubt. there's risk no matter what you do here, but you've got to say to yourself, what's in the best interest of the country, not at the party. >> people don't know that yet, you know. >> that's a fair point. >> it's a pretty big point to say the president isn't able to do his job. there's not any evidence of that given the job he's done. >> i'm going to pause that because there's another pam coming up. when we come back, a very memorable moment in atlanta when millions were watching that wasn't a presidential event. we look back at muhammad al's torch lighting at the iconic games. "meet the press" is back in a minute. "meet the press" is back in a minute welcome back. the paris olympics are now less than a welcome back. the paris olympics are now less than a month away with final preparations underway as the city prepares to welcome more than 15 million fans. in 1996, olympic gold medalist muhammad ali lit the cauldron during the opening ceremony to the atlanta games, a ceremony dedicated to the memory of dr. martin luther king jr. civil rights leader young reflected on this moment in an interview with "meet the press". >> when we were selecting who should light the torch, we really wanted that team. we wanted evander holefield and a greek sprinter and janet evans. and we thought muhammad ali was an athlete who really took his sport to a new level, and i think, though, that if martin was right that violence is the language of the unheard, that everybody in the world is speaking in these olympics in some way, and the presence of muhammad ali should have been a symbol of the we're protestanting catholic, jew, muslim, hindu, all working together. >> you can watch the paris olympics on nbc and streaming on peacock. before we come back, donald trump's most important decision, picking the vice president. the panel weighs in next. picking the vice president the panel weighs in next and the panel is back. jen, let's talk about what and the panel is back. jen, let's talk about what would happen if president biden were to make that decision to step aside, to pass the torch. what would that look like, what would an open or brokered convention look like? >> it's kind of unappealing, so i think that's partly why people -- you know, everyone is -- it's like -- it's processing what that's going to be. so it -- if he decided to step aside prior to the convention, you know, people could -- people could run, and you would have ballots after ballots until someone emerged from the convention as a winner. there was this one idea that i think james carville has where obama, clinton, and biden would select someone to go to the convention like ""america's got talent"?" dems got talent. they do. but i think someone would select them and you would have a convention. now, there's an argument, wow, that would be so exciting and you would come out energized. we also know an idea in print sounds good, but once you unleash it to the world, people don't know what you're talking about. >> when you make decisions based on, i'm afraid more people will be involved in the process, this is like, every time a political party worries about the voters and then tries to create a system that sort of sideswipes it, you're opening yourself up for problems here. that said, let's be realistic here. if he decides to do this, to back off, he controls his delegates because they're already his delegates. he would control -- essentially he would be queen or king maker here, and there's really no other option. it's kamala harris. i think everybody needs to realize it's going to be here, which is why you suddenly have other democratic figures say as much as they want this, they're nervous if she leads the ticket. but i think you look at biden's poll numbers, you would say, if we believe this about biden's ticket, you stick with him. we should look at this through the other prism. how has trump not gotten a lift out of this? i think it just shows you how unpopular he is. >> he's got a high floor, and a low ceiling. i don't think you see a big difference in the polling, but for a very small number -- the country's so decided, but that i have no confidence that biden can be president again and kamala harris is the only one who doesn't do as well against trump as any other democrats, so where do we go? >> right now she doesn't do as well, but somebody said, wait a minute, this could look a little different if this happens, if this scenario is laid out. what if barack obama and hillary clinton and joe biden say, support this person, that could potentially change the dynamic potentially for kamala harris. >> the fact that they would be in the convention, they would be kingmakers, what does that say about democracy, that's one of the questions, and would it be a boost or a bust? we don't know. it depends on the infighting and chaos. i don't think america has a bug stomach for more chaos and more divisiveness. >> regardless, the campaign has to change. if biden has to stay -- it's pretty obvious. anyone dealing with elderly parents or friends, it's like going bankrupt. first it happens slowly and then it happens quickly. it would be irresponsible for the biden campaign not to make her front and center. if they're going to stick with this, she's got to be the lead. they've got to get the country comfortable with her because a lot of people are going to go to the polls with the assumption with biden leading at the top of the ticket he's not going to finish his term. it would be irresponsible if they didn't help her make a better con next with the people. it's obvious they have never been kamala harris friends. they'veostracized. >> i don't think that's the case anymore. she was really great on thursday night. she makes the most effective argument on abortion. >> she might be better as an advocate for him than herself. >> she's a great advocate. she calls them trump abortion bans, which is great. i think she would be awesome if she were out there more. >> marc, one more on doug burgum as vp. he went so far as to suggest there have been conversations, but who do you think he'll pick? >> i think the story is right. a month ago i said it would be burgum, marco rubio, or jd vance. he provides a lot of assurances to people. >> loyalty. >> sounds familiar. >> sounds a lot like vice president mike pence. >> marco rubio provides the most substance as far as international foreign policy and jd vance is a mini me. no idea on where they're going sno last chance before we go, christina. your thoughts on vp stakes. >> i think marco rubio would get it. it would be history-making. we're also watching what he justifies what he said about trump before and now how he's fallen in line with him. but we're expecting that from all three of them right now. >> that's a great point. one shift we've seen is his view on immigration. great point. thank you all for a fantastic conversation on a very big sunday. before we go, i want to thank my dear friend and colleague peter alexander who did a phenomenal job in the moderator chair for the past few weeks. john, mar and i were thrilled. thank you for your support and thank you for watching. we're back next week, because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press". it's sunday, it's "meet the press" folks, i give you my word as a biden, i would not be running