threat to marriage equality. i'm jonathan capehart, this is the sunday show. tomorrow is a big day for memory democracy. for tomorrow, on the final day of its term, the supreme court will issue its long awaited decision on donald trump's claim on presidential immunity in his federal election interference case. the ruling could determine if trump will ever face accountability for his role in the violent insurrection at the u.s. capitol on january 6th, 2021. but no matter wha( the justices decide, the court's decision to delay this case until now has all but guaranteed that trump will not have to stand trial before the november election and this decision will drop after a weekend which biden has growing calls for him to bow out after his shaky debate performance on thursday. right now he is with his family at camp david, a trip planned before the debate but a trip where the debate and the panic will come up. the board correctly says any decision to drop out of the race should ultimately rest with the president. pointing out that biden, quote, can not be coerced into doing something he does not want to do nor should he be. other boards ■çflat out urged h to step aside. the board was first out the gate writing quote to serve his country president biden should leave the race and the atlantic constitution from georgia suggested that quote, it is time for biden to pass the torch. but, what about the twice impeached four times indicted on 88 counts and convicted on 34 felonies former president and his debate performance that was filled with an avalanche of more of 30 false claims? so far the inquirer in battleground pennsylvania the only board to call on trump to drop out. saying quote, the debate serves a ■çreminder. more lies, grievance, narcissism and hate. >> never the less, the dplair of the media spotlight remains focused on what president biden and the democratic party plan to do next. nbc news reports that some top democratic leaders privately expressed concerns about the president's viability. but publicly two of the party's biggest leaders are pulling back and standing by him. here is what the speaker, nancy pelosi and minority leader jeffreys had to jeffries. >> i am not abandoning biden, and i am supporting them, many of our gras[-■roots people. >> joe biden has confronted and had to come back from tragedies and tribulations throughout his life, sot moment we are in right now, is one. co-chair for the biden/harris campaign. thank you for coming. let me get word from you. do you agree with minority leader jeffries this is president biden's comeback moment? >> yes, i do. thank you for having me. the fact of the matter, i made it very clear since the morning after that is, friday morning, that i think people ought to just chill ■çout. this is something that denotes what can happen any time a president takes to debate. we saw it happen historically. reagan, barack obama now it has happened to joe biden. when you have been running the country as he has been, faced with all of the issues that he is faced with you don't have time to think about stories about the past or to forget about what is going on around you. you got to face your job. he has been doing that. and, so, for him, for him to vote in preparation and what i have been calling ■çthis. a classic example of preparation overload. i think there should have been less preparation for this debate and much more activism in his job. >> congressman i agree with you. you can see the president trying to remember the dollars and the figures and the everything from moments that biden from the heart, the irish biden would say more of that, more of that, please. have you spoken to the president since the debate? >> no, i have not. we knew before the debate that he was going to do that debate and was going to go to new jersey and on over to, down from there ?9 family. i never had planned to ■çtalk t him until after i finish here in wisconsin tomorrow. i am doing my fifth event of the day here in wisconsin. and i will be here all day tomorrow and then i will talk to the president afterwards. >> congressman, since you there are in wisconsin and doing lots of events. tell me the truth, are what you hearing from people on the ground? >> almost total, i am saying almost, i have not heard a single person express anything negative. all they are saying to us is keep joe biden moving forward. from what i have heard, around $33 million in small donations, most of it small donations coming into the party. when i left washington on ■kp &c friday night, i went directly to tampa, florida, i was in a meeting with 8,400 african american men, when i mentioned joe biden they were standing on their feet. they had nothing to say but positive things about this campaign. so, when i hear all of this talk about he should drop out, i don't see that anywhere out here. no place. here in madison. i am in detroit. going on to milwaukee. nothing. they are saying that joe biden should . >> congressman, one more question for you since you mentioned that event that you did with all of those black men, donald trump said that migrants were taking so-called ç black jobs, congressman, what is a black job? [ laughter ] >> that is what i have been trying to figure out. all of those men that i talked to. is your job a black job? he said i am sitting in court, i am a federal job on senior status. is my job a black job? what is trump talking about? i said, well, he always categorized black people as being different from white people and therefore relegate us to a special type of job and that is what we is talking about. there ain't no black jobs, white jobs, these are jobs in the american economy and all of us should be pursuing the opportunity to fulfill ■çthese jobs but in donald trump's world. >> yeah, as it was said yesterday, when he says black jobs, she immediately thinks that he looks down on us and thinks that we are inferior. but we know better. thank you as always for coming to the sunday show. >> thank you very much very having me. and joining me now is former senator from alabama, and u.s attorney for alabama, doug jones, always a senior fellow at the center for american progress. all right, senator jones, your opinion on the calls for president biden to step aside as a result of his performance at the debate on thursday? >> you know, look, jonathan, i totally agree with the congressman. what ■çyou are seeing across th board. leader jeffries or pelosi, others, coming on the show after show over the weekend and expressing their support. what you are seeing is an under lying confidence that people have in joe biden. they have it not just because of the precedency in my lifetime over the last 3-1/2 years but his lifetime of service to the american people because everyone knows joe biden's first and foremost interest is to do what is in the best interest of the united states of america. that is what he is going to do. that is what he has continually done and i think, and i think representative said in an earlier statement, you know, the best performance is what is going in the past ;-■1/2 years. an amazing run. i think these calls are premature. by the way they are not really public calls. there are a lot of discussions going on behind-the-scenes there should have been. look, there is no question it was a bad night. i think at this point, people have to understand it and you are seeing a confidence with joe biden going forward. >> senator, let's talk about the big decision that we are awaiting that will hit tomorrow at about 10:00 tomorrow morning, that is trump versus the united states. that is if trump's claim of presidential immunity has merit in the interference case. do you foresee the 6-3 super majority granting complete immunity to donald trump? >> no, absolutely not. i can not imagine that is going to happen. but, i also believe, jonathan, thethis is not just, it is not just that simple, not just a black-and-white issue of blanket immunity. i would be shocked if the most conservative justices gave a blank immunity to any president of the united states. what i do think that they are going to try to do is to try to determine the difference between some presidential acts versus personal acts. i, that is where i think it will be an interesting dynamic between the justices and how this decision is going to come out. and quite frankly. i think that the decision will ultimately go back to the judge for district findings the case will not be tried before the election. at the same time if it goes back and the court requires the hearings we could ■çsee a monumental hearing in the likes of which we are the january 6th committee and the evidence coming out. that is where i think the rubber meets the road. that is the evidence and not the ultimate verdict. >> and senator, one more quick question for you. i am nerding out here. what is a grant be partial immunity. whatever this decision is it will apply to future presidents also.. >> . >> reporter: that is true. hard to say what they are looking at. we can speculate all day long. suppose if they simply grant, say, there is no immunity personal acts. things outside of the president. we have to tqk done in the official duties and take those one at a time and do a fact finding on each one. that happens all of the time. i know they are trying to do something for the ages as i think the justices said. now, it will not be the last we will hear of rulings about immunity for donald trump. >> former alabama senator doug jones. coming up, my sound off panel weighs in on the future of president ■çbiden's campaign and warnock's passionate decision. one year later, the massive implications of a supreme court decision are explored in a new documentary on how the fall of affirmative action is effecting college admissions process effe college admissions process if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga. because there are places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ nice to meet ya. my name is david. i've been a pharmacist for 44 years. when i have customers come in and ask for something for memory, i recommend prevagen. number one, because it's effective. does not require a prescription. and i've been taking it quite a while myself and i know it works. and i love it when the customers come back in and tell me, "david, that really works so good for me." makes my day. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. smile! you found it. the feeling of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. there's only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. so clearly you. sotyktu. her uncle's unhappy. so clearly you. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. . . do you think president biden should drop out of this race, senator? >> oh, absolutely not. bad debates happen. as president barack obama has said. this was 90 minutes. let me tell you about something in this 90 minutes. trump lied for 90 minutes. the character and the metal of the man that he is . >> that is senator warknock on "meet the press" making clear what is at stake and why biden stays in the race. in other ■çwords, folks, keep your eyes on the prize. joining me now, my sound off panel. former republican strategist and author of running against the devil. a plot to save america from trump and democrats from themselves. the host of mornings on sirrus xm for the clinton campaign. also the author of the end of white politics, how to heal our liberal divide. thank you for coming to the sunday show. we were hearing from warnock. i% i moderated the debate watching party during the aspen ideas festival. i want to ■çplay something. we did a pregame and a post game. let me play for you what mike madrid had to say to the dispondent crowd. mostly democrats in this crowd, about their reaction to the debate. watch this. >> you have a candidate that has flaws, but he is better than a 34 time convicted felon. pick up your swords and march down the battlefield. that is how you win. it is not taking off-ramps, folks. the republicans are not taking off-ramps, if you don't think it is a winnable race you are not paying attention to the data. it is extremely winnable. was clarifying for the nk it 4%- democrats in the audience to hear a republican tell them to basically put your big boy pants on, buck up and circle the wagons around the guy. >> that is right. >> mike, as a former lincoln project colleague and coming out of the same school of throughout where something goes wrong our why is not to hide under the blankets, go out and find the bad guys and punch them in the face. every single person who is riding around in pain on the floor saying woe is me, no matter what happens to joe biden or what he decides or happens to the democratic party you can never take off your foot off of the gas of attacking trump. mike has it right in that moment. for people who for people who are throwing their hands up, he has to ■çleave the race tomorro it is a fantasy. it is meeting the underpants nomes, it is not real. we have to fight against trump. you can not take days off. no extra days in the campaign. we have to fight trump every day. and, mike is exactly right on that. >> what do you think of what mike has and overall your observations? >> reporter: look, i think democrats are always freaking out. i mean going back several months, every month . i worked for hillary clinton and we are all traumatized by that debate. anyone watching the ■çdebate should not be saying either one did a good job. trump lied through the entire debate, joe biden had stumbles in the bigging. it was not overall good performance from either one of them. i think that we, we often overlook the fact that trump is, his unfavorables are because of how he behaves, right? it is not about republican spin about his record as in the case with joe biden, it is actually because of how he is. one of the things that i hate to hear is that, well, you know, his lying, his racism, his criminality it is baked in. no it is not. we should talk about it every single day and at they bait on thursday night he said he would not accept the results of ■çthe 2024 election like he did not in 2020 and in 2016. i also want to point out he needs a vice president, why? mike pence is not available? why is mike pence not available? on january 6 he incited an insurrection where supporters ran up on the capitol and mike pence had to run for his life. not a normal election and everyone should calm the heck down. >> i wish this was another cable channel where we can use the word that you wanted to use. >> i can do it on the radio but not here. >> you can? that is a nice job. that is a nice black job that you got there. [ laughter ] >> you know what i am going to do, i am going to go to break earth because whatever question i ask you we will be out of time. we will ■çgo to break earth and finish with my sound off panel after this ound off panel after this times. (fisher investments) i understand. that's why at fisher investments, we keep a disciplined approach with your portfolio, helping you through the market's ups and downs. (husband) what about communication? (fisher investments) we check in regularly to keep you informed. (wife) which means you'll help us stay on track? (fisher investments) yes. as a fiduciary, we always put your interests first. because we do better when you do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. 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[ laughter ] >> i hear you chuckling. do you have words on that before we go to the next sound bite? >> i don't have anything to ad. the only ■çreason they need a vice president is because mike pence is not available, he did not retire. i want to remind people of that. >> it is a dangerous job. >> yes. jonathan if i can jump in for 30 seconds i just want to say doug burgum reminds me of mike pence without the personality. there is not an exciting guy. [ laughter ] ng guy. [ laughter ] took me took me awhile. and wait, what? [ laughter ] >> north dakota is where my husband is from and where my in- laws live so, i am not laughing at north dakota. >> nice state. >> it is, actually. speaking of vice presidents, here is what lara trump had to say on fox news,úsénday morning futures, that show listen to what she had to say. most people would say -- there is low likelihood that joe biden gets through all four years. >> it is a bad situation all around for the democrats because look, in order for them to put someone else in to run they have to get joe bid tone quit or have to remove him as you noted via the 25th amendment. >> what? what? just your reaction. >> okay. so, what is wrong with vice president harris? i want them to admit why they don't like her and then we can p sane there is ■çsubtext in what they are saying. that would be a big problem with democrats, it would be a problem for them to nominate a black woman, why would it be bad? because there are a lot of people in this country who do not like black women, but black women are the base of the democratic party. so, i would say to democrats anybody considering replacing joe biden with someone other than harris might want to do some math: and rick, more to the point, the most reliable voters in the united states are black women. >> look. i look at it as a subtext. 400 point comic sans type. [ laughter ] >> they are out there saying, the scary black ahead ■çcan replace joe biden, be afraid! it is outrageous as predictable unfortunately. for lara trump to go out there and drop this out, it is one of many, many, many, many dog whistles. we saw trump during the debate talking about the black jobs. which went over well for him so far. he is, you know, there is an unsubtle game they are playing and they are going to keep playing it because certain part of their audience is convinced that she is the most dangerous person in the america. and, it is, it is absurdity, of course. >> because she is black [ laughter ] >> rick wilson and my fellow rome buddy, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. ■çstill to come, amid the pride flags, new red flags about potential threats to hard earned rights. i will discuss the state of the community with three of the major leaders, after this the major leaders, after this and doug. 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>> reporter: anybody looking at the supreme court would not feel confident it is a court that will overwatch our rights. one failed swoop they took g.ti 50 years precedent that protected our rights. the supreme court is so the ballot this election cycle. two, any ■çof our rights that a protected through the supreme court are fragile. we have to move forward and deeper through protections and law. some of that is done through respect for marriage act and we have a long way to go. >> and, to that point, you know, the case decided by the supreme court arguably was a case about immigration but justice barrett turned it into a marriage case and denying a visa to theel sail el is aalvedorian. they can not have their spouse in ■çthe country. married to an american citizen and so is their daughter. there was a big red flag that sotomayor pointed out. how concerned should they that the supreme court or two away from being overturned? >> i think we have to do more than be afraid. i think we have to move towards action. what we are able to see how is connected and linked our fates are. there is no issue that people care about, immigration, housing, prison reform that does not directly and often uniquely impact lbgtq people. this is a community. these are community issues. these are lbgtq issues. we have to get out and not just for the election but ■çlocally. school board elections and state houses. so, now is the time for sure. >> james, what do you make of all of this? >> we should be worried, right? one of the key focus area is marriage. protecting the right to marriage. we have seen where the majority used one area of law, immigration, to impact a seemingly unrelated area of law, marriage equality. it has its, immediate impacts for lbgtq community families, for separation, it could actually have the impact of having a person who is lbgtq plus move to another country that criminalizes homosexuality where their marriage is not protected. and the other thing is, we are not lookinga the this ■çcase in isolation, that is what kira is saying, all of it is connected. we are looking at it as a brooder step to implementing the goals of project 2025. >> and project 2025 is the plan, that project out of the heritage foundation that is looking at a wholesale reorganization of the government and the country. you know, this week, the court announced it is going to hear an appeal by the biden administration that will put the cork in the debate of gender-affirming care. how concerned, when i first saw the news i got very concerned that the supreme court is going to wade in on this issue. because it is the biden administration calling for the case to be heard ■çshould i in the be as worried? >> look. it is the last day of pride month, i thought we were going to do happy pride things >> we will get there. just answer this question. okay. all right. look. again, the supreme court is not institution right now where people are feeling confident in. that is why i think there is worry and concern. at the end of the day, right now, there is a ban on gender affirming care, on health care gender access. particularly in tennessee where the case comes from. so, the supreme court hearing it, it is an opportunity for them to side on the side of facts and uphold the constitution and the rule of law by not allowing the ban that is in place to continue. a silver lining here. but i want to say this, we have a supreme court that is not doing their job. they have been ■çcreating laws and legislating through their decisions instead of upholding the constitution and upholding laws as they are. so, our job right now. it is to tell our stories, to bring more visibility to what this case is all about and make sure when they are in oral arguments, when they are hearing the facts, enough room for them to do their job and upholding the rule of law. at the end of the day when you look at this case what it is trying to do is legalize discrimination in health care for certain people based on gender identity. that is not right. should do not want politicians deciding their health care for them. we learned that time and time again. so, as people are looking at this. i know there is a lot of concern and worry. i have to have you remember, we are not without hope, we are certainly not without power. in is something that we can do about it to all of the things that are ■çcausing us concern a worry. >> you know, jaymes, to kelley's point, i thought it was going to be happy. tell us about the things the community should be happy about. >> the community should be happy. we are still making progress, right? in the midst of lbgtq legislation and although we near this defensive posture, right, we are sort of battling all of these laws and these bills we are still making progress. i think about the historic settlement that we just won over florida. the florida don't say gay law where we were able to come to a settlement that nullifies the arming aspects of that bill. you can say gay now in florida. we should be proud of, right? i think that there are ways that we are being pro ticket ■ç a and not just fighting laws but thinking about what are the ways in which we can start to implement legislation that helps our families. the biden administration is a great demonstration of that. we should be proud and we should be happy and we should know all of the work that this administration has done to protect our families. >> we have been out during pride season, right? all month long. it has been really inspiring for me to see prides grow this year. you look at houston. you look at phoenix, kissimmee, florida, placing that are having their very first pride and some of them are growing, 3, 4, 5, 6 times. that is thing us we are not móaway but the growing, not just in numbers ■ç but active, in action, right? so, that is, that is a telling story. that is not people that are looking to hide or shrink away. they are hungry to be in this fight. >> people not hiding or shrinking away but also in hearing what you just said is it allies? they are coming out. >> yes >>and they are joining us and basically saying to their communities and to the country by your example, you are not alone. >> it is a family affair. teachers, listen, administrators, parents, aunties, we are out on the streets >> grandmas. >> supporting our family and we are only getting stronger. >> i will give you 20 seconds and we are already over time, give me your happy talk at the end of pride. >> i mean it is really a beautiful thing. i am very clear, people are worried because it ■çfelt like equality was inevitable for so long, now we are experiencing the backlash when you start to move forward your rights and power. it is happening not just because lbgtq is weak but powerful. we have to not lose sight of our power. 75 million decide on those rights. if we show up, we win, period, this is one of those moments, dark and scary in some places we can not lose sight of hope or our power. we are on the precipice of change. it really can, save and protect our rights for generations to come. >> what was that? period. >> period. >> do that again. [ laughter ] >> thank you very much for coming to this sunday slow. >> thank you, thank you >> ■çcoming up, the fall of affirmative action a year later. a look at the real life impact of the supreme court's decision on higher education. the president who is featured in a brand-new documentary about the issue, joins me next y about the issue, joins me next or with 4 powerful pain-fighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. for up to 8 hours of powerful relief. new advil targeted relief. so, what are you thinking? i'm thinking... 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(vo) you've had thyroid eye disease for a long time. and you've lived with the damage it caused. but even after all these years, restoration is still possible. learn how at tedhelp.com. . this weekend marks the . this weekend marks the one year mark of affirmative action. now, they look back at the events that led up to the landmark case and ■çits aftermath, let's take a look. >> they are under attack. >> if you get rid of affirmative action you are taking away racial justice. >> harvard is made great by the students and the students are made great by diversity. >> you can not remedy discrimination with now discrimination. >> when these schools are deciding who gets in they are deciding who will have access to money, who will have access to resources, who will have access to political power. >> this is the most important civil rights case of our era. >> joining me now, danielle holly who is also featured in. president holly welcome to the show. >> in the documentary you mention how after the civil rights act passed !your mom was able to go to stanford, your dad went to berkeley and ■çyou mentioned, i am quoting, no way forward for us in these educational spaces without affirmative action. you are also the first black woman to ever be appointed as the president of mount holio college. tells how it shaped your experience -- holyoke college. >> i wanted to tell it by my lens. my mom was precivil rights act. affirmative action was the throwing up of doors for many people, including women, asian americans, black americans, prior to the civil rights act it was not possible. affirmative action is race- conscious admission, equity and opportunity that is what the supreme court attacks when they qui9 last year. >> what is the impact of the overturning? >> it had a tremendous impact. the attack across the board on the idea of racial diversity. we see the attacks on di, we see it on other programs including the fearless first fund that supported black women in venture capital. all people should have a chance to rise to leadership. having admissions that consider race was an attempt to make sure that everyone in the united states could rise together. because, if we don't rise together we are going to parish together, affirmative action stood for that. that is why it is critical that we begin to talk about why we still must value racial diversity ■çin all spaces, but colleges and universities >> what do you hope people will takeaway? it. >> it is a complicated story. the supreme court attempted in this space as they did with roe v. wade as they are doing with chevron and they are trying to redefine america. the supreme court is making a grab for power. in so many areas including administration of colleges and universities. we have to stand for our values, that is what i takeaway. our values are important. we stand for racial diversity, equity, inclusion, all of the things that will help to produce the leaders of the future. >> you know, we are going to have to have you come ■çback to the show. you are also a lawyer and an expert on all of the things i wanted to ask you your thoughts on the immunity case but we don't have time. president of mount holyoke college, our executive producer is an alum. i know. we love her. thank you, all of the seven sisters we love our women's colleges. >> president, thank you. >> great to see you. and you can watch admissions granted tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. more of the sunday show after a quick break ay show after a quick break can neuriva support your brain health? mary, janet, hey!! 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