it's debate week so we have james here, too. 30 second spin room then we'll let you go. since i have you both here what's key for debate night, nicolle? >> i just think people need to understand this has never happened before. it's a huge television event. it's a huge political event. the conversations we have every day with our viewers and brilliant people like james are not things a lot of americans going to watch in the debate are going to be tracking day to day. it's hugely important. huge opportunities for both men and huge liabilities and risks for both men. it's why people watch sports. it's why football is one of the top 20 televised large events because anything can happen and can be brutal. this is the political version of a big and important consequential football game. >> yeah, absolutely. i'm going to get james' response, but as a courtesy because i know how hard you work, two hours every day, but i'm going to let you go and we'll do it on the program. nice to see you, nicolle. this is big campaign week. voters are actually turning out in primaries in three states today. you can hear our election music. those are in colorado, new york, and utah. it's also the countdown to that biden. trump debate we were just discussing with nicolle and that carville is here for. it's now 48 hours away. i can tell you the president's in camp david for days of prep, a place he and other presidents use for all kinds of intense work. we have some pictures here. those are actually i want to mention from his trip last summer. we didn't get cameras inside the current prep, but we do know they're simulating game day with the airplane hanger outfitted with lights and production equipment to create a mock debate stage, "the times" reports. and the experts are gaming out which attacks trump might launch. hillary clinton published an essay today reminding people you can't treat a trump face-off like in a normal debate because he throws out nonsense and blather. and she warned against this expectations game where trump doesn't literally light himself on friday thursday evening, clinton writes, some will say he was down right presidential. biden knows all about this challenge. he's the only candidate to debate trump and then go onto beat trump at the polls, something many republicans failed at in their primary debates with donald trump. and for all the talk about biden's age, this week on thursday, we are going to see the level of his experience because he has been doing this, campaigning and debating, since the age of 29. >> well, i think he can benefit more because he's going in as an underdog and nobody really expects, the voting public i don't think expects him to be sharp or quick. >> the truth of the matter is we can do three things very, very quickly. >> i am the least racist person in this room. stand back and standby. >> their ideas are old, and their ideas are bad. the united states economy has to be revitalized not just for the sake of america but for the sake of the whole world. >> it's irish. it is. we irish call it malarkey. look, the people in my neighborhood, they get it. they get it, and they know they've been getting the short end of the stick. >> joe, i ran because of you. i ran because of barack obama. >> we handed him a booming economy. he blew it out. >> it wasn't booming. >> he blew it out. >> he blew it. nicolle wallace just said something i i didn't know she was going to say it going into the evening here, but she said this is one of those times you reach everybody and you reach way past the usual d.c. beltway banter, and that is a dialogue and a banter that if you follow it sometimes seems to fly speck president biden about every little thing, and yet as you see over the years he's lost some debates, and he's won some debates. and he won the biggest one against then-incumbent president trump. and he does it sometimes by speaking like you just saw, clear, straightforward, well beyond the beltways and the politicos and out to the people. will he be able to do that to great effect on thursday night? america, we turn our eyes the legendary political strategist james carville with that question. and you look like you're out in america. welcome. tell us your thoughts about thursday. >> well, my thoughts about thursday is this. value new information above everything else. so everybody knows he's 34 felonies. not everybody knows that there's 26 women who have credibly accused him of sexual impropriety. not everybody knows the crime rate is dropping at an all-time rate. so value new information the most because these streeters are going to go in thinking i know everything about these two guys and you don't. it's the president's job to tell them new information about what he's done and new information about what trump has done in the past, and that's how i'm going to score it. who gets the best new information out there. >> let's go to experience, james. and i don't say that to bias you because you have a lot of experience. i'm not saying what age you are, but i've been talking to you for a little while now. you've got experience. and there's a superficialer conversation about age even though these men are both of a similar age, above typical retirement age. i have something special to to show you and our viewers we put together because biden draws on decades more experience than trump, and that might be one of the reasons he handles trump's bluster pretty well in their past debates. i'll put it like this. biden has actually done national debates in 2020 and 2012 and 2008 and 1988. that's just a few presidential and vp debates, and he had his senate debates. and we checked the archive for how he sounded after his very first senate camane. take a look at 29-year-old joe biden in 1974. >> there are an awful lot of damn fools in the congress and the senate and those who want to get there, but there's no way you can legislate against that. >> right. but -- but you think in the long run that the american people are going to put up their money being squandered on all sorts of wild political notions? >> the question is how long is the american public going to put up with a small group of men and organizations determining the political process by deciding who can run and who can't run? >> but, senator, aren't you living an example -- >> i am a 29-year-old odd ball. the only reason i was able to raise the money is i was able to have a national constituency to run for office. >> now, that self-described odd ball of course had just come into the senate, and show you one more thing for mr. carville and our viewers. biden over the years has jumped into many debates. >> the united states economy has to be revitalized not just for the sake of america but for the sake of the whole world. i do have a record, a significant accomplishment. i have a track record of being able to cross over and get things done. >> how does experience play out on the debate stage? >> i think everybody kind have gotten this impression. people are noted the experience. you can like the wisdom and experience or note the fact he's been around a long time. when the age question comes and it's one that president biden wants, say it is true i'm going to be 81. also i'd like to wish my opponent happy belated 78th birthday. people can evaluate our mental dexterity as it goes on. but you're right, a it's a concern people have. and just tell people you do, and you can judge me at 81 and him at 78 because not everybody realizes they are approximately the same age. to make that point -- >> it seems like these debates they can be harder than they look. you tune in and watch and think, okay, two guys are going back and forth. but it is a high stakes football game as nicolle said, and every little moment is parsed. and the fact joe biden has done this many times seemed to benefit him in 2020. trump's a talker, trump's loud. biden seemed to cut through. i can't say whether he won the debate or not, but i know he won the election that was held after that debate. >> well, actually i'm pretty heartened. i think from what i've read about his debate prep and what i know about the people brief him they're very knowledgeable, and they're very experienced. i think he's going to be very prepped. he has to wait for trump. trump is going to start where you take a drug test and he should say, yeah, well only if you take a rabies test. and trump is going to do something -- i'm going to introduce a new phrase into our vocabulary here. trump is going to shuck and jive. that's a fact. and just understand that. he's going to be talking about stuff he doesn't know, he's going to try to talk his way out of jams. he's going to blabber on and say nothing. and just be ready for that. and you don't need to respond to it. >> yeah. >> people can see it themselves, but you know all that's coming. you know that. >> it's so important what you said about how this is going to look because the biden campaign got some of the rules they wanted. basically, what they say is fair rules so you can hear everyone rather than trump's chaos effect. and so i want to remind, again, our viewers may be hip to this, but you talk to your friends and family and not everyone in our country is going to realize this is going to be one of first big debates in decades that doesn't have the audience and going to feel a little different. the biden folks thinks that helps them. and i want to show you how trump worked the other way. in 2016 jeb bush was a big name, but trump would use interruption and the audience to create a different environment. take a look. >> and he wants to be a tough guy. a lot of times you'll have -- and it doesn't work very well. >> how tough is it to take property from an elderly woman? >> let me talk. >> quiet. >> a lot of times. a lot of times -- that's all of his donors and special interests. that's what it is. and by the way, let me tell you we needed tickets. you can't get them. you know who has the tickets i'm talking about to the television audience, donors, special interests, the people that are putting up the money. it is. the rnc told us. we have all donors in the audience. and the reason they're not loving me -- the reason they're not -- excuse me. the reason they're not loving me is i don't want their money. i'm going to do the right thing for the american public. i don't want their money, i don't need their money, and i'm the only one up here who can say that. >> over time he managed to use the crowd any which way, and it sort of blunted what anyone else was saying. does it matter, james? and how should we prepare to watch something that's going to have no audience, no mic. when the other person is talking, trump will literally have his mic turned off. this is sort of like middle school-type rules. does that matter? will it make it more audible? will it do you think favor any candidate? >> first of all, trump agreed to all these. now he'll come in and say it's all stacked against me, but there's rules you agreed to. i can't believe he's doing this, but he is. and that's the big thing. and another big question we know abortion is coming up and in november it's on the ballot in florida. are you going to vote to expand voter abortion rights? or are you going to keep the six weeks ban enacted by the republican state legislature and the republican governor? that's a clean shot, all right? my dad used to be a champion boxer, and he taught me as a kid go in, throw a combo, and get the hell out. and that's my advice. go in, throw a combo, get out. let him go, but you want to punch, you know, very efficiently and very fairly. and he can't handt that, i promise you. and he'll start going off on a secret ballot or something like that. i think the rules are -- i think the president's setting this up, and trump is starting to say ah, well, he was a vegetable and now he's an experienced debater and he's been doing this for a long time. and fox is trying to give an explanation of how can the unwatered vegetable stand and we're going to see thursday night. i'm very confident that he's well briefed, and he'll be prepared. when you see the ball, you've just got to hit it. that simple. >> that makes sense. this is what i want to do. we have shortest break. it's 90 seconds. let's take a look at james full shot. talk about rocky mountain high. you're looking great out there. when we come back you're going to see more debate, steve bannon held accountable, and we're going to see young james in 90 seconds. e going to see young james in 90 seconds. ga. because there are places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ you know what's brilliant? 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>> oh, sure, i remember all of it. at least i didn't have sideburns back then. >> so the debate is the biggest moment other than maybe naming the running mate that actually gets everybody in. and nowadays people on their phones and you could not follow the news. when trump names a running mate you're going to look up and see who it is. he's trying to wrest control of the week maybe floating the announcement ahead of thursday's debate like north dakota doug burgum and senator j.d. vance. we should mention trump is not considering his own past vp mike pence who then outgoing president trump threatened for following the law after their loss. and we all remember the gallows for pence, not even the democrats but the political warfare against his own side and the violence of that day. james, what do you think about the running mate? will it matter? and does it say anything, you know, trump sometimes benefits politically from this lower and lower bar. does it say anything that he can't rerun the last ticket because he went to war with his own -- with his own vp? >> well, first thing i can tell you, the white house, has researched books on any potential running mate he has. and they'll have talking points within maybe three minutes of the time that trump announces it, i can promise you that. all we're going by is by who trump says he's going to pick for vice president. but what trump says has nothing to do with trump does. i can assure any person, vice presidential pick they're ready for it. you can do it late in the day, it doesn't matter. they're going to have this person, everything they ever said or did, it's going to be right down there in front of you. i can already tell you that's not going to work. pulling the rabbit ow of the hat at the last minute, everybody's ready for that. it won't work. >> yeah, in '16 when trump finished the general election he had steve bannon chairing the campaign. this cycle steve bannon is on a schedule where he will be in a federal prison on election day. he's speaking out here before reporting it, and he told "the guardian" we're the railhead of the big steel every day, every aspect of it. we take pride in it. there shouldn't be anybody me says in the trump campaign and republican party that doesn't believe in their bones the 2020 election was stolen. that is a false claim. if you don't believe that, he says, you miss the point of where we are and why we're here. james, what does it say about mr. bannon and the fate of his party -- he served in the trump white house -- that he will be incarcerated under this federal calender on election day. and he's demanding to be -- any position in the party you have to spew these lies about their past loss. >> well, he's going to have four months to contemplate everything, but i think whoever his cellmate is can make a case. you have to be in the cell and smell this guy, i think that's something out of some north korean torture chamber, but he's going to have -- he's going to have a lot of time to think about 2020 and past life and whatever the future holds because he's going to the pen tenchiary. he needs is a cell by himself because he's going to stink that jail up something fierce. >> there you go, james carville, clean mountain air giving us all the break downs. we'll be watching on thursday and love to check in with you again soon, sir. >> might be on the rocky mountain tonight but we'll see. >> we'll be in touch. james carville, thank you, sir. later on tonight we'll look at why joe biden and his secretary of state are looking at new ways to tap diplomacy around the world including the power of american culture. it's something special. you're only going to see it here. that's later tonight. but next, the new damning photos from the mar-a-lago search, and the evidence about trump's private concerns about his own liability. stay with us. private concerns an liability. stay with us for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. sup? 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- pickle! ah, these guys are intense. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right? when we're young, we're told anything is possible... ...but only a few of us go out and prove it. witness the greatness of anna hall on a connection worthy of gold: xfinity mobile. only xfinity gives you the most powerful mobile wifi network, with speeds up to a gig in millions of locations. and right now, xfinity internet customers can buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. get the fastest connection to paris with xfinity. this is a big week for several reasons. the supreme court's last decision days wednesday, thursday, and friday. we should note if the supreme court will green light jack smith's case against trump or tie it up in other delays. there's new reporting trump actually might have already known he broke espionage laws by hiding and allegedly stealing these classified documents in florida. abc reporting trump expressed concerns that returning them would become the basis for criminal liability, and that's from audio notes that abc got ahold of, which come from trump's own attorney. trump's current lawyers argue that the prosecutor should have any kind of limited or very narrow ability to use those notes. trump, though, according to the evidence asked, isn't it better if there are no documents? a hypothetical, that if you enacted would involve obstruction of justice like ensuring there are no documents or destroying them. that would be a new crime. any decent lawyer is not going to do that for their own self-interest. it also contradicts what trump has said. >> all i know is this. everything i did was right. we had the presidential records act, which i abided by 100%. i'm allowed to take these documents classified or not classified, and frankly, when i have them, they become unclassified. people think you have to go through a ritual. you don't. >> fact check, you do. so that's false. there's also brand new photographic evidence of more classified documents seized at the mar-a-lago search, and one photo you can see the top secret papers marked, and they're just in a box with other books. another shows papers marked confidential mixed in with golf shirts and what appears to be sporting attire. another box is marked "secret" and mixed in with other items. as for trump's new york conviction, well, that could be the only trial that is held and completed by the election day. but, again, by friday or perhaps into early next week but within a matter of days, the supreme court is going to tell the nation whether jack smith can actually do his job and no one is above the law or some other more convoluted outcome. we are tracking that. now, as felon trump struggles on the world stage and the world wonders whether he can be president again and we'll have this felon president, something really important is happening right inside our own state department, and we have two very special guests to get into that and why the biden administration is looking to build global power. you won't see this anywhere else, and it's next. you won't see this anywhere else, and it's next. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients. so, what are you thinking? 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one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn. it's true the secretary and i have worked together a long time, and i know -- i know that he has the background, the capacity needed to, quite frankly, lead the state department at a critical moment. >> the busiest person in president biden's cabinet might be tony blinken, the secretary of state dealing with the g7, ukraine war, middle east diplomacy, often reacting to problems -- that's what diplomats have to do. but the state department's now launching a more proactive project building international dialogue through music diplomacy, and appointing actual music ambassadors from jazz, rock, and hip hop to perform in other countries. you can see some of them here. blinken announcing the biden administration project on monday. >> all of us are here because we believe in the power of music. to communicate and to connect, music has a unique power in diplomacy, introducing others to our history, to our culture, creating ties that cross borders, even our governments. >> this is a big deal. now, traditional diplomacy is just contact between governments. public diplomacy, as they call it, is between different nations inpire populations, people to people. it can foster bonds between very different communities and populations even if their respective governments are adversaries. recently the kyiv symphony orchestra was pushing its ideas of peace and why it didn't think, according to many people in ukraine, that those peoples in ukraine and russia should even at war through a public concert. and it occurred as russian soldiers advanced on ukraine. ♪♪ some of that context is fresh in secretary blinken's mind as he makes this new effort. it grows out of something called the peace through music diplomacy act, a 2022 law that was backed by congressmen schiff, lee, and green. and that built on past diplomacy programs that tried to share music abroad. and the history here is actually pretty instructive. the 1950s harlem congressman harlem clayton powell jr. argued instead of doing the traditional thing where they played european classical music, the united states when it was abroad with various programs should actually showcase its own creations like jazz, and that could even bridge some of these tensions during the cold war. now, check this out. this is pretty interesting. here he is, that congressman with famed trumpeter dizzy gillaspie in 1966. >> we're going to shift the emphasis to jazz then send these over where they can reach the masses of the people of asia and africa. >> the weapon we will use is the cool line. >> that was then. tried today go past the iron curtain and reach through radio. today we have communications tools that go way beyond radio, and in this project you have the biden administration and his state department using one of the largest platforms in the world. they partnered with youtube for that announcement i just showed you from yesterday. youtube has over 100 million subscribers and reaches literally billions more people around the world and provides free access to music, something that blinken knows about as a rock and roll fan who actually plays guitar on the job sometimes. he used this appearance in ukraine to show solidarity by joining in a cover of "rocking in the free world," a nod to neil young's protest anthem which tweaked both soviet and u.s. policy. but this musical diplomacy can come directly from independent artists. it's not just politicians. springsteen performed for 300 fans in 1988 and was seen as a way artists can reach past the iron curtain and directly talk to and play music for those citizens over there, if not the soviet backed regime. now, those are many american examples, but you can go abroad and find them, too. bob marley's music united people across borders. freedom fighters west africa cited that music for advancing their cause and invited him to perform his song in zimbabwe. marley said his music was about and as much about being a revolutionary. >> with music. now, maybe it seems like a long way from springsteen and gillaspie and blinken and biden. this new crop taps the artists you sear here who spoke alongside the secretary of state and youtube music chief. >> music, of course, has the power to heal and unite us, transcend differences. >> throughout my life and career i've always believed in the power of music to change. >> this partnership is meant to empower and inspire. >> give voice to the voiceless, power to the powerless. peace like good music is not easy to achieve. >> let us meet these challenges head on, and let's do it with eloquence and grace like those that came before us. >> so to learn how this new project will work we're joined by those two people spearheading the initiative. one of those music ambassadors is the revolutionary hip hop group behind fight the power. chuck d has long worked on activism co-hosting a show with rachel maddow, campaigning with bernie sanders. and we're joined by global head of music at youtube, a founding figure in hip hop from running def jam to working with public enemy, which we discussed when he appeared on our music series. >> mariah carey, shania twain. >> public enemy, nickel back, the killers. it just goes on and on and on. what about it? what i needed to do was wake up every day and do the best i could, put it on the field. i showed up every single possible day. >> welcome, gentlemen. >> thank you. >> what's up? i'm wearing a different shirt today. >> yeah, you dress different than when you're with all the secretary of state and people. >> black until 2040, how about that? >> chuck, let's get into it. >> ari, the year's half over and yesterday was a tremendous event to basically say that, you know, culture brings human beings together puts our similarities, and differences to the side, and here we are in a situation where i think art governing itself and connecting human beings is stronger. we can't have industry have a narrative and we can't have government have a narrative. it's not for proper gender but for the music connecting us and this is what where we're at right now. >> let me ask each of you we saw jazz back in the day and now we see rock, hip hop. what does it mean to get that music that comes from the people out around the world in. >> i'm going to say 80 years ago which might have been looked at as a propaganda move. this is apolitical but everything is political, so it's very important to stay on top of it. today everybody is connected and leor is right there to tell you that there's billions of people on youtube that speak that language. >> tell us what you're doing. >> i would say it's surreal because i remember my father was a huge dixieland jazz fan, big jazz fan. and i actually got a chance to see some of the footage that our previous jazz ambassadors did as they were influencing their and flexing american culture around the world. and it gave me goose bumps think oh, my god, fast forward, i'm in the music business. i started in rap music and i have rappers are i have chuck d. with the secretary of state at the secretary of state's -- the treaty room talking about american soft power and trying to remind the world about how important it is culturally the influence of american art. and so it's surreal to me, and thank you for celebrating some good news because we need some good news. we need to remind the world that we have more in common than what separates us, and what better way than through music. >> your passion is so deep. you started like chuck from the ground up in this business. you're now at one of the largest companies in the world. we just heard chuck say, okay, it's apolitical, but it's not. google, which operates in so many countries, how does google see this? what is the benefit? what is the goal? >> well, the benefit is to work alongside of our government to promote peace and to promote american music and culture, just to show the world and to show about how incredible culture can cut through some of the differences. >> yeah. and chuck, if i can be a little idealistic, i'm curious how you feel on both sides of it. we mention you've been very political. you're not new to this. but you're a beloved artist, i feel okay saying that, and so you've been on both sides of it. when you're on that bernie sanders stage, it could be divisive. in the primary it's him and hillary. in the general it's him or biden or trump. when you're on that concert stage -- and i've seen you're in concert -- it's completely unified. and the people, age, country of origin, religion, racial diversity, everybody were together. >> it's accountability and responsibility and also people ain't stupid. however, everybody's attached with the gadgets, and so therefore we tell them don't be lazy on the optics. listen. there's detail in presentation, and you want to teach artists and performers how to be detailed. our first manager is leor. we go around the world, i start out my career being wakened up by dogs. shout out to all my public enemy brothers, all of them have made a public contribution to every way. we're getting woken up by dogs to play in west germany, in berlin and you've got kids, fans on the east side of berlin trying to get to the concert but there's a wall in between, the iron curtain. we've seen kendrick lamar recently bring the crypts and the bloods together. who wants to speak in the language of bullets and bombs. as an artist you've got to make things happen. i learned from the three bobs. bob marley, we just saw, bob dylan, and bob womack. >> i love that. before i let you out of here it is six months gone by, we're closer than six months, five months out to the election. the debate is coming this week. given all your politics, your past with rachel i did want to ask what you're keeping an eye on during the debate, and what do say to young people including some who are your fans who say i don't care about this year, there's some apathy about both candidates. i give that to you, chuck, artists, the debate, the election. >> shoot, you better pay attention. the cheapest price you better pay. >> tell us a lot of things about thunew project with the state department and youtube, appreciate it. great to have you guys. >> thank you. pay attention. really interesting. barack obama held back where bill barr and trump move forward, and we have a big update on a free speech case bridging those administrations next. a free speech case bridging those administrations next listen. horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] oh now we're torquin'! the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. we are people living with afib. ♪♪ and over 400,000 of us have left blood thinners behind... ...for life. we've cut our stroke risk. and said goodbye to our bleeding worry with the watchman implant. ♪♪ we may be getting older. but we've never squeezed more out of life. and we are just getting started. join us at watchman.com. 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embassies as a fugitive for years. he has been pursued by more than one country. now he's reached this plea deal in that open case where mentioned. and this is where merrick garland's doj. he will be released from britting prison and be a free man. he's showing up in a u.s. controlled island so he can formally plead. this is a place with u.s. jurisdiction where he'll plead guilty to illegally obtaining national security information. the punishment is five years in prison which covers what he's already served in britain. his wife speaking out about how the president could impact other reporters covered by american law. >> we will be seeking a pardon. the fact that there is a guilty plea under the espionage act in relation to obtaining and disclosing national defense information is obviously a very serious concern for journalists and national security journalists in general. >> the concern for other journalists. the precedent could be used on reporters. and that could include people who are doing very serious work that's more responsible than wikileaks. legal experts know the expansion of this case under trump's doj cut against speech rights. it could absolutely be used and misused if trump returns to office. the garland justice department basically found a way to de-escalate this controversial and open case. they didn't let julian assange completely off the hook, but they also did not endorse what had been a trump/barr effort to try to put assange on trial for literal eespionage. it is a fascinating kind of conclusion to this long-running legal saga and not one as i mentioned that people saw coming. in fact, in a different era, this might be even bigger news or controversial or right wing national security types might go on the attack. in the current era, it's not clear that this garland move will prove controversial at all. it is clearly a kind of middle ground. and we'll be right back with one more thing. ah, these guys are intense. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right? 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"the reidout" with joy reid starts now. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> i took the documents. i'm allowed to.

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