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that's this complicated. that's -- that's clear. there's -- you know, everyone's seen that. we also do have the fact that the 11th circuit, a conservative circuit she is in reversed her not once but twice. andhose were conservative judges who just thought she was absolutely bonkers in terms of her rulings. >> that was nbc news legal analyst and former federal prosecutor andrew weissmann yesterday weighing in on donald trump's classified documents case. those comments come as another questionable hearing was happening in judge aileen cannon's courtroom. also ahead what we're learning about president biden's debate strategy for dealing with two different versions of donald trump. plus, a long legal battle between the united states and wikileaks founder julian assange peers to be coming to an end. we'll go through the plea deal that was announced overnight. good morning and welcome to "way too early" on this tuesday, june 25th. i'm jonathan lemire. thanks for starting your day with us. and we'll begin this morning at camp david where president joe biden is in the middle of intense preparations for this week's highly anticipated debate against donald trump. three people familiar with the biden campaign's plans tell nbc news the president is studying how to best get under trump's skin in order to trigger his opponent at thursday night's debate in atlanta. if trump comes out more disciplined than he usually is, sources say that biden's goal will be to bring out rally trump. one way biden may try to do that, these people say, is by painting the former president as a loser for failing to win the 2020 election. at the same time a biden campaign official stresses there's, quote, a fine line to walk because they still want americans to come away with the impression that the president, president biden, is the adult in the room. biden is expected to stay at camp david for a fifth consecutive day. and he's scheduled to remain there up until the morning of the debate. as for trump's preparations, nbc reported last week the former president was having policy discussions with allies as opposed to formal debate prep sessions. and as we get closer to atlanta, trump is changing his tune what to expect from president biden. after spending years leading republicans and saying biden's mental fitness had dulled, trump is now talking him up, calling biden a worthy debater who destroyed paul ryan when the two men squared off in the 2012 vice presidential debate. now, of course, it is normal for candidates to raise expectations for their opponents ahead of the debate, but trump is adding an additional and unusual layer to that old tactic, insinuating with absolutely no evidence that biden could use performance enhancing drugs to help with his debate performance. trump's allies in congress are also now parroting that baseless claim. former white house doctor turned congressman ronny jackson has called for biden to take a drug test before and after the debate. but when asked if trump, who mind you is only three years younger than biden should also be tested, the congressman said it was a biden-specific concern. and republican congresswoman marionete miller meeks who's also an ophthalmologist had this to say yesterday. >> we anticipate he'll be on something and the response to the press has been to cover it up. we've seen that with karine jean pierre saying these are deep fakes, this is all misinformation. >> this is all completely untrue and deeply irresponsible and not the sort of thing you say, trump and his allies, if you're actually confident how your candidate is going to do in the debate. joining us now white house reporter for "the wall street journal," our friend ken thomas. ken did not take a drug test before appearing this morning. ken, good to see you today. let's just start with this nonsense. tell us how the biden campaign is responding to these accusations and take us behind the scenes and give us more sense how the president is preparing for thursday night. >> yeah, jonathan, they'll note this is not a new thing, this is something trump has brought up previously. we saw a similar line of argument around the "state of the union," and biden officials will say we saw how that turned out, and, you know, it shows that the president can perform on a big stage. i think they just see it as sort of a bizarre line and odd way to set expectations before the debate. i mean i'm old enough to remember, you know, when the george w. bush campaign said that john kerry was the greatest debater since cicero. those are the ways you tend to try to set expectations before the debate. in terms of the preparation i think, you know, right now we're told that bob bauer is, in fact, playing trump in debate prep, in mock sessions. it's a pretty expansive team who's helping the president. i was told brian dees, the former head of the economic counsel will be advising the president ahead of the messaging on the debate. they're trying to bring in experts who can work with him on ways to, you know, talk about the -- the administration's accomplishments. but also importantly i think they see this as a really important way of speaking about what voters would get in a second term. you know, that's not something that president biden has spent a lot of time on, you know, in terms of really painting what that picture would look like in a second term, and i think that's one of the big things that they're trying to accomplish in this debate. >> ken, you're right to point uta pretty big team with the president at camp david, which stands in stark contrast to the very limited one in 2020 because of covid. also, we should note donald trump has yet to make any cicero references. so both of these men on thursday are looking to win over a part of the electorate that, frankly, doesn't like either of them. and that's sort of the thinking from the biden campaign is have this debate early, really reinforce to americans this is your choice. you may not like it, but this is what you've got "a" or "b." and they're betting those voters eventually if they have to hold their nose to do it, will come back to president biden. how is the campaign trying to win those so-called double hater voters? >> i think with trump, i think the hope within his team is that he will stay disciplined and focused on the issues they think really resonate with people and will help them in this election, namely inflation, immigration, crime, issues like that that they think they can use to appeal to voters who just don't seem to be happy right now and have really gone -- grown weary of the entire political system. i think for biden's team it's about, you know, showing the contrast between his approach and trump's approach. and in some ways to allow trump to be trump on the debate stage. you know, as you say, they are preparing for, you know, various versions of trump, but i think that the biden team feels like if nothing else, if we see some bit of that first debate in 2020, that that's going to be really all a lot of these double haters will need. i was also listening to john heilemann's podcast yesterday. he had the former campaign chair, the former campaign manager, and she was saying that they found among moderates, independents, low information voters that these were voters who were all very much aware of the criminal conviction for trump and that they didn't feel like it was a rigged process, they thought it was relevant. and so i think that might be an area if biden brings up the criminal conviction, he's going to use it as a way to appeal those so-called double haters who have been turned off by that in particular. >> certainly we should expect to hear the words "convicted felon" from the stage thursday night. really great insight this morning from ken thomas, white house reporter for "the wall street journal." ken, thank you again. we'll talk to you very soon. a reminder nbc and msnbc will have full coverage of the dabait, which is hosted by cnn this thursday night. and i will be live in atlanta both thursday and friday mornings for "way too early" and "morning joe" to bring you complete coverage of president biden and former president trump go head to head. turning to other news now. the judge presiding over trump's classified documents case reprimanded a prosecutor from special counsel jack smith's office. this happened yesterday during a hearing on a proposed gag order for the former president. judge aileen cannon told the prosecutor, i don't appreciate your tone when the attorney appeared to get exasperated as she questioned the need to modify trump's conditions of release. smith's office has challenged those conditions over trump's false claims that fbi agents were prepared to kill him while they were carrying out a search warrant at his mar-a-lago estate back in 2022. the tense exchange came as the prosecutor was arguing judge cannon should bar trump from making more inflammatory statements about the fbi agents who worked on the investigation. the attorney later apologized and said he didn't come across as unprofessional. at the same time, judge cannon suggested that she was skeptical of the prosecutor's arguments that trump's comments could lead to violence by his supporters. right, because his comments have never led to violence from his supporters before. in the end, judge cannon, who was we should remind you appointed by trump, did not issue a ruling on the prosecutor's request for a gag order. instead she gave both sides until tomorrow to file additional evidence. and the supreme court is now wading into the fight over transgender rights. this fall justices will hear the biden administration's challenge to tennessee's ban on gender affirming care. the new state law bans minors from receiving hormone therapy or puberty blockers. meanwhile, we are, of course, still awaiting supreme court decisions on multiple hot button issues. there are 14 cases left to decide. 14 including donald trump's presidential immunity claim. rulings will be released tomorrow, thursday, and friday, as well as potentially next week. still ahead here on "way too early," a former trump organization employee says she witnessed donald trump make a joke years ago about the holocaust. we'll show you what she had to say about that. plus, what we're learning about a plea deal between wikileaks founder julian assange and the justice department. we'll dive into that as well as other stories and a check on sports and weather when we come right back. when we come right back ♪ ♪ [ grunts ] [ laughs ] ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit 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there. the synagogue's rabbi says all the properties are in established and legal communities. meanwhile, a former executive for the trump organization says donald trump once made a holocaust joke to his jewish employees. the revolution -- the revelation came sunday during ali velgs ae's interview with a woman named barbara rest. she left the trump organization in 1998 after working there for 18 years. she was asked about trump's bizarre rants during his rallies and whether that was common while she worked for him. take a look. >> it reminds me of a time whether we had just hired residential manager and donald was bragging along the executives, there are four of us, how great the guy was. and he was a real german and he was so neat and clean. and then he looked at a couple of our executives who happened to be jewish and said watch out for this guy, i remember the smile. everybody's was shocked. i couldn't believe he said that, but he was making a joke about the -- the nazi ovens and killing people. >> the ovens. also some breaking news from overnight. nbc news reports that wikileaks founder julian assange plans to plead guilty to a conspiracy charge this week. that's part of a plea deal with the u.s. justice department that will release assange from prison. he spent the last five years jailed in london. the u.s. government alleges that assange partnered with military intel analyst chelsea manning to disclose thousands of sensitive documents relating to u.s. involvement in middle eastern wars and other matters beginning back in 2009. a spokesperson for the national security council said in a statement that this was an independent decision made by the doj. the justice department expects assange to return to his home country of australia after the court proceedings. assange is in transit as we speak, and we will keep you posted. next up here, we'll have the latest on the growing conflict between israel and hezbollah including the biden administration's warning to the iran backed military. plus we'll go through the new reporting on the $100 million plan to restore abortion rights in america. that's all straight ahead. merica that's all straight ahead. put on the shelf like a porcelain doll. if you have postmenopausal osteoporosis and are at high risk for fracture, you can build new bone with evenity®. ask your doctor if you can do more than just slowing down bone loss with evenity®. want stronger bones? then build new bone; evenity® can help in just 12 months. evenity® is proven to reduce spine fracture risk by 73%. evenity® can increase risk of heart attack, stroke, or death from a cardiovascular problem. do not take evenity® if you have low blood calcium, or are allergic to it. serious allergic reactions and low blood calcium have occurred. tell your doctor about jaw bone problems, as they have been reported with evenity®. or about pain in your hip, groin, or thigh, as unusual thigh bone fractures have occurred. don't let a break put you on a 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>> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, there has to be some form. >> a grand jury in ohio is still weighting whether to indict a woman for miscarriage at home. >> and it's working out quite well actually. >> joining us now health care reporter on capitol hill for politico, alice miranda oleson. thanks for coming back to see us this morning. we just played that ad from the biden team taking direct aim at donald trump for his role in the reversal of roe v. wade. we should expect abortion rights, reproductive rights to be front and center at thursday night's debate. give us a sense right now at this pivotal moment in the campaign, how are both sides, the trump camp and the biden camp, talking about abortion? >> yeah, so i think that ad was a great example of how the biden campaign is talking about this issue. they are lifting up the stories of individual women who have suffered under the abortion bans that states have only been able to pass after roe v. wade was overturned. and they're tying that around the neck of donald trump directly, citing hi taking credit for it. really trying to hammer that direction in voters minds between what's going on the ground, how people are having to live under these abortion restrictions, and the policies that led that to be in place. i think, you know, you're seeing the trump side of things talk about how they believe this should be completely left to the states. they are sort of trying to scuttle concerns on the left and hopes on the right that there will be a push for some sort of federal abortion ban, which a lot of trump supporters want that to happen. but trump has said this should be completely left to the states. what democrats are trying to do in response is say, okay, you say this should be left to the states. here is what you own, then, everything that is happening in every state as a result of this. >> so, alice, your latest reporting spotlights a $100 million plan to try to restore reproductive rights in america, a coalition of groups working together. tell us more about it. >> sure. this is a new effort. it's a lot of the groups that have already been doing this work the whole time, but they're really trying to come together under one umbrella and really focus on the fight to restore federal protections. you know, this has been so much a state level fight over the last two years. you have all these ballot initiatives. you have a bunch more coming in november, and resources are being poured into those. but what these groups say is that focusing on that only leaves a lot of states behind. a lot of states don't have the ability to do a ballot initiative, and so they're saying without federal protections we're going to have a lot of people fall through the cracks. so they're gunning for restoring some sort of federal protections. what's interesting is they're not detailing exactly what they want to see. they want to remain flexible, you know, no matter what happens as a result of this election, no matter what court decisions might come down in this year or future years, they want to be able to sort of shift and adapt and fight for the strongest protections possible, you know, whether that's politically possible, legally possible, all of the above. >> so alice, lastly and briefly, it's beyond just abortion rights. it's also things like ivf, fears of contraception, democrats saying all of this is going to be on the ballot this november. how confident are they it's going to make a difference? >> i mean, i think the number of ads you're seeing focused on this issue show democrats are very confident these messages will make a difference, will resonate. since the moment roe v. wade was overturned two years ago, biden and many others have been hammering the message that this isn't just about abortion, that this impacts a lot of different forms of health care. like you said contraception, ivf. and we've seen that borne out. we've seen disruptions to actions to those things in various states as a result of abortion restrictions. so they're aware that it's -- ivf and contraception are even more popular than abortion particularly among conservatives, so they're trying to show this is having broader ripple effects. >> live for us from washington, health care reporter from capitol hill for politico, alice miranda olstein. next up here we'll go live to cnbc for an early look what's driving wall street after nasdaq saw its worst day since april. plus a chinese founded fast fashion retailer plans to go public in london. we'll dig into why the company couldn't file that paperwork here in the united states. that's all next when we come right back. ited states. that's all next when we come right back hi, i'm eileen. i live in vancouver, washington and i write mystery novels. as i was writing, i found that i just wasn't sharp and that doesn't work when you're writing a mystery and i knew i needed to do something so i started taking prevagen. i realized that i was much more clear, much sharper. i was remembering the details that i was supposed to. prevagen keeps my brain working right. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement. (man) mm, hey, honey. voltaren, looks like my to-do list grew. "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance," hm. i have a few minutes. i can do that now. oh, that fast? remember that colonial penn ad? i called and i got information. they sent the simple form i need to apply. all i do is fill it out and send it back. well, that sounds too easy! (man) give a little information, check a few boxes, sign my name, done. they don't ask about your health? (man) no health questions. -physical exam? -don't need one. it's colonial penn guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance. if you're between the ages of 50 and 85, your acceptance is guaranteed in most states, even if you're not in the best health. options start at $9.95 a month, 35 cents a day. once insured, your rate will never increase. a lifetime rate lock guarantees it. keep in mind, this is lifetime protection. as long as you pay your premiums, it's yours to keep. call for more information and the simple form you need to apply today. there's no obligation, and you'll receive a free beneficiary planner just for calling. time now for business, and for that let's bring in cnbc's silvia amaro who joins us live from london. good morning, silvia. so stock futures are up this morning after the nasdaq registered its worst day since april. what caused that drop? >> exactly. we still have a lot of pressure on the nasdaq particularly because of what happened to nvidia. their shares dropped about 7%, and it has lost the tag of being the most valuable company in the world. in terms of what we're looking at today, it's all about consumer confidence figures. they're due out 10:00 in the morning. on top of that we're also expecting to hear from three fed officials. yesterday maria daly said the fed must exhibit clarity when bringing down inflation numbers. the fed and the markets are trying to understand what's going to happen in terms of rate cuts this year. >> we'll certainly be watching that carefully. hitting some other stories now, a chinese fashion retailer giant has confidentiality filed for a public listing in london because it faces backlash here in the united states. tell us more about this. >> exactly. so one source confirmed to nbc shein has filed confidential paperwork to go ahead with a listing in london. as you mention this comes after the firm also did the same state side and faced a lot of backlash from some u.s. lawmakers. some of the concerns that have been raised include, for instance, forced labor, impact on the environment. now shein has denied basically any sort of wrongdoings, basically but there's a key question mark whether they'll be able to list in london perhaps before they even list state side. this would actually be good news for the london stock market, but ultimately the key question is whether the firm will manage to overcome some of these concerns exactly to go ahead with this listing. just a final note to say that the company has declined to comment on anything related to potential ipo, john. >> and lastly, "inside out 2" is making box office history following its second weekend in the theater, saving the u.s. box office for the summer. what's the latest? >> exactly. so some interesting numbers here. "inside out 2" has collected $100 million in ticket sales in its second weekend in cinemas. on top of that when you think about their global performance, they're also doing very well. they are on track to be the highest grossing film to date with $725 million globally as well. now, i don't know about you. i haven't been to the cinema recently, so i have not watched it. but clearly a lot of appetite here for inside 2. >> my youngest saw it on a field trip recently and really enjoyed it, so glad to see it doing well. cnbc's silvia amaro from london, thank you so much. still ahead here the united states is reportedly warning hezbollah that it won't stop an israeli attack. we'll dig into that message as tensions continue to rise along israel's northern border. "way too early" will be right back with that. ern border "way too early" will be right back with that ) vanilla and shea. 24/7 moisturization with vitamin b3. 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(♪♪) and enxtra for focus and clarity. centrum, powered by clinically studied ingredients. i thought i was sleeping ok... but i was waking up so tired. then i tried new zzzquil sleep nasal strips. their four—point lift design opens my nose for maximum air flow. so, i breathe better. and we both sleep better. and stay married. welcome back. as we turn now to news from overseas, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu appears to be walking back his remarks that he was going to reject the latest cease-fire proposal. on sunday netanyahu told an israeli media outlet that he was prepared to make a partial deal that would include the return of some hostages, adding that he would continue the war after a pause to, quote, complete the goal of eliminating hamas. his comment, however, contradicts the plan the white house has been pushing for, which calls for the release of all hostages and a permanent end to the gaza conflict. the remark also angered the families of the israeli hostages who called netanyahu's apparent rejection of the proposal a unprecedented national failure and a departure from the war's objectives. the israeli leader then tried to quell tensions by reassuring his parliament he is, in fact, committed to securing the cease-fire deal the u.s. supports. meanwhile, the united states is warning hezbollah it might not be able to stop an israeli attack in lebanon. that's according to a person familiar with the discussion who tells politico the u.s. held indirect talks with the iran-backed militia. the u.s. reportedly made it clear it would have to support israel if hezbollah retaliates. officials are hoping this message will get the group to scale back its current attacks, which have been increasing of late. indeed, hezbollah and israel have been trading fire almost every day since the war in gaza began. the clashes have intensified of late. joining us now former spokesperson for the u.s. mission to the united nations, hagar chemali. she also worked at the nsc and treasury department. let's talk about the fear, the fear that's been in place since october 7th that the war may expand beyond the borders of gaza. leb knowledge right now is front of mind in terms of concerns. what should we be watching in the coming days as to whether or not this conflict will explode. and if it does, what will that look like? >> sure. you know, i should add, jonathan, i'm not an alarmist. i'm usually quite calm in the middle east crises because i've managed so many of them. and the tensions between israel and hezbollah are very, very real right now. and if something is going to explode, it's going to blow up in the next few weeks or even sooner. and the reason i say that is because tensions have gotten to a boiling point. while it seems like a war of words, you've got grandiose statements coming between hezbollah's leader and israel cabinet leaders particularly far-right leaders where they're threatening war in a sense. thing is you've about 90,000 israeli families displaced from the war who want to return before the school year and the cabinet want them to return to because they feel the integrity of that territory near the northern border is now at risk are hezbollah pounding that area every day so close to the border. and so they want to send this message to hezbollah to stop once and for all. and it is true israel is an ally. the u.s. would absolutely come to israel's defense if they were to enter this war, and that's a very important message they're making right now, the u.s. administration because they're trying to tell hezbollah, listen, all drama you see, anything you see in terms of fighting or dirty laundry aired between biden and bibi, that means nothing if this happens. so hopefully that will be message to hezbollah to scale it back. >> we'll be watching to be sure. i want to get your reaction to news that broke in the last hour or so. israel's supreme court has ruled the military there must draft ultra-orthodox men as a part of a war effort. they have to serve in the military. and there's a sense here this is decision that could really endanger netanyahu's governing coalition. tell us why that is. why is this so important? >> sure. there are lots of things actually, a lot of factors that you're seeing that make bibi on shaky ground, and a lot of them is this one. for example, israel has registered a number of soldiers they've been using deployed in gaza. by the way, if this war turns into a two-front war or multi-front war, not only are the number of troops not enough but they're definitely going to have to pursue that draft, which is why a statement like this is so important now. is why a statement like this is so important now so this is on wn hand. the ning most important here is you have netanyahu facing criticism and opposition from everywhere right now. you have the hostage families angry hat him for walking back israel's remarks and positions on the cease-fire deal. and so at a certain point he's not going to be able to please everybody. he's not going to be able to get enough support from one side and from any one side at this point. >> and lastly and briefly, your reaction to his walk back about the cease-fire deal. >> yeah, that was entirely to placate his collapsed. the war cabinet, he undid the war cabinet last week after benny gantz walked away from it. netanyahu did away with it and far rye ministers now carry more clout. but i don't think that is going to work in netanyahu's favor. >> a lot to follow in the days ahead. we are so grateful you were here to help. former spokesperson for the united nations. thank you very much. up next, we will talk about the lessons we can draw from past debates as we look to thursday night in atlanta. coming up, "morning joe." white house press secretary karine jean-pierre will join the conversation as biden preps for his head-to-head. two-time golden globe winner david duchovny will be live in the studio to look at his new film, "reverse the curse." "morning joe" is moments away. o. and drops the risk of having a heart attack. do not take repatha if you are allergic to it. repatha can cause serious allergic reactions. signs include trouble breathing or swallowing or swelling of the face. most common side effects include runny nose, sore throat, common cold symptoms, flu or flu-like symptoms, back pain, high blood sugar, and redness, pain, or bruising at the injection site. talk to your doctor about repatha. (man) mm, hey, honey. looks like my to-do list grew. "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance," hm. i have a few minutes. i can do that now. oh, that fast? remember that colonial penn ad? i called and i got information. they sent the simple form i need to apply. all i do is fill it out and send it back. well, that sounds too easy! (man) give a little information, check a few boxes, sign my name, done. they don't ask about your health? (man) no health questions. -physical exam? -don't need one. it's colonial penn guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance. if you're between the ages of 50 and 85, your acceptance is guaranteed in most states, even if you're not in the best health. options start at $9.95 a month, 35 cents a day. once insured, your rate will never increase. a lifetime rate lock guarantees it. keep in mind, this is lifetime protection. as long as you pay your premiums, it's yours to keep. call for more information and the simple form you need to apply today. there's no obligation, and you'll receive a free beneficiary planner just for calling. i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent 's youth and inexperience. >> that was a moment during the 1984 presidential debate when ronald reagan was asked if at 73 he was too old to be president. as you can see, reagan's answer even got a laugh from his democratic opponent walter mondale. let's start with the history here. how much do debates tend to matter? >> well, there are three that changed history. 1960, john kennedy showed he was the equal of the two-term vice president richard nixon and the momentum began to shift to kennedy. 1976, gerald ford made a terrible mistake saying there was no russian domination of eastern europe. they say he is the statesman superior of this one term georgia governor jimmy carter and made it possible for carter to be elected. number three, 1980. reagan and jimmy carter debated ten days before the election. only one debate. big undecided. a lot of them were women. the undecided voters were telling pollsters we are worried that reagan is a war monker. reagan came in and gave a steady performance and looking charming and had a grandson an the last thing he wanted to do was take the nation to war and people were relatively convinced and a huge amount of undecided voters moved to reagan and gave him a landslide. >> this debate will look different from moment. there is not an audience. just the two men and the moderators and it's much earlier than normal. it's between two men who each served four years in the white house. give us your thoughts what a unique moment this will be. >> yes, two people that we know very well. and the question is whether this is going to be like the 2020 debate atmosphere between trump and joe biden, which was acrimonious and loud. i think it's like nixon and kennedy 1960 in a studio. no audience. no ability to grandstand. i think the big surprise is going to be, as i think you were saying earlier on the hour, is there going to be rally trump coming in bombastic or like his depositions on video in which he actually sounds like a rather quiet, rational business person. stay tuned. >> so the trump team is already sort of working the refs accusing the cnn anchors who are moderating the debate as biased. as the audience watches this on thursday, maybe not a lot of live fact checking and they have to sift through probably an avalanche of lies. >> this is going to be really hard because donald trump is known for saying things that are not true at rallies and on tv, even in presidential addresses when he was president. so you're giving him an hour and a half of tv time, at least maximum, including the candidates and the moderators he can use to get out falsehoods because he will get the last word. a change for joe biden and moderators to not let him use that time to pump falsehood in the bloodstream. >> who do you think has more riding on thursday night? trump or biden? >> i think they both do. this is almost a tied election within the margin of error. in the past, the distant past, you had one candidate coming in with a big margin, wanting to hold on to his lead. nothing like that. so each of these candidates have a big incentive to try to use this first debate to move the needle. >> all eyes will be on atlanta thursday night and we will have complete coverage here on msnbc. author and nbc news presidential historian, michael, thank you for joining us. "morning joe" starts right now on this busy tuesday morning. >> that is the most dubious thumb's up i've ever seen. that is the football player as he is being carted off the field. he is going to be okay, folks.

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