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MSNBCW Ayman June 9, 2024



begin this sunday with some breaking news overseas. israeli minister benny gantz has resigned leaving the israeli war cabinet without a singling centrist. he accused prime minister benjamin netanyahu of standing in the way of real victory and called for new election in israel this fall. last month, gantz publicly demanded that netanyahu lay out a plan for gaza's future after the war or else he and the opposition party would pull out of the coalition. yet that hue hasn't yet announce a plan after the war against hamas ends. this is the most significant act of protest within the israeli government since october 7th when the leaders of all the top political parties united to form an emergency government to prosecute the war in gaza. now without gantz a man many western and arab leaders considered a pragmatic and centrist influence, the question now becomes who will steer this ship? already one of israel's most reactionary figures is demanding a seat at the table. the minister of national security celebrated gantz's resignation today saying it is time to make brave decisions. the ceasefire and hostage deal currently in limbo and yet that hue preparing to address the united states congress, the direction of israel's war in gaza and beyond remains open question. later tonight we will take a deeper look at today's resignation and what lies ahead for israel and gaza. with israeli diplomat and former ambassador alan pinkus and senior fellow ethic council steven cook but back here to the united states. because tomorrow is going to be a big day for donald trump. first step to sentencing after being convicted of 34 felonies in his new york hush money cover-up trial. nbc news can exclusively report that trump is scheduled to sit for a virtual interview monday with a new new york city probation officer and he will do it from mar-a-lago we're told along with his tomorrow todd blanche. we are told the interviewer will be a woman. after finishing the interview, we're told the probation officer will prepare a report for presiding judge juan merchan and trump's sentencing is now scheduled as we know for july 11th. anywhere from probation to up to four years behind bars. the question tonight, how high are the stakes of trump's responses tomorrow? my colleague ari melber spoke with the former new york city commissioner of the department of corrections and probation. here's what he told him. >> can that report impact the sentence and can it potentially along with other factors, lead to a more serious sentence? >> it can. certainly it can. of course, you know, in new york city, 95% of the -- convictions are as a result of plea negotiations so the sentencing in most cases has been agreed upon but that's not the case here. >> all right, with us now former federal prosecutor and political legal affairs columnist and tara setmeyer senior advisor for the lincoln project and former gop communications director. great to have you both bus. nice to see you on set and usually speak to each other remotely. we love people in the studio. let's talk about tomorrow and what's at stake for donald trump and what you heard from the commissioner there about how if at all, it might actually impact one way or the other how this sentencing goes on july 11th. >> the judge really looks to that report to get unbiased information. in the sentencing, of course, you are going to have information that's presented by todd blanche and his team on behalf of trump. and you are also going get a lot of information presented by the district attorney's office. obviously in an adversarial system they're each going to be presenting their side of that but the judge is really going to be leaning on the probation officer to provide a neutral unbalanced perspective on donald trump. his history. his characteristics and all the factors the judge needs to consider when imposing sentence and of course the stakes are high because ultimately, donald trump doesn't want a sentence of incarceration and he doesn't want a sentence that's going to impede his you know, race for the white house which might be the only thing that stands between him and three more criminal trials. >> safe to say that donald trump has been given favorable measures throughout this proceeding. patience regarding the gag order violations and what he has done and how he's -- what he has said. there have been legal expert who say that having a probation interview remotely is highly unusual. yet one more example of the privilege that has been afforded to donald trump. that he do it out of state from his resort compound in florida that most people like me and you, probably wouldn't be afforded. what do you make of that? >> i agree with that. and i think it's an effort to try to not to interfere with his campaign i suppose. i actually think it's a mistake from his part from a purely legal perspective. i want my client to have a rapport with a probation officer. that slants one way or the other on the report and i think that's a mistake. not the first one that trump and his team have made. during the course of all of this but ultimately, yes, the junction mentioned for example when he was talking about the gag order, he was reluctant to jail trump because of its -- broader impact on the nation. so i think we're going to see a lot more of that from the judge in the weeks to come. >> look, you give some legal advice to todd blanche. >> tara, let me get your thoughts on this. you know trump frequently turned the trial into a circus with his antics both inside and outside the courtroom. do you think a virtual interview will actually prevent trump from acting out and do you think he may have any charm whatsoever virtually on the probation officer tomorrow? the person conducting the interview? >> well, maybe his lawyer can have the buzzer underneath to tell him you know, stop it when he starts to go off the rails. you know that's the benefit i guess and everybody knows that donald trump really cannot control himself. so his lawyers i mean, no disrespect to him about that. but it would have been a disaster. it's a woman probation officer presides. given donald trump's history, particularly with his terrible behavior toward women, the fact that he is -- has been civilly found liable for sexually assaulting e. jean carroll and contempt and then of course the long list of things that donald trump has done and said against women, it probably is not a good idea to be in-person with a woman probation officer. i don't think he's going to charm his way out of that. and you know, the idea though that we're even talking about this, i think is something that -- we have to start like -- take a step back. we're actually talking about a former president of the united states, going through the probation period, the presentencing period that like -- regular average everyday criminals go through. and that's what donald trump is now. except he's not average. he's unfortunately the republican nominee to be president and has a lead in some polling. and everyone is just supposed to be like oh, this is not a big deal. it's routine. not really. this is actually awful for the country. in that there are so many people that are still making excuses for donald trump's behavior. the fact that they haven't abandoned him because of the fact he's now a convicted felon. they're trying to understood mine the system as a result of that. i don't think all the bravado and the rhetoric he's been using at the rallies since the conviction, i don't think he's going to come into the probation interview with that. but if he does, well, i hope that the judge will finally make him be held accountable for his behavior because going after the judge the judge's family. the system, the jury, not showing any remorse or respect for the jury's ruling. we need to -- these are all aggravating factors and he knows that. that -- you or me, we'd be in jail by now. we'll see what happens but i don't see how this helps him in any way but it's donald trump. he thinks he's his own best advocate. >> it's hard to imagine trump being charming let alone virtually. let me ask you about this conspiracy theory and we certainly know that trump and his accolytes love a conspiracy theory. on judge merchan on friday, i believe flagged this to the prosecution and defense about a comment that was made on facebook by someone who was claiming to be a cousin to one of the jurors. saying that trump was going to be convicted ahead of the verdict. of course, the claim has since been debunked. it came from a facebook troll. but that's not going to stop trump and as i said his accolytes from running with this to attack the judge in the process. take a listen to this. >> was the mix in from the beginning? is this cause for a mistrial? uh-oh, cause for mistrial. if that's not cause a mistrial, i don't know what is. >> i don't know what it is either but here we are. what do you think of how sean hannity's running with this and just lay it down for us, lay the law for us. >> i mean, it's not serious. right? when you look at the facebook account that made that post, in the bio for that account it says it's crap poster. i don't know. a nonoffensive way the say that. but essentially the person is -- come forward and admitted that's just a trolling. realistically, is that something the judge should have brought to the party's attention? of course. sit something that people should have taken a look at? of course. but now that it's debunked, promoting that and trying to mislead people -- >> waited a little bit and should the judge have said let's look at whether this is real before coming out publicly with it? >> i think what the judge is trying to do is get out ahead of things and basically show he is not putting a thumb in the scale one way or the other. >> tara, i'm sure you are shocked because i'm sure it will be featured very prominently in many of his campaign stops for the next several months. it doesn't matter that it's been debunked and how many times we're going to play any clips that show it's not true. it's true in their world now. >> they live in an alternative universe. so as the universe we don't live in and it's a truth and fact free universe. maga world. you know, but -- he has not already started doing this at rallies just doing that. it started on the sunday shows today. his -- his surrogates were out there repeating this nonsense about how oh there's probably going to be a mistrial now. because of misconduct by this judge. and blah, blah ambulance, they continue to repeat this over and over and over again. but the only people who buy this are the 90% who already believe donald trump and think they're going to vote for him. it's the so 10% of republicans and the others are they really looking at this case and saying yeah, no, it's not a big deal. i don't think so. so trump and his accolytes can continue is this but the average american independent modern voters are sick of it and not comfortable with voting for a convicted felon. >> i was going to sayed if you do,ed if you don't. comes out and says something about it. they use it and say look the judge is even saying now that there's something shady about here otherwise the judge wouldn't have said it. so. as i said here we are. tara, thank you so much. and please stick around, we have more to talk to you about next up. luxury trips exclusive clubs and a brewing storm about ethics at the nation's highest court. 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(♪♪) shingles. the rash can feel like an intense burning sensation that can last for weeks. shingles could disrupt work and time with family. over 50? the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. don't wait. ask your doctor about shingles today. all right, once again our country's highest court is proving it has the lowest ethical standards on friday financial disclosures for eight of the supreme court's nine justices went public. of note, a new disclosure form from justice clarence thomas for the first time acknowledging he accepted luxury travel from crow and amending his 2019 filing. how convenient. in july of that year, thomas and his wife accompanied the crows to bali, end these yea then just days later, the justice reclined with crow yet again this time at the private exclusive all male club bohemian grove in california. the disclosure indicates the two trips were quote inadvertently omitted. in his disclosure propublica's bombshell reporting on the pair's relationship last year chronicled a far more extensive trip one that included island hopping a superyacht. as for the trip to the grove, while thomas reported lodging expenses in that disclosure, he didn't include any of the travel costs. propublica's report indicated thomas had traveled on crow's private jet to the club. these new trips make up just a small part of the millions of dollars worth of gifts accepted by thomas during his time on the bench. according to a new report from a judicial watchdog group thomas raked in more than an estimated $4 million a staggering total, that dwarfs all of the colleagues combined. and this is hardly the only scandal gripping the supreme court these days. as you know we've been reporting on this program justice alito still refuses to recuse himself from cases involving donald trump after reports surfaced he flew flags at his residence that are commonly associated with the ex- president's supporters. just as thomas as refuses to step down from the cases despite his wife's involvement in the january 6th attempt to overthrow the elections. for any lower court judge, this kind of behavior would be up excusable but since the new code of conduct last year lacks any enforcement mechanism. the justices can simply carry on as they choose without any consequence. the dismal state of the nation's highest court sparked outrage among other members of the judiciary including former federal judge david tatal who revealed stepped down from the u.s. court of appeals for the d.c. circuit back in january. he did so in part because he was tired of having his work reviewed quote, by supreme court that seemed to hold in such low regard the principles to which i have dedicated many life. he added quote it was one thing to follow rulings i believed were wrong when they resulted from a judicial process i respected and it was quite another to be bound by the decisions of an institution i barely recognize. renato mariotti is back with me and is joseph sterns. renato, i'll start with you. to kind of put this in perspective for the viewers and in context thomas' goes pay over the last 20 years was just slightly more than what he raked in from the billionaire buddies. what's your reaction to that latest disclosure? >> that's lot of gifts. no one has given me $4 million worth of gifts. on its face. >> do you have hat of billionaire friends? >> owe. certainly not going to give me $4 million. that's for sure. they expect lot of legal services in exchange. but in all seriousness, you know, it raises serious questions about the court and you started this segment by talking about how the supreme court really is in many ways the lowest ethical standards. the point you are making by standards about standards is in terms of rules and enforcement mechanisms. this is what the point you are trying to make. i think that's right on target. and i think the biggest issue is that word that you and i have used enforcement. you know, is that old -- romans saying who watches the watchers? and i think for the supreme court justices, they're the ones who make those decisions for themselves. alito decides whether or not he refuses. justice thomas decide what do report or not to report on the disclosure forms. and if there's an inadventn't mistake there's no real consequence for that and really it puts osteology in the position where -- there's nothing to that really can be done easily about it. and impeachment and removal is not possible given the state of the united states' senate. this is something that needs and deserves more attention but doesn't have an easy solution; >> yeah, you know, mark, to renato's point. you have the other disclosessiers including justice ketanji brown jackson's nearly $4,000 concert tickets from beyonce and book advances for several justices, are those disclosures for those justices pretty normal? i mean explain it to us because for me at least, that could be wrong, there's two components to this. one is the receiving of gifts like concert tickets, certainly debatable whether that's appropriate or not. but the other thing is who's giving you the ticket and for what advantage right? like in this case, with the vacations, clarence thomas is receiving vacations from a guy who has an interest in the cases that are appearing before the supreme court. very clearly ideological cases. not the same for beyonce. >> yeah, so first you know, there can not be a different standard for the conservative justice and the liberal justices. if the conservative justices can accept these extraordinary and lavish gifts from mega donors, we really cannot tell the liberal justices you can't receive beyonce tickets. or a bouquet from oprah as justice jackson reported last year or relatively small ball thing that is the liberal justices occasionally report. i think that in a perfect world, you know, judges would say no gifts period. but i want to clarify, this is really important, that the laws here and there's both a federal statute and the supreme court's own sort of fake ethics guidelines. but the federal statute only requires disclosures. it says the justices can accept gifts but they have to disclose them and what was so profoundly troubling with justice thomas is that he for years, for decades, in fact, was accepting these gifts from harlan crow and other billionaires in absolute secrecy. he flouted the law and he refused to report them and he defied congress' mandate. and that goes straight to your point about how the public has a right to know who is giving these gifts to the justices. because you know what? when justice jackson was subpoenaed want the beyonce tickets she issued a statement straight away. she said she was crazy in love with beyonce and then asked who isn't? she had

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