down. the united states and nato and a coalition of more than 50 countries standing strong with ukraine, we will not walk away. >> that was president joe biden pledging not to walk away from defending ukraine as he commemorated the 80th anniversary of d-day. in this next hour biden will meet with ukraine wherein president volodymyr zelenskyy in paris amid russia's ongoing aggression and tensions over the pace of military aid, and biden then later delivering a major speech on democracy. plus we now have a date when israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu will address congress as a growing number of democrats and the biden administration have become critical of israel's ongoing handling of the war. and steve bannon has been ordered to report to prison to serve his contempt of congress sentence. we'll discuss why his lawyer brew up over the ruling and how bannon himself responded. good morning and welcome to "way too early" on this friday, june 7th. folks, we made it to friday. i'm jonathan lemire. thanks for starting your day with us. we will, of course, today continue to follow president biden's overseas trip to france where in just a couple hours he is set to meet with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy in paris. following that meeting, president biden will return to normandy where he will visit the american cemetery there and then deliver remarks at the famed point to hawk cliffs. the speech today is expected to focus on the sacrifices made by u.s. soldiers during an existential fight between a dictatorship and freedom. today's events followed yesterday's proceedings honoring the 80th anniversary of d-day, where the president spoke about the importance of standing by ukraine and standing up to strongmen. >> the autocrats of the world are watching closely to see what happens in ukraine, to see if we let this illegal aggression go unchecked. were we to do that, it means we'd be forgetting what happened here on these hallowed beaches. >> while president biden didn't mention donald trump by name yesterday in normandy, his campaign did release three new as that say the former president is unfit for office. >> a good commander in chief is someone who gives a [ bleep ]. i served in the united states marine corp. >> i served from the 1990s into 2014. >> i was a navy pilot for eight years. >> it's the first time i'm shaking the hands of a president of the united states. it was pretty impactful to me to see an individual that supports troops not just on the battlefield but when we return home. zbhp i see a man in joe biden who accepts accountability and responsibility, and when i see his predecessor donald trump i see a man only in this for himself. >> who criticizes veterans, who doesn't see it as important for him to go to the funeral. >> donald trump has zero accountability in his life. >> i think the election is the difference between authoritarianism. >> i i come to see a president that cares about maintaining democracy. >> donald trump is not fit to be commander in chief. he's not fit to lead a squad, and he's definitely not fit to be the president of the united states. >> we're going to hear from president biden later today delivering a major speech about the need to defend democracy, and there will be implicit contrasts just like that painting his predecessor as a danger to democracy at home and abroad. meanwhile, the president's meeting today with ukrainian president zelenskyy comes as the united states announced a new round of military aid for the war torn country. according to associated press the new $225 mimmian aid package includes ammunition that kyiv's forces could use to strike threats inside russia in order to defend the ukrainian city of kharkiv. last week the president shifted his position and gave ukraine permission to use u.s. supplied weapons to strike targets inside russia that are supporting moscow's offensive in kharkiv. staying overseas now but turning to the middle east. the leader of hamas says he'll only agree to the latest cease-fire proposal if israel commits to permanently ending the war in gaza. the statement was made in response to the three-phased plan that president biden publicly unveiled a week ago. under this proposal phase two would be an end to the war, which is a sticking point for israel. far-right members of israel's government say the conflict can only end once hamas is eradicated, a goal u.s. officials feel it truly impossible. meanwhile, dozens of people including children were killed in an israeli air strike at a united nations school in gaza. it happened overnight thursday. the israeli military says it was targeting a hamas compound that was embedded inside the school. the idf claims about 30 terrorists were staying in classrooms, using it as some sort of a base. the strike, however, is facing international criticism as gazan health officials say at least 40 people were killed. israel so far has only released the names of the nine terrorists that it says died in that attack. meanwhile, the united states says it will wait and see on what information israel released about the strike before considering any action. the state department says it expects the idf to be fully transparent. this as "the washington post" reports that a u.s.-made bomb was used in the strike and coming just a week or so after that attack on a tent city in gaza killed dozens of civilians including children. additionally, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu will come to the united states capitol next month. according to punch bowl netanyahu is now slated to address congress on july 24th. all four leaders of congress issued the invitation last month. several democrats in the house and senate have said they'll boycott the speech in protest to netanyahu's handling of the war in gaza. meanwhile, president biden addressed israel's war with hamas during an interview with abc news yesterday that he taped in normandy. biden says he believes netanyahu has acknowledged concerns from the white house, pointing to the way that israel has adjusted its strategy involving rafah. >> is benjamin netanyahu listening to you? >> i think he's listening to me. they were going to run to rafah full boor, invade all of rafah, take it out, move with full force. they haven't done that, and what they've done is agreed to a significant agreement that if, in fact, and look it's being backed by egypt and backed by the saudis, being backed by almost -- we'll see this is a very difficult time. >> still ahead new polling shows just how close the presidential race is between president biden and donald trump. we're going to dig into those numbers and the states that could make the biggest difference. plus, we'll bring you the latest from hunter biden's federal gun trial following emotional testimony from his former romantic partner and widow of his brother, beau. those stories and a check on sports and weather when we come right back. sports and weather when we come right back ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. this isn't charmin! no wonder i don't feel as clean. here's charmin ultra strong. ahhh! my bottom's been saved! with its diamond weave texture, charmin ultra strong cleans better with fewer sheets and less effort. enjoy the go with charmin. a year after a heart attack, mike's feeling like himself again. and less effort. but even though time has passed, his risk of a second attack hasn't. mike is still living in the red. with a very high risk of another heart attack or stroke. he doesn't know with his risk factors his ldl-c (bad cholesterol) is still too high - the recommended level is below 55. are you living in the red? get in the know. learn how to get a free ldl-c test at attackheartdisease.com. welcome back. to politics now. donald trump returned to the campaign trail yesterday for the first time since being convicted of 34 felonies last week. he was in phoenix, arizona, a state trump had not visited since 2022. there the former president focused more on the past than the future, complaining about all the injustices he claims have been inflicted on him over the years. >> i just went through a rigged trial in new york. nobody's ever seen because they know it was rigged. because it actually was rigged the last time. i will tell you that. they said, no, please don't say that. i did much better than i did in 2016. we have millions more votes but a lot of bad things happened. the impeachment hoax number one, impeachment hoax number two. everything's all hoax. >> just about all of that is not true. trump will be ipnev this wkd. meanwhile president biden's team has hired a republican operative in a attempt to sway voters. weatherford, a staunch critic of trump and previously served as the chief of staff to former republican congressman adam kinzinger, himself a staunch critic of trump. the move comes after the biden campaign launched an ad back in april appealing to nikki haley's supporters. joining us now white house politics reporter for bloomberg, christian hall. good morning, christian. let's talk about trump's return to the trail first and foremost. there's actually a school in the biden camp trump in a way was shielded since he say on the trial. now he's back out in public and people are listening to him that could be bad for trump, that he'll say things americans don't agree with, and i think that will be a big part of the debate in a few weeks. give us a sense how the event went, and what is the trump strategy for putting their guy back on the campaign trail? >> well, i think we saw at the event yesterday what trump is really going to try to focus on is the border, right? republicans and trump alike really see that the border crossings -- historic border crossings that are happening right now are very unpopular with a lot of americans, so i think what we're going to see trump do out on the campaign trail over the next few months is really hone in on what's going on the border. we saw he really shot down president biden's executive order to kind of sway illegal border crossings, so i think the trump campaign is banking on immigration as a key issue for voters ahead of november's election. >> and what's the sense there as to the impact of the hush money conviction particularly on whether it's sort of undecided or maybe waffling republicans, those nikki haley republicans, for instance, that maybe don't like either person and now we're debating what to do. what's the latest how the biden team is trying to take advantage to reach them? >> yeah, i think what we're going to see biden, the campaign do is really talk specifically to these voters and constantly remind them of why it is imperative that they vote for his campaign. they're going to try to paint trump as a criminal, right? they're going to try to paint him as extreme. i think we're seeing biden right now while he's abroad he's really talking about how the trump administration would be a threat to democracy. i think all of these things are going to be central to the biden campaign and president joe biden. he's going to paint himself as i am not trump, i am the same, you know, candidate so you should get behind me. >> a lastly, christian, give us an update on trump's vp surge. he certainly seems to be enjoying the drama. give us an update as to where things stand. >> well, i think things are certainly starting to heat up. we heard that a lot of the candidates have submitted documents, that the potential candidates trump is looking at. i also think that it's notable that a lot of the people he's considering have connections to capitol hill, right? i think it just shows how much donald trump has influenced what's happening up there in congress right now, so things are definitely heating up, but there's no rush for trump to get ahead and, you know, announce a candidate. he is able to have all of these people go out as surrogates for him on the campaign trail, act as fund raisers, so there's really no rush for him right now to choose someone. >> all right, white house politics reporter for bloomberg, christian hall, thank you for joining us this morning. meanwhile, four new polls participate a picture of a very close election between president biden and donald trump, but a cup of surprising states possibly in play. according to the latest fox news survey, trump leads biden by just 4 points in florida, 50 to 46 among registered voters. although that margin is similar to trump's three point victory back in 2020, most experts have viewed the sunshine state as getting even redder since then, though the presence of some abortion restrictions could be factoring in there. meanwhile, this even more surprising. in virginia, a state that biden won by more than 10 points in 2020 and truthfully hasn't been in play for long for quite some time, this one fox news poll, anyway, shows biden and trump are in a dead heat, 48-all. not quite sure i believe that, but something to watch. the survey also finds trump leading biden by 5 points in nevada 50-45 and by 5 points in arizona, 50-46. we should note, though, that the results from all four of those states are within the margin of error. we have also seen margeps in a couple states close even further in the wake of a conviction, dead heats, pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, and a few other battlegrounds. next up we'll turn to sports with highlights from game one of the nba finals as the boston celtics put on a show at home with the help of one of their stars making a significant comeback from injury. plus we'll tell you about the women's title match in the french open. that's been set with the reigning champion poised to make it three in a row. we'll have those stories and a check on the weekend forecast when we come right back. foreca when we come right back. you go, but torque gets you going. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] oh now we're torquin'! the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. new mr. clean ultra foamy magic eraser? with the scrubbing power of magic eraser and the cleaning power of dawn. watch it make soap scum here... disappear... and sprays can leave grime like that ultra foamy melts it on contact. magic. new ultra foamy magic eraser. missing out on the things you love because of asthma? get back to better breathing with fasenra, an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra is not for sudden 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[♪♪] how you feel can be affected by the bacteria in your gut. a new toothpaste from try new align probiotic bloating relief plus food digestion. it contains a probiotic to help relieve occasional bloating, plus vitamin b12 to aid digestion. try align probiotic. are you still struggling with your bra? it's time for you to try knix. makers of the world's comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com from charlotte, he's been there leading score in the playoffs. what a season he's had. goes inside. oh, what a slam from jalen brown. >> let's go. boston's jalen brown with a huge dunk between defenders in the second quarter, good for two of his team high 22 points as the celtics simply blew out the dallas mavericks in the nba finals last night. the celts led by as many as 29 in the first half with six players scoring in double digits on the night. that includes the significant return of porzingis. he put up 20 off the bench in a strong return on the court after he missed more than a month with a calf injury. the celtics defense was smothering and a rough outing for kyrie irving held with just 12 points and met with a repeated course of boos by the boston crowd during his introduction every time he touched the ball. luka had 30 but really to work for it. game two in boston. this series, though, a long way from over. the celtics have a way of taking the foot off the gas after they have some success, so i expect a much closer game two. we turn now to paris where the women's french open final is set. two-time defending champion swiatek will try for her fourth title in five years. third seated american coco gauff was not quite up for this one. she lost in paris to 20 with that straight set victy over goff in yesterday's semifinal. and swiiatek will face paolini. two semifinal contests today will decide the sunday men's time, second seated jannik center followed by will zrerev followed by casper ruud. to the nl now. the stanley cup finals begin tomorrow night, game one florida panthers hosting the edmonton oilers. i'm rooting for edmonton. we turn now to the softball diamond in oklahoma city. the sooners are ncaa champions for the fourth year in a row. they slugged their way to victory for a two game sweep. confwrats to oklahoma again. now to major league baseball. in the bronx the yankees continued their absolute dominance of the minnesota twins, completing a season sweep with an 8-5 victory last night for the team's eighth straight win. what can you count on, death, taxes, the yankees beating the twins. but new york may have suffered a significant loss last night. star slugger juan soto exited the game with left forearm discovery. it's not clear yet if soto will need to miss any time. we will keep you posted. time now for the weather and let's to meteorologist angie lassman for the forecast. i'm happy to say, angie, the weekend forecast. >> we are so close. i know you're thrilled about that. folks out west you should be thrilled about it, too, because as we get closer to the weekend, specifically, the end of the weekend we're going to see a bit of relief for you because you've been dealing with all that heat. 20 million people under heat alerts. still going to see triple digit temperatures across much of this region, potentially a couple of records today. by tomorrow a little better with some of these numbers coming in more than they should be this time of year. specifically in florida where we could see record breaking heat there. temperatures not in the triple digits but mid-90s in june in florida, that pill feel like the triple digits and really uncomfortable for folks there in tallahassee. we're going to see really warm things for our friends in florida early next week. a cup of showers spinning in parts of the north east. those will be unsettled and do have showers across parts of the central plains that can become strong to severe, and that will be something to watch if you live near kansas city. by tomorrow, though, from michigan basically to missouri, but not looking a whole lot in the way of severe weather, but some showers and thunderstorms will be possible and a couple of still lingering showers across parts of new england for your saturday plans. otherwise folks along the east coast will see nicer and nor comfortable conditions. it's been a little muggy for them over the past couple of days. >> that's good because the weekend is nothing but baseball and soccer games for the kids. still ahead here much more on president biden's overseas trip and his upcoming meeting with ukraine wherein president zelenskyy. we'll be right back with that. t zelenskyy. we'll be right back with that. help make trading feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. e*trade from morgan stanley with powerful, easy-to-use tools, power e*trade makes 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reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. gallbladder problems may occur. tell your provider about vision problems or changes. taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase low blood sugar risk. side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. living with type 2 diabetes? ask about the power of 3 with ozempic®. welcome back to "way too early." it is coming up on 5:30 a.m. here on the east coast, 2:30 a.m. out west on this friday morning. i'm jonathan lemire. thanks for being with us. as we mentioned earlier in the show on the side lines of all the d-day anniversary events in france, president biden is expected to meet with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy this morning in paris. it comes as the united states announced a new round of military aid for the war torn country. according to the ap the new $225 million aid package includes ammunition that kyiv's forces could use to strike threats inside russia. and joining us now senior coalitions advisor for concerned veterans for america, retired master sergeant jason beardly. so good to see you this morning. let's start there with this decision in the last week or so. president biden reversing course and now allowing ukraine to use u.s.-made weapons to strike inside russia. we should note not moscow, nothing deep inside, but military targets that could be used for the russians to attack kharkiv. give us your take. was that the right thing to do? >> well, we have been very concerned about this. i know veterans that i represent, concerned vetdrenes for america watch this closely, and we're worried about escalation. this is the type of thing that can lead to further escalation, so we're balancing every one of our commitments with ukraine, and it's hard to watch and authorizing further and further incrementallism along the way what can be a difficult standoff against the nuclear arsenal russia has. so my hopes are he's going to use this visit to really enforce the multinational nato alliance and push for some of the negotiated settlement that has to be the end of this. >> well, it seems like neither zelenskyy or frankly nor putin are ready to come to the table just yet. let's talk about that alliance. obviously we heard from president biden yesterday at d-day reaffirming america's commitment to his friends saying more or less we were here 80 years ago, we'll keep being there for you. that's in doubt if donald trump were to return to office this fall. what's your sense of the state of the nato alliance, particularly our european friends as they watch nchb's elections approach? >> well, i'll be frank. i was in the trump administration as a senior advisor, and even though the rhetoric was sometimes a little hot, what we saw was a strengthening of nato. we've seen more of an effort to make their commitments to the financial burden so that the united states is not the only one bearing the burden of european defense. in the last several years they've really come around to a strengthening position. so i think some of that rhetoric has served to become a stronger alliance. remember it's 80 years and you said this starts off as a defensive alliance. and here we are now authorizing proactive offensive strikes into a country that we are not at war with. so there's a lot of cautionary tales inside this, but, again, veterans who are proud of our forefathers who got off the boat and stepped into blistering beaches with gunfire, pouring down on them are very concerned about how we do we limit our involvement while also pushing for the right solutions? >> and lastly, give us a sense if you will what this anniversary means to you and what you hope to hear from the president as he's going to return and suggest the battle for democracy is one not just 80 years old but news today. >> being a combat veteran i look at this as people who got off that boat had the courage to do that knowing they were unlikely to make it. it wasn't for democracy, it wasn't for tyranny. it wasn't for some grand goal, but when you're a service member serving the flag of this great country of the united states of america, it breaks your heart when you see men forged in the fire of combat. but what it also does is it gives you one of the greatest appreciations you could have for one of the greatest nations in the world. i'm humbled by those who went before us, and hopefully it will live up to their standards, but we honor that, and what i hope to hear from president biden is something along those lines. >> all right, tretired master sergeant jason beardly, thank you for being with us and thank you for your service. next up here we'll go live to cnbc for an early look what's driving wall street as investors brace for the may jobs report. we'll be right back with that. sup? -who are you? i'm your inner child. get in. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] listen. horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. ♪ ♪ 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goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. time now for business, and for that let's bring in cnbc's karen cho who joins us live from london. good morning, karen. all three of the major averages are on pace for what appears to be a winning week. how does wall street appear to be shaping up this friday? >> jonathan, let's look under the hood because the big thing we're seeing being trade this week is a.i. because the market seems to have run out of room when it comes to trading around monetary policy, which is why today such a big event for markets. we're counting down before the market opened and as you can see futures a little bit tentative. the bureau of labor statistics is expected to report the u.s. economy added 195,000 jobs last month. this will be a slight step up from the 175,000 the prior month. the expectation here if we get a number below $200,000 that might be enough to revise optimism we're seeing a slow down and on track for interest rate cuts this year. the sub200, a much lower figure might be positive for wall street but a hot number above 200,000, that could be seen as a negative that perhaps there's more work to come, and wages have been a real signal when it comes to those and expecting to see a slight increase on the monthly rate. when it comes to the unemployment rate don't forget we've had this high on interest rates. you could expect the unemployment rate to tick up from here. it's still just shy of that 4% handle. also key this week the data. we've been getting sentiment slow down and there could be other data on the jobless front and those are the nonfarm payrolls. so far the adp this week has shown a slight deceleration, and we also had a slight increase for those. whether we see it or not, that is going to be significant this morning as we look to closeout the week for markets. as you say they've been perched higher but around a single theme for technology. we're looking for a bit more breadth today if we do get a weaker jobs print, jonathan. >> we'll of course have complete coverage of that jobs report later this morning on "morning joe." cnbc's karen tso live from london, thank you for helping us out this morning. former donald trump advisor steve bannon must report to jail next month. what we're learning about the judge's order and how trump and his friends are reacting to it. we'll be right back with that. 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do you think hunter himself should be called, and what sort of time line are we looking at for this to wrap up? >> the defense will call two to three witnesses. now, when you do that, you're really use using it as a placeholder. you don't want to reveal until the last possible minute on the defense who exactly you're going to call. you don't have a burden, it's always a much longer list than you actually call because, again, you don't have the burden and there's a strategic advantage in keeping the prosecution guessing who you're going to call. and the biggest guess is always will you call your client to the stand, and an answer you usually wait until the last possible minute to give not because you're being sneaky on the defense but strategically you make that decision at the last minute. it is the defendant, the client who makes that ultimate choice, and sometimes they're waffling and in any federal trial they're going to see a lot of evidence build up against them, and it can be intimidating. so hunter biden has an absolute right to take the stand. i still think it's very unlikely that he will -- i think if they need eyewitness evidence they can get that from other sources. they may also call an expert, but generally if you can get the information from other sources, and that would be eyewitness testimony, it's better than calling your actual client to the stand because there's so much exposure, so much risk, and criminal defense attorneys are really risk averse creatures. >> lastly, two-pointer do you think the prosecution has made its case to get a conviction, and if there is a conviction what sort of sentence might hunter biden face? >> these charges are rarely brought, and almost thev brought as the lead charge. they're usually an add onto the fbi found a cashe of guns and drugs. youch a unique situation here, something i haven't encountered before and i've handled drugs and gun cases, and the prosecution usually doesn't put on evidence someone's an addict. it's rare you see this kind of evidence this person was an addict, and it shows the problematic nature of this statute proving someone was an addict or user because who's to say who is an addict or not because you watch a show like intervention or see anyone you know with drug problems and normally those folks don't believe they have a problem. it's the addict who doesn't believe they are an addict. this trial is about the addiction scourge in the united states and how difficult and how febulous it is to define what is an addict or an unlawful user at a particular moment in time. >> all right, we appreciate the analysis from msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos, thank you as always. next up here donald trump is suggesting retaliation following conviction. hear what the might do to his political opponents. then, coming up on "morning joe," we'll have a live report from france as president biden continues his multi-day tour in commemoration of the 80th anniversary of d-day. army veteran and democratic congressman jason crow of colorado will join the conversation from normandy. plus, two top u.s. officials are in the middle east for cease-fire negotiations. the parents of an israeli-american hostage will weigh in on that as pressure mounts on israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu to finally get a deal done. "morning joe" just a few moments away. i'm your inner child. get in. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] listen. horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] oh now we're torquin'! the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga. because there are places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ old spice gentleman's super hydration body wash. (whispered) vanilla and shea. 24/7 moisturization with vitamin b3. (knock on the door) are you using all the old spice? oops. ♪ (old spice mnemonic) ♪ here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. welcome back. former president donald trump has left the door open to jailing his political opponents should he be elected to a second term. speaking to a local arizona station, trump also aired his frustrations over his own conviction. >> the world is different now. they're doing things that were never done. they're doing what they do in third world countries. with my thing, i had no crime. there was no crime. there was no anything. the prosecutor never wanted to bring the case until i decided to run. the only reason they brought the case is because i ran for election. it could have been brought seven years ago. there would have been nothing to say, but nobody wanted to bring it because there is no case. there was no crime. so when you ask me the question, would we do it, i'll talk to you in about three years from now. >> joining us now, special correspondent at "vanity fair" and host of the "fast politics" podcast, our friend molly jong-fast. she is an msnbc political analyst. trump has long threatened to use the power of government to go after his political opponents. he did so while he was in office. since his guilty verdict, that rhetoric has only increased. he has singled out political opponents, people in the media he doesn't like. should it -- how seriously should we all take this? >> i mean, i think you should take everything donald trump says seriously, literally, technically, all the ways, right? because we saw in the first administration that he did try, in fact, he pushed, he bullied his admin to try to go after hillary clinton. i mean, they couldn't find anything. look, we even saw the republicans in the house, he encouraged them to impeach joe biden. while that impeachment fell apart when their star witness ended up in jail, they tried. they would have kept going could they have, like, really put together a case. so i think, yes, for sure, trump is very involved in vengeance, but i think what is important to remember is will hurd said it best when he was running. will hurd said, donald trump is running for president to stay out of prison. >> yeah, i think that is undeniably part of what he is doing here. i think you and i have talked several times about the need to focus on the stakes of the election and not just the day-to-day developments. >> right. >> this is one of those moments where this is extremely important. let's hit a bunch of other topics here. speaking of some biden campaign aides yesterday, they flagged these comments and said, look, this is a former president of the united states and republican nominee attacking the rule of law, foundations of the democracy. split screen it with biden who is overseas talking about the need to protect democracy. these arguments, these lofty themes, do they resonate with voters? >> remember before the midterms when biden gave the two speeches about democracy, and was in the pundit class were like, people don't vote on democracy. people vote on prices. but people did like those speeches, and they did resonate. look, midterm voters and 2024, you know, we don't know who is going to show up at this election. that's part of the problem with the polls. it's just impossible to know if those low-frequency voters come back for trump or not. but the engaged, high-frequency voters, the people who are biden's base love this, right? as well they should. look, i mean, this is really -- we're in uncharted territory here. i mean, trump is unabashfully running as an autocrat. biden has set up to make this argument, and i think it is morally necessary he make this argument. i think it is important for the stakes of democracy that he makes this argument. i think also politically, it works for him. >> deeply important. let's set that first and foremost. also on the politics, you raise the idea of who votes on this idea of democracy. the biden theory of the case is issues of democracy and also decorum, you know who votes on that? older americans. older americans show up to vote. >> right. >> there seems to be a sense among biden world, who polling suggests they're doing surprisingly well with older americans, if they do enough there, it might offset losses they're seeing now with younger americans. what's your take? >> okay, i think that is totally certainly a strong point there. the older americans who used to vote republican feel like they like dedecorum. most people like normal. one of the problems trump world will have, which they have had historically, is trump has no interest in growing the electorate. he never has. he's never given a speech that was like, you didn't vote for me, but i'm not going to rain fury on you. i'll govern for you. that's what normal presidents did, and they did that for a reason. they wanted to get re-elected. trump has taken this other tactic. you know, the base needs more and more to get excited, so he's sort of painting himself into a corner here. he does the retribution stuff, partially because maybe he believes it, who knows, but partially because the base loves it. >> right. we're a little over a week since the guilty verdict. >> yeah. >> we've seen some polls that show modest but still movement, a point or two toward president biden in a race that's going to be, we think, extremely close. that could matter. what's your analysis of what you've seen so far? >> i think what is really interesting about the polls, again, because you and i both take polls with a grain of salt, but, you know, you want to look at movement. i also think what is interesting is all of these polls that show that people think the verdict was rightly decided. i mean, that, i think, is really interesting. there really is still a solid faith in the rule of law which is good news for american democracy, right? because people are seeing this as what it is, and they see these are 12 jurors. you know, these jurors made this decision. trump's guy had -- you know, trump's lawyer had a chance to get rid of the jurors he didn't want to keep on the jury. it really was the way it works. i do think, ultimately, this polling on how it's received might be even more important, but i also think that more transparency and having cameras in the courtroom might have actually helped more. like, the more people can see these criminal cases, the more they can see how they work, that's really important. also, i think this hunter biden case, even though, you know, the idea that they're charging him because he said he was an addict in the text message, i mean, that stuff is pretty convoluted, but, you know, it does make the case that the law is the law for everyone. these charges are pretty unusual, and they're doing it. there really is a sign that they're just going after everyone left, right, center. >> follow-up on the hunter biden case, you make a good point here. the president did not interfere with the investigation. in fact, he said yesterday in an interview he would not pardon his son, even if hunter were

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