>> a very important friday. we will reconvene the courthouse gang for this hour to go over what we have all been through and, alex, just a word about a banana republic. i despise the term and have despised it for so long now because it carries the assumption that countries that grow bananas, and we know where they are, somehow inherently have inferior governments to ours. which we have proven many times before is not true and nothing proves that better than the trump years and, oh, by the way, we grow bananas in hawaii. >> agriculturally and ethically, great points, lawrence, as always. >> thanks, alex. >> have a great show. >> thanks. well, it was a one word sentence that changed donald trump's life. he wasn't expecting to hear that word yesterday. at 4:15 p.m., judge merchan told defendant donald trump and his lawyers, the prosecutors in the courtroom, quote, i'm going to excuse the jury about 4:30. we will give them a few more minutes and then we will excuse them. donald trump's defense lawyer, todd blanche, set all right and the judge set i'm going to step out for a few minutes. the conventional courtroom wisdom for a variety of reasons is the longer a jury deliberates, the better it is for the defense. and so donald trump and todd blanche were nearly giddy that the jury was going to go home for a second day. without reaching a verdict. >> donald trump thought he was going home without a verdict today. he had about 15 minutes to kill and what we saw was donald trump at the defense table that we have never seen before. he was joking, he was laughing, he was smiling with todd blanche. they were laughing almost incessantly. todd blanche laughing so hard at one point, doubling over that his four head almost touched the table. they thought they were going home today, it seemed, without a verdict. it was almost a jubilant and giddy donald trump, but that changed quickly when judge merchan came back in the room to inform the parties the jury had reached that verdict. >> the jury had a verdict after only nine hours of deliberation, which is not a long deliberation for a 34 count indictment of this complexity level. so donald trump watched his jury into the courtroom for what would be the final time. the jury walked by him, as they always did, at high speed, never looking at him. never looking at anyone else. just filing straightahead, focused on the job they took an oath to do. there is no suspense like a jury verdict. nothing like it. we have taken the suspense out of so much of modern life. we have polls telling us who is going to win elections. we have computers tracking exact the where hurricanes are going to go. we can know the gender of our babies before they are born. there are websites devoted to predicting the chances of who is going to win which oscar and as prediction has become easier, suspense has become much more rare. in the entire history of the dramatic arts from shakespeare to spielberg, no dramatist has been able to deliver to an audience the force of the impact a jury verdict has in the room as it hits, just when the suspense feels unbearable. i have seen lives crushed in an instant by a jury room. i have seen people sent off to the electric chair by one word. guilty. and i have seen lives saved by a jury verdict. winning the library -- lottery has nothing on the words not guilty for a criminal defendant. every announcement of every jury verdict leaves everyone in the courtroom dizzy. no matter which verdict they were hoping for. it is hard to trust your ears when you hear that verdict. did he really say what i thought he said? it is what speeds through the minds of everyone who has just heard the verdict. the world slows down and you experience the passage of time in thousandths of a second so that if there is another count of the indictment, it always seems like the announcement of a second verdict comes a very long time after that first verdict. and if both verdicts are the same, only then do you begin, just begin to believe your ears. that is when you hear the crying. that is when you hear the mothers crying for their sons who have just been convicted. i was a teenager when i heard a wife crying for her husband who had just been convicted of murder. i had many conversations with her during that trial. i can't remember the sound of her voice, but i will never forget the sound of her crying when she heard that verdict. and if there is a third verdict, only then does your mood brightened, if it is the verdict you wanted to hear. but if it is the verdict you don't want to hear, and if you are the defendant, by the third verdict you are in the darkest place you have ever been in your life. your eyes may be open, but you cannot see, you cannot feel, you cannot understand what is happening to you and you begin to feel the greatest fear you've ever felt in your life about what is going to happen to you. for two full minutes yesterday, the worst two minutes of donald trump's life, donald trump listened to his jury verdict, delivered by the foreperson of the jury, who moved to this country from ireland and still has an irish accent that was last heard in the courtroom when he was answering questions as a prospective juror, six weeks ago. there were no screams of anguish as you sometimes hear at jury verdicts. no one cried. the current misses trump was not there. eric trump was the only family present and if he has feelings for his father, they once again went unexpressed. the only thing defendant trump heard in the courtroom when the torturous suspense finally broke, was this. the clerk. how say you to the first count of the indictment charging donald j. trump with the crime of falsifying business records in the first degree? guilty or not guilty? juror number one, guilty. how say you to count two? guilty. count three? guilty. how say you to count for? guilty. how say you to count five? guilty. how say you to count six? guilty. how say you to count seven? guilty. how say you to count eight? guilty. how say you to count nine? guilty. how say you to count 10? guilty. how say you to count 11? guilty. how say you to count 12? guilty. how say you to count 13, guilty. how say you to count 14? guilty. how say you to count 15? guilty. how say you to count 16? guilty. how say you to count 17? guilty. how say you to count 18? guilty. how say you to count 19? guilty. how say you to count 19? guilty. how say you to count 20? guilty. how say you to count 22? guilty. how say you to count 23? guilty. how say you to count 24? guilty. how say you to count 25? guilty. how say you to count 28? guilty. how say you to count 29? guilty. how say you to count 30? guilty. how say you to count 31? guilty. how say to count 32? guilty. how say you count 33? guilty. and how say you to count 34? guilty. the clerk, please be seated. 34 times. 34 times. just half an hour earlier, donald trump was laughing with his lawyer, laughing as he had never laughed before and then he had to listen to the word he hoped he would never hear, 34 times. he had to listen to that word 34 times, because 12 people randomly chosen from the 1.6 million people living on the island of manhattan, raised their right hand and answered yes to this question. do you solemnly swear or affirm that you will try the case of the people of the state of new york against donald j. trump in a fair and impartial manner and to the best of your ability render a true verdict according to the law and evidence? i watched that jury paying much more attention to every word of testimony than donald trump did. i watched that jury paying much more attention to every word the lawyers on both sides said, then donald trump did. i watched that jury never close their eyes in that courtroom the way donald trump did for hours on end. i watched that jury respect what was happening in that room. more, much more than donald trump. ever could. >> the only voice that matters is the voice of the jury and the jury has spoken. >> joining our discussion now, adam klasfeld, a fellow at justice security. lisa rubin, msnbc legal correspondent. both were in the courtroom when the trump verdict was announced. also with us, andrew weissmann, former chief of the criminal division in the eastern district of new york. lisa, i want to take you back to that moment and to the breaking, the final breaking of that suspense and hearing that first guilty doesn't mean you will hear 33 more guilty's. you have to patiently wait as the verdicts unfold on multiple counts. take us back to the moments when you heard the first guilty. >> i can't even begin to describe the shock i was feeling and you are right to say that while the first guilty doesn't mean you get 33 others, the folks at this table like you know a whole lot more about this case than the general public and one of the things we know is that counts one through four pertained to the earliest checks that were written by the donald j. trump revocable trust, not donald trump personally. those were checks that did not bear his signature. they bear the signatures of one of his sons with allen weisselberg. two checks were written in february and those cover, those and the related documents, the invoice for michael cohen and ledger entries covered counts one through four, so when i heard guilty on count one, my immediate thought was this is going to be a clean sweep. because there were some folks who thought we could get a mixed verdict, that a jury would blame donald trump for those things on which you could find his fingerprints, namely the checks he himself signed. maybe that would extend to the other business records related to those checks, but we did not know, particularly given that todd blanche tried to distance his client from the other transactions, whether they would find fault with him for that. so hearing as you described, the four persons distinctive irish accent, the clear, resonant guilty on count one was astonishing. adam and i were sitting next to each other. i took your place yesterday next to adam and i remember hearing the woman sitting on my other side gasped audibly and then all you could hear was pounding of keyboards everywhere. and then i looked up and i saw his energy, donald trump synergy. as you noted he and todd blanche had been having this very romantic moment between them, laughing when the jury came in. when they knew there was a verdict you could see them start to separate a little bit. in that moment trumps body language was pinched, straightahead. there was no more leaning on todd blanche, joking with todd blanche. they were like this. it was like the parting of the red sea in that moment. >> i want to explain to our audience at the outset why our seating arrangement looks a little different tonight. i have been in boston since wednesday morning, involved in some college reunion activities and andrew weissmann is grandly occupying what would usually be my chair in that studio and doing so in a way that makes me feel like it is time for me to get out of the way and let them keep that chair. andrew, this verdict, you have seen so many verdicts come in. you know the tension of the moment and as a prosecutor when you're sitting at the table and you hear the first few guilty's coming in, you probably have a good idea of the rest of what is coming, but prosecutors don't start high-fiving in front of the jury. it is one of those moments where even though the winners are trying to contain themselves, maybe a little nudge, you know, to each other, about having one, but it is not a big moment of a full expression of what it feels like for a prosecutor. >> there is no question i think that a seasoned prosecutor would tell you that if you are gleeful upon a verdict, you are in the wrong profession. that is not the right reaction and obviously, i am not sure when you start out you may not have that, but i think there is a lot of pain involved in that, obviously with respect to the defendant. they are there because of a choice they made and responsibilities being accorded to decisions they made as found by a jury, but it is still something that is sort of humbling and sad, especially, although it wasn't as true here, very often there are family members who did not do anything were crying and upset and understandably so. i should say the other part of the verdict that i find always very moving and i found it particularly so here is when the jury is polled, that is something that the defense usually requests and that is when the clerk asks each of the jurors, after the verdict is read, as you recounted, lawrence, to say whether that is, juror number one, is that your verdict? and they each have to affirm that that is the case, if it is. and in this case, in addition to sort of making it clear this is just an average citizen doing it, in this case, to me, it really shamed all of the people who came as sycophants and toadies to donald trump. the members of congress. certain judges or justices who didn't take their oath sender not taking their oath's of public service as seriously as an average citizen who was sworn in and took their oath of office and stood up, understanding the gravity to the individual. understanding the stark nature of what they were doing and understanding the potential ramifications to them personally, and still doing their duty. that, to me, although it is not as dramatic as the verdict itself, it is something that sort of brings you back to the foundational goals and purpose of the rules of law and how it is founded on the people of the united states. >> adam, i have marveled at the way you do your work in the courtroom because you are present, taking everything in, you are taking notes, but you are also live tweeting the courtroom for so many hundreds of thousands of people, sometimes millions of people trying to follow it through you and many others who are live tweeting in that courtroom. so you are living the experience and transmitting the experience at the same time. i have never had to do that in the courtroom. in the courtroom i am taking and what is happening and i am taking it in to me and i will have time to think about it before i ever try to transmit it to someone else. what was it like for you typing that word, guilty, hearing it from the four persons mouth and then delivering it? >> first, i want to thank you, lawrence, for those very, very kind words. at that moment i'm going to take even a step back before the pronouncement of the verdict. lisa mentioned earlier the gasp in the room that she heard during the announcement of the verdict. the biggest gasps i heard was when judge merchan announced we had a verdict. that was by far the loudest it had been in the courtroom all day and that moment was the first rush of adrenaline. we are witnessing history. we need to bring this out and when you are live tweeting something you want to get it out as quickly as possible. that was a historic moment, in of itself. and the way you recited it at the beginning, the pronouncement of the verdict, it is not just that one moments. it is the call and response and there was an air of, i would call it surreality. it is a moment where it was relatively more quiet at that moment than it was when we knew that was happening and because, as you said in that very thoughtful opening, did we hear that right? can we believe our own ears? and hearing that call and response for 34 times and knowing for certain that american history had forever changed at that moment. >> we are going to squeeze in our first break here. we will be back with what president biden said about this today. we will be right back. k. ♪♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well. ♪♪ ♪♪ jardiance! -it's a little pill with a ♪♪ ♪♪ big story to tell. ♪♪ ♪♪ i take once-daily jardiance ♪♪ ♪♪ at each day's staaart. ♪♪ ♪♪ as time went on it was easy to seeee, ♪♪ ♪♪ i'm lowering my a1c! ♪♪ jardiance works twenty-four seven in 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feeding their dogs dog food that's actually well, food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. get 50% off your first box at thefarmersdog.com/realfood sara federico: at st. jude, we don't care who cures cancer. we just need to advance the cure. it's a bold initiative to try and bump cure rates all around the world, but we should. it is our commitment. we need to do this. the american principle that no one is above the law was reaffirmed. donald trump was given every opportunity to defend himself. it was a state case, not a federal case, and it was heard by a jury of 12 citizens. 12 americans, 12 people like you. like millions of americans who served on juries, this jury was chosen the same way every jury in america is chosen. it was a process that donald trump's attorneys were part of. the jury heard five weeks of evidence, five weeks. after careful deliberation the jury reached a unanimous verdict. they found donald trump guilty of all 34 felony counts. not only has he given the opportunity as he should to appeal that decision like everyone else has that opportunity. that is how the american system of justice works and it is reckless, it is dangerous, and it is irresponsible for anyone to say this was rigged, just because they don't like the verdict. our justice system has endured for nearly 250 years and it literally is a cornerstone of america, our justice system. the justice system should be respected. we should never allow anyone to tear it down. it is as simple as that. that is america. that is who we are and that is who we will always be, god willing. >> adam klasfeld, lisa rubin, andrew weissmann, back with us. andrew, listening to that today makes you realize that we rarely hear presidents talking about criminal prosecutions. there are so few that ever rise to the level of presidential attention at any point, including the verdict. presidents not including donald trump who commented on prosecutions of his own people while they were happening. but what the president said today was the most elementary message about american justice. >> yes and you know you could replace the word trial with election and it is the same. which is, you know, losing an election, well if you want, it is fair and if you lost it is rigged. and the same would be true at this trial, where the four of us have been, night after night, talking about how fair this process was. before we had any idea what the result would be and that is because all of us understand the elementary view that this is what the criminal justice system is. it is not about the end result, it is about due process and respecting our fellow citizens with respect to the result they come to. so here you really do have the president saying i stand for the rule of law and for respecting due process and even the rights of the defenda