trump says he will get rid of the popular health care program if elected again, as north carolina becomes the latest state to expand medicaid. that states governor, roy cooper, joins me to discuss. and sashay away, george santos becomes the first member of congress sixfold were the 20 years. with more than half of its republican colleagues voting to give him the boot. you just know tara setmayer will have something to say about that. no jonathan capehart, this is the saturday show. >> we begin this morning with the israel-hamas war, where the israeli military is intensifying its attacks on southern gaza after a week long pause in fighting came to an end. the idf says within just the last 24 hours, it struck more than 400 targets across the gaza strip with airstrikes, tank fire, and its navy. according to the hamas-run health industry in gaza, that least 200 palestinians have been killed since the fighting resumed. secretary of state antony blinken in dubai yesterday blamed hamas for ending the seven-day pause, and the white house says it's working with israel and qatar to broker a another pause in fighting with hamas. meanwhil nbc news has learned that three months ago, israeli military analysts have learned their superiors to a serious plan to sign to start a war by hamas mitants, but their concerns were dismissed by eir superiors, according to this really from individual familiar tter. cells reporting from new york times that israeli officials were warned hamas is planning a mass assault more than a year before it's happened. but israeli military and intelligence officials reportedly dismissed the plan, as aspirational, considering it too difficult for hamas to carry out. joining me now, evelyn farkas, executive director of the mccain institute and former deputy assistant secretary of defense for russia ukraine and eurasia, and david ignatius, foreign affairs columnist and associate editor at the washington post, and an msnbc contributor, evelyn david, thank you both very much for coming to the saturday show. let me start with you, david. has the reporting from the new york times and nbc news had any impact on the dynamics at work in the region right now, we're where the consequences, particularly for is really prime minister benjamin netanyahu not be seen until after the war is over? >> so jonathan, i, in general, the assessment of how this catastrophe of the october seven attack happens has been deferred until after the war it's completed. but every israeli knows that the basic facts of how unprepared the country was, of how divided it was by prime minister netanyahu's political campaign for judicial changes. what's new and stunning is that within the intelligence services, which, as you know, process, there was detailed information about precisely the kind of attack that took place on october 7th. it is still not clear to me from, the reporting, whether that intelligence got all the way to the prime minister, whether netanyahu himself was informed about the new york times called, jericka will wall, which was planned to break out of a gaza fence, pretty much exactly like what happened on the 7th of october. but we do know is within the intelligence services ourselves, those reports were downplayed. analysts said, this is real. this is happening. this is a real plan, and more senior people said, no, we don't believe. it so, did it go all the way to the prime minister, who is responsible for just rolling forward into this nightmare? we don't know yet. >> let me follow up with you, david. this morning, all attending the cop28 conference in dubai, vice president harris met with the president of egypt, and had a call with the amir of qatar. and i haven't checked my email to see any readout of other calls were meetings, but the readouts note, yost kmiec it's rockets to -- release all the hostage. was this noticeable to be -- the vice president discussed the importance of planning for the day after the fighting ends in gaza. am i overstating the importance of that? >> i think u.s. officials have been talking about the day after, urging israel to think more about the day after for some weeks now. my strongest impression, when i was in israel briefly, in gaza, was that there simply had it been clear thinking on the israeli side about how this war will end, and what comes after the u.s.. suppressing to think about that. the rays, i'm told, a task force with senior u.s. and senior israeli officials, trying to think about ideas, ways to have a stable transition, good but the -- ways, and she's one of many u.s. officials who will do that. the israeli's response is, first we, have to destroy hamas. the problem is, the u.s. east the damage to civilians and infrastructure, possibly being so severe, that it leaves you know, nothing but rubble, to use a metaphor for the day after. and almost impossible cleanup task. >> evelyn, let me bring you in here to pick up on something dave it was just talking about, and that's the israeli goal to destroy hamas. my question is, is that even possible, do you think? >> well, jonathan. it's not possible to completely destroy hamas. you want to decimate a terrorist movement, the terrorist for so it's not an immediate threat to the state of israel. i don't know whether they've achieved that objective. you know, the israeli government, the israeli defense forces, have never outlined for us exactly how they define you know, getting the threat to a level where it is, again, no longer existential to the state of israel. because if you're going to say you have to destroy 100% of the hamas terrorist force,, then you're going to lose a lot of civilians in the process, and that is just not tenable, worldly or otherwise. and if i could add something about the day after, you, know it's not just that. there's going to be a bunch of rubble and people who are throughout gaza, especially if the israelis continue doing what they were doing and conducting the operations the way they've been conducting them in the north of gaza, but you still don't see any thing about a political settlement, i think it's what they were talking about there on the sidelines of the meeting of the cup 23 meeting. they were trying to give some reassurance that there are people who are thinking about the day after, not literally the day after the rubble, but the political settlement, the decade after, what is this gonna look like for the people of gaza, because but one hope that you might get the people of gaza on your side, if you're israel or frankly, the united states and the international community, it's to offer the people of gaza some kind of political future. you know, i'm sure, without taking a poll, jonathan, the majority of the inhabitants of gaza were not overwhelmingly satisfied with their leadership, right? and in the aftermath of this, sure, they can blame the israelis, but it's also a failure of political and military leadership, to say the least. , so >> hang on with that. finished that last thought. >> now, so, i think that the end of the day, the way to get out of this whole situation, of, course president netanyahu, he's the only one, frankly, that is not interested in bringing this to a swift close, and that is a whole other topic. but we need to move. >> we don't even have time to get to netanyahu's future, even though i have a couple of questions about that. let me stick with you, because israel's been telling sufficient in northern gaza to head to the south, to avoid the fighting in the north. but as we've seen this morning, much of the attacks have been aimed at target in the south. meanwhile, the israeli military released an online map the finding of the gaza strip into sections, in case of an evacuation. you can see it there on the screen. but my map is no designated safe ared, to put a finer point on it, there is no internet in gaza. how is this possibly protecting civilians? >> i don't think it's doing the job, jonathan. again, this is why i think our government needs to continue making the point that it is apparently making that, according to the new york times, telling the israelis they have to use precision. they have to be more precise. and maybe, it will come out a greater risk to the israeli defense forces. i don't know, but they cannot just displaced people from one place to another, and add to the point you made, jonathan, -- you doctors without borders, they basically asserted that they were bombs or they were thanked, rather, by israeli forces, if they had told the israelis they were coming. so, the point being is that there are adverse that are made, even when people are trying really hard and you know, i'm just really concerned the longer this goes on, the worse it is, frankly, for the government of israel, for the israeli people, long term solution and certainly, also, for u.s. interests. >> they've, it is the international outcry over the humanitarian disaster in gaza having any impact on netanyahu and his government? >> >> it's limited so far, certainly, -limited to the pause and provided humanitarian assistance for people in gaza during those seven days. i think the impact is that the biden administration is moving towards a possible break with israel on the way it conducts the remainder of this campaign, that's a big deal. if the united states says to israel, openly, and it seems they've already said privately, quietly, but if they say openly, we don't find the way you are committing the war acceptable, that's a major change in the balance. it's something i think any israeli leader, including netanyahu, has to take very seriously, so i don't think we're there yet, but i think that's behind the scenes. the challenge for israel is to complete this clearing phase in southern gaza quickly. isolate but leadership, the leader of gaza, of hamas, yahya simard, thought to be underground in khan yunis, if they could identify where he is, focus on, that gets other people to some safety, they are thinking about that. they never the camps. are then, conceivably, the administration will say okay, that's the plan we can except. but for the moment, i think they are heading towards a possible collision. . >> save it, we are out of time, but real quickly, i want to pick up on the news that you just dropped there. that the united states is or maybe moving towards a break with israel. what do you think that breaking points could be? because that would be extraordinary, if it happens. >> it would be huge. it would be unprecedented in their relationship. i don't mean to imply where they're get. just as i look at the statements that blinken made on his visit, to israel, and the clear statement he made, there must be a clear path. those were his words, to a resolution in this conflict. to greater safety for civilians. the israelis have not yet responded with that clear path, so, i don't expect the u.s. will pull back from that, when the secretary says that emphatically, he says it's imperious, then, you know unless there's some response, there could be consequences. i think the israelis are responding, again, when i was there is they are having to make this up on the fly. they never expected this attack. they never had a clear vision of the day after. they're having to think, tete, how do we do this? and they're not there yet. >> david ignatius, evelyn farkas, thank you both very much for coming to the saturday show this morning. and coming up, no immunity. federal appeals court rules donald trump can be sued for the january 6th capitol attack. plus, the dangers of another trump presidency, less than a year out from the election. this and much more, after the break. you're watching the saturday show. 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>> so, first of, all i think in those clips, the really saw donald trump making his legal argument, which is on the president, i could do whatever i want. that's an argument that king george the third try to make. that's an argument of vladimir putin has tried to make. it's really not an argument the president of the united states has made before, except for richard nixon once, in a tv interview. if this is not what donald trump is saying, these two different courts, jonathan, in this criminal trial in washington, d.c., as well as in the civil trial in the court of appeals in washington, d.c., our nation's second highest court, and yesterday, he lost both of those. not surprising, because trump's arguments here really appear to be made in bad faith. they are also just plain bad. they are just about delay. nobody who knows anything about constitutional law thinks that the president can do whatever he wants. that's insane, and we saw the consequences of that kind of thinking on january six. when trump effectively directed him up to go and attack the capital. that can't possibly be the rules america is governed under. >> okay, i agree with everything you say and everything you say is right, right, true, and fair. however, we should expect trump to take this all the way to the supreme court, as part of his delay tactic. would, my concern is, what the justices hear these cases, and how do you think they would rule? >> no. >> so no, they won't through the middle. >> i don't think so, these are so clear. these are slam dunks, so, look, trump is going to try and take his loss before judge chutkan in this criminal trial to the d.c. circuit, nation second highest court, the one that ruled against him yesterday. i'll say something about how criminals difference civil and the like. but this can't be right. i mean, basically, trump is saying in this arguments, it can be facing trial when he's running for president, he can't face trial if he wins the election, that's what one of his lawyer said in georgia this week, and, you know, if he loses, trump's gonna say, he's gonna claim he won, so it's basically the former president is making every possible argument to just try to delay his trial and what. be surprised if trump's next move is to say their claim can't go to trial on any day at the week that ends in the letter why. i mean, it's just absurd, so, i think the supreme court will see it as. such so, basically, there will be a quick appeal to the d.c. circuit, i suspect the d.c. circuit will rule against him quickly. based on the ruling from yesterday. then, trump will try to take it to the supreme court, and i don't see any appetite for the supreme court entertaining such bogus arguments. >> what do you make of the appeal court noting that trump's lawyers do not dispute, that he engaged in his village reactions and up to and on january six, just that he is entitled to presidential immunity? >> yeah, look. i think the average fourth grader can tell you attempting to overturn a lawful election doesn't exactly fall within the job description of the president. and this appeals court yesterday made that important distinction official. and jonathan, notably, on that appeals court was a judge, judge cats this, who is not just a trump appointee, he was trump's deputy white house counsel. you know, so. its number two lawyer at the white house. and cat says ruled against donald trump. so, that tactic tells you all you need to know. trump can try to spin this as a bunch of obama judges, but no, these are trump judges. >> one more thing for you, neil. my washington post colleague, robert kagan, has a brilliant essay online right now with the headline, trump dictatorship is increasingly inevitable. we should stop pretending. former congressman liz cheney shared similar thoughts, in a cbs interview airing tomorrow. listen. >> he's told us what he will do. it is very easy to see the steps he will take. people who say well, if he's elected, it's not that dangerous, because we have all of these checks and balances. don't fully understand the extent to which the republicans in congress today have been co-opting. one of the things we see happening today is sort of a sleepwalking into dictatorship in the united states. >> neil. do the american people yet fully understand what's at stake next year? >> i don't think they do. i think everyone should read the kagan column. i think everyone should listen to liz cheney. you know, basically, this goes back to our founding. alexander hamilton in 1790, said the following, quote, when a man on principled in private life, desperate in his fortunes, bold in his temper, it seemed to mouth the hobby horse of popularity, he may ride the storm and direct the road, that is hamilton saying exactly what's happening, trump's own allies are saying if he wins the presidency, he will illuminate checks and balances that every president has labored under. for example, we are used to setting confirmations for all sorts of important posts, cabinets up, trump saying i'm going to get rid of the confirmation process and just have recess temporary appointments for two years to install his cronies in. for another example, our federal government is staffed with thousands of experts, nonpartisan people who know everything about you know, securities regulation or food and drug regulation or treasury and the economy, or transportation safety. he wants to fire all of them and put trump cronies in. and we know how he governs. look at how look at what he prioritizes for his lawyers. look at who he puts on, look at who he gives pardons. to his friends and cronies and allies and the like. he is going to do that throughout the federal government. so, this is the election of our lifetimes, because it really does ask ourselves, are we going to listen to alexander hamilton and be vigilant about these kinds of threats, or are we going to just watch tiktok and watch our democracy bleed away? >> we are going to be vigilant here at the saturday show. neil cocktail as always, thank you so much for being on this morning. and next, feeling vulnerable. the muslim community is facing rising hostility as the israel hamas war continues, and the white house is trying to navigate its relationship with that community as the conflict continues. minneso