war and 150 palestinians held in israeli jails. that pause in hostilities a critical demand by the white house to permit the delivery of more fuel and other humanitarian aid. >> really now the ball is in hamas' court. if hamas has any care or concern for continuing a pause in the hostilities and any sense of responsibility, it will continue to release hostages and this pause can continue. >> the agreement calls for more hostages to be released depending on whether the pause in fighting holds. the first hostages expected to come out tomorrow. there will be ten women and children believed to include american 3-year-old aigail, a day before her 4th birthday. with me one of the key negotiators for the u.s. a live report from rome where pope francis met with families of some of the israeli hostages and with palestinians who had relatives in the war-torn gaza. ♪♪ good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. after 46 days, nearly a dozen hamas hostages will soon be freed. the first such diplomatic breakthrough in the long war. they will release ten hostages for four days. the time frame could be extended if hamas decides to release more hostages. ten hostages for another 24 hours of calm. in return, israel has agreed to a full pause in military operations to allow in aid and fuel for four days, a key u.s. demand, and to release three palestinian prisoners for every hostage returned. the red cross will gain access to the remaining hostages for what is required under international law, contact with families, food and help. families are now in an agonizing wait. >> we are waiting to see who will come back home. it's crazy. we don't have names yet. only speculation that it's going to be mothers and their children. it's tough, very tough. >> president biden in nantucket for the thanksgiving holiday with his family, praising his team forheir role in the deal saying, my national security team and i have workedly with regional partners everything possible to secure the release of o fellow citizens. today's deal should bring home additional american hostages and i will not stop until they are all released. let's start with nbc's raf sanchez in tel aviv. raf, this pause should be starting at 3:00 a.m. eastern standard time. there was a nine-hour deliberation between the prime minister and various aspects of the war cabinet and his national security advisor opposing the deal. >> reporter: yeah. it was an absolutely marathon cabinet meeting that ran on from the early hours of yesterday evening here until the early hours of this morning. prime minister netanyahu surrounded by his cabinet ministers, also his top national security officials, making the case for this deal. the deal ultimately passing through israel's cabinet. although, several far right members of netanyahu's government voted against it. as you said, it's due to go into affect according to hamas 3:00 a.m. eastern time tomorrow. we expect at that time, if this deal holds, the fighting will stop in gaza. both israeli forces and hamas fighters, their guns will go silent. then at some point in that window, we expect to start seeing the first of these hostages, we believe, handed over from hamas to the international committee of the red cross and then into israeli custody. the israeli government has been drawing up detailed plans as to how to handle these hostages emerging from what we believe will be 47 days, almost entirely underground, in tunnels, potentially not have seeing sunlight at all. some may have sustained injuries on october 7. others may have sustained injuries during their time inside of gaza. very detailed procedures being drawn up by israel. they say before there is any security questioning, any questions about intelligence that could be gained on the situation inside gaza, there needs to be a detailed medical assessment and a detailed psychological assessment to make sure these hostages are in a position to answer questions from israeli security officials. the deal was approved in the early hours of this morning. under israeli law, there's a 24-hour waiting period in which israeli citizens can object at israel's supreme court to the release of the 150 palestinian prisoners. the israeli supreme court ruled just a few minutes ago against one petition trying to block that release. the judges saying that they defer to the israeli government on these questions of national security, on these questions of foreign policy. it does not appear that the supreme court is going to step in and derail this agreement. >> raf sanchez, thank you. thank you for all your reporting throughout this ordeal. it continues, i know. joining us now is former israeli ambassador to the united kingdom, who is a top advisor to prime minister netanyahu. thank you very much, mark. we have been talking about this. now finally a deal. what do we know about the health of the hostages? >> not enough, i'm afraid. as you know, there have not been red cross visits until now. some intelligence we have, we can't be sure. we will see for the first time tomorrow, as your reporter correctly said. one of the first things we will have them do when they return is very, very, very comprehensive medical examinations. who knows how these people have been living over the last 50 days, since they were abducted. who knows what they experienced and what they went through on october 7. especially as we are expecting to get a group of children, some of them very, very young, some of them at a very tender age. of course, we have to be very careful and make sure that they get any care that they need and they get that immediately. >> what would israel consider a violation of the deal? there's so little trust. these are two enemies for a lot of reasons. is there no confidence between the two parties. what would be a violation? frankly, a militant on either side trying to wreck the agreement. >> no one on our side is going to try to wreck the agreement. let's be clear about that. the basis of the agreement is that there's a cessation, a pause in the violence for the duration of those four days that has been agreed to. hamas has committed itself to that. if that is violated, that's a major problem. of course, they have committed to release 50 people. that is their commitment. that is their obligation. that's what we are expecting. >> how do you ensure that the 150 palestinians that are eventually going to be released, if this continues, how can you be sure that there won't be someone like the mastermind of october 7th who reportedly was one of the 1,000 people exchanged in 2011? >> you are 100% correct. there's always a danger that a security prisoner who is released will return to terrorism. that's always a danger. what we have done in this case is we have had to manage risks. there's not a perfect solution. we want them all out. we want all 240 hostages released. that's obviously, unfortunately, not going to happen at first. we're doing it stage by stage. we are starting with this group of 50. the people being released, i want to -- there was a condition of the israeli government, we're not releasing people who are guilty of murder, murder themselves, where maybe they tried to kill people but they didn't actually succeed. we have drawn the line there with people throwing bombs, people who have shot, people who stabbed but they didn't kill anyone. people, as we say -- i don't know if it translates into english. people with blood on their hands are not being released. we are aware that in the past people who have been released in these sorts of deals have returned to terrorism. we are very -- as i say, we know that can happen. if there's an opportunity to bring our people home and to bring home 50 people, including the children, that is for us a major objective. we think if we manage the different options we have, this is the right option. >> as you point out, it did happen back then. the debate within the cabinet took nine hours yesterday. the national security minister was against this. how do you get past those kinds of divisions? >> we have a parliamentary system in israel like in britain and germany. there's a vote in the cabinet. the majority of ministers supported the prime minister's proposal. there was a minority, a small group of ministers who disagreed. in our system of government, there's a vote in the cabinet, that's a government decision. that obliges the minority who voted against it. we have cabinet responsibility. that's our system and that's how it works. of course, there are powerful arguments saying you give hamas time to rest, to regroup, to prepare for next round of fighting. we do know that they only agreed to the cease-fire -- to be frank, they didn't suddenly become humanitarians. on the contrary, they are brutal terrorists. we saw the horrific violence they did on october 7. we know exactly who we are dealing with. we have no illusions. who kidnapped babies? one of the people we hope to see tomorrow was 9-months-old. he became a hostage before he could talk or walk. what sort of people do that? it's disgusting and depraved behavior. we know who we are dealing with. we have no illusions whatsoever. we just want to see our people back. that's the most important thing. after that, whether the cessation of conflict is behind us, we will proceed to deliver blows against hamas until we ended their rule over gaza. >> there are credible reports that u.s. officials are concerned about some of the extremist settlers in the west bank, which could precipitate a second front against israel. i have seen video of the takedown, the bulldozing of the arafat statue. is israel doing enough to restrain the passions of the settlers and others in the west bank? >> our goal is to concentrate on the south, on gaza. we want victory there. we want to keep things as quiet as possible in the north, on the lebanese frontier. that's difficult the way hezbollah is behaving, and in the west bank we want to keep thinks as quiet as possible. what we have been doing is hamas has terror cells across the west bank. we know that the hamas activists in the west bank, they want to try to do atrocities, they want to try to cause a major explosion of violence. that's their goal. we have been pre-empting them. we have taken out and arrested a series of dangerous actors. as to israeli vigilante activity, the prime minister spoke about that. any vigilante activity is unacceptable. we will root it out. >> thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. president biden and his national security team have played a key role in that. one of the key figures is joining us, brett mcgurk. congratulations are in order. this is a very important first step. how confident are you it can hold, that there's enough to be gained by both sides so that any minor infraction will be overlooked and it will not blow up the whole deal? >> your question is a good one. it's a breakthrough. the president has been hands on engaged in this the last five weeks, talking to prime minister netanyahu 14 times, president sisi and more calls later this afternoon. we have recognized that until we see the hostages coming home, until hamas fulfills its end of the agreement, nobody is resting comfortably. we are focused over the next four to five days of seeing the 50 women and children come home. as your last guest mentioned, this includes toddlers, a baby, a 3-year-old american citizen whose parents were killed on october 7, abigail. we anticipate and look forward to seeing her come home. we want all the hostages home. this doesn't stop here. we will be working every single day to make sure that the terms of the agreement are fulfilled. we very much hope to see these hostages coming home here over the course of the thanksgiving weekend. >> there's been criticism by the u.s. of some of the tactictactid by israel in the war. reports this deal was delayed because of what happened in al-shifa hospital. are you confident israel will not use bunker buster bombs as they initially did in the refugee camp? they will approach the hospitals with more care? >> we are engaged in intensive discussions with the israelis every day. when the president went to israel, the first american president to visit israel in a time of war, he spoke publically about war-time decisions being the most difficult decisions. they require deliberation. they require constant rigorous inquiry into the objectives and whether the policies you are pursuing are achieving them. one thing we have been focused on since that time and before then is this hostage deal. the president recognized very early the only way -- the only realistic way to get a humanitarian pause in place -- we support that irrespective of a hostage deal -- is through an agreement to bring the hostages home. there were a number of very difficult intensive conversations between the president and the other leaders that helped get this done. we will have to see where -- what happens over the coming days. the israelis have fully committed to this deal. hamas has committed to this deal through the qataris and egyptians. this was a rigorously negotiated deal. the terms could not have been achieved a month ago. i have been close to this process. a month ago the terms were different. the way it's structured is 50 women and children come out in four days. over four days of a humanitarian pause. if hamas wants that to continue, it has to produce additional hostages. that was not the terms of the deal two to three weeks ago. that's because hamas is under pressure. we structured this deal in a way that incentivizes the release of all hostages. 50 up front. we are hopeful we can have this continue as more hostages come home. >> are you confident you can get a massive amount of aid in compared to the trickle? you are talking about 300 to 400 trucks. there has been a fraction of that. and get fuel in. >> i just spoke with ambassador satterfield. i was in cairo two or three days ago and met with our u.s. aid chief. we are working to get as many aid into gaza every day. the united states of america is at the lead of the effort. we are the lead contributor. we are the lead facilitator. we are doing everything we can irrespective of the hostage deal. the hostage deal brings a humanitarian pause in fighting. if you talk to people doing this work, you need that pause in fighting to ramp up. we are ready for that. i don't want to talk about the number of trucks or anything. it's a logistical feat to get this moving. the trucks are inspected, because we're not going to allow hamas to rearm through this process. we are confident we have the pieces in place. we will get that moving. we are hopeful this will start tomorrow. the hour has not been confirmed yet. we are hopeful the deal will start tomorrow and we will see aid going in in increasing numbers. we are at 100 trucks a day now. that's not enough. during the humanitarian pause we believe we will be positioned to surge aid in. that's what we are working on. >> i know you have other commitments. i can't thank you enough from all of us for what you have done in this, you and your colleagues, the secretary of state, of course the cia director and the president. thank you. >> thank you so much. the inner circle. a longtime advisor to prime minister netanyahu and a former top u.s. intelligence official joining us for a perspective for what is unfolding and what's to come as israel awaits the return of some of the hostages held by hamas. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn't ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling in ra and psa. relieve fatigue for some... and stop joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. done settling? 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sometimes it's difficult to do both of them. there had to be a decision here. continuing the war against hamas but getting some of the hostages back. we have to proceed on assumption that hamas won't release all the hostages. it's their get out of gaza free card. for them to release all the hostages, we could flood the tunnels and we could defeat hamas. they have the hostages. what do you do? you try to do the best of both. what we can say and what i can say unequivocally, were it not for israel's ground incursion, with the controversy it generated, this negotiation would not have been possible. it was only by increasing the pressure on hamas that they came in some ways to the negotiating table. >> jeremy, the u.s. has a lot of concerns about how that ground offensive and the air offensive -- the bunker buster bombs in the refugee camp, some of the attacks -- the ways the hospitals were approached, the tactics of the war. they have been very open about that in recent weeks. >> they have. president biden has also been absolutely clear that hamas is committing war crimes by putting tunnels and terrorist infrastructure in civilian areas, including in medical facilities, including in schools, including in people's homes. i agree with the ambassador. this is a good moment here, especially for the family of american citizens like abigail, who, of course, should never have been taken in the first place, should never have seen her parents murdered in front of her eyes. it's a moral outrage that they have to release palestinians. seven americans wills remain in captivity. i don't think president biden, jake sullivan, tony blinken will rest until all seven of the other americans are home back reunited with their family, until all 180 other hostages are back from 30 nationalities with their families. this is a good moment, but i think i agree with the ambassador that we can't give hamas credit for this. it's a terrible situation that should never have occurred in the first instance. you are right that american advice, american intelligence, american targeting support to israel has ensured that the campaign against hamas becomes more precise over time. a ground campaign is more precise than an air campaign. once israel was able to go on the ground, they were able to put a lot of pressure on hamas and drive to this moment where we can now have a humanitarian pause and the hostage release. >> let me ask, at what price in terms of the political outrage around the world that built, seeming to forget the savagery of october 7th? what about the facts on the ground right now in foreign capitals, with president macron calling for a permanent cease-fire? what about that? i would like michael to respond. jeremy, you and his team have been clear, morally and strategically clear. a cease-fire would in essence give victory to hamas. if you have a cease-fire, then hamas could engage in another october 7th, take abigail and other hostages again. we would be right back where we were. there's no having -- there's not a thing where you have a permanent cease-fire against a terrorist organization that's willing to attack civilians. i do think, of course, some of the images in the early days of the campaign caused israel to have to recalibrate its targeting. they did that. they listened to american advice. there was intelligence shared. there was capabilities shared. americans have -- the american government provided munitions to israel. in essence, that's been the strategy to try to contain some. >> was the siege a mistake? i know you wanted to keep the pressure on. but denying fuel, which meant there was a cell outage where people could not reach each other, thousands have died, all of the babies who have died because of the incubators, those in the nicu. could lives have been saved that didn't have to be lost, non-combatant lives, if there had been more aid? >> of course, lives could have been saved simply by having hamas surrender and give up the hostages. everyone seems to have ignored that option. instead of calling israel exercise greater caution in attacking hamas, i think israel goes to extraordinary lengths to exercise that caution. it's not a perfect science by any means, especially when hamas is using its population as human shields. we encountered the same dynamic in every round of fighting with hamas. the one option, which macron and other international leaders overlook is calling for hamas to give up, to surrender and give back the hostages. then everything stops. that simple. it never seems to occur to anybody. it's a simple solution. yes, israel will continue to do its utmost to limit the civilian casualties. as jeremy says, we have no alternative. we have to defeat hamas militarily. we have 250,000 people who have been displaced. they don't have homes. we won't be able to return them to their homes unless hamas is removed. we won't be able to maintain international deterrence power if they internalize that every time they attack the international community will tie our hands with a cease-fire. >> let me ask you about complaints which were made most recently by the editor "the new yorker," highly respected journalist, that israel has been grabbing palestinians along approved evacuation routes, including a celebrated palestinian poet and "new yorker" author and others approved by the state department for evacuation, going withis family, carrying his 3-year-old, taken from that line of people, taken from his family, taken to israel, reportedly abused. we have no confirmation of that. finally released. why grab people seemingly indiscriminately? apparently this is happening to many palestinian men in gaza as they try to leave. >> my sources are aware of this. they understand the complexity and potential controversy surrounding it. they may be writers, but they may have close contact with hamas and they may know the location of some of the hostages. that's our paramount goal here. at the risk of creating that controversy, if we can save a single life, it's worth it. >> we will leave it there. michael, thank you so much for joining us today. jeremy, wish you both a good thanksgiving with this agreement holding. >> thank you. saving lives, up next, an update on the premature babies caught in the crossfire inside gaza. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. 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says. more than a week ago, the world first met him at the al-shifa hospital, along with more than 30 other premature babies. >> ak-47s. >> reporter: israel, the u.s. and the european union have condemned hamas as using hospitals as bases. eventually, help arrived. 31 babies evacuated. two didn't survive the trip to egypt. he stayed in gaza as they search for his family, along with two others, including little anas. if we die, we all die together his father said. they know what it means to be torn apart. the violence forced his family south, leaving the baby alone. we lost hope, his dad says. we thought, that's it. we're not going to see our son. today, he is going home. we found him, his grandma says. i can't describe this happiness. tonight, at least for this family, there's tears of joy and smiles in gaza. >> a little bit of joy in the middle of this terrible war. thanks to erinclaughlin. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. >> you just want to hug my children, 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jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. ask your dermatologist about sotyktu for clearer skin. so clearly you. sotyktu. students... students of any age, from anywhere. using our technology to power different ways of learning. so when minds grow, opportunities follow. ♪ israel's prime minister netanyahu is expected to speak this afternoon, as part of the agreement after the initial four-day pause in the fighting, more hostages could be released each day if that temporary halt in hostilities continues. for now, israel is refocusing its attacks on southern gaza and pledges it is not going to halt the war until hamas is eliminated. joining us now is senior cia officer mark poperopolous and collin clark, director of policy and research at the sufon group. welcome both of you. how precarious is this hostage deal giving all the players, the palestinian islamic jihad, extremists among the west bank who are creating problems according to u.s. officials? >> it's extremely precarious. as you mentioned, it's a multi-player game. it's not just hamas and the israelis here. those are some of the factors and variables that will tell us how durable, how sustainable even the short four-day cease-fire can be. we know that palestinian islamic jihad is holding hostages. there are criminal elements holds hostages, too. it's unclear what leverage hamas has over them. >> what does this mean in terms of israel's planned offensive? they say we're not giving up on the offensive. it's either in the next couple of days if something breaks down or when all are out, they are determined to continue hammering southern gaza. >> i think while -- from the humanitarian perspective, we welcome the release of hostages. this is a massive issue. if you are taken, they will get you back. from the israeli military perspective, a four-day pause was not a good thing, let's be very clear about that. i think there's going to be growing international pressure to almost normalize a pause and turn it into a permanent cease-fire. israel is concerned about that. there's more to do while the israeli military has successful in their view, making gains in gaza, the number of rocket attacks are down, but there's more on their mind that they have to do in the south. i think there's going to be concern, after this four-day pause, which can turn into several additional days if more hostages are released, that's part of the deal, but what happens then? how do they turn this back on? in the view of the israeli military planners, they are worried about this. >> you wrote in "politico" that hamas is not i.s.i.s that comparison is counterproductive. having watched the incredible video of what happened on october 7th, that was pieced together by hamas video and other footage, i'm not sure what the distinction is. i saw beheadings with i.s.i.s. i saw beheadings with hamas. except that if one was a clean kill, if you will, and the other was using an ax from farm equipment. >> in terms of the lethality, you are right. in terms of the attack itself, the tactics, techniques and procedures were similar. we have to look at the terrorist organization as a whole. this is a group that's expressed political leanings in the past. the israelis aren't going to want to talk about that right now. it's just one element or one aspect. we watch war now on our televisions in 2023. this isn't a netflix series. this is a conflict that's going to be long and drawn out. i think the israelis would do well to start preparing for the political aspects. >> when talking to israeli officials, they are not forgetting october 7th, even if the rest of the world has. they are supposedly tailoring some of the tactics and perhaps not using dumb bombs on refugee camps anymore, but there are concerns in the u.s. about some of the ways that they have proceeded against the hospitals, for instance, even though they say hamas is under the certain heard that the u.s. has been kind of quitely and sometimes overtly giving advice on ways to have much more pinpointed targeting. i think the u.s. intelligence community has provided some information and again some expertise on this. there's two points i think that are important to make. one is that israel does view october 7th as existential. you know, we might not, the rest of the world might not, but israel does, and so they are going to want to continue on. the other point, andrea, and i think that is often forgotten as we have this debate in the united states, 30 americans were killed in this attack, and that should bother, i think, people in the united states a bit more than it is, but the the u.s. intelligence community, u.s. law enforcement is obligated, you know, by law we have to bring to justice those who killed our fellow citizens. while we celebrate this humanitarian pause and certainly with hostages coming out, there is much more to do. in my old world of counterterrorism, the idea of a permanent cease fire is not something that is promoted in any way. >> understood, and i wasn't going to suggest that myself, but collin, is there a political cost here given the humanitarian disaster that gaza now is for civilians? is there a political cost in the way members of the senate, democratic pro-israel members of the senate are turning against israel's funding and europe is in the -- the country is turning politically, our country? >> i think netanyahu is under domestic political pressure. i think there's other levers at play here in the united states, and there's also the fact that we're continuing to support the ukraine conflict, which i fully endorse and think that we should, in fact, i'm a bit concerned that ukraine's totally fallen off the radar in some respects, but we're dealing with a lot right now. i think the administration gets fairly high marks for juggling all these conflicts and crises, and we're going to have to lean on our allies, and we're going to have to hope the israelis are able to overcome their own domestic political challenges to see this conflict through. >> colin clark, mark, thank you both so much, and happy thanksgiving in the middle of this war. and the papal audience, family members of israelis held by hamas and palestinians with relatives in gaza meeting with pope francis at the vatican, what they told him next. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. rts" onlc unrelated symptoms like carpal tunnel syndrome, shortness of breath, and irregular heartbeat could mean something more serious, called attr-cm a rare, underdiagnosed disease that worsens over time. sound like you? call your cardiologist and ask about attr-cm. at the vatican, pope francis met with families of some of the hostages being held by hamas and separately with palestinians whose families were stuck in gaza right now. nbc news correspondent anne thompson was there and spoke to one of the families. she's live from the vatican now. anne, what was the message from the pope? >> reporter: today the message to the families, both palestinian and israeli, was a message of compassion that he is praying for them, for both sides, and praying for peace, andrea, but just as interesting is what the family said to him, the palestinian families asked the pope to come to gaza to visit that area, and he was non-committal. he thought that was interesting. the israeli families, in particular an american rachel goldberg whose 23-year-old was taken captive, she brought a picture of her son, and then she showed the pope just a horrific video of hersh being abducted after a hand grenade had blown off part of his lower left arm. >> i quickly showed him the video of hersh getting loaded onto the pickup truck with his arm amputated. >> how did the pope react to that? >> he put his hand on his heart, and he spoke in italian, which a lovely priest translated into english for me saying his heart is with me and breaks for me, and that he was going to try to do everything that he could to help all of us have our loved ones returned. >> reporter: now, andrea, this meeting was scheduled or both these meetings were scheduled prior to the hostage release agreement. the pope today called -- said that what's going on in israel and gaza is beyond wars. he called it terrorism, and certainly that's something that these families would agree with. what they want is peace and their loved ones to be safe. andrea. >> and anne, i happen to know that the state department envoy, the ambassador against anti-semitism, debra lip stat met with the pope, she had an audience a couple of weeks ago in the vatican asking for his help in speaking out against the atrocities that happened on october 7th. it's not the first time that he's been engaged in this. >> reporter: right, the u.s. has been very involved here. the ambassador to the holy sea, joe donnelly was instrumental in setting up these meetings, and i asked him yesterday when i sat down and talked with him, i mean, basically what's in it for you, and he said, look, nobody -- the pope has a unique moral authority, when he speaks, the world listens, and the u.s. thought it was important that he weigh in on this issue, andrea. >> anne, my friend, wishing you a very happy thanksgiving. it's wonderful that you're there covering for us. thank you. >> and to you too. >> and that does it for us, this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." i'll see you on monday. going to take a few days off with family ariends and have a wonderful, safe thanksgiving holiday all of you travelers. follow us on social media @mitchellreports. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. good day. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. will this

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