menendez. as we begin a new hour, grasping for a plan. the new house speaker facing a major task to avoid a costly government shutdown. with time running out, republicans and democrats are already criticizing his new plan. also tonight, the israeli prime minister with a significant statement about the future of gaza. and the new warning about the 2024 race. donald trump has a few things planned for the doj and immigration policy if he were to win again. and it is just as dangerous as you would expect. this is american voices. ♪ ♪ ♪ we begin this hour on capitol hill, with yet another countdown to a costly government shutdown. congress has until the end of friday, six days from now, to pass the funding bill. just hours ago, the new house speaker, mike johnson, unveiled his plan to keep the government funded. it is a two state approach, funding some parts of the government until january, others through february. this new plan does not include spending cuts, nor additional military aid to israel. this untested strategy also serves as a major first test for speaker johnson, who has-limited experience with budget battles. he's already getting pushback from his own caucus. texas congressman chip roy sick, today, quote, it's 100% clean and i 100% oppose. nbc confirms roy is one of three republicans already no deal. anwhile, the white house s this plan recipe up plan for mo republican chaos and more shot down. house republicans wasting precious time with an un-serious proposal that has been panned but members of both parties. nbc news capitol hill correspondent julie tsirkin has more. >> hey, alicia. six days ahead of next friday's government shutdown, deadline, we finally have a plan from house speaker mike johnson on how he plans to avert that shutdown deadline. he talked about it with his colleagues, republicans, on a phone call a couple of hours ago. laying this out. he's polling at a two-state continuum resolution. that's because on january 19th, half of the agencies, roughly, health will run out of funding. then on february 2nd, other agencies will run out of funding. it's really an untested situation. democrats certainly not in favor of it. in fact, a couple of moments after this pummels revealed, senator brian schatz, a democrat on the senate appropriations committee, posted on x saying, quote, we are going to py a clean short term cr. the only question is whether we do it stupidly and catastrophically or we do it like adults. now, it is clean. meaning there are no spending cuts and this bill. that's something that was a red line for democrats. house democratic leader hakeem jeffries at the end of this week told me the only thing they'll except it's a plan that maintains spending levels on current levels, 2023 levels that were, under leader schumer, speaker pelosi when she controlled this branch. it's something democrats are very serious about. a couple of minutes ago i heard from a senior democratic leader who said they are glad, it's a good thing, quote, they say, the speaker didn't include unnecessary cuts and kept defense funding with the second round of programs. we are hearing from some republicans who are thrilled about this. hard-line conservatives, talk like someone congressman chip roy who posted on x, while the meeting with republicans was still happening, he didn't agree. -- it sounds like he's [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] -- she's a no on this one too. -- big question if johnson can get to 217 with just republicans or whether he's gonna have to work across the aisle and get some democrats to join him too. >> nbc's julie tsirkin, thank you for the report. the spending fight underscores what on the line when focus contemplate which party should control government, when they hit to the ballot box next year. last week served as a reminder of the whiplash nature of american politics. democrats met a strong showing tuesday for off-year elections, and ohio, a solid red state, voters and shrine the right to abortion access into the state 's constitution. kentucky's race for governor, voters reelected governor and deep a sheer. and in -- this all comes nearly 18 months after the supreme court overturned roe v. wade. this tuesday shows that rolling, it is still reshaping elections. democrats celebrate his hard-fought victories, the slate of new polling means a different picture in the race for the white house. just as before today's election, a new york times poll found donald trump leading president biden in a five out of six battleground states in a hypothetical rematch. all of that, susan glasser of the new yorker writes, whichever poll youe to believe or not, the data point overwhelmingly to biden sitting at near popular -- and is tied with trump, a man who is running on an explicit platform of revenge, retribution, and constitution termination. it will not get revenge being fought and so trump's plan to govern, should he be given a second term. new reporting for the new york times describes trump's new plans for immigration, crackdowns on illegal immigration, building camps to perform nasty protections. as we so often say on this show, cruelty is the point. joining me now, fernand amandi president of dixon and armando international and from florida, carlos curbelo -- both are see -- msnbc political analysts. i want to talk about the funding fight. the white house is calling this unserious. you also have far-right republicans saying this is a no go. tell me, we were do you think this is all going? >> alicia, welcome speaker johnson to that wacky world of managing the house republican conference. the squeeze is on. democrats aren't going to support his plan. extreme right wing republicans or spoken to oppose his plan. and some of the centrist members i've already heard from, experts and doubts about setting up multiple cliffs. the last thing the government needs and washington, d.c., alicia, at the last in congress dates is more cliffs. some of the conservative members and the house republican conference want to use those clips as leverage, but we all know how those cliffs and, sometimes. congress ends up falling off those clips and government shuts down. so, put on your seatbelts the next few days, there is gonna be turbulence. >> who is the thing. we often talk about how the gop caucus is ungovernable. you have one republican member saying she's -- jesus christ himself could not get this caucus to get its act together, which seems pretty on point. that's not just politics, right? it's not just machinations in the house. in this case, we're talking about people who rely on government benefits. not being able to access the benefits they need, that they pay into, because a cohort of republicans were not serious about governing. they were not serious about delivering basic duties and making sure the government responds -- when >> you touch on it there. i think fundamentally, the point, is yes, the republican party now control the congress, or the house, cannot govern. it is ungovernable. it's not just a cliché. it's true. but i think you almost have to pull a letter back, because the one thing they said they could do, at least, electorally, was when elections. we keep seeing, in these 2023 results, all the way back in 2022 ands 2020 and 2018, they're on a hell of a street at the ballot box themselves. so when you asked the question, what can this republican party of today do, i'm not sure there is -- you also heard congressman curbelo say, at the outset, the onus here on passing and making sure this government doesn't go into a shutdown is on the republican party. they have set the situation up, where they will appropriately or bear all the blame responsibility, and it's not up to the democrats to bail them out. they need to put together and present a responsible bill that will fund the government and all those services, that so many millions of americans are counting on. and if they don't, they're facing electoral apocalypse. even more of them have experienced in 2020 fall. >> fernand amandi, part of the reason i do not allow you to have a weekend off is because last weekend, i invited you on -- we were on air is less pull of numbers came out and you, st. louis, and these are the numbers that you want. it's also more complex and that's part of the reason the campaign has to get started today. and so, one of the reasons i want you to come back and have this conversation with us is because i want you to help me score the polar numbers we're seeing -- from what we saw this week out of multiple states. add in the element of complexity, that the electorate you see adoring these off cycle elections, is not the same electorate you're gonna see come november. >> well, you know, take it from this poster. i'm gonna talk about polls. this is gonna sound strange. through all the polls out the window. i don't believe the polls mean anything right now, and not until we really get into the post convention period will that be the case, alicia. because, again, if you want to look at indicators of future performance, look at these election results. in election after election, whether it's a special elections, midterm elections, even presidential elections getting back to 2020 and before. democrats are performance where they need to. what i will say is this. one thing i discovered and the only part of 2022 it is despite president biden's low approval rating, his lower popularity, voters are saying in spite of all of those things, given the opportunity, i'm still going to vote for the democrats in the face of this extreme authoritarian project, which today's maga republican party represents and will even be more so under a donald trump nomination in 2024. that doesn't mean they should rest on their laurels, everything is fine, because it's not. as we said last, week these are warning signs. they need to react appropriately. but they shouldn't gloom or doom just on the basis of these poll numbers right now. >> the pollster who tells you to not believe the polls, yourself sabotaging your own business in the name of democracy. thank you for that, fernand amandi. carlos, i do wonder -- i get the point. there is a saliency question around reproductive rights and the extent to which that is motivating -- as an isolated issue, not seen in the global context of the economy and other things that will drive voters to pose. but i still have to wonder if republicans watch what happened this week and said, this is not a winner for. us it's not a winner, the way we thought it was a winner. people talk to us about being radical and multiple contexts, including this authoritarian strain within the republican party. this issue, this is feeding into the idea that we are not where other americans are. so i'm curious, your sense -- we know how democrats felt watching this week's elections. our national republicans saying, hey, going into 2024, this is not a winner and we've got to pick off a bit? >> alicia, they're really waking up to the reality after so many losses. you heard nikki haley, especially, at that last nbc news republican debate really dancing around the issue, talking about how even though people don't think about the issues the way she does, states rights have to be respected. and donald trump has openly criticized people like ron desantis, who signed a six-week ban in the state of florida. people ask me, have republicans gone too far on abortion? are they worried about it? and of course the answer is yes. what donald trump, the front runner and the republican primary is opening -- openly attacking other republicans for being too, strict when it comes to the abortion issue. so, yes, there's a lot of peril in the future for republicans on abortion. but democrats can't just rely on that. joe biden's numbers are very low, and that's keeping republicans in the game. >> i want to ask you fernand, about this reporting from partner times. a new interview, trump advisor stephen mill outlined trump's plan for immigration if trump were to win backhe white house. the times reporting, quote, trump's want to reviveis first term border policies, including banning entry by people from certn slim majority nations. he wants to scour the country for unauthorized immigrants and poor people by e millions per year. to ease the strain on i.c.e. detention facilitiestrp wants to build huge camps to detain people while their cases are processed and they await deportation flights. you meant that with the reporting about how he wants to go to -- use the doj to go after his political rivals. he is telling us what his vision for this country is we. and if you can't believe it, it is even darker than what he sold to americans during his first term. i wonder who you believe he is trying to appeal to with this message? >> first of all, i believe him. believe donald trump. what he's telling q is what he intends on to win. alicia, lets -- you know, obviously, they, ridiculous, offensive notion that he's going to round up and go after these, quote, undesirable immigrants and scour the country, and language that sounds out of a georgia or pilot novel, a sign bed enough. think about what it would mean and how quickly the mechanism of a rounding up that risk could be and how quickly that could be and now -- apply to the next type of undesirable. is that undesirable political opponents? donald trump this week said, he plans on using and weaponizing the department of justice and other entities took after political opponents. this idea of going across the country and rounding up undesirables, you can insert whatever category of what the enemies list of the trump administration would be, if dog forbid he went in 2024. and believe when he says he's going to implement that, because i believe, if he does, he will. >> i want to ask you, carlos, before all of you go, you mentioned nikki haley, the sort of pivot, the softening on abortion. and i wonder if you noticed during that last debate, that she's still very reluctant to take shots at donald trump? right? that is one pivot she's not willing to make. what do you make of it, if you think it's a strategically sound? >> alicia, i think nikki haley has seen a couple of models. ron desantis tried to follow donald trump to the nomination. very difficult to defeat someone went near imitating them. people like chris christie and others are struggling because they've taken the full anti trump plane. nikki haley's trying to go around donald trump. it's interesting. i mean, typically, if you want to defeat someone you go right at them. but this is a weird time in the republican primary. so, nikki haley is trying to finish this and go around donald trump. maybe it works out for her. but at the end of the day, every candidate, every republican is going to have to say the truth about what they think about donald trump, his election lies, and his entire record. she might be able to avoid it for a while, but at some point she's gonna have to address these issues head on. >> it's a weird time. that might be the understatement about the republican party in this moment, but i will take it. fernand amandi, carlos curbelo, as always, thank you both so much. ahead, standing between trump and four more years of retribution and chaos, more than 98 criminal counts against him. paul buck will help us break down when we might get an answer on some of them. plus, we go live to tel aviv. but first, with richard lui the other big stories we're tracking this hour on msnbc. >> good evening. fbi agents seizing funds and an ipad from new york city mayor eric adams. this is part of an ongoing investigation into his campaign fundraising, says a lawyer for the mayor. the faa previously searched the home of adam's main fund-raiser. the mayor denies any wrongdoing and says he and his staff are cooperating with the investigation. president biden deliver a speech at arlington national cemetery today, to mark veterans day. biden honored veterans and, quote, families who, quote, always kept that light of liberty shining bright. and one of the thousands small earthquakes shook iceland. authorities declared a state of emergency, evacuating and her counsel today. scientists say the increase in tremors means a large volcanic eruption could be imminent. more american voices after this break. after thi break. a digital money coach in the chase mobile® app. use it to set and track your goals, big and small... and see how changes you make today... could help put them within reach. from your first big move to retiring poolside - and the other goals along the way. wealth plan can help get you there. ♪ j.p. morgan wealth management. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. 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>> you mentioned they're premature babies dying. we are hearing from the director of the hospitals saying that 39 babies who are in incubators and therefore relying on power to oxygen out these and debaters were removed from those incubators and placed in a room where they were swaddled in order to keep the manually warm, because the actual machinery isn't operating anymore. and to all feet 39, unfortunately, lost their lives. we understand there are very limited options now and she's the hospital and other hospitals in northern gaza, where many of the medical facilities are completely out of commission. there are few powerpoint and some of the hospitals that are being used, for really just the most drastic, that most medically as a interventions. but this is all happening against the backdrop of this mass displacement of people from the northern part of gaza to the south, as the israeli military has time and again said people need to move. it's important to note, the shifa hospital is not able to just connect people from life support and move him, and there are still 600 or 700 patients there. we did hear from at him on the ground, who sent us a video of a man who was making his way south, down that gaza strip, describing what he saw along the way. listen. >> we saw limbs, bodies, thrown left and right. but we can't do anything. we saw people, children, that were left and right. i can't move. we couldn't move. we couldn't do anything. we were so tired after we walk past the bridge. the wadi gaza bridge. >> it's also important to note, the shifa hospital among others is struggling to bury its dead. they have no work to put them. they cannot get excavating material to even dig a mass grave. so oftentimes, they're leaving bodies where they, lay where they passed away. so to really, really dire situation. and it's only getting worse, according to the medical authorities on the ground, alicia. >> hala, prime minister benjamin enough to address. what stood out to you? >> once again saying the security situation, security control over gaza will remain in israel's hands. this is something we heard from him a few days ago. this is a message that has received very differently depending on what side of this conflict iran. as far as israel are concerned, many of that mindset,, yes this isn't history. that will allow us to be protected from hamas rockets. but as for the palestinians, especially those displaced from the north of gaza, a concern, this means that their displacement might once again be permanent. i've heard from, and i've spoken, over the last several weeks since i've been here, to senior palestinian officials in the west bank, have topped their biggest concern is that the security corridor or buffer zone or whatever the israeli military and government cole it will end up being a permanent fixture and will be annexed to the state of israel. that is one of the biggest worries right now. benjamin retinol who -- netanyahu repeating that motion and his speech again, this evening. >> thank you. in london, demonstrators took to the streets today, calling for an immediate cease-fire in gaza. police arrested at least 150 protesters and 82 counterprotesters nearby. nbc's megan fitzgerald has more from london. >> good to be with. you were talking hundreds of thousands of people packing the streets here in london. this is up the fifth consecutive weekend of pro palestinian demonstrators. but according to organize, this is the largest. we've been speaking with people throughout the day. some folks have no connection to the middle east. others do. but everyone's calling for the same message. they want as he's for immediately, and they want more humanitarian aid to breach the people of gaza. take a listen to what some folks had to say. >> i've spent most of my life working there as a u.s. diplomat, and i'm horrified by our support for this really brutal attack on civilians in palestine. >> over the last few weeks, it's become hard to stomach. the images, videos, stuff like that coming from gaza. and at this point, we can't claim ignorance. inaction is an act in itself. at the end of the day, you have to take a stand and say this is not right. it's not hard to do. >> i'm mainly here because of the innocent children that are dying. the innocent parents that are having to carry on with your future, without your children. i'm here for the orphan children of palestine. and i'm here in solidarity with palestine. >> police have been very concerned about violence, so they've doubled to presence and the straight. they're gonna have presence all throughout the weekend. they told us, some 1800 police officers will be vigilance, to ensure there is no violent acts that occur. as far as organism are concerned, the cellist of just the start of the demonstrations that will come. >> nbc's megan fitzgerald reporting for us from london. thank you, megan. coming up, we'll hear from a family who spent 27 days trapped inside gaza. their story of survival. but first, a new ruling on when the mar-a-lago documents case against former president trump will go to trial. legal analyst poll bottler helps us put it all into context. stay with us. stay with us when you have chronic kidney disease... ...there are places you'd like to be. like here. and here. not so much here. farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure which can lead to dialysis. ♪far-xi-ga♪ farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. when you have chronic kidney disease, it's time to ask your doctor for farxiga. because there are places you want to be. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪far-xi-ga♪ my most important kitchen tool? 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>> judge cannon said no to trump's request to delay the trial, but it was more like no for right now. feel free to hit me up and march, i might just say yes. the judge said she understands it's not just donald trump who has the right to a speedy trial, the public also has that right. that's true. so the judge left the door open to delay the trial later. she said there's an unusually high volume of evidence. and she knows that trump has criminal trials scheduled in december -- sorry, in d.c. and new york he also has to prepare for. alicia, i do think the judge is slow walking this case. for example, she got the motion to delay the trial from september 22nd, and she didn't decide until yesterday. supposed to file the main briefs last week, but the judge gave him an extension until february 22nd of next year. she's not acting like a judge who's trying to move a case along. >> i think there may be some subtext to what you're saying. judge cannon is of course a trump appointee. other previous -- she's favored him, unfortunate an appeal. there are two questions with aileen cannon, one a question of competencies around this area of judicial review and secondarily a question of whether or not as a trump appointee she is, in fact, biased. i wonder if what we've seen this week has informed you are thinking that other question? >> you know, she has a plausible reason for delaying the trial. in that there are voluminous no of motions and the evidence is hard to look at. some of it has to be viewed in a secure facility. what i'm going to be really interested in, is july 15th. that's when the republican national convention starts. if trump wins the nomination, the campaign would go into full gear. defendant has to be in court every day. so i don't know if judge nnon would actually acknowledge that trump's campaign easoto postpone the trial until after the elec but she would actually decide that date. judge chutkan in the d.c. interference trial has been very clear, that she's treating trump like every other defendant. the day job doesn't matter. but again, judge cannon has shown a lot more deference to the former president. >> the day job, hearing running for president as the day job will never grow to me. trump has joined nbc, other news outlets were pushing for cameras at his d.c. election inference trial. i've got to know from, you what do you think is motivating the bush? >> that he knows it's not going to happen. news organizations are appealing to the judicial conference. the judicial conference has already said it doesn't have the power to allow cameras in the courtroom. it the organization that makes policy for federal court. even if it wanted to make a change or an exception for the president, it would have to go through the normal process. there is no way that's going to happen and time for the election interference trial. trump knows that. i don't think there's any way he wants all of the evidence that jack smith has assembled paraded before the public. especially, that trial scheduled to start the day after -- sorry, the day before the super tuesday primaries. ery time we bring up the calendar, i'm reminded there truly something happening mo every day. let's talk about what's happening on monday. trump's new york fraud trial resumes on monday. don jr. back to testify. i wonder what you're expecting from the defense monthlong case? >> the state rests on wednesday. the defense gets started on monday, starting with don jr.. the defense trumps adult sons are using is they got dragged into the middle of a fight between their dead and location james. they are saying, that relied on the accountants and lawyers who filed the financial statements, that the judges or fraudulent. the problem with that defense is that multiple -- both on junior and eric signed documents saying they were responsible for the preparation of the financial statements. the former president also signed those statements which, again, the judge has ruled were false and misleading. >> paul butler, as always, thank you for spending part of your weekend with us, bringing us her expertise. coming up, former president trump is telling us exactly how he plans to use the doj if he were reelected. former deputy assistant attorney general lisa graves joins us. but first, escape from gaza. hear from the family who spent 27 days trying to get out of a war zone and who they had to leave behind. leave behind the wayfair homes just have that razzle dazzle. they redid the guest room. all at prices you can't believe but you should and blitzen fast shipping, north pole in two days so this year go to wayfair for goodness sake. the gifts. you have one job nick. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ she found it. the feeling of finding the psoriasis treatment she's been looking for. sotyktu is the first-of-its-kind, once-daily pill for moderate-to-severe plaque psoriasis... for the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding that outfit psoriasis tried to hide from you. or finding your swimsuit is ready for primetime. dad! once-daily sotyktu is proven to get more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. ask your dermatologist about sotyktu for clearer skin. so clearly you. sotyktu. businesses need 5g solutions today. that's why they choose t-mobile for business. las vegas grand prix chose t-mobile to help power operations for one of the world's largest racing events. mlb partners with t-mobile to advance how the game is played. and t-mobile's network helps aaa stay connected nationwide... to get their members back on the road. now's the time to see what america's largest and fastest 5g network can do for your business. we're talking about cashbackin. not a game! we're talking about cashbacking. we're talking about... we're not talking about practice? 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>> to be honest, when we were there, it was one question. i used to pray, like, every moment. please, don't take one of us, three of us. >> it made us feel helpless, i think. youssef could end up being like the many other innocent children that have died. and that was heartbreaking for us. >> wafaa and the cat would entertain use of, as a boot waited in hours long lines for food and often dirty water. >> by the time you get to the line -- the amount of humiliation you've seen, standing in lines for something as basic is bread. it's a white as you. >> after being turned away repeatedly at the egyptian border, on them for a second, finally. they receive permission to cross. but safety for this son meant living their parents and siblings in uncertainty. >> no one that bad news could come at any moment makes it hard to start feeling normal. even if not physically, we're very much still and. it's >> making it impossible to find pace, even back home in the u.s.. antonia hilton, nbc news, massachusetts. >> very much still ended. next, former deputy assistant attorney general for two presidents, lisa graves on donald trump's threats to weaponize the justice department if he were to serve a second term. and tomorrow, msnbc films presents serving and secret, that latest installment of the talking point documentary series from executive producer trevor noah. the film traces the united states military's long history of discrimination against lgbtq servicemen and women. that is tomorrow, ten pm eastern right here on msnbc or streaming on peacock. aming on peacock es with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. shingles doesn't care but, shingrix protects. shingrix is now zero dollars for almost everyone. ask your doctor about shingrix today. meet the traveling trio. the thrill seeker. the soul searcher. and - ahoy! it's the explorer! each helping to protect their money with chase. woah, a lost card isn't keeping this thrill seeker down. lost her card, not the vibe. the soul searcher, is finding his identity, and helping to protect it. hey! oh yeah, the explorer! she's looking to dive deeper... all while chase looks out for her. because these friends have chase. alerts that help check. tools that help protect. one bank that puts you in control. chase. make more of what's yours. 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[dog barks] oh. no it's just a bunny! calm down taco. sit duchess. stop! sesame no no. archie! walter don't, no, ahhhh. ahhhhh! you're lucky you're so cute. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ >> we make it a point not to amplify donald trump on the show, unless it's truly important for you to hear it. this is one of those moments. this week, trump told us at the what he's planned if he were to be reelected. the former president telling univision he would use the justice department to after his enemies. take a listen. >> they have done and documents in order to win an election. they called it weaponization. and the people aren't going to stand for. it's yet, they've done something that allows the next party, if i happen to be president and i see somebody who's doing well and beating me very badly, i say, go down and indict them. mostly what that would mean, they'd be out of business. that be out. they'd be out of the election. >> joining me now, former deputy assistant attorney general lisa graves. lisa, i want to know both what do you make of trump's threats to use the doj for political retribution but also the first part of his answer where he is accusing the current administration of doing the same, once again, without any evidence. >> he's certainly lying, yet again. this is affection he's trying to create. this justice department under merrick garland has followed the rules, caught square a chorus and is not engaged in any political retribution. it's pursuits affects as they found them. as how the other attorneys in other jurisdictions like georgia and new york. i think what he said is just chilling and frightening and awfully inappropriate for any candidate for presidency and the united states. it was my honor as deputy assistant attorney general to come to work at the justice department and walk through those aluminum doors where it was engraved, the place of justice is a hellish place. i think of the type of men and women heat surround himself -- people who've been abducted like john eastman and jeffrey clark, frequent fliers at the federalist society, frequent contributors have been invited because of their willingness to aid him and his political agenda to overturn an american election and overturn the votes of the american people. it's simply chilling and completely outrageous and inappropriate. >> lisa, as you call it chilling, it brings to question -- we always circle back. to our that guardrails in place in order to protect this country from him making good on that promise? >> i'm concerned very much because of the number of judges that donald trump put on the federal courts, including the u.s. supreme court. and how politicized it's become. how the trump faction has been leading our judicial system got a very dark path in terms of its willingness to supply precedent. these roles, these understandings and policies about not intervention, about the president not dictating political retribution through the justice department, or the fbi, these are vital roles for the health of our democracy. i'm not sure that we can have confidence that the justice trump has chosen will honor those roles. i hope, as we saw in his presidency, that judges would stand up and defend the rule of law. but he's chosen a number of people who seem very willing to set aside long-standing precedent that americans rely upon. so i'm worried we don't have the guardrails in place. >> i would argue that there was -- there are compounded interest, dual ten years and what he laid out in that interview. there is both a danger of his promise to use doj to go after political enemies. i'm equally concerned by the first part of what he said, which is the sly he's continuing to sell to his supporters, to the american people. that this is already ongoing. we often talk about the ways in which he reset and undermined norms, the way in which there was a devaluation of american institutions. that lie, once it is repeated a certain number of times, and not debunked, as you did so specifically at the beginning of your first answer, it festers and it becomes more dangerous. and that would seem to me, to be part of his intent in saying that, during the interview. >> alicia, i agree with you completely. this is a very dangerous lie, a fiction he's trying to create. and that comes in the aftermath of him seeking to, you, know embrace these chance of lock her up around hillary clinton. his efforts to redirect foreign policy and domestic policy to basically attack biden while he was in the white house. and so, i just think it is extraordinarily dangerous, extraordinarily chilling. and it's also very disappointing that people who probably went along with the chants when he was basically indicating his intent to try to politicize the justice department, would know somehow claim or embrace this notion the justice department under biden has let the genie out of the bottle. it's just a lie. but it's an extraordinarily dangerous lie for our democracy. and it's actually thunderous lie for someone who's the front runner and the race for the presidency next year. >> i've got less than a minute left, and i want to ask, at least, in this in a few trump defended family separation, saying, if immigrant families note that we support, they won't come. family separation in addition to being incredibly damaging for migrants, affecting also -- creating a host of legal problems as well from the doj vantage point, we've got about 30 seconds left. the challenges that process. >> it's just devastating from humanitarian standpoint. he's shown he has no adherence to the rule of law. the fourth amendment specifically provides people born in the united states partial dozens. the idea he would separate families of citizens for here is just extraordinary. it's, wrong it's morally wrong. >> lisa graves, then q some much for taking the time to be with us. we've got more american voices after a short break. and tonight on ayman, new nbc news reporting on threats to election workers and multiple states. is this the beginning of a dangerous election cycle? donna edwards, barbara mcquade, janet griswold -- and alter panel weighing in, tonight, eight pm eastern, right here on msnbc. n msnbc. - i got the cabin for three days. it's gonna be sweet! what? i'm 12 hours short. - have a fun weekend. - ♪ unnecessary action hero! unnecessary. ♪ - was that necessary? - no. neither is a blown weekend. with paycom, employees do their own payroll so you can fix problems before they become problems. - hmm! get paycom and make the unnecessary, unnecessary. - see you down the line. 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(vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. with the freestyle libre 2 system, know your glucose level and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. manage your diabetes with more confidence. freestyle libre 2. try it for free at freestylelibre.us >> that is all the time i have for today. i'm alicia menendez, i want to thank you for spending part of your saturday with us. be sure to follow the show across social media. ouhandle is at alicia on msnbc, i'm going to see you back here tomorrow for more american voices. but for now, i handed over to my friend, ayman mohyeldin. hello ayman. >> haley sia, i was gonna say, you know, it's a no-brainer that while your shows on the air, i'm preparing for my show. so i'm sitting there watching your show, what am i going to talk to alicia about in the handover? should i ask her about mike johnson learning on the job and putting forward a cr bill that gets shut down by his party within five minutes of it coming out? >> you have to kind of appreciate the hubris of being like, no, no, no the l