morning. thousands try to flee on foot, seeking safer zones. israel agrees to four-hour-long pauses or longer along two corridors. secretary of state blinken in india demanded longer pauses to prevent civilian casualties. >> there's more that can and should be done to minimize harm to palestinian civilians. >> i will talk to a top netanyahu advisor, a former ambassador. hostage families grasping for hope after u.s. and israeli intelligence chiefs met. bill burns of the cia goes to cairo, still trying to win release of more hostages. the hostages abducted during the october 7 hamas massacre. how one man is refusing to give up on his girlfriend who hamas drag across the border. joe manchin said he will not seek another senate term. that reshapes the fight for control of the senate. will he launch a run against joe biden? good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. there's been intense strikes today near several gaza hospitals. we enforcing israel's insistence that the promised daily pauses in hostilities are not a cease-fire, something they will not agree to. israeli raids continue with tanks seen roaming the city streets near a children's cancer hospital where patients have been evacuated. some getting out safely to egypt in the last couple of days. the red cross also reporting intense clashes and israeli snipers opening fire on a hospital. the world health organization says a third hospital was coming under bombardment. israel claims hamasheadquarters are below that hospital. a video shows a young girl covered in blood, shouting for her father and brother. another survivor showing the damage and his bloodied hands after carrying the victims' bodies. thousands of civilians have surrounded the hospitals believing they would be safe. now many are fleeing south, joining a mass exodus of civilians. israel claims 80,000 gazans have moved south thursday, amid a pause negotiated by the white house with israel. president biden thursday appeared visibly frustrated about the gaps between what the u.s. wants and what israel is willing to deliver. s willing to deliver >> josh lederman starting us off from tel aviv. it's been a tough day. fighting from both sides, josh. we are seeing contradicting reports from scenes. the exodus of billions along the designated corridors, the hospital strikes. now the idf says a misfired militant rocket hit a hospital. we know from what happened two weeks ago, three weeks ago, that misreporting, early reports, are wrong. it was not israel but a misfired rocket from inside gaza from one of the terror groups that hit that original hospital. we are being very cautious about drawing any conclusions. >> reporter: you are absolutely right to be cautious. this is not the first time in this war that there have been major disturbing developments that were disputed by both sides and very difficult for the independent news media to get to the bottom of. it probably won't be the last. it was the case with the hospital explosion a few weeks ago you mentioned. it's the case again today. what we know is that both the palestinian health ministry, run by hamas inside the gaza strip, and the w.h.o. says there was a strike on the hospital today. the palestinian health ministry blaming this on israel. i just spoke with a senior israeli security official who told me that they have determined that there was a projectile launched not by the idf but by a militant group inside the gaza strip that misfired. they are still looking at all of the intelligence about what has happened there and expect to release more information to back up that claim shortly. in the meantime, we also saw many reports of strikes at other hospitals today, which is creating a lot of confusion, given the fact that israel's military has not disputed they are operating in close proximity to hospitals. they have also said things like, if you are sheltering in the basement of a hospital, you will hear the tanks outside. whether they are actually striking on hospitals is another matter. attacking a hospital would be a violation of international law. the israeli military said some of the protections go away when terrorist groups use hospital and other civilian facilities to hide weapons, to hide fighters, which is an allegation they made repeatedly about hamas. as you point out, this comes as we are seeing this exodus of tens of thousands of gaza civilians who are trying to escape the north, using these new pauses that israel has announced in conjunction with the united states. the question is, how safe will those corridors be? how long will this last? will aid be able to get in to the northern part of the gaza strip at the same time? >> thank you so much. your reporting is, as always, excellent and very careful, as we don't have the ground truth. joining us now is the former israeli ambassador to the uk, who is now a top advisor to benjamin netanyahu. thank you for coming on. >> my pleasure. >> as we have been pointing out -- you know far better than i, that the visuals circle around the globe before israel can appropriately do the proper due diligence to find out what has happened here. those reports did scud -- there's a bottom line issue here. israel has said that the fact that you claim there's command and control under the hospital, not confirmed by the u.s., justified hitting close to. give me your bottom line here. a lot of international officials and u.s. officials say it's a war crime for hamas to use a hospital to shield a command and control center. but they say that does not justify striking a hospital when you know that there are civilians there, refugees there, displaced people and patients. >> andrea, you raise a lot of questions, and they're difficult questions. of course, one does not want to see innocent civilians caught up in the crossfire between our forces and the hamas terrorists. let's look clear here. you talked about international law. the additional protocol of the geneva convention, seen by many as the benchmark for these matters, it says specifically that you have to protect humans and hospitals. article 13 of that same protocol says if a combatant uses those sites for its military machine, then immunity is no longer there. we have the right under international law to strike out. if hamas uses hospitals as it does to shield its military infrastructure, they have lost their immunity. in doing so, hamas committed the war crime by putting its military infrastructure under a hospital. this doesn't mean israel shoots from the hip and has no concern. on the contrary. we make a maximum effort to differentiate between terrorists who are our target and innocent civilians who we don't want to see caught up in crossfire. it makes our job more difficult. we are trying to be as surgical as we can. we don't attack hospitals wholesale. we are dealing with a difficult military situation and trying to be as surgical as is possible under the conditions. >> are you trying to use small ammunitions? are you trying to use smart bombs rather than dumb bombs? it's one of the criticisms that i have heard from u.s. officials. >> one of the first things is we sent ground forces in. we could destroy the structures from the air. we're not doing that. we are being as surgical and as careful as we can be. having our boots on the ground, our soldiers on the ground, we are risking their lives. i want to address the pictures. because the pictures are terrible. how can one look at these and not be moved? but one has to remember that these pictures are pictures hamas wants you to see. this conflict has been going on for a month. i have not seen a single picture -- correct me if you have. but i have not seen a single picture of a dead or injured hamas fighter. we only see civilians. this is because hamas controls the gaza strip through coercion, through a dictatorship. they have the ability to control both the verbal messages coming out of gaza and the visual messages coming out. it's not by accident -- have you seen any pictures of hamas' military activity by hospitals? no. they don't take pictures like that. you can't see them. >> there are reports, especially from the west bank, of israeli -- of idf soldiers taking videos as the hamas terrorists did during the october 7th massacre. disgusting videos, horrifying videos of their victims. israeli soldiers, some, have done that as well now. the way they treated prisoners. >> i'm not aware what you are talking about. i apologize. i should be. but that would be against regulations. any such soldiers involved in such a matter would be discipline. i don't think there's a comparison with hamas. >> i'm not trying to compare them. there's moral equivalency here. we know who started this war. hamas, on october 7th. let me ask you about the pause. the president signals -- the u.s. wants a longer pause, more predictable pauses. i know for a fact -- i have been reporting on this -- i have information from the last couple of weeks of patients trying to get out of the pediatric cancer hospital. they were on the list to get out on thursday. then there was a hit. i don't know which side. no one can confirm which side. around that hospital and they couldn't make their meeting point. they could not get south. parents are frightened. they don't think there's a reliable way out. now there's longer pauses. can you do something with longer pauses than the four hours, with better notice? people don't have communication. they don't have cellphones, internet. they don't have fuel. can you do something to get more people out safely? >> as your reporter on the ground correctly said on thursday, yesterday, 80,000 people used israel's humanitarian corridor to flee the north and move to safer ground in the south. that's one example of these things can work. we're in a difficult combat situation. but i think in the framework of that situation, we are making a maximum effort. of course, the americans are speaking to us about this. we take what they say very seriously. the idea humanitarian corridors and safe times to allow aid to come in and allow people to get out, that's the israeli policy. it's in our interest, first of all, from a moral point of view, we don't want to hurt innocent civilians, but it's easier to deal with hamas if civilians left the area. hamas understands it wants those civilians to shield them. they make it difficult, sometimes at gunpoint, for people to leave. the 80,000 people who left yesterday, why did they wait to the end? they could have left three weeks ago when we first urged people to leave. is it possible hamas -- >> there were strikes going on in the south. there's no proper safe zones. we have seen it with our own teams. let me ask you about the hostages. there have been high-level talks. is there any hope of getting hostages out with these longer pauses? >> we would argue the opposite. the hope of getting our hostages out and they are holding 239, including 32 children, babies, infants. we think the way to get our people out is through pressure. beef up the pressure on hamas. beef up the pressure on hamas' friends in the gulf. make them understand that israel will keep hitting them hard. we have said, you want a cease-fire? we're open to -- for that sort of thing on the condition that our hostages are released. let's be clear, from our point of view, this is the number one humanitarian issue. we can do pauses, we can do humanitarian pauses. you want a cease-fire? it's not going to happen without the release of hostages. >> ambassador, as always, thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia, who could be critical to democratic chances to hold on to the senate, is not seeking re-election next year. could he also become a direct threat to the president's re-election with a third party run? that's next when "andrea mitchell reports" is back in just 60 stay with us, you are watching msnbc. watching msnbc. 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(vo) it's your vision, it's your verizon. during a week of dramatic ups and downs for president biden, democrats won big victories in off-year elections on tuesday, but then they were hit with a major blow. west virginia democratic senator joe manchin announcing he is not seeking re-election, jeopardizing the democrats' hold on the senate. potentially threatening the president with another third-party opponent. >> what i will be doing is traveling the country and speaking out to see if there's an interest in creating a movement to mobilize the middle and bring americans together. >> joining me now, former ohio governor and republican presidential candidate john kasich and robert gibbs. robert gibbs, president biden is praising senator manchin's service, citing key legislation he helped pass. what does his exit mean for the senate, potentially? we know he had a tough opponent in the governor. what does it mean in terms of the white house's re-election? >> great questions. first, i think you have to acknowledge that were it not for joe manchin having that senate seat -- even though it was sometimes difficult -- lots of the legislation that biden likes to tout would not have become law. i think the reality is, even had senator manchin run for re-election, he would not have been the favorite to be re-elected. this is not a state that's great for democrats. joe biden got 29% of the vote in 2020. this was always going to be tough. it will be. the margin for error in the senate is much, much smaller. i think as it relates to a third-party candidate, we will have to see. joe manchin has talked about the fact that if he does this, he is doing this to win. the reality is, a third-party's likelihood to win the presidency in 2024 is 0%. it's just not going to happen. no one is going to hit 270 electoral votes from an independent position. >> in fact, the biggest threat right now would be robert kennedy junior, who is polling around 20%. for a lot of reasons, it could hurt a potential donald trump nominee as much or more than joe biden. >> he is likely to siphon off some votes. if you look at the polling -- "the new york times" polling showed a similar amount from republicans and democrats. but the likelihood that kennedy -- robert kennedy june -- junior will put together enough electoral votes to win the presidency is close to 0. >> john kasich, weigh in on this. >> i sort of agree with robert. 0 is a low number. there's no -- we live in a black swan era, but i think he is fairly accurate. the real question is, what does this no labels do? remember a couple things. first of all, people are willing to give up their religion more than their political party identification. that's kind of a fact. it's very difficult to get people to go and vote for a third party. i do believe that there is fertile ground for the establishment of a third party. probably not something that's going to be as significant in 2024. the real concern that democrats have -- i understand this -- is that if you have a candidacy like that, it's going to help joe biden and hurt donald trump -- i'm sorry, just the opposite. hurt biden and help trump to get elected. no labels is trying to figure out what do we do? the last thing they want to do is to elect donald trump. joe manchin probably fits in that no labels situation there. i happen to this -- i told the no labels people that if they do not run a candidate in 2024, they ought to use the no labels efforts here to create a legitimate third party that can be on the ballot in all the states, that can have a fund-raising base. because i think the ground is fertile for a third party. look at the two parties right now. people don't -- they are not happy with the nomines of either party. there's an opportunity. i think ultimately, it's down the road. >> john kasich, robert gibbs, what a political time we are living in. thank you both so much. coming up, the hostage crisis. u.s. leadership welcoming the humanitarian pauses but urging israel to do more to protect palestinian civilians. that's next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. . with a custom private 5g network. 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how does u.s. intelligence help find the hostages? we're not on the ground. >> you are right. i hope that u.s. intelligence is helping the israelis. if it's our position that the command and control of hamas is underneath the hospital, i hope we will say so and help clear up some of the debate around the world. >> i've been told we can't confirm that independently. there are elements of hamas in those tunnels, but they can't confirm the precise description that israel has been giving from the beginning. >> whatever they have, i hope they will come out with it. i am trying to be sympathetic to the israelis, because of the situation they are in. i want them to be able to prosecute the war to the fullest. you alluded to this on the bunker buster bombs. if there's a way to achieve mission success while lessening the humanitarian consequences, they ought to do it. we saw in "the new york times" on sunday, we wanted to use smaller diameter bombs. that makes more sense. more precision weaponry. also, i know netanyahu is trying, when he tries to go forward with the humanitarian pauses. but it's in his self-interest over time if the international community lessens its pressure or recognizes israel doing more for humanitarian causes, i think they will give him more time to prosecute the war, which is what he needs. he will need more than the 34 days that israel had to prosecute a war against hezbollah in 2006. >> ambassador, help us here. israel is not yielding to what the u.s. says is a bottom line. blinken repeated it today. there needs to be a palestinian governance, palestinian rights and a two-state solution. that's an article of faith that this administration -- netanyahu's expansion of settlements has not yielded to that. there are members of the coalition who were telling us, we don't believe in palestinian governance. they have not shown the ability to lead themselves. but they have been undermined by israeli positions over the last number of years, since 2014. >> you are exactly right. you have to assume that whatever plans the u.s. has for the day after in gaza and by extension the west bank and by extension a so-called -- it's not a popular term these days but it will be again, a peace process, will involve a different israeli government. you alluded to the composition of mr. netanyahu's coalition and the fact that he is heading this government. that won't work. whether this is an intermittent cease-fire, a cessation of hostilities, a humanitarian pause, we can all play around with the terminology, but it won't work. mike allen correctly said that it's going to take more time to pursue or to prosecute the war's objectives. yes. but the question is, how much more time? i would assess conservatively no more than two, three weeks. then there could be a period of time -- again, two, three weeks, no more -- of low-intensity conflict, search and destroy operations, but not an ongoing permanent israeli presence -- military presence in the gaza strip. whatever ideas the u.s. has on who will govern gaza, what will be the day after, has to be based on two fundamental assumptions. >> very, very briefly, mike, what are the chances of getting those hostages out? >> i think they are very low. i noticed barbara leaf said recently that she doesn't have a lot of trust in qatar's ability to persuade hamas to do this. i put it very low, frankly. >> mike allen and ambassador, thank you very much. that hostage crisis, the high-level talks continuing in several countries trying to rescue more than 200 people taken by hamas terrorists more than a month ago. we will talk to the boyfriend of one of the hostages next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. ea mitchell reports" on msnbc las vegas grand prix chose t-mobile to help power operations for one of the world's largest racing events. mlb partners with t-mobile to advance how the game is played. and t-mobile's network helps aaa stay connected nationwide... to get their members back on the road. now's the time to see what america's largest and fastest 5g network can do for your business. ♪everything i do that's for my health is an accomplishment.♪ ♪concerns of getting screened faded away♪ ♪to my astonishment.♪ ♪my doc gave me a script i got it done without a delay.♪ ♪i screened with cologuard and did it my way.♪ cologuard is a one-of-a-kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. ♪i did it my way!♪ with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, my skin was no longer mine. my active psoriatic arthritis joint symptoms held me back. don't let symptoms define you. emerge as you. with tremfya®, most people saw 90% clearer skin at 4 months... ...and the majority stayed clearer, at 5 years. tremfya® is proven to significantly reduce joint pain, stiffness and swelling it's just 6 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions may occur. tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. emerge as you. emerge tremfyant®. ask you doctor about tremfya®. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. this holiday with a ring video doorbell, see whose coming to town. happy holidays! 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(vo) it's your vision, it's your verizon. a rare family feud has broken out between democratic senators from virginia versus their fellow senators from maryland over a decision to move fbi headquarters to a new location in suburban maryland versus virginia. ns o dollars are at stake for local economies because of the construction and relocation of thousands of fbi employees. the decision to put it in maryland was a shock to the virginia senators and contradicted the advise the task force on the site collection. christopher wray saying he is concerned about a potential conflict of interest choosing the site. that's unusual. joining us to sort this out and other things, justice reporter ryan reilly. i'm excited to say the author of a new book "sedition hunters". congratulations on the book. let's talk about the fbi dispute. this has been going on for decades. it was originally supposed to go to west virginia. it's a prize. billions of dollars involved. >> it got tied up in controversy when trump was president. the headquarters is prime real estate. there were concerns whether donald trump was worried a rival hotel right down the street a block away from his hotel -- his then hotel would be put in its spot. he had concerns about that. >> he delayed the project. >> it got wrapped up. this has been going on for a while. it's a lot of cash at issue here. if you think about the leadership of the fbi, most of them do live in virginia. it makes sense that that was where they would want this ultimately to be. this former official with the washington metropolitan transit authority was brought in and sort of overruled this ruling, because the location they selected in maryland is one-tenth of a mile from a metro stop. she's an urban planner. this is what they were prioritizing is getting the employees there as quickly as possible. perhaps reduce use of a car in the washington, d.c. area, which is pretty -- nationally recognized as pretty bad. >> yeah. let me ask you about a dramatic -- speaking of the fbi, a dramatic apprehension. a search for a january 6th suspect, a former national guardsman in new jersey. they caught him? >> it was a 48-hour manhunt. it started wednesday. he saw the fbi coming, and he fled. there are about 1,200 cases to date, but they have identified hundreds more. there have been 1,000 people identified but not arrested. he was one of them. what that means is you have a situation where a lot of people know the fbi is going to come for them. they don't know whether or not they have been identified by the sleuths or what. this was an individual who was interviewed by "usa today" and knew this was potentially coming. it seems like he had some plans. it creates this difficult atmosphere, especially as reporters when i know a lot of these i.d.s, but there's an issue about throwing it out there. you wouldn't want to jeopardize any law enforcement operations and potentially put people in jeopardy. >> ryan reilly, congratulations, again. you want to know anything about all the other thousands or plus of those charged for january 6, read the new book. everyone should read -- get this book, how january 6 broke the justice system. sell some books here. thank you. >> thanks. nearly two decades living in secret. a look at the history of don't ask don't tell and the soldiers who suffered because of it in a new msnbc documentary. that's next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. e wai reports" on msnbc.ng "andrea mi (ella) we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. 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(inspirational music) as the nation honors our veterans this veterans day, msnbc films is debuting the latest installment of the turning point, a documentary series from executive producer trevor noah. sunday's episode is called serving in secret. traces the u.s. military's long history of discrimination is the lgbtq community highlights one couple's long journey for acceptance. >> one of the worst things about don't ask, don't tell is the isolated effect. >> there comes a point -- >> we had both democrats and republicans talking about how terrible gay people are. >> when serving country no longer means hiding love. >> i saw what happened to us, and i kept thinking to myself this has got to stop. service members were being treated as though they were criminals. >> it isn't about tolerance, it's about pride and respect. >> joining me now are two prominent players in the film, veteran navy commander, zoe dunning, and jeh johnson. you served our nation, while also fighting discrimination. tell us your story. >> thank you, andrea. i came out publicly in 1993 to challenge the policies prohibiting gay service. based on president clinton's campaign promises he would open the military to gay service members. he, as we all know from history sort of rescinded on that campaign pledge, i was left in limbo. i went through two military discharge hearings, and won the second one and was able to continue serving as one of the openly gay members of the military, so i took that opportunity to do volunteer work with an organization called service members legal defense network, which was one of the lead organizations in repealing don't ask, don't tell, and that's where i met tom carpenter, the primary subject of this film. >> mr. secretary, i had a little personal history in all of this because on veterans day in 1992, i asked then president-elect clinton whether he was going to live up to his campaign promise on this and he said he would and immediately if the joint chiefs, the chairman of the armed services committee, fellow democrat, you know, a whole ton of bricks came down on him, and then it was left to the white house to try to navigate something about it. i followed up at press conferences once he was in office, so i was very much on the outs with the new administration at the time. you made a deal with it as cochair of the white house working group tasked in 2010 studying the potential impact of repealing don't ask, don't tell. tell us what happened. >> so the obama administration was determined to do things a little differently. frankly, this issue overwhelmed president clinton in the first year in office in 1993 and two powerful opponents, general colin powell and senator sam nun. so in the second year of the obama administration we took this issue on. my then boss, secretary of defense believed strongly if we were going to repeal this law, we had to go slow basically and undertake a study, a ten-month study of this issue, and i got, as they say in the pentagon volunteer cochair of this working group along with general carter ham, and in retrospect, we realized that much of the opposition that repealed don't ask don't tell was based on a stereotype, a broad stereotype, and then of course there was this massive survey, which revealed that most service members in 2010 really didn't care about this law anymore, and we recommended that the law could be repealed, should be repealed, and i have to say that implementation of appeal went far smoother than we even predicted. it was frankly -- >> zoe, i want to -- >> sorry. >> i wanted to both of you to mention tom carpenter, zoe you mentioned, who was featured in the film. he was a captain in the u.s. marines. his partner was dishonorably discharged. his partner died of hiv, but tom went on to help fight against don't ask, don't tell. here's how he described the moment it was repealed. >> it was an unreal moment. i couldn't believe that we had accomplished this goal that we had set forth so many years ago. i almost had to punch myself to believe i was even there, and then my mind flashed back to courtland and i thought how proud he would be of my part. he would have said bravo zulu, well done. >> zoe, how did you feel that impact? >> oh, it brought tears to my eyes just hearing tom describe it again. it was, as he said, an unreal day. and tom is just such an example of someone who took heartbreak and injustice and turned around and did something about it and worked diligently over many years to work to repeal this, so he and others who worked on it, who were sitting in that auditorium when president obama signed the appeal act were just thrilled, and it was a big day for all of us, and it was a big day for our country. >> well, commander zoe dunning, thank you so much, and secretary jeh johnson, it's just another reason to thank you for your service. thanks for joining us today on this important veterans day. and the film serving in secret debuts sunday night at 10:00 eastern on msnbc and streaming on peacock. and that does it for this week, this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." "chris jansing reports" starts right now. ♪♪ good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. we're following three huge stories today, all of them intertwined, all combining to show how conspiracies and lies have

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