bench than any senate under any previous president. and we aren't done, we aren't done. the senate majority leader, new york senator chuck schumer, gets tonight's last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. >> good evening, once again, i'm stephanie ruhle, live at msnbc headquarters here at 30 rockefeller center. it is election night in america, and we got the latest results from some key races we have been watching all night long. let's go straight to the man at the hour, steve kornacki at the big board. steve, there is nothing better than seeing you on election night. give us an update. >> yeah, stephanie, a lot still going on. let's start in mississippi, the governor's race in mississippi, two thirds of the vote at the republican incumbent tate reeves leading presley by 11 points. two key points here i think if you look at these numbers. number one is, we have been waiting all night for the largest county in the state, hinds county, where the state capital of jackson's, it's a core overwhelming democratic county. they just started to report their polls. the polls were open later than any other state because they had issues with ballot availability. you see 13% counted in hines, and it's 86 to basically 13 for presley said this is a big vote producing county and there are a lot more presley votes to come from out of here. that's an opportunity for presley to gain and for reeves to fall. rest of the state, what we have seen so far, we'd like to see there is a pattern. reeves won this race in 2019 by five points. we use this as a bench part when results come in. especially winning five points better in any given county then in 2019. honestly, there are some counties where he is absolutely doing that, and there are some counties where he has fallen far short of that. for example, madison county, one of the biggest counties in the state, the fourth biggest in the state, now we're close to 60% of the vote counted in madison county. reeves is leading this by 13 in. 2019, the democrats won this county in a governor's race, the first time in three decades they had done that. so reeves seems to be outperforming his own performance here in 2019 in a very big county. you go to the second biggest county in the state, rankin county, right outside jackson. reeves grew up here. nearly 80% of the vote in. reeves has a 34 point advantage. he won this by 26 points in 2019. so you've got counties where pressley is over performing versus the democratic showing in 2019. but you also have some big counties where reeves is over performing his own share in 2019. so i think right now if you are the reeves campaign your feeling pretty good about what you're seeing. hinds county remains a big wildcard here. how many votes are going to come out of there and how much is that going to do for presley? and that brings the wildcard into the equation here. and that is that there is -- she has dropped to the, race was doing great, but she was running as an independent, she dropped out, endorsed presley, her name stayed on the ballot, because to, late she's drawing one off. the rule in mississippi is not just having the most votes at the end of the election, it is hitting 50% plus one. so one of the possibilities here with hinds county and so much outstanding is that it does raise presley a few points, it does bring reeves down. if it brings reeves down just 100 50%, he could still finish ahead of presley by a little bit. but if he's short of 50, then we go to a runoff. and the runoff is held three weeks from now. so there is the reeves versus presley race, and in that, reeves is probably feeling pretty good. but there is also reeves versus 50% plus one race, and that might be a little bit more uncertain, again with 70% counted statewide. the other major unfinished piece of business that we have been looking at tonight is virginia, battle for the state legislator, the republican governor glenn youngkin wants to get control of both chambers. start with the state senate, democrats came in tonight controlling 22 to 18. the associated press has now called 20 seats for democrats. they need 21, because 2020, the republican lieutenant governor breaks the tie, but there is a potential 21st seat, where the democrat is leading right now, and what is left to be counted are early votes, our mail votes, democratic friendly votes, so it is a seat that looks very ripe for democrats to take to get them to at least 21. 21 for democrats equals retaining control of the state senate, denying youngkin and republicans the foothold that they were looking for. and on the hasse delicate side, this is the one that the republicans came in tonight leading, 50 to 48 in these current counties, 40 6:40 for the republicans. for the democrats, excuse me. there are a number of seats that have not yet been called, but the democrats, i talked about the state senate see, where it is a similar story, where the democrats look well positioned, i think, to get up to 50 seats, very possible and to exceed 50 is in the picture for democrats here as well. it's a 50/50, and they have to enter the two parties to a power sharing agreement. again, republicans control the chamber now. if this were to end up 50/50, republicans would lose control. democrats would gain it. they would have to share. again, that would be a defeat for republicans, because they would know from controlling it, then having to share, and on the senate side, there is a very clear path for the democrats to win and retain the outright majority there. in terms of what glenn youngkin and republicans were hoping for in virginia, they are coming close, but they may not be close enough. >> all right, steve, stay close, we want to know every single update as we get more numbers in, but right now, let's bring our lead off panel, symone sanders is here, former chief spokesperson for vice president harris, host of symone on peacock and msnbc. michael steele -- former lieutenant governor of maryland and former ohio congressman tim ryan. congressman ryan, a 21st, what is your main takeaway this evening? >> well, a huge night in ohio, stephanie, like a big win. we had steve kornacki break our hearts in ohio more than one time, so it's nice to see him out there with a couple of big ones in ohio on both the abortion bill and the marijuana bill. again, we talked a lot in the past, ohio is a freedom loving state, and today, we got the government out of the lives of women, and we got the government out of people's homes, so allowed them to make their own decision. huge, huge win in ohio. >> symone, president biden posted this on twitter, quote, across the country tonight, democracy won, and maga lost. voters vote. polls don't. he's got a point. >> he does. i like the tweet that you tweeted. polls are, what did you say? >> polls predict, elections proof. >> i think that is what joe biden was trying to say. look, i think it's important that in the lead up to elections like this, especially on election day, that people are talking to the people on the state, on the ground. i made a point to call up a number of people today. what i was hearing is that voters were engaged. we talked a lot about mississippi. in mississippi, in hinds county, that is a county that jackson sits in, the folks on the ground told me that they surpassed 2019 numbers. to be clear, only 72 ballots were cast in 2019, so surpassing 2019 numbers is a big deal. they ran out about this. five times in precincts. in ohio, yet again, every time that abortion has been on the ballot, since the overturning of roe v. wade, voters have overwhelmingly voted to enshrine their rights to make decisions about their own bodies. i think this bodes well, if you are a democrat or a democratic operative looking towards 2024. if you're a democratic governor, or aspiring democratic governor, you have to look at andy beshear, who did not shy away from, i would argue, he did not shy away from the biden agenda. he did not run out there and use fancy branding. he talked about the reproduction facilities -- >> that is from mitch mcconnell 's backyard. michael steele, what do you think tonight? >> well, you know, i am kind of laughing at the gop right now, because apparently, this whole concept of individual liberty has prevented yet another big gop night. at what point do you learn that you are on the wrong side of the argument with the american people? at what point do you begin to understand that the individuals that you are pushing out as the standard bearers for the republican party are not individuals that the country wants? in red state after red state, you are losing. and it states that you have an opportunity to really change and make a difference and set a national narrative. you can't. this is a very instructive night for republicans. i look at the democrats, and i go, you'll need to get a pen and pad. i remind you, my good friend symone has laid out the lesson to be learned by democrats looking at the state of kentucky. i don't know how complicated you want to make this, but don't, okay? run the race. just run the damn race. you've got a president who has laid out the narrative. use it, talk about shovel ready jobs. that is the reality, shovel ready jobs. infrastructure, job creation, lowering inflation, gas prices coming down, you have the narrative. and in red kentucky, guess what, the democrats who are supposed to been ousted, that were supposed to have been, okay, we're down with him, now we return to the maga, they said, no. in ohio, what happened? on abortion, citizens, including republicans, said no. so the reality of it is, there is a new landscape that is being shaped. both parties understand it better than they currently have, because the voters are setting the table, and it's going to be important going into 2024, whether or not candidates like symone said, like my buddy tim ryan said, understand exactly what is in front of the american voter right. >> steph, i would also argue that in kentucky, it was a forceful defense of abortion from governor beshear, and a forceful rejection of anti-trans rhetoric. he vetoed the anti-trans bill and everyone said, oh, this will cost him the election. and he made very clear why he did that. he talked about freedoms, and parents have been able to make decisions for their children. >> congressman ryan, i don't know, i've seen you on television in the last 24 hours, and you are very concerned about the polls out there that we're not looking great for president biden. you said that the idea of biden running for president, quote, scares the hell out of you, and people on someone different. this night change the opinion? >> i think tonight was about issues, and i think tonight is about how candidates matter, brands matter. look at kentucky, andy beshear, a very empathetic candidate. he talked about, how do we get -- how do we rebuilt the economy together? even on the issues of trans people, how do you take care of people? my only issue with the biden messaging is that people aren't feeling it, and you can't tell them that they are feeling good. we have to be empathetic like andy beshear was, but this was an issue -- this was an election about issues, and i think what is really important here, stephanie, is that people, republicans, democrats, independents, just like michael steele just said, agree with the democrats on the issues. our brand is not great, but when it comes down to the issues, and we have been seeing this for years, when they don't agree with democrats, but they agree with where we stand in the polls, that is something that we have to be honest about, that we have to fix, but i think tonight was an affirmation of, we are aligned with the american people on the issues that they care about most, from ohio to kentucky to virginia, and if we can get the message right, we can empathize with people, you can understand that there is still not feeling the economic boost that the macroeconomic numbers are showing, that we can continue to win these elections. >> symone, tim brings up amazing points. here is the thing, president biden has helped us avert a recession. the majority of economists out there, a year ago, predicted that they would be in recession right now. we're not, which is great, however, life is still really expensive, and people don't feel good about it. this is a hard message for the president to convey, so after tonight, should democrats look at something like abortion rights and make it even more central to their campaigns? >> yes, i think abortion rights has been very essential to campaigns since the overturning of roe, if you looked at what happened in 2022. i do think that from what i have seen from this white house but also the biden harris campaign, they have been going out, and specifically, the vice president, and keeping the issue of abortion alive and well, talking about freedoms and couching it under the banner of freedoms. i think congressman ryan make a point. it is the issues, it is the message, but we cannot negate the messenger. like, it is joe biden that put up the criticism at the whole messaging situation, it's branding it bidenomics. i don't think people understand what bidenomics is. what they do understand is that you just tell them what they are getting. that is what joe biden did today or yesterday, when he announced the 16 billion dollars for rail. he just told him what they were getting. that is bidenomics, but they did not call it bidenomics. i think that is what needs to happen. that is what andy beshear did tonight. he talked about bidenomics. the battery production facilities. >> prescription drug prices. >> all of those things, so i actually think that the folks -- not that a lot of people of joe biden today, because, honey, i watched the news, i was sitting on the panels, the people had very critical words for the president. he needs to drop out, i don't know. >> mr. steele, do you think the biden campaign and other democrats can use tonight heading into 2024, especially when it comes to campaigning red states, for condone about that? >> they can learn a lot. they really can. honest to god, they can. i just wish they would get off stupid. this is not complicated. you're running against a guy who has 91 federal indictments against him. you're running against the party that has embraced that, that has set, yes, will support you even if he is convicted. and you are tripping up over the age of your candidate, who by the way, his opponent is, what, three years younger than him? so, look, you've got narratives upon narratives that you can relate to the voters. it's not hard. just tell them what you have done and show them how it has impacted them. yes, we still feel a little bit of pinch here and there, but by and large, what ultimately happens, in this election cycle has proven, in states like virginia, where you got youngkin, for example, who has laid out the glossy narrative, that had a lot of appeal with a lot of folks two years ago, things have settled in now, and yes, things are still a little bit at the margins for folks, but when pressed on the point of where do we go next, and who leads us there, you know, i think joe biden has a case he can make if the democrats will get out of his way. >> tim, what do you think in virginia, tonight says for glenn youngkin and its national aspirations, if he does not get full control of the state, which he set out to do tonight, whispered under that, we have been hearing for months this guy has president risen all over him. if he does not gain control, will that change the narrative? >> i think so. i think he was planning on making announcements tomorrow. he probably has a shadow press conference planned that will get deep sixed tonight. again, he is out of step with the virginia voters, especially on the issue of choice, when he was clearly even catching a song and i was there at the end, because he did not want to talk about bans. i don't remember the goofy word he used to try to sauce it up a little bit. the reality is, he is not going to be running for president now. i think he is going to be stuck in virginia, and hopefully, when the governor's races up next, we can take him out, and i think that is, again -- we are aligned with the people on the main issues that they are thinking about today. we just got to make sure that we can communicate that the way that andy did in connecticut or get there. >> all right, then, symone sanders townsend, michael steele, and congressman tim ryan. good to see all. when we come back. we talked to two doctors about ohio voting, yes, on the ballot measures the simone was talking about to protect access to abortion and later, we mentioned the high stakes in virginia, with the entire state house up for grabs, an expert on virginia politics is here to break down what you need to know. the 11th hour, just getting underway on a very important tuesday night. the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. >> tonight, we spoke in and home of the xfinity 10g network. spent united in a historic victory across the state, we're going to bed knowing that we own our own bodies. [applause] the passing issue will be felt throughout the state and for generations to come. >> this evening, ohio voters have approved the right to abortion in the state constitution, and these results could be a preview of what we could see at the national level in less than a year. for more, let's bring in pediatric doctor lauren beene, the executive director for ohio physicians for reproductive rights and my old friend kavita patel, a clinical physician and senior policy director during the obama abomination. doctor beene, you founded this group to protect patients after roe versus way was overturned, what is this night like for you? >> this night is incredible. it's such a relief knowing that the voices of ohioans, of our patients came through, and we were able to put into law what we all knew was the right thing to do, which is that we need to make sure that our patients were in control of their own health care, and that our patients, ohioans, were making their most personal decisions, and the government was not standing in the way of those decisions being made. >> dr. patel, you and i have spoken about this not before, so i want to bring it up again. in dobbs versus jackson, the majority decision wrote the following, quote, women are not without electoral or political power. ohio responded to that quote tonight. what is your reaction to the results? >> i think it's incredible, stephanie. this is not just ohio now. if we think about all the states that we have been talking about over the last month, since michigan, its vemont, california, kansas, ohio, and this is just a preview of all the other states. i think dr. beene has underscored something that is probably not being appreciated by many, steph. this is something where doctors don't like to be put into political limelight. it's not something we're comfortable with. we love being in the intimate moments with our patients, but as he read the quote, a moment that intimacy, that autonomy, that ability for a woman to tell us what is happening, for us to act on what is in her best interest, that is when we have to draw the line, and i think you're seeing that. it's incredible the obstacles that dr. beene and her colleagues had to overcome, citizen's petition, every level raising the bar, and they made that tonight. >> doctor beene, talk to us more about the abortion debate in ohio. how has it affected your patients? >> so, when the dobbs decision came down, and our trigger ban went into effect seven hours later on june 24, 2022, with no warning, suddenly, abortion was illegal after the point in which cardiac activity could be detected in fetal heart cells, which is approximately six weeks. that led to what was really a medical disaster in our state for the 82 days during which that ban was in place. people were not able to get reproductive health care. there were women who were recently diagnosed with cancer, who also found out they were pregnant. those women were not able to start chemotherapy, because they were pregnant, and they were not able to get abortion in ohio, which wasn't absolutely horrendous. there are people who have had to leave the state because they were carrying pregnancies that were non viable, and were only placing a risk to the women's health to continue carrying the pregnancies, but they could not get the care that they needed in ohio, and they had to leave the state. as a general pediatrician, i had conversations with my patients and their mothers and fathers, who were scared for their children. what does this mean for my children and their safety and their future? should we be starting our children on birth control to. protect them in case they are assaulted sexually? it was horrible, and those days in ohio, when the ban was in place, it was so traumatizing for everybody in our state. people, patients, and doctors included, that really set off a real movement in our state, a grassroots movement that has culminated in us being able to actually put into our constitution protections -- we're going to keep fighting, but it will be okay. >> i want folks to turn up the volume for this, because it -- and tonight, when they announced, it when we knew we had been successful, he was so incredible and overwhelming and powerful to see that, you know, what the will of the people's prevailing. and it's going to be okay. we're going to keep fighting, but it will be okay. >> i want folks to turn up the volume for this, because it really matters. kavita, i want to play some of what we've heard from governor glenn youngkin, watch this. >> i will back a bill to protect life at 15 weeks. we will make sure that people understand that is when a baby feels pain, and that is where we can come together as virginians with four exceptions in the case of rape and incest, when a mother's life is at risk. the other side wants to extend abortion all the way through up to birth. >> i feel pain listening to that i. for facts sake, no democrat are rooting for abortions up until birth. doctor patel, can you please give our audience the facts? >> there is nobody to is rooting -- let's be clear that that myth has been something that has been propagated and used as this kind of a wedge to basically instill fear into people and thinking through, this is open season, and that democrats have absolutely no understanding. by the way, basic biology, i want to say, where the governor comes off talking about 15 weeks of feeling pain and having these strict demarcations that they want you to believe that somehow that there are no other nuances around a woman's pregnancy, that is the lie that is being propagated. i think on top of that is that now we have seen, not just in ohio, not just in so many states around the country post opposite, but we have understood very clearly what is at stake, that women are literally dying in order to just get their basic health care needs met. so by pushing forward these lies, it kind of boils my blood as a position to see this. and then at what we have been seeing across the country just tonight, to have him double down on something, it's pretty unconscionable. and sticking in that with the exceptions of rape and incest, you and i have spoken about the fact that putting people through that and having law enforcement intercede into this is exactly the opposite of what we want. we just want basic health care. that is what democrats are for. >> doubling down on a lie. glenn youngkin knows there are no 38 week pregnant women walking around deciding should i deliver this baby or maybe i'll have an abortion instead? that is an outright lie. dr. beene, dr. patel, thank you for being here. coming up, steve kornacki is standing by with brand new election night results, when the 11th hour continues. meet the portable blender we can barely keep in stock. blendjet 2 gives you ice-crushing, big blender power on-the-go. so you can blend up a mouthwatering smoothie, protein shake, or latte wherever you are! recharge quickly with any usb port. best of all, it even cleans itself! just blend water with a drop of soap. what are you waiting for? order yours now from blendjet.com before they sell out again! in a crisis caused by a terrorist massacre. warning civilians to clear out, while hamas forces them back. allowing in food and water, which hamas steals. >> we got breaking election results just in, so let's check in with steve kornacki at the big board. steve, what do you know? >> stephanie, it's about virginia and that battle for the state legislator. we told you a minute ago, the democrats are one mercy away from join the state senate. they've got and that see. the ap has not called that 21st for democrats in the state senate. that will give them continued control of the chamber. republicans have been trying to flip this. they spent tons of money, millions of dollars in the attempt to do so, but now, there are still uncalled races, but democrats have reached the number, the magic number of 21, able to obtain control of the state senate, and then meanwhile, in the other chamber, let's get over to the house delegates here, again, republicans came into the night controlling it. democrats now, we see one more from republicans, but according to the ap, democrats have 48 seats are now. if they get to 50, it becomes a power sharing agreement. neither party really controls 50, and a sense, it be a win for democrats, because it would knock republicans out of full control of a power sharing it, but there are actually four districts are now where democrats are leading. there is a pretty clear path that exist right now. we'll see if they can take, it but there is a pass on paper to exist for democrats not to have 50 but the big o beyond it and gain control of the chamber. to end the night, actually, in control of both houses of the state legislator in virginia. the other thing that we're keeping an eye on is mississippi. say alabama, there is a real rivalry there. mississippi, to be clear, and again, the question would take reeves, he's gotten closer, now a six and a half point difference, but that's because we got a big batch of votes from heinz county, where jackson, the state capital is, the biggest county in that state, overwhelmingly democratic. with that, presley has narrowed the gap, but it is still a six and a half point gap with more than 80% of people in right now. again, the story has been, we can show you counties in the state pressley has overperformed relative to how democrats did in 2019, it targets that he would need to hit tonight, but we can also show you places, where reeves has countered by over performing himself, perhaps no place merger medically than in madison county, right outside jackson, fourth largest city state. democrats won this county in 2019. it was a big breakthrough for them, first time in more than two decades that they want to. 94%, looks like reefs is actually going to bounce back and win this county. this time, democrats had been hoping to just wind it, expand on their margin here. again, if you're a republican, you're feeling very good about reaves finishing the night ahead of pressley, and the on the authentic question then is this reefs finish the night ahead or over 50%? that is what he needs to do to avoid the runoff, and i think seeing democrats kind of running out of opportunities here, if you're republican, you're started to feel optimistic that reeves can do that, can finish above 50% and won reelection outright tonight. joining me now to discuss, steve weigel, political reporter for center fold, and larry sabato, a university of virginia professor and presidential historian. larry, this is her state, so at the start with virginia. it was just this weekend that the richmond time dispatch wrote, anything less than full restoration of republican control of the general assembly would be viewed as an absolute defeat for youngkin, who doesn't as much play to win as not to lose. looks like youngkin will speak tonight, right? >> oh, he lost very big. in fact, the democrats are going to take the house of delegates. it will be better than a 50/50 split. they'll have a majority, so democrats will know in all probability, will control both houses legislator. which means, the second half, gagnon's one for your term, will not be noted for legislative achievements. he has said, 100 times, including on your air, that he is very humbled that he's been mentioned for the presidency. tonight, he was indeed humbled, absolutely humbled. i don't think we'll be seeing that up in the air for very long. >> dave, what do you think? >> i agree with him, and this campaign, i think it's been up in the air. the youngkin campaign, the cordon of the campaign from republicans, set out this goal of more than a year ago, starting in august, to frame this election around a 15-week abortion ban, something that youngkin favored for a long time. you can go back and check the record, there's reporting on it. we had focus groups, 15 weeks a winner, we're going to show if you run on 15 weeks, abortion ban, you can convince people that democrats are radicals. it did not happen. the election is the election. i don't know how many more times you need the proof of this. there is not an obvious strategy for republicans to win this, unless they are incumbents, alas brian kemp signed, for the reasons that they might have an ohio, convincing voters to change election law, -- abortion law when you're not in power, it's not been a winner for them. >> larry, let's talk about andy beshear winning reelection, what is your take there? >> nobody thinks that this is going to make kentucky competitive in presidential races, certainly not the one next year, but it's a significant victory, and it's remarkable that beshear has been able to expand considerably on these narrow margin of victory four years ago, a remarkably unpopular republican governor incumbent. i think he has done so well that he has shown democrats how you can win rural areas while not abandoning all the democratic positions. he has most of them, maybe not in the energy field but most of the others. i think he has put himself on a long list of potential presidential and vice presidential candidates in 2028. >> dave, do you agree? >> i think he has. this is something that republicans worry about. for republicans like glenn youngkin, you want the party to kill your opponent into cradle, so he can't accrue more power, accrue more wins. bashear confronts a republican legislator, give him some bills that he ended up vetoing, that he ran against him on. he is going to govern the way the governor has outnumbered the other party has governed, which is popular. not the ability to do anything that might alienate voters. is the ability to pass tax cuts. he is going to remain in this conversation, and i think there will be a lot of where the study of what he did, because i remember talking to push for a year ago, at the democratic association, it was clear that republicans are tried to pin to the wall trans rights, gender medicine for minors, on abortion. it is very confident that he would win the election, and he did. democrats will take lessons, and i think talk about what this guy will ever future in the party. >> larry, what is a big takeaway tonight? >> my takeaway is that this was a very good night for democrats, even in mississippi, they came closer than expected, even though it has not been declared at. maybe there will be an upset. they've done reasonably well. everywhere else, they've done extremely well. they either got their position ratified and yet another red state on abortion rights, or they won the candidate races that really counted that limited the republicans or clipped their wings to a certain degree. i don't think it could have gotten better for democrats than it did. >> all right dan, dave weigel, larry sabato, thank you for being here tonight, i appreciate it. when we come back, one of trump's loudest critics on capitol hill mixes exit from politics, he is reflecting on the republican party that was. the journalist behind mitt romney's new biography joins us on what mitch likely thinks about tonight and the future of his party, when the 11th hour continues. i got this $1,000 camera for only $41 on dealdash. dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. you deserve better than that. i'm hungry, i'm in a hurry, i don't have time to make anything healthy. you could if you had a blendjet. blendjet? it's the portable blender that makes the healthy choice the most convenient choice. i don't know. it seems like a hassle. hahaha! wrong. just pour in some milk, add some frozen fruit, and bam! you've got a nutritious and delicious smoothie. mmm! that is good. you're welcome, sad office guy. get yours today at blendjet.com are we in in an ad? we sure are. >> the republican party today is in the shadow of donald trump. it's a populace, i believe, demagogue portion of the party. arizona a small wing of the party. if you will, i call the wise wing of the republican party. >> donald trump continues to cast that shadow over the republican party, even when he's not there. we are less than 24 hours away from the third republican debate, and the front runner will be absent yet again. of the five candidates who will participate, only chris christie is campaigning like he actually wants to beat donald trump. with us is mckay coppins, staff writer at the atlantic and author of the new must read book, romney, in reckoning. mckay, i'm so happier here but especially tonight, because the current republican party keeps pushing out the likes of liz cheney and mitt romney, what mitt said, i caught the wise po party, but look at elections. last midterm, tonight, that is not a general voting audience is looking for. >> yeah, this is the thing that mitt romney can to realize over the course of the two years of interviews that we did for this book. i remember at the beginning, he still had this hope that he might be able to steer the party away from trumpism, and by the time that we finished our interview earlier this year, he was talking about how his party was increasingly shedding thoughtful people, consider people, the people that love others, this words, what was left was a core of angry individuals and then institutions that seemed designed to keep them that way. i think what we see a nights like tonight, it is the result of a party whose personality was character was alienating regular people, and really seemed increasingly built around just a trumpian wing of the party that does not make up a majority of the country. >> one point, who told you, quote, a very large portion of the party really does not believe in the constitution. how do we deal with that with reality? >> you know, mitt romney spent several years in the senate trying to push back against that reality. he believed that he could empower the same people in his party, the ones who did not believe in democracy and pluralism and the rule of law. he had this idea that maybe the trump era would be a fluke. after january six, it was sort of a radicalizing moment for him. he basically realized that we are at a moment where half the country, or at least a large portion of the country's enthralled to a man who does not believe in the constitution, is willing to, they're willing to defend him and let him off the hook for the. i don't know that mitt romney has a solution. look, he's retiring in part because he does not siena media path towards getting the predicament, but he is hoping that the next generation of republican leaders will figure it out, because he is alarmed about what his party has become and what it means for the country's health. >> okay, that is when a question. he says he is very worried, concerned, retiring, but he is hopeful about the future. are you buying the? why is he hopeful when he's walking out the door? >> yeah, hopefully see. i think that over the course of our conversations, he would vacillate back and forth. there were times when his pessimism seemed to get the best of him, and he seemed so deeply frustrated with what his party have become, that he felt like he could no longer associate with it. by the end of our interviews, he was really saying, i don't have a hope in this party anymore. i don't belong here. he talks about the wise wing of the party. i don't know if you can call that a wing of the party anymore, alison romney's perception, but he is trying to hold on to hope. he understands that fatalism and defeatism is not a strategy other, and i think that the country needs to healthy political parties. we just don't have that right now, so he is open to ideas. every time i went over to his sauce this, year i felt like he had some new plan to start a third party or run as a republican or run as an independent presidential candidate. all of these plans would end up getting tabled eventually, but he is always trying to scheme some new idea, because he believes the fate of democracy in america really does hinge on reforming the republican party. >> so i am guessing that you are still in communication with him. since your book came out with myths heart, soul and message, what is it like for him to go to work every day? >> i think it's a little awkward. i think that is fair to say. this book has is very candid and often withering view. a lot of his republican colleagues in the senate, a lot of prominent republicans, some running for president right now, he did not hold back with me. he gave me his journals that include many candid reflections on those people. look, i think that he is pretty isolated in the party, and he was isolated before, but even more so now. i think he is okay with that because he sees the book as an opportunity to issue a warning about what is going on behind the scenes, that is more important to him, i think, than being friends with some of his senate colleagues. >> all right dan, mckay coppins, extraordinary reporting, extraordinary book. he gave you his journals. that is next level, my friend. great to see you, thank you for being here. you are home, you can catch me and the rest of the msnbc team right here at the staple, a much bigger what tomorrow night, because we'll be breaking down the gop debate, that special coverage starts right here at ten pm eastern, let by my colleague rachel maddow. and on that, i wish you a very, very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late with me. i'll see again tomorrow. in a crisis caused by a terrorist massacre. warning civilians to clear out, while hamas forces them back. allowing in food and water, which hamas steals.
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