remove fulton county district attorney fani willis, slamming the request from republicans as, quote, political theater. >> up to this point, i have not seen any evidence that d.a. willis's actions, or lack thereof, weren't absent by the prosecuting attorney oversight commission. in georgia, we will not be engaging in political theater that only inflames the motions of the moment. we will do what is right, we will uphold our oaths as public servants. and it's my belief that our state will be better off for it. >> also this week, a judge ruling trump's georgia trial can be televised. so if lewis gets the start date she wants, trump's georgia legal fight will be coming to a screen near you on october 23rd. the former president already has a trial date in washington d.c.. he will face off with federal prosecutors just one day before super tuesday, in the january 6th case, more than three years after the capitol riot. this comes as the doj secures some of the longest january 6th sentences yet, including ten years for a member of the proud boys, who smashed a window at the capitol. far-right extremist, dominic pezzola, cried in front of the judge, then pumped his fist and yelled, trump won, as he left court. that moment of defiance, sounding a lot like trump himself. the former president's social media rant still showing no remorse, even when a frenzy of 3m posts suggest he might be awake thinking about prison. joining me now, monique pressley, former senior assistant attorney general in washington d.c.. she's the host of the daily digital show, make it make sense, with monique pressley. msnbc political analyst, david jolly, he's a former republican congressman for florida. and democratic strategist, desiree tims, cheese the president and ceo of innovation ohio law, and a former democratic congressional candidate. thank all of you for joining me. moneek, i want to start with you, you are saying today trump's super pac is running out of money for his legal defense. says, quote, his chief and has spent nearly all of the more than 100 and $50 million it raised and is sitting on less than $4 million. so how much more will trump need to survive for criminal cases? >> the amount is staggering. the amount is absolutely staggering. i don't think that it can even be quantified at this time. because it's not just a question of having enough lawyers to show up in a courtroom and represent him, it's the scores of lawyers that are necessary right now to be going over millions of pages of documents, to be doing privilege reviews, to final motions, all of that, it seems, is going to be at a quite price per hour. the real shame of it, from my point of view, secretary castro, is that the millions that have already been spent, those are taxpayer dollars. those are fundraising dollars that were raised by people who wanted to support the presidency of mr. trump. instead, are paying legal fees. >> again, to that point, there's so much resources going into defending donald trump. and of course, we are going to find out what is there at the end of the road. what do you, what are the years-long sentences for the proud boys that we saw this week, signal to you about potential prison time for trump, if he's convicted? >> i think that prison time is an a surety, unless there is a negotiation, but i think that the negotiation is also a strong possibility. it seems to me that the department of justice has an interest in ensuring the safety of this country long term. finding president trump guilty, and putting him in prison, when our constitution doesn't provide that a person can't be president when they are found guilty, and can't be president from a jail cell, is not the most effective play, i don't believe. i would expect that as we get further along, and as it becomes more and more of a reality to the former president, that it is likely that he is going to spend real time in a federal penitentiary or a state one, that that is when the bargaining will begin. >> david, to that point of time, how damaging will it be for trump's campaign for him to be potentially stuck in court on super tuesday, and throughout the primary season? >> yeah, that's a great question of the entire race now is one of timing. trial and court timing, court calendar versus the political one. i do think though, donald trump, at this point, based on the outlook at the republican nomination, will have the gop nomination secured before we really see an impact of him being on trial. the nomination will likely be secured in the first week or two of march, unless the race appreciably changes. we just haven't seen that. the question then becomes, a donald trump on trial in the general election, possibly even a conviction in one of the cases, that would be an aggressive calendar. what does that look like for a general election? and what does it mean for a possible sentencing? it is the reason donald trump continues to try to delay, not just to protect his own freedom, but the idea of a trial, a possible conviction, is the great unknown in his political fortunes right now. when he does know, what is known, is the indictment and the charges of him. a trial though, is an unknown. >> desiree, trump used his booking number in georgia as a fundraising target, and it worked, by the way. bringing in two point $3 million. what can democrats do to offset this free publicity trump is getting from these indictments that seem to be helping him with his gop base? >> that's right. every time donald trump is in the press, pictured in court, the republican base, the extreme portion, they are fired up. and they are contributing dollars to donald trump. a lot of it is those low dollar donors. on the other hand, democrats, we know a lot of the court cases and individuals are going to be of january 6th, a lot of americans across the country remember where they were when they saw hundreds of proud boys descending on different offices on the capitol, in capitol hill. so i think what democrats can do is really talk about, and show that narrative of what an extreme agenda, and what an attack on democracy, and on the american government looks like. we are going to have an opportunity to have that play out, not just from our mouths and from our base, but from court, in court. the pictures, the narratives, and a lot of the transcripts that will come out of that will probably offer a lot of gems to the biden campaign. >> no doubt. moneek, former trump chief of staff and fellow codefendant, mark meadows, is fighting to move his trail from georgia to federal court in washington d.c.. why do you think trump hasn't made the same request to move his? >> because they are sitting back and watching, and seeing if it's successful. if it's successful for meadows, then it will be successful for certainly the president. because the arguments are the same. and also, because there's no way that the former president who lies the same way that he breathed, could get on the stand as meadows did. which still, i'm staggered by the fact that they did. but there is no way that the former president, in a similar hearing, could take the stand and testify on his own behalf. there's nobody else who is going to step forward and do it. so they didn't really have a choice. but to sit back and watch and see, see if the stand that meadows took, see if the favorability with the judge is such, that the loss on his side, in which case it will surely be for the president. >> david, meadows is arguing that election interference in georgia fell within his official duties, according to him. author chris whipple calls that a warning for trump's second term, he says, quote, all guardrails will be gone. your thoughts? >> i agree with that opinion. donald trump gets elected, i think he will strain the constitution in ways we have not yet imagined. there's a question whether or not we and his four years intact as the republic that we started as. in terms of mark meadows argument, look, i think he is threading a needle, and hoping for a favorable outcome. the late person would say this doesn't make any sense. you are a government official, but you are interfering with candidate trump's campaign. there's no way that makes sense. there are some arguments he's been making, julian you served, so you know, this a chief of staff could take a position that, look, i did everything the president did. i followed him everywhere he went. my job was to support him. perhaps he can thread the needle there. but he kind of defies logic, that a government official interfering in a campaign suggests that somehow this was in furtherance of their government drop. that is what he wants, because he absolutely wants this removed to federal court. >> desiree, my last question is for you. governor kemp actually broke with his fellow republicans by allowing the fulton county case to continue. how do you see that divide in the georgia gop factoring into the 2024 race? >> i absolutely see the divide, because governor kemp understands what it is like to be on the opposite side of donald trump's good side. so, unlike what's happening in florida with governor desantis, governor kemp has decided to draw a line in the sand. i don't know how long that will play out, but at least we are seeing good behavior right now. what we do know is that a lot of republican secretary of state's, and a lot of other republican governors are going to side with trump, because he continues to leave the republican race. my question is for republicans, what happens, and what do you do? where is your moral compass going to be once we reach the general election time? >> monique pressley, grassiest. thank you. david and desiree, you all are staying around. a growing number of states think the constitution could keep trump off the ballot, are they right? plus, senate majority leader, chuck schumer, says bipartisanship is the only way to keep our government running. but house republicans like marjorie taylor greene have other plans. putting us on a collision course for a government shutdown. but first, richard lui, who is standing by with a look at other big stories we are watching this hour on msnbc. richard? >> julian, good evening to you. president biden and the first lady toured hurricane damage today in florida. the president calling congress to pass legislation to help residents rebuild their. former new mexico governor and congressman, bill richardson, has died, in his sleep last night. at his summer home in massachusetts. richardson also served as human ambassador, energy secretary during the clay to administration. he was 75. and acclaimed singer jimmy buffett has also died at the age of 76. here's nbc's joe fire on his storied career. >> ♪ ♪ ♪ >> for more than half a century, jimmy buffett lived what he's saying about. proudly building a billion dollar career around beach far anthems like margaritaville. >> ♪ ♪ ♪ >> it's 5:00 somewhere. and cheeseburger in paradise. more than a musician, buffett embodied a lifestyle. breezy slacker happy to waste the day away, carefree, frozen cocktail in hand. born in mississippi, buffett would find his sound in the lady that rhythms of florida to key west. a counter point to the so-called yuppie generation, buffets blend of tropical rock found a region of fans known as parrot heads, flocking to his concerts in mass, dressed in hawaiian shorts and flip-flops. a jimmy buffett song come to life. >> i think everybody needs a little -- a stockbroker, a hedge fund manager, you see people coming from work. taking their ties off and putting their hawaiian shirts over their suits. >> ovaries, greer buffett sold more than 20 million albums, all that fun in the sun paid off, and not just in record sales. buffett became a billion dollar brand, opening jimmy buffett's margaritaville restaurants across the u.s.. selling books, beers, real estate, popping up in movies. inspiring a broadway show. all the while, he never lost his laid back charm, revealing in 2018, his secret to having fun. >> it's lucky to have this job. i think the older you get and do it, the more you appreciate it. >> buffett him self once said, if there's a heaven for me, i'm sure it has a beach attached. parrot heads the world over no, that is the icons paradise. ♪ (man) that looks really high. 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how they get jobs, that's what a dei program comes front. >> i understand where they come from. i'm against it because it causes us to see one another on the basis of our skin color. i can tell you from personal experience, i have hired both in businesses i founded, even in this campaign, people who are black executives, who have, i think, been unfairly judged. i put them in those positions because of merit. other people at the companies and otherwise have seen those people as getting that position because of racial quota systems. >> desiree, what are your thoughts on ramaswamy trying to position himself as yet another anti-woke candidate here? >> i think he's failing at it, we have a lot of receipts showing that he has accepted a lot of dei contracts. what we heard in that clip was him taking what clarence thomas approach in trying to water down dei. which he benefits from, by the way, and has benefited from, and continues to benefit from. but he's all about harming other people. it worked for me, but you can't have any. that extremism, unfortunately, that same rhetoric is really rousing to the republican base. the same small low dollar donors are giving to donald trump, they're also giving to vivek, because that's something that excites them. he's brown, he gets to wear this mask that says, okay, he agrees with us. so it's not racist. basically, what is happening, and we are going to continue to see very extremist policies being put forward, like we are seeing in florida, ohio, texas, striking down educational initiatives because of this rhetoric. it is very dangerous to the future of democracy. >> david, speaking of anti woke candidates, let's talk about florida governor, ron desantis. earlier this summer, a 15 year old asked desantis if he believed trump violated the peaceful transfer of power during the 2020 presidential race. desantis dodged the question, and later had security a cost to the teen at several subsequent campaign events. if desantis is this threatened by a 15 year old asking him questions, what does that tell you about his ability to actually run our country? >> yeah julian, ron desantis suffers from the vanities of donald trump in the paranoia of richard nixon. that personality extends to those people around him. it is the culture, if you will, of his campaign. so that story goes even further, that is the 15 year old showed up to apologize or tried to ask additional questions, security targeted him and try to keep him separated from the president. then the first lady of governor accused the boy of lying, and addressing the boy's mom. so if you want a glimpse at huron desantis's, that is kind of the perfect story. i think, politically, the question is, if he has such strength that he is willing to attack a 15 year old, why is he not willing to exercise that strength to attack donald trump? because i think what set the tone for ron desantis's entire campaign, is that moment on the stage where the candidates were asked will you support donald trump if he is a criminal conduct? -- he had to look around at his peers, and ultimately said yes, i will support him if he's a criminal convict. so he has expressed their. bring up in realtime what happened today, joe biden comes to florida, for hurricane recovery efforts to replenish the support of the government. ron desantis shrinks away and won't be seen with the president when the president is offering aid. but he will say i am going to vote for donald trump if he's a criminal conduct. it tells you all you need to know about why he's now 40 points behind the former president. >> desiree, let's turn to what's happening in trump land. do you think there's any possibility that the 14th amendment could keep him off the ballot, in some of these states? >> i want to be optimistic, but honestly, i'm not. i don't think that will happen, unless he is convicted. and prior to be ballots being printed. then the question comes down to which republican led states are going to follow through on what they are saying, if he is already at the time the nominee for the republican party. now, if he's not the nominee for the republican party, then i can certainly see this playing out. not just in blue states, but in several red states, where these republican elected officials won't be as intimidated by former president donald trump. but as of today, right now, a number of them are still fighting for his endorsement. these people are still elected officials, they're running for reelection. they themselves want the endorsement. so until you have the power taking away from donald trump, and from these candidates and elected officials who need his support so that they can get a base to turn out to vote for them, i don't think you are going to see them turn on him, just yet. >> david, in the minute that we have left, you saw the poll. what do you think is behind trump's growing popularity with that gop base? even as he wraps up these four indictments. >> part of it is the cultural, political movement that donald trump parked in the republican party. at the beginning of the hour, you threaded brian kemp and georgia to the proud boy sentencing, the and the motion that georgia republicans want to interfere with donald trump's criminal conviction. as someone is being sentenced, they raised their fist and say trump won. that movement is real. but secondly, as this notion that, again, go back to ron desantis and the other candidate that said free [inaudible] i will support him if he's a criminal conduct. but you shouldn't, mr. and mrs. voter, you should support me instead. it's a false argument, you can't make the argument anymore. he's been bullied just not by republican voters, but by the republican candidates challenging him for the presidency. >> desiree tims, thank you. david, you are actually pulling triple duty with us tonight. i know that you're going to be back one more time. still to come, meeting the moment, congress has listed a monk to keep our government running. -- overshadow the people's business. but first, accountability in the high court. they have the final say. but who keeps them in check? 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liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ frustrated by skin tags? dr. scholl's has the breakthrough you've been waiting for. the first fda-cleared at-home skin tag remover clinically proven to remove skin tags safely in as little as one treatment. >> justice is samuel alito and clarence thomas are giving us a better glimpse into the gifts and trips they've taken from republican donors. thursday, justice thomas disclosed he had taken three trips last year on a private plane owned by conservative megadonor, harlan crow. this included a vacation to the adirondacks, a conference at one of crows properties, and one after the dobbs decision was leaked. thomas says he flew private after the dobbs decision because of the, quote, increased security risk. sure. for months now, lawmakers have called for greater accountability, in the code of ethics for the supreme court. after the slew of reporting on alito and thomas his lack of financial transparency. here with me now to discuss is chris geidner, he's an author and editor at law dork news, as well as an msnbc columnist. chris, thank you for joining me. in so many jobs, and folks watching can relate to this. workers need to sign documents saying they have no conflicts of interest. why is the supreme court to not treated like other workplaces? >> this is now a problem that we've seen how aggressively the justices protect their interest to handle their own ethics, without oversight. we've seen the way that even chief justice roberts, who has sort of portrayed himself as this great institutionalist for the past decade, and especially during the trump administration, he refused to even go to the hill for a senate hearing on a supreme court ethics. they really want to protect this interest with these reports that we saw from particularly from justice thomas. but also from justice alito. we are kind of seeing why they don't want other people to be too much in their business. >> let's dig in a little bit on some of the finer details of the disclosure. jennie thomas, is also mentioned in justice thomas's disclosure. what do we know about those finances and bank accounts? >> i mean, we don't know much more than what he said in the report, which was that was a section that i mentioned another time, that the word inadvertently appears 16 times in justice thomas's addendum to his report, explaining these changes. and additions. but with a lot of those inadvertently's appeared in that section, talking about those bank accounts. basically, they said, oh, we didn't realize that they were supposed to be in these reports. so here they are. they had increased in their value over time, but we don't know what they, where that money came from. we don't know much more than what thomas told us. >> now, justice samuel alito also disclosed some of the favors he accepted from conservative donors. what can you tell us about what he disclosed? >> i mean, the big thing that i think that justice alito disclosed was the fact that he still owns individual stock in 25 private companies, at least, by my count. those include things like boeing, they include things like abbott laboratories. they include things like raytheon, johnson & johnson, procter & gamble. and while justice alito may recuse himself from cases involving those companies, it sort of is beyond belief to think that when he is involved in cases that might not involve those specific companies, but do involve those companies interests. it just shows how irresponsible it is for a justice, at this point, to still be holding individual stocks. >> john eastman, an ally of trump, of course, who has been indicted as well, signed an open letter alleging justice thomas's conduct is, quote, unimpeachable. now is he really the kind of signature that you want on that? >> i mean, what -- his signature, and some of the other names on that go to show as much as anything else, what -- sort of, the audacity of everybody, from thomas, to eastman on down to all of the other clark's, former clerks who have signed this letter. that there is just this expectation that because they believe that he is a nice guy, and they believe that his ethics are beyond reproach, that the failure to be more transparent with the public about these things, that we shouldn't somehow see that as something inappropriate in and of itself. even if the favor that he is getting aren't themselves unethical, which i think we could obviously argue that they, in and of themselves, are. >> i chris geidner, thank you. still to come, the life and legacy of bill richardson. i'll share a conversation i had with the former new mexico governor and beloved democrat after news of his passing today, at the age of 76. but right after this break, the peoples business, and if congress can meet the moment to keep our government running past september. that cold water can't clean. - food fight!! - food fight!! ♪♪ cold water, on those stains? 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>> we know that they likely are going to have a tough time in the house, when they get their. speaker, kevin mccarthy is going to be dealing with a lot going into this next session coming out of the august recess. regardless of what the senate has already passed. republicans have already indicated that they are not sure they would even be willing to back a short term stopgap measure to extend the deadline that we are facing to fund the government. we are going to see this front and center as congress comes back next week, with the debate really heating up. it is hard to see how this gets resolved, in any quick manner. we've already reported to axios that there are some republicans in the house who we are expecting to have to get democrats on their side to vote for any short term measure. >> david, let's talk about the split screen playing out in congress. the senate, plotting along, trying to get the people's business done. while the house threatens to shut down the government if the far-right freedom caucus doesn't get its way. how do you think that is going to end? >> badly for republicans. i think it's important to put into context what is at stake here, what are we dealing with. so in june, we saw the brink of the debt limit default, and whether or not america would pay its bills. republicans finally agreed to terms with the white house on it. but that vote actually put kevin mccarthy's speakership in jeopardy. it was not a win that conservatives want. fast forward to now. what is at stake, it's keeping the government open. october one is when the fiscal year begins. we have four weeks now to retake the budget deal. republicans are not going to agree to a deal by october one. they want to play with fire on this one. part of it is this movement within the republican party that went from the less government ideology of 20 and 30 years ago, to no government as the tea party emerged. now government is the enemy. they truly want to just shut it all down. so, kevin mccarthy is dealing with a caucus where he can only lose five votes. you simply cannot move your entire caucus towards compromise, and kevin mccarthy can't do it without jeopardizing his speakership. so what president biden has indicated is he wants a short term deal. he does not want to take the nations spending to the brink. but i think republicans are willing to play chicken with this, and ultimately they will affirm the chaotic nature of the house caucus right now. >> david, you mentioned the precarious position that speaker mccarthy is in. only five votes to spare. so what are his options here? walk us through how he might approach this, if in fact he wants to keep the government open. >> i had to say this, julian, his option is to impeach joe biden. this runs all the way back to the 15 votes it took for him to become speaker. and what did he promised? he promised the republican impeachment caucus that they could go after joe biden. and the politics are going to be there, the pressure is going to be there. so the way he holds his speakership is going to be by investigating joe biden, because ultimately, just as with the debt limit, to pay our bills and to keep the government open, he's going to have to compromise with democrats, and then republican hard lamps. that's a death for his speakership to compromise with democrats. but he will have to. and how does he survive as speaker? he goes after joe biden with a full blown investigation regardless of the fact that the facts don't support it. you're saying there's either going to be in it impeachment attempt at joe biden, or there is going to be a different speaker, is what you are saying. step, let's switch over to the senate. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell is dealing with renewed speculation about his health, after he froze up again this week. what kind of expectations are there for his involvement in key senate discussions, as congress reconvenes? >> i mean, he is obviously going to be a key player, especially going into this season of above it negotiations. and i think everybody is going to be watching very closely to see how he comes back from this latest incident. of course, the last time this happened he came back very aggressively, showing that he was very willing and able to work, and so we'll be watching to see kind of how that plays out next week. but this again raises questions around age of our lawmakers and leaders of this country, in a way that i don't think is going away. it won't go away as we go into this busy next few weeks in congress in the senate, and also as we go into 2024 elections, where this issue of age continues to come up and be a topic of discussion. >> how are other members of congress reacting to the uncertainty surrounding mcconnell's health? >> you know, we have seen a lot of support for mcconnell at this point. so far we've seen many republicans and even democrats, even president biden himself, coming out and trying to show their support. but of course there's going to be concerns behind the scenes since this is not a one-time incident. we're continuing to see this happen over and over again, and of course we've seen similar concerns with a dianne feinstein, who also has been unable to show up and help democrats push through their judicial nomination. so they're certainly concerned about this issue, but at least publicly we've seen most people kind of come to mcconnell's defense, and at least expressed concern for his health and optimism. >> steph and david jolly, thank you both. next, interest on student loans is beginning again. they're back after 800,000 americans just saw their debt vanished under president biden. what happens next? 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