male victims and one female victim. all of the deceased victims are black. the shooter had all heard several manifestos, one to his parents, one of the media, and one to federal agents. portions of his manifestos detail of the shooters disgusting ideology of hate. bluntly put, this shooting was racially motivated and he hated black people. >> the shooter then turned the gun on snow himself and shot himself. no other individuals were injured in the attack. the suspected shooter, according to police, saint manifesto's detailing racial hatred to law enforcement, to media outlets, and to his parents. the fbi has said it is now investigating this attack as a hate crime. moments go, we learned that president biden has been briefed on the shooting. msnbc news correspondent marissa parra has the latest. >> a dollar general store in jacksonville, florida has become a crime scene after a shooting spree it local sheriff's office coles racially motivated. they say a white man turned at gun on three black people, killing them, before turning it on himself. they detailed a manifesto that was sent to local law enforcement as well as local media, even his, unparalleled in his desire to kill black people. using the n-word several times. this press conference was illuminating and disturbing. they also could help swastikas draw on guns that this trigger was carrying on his body. still so many questions and native answering but nonetheless a community left grieving for yet another gun violence tragedy. >> all right, nbc news correspondent --, thank you for that. let's bring into the conversation jim kavanaugh, msnbc terrorism analyst who's joining us on the phone. also with me, eddie glug junior, msnbc political analyst and chair of the african american studies department at princeton university. jim, i'll start with you. authorities are not identifying the suspect just yet. they did reveal that he is a white male in his early twenties. they found his manifesto's, one that was sent to his family, one to the public, one to federal agencies. the sheriff said very clearly, quote, that he hated black people. let's talk a little bit about what we know at this hour. how unusual is it to have this much information as a motive at this point, and when do you think they will be able to release his identity? >> i'd say we'll probably have his identity this evening sometime. the sheriff, the detectives are all over it. the federal agents, they'll be released pretty soon. he's a guy brimming with hate. he's -- and he's pulling over with hate. i've been around these guys, i've been around these guys, and the kids keep it in side. it spews out of them verbally, it comes out of their dismal writing, their manifesto's, their creeds, and really they are the rare ones that can keep it close. there are some, there's a few. timothy mcvay's out there that can keep things close. but for the most part, these soldiers, if you will, of the hate movement, that are indicated by how do i describe it? a diaspora or a fantasy community in their mind, they may not have met all these others, only talk to them on the internet and shared screens, and talk about all the things in their movements and things that they hate. but there is supported by that. and what's so important to understand is people say their lone wolf's or i say i'm mad dog, they're not alone. they're supported. it fit turns out this guy is a member of an organized group, a clean, and not see group, or he could not be. but he's still supported by that american wide -- and it's also worldwide apparatus of hate. so, he's being supported in his beliefs and then he turns himself into nothing more than a sniffling loser coward that kills innocent people. and it's just a heartbreaking day. a said day for the anniversary of the civil rights march. -- all over the country, all over the south my whole career. and they're not going away. it's unfortunate, we just try to reduce their numbers and try to let the public know that law enforcement is behind the public and behind them, and once to catch these guys, wants to put them in jail, wants to get all of them that are committing crimes and hurting our citizens. so the public needs to know that. i think the sheriff's doing a good job telling them that. >> jim, the fbi says that it is already investigating this as a hate crime based on the manifestos that they have in their possession. but talk to me a little bit about the overall threat that is emerging in this country as a result of white supremacy. it's always been here, but are you concerned now with the lone wolf radicalization, if you will, this is an expression we've learned about a lot dealing with foreign terrorism when it comes to this country. but now in this country we're seeing perhaps this young man, as you were saying, self radicalized or self indoctrinated into this hateful ideology based on what he's read, and inspired by perhaps other attacks. but how concerned should we be about the rise of white supremacy? >> well, we should be very concerned. because it is on the rise, the internet has given it a lot of fuel, and i went back at one point i counted all the civil rights murders that were on the mom you meant in alabama. i counted the number of people killed, i can't remember exactly, but it was over a period of a dozen or more years and it was probably 35 people. i went to her current time to about 2009, and we'd have more than 55 people killed by white supremacists and white nationalists. so we are in a period, really, if we open our eyes, that more people are being killed by white nationalists then during the civil rights era. that's just concerning. i would offer the dichotomy for your viewers saying that this guy here, who shoots innocent people in the store, is an ultimate coward. if you contrast that today on the day of the civil rights march, to some of the civil rights heroes. -- who was in mississippi, a soldier, a veteran of the u. s. army, who was trying to register people to vote when he was killed by a sniper who was a korean, because he was trying to register people to vote. and he had been threatened amid yet he continued to go out and register people to vote. that's pure courage, as put up against pure cowardice here. and as america, we don't need to lose sight of the difference between cowards and people. we seem to lose it in america. we seem to not know what courage is, and what cowardice is. this is cowardice. and that was courage. and there can be many other examples. i'm sure -- can articulate this better than me. i'm a big fan of listening to him on morning joe, and i think he has this great insight into the history of hate in america. but it's not going away, so we have to combat it and federal agents and -- we fought it all the time. we were constantly after people that violated the firearms and explosives laws, and these guys all they did. because they had to have bombs and machine guns and trying to intimidate, hurt, and kill people they hated. so they were always -- and we were infiltrating there cleverness with undercover agents, going to their neo-nazi meetings and tried arresting them all the time. they have hatred for everyone, and they really hate atf and the fbi. because we were always arresting them. but of course, they hate the police but they try to referred to the police. but just the last thought, we've had this so many times on terrorism. radicalized people around the world, and the radicalization methods are not that different. >> professor glaad, jim kavanaugh use this expression, and today we are seeing this split stream reality of america. on one hand the 16th anniversary of the march on washington, thousands there today to commemorate that struggle and what that speech was all about, and yet the fulfillment of that journey, the fulfillment of that promise, again, shattered by the kind of hatred and racism that we just saw play out in jacksonville, florida. your reaction? >> yeah, i appreciate his compliments. i was thinking about his formulation of the apparatus as eight, and i'm thinking about the adjacent rhetoric of hate. what turned up the temperature? what brought this coward to the boiling point? we're in an environment now where there's the expectation of grievance and hate for political gain. and we need to understand the wide reach of who's responsible for this. i think that's the first thing. the second thing is that we have to tell ourselves about your story about the march on washington. this extraordinary moment of august 28th 1963, is actually claimed by political violence. not only that extraordinary march in may of 1963, and in birmingham, where we saw bull connor bring up the fire hoses and the dogs, those dogs and fire hoses were directed towards children, amen. that was a children's march. and we think about the courage of -- who shot down on june 11th, right? when we think about that moment and we think about george wallace on june 11th, standing in front of the university of alabama, declaring his commitment to segregation, when we think about the violence that framed, the violence that preceded the march, and we think about the violence that answered the march, the bombings in 1963 that killed four little girls, but also the two boys that were killed, johnny robinson and -- john robinson was actually shot in the back by police officers. he was shot as he was on a bicycle by two eagle scouts. the violence of the moment. and if we tell ourselves a better story, a -- story, about how we've never really come to terms with it, maybe we can understand more fully what we just experienced today. felt a long winded way of putting the point, but i hope you get. it >> i absolutely got it, and you brought up a very important point about the apparatus of hate. as i mentioned and as you just said, this falls on the same day as the 16th anniversary of the march on washington. reflect on this tragic >> happening on a day that was meant to celebrate civil rights for african americans, because when you talk about dismantling the apparatus of hate, i'm thinking about all of the things that continue to happen in this country where we are not allowed to tell this story from of this country. we are constantly being urged to pretend that we live in a post racial society, whether it is in florida or whether it is a supreme court decision. but all of that is reminding us that the journey from the march on washington until today is far from complete. >> absolutely. we're being told that the problem is -- the problem is diversity, equity, and inclusion. the problem is critical race theory. that's what we're being told is the threat to democratic life. right? and i think what we have to understand is that there is a segment of the society that believes that their white of life is being threatened. and in the history of america, whenever that particular group of folk believe that our lives are being threatened, they turn to violence. they always have. this is something that i have to say, ayman, people have been trying to make the point that trumpism is new. it is, a particular form of it. i'll give it that. but we've had to deal with these people for generations. we've had to deal with this sort of folk. we are quite familiar with this. and so part of the work that has to be done is to how can i put this? we have to commit ourselves, finally, to acknowledging it so that we can stamp it out. >> who dared to condemn him. >> words that still resonate till this day. professor, jim kavanaugh, thank you to the both of you for starting us off. we'll continue to cover the story and have more coverage of this tragedy in jacksonville throughout the night, and continue our conversation. we're going to take a quick break. after the break, we're going to shift gears. there are new indications that some georgia defendants are already placing the blame on donald trump. we're going to talk about that, next. but you know what is? 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(vo) football season is here. get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. you know that feeling of having to rewash dishes that didn't get clean? i don't. new cascade platinum plus has me doing dishes... differently. scrub? soak? nope. i just scrape, load and i'm done. only platinum plus is bigger. with double the dawn grease fighting power and double the scrubbing power. for a no rewash clean... and a cabinet ready shine. rewash? not in my house. upgrade to new cascade platinum plus. dare to dish differently. wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. upgrade to new cascade it's to die for. and it's all right here. streaming was never this easy, you know. this is the way. you really went all out didn't you? um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. >> this week was all about accountability. a small but nonetheless important dose of accountability, because if a man who once had the nuclear codes can get a mugshot like any other alleged criminal, then just this might really be equal for all? our country is built on the concept of rule of law, and that concept is supposed to apply equally to everyone. that's what we expect. and this mugshot shows maybe never more clearly that anyone can be held to account. in some ways, this mugshot represents the and every vote combination of a life that has stretched and buckled, first the spirit and letter of our nation's laws, and second, the constraints and norms around the u.s. presidency. this is serious stuff. we've never before had a mugshot of a former or even current united states president, but now we do. of course, even in this serious moment, donald trump try to get the upper hand, submitting height and width measurements for his booking record that basically matched the statistics of nfl quarterbacks, or actor chris hemsworth, or boxer muhammad ali. trump and his 18 codefendants all met the friday noon deadline to surrender at the fulton county jail, and cracks are already emerging within that group. take, for example, kenneth chesebro the lawyer associated with trump's campaign, who allegedly crafted the legal plan behind the so-called fake electors scheme. he has a trial date set for october 23rd, after requesting a speedy trial. the october trial date applies only to him at this point. late last night, sydney powell filed a similar motion for a speedy trial, and earlier today john eastman's lawyer, harvey silverglade, told nbc news that his client is likely to pursue that path too. now, those moves only constitute the smaller cracks that were highlighting. the former president of the republican party of georgia, david schaffer, he claimed in a court filing that he and a delegation of fake electors who were charged, quote, acted at the direction of the incumbent president and other federal leaders. and echoing that, is -- a georgia republican charged alongside trump, saying that he signed false papers claiming to be a legitimate presidential electorate trump's direction. now, the defendant said that -- and already the lower level alleged offenders are pointing fingers at the big guys up top. this, ahead of another massive week of legal developments that we're expecting. you've got five defendants that have sought to move the state case to federal court, citing their ties to the federal government. the first one to file, former house chief of staff mark meadows. he is going to make the argument formidable on monday, in a hearing before a federal judge in atlanta. that same day, the judge overseeing trump's federal case on election fraud has signaled that she will choose a trial date. and if she opt for a trial in early 2024, as prosecutors have requested, trump's already packed courtroom calendar will get that much more complicated. joining me to discuss this and more, jill wine-banks phil, msnbc legal analyst. she's a former assistant watergate special prosecutor and former general counsel of the army and co-host sister in law port cast. for renitta shannon and stuart stevens, advisor to the lincoln project, also author of it was all a lie. and he was mitt romney's chief strategist for his 2012 campaign. it's great to have all three of you with us. jill, i'll start with you because of the legal aspect that we are talking about, and our colleague lisa really pointed this out clearly earlier today. she said that this news, that john eastman will likely join sydney powell and ken cheseboro in demanding a speedy trial in fulton county, signals that there is some kind of splintering from the rest of the defendants, and that could depend on perhaps, strategy. explain that to us. >> i think part of it is that when the first request was made, by cheseboro, he thought that he would catch fani willis not ready. and that he would have an advantage, and that the trial would start within the legally mandated time of the georgia statute. which means that under georgia statute, the trial had to start by november 3rd. once he saw that he was wrong and she said, fine, let's go, i'm ready, others may have thought, well, i'll get in on this. i'll be severed from donald trump's trial by joining this early trial date. because donald trump is going to delay, delay, delay, divert, that is his pattern and practice. and so i'll be tried separately, and that gives me a break. but it also gives donald trump a break, because he then gets to see the evidence as it is presented. and he also has the advantage that he will now have at least three versions of it. the grand jury version with that the witnesses gave, the trial one version, and if there's any difference between the two, he gets to exploit that at his own trial. so he gets an advantage from this. so there's a lot of strategy going on right now as to what each of them is thinking. and then, of course, the removal part is another element that has to be considered. and the removal and the explanation that they were acting at his direction means that they're splintering in terms of pointing fingers. but it also means that they're admitting they did this, and don't they remember the nuremberg defense didn't work? it won't work here either. you cannot do an illegal act -- >> and simply say it wasn't order. >> yes. >> representative shannon, what do these arrests, these mugshots mean for the ordinary people of georgia? how does this picture of these 19 defendants shape our understanding of the equality under the law? >> this accountability is a very important, and the mugshot is very important, because so often we are told that no one is above the law. but then time and time again we see powerful and connected white men who, no matter their actions, or able to just continuously live above the law. and, so, now with this type of accountability, we are seeing that these folks are being held to account, everybody is familiar with that criminal legal system and how it has ravaged lots of folks in our country, predominantly black and brown communities, those who cannot afford fancy defense lawyers and those who don't have the most resources. so for black folks in particular, this is what we are seeing is sort of a crack in the usual protection that white supremacy affords, and the mugshot is part of that. >> you had republican pundits and republican lawmakers basically for years chanting, lock her up. that was their mantra. and they campaigned on that and they pretended that they cared about law and order and holding the powerful to account. and yet here we are, seeing their response over the last couple of days, what do you make of the gop attempts to spin this mugshot into an asset, as opposed to a liability? >> look, i think it's really important to focus on that. that this really isn't about donald trump, it's about what's happening to the republican party. the reason donald trump is leading in these polls, is because he's what republicans want. and if you go back to what happened on january 6th, it was an effort, an attempted coup, it involved all levels of the republican party. from the white house down to the attorney generals association, senators, congressman, their staff, noted donors, this wasn't a rogue action. it was a concerted, organized effort by the hierarchy in the republican party to overturn an election. i don't think you can call it anything else. and yet, you still see in this debate, where almost every candidate for president in the republican nomination says that they will support a man who attempted to overthrow the government of the united states if he wins the republican nomination. and i can't think of anything that's just more anti-american, and sadder, and shows the complete moral bankruptcy of this party i used to belong to. >> yeah. anti-american, anti-democratic, no doubt about it. jill, on monday, mark meadows is going to present his argument for moving his case to federal court. walk us through that. what is his argument, how strong do you believe it is? >> mark meadows is arguing that because he is a federal employee, that he gets to be tried in a federal court. now, in order to get removal, it's a very low standard of proof. but he does have to prove that his conduct, as charged in the georgia indictment, was done as part of his job. and frankly, i don't think we need to talk about the second and third elements, because i cannot imagine him being able to establish that his political activity, his campaign activity, and that his crimes were part of his job as chief of staff to the president of the united states. so that's the first hurdle that he will have to meet. the second one is he'd have to show that he has a federal defense. and again, as i've said, in relation to the other defendants, it's not a federal defense if you are committing a crime. that's the i can't follow your orders because, sir, it is illegal. and everybody knows that. so, i don't think he can meet those two standards, and therefore i don't think, even at the low standard of proof that is it's not beyond a reasonable doubt, you don't have to prove that it's absolutely going to have been, i don't think you can meet those standards. and the case will not be removed for any of the. >> so, really quickly, jill, just as a matter of procedure, is this a hearing that we would expect a decision on the day of, and more importantly, is it one we're fani willis's team gets to present the republic to the points that mark meadows makes, that this case should be removed? >> great question, ayman. yes. in the end, fani willis is prepared now for the defense. she has subpoenaed witnesses, including the secretary of state, who can testify to the pressure that he was put under. she can even use an fbi agent to testify to what happened in the grand jury. there's a lot of ways she can put in evidence. so if the basic -- remember, the burden is on mark meadows. he has to present it. that is a movement he has to prove. if she says, your honor, you can dismiss this now because it didn't meet the burden, then she doesn't have to put on any of that defense evidence. but if the judge is in doubt, then she will have to put these witnesses on, and i think that will robot anything any of the claims that are being made in defense of his getting this trial removed. and removal isn't going to help him all that much. he will get a slightly different jury, it would be all of northern georgia rather than having it be just fulton county. right. i'm sorry, instead of fulton county. so it means that it would be a different jury. but the law is the same, the prosecutor's the same, still under georgia law, it still will not be a portable defense, because it is a state one. >> no, those are really good points. representative shannon, i'm going to squeeze in a quick break. but afterwards i'm going to talk to you and get your thoughts on some important developments as well. and that will be about whether or not what happens if trump violates the agreements that he has made, the terms of his bond conditions, so to speak. having triplets is... -amazing -expensive. so, we switched to the bargain detergent, but we ended up using three times as much and the clothes still weren't as clean as with tide. so we're back with tide, and the clothes are clean again. do 3x the laundry and get a tide clean. it's got to be tide. 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(vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. shingles. some describe it as an intense burning sensation or an unbearable itch. this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. it could make your workday feel impossible. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older, ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles. -- and the georgia election case, let's break down those conditions for you, trump cannot communicate with witnesses, and cold events about the case, except for his lawyers. he's also barred from intimidating witnesses, and codefendants, and he is forbidden from making any direct, or indirect threat of any nature against the community or to any property in the community, and that includes his own posts on social media and even repulse. so, the question is what would happen if the ex president were to escalate from attacking the legitimacy of the cases, to violating these conditions in georgia, or the terms of the protective orders on the federal level, may panel is back with me. representative shannon let, me start with you in this round. and the washington post is reporting that the trump campaign seeds a benefit in and testing the boundaries by attacking the judges and prosecutors. what do you think would be the best legal avenue for judges to pursue if trump does violate any of his bond or protective order? >> very simply, it would not be smart fred trump to violate the bond agreement, because he could end up in pretrial detention, which means that he would have to spend time in the fulton county jail. the fulton county jail is not the place that you want to be. currently it is under investigation because we have had some recent deaths in the jail, it is the site where lesean thompson was eaten alive by bedbugs as he was awaiting trial, and so this is, you know, the fulton county jail is not where you want to be. at the end of the day, the trump team and those who are accused of this conspiracy really need to take, they need to take seriously what they are charged with. i was on the committee that the trump lawyers came before when they were asking as the door of the votes of georgians, and just decide the election for the voters. and this really wreaked a lot of havoc in georgia. for weeks, voters did not know if their right to elect their leaders would be upheld. and so these charges unveiled simply, i think that the dea, fani willis, has made clear that she is not going to give trump or anybody who is affiliated with him preferential treatment and that he has been, he has had a mugshot taken. and he has been going through the same process as anybody else would go through once they are charged in fulton. >> stuart, the fbi is now investigating threats to grandeurs and georgia, this is pretty serious, folks in right-wing on ranked groups is making death sentences against judges, and also what role do the feds have in protecting jurors and anyone else that might be threatened as a result of these indictments? >> look, i think that trump is definitely going to violate the terms of this bond agreement. -- of this order, he just can't control himself. he thinks himself that this is positive, i think this is all going to play out. if the classic case of testing the rule of law. trump has, and the republican party has participated in [inaudible] they have attacked the justice department, they have attacked the fbi, they have attacked judges, they've attacked prosecutors. and this began before trump was elected. republicans were getting with her. and, when i was a republican they like to tell the law and order party, they thought it was a marketing slogan. this is all going to play out. i can't imagine that trump isn't going to [inaudible] [inaudible] >> jail, judge chutkan who is overseeing the federal election over interference case, said she intends to keep politics out of the case. that seems impossible when it comes to donald trump because he is making them front and center in his political rhetoric. what do you make of that? and how difficult of a situation is she finding herself in navigating, allowing him to be able to speak out at the same time putting very strict limits and parameters on what he can speak about? >> judge chutkan is up to the task, she is experienced, and i think that she can handle it. but she is in a very difficult position. because, putting him in custody has to be a last resort. he may push her to that. but he will see it as a political advantage. and so she has to be careful not to give him that advantage. but there is a limit to what she can do to enforce this compliance with what are reasonable requirements for his release. she can penalize him with a monetary find. his supporters are paying his legal bills already. so he doesn't care about them and their money. i don't know how much benefit in terms of his complying it would be to fine him. if he doesn't obey the fine, she says she would move the trial date up. but she can only put it up so far without denying him due process in the adequate time to prepare. and he knows that, and she knows that. so there is very limited amounts of things that she can do other than incarceration and i think that that may have to be, if he, stuart is right, he cannot control himself and so if he goes way beyond the bounds and is clear in his threats and provoking his supporters to create violence in response to his threats i think that he will have to be shut up like being incarcerated and we have an example of the man who ran for president from jail so it would be possible for him to continue his campaign from jail. >> you are based in georgia what is it like for you to see ongoing threats for officials and jurors especially since you've been on the receiving end of these kinds of threats what kind of personal toll does it take on you? >> unfortunately it's very familiar as i mentioned before. i was on the committee that the trump lawyers came before. at that time there were a few of us who spoke up and said we are not going to do this and we don't understand why you are attacking our elections that did not have any fraud in them and that were causing any kind of significant difference in the outcome and for that we received death threats for simply asking the trump team to provide proof of the fraud that they claimed was ramp it in our election so as an elected official i am used to receiving death threats and i am used to receiving not-so-nice notes from the public from time to time but my heart really goes out for people like miss ruby freeman and other election workers who are simply just doing their job and folks who were part of the grand jury now who have just done their job and done their civic duty, and they are now being attacked by the trump team. i am glad that d.a. willis is taking all of this very seriously and she is doing what she can to protect those who were involved. because without that sort of protection, having the backs of the folks who were involved in the grand jury and everybody who is a part of this process, our democracy would seize so i am glad to see the folks being supported. >> it is indeed being tested, our democracy and rule of law is being tested every corner of this process. so we will see how it all plays out. shannon, jill one bags, two or steven, thank you for all of you tonight. really appreciate it. as always. the indictments made clear our election systems, and our workers may protection as we just discussed. next, colorado secretary of state, johnny, joins us after the break. feeling better? 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(vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. dove invited women who wanted their damaged hair trimmed. yes, i need a trim. i just want to be able to cut the damage. we tried dove instead. so, still need that trim? oh my gosh! i am actually shocked i don't need a haircut. don't trim daily damage. stop it with dove. >> the georgia indictment tells us a lot about donald trump's alleged criminal conduct, but it also points to the vulnerabilities within our election systems that need protecting. and coffee county, georgia, security researchers played by trump ally sydney powell, were allowed into an election's office to look at equipment, according to the indictment. the so-called researchers allegedly copied data, directly from voting systems, and they uploaded it to a site where election deniers across the country could then download it. and this is what happens when you intrust bad actors with administering our elections. in similar instances, they were reported to have taken place in colorado, michigan, and ohio. it's not just the physical infrastructure that is vulnerable, of course, we all remember election workers like ruby freeman and shaye moss, and others who faced a slew of violent threats as noted in that indictment. the washington post notes they are not alone, many black female election workers say they faced harassment, and in some cases have been forced from their jobs. joining me now, janet griswold, and chair of the democratic association of secretaries of state. secretary griswold, it's great to have you back on the show. thank you for making time for us. so, let's start with these election system breaches that we are seeing across the country. in your state, you have a county clerk, who was indicted on charges related to election tampering and misconduct. and, you know, prevention is one thing. but is accountability enough? what's needed to ensure these systems are protected? >> well, good evening, and thank you for having me. i do want to take a moment just to say i am thinking about jacksonville, and all of the victims and their families. hate has no place in this country, and we must stand together united against gun violence and hate. and going directly into the question you asked, there's a couple things to unpack with the georgia indictment section on the election breach in coffee county. first and foremost is that donald trump's attempts to put chaos across our nation, and to disrupt american elections did not stop the insurrection. at -- some reporters have alleged that the person involved with the security breach in the georgia situation is a guy called -- i bring that up because he was the person who worked several months later with colorado clerk tina peters from -- county, to breach her system. so let that sink in. kirsten, who is allegedly involved with the georgia breach, around the insurrection leading up to it, months later is in colorado messing with our election systems. so, the big takeaway for me is that states need to rapidly prepare themselves for an ongoing onslaught on american democracy. and there's several things that we've done in colorado that i encourage states to adopt immediately. >> yeah, that would be a pretty serious allegation if in fact it is true and verified. and we know election workers, madam secretary, they are vulnerable. there was this 2023 brennan center for justice poll, when nearly one in three local election officials had been abused, harassed, or even threatened. and you've got to look at just how, going to future elections, how tense this country is. more than half of poll workers are concerned about political leaders trying to interfere with how they do their jobs. what goes through your mind when youth see these numbers? >> we will, you know, i've been living this reality. it's not just the election workers, the poll workers on the ground. it's also the secretaries of state who have been standing up against these attempts to steal elections for the american people. and i think something really stood out from your last panel. it was what the former representative from georgia said. that she's used to receiving death threats, because she was an elected official. no elected official in the united states should ever see that. we cannot allow violence, predominantly against women or elected officials, and people of color to be used to stop us from being in these seats to represent our communities. and when it comes to the violence against election workers, it is something that is real. at this point, two men have been found guilty for threatening my life, and i was lead, just moved to run a law to protect election workers in the state of colorado because of that. but, honestly, this political violence, the atmosphere of threats, will only stop if republicans stand up to donald trump. people like ted cruz, people sitting in the u.s. senate and u.s. congress, who have decided that they don't have -- and it's okay to threaten a grandma who's executing an election and providing the oversight that she should be doing. >> so, you know, just really quickly. final thought on this. what's your message to those out there that are considering volunteering for the next election cycle? but are afraid to? >> i would say, we need you. states are moving rapidly, our elections work because americans of both parties, republicans and democrats, have oversight on the election process from start to finish. that's how we know american elections work in a secure and accurate way. but make no mistake, whether it's someone trying to breach an election system or trying to use threats to intimidate, as secretary of state i will do everything i can to hold them accountable. because the american people need to know that their votes will be counted accurately, and none of these grifters trying to steal the elections, along with donald trump, will get away with it. and by the way, that's why these prosecutions are so important. we have to come and reckon that american presidents tried to steal the presidency. >> secretary of state jena griswold, thank you so much. as always, greatly appreciate your time and your insights this evening. >> thank you. >> we're going to change gears in just a moment. when we come back, we're going to return to the breaking news on that racially motivated shooting in florida. just a quick break, stay with. us . >> >> the world's #1 sleep aid brad for a better night sleep. so now, he wakes up feeling like himself. the reigning family room middle-weight champion. better days start with zzzquil nights. 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(vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. >> all right back to the breaking news of the hour, three people were killed today after a gunman opened fire and targeted black people at $1 general store, excuse me, in jacksonville, florida. this of course, on the 60th anniversary of the march on washington. the seminal civil rights protest organized by asa philip randolph there, with dr. martin luther king junior. at the commemoration washington d. c. today, speaker after speaker called out the dire threat, the scourge of gun violence in this country, shortly before the attacks to place hundreds of miles away. >> we must end gun violence! >> we feel the pain of living in a country, where gun violence is the leading cause of death for children. >> and now, gun violence has come for our places of worship, our schools, and our shopping centers. >> jacksonville sheriff kiké waters said at a news conference a short time ago, a white man in his twenties, used a glock handgun and a ar-15 semiautomatic rifle in the attack. at least one of the fire in seven painted with a swastika. according to the sheriff, the shooter left behind writings that have led investigators to believe he may have been inspired by a shooting that took place exactly five years ago in jacksonville, when another gunman opened fire during a video game tournament in the city, killing two people, before fatally shooting himself. we're gonna have more from florida at the top of the hour, don't go anywhere. 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