jansing reports." the scene outside the georgia jail, so much happening already today, that of course where donald trump will surrender just a few hours from now. the sheriff promising no special treatment, arrested, booked, finger printed, height and weight noted with a new lawyer ready to fight charges that he tried to overturn the election. plus, the fulton county d.a. reveals the date she wants for trial as a parade of trump codefendants continue to turn themselves in. and new developments with two big names charged in the case. mark meadows and jeffrey clark losing their bids to avoid arrest with their bonds now set at $100,000. and the elephant not in the room, how eight republican candidates responded when asked would they support trump as the nominee if he's convicted. our nbc news reporters are following all of the latest developments. we begin with the breaking news from the d.a.'s office about a proposed trial date for donald trump and his codefendants. vaughn hillyard is following that. vaughn, fani willis is nothing if not aggressive. tell us about this. >> reporter: right, fani willis's intention is to try all 19 of these codefendants, including donald trump, at the same time, and what is notable about the new motion to move the trial date to october 23rd, which of course is just two months from now, is notable here because for donald trump he has urged his team to push for trial dates to not begin in any of his cases until after the 2024 election. what we have in this filing from the district attorney in fulton county is essentially her noting that kenneth chesebro, in his own filing requested a speedy trial to take place, and so in return, what the district attorney who to note has been working on her criminal investigation dating back to february of 2021 responded with this proposal, to do exactly that. our own producer, charlie gillies got off the phone with lawyers to john eastman who noted this would be of interest, and he expects that multiple other defendants would most likely motion to sever their trials ultimately from mr. kenneth chesebro. and his attorney says mr. chesebro will look forward to whatever date the court sates. this is of interest to donald trump because he brought on a new lead attorney, steven sadow, replacing drew finling who had been working on the case for the last year. i want you to get a little bit of a look outside the jail hours before donald trump is expected to arrive here. take a listen. >> it's just a beautiful thing to have someone who's just a regular guy come out and with his flaws say sarcastic things are nothing but the truth. >> he's never lied. >> reporter: i want to ask you guys, by a show of handles, who thinks the 2020 election was stolen. >> pastor, get over here. here's our pastor right here. >> reporter: so everybody here thinks the 2020 election -- >> absolutely. it was. >> reporter: chris, we expect donald trump to arrive here later on this evening for his official booking process, those are supporters who are on the front side of the jail. there are dozens of his backers who have been here over the course of the last hours. we are on the backside of the jail where we expect the former president to enter later this evening. >> vaughn hillyard, very busy day for you. thank you so much. we're following breaking news involving two prominent trump codefendants and the bond amounts just set for them. let's bring in msnbc's ken dilanian, what do we know about mark meadows and jeffrey clark. >> chris, both have had bonds set for them at $100,000, and that came after a federal judge blocked separate requests by both men for an emergency stay to prevent their arrests in this case on the grounds that their prosecution should be removed to federal court. now, the question of removal has not yet been decided but the judge declined to grant their emergency request to block their arrests so they will have to go forward with the booking process like everyone else, chris. >> ken dilanian, thank you for that. meantime, security ramping up ahead of donald trump's surrender in georgia. nbc's gabe gutierrez is following that piece of it, hey, gabe. >> reporter: hey, there, chris, over the last few hours, we have had a ramped up security presence here outside of the fulton county jail. several dozen trump supporters have been out here. nothing unruly at this point, but local officials aren't taking any chances. they set up extra barricades over the last couple of hours. we have seen this entire street blocked off since early this morning. later on this afternoon, and we expect the former president to come from his home in new jersey down here to atlanta and to come to the jail and be finger printed. it is unclear at this hour whether the former president will have his mug shot taken like his codefendants have so far. we're awaiting confirmation on that. we're expecting him to be in this jail potentially previous surrenders so far, take anywhere from a little less than an hour for rudy giuliani to about an hour and a half for some of the other codefendants, and he'll leave here and head back to new jersey. now, this all comes, though, as the former president's legal team has been shaken up. he has just replaced his former attorney, drew findling. a very well known attorney in georgia who negotiated the $200,000 bond for former president trump. it was announced just this morning that he was replaced with steve sadow, another high profile criminal defense attorney here in the atlanta area. unclear exactly why the change, but of course, former president trump is no stranger to shaking up his legal team on any variety of his cases. but again, that legal shakeup comes as we're expecting until the next few hours for the former president to leave his home in new jersey, come down here to atlanta, and to surrender right here at the fulton county jail in prime time. chris, back to you. >> gabe gutierrez, thank you for that. well, of course he wasn't on stage, but donald trump still loomed large at last night's gop debate. nbc's dasha burns is in milwaukee for us. so the trump question didn't come up until about an hour into the debate, but it surely was interesting. what happened? >> reporter: well, chris, that fact is significant. one trump aide told us that they were going to be counting the number of times his name came up during the debate, and i don't think that count is nearly as high as they wanted or frankly as high as we expected. in large part, voters did get to see for a while there what a post trump political universe might look like. but then of course we were brought back to reality about an hour in that we are not living in that universe, and this is the moment that really epitomizes the challenge for these candidates. watch. >> if former president trump is convicted in a court of law, would you still support him as your party's choice? please raise your hand if you would. here's the bottom line. someone's got to stop normalizing this conduct. okay. and now whether or not -- whether or not you believe that the criminal charges are right or wrong, the conduct is beneath the office of president of the united states. and, you know, this is the great thing about this country. booing is allowed, but it doesn't change the truth. >> reporter: and that fire from chris christie is really what we were expecting last night, but it shows the reaction from the audience what a challenge this is, and how these candidates are really boxed in. you saw the hesitant raising their hands, what do you do when you're asked that question. we have watched on the campaign trail as candidates try to walk the line. it's difficult. and it's why the primary is so fascinating and a challenge for the folks on the stage last night. >> dasha burns, thank you so much. and still ahead, the candidate who became the unexpected lightning rod at last night's debate. we've got that in 60 seconds. now is not the time for on the job training, we don't need to bring in a rookie. we don't need to bring in people without experience. okie we don't need to bring in people without experience ♪i've got home internet from t-mobile.♪ ♪it only costs $50 bucks at t-mobile.♪ ♪just one cord to set up.♪ ♪say goodbye to that truck.♪ ♪oh, what a beautiful mornin'...♪ ♪oh, what a beautiful day...♪ ♪they won't raise your rates at t-mobile...♪ ♪you'll get a great deal every day!♪ home internet from t-mobile... just $50 bucks a month. of the first gop debate. where does it leave the long standing number 2 in the polls, ron desantis? physically he was center stanl, -- stage, but as the night unfolded, not the center of action. the other candidates directed fire power at someone most americans had never even heard of. >> so first, let me just address the question that is on everybody's mind at home tonight. who the heck is this skinny guy with a funny last name, and what the heck is he doing in the middle of the debate stage. i'll tell you, i'm not a politician. >> now is not the time for on the job training. we don't need to bring in a rookie. >> i've had enough already tonight of a guy who sounds like chatgpt standing up here. >> you have no foreign policy experience and it shows. it shows. >> david jolly is a former republican congressman from florida, but he's in new york today, and he's here with me. what did you make of his performance? and i wonder if you think he's a threat to ron desantis's number two. >> i think he absolutely is, and i think in the next 24 hours we might see him pass ron desantis in a couple of polls. >> really? >> there's four left on survivor island, it's nikki haley, vivek ramaswamy, mike pence, and pence and hailey leaned into their experience, you saw that last night. ron desantis was who ron desantis has always been, awkward on stage, hard to relate to. i don't think he hurt himself but he didn't help himself. the stuff he said, how inarticulate he might have been, republican voters wanted to hear. i think he's fine. i don't think it moves. i think it was vivek show, and i think we could see vivek ramaswamy move ahead of ron desantis in a few polls, but you'll see those polls and probably donald trump will want voters to see vivek passing desantis. >> lovers of trump looking for someone trump like, may like what he had to say including that donald trump was the greatest presidential of the 21st century. this answer gave vivek ramaswamy a big win in the debate because of a thing called the truth. what do you make of that back and forth? >> vivek ramaswamy followed the data. ron desantis didn't follow the superpac's memo. vivek is now acting like a surrogate for donald trump. he's not going to overtake donald trump. he probably won't even win iowa. we'll see what happens, but all of a sudden he's a surrogate for donald trump that allows donald trump to promote vivek. and then be little ron desantis, and i think you'll also see a lot of research hit vivek, desantis, haley and pence are going after vivek. >> again, most people hadn't heard of him before last night. some college students who watched the debate, young republicans in iowa, it was interesting because he seemed to resonate with them. take a listen. >> vivek he was there, he wanted to answer first, talk first. he was ready for it. he was prepared. his closing remarks were beautiful. i think he's going to shoot up in the polls. >> he took the angle that he's not a politician and doesn't have experience, that was the most intriguing to me. >> vivek was calling people bro and desantis, he seemed awkward up there, like all stiff. >> so ramaswamy, whatever you think about what he said, like, you know, climate change is a hoax, he's young, he's quick. could you see a young voting bloc, a young conservative voting bloc, i don't want any octogenarians as president rallying around someone like him? >> there's analogies to the andrew yang. on climate change, on mexico, ukraine, very dangerous themes but in a post trump republican party, dangerous themes don't seem to be a disqualifier, neither does the ir reverence and brashness. when ron desantis got a question from a youth voter, it offended him and he freaked out, when a youth voter asked about climate change, why am i spending time with a kid. >> after the debate, garrett haake spoke to mike pence. this was very interesting. >> would you have approached that question and that point any differently on the stage tonight if donald trump had been on it with you? >> i don't believe i would, and i think it was a missed opportunity for him not to be there. my bet is he might be at the next one. >> with vivek getting so much attention, with people talking less about, nobody seemed to care about what he was doing on streaming. he was talking more about formerly alive people, right. will trump reconsider taking part in the next debate? >> i don't think so. there's no reason for trump to participate in this. this did look like an under card debate. i don't think you're going to see anybody encroach on donald trump's 30 point lead. we'll see. the unknown is what if he goes to trial, what if there was a conviction, all of those are unknown. we haven't seen anything bring trump down. if nothing is bringing him down, there's no reason to tangle with the folks we saw last night. >> former congressman, david jolly, great to have you in new york. thank you. he's recovering from his daughter going to preschool. >> that's very true. still ahead, the mystery behind the plane crash that likely killed the wagner group's boss. plus, the gop debate puts the spotlight on russia and the sharp republican divide over aid to ukraine. is there anyone on stage who would not support the increase of more funding to ukraine? would not support it? >> europe needs to step up. t it >> europe needs to step up shelves. shelves that know what taste buds want. shelves smart enough to see, sense, react, restock. ♪ so caramel 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(vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. we have breaking news right now from georgia involving donald trump's former chief of staff mark meadows, one of his 18 codefendants. i want to go straight to nbc's vaughn hillyard who has the latest. what's going on there, vaughn? >> reporter: right, chris, we're outside the jail and this just popped up here on the docket that, in fact, mark meadows, the former chief of staff has officially booked himself and surrendered to authorities in fulton county at the jail. we believe he's potentially inside as we speak formally going through the process as we expect the former president to go through just hours from now. for mark meadows, he contested having to surrender by tomorrow's noon deadline, but ultimately a federal judge rejected that yesterday. mark meadows does have a hearing this upcoming monday, as part of a motion to move his trial to a federal court. he contends he was working as chief of staff in a federal officer capacity, and so therefore he can not be tried at the state level. but in a filing from fani willis yesterday, she fought back, making the assertion that he was not serving in the role of chief of staff at the time, but instead, was violating his hatch act in purely doing political work on behalf of candidate donald trump, not only from washington, but also when he made a trip here to fulton county, which was outlined as part of her indictment against mark meadows, and so for him, he ultimately was ordered to come here by tomorrow's deadline that the rest of the individuals had to abide by. we also know that jeffrey clark, the same judge ordered that he must surrender by tomorrow's deadline. we are hearing from jeffrey clark just this hour that he is in atlanta himself. he is not at this jail as far as we are aware of at this time, but mark meadows has now officially been booked and arrested here in fulton county, georgia, as he awaits a determination by a judge on whether he will be tried at the state level or federal level. >> vaughn hillyard, thank you so much for that update. meantime, the presumed death of russian war lord yevgeny prigozhin pulled vladimir putin and russia's invasion of ukraine back into the spotlight at last night's republican debate. u.s. military support for ukraine led to some of the most heated exchanges of the night exposing the key divide among the contenders and the grand ol party at large. senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake has the highlights for us. also with us, former u.s. senior defense attache to the russian federation, retired u.s. army brigadier general and global fellow at the wilson center, peter zwack. garrett, what did the candidates have to say about ukraine and russia? it got heated. >> reporter: it did. and this is one of the most illuminating parts. they have substantiative disagreements. there's a huge debate on how they want to handle russia and ukraine, and how they want to handle america's role in the world more broadly. we saw some of that debate play out between candidates who want to pull back from that role specifically as it relates to russia and ukraine, and those who want us to take a more robust role in continuing to support ukraine. starting with chris christie, who just returned from the country a short time ago. here's some of what we heard on this topic last night. >> this is the vladimir putin who donald trump called brilliant and a genius. if we don't stand up against this type of autocratic killing in the world, we will be next. >> your first obligation is to defend our country and its people. and that means you're sending all of this money but you're not doing what we need to do to secure our own border. >> mr. ramaswamy, you would not support an increase of funding to ukraine? >> i would not. and i think this is disastrous, we're protecting against an invasion across somebody else's border when we should use those military resources to prevent invasion of our own border. >> putin killed prigozhin. when i was at the u.n., the russian ambassador suddenly died. this guy is a murderer, and you are choosing a murderer over a pro-american country. >> reporter: the missing voice from this is of course is donald trump, the front runner who has been very skeptical of sending money to ukraine, but because all of this is always pesonal for him has responsibly nicely against president zelenskyy who defended him in his first impeachment. his view is one we were missing in the debate last night, given the likelihood he'll end up as the party's nominee. >> without a doubt. garrett haake, thank you so much, in milwaukee. general, i wonder when you listen to that what you think about the party divide, and it's clear that many republicans have been increasingly critical about the amount of aid the u.s. has sent to ukraine as the war drags on. >> good to see you again, chris. i sigh when i hear this debate because in my mind, if there was anything that is clear is that we shouldn't be comparing the two. you can do both. yes, we can continue to butt -- butt tres the border, but we have been supporting our international allies, a nation, flawed in ways, but a real free-minded nation that has been beleaguered for 18 months by the most vicious, aggressive, offensive invasion that we have seen in our times and certainly in what you would call the greater european environment. so to try to negotiate with a absolutely implacable cold-blooded leader, land, for example, in ukraine, not supporting them will create major problems for us, and then it's a bigger problem. i wish, there are candidates, and i'm being apolitical here, would just read the history books and look what happened in the late 1930s when the free world did not stand up when they could have to autocrats turned dictators. we need to do everything we can to support this effort with our allies. one of the priceless things we have as americans, and, yes, continue to figure out a way to buttress the border. it's not an either/or. >> let me tell you about the big news that prompted the big discussion yesterday, the plane that we believe yevgeny prigozhin was on crashing. president biden suggested yesterday it may have been ordered by vladimir putin. let's take a listen. >> i don't know for a fact what happened. i'm not surprised. >> do you believe putin is behind this, sir? >> i don't know enough to know. >> not much that happens in russia that putin is not behind. i wonder if you have doubts about whether this was putin, and what do you think the overall impact is going to be? >> first of all, yes, there's always that variable that it was an accident, but it's tiny. somehow that airplane went down, and it went down by looking at the radar, in duress. it shuttered and turned around and went having for the ground. it's always on a flight path, chris, a very well trafficked path between moscow and st. petersburg. this just doesn't happen, and the fact that yevgeny prigozhin, with his number two, the founder of wagner, and five other senior wagner leaders and three innocent pilots went down, it just shows that the cold-blooded nature of what we are dealing with. no, i believe that the regime did it. it was planned. they had an opportunity to get the whole wagner team together. prigozhin had been driving putin together. it was exactly two months ago when the protest, you know, the protest coup, whatever we want to call it occurred, and then had this bizarre two months back and forth, and him showing up and disappearing and moscow and in st. petersburg and belarus, and there's a whole other piece of it. no, this is regime, i believe, did it. they will have the deniability, the ambiguity, which means they will never agree that they did it, but it is a tap on the shoulder to everybody. you're disloyal or a traitor, we're eventually going to come for you. that's the first message, and that should be one that we take as those of us, and i have been on the side that's tried long and hard to negotiate with the russians but certain aspects, you're dealing with an absolute ruthless, merciless protagonist, and we need to be mindful of that. >> brigadier general peter zwack, thank you so much, it's always great to have you here. defendants in fulton county, grappling with a growing mountain of legal bills with no help from donald trump. we've got new reporting on how they're going to raise money for themselves. that's next. that's next. my store and my design business? 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(vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. - [narrator] we just signed the lease on our third shop. i guess we're a chain now, right? we worked so hard to get here. my assistant went to customink.com to get our new uniforms and merch with all the location names. our custom gear helps him get our brand out into the community. he takes care of all of our custom ink orders. he was able to find great products, upload the new art, and have boxes sent directly to each of the shops. custom ink makes it so easy. get started today at customink.com. an extraordinarily busy day. we've got more breaking news coming out of fulton county right now because another one of donald trump's 18 codefendants was just booked in georgia hours before the former president is expected to surrender. his name is harrison floyd. he's been charged with racketeering and all of that tied to pressuring election worker ruby freeman into falsely election crime that she never committed in 2020. i want to go to, if i can, vaughn hillyard who's live in atlanta. what more can you tell us about this, vaughn? >> reporter: right, two actual major developments. number one, mark meadows and harrison floyd have gone through the booking process and surrendered. harrison floyd alleged to have been part of a scheme to pressure ruby freeman to essentially admit to voter fraud actions that she did not actually take. and mark meadows is now officially booked after a judge, a federal judge ruled that he would not be able to push back his surrender date into next week but instead would have to meet tomorrow's deadline. here's the bigger headline that we're just getting in the last literally few minutes here, chris, and we're reading in realtime, trump's new attorney, steven sadow who was just brought on board officially this morning, he has just put in a motion with the court to not only sever donald trump's trial from kenneth chesebro but also to push back and set up a different time line from the one that the district attorney just proposed to the judge just a few hours ago. of course it was this morning that october 23rd proposal date was sent forward by district attorney fani willis for this trial to start. she noted in her filing that kenneth chesebro, one of the 19 defendants had requested a speedy trial, and she said that she made this october 23rd proposal at the behest of that very request, and now what you see is donald trump's attorney making the first effort of any of these other defendants to separate his case from chesebro. right now, it's been the district attorney's attention to have this rico, this racketeering case be heard as part of one trial, all 19 codefendants appearing at the same time. our producer on the ground had a conversation just a bit ago with one of the lawyers for one of those codefendants who suggested that if, in fact, chesebro were to have his trial date start on october 23rd, that we should expect other defendants to try to sever ties from him, just like we have seen donald trump's attorney now do. and in large part of that, donald trump of course like other defendants are acknowledging the fact that there is a plethora of documents and evidence presents to them from the district attorney's office, who is engaged in this investigation for now two and a half years, and donald trump said he does not want any of his trials to begin until after the 2024 election. october 23rd is just two months away. that's a short time line for a defense team, let alone one led by an attorney brought on today to build the defense case on behalf of the former president, and that is where we are going to see a complex set of likely trials here take place over the course of months if not years. >> vaughn, thank you for those updates. i also want to bring in "atlanta journal-constitution" senior reporter that -- tamar, and msnbc legal analyst, joyce vance, to start the trial in late october, and now what we're seeing happening as was just described. what do you make of what's happening, and what happens now? >> right, so ken chesebro tried to call fani willis's bluff. his legal team was probably banking on the fact that they believed she wasn't ready to go to trial when they filed this motion for a speedy case. but she responded and made clear that she was, and, chris, you'll recall, there had been a lot of commentary on her delay after she said that an indictment was imminent. it's very likely that she used those extra months to prepare her case so that she was ready to go to trial at the time where she filed the indictment. now this whole mess will land in the lap of the judge. it will be up to him to sort out the varying requests. some defendants will seek, as donald trump apparently will to sever their case from chesebro and anyone else who might want an early trial. the judge will have to decide. it did these defendants go to trial as a group or will he now set a schedule that calls for some early trials and some later ones? >> whenever the trials start, and i don't want to dismiss that in any way, but what can you tell us about this judge, how quickly things might move, at least in terms of making a decision about what happens next and how quickly? >> reporter: we're not sure. judge scott has not weighed in at this point. to add to this, we have the federal removal push not only from mark meadows, but jeffrey clark, the former justice department official, from david shaffer, a republican elector, and we're expecting donald trump will make a similar push. that could be a delaying factor. there's a hearing on monday on meadows' portion of the case, but i was talking to a defense attorney in atlanta yesterday, unaffiliated with this case, and he mentioned how there's not any case law in georgia that really talks about how the federal removal aspect will interplay with a speedy trial demand, and that's something that judge mchaffey will have to take into consideration. does he step in and decide to go ahead and schedule some dates? there are a lot of cross cutting forces here. >> i want to tell you, tamar, that while you were speaking, donald trump was on truth social, and among other things, he says the arrest time will be 7:30. that's when he's planning to show up at the jail. what do you expect there? what are you hearing? >> reporter: a full-on media circus, and my understanding from my colleagues already there is that it is already that. not only is there national and international media lining the streets around the courthouse, there's also supporters of the president who came out, trump on his truth social account circulated a flier, come on out, bring your bull horns, gear to support me. there's also counter protesters, folks who would like to see him held accountable for his actions in georgia who are also on the scene. soon in the hours ahead, we're expecting law enforcement will put up a harder barrier around the jail, and so it's going to be really hard to get around an already circus like atmosphere. >> and as we said, he's coming with a new attorney, steven sadow, someone you have been up against in court before. tell us a little bit about what the book on him is essentially, what should we know? >> steve is a smart and experienced lawyer. he has been doing this for decades, and he's not only a good tactician pretrial, we saw that with his prompt filing of this motion where he's asking to have involvement in pretrial scheduling, he's also a defense lawyer who's not afraid to go to trial. he will certainly, if he believes he's got good defenses to assert, be unafraid to take this to a jury and let them decide the case. >> joyce vance, tamar hallerman, thank you so much for responding so quickly to this breaking news. appreciate it. right now, security concerns at the fulton county jail where trump will surrender, he says now, 7:30 tonight, that's eastern time. i guess i don't know if it's eastern time. we'll find out. as some of his supporters speculate that a rally outside the building is an fbi setup. that reporting. plus, a former fbi official who worked in atlanta will weigh in. we've got a lot more coming. stay right here. my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements at 4 weeks. skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor for crohn's that can deliver both clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. the majority of people on skyrizi achieved long lasting remission at 1 year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv when you smell the amazing scent of gain flings... time stops. 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[sneeze] (♪♪) astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. with astepro's unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go! news. former president donald trump has revealed on truth social, he will turn himself in, he will be arrested in georgia, 7:30 eastern time tonight, security is already extraordinarily tight outside the fulton county jail. pro trump demonstrators have been forced to stay across the street from the jail. turnout has been relatively small, dozens as opposed to hundreds, which may be due in part to this, a conspiracy theory among conservatives on social media that the rally itself could be a setup by the fbi to target and arrest trump supporters. >> america is the greatest country in the world. we just have a unfair regime running the current administration that is an evil force. >> i want to bring in nbc's ryan reilly who wrote about this. frank figliuzzi, former assistant director for counter intelligence at the fbi and an msnbc national security analyst, we're happy to have you here in studio. ryan, you have been looking into these conspiracy theories, theorists saying this protest in atlanta is a big setup. what's going on there? >> yeah, you know, it's surprising because i think a lot of trump supporters greatly overestimate the fbi's size and capabilities and practices generally. and a lot of this grows out of the january 6th attack itself because you constantly have a lot of these theories thrown out there about how, oh, these were undercover actors, working on behalf of the government in some capacity. an individual named rally runner, he's actually a st. louis cardinal's fan who ran around the stadium during home games there. back in 2021, on tucker carlson's fox news show, a january 6th lawyer, a right wing activist was saying this individual was clearly a law enforcement officer and saying this was an agent provocateur who was riling up the mob that day and causing them to do things they wouldn't otherwise do. lo and be hold, the rally runner was identified by online sleuths, and we finally have an arrest. this was an individual who was interviewed by the fbi immediately after january 6th but at the time the bureau was not fully aware of all of his activities that day, and now after all of this video has come out as a result of these january 6th cases, we can pretty much follow everything he does, and see him holding the police shield, charging the line, and really taking part in this assault that took place at the western side of the capitol in the tunnel where some of the most violent action took place that day. it's illustrative of the broader issue that the lot of maga supporters, trump supporters really do think a lot of this is a setup and that the fbi is sort of pulling all the strings behind the scenes here, even if that's really out of step with reality. what it ultimately ends up doing is sort of suppressing some of these rallies that take place because people are so scared of their own shadows that there's members of the fbi or antifa infiltrating these pro trump demonstrations, chris. >> but i wonder, frank, what you think when you hear that there are not a few americans who think that the fbi, if they go to one of these, they're going to get them. >> my first thought, since i'm a security guy, if that conspiracy guy keeps them home, they don't want to get arrested like the over 1,000 people already arrested for january 6th, then that's fine. the larger concern, of course, is that these conspiracy theories are danger. the reality is, of course, the fbi only has 14,000 gun and badge carrying special agents to cover the world, 56 field offices in the u.s., 200 offices overseas, they're not everywhere and they're certainly not trying to entrap people in fulton county, georgia. >> some of this stuff is to the outside world harmless. amy kramer, the organizers of the stop the steal rally. she photo shopped herself into a fulton county mug shot. that's sort of her way, i guess, of supporting donald trump. i know out of tracked these protests as they come and go, but i wonder what your take is on the kind of fervor that we're seeing around donald trump, people who believe this is a call to action again for them. in one way or another. because he's being treated unfairly. >> a couple of thoughts, first, trump clearly is not quieting down the fervor and the anger and the passion. he actually seems to be using proxyings with regard to the iowa state fair and matt gaetz, congressman standing next to him last weekend saying we only get change through force, right, and trump's nodding his head, using proxies and surrogates to do this. here's good news, we're not seeing, i'm not seeing in known extremist sites, people planning in a big way to do some harm to this event. what i tell my friends in law enforcement is they're in for a marathon on security posture. this is not a sprint. let's not overfocus on one event happening tonight. let's realize the trials are going to take place over a protracted period, which requires a protracted security posture. >> i want to play part of an exchange between trump and tucker carlson last night because it does kind of get to the bigger picture we're in right now. let's take a listen. >> so do you think it's possible that there's open conflict? >> i don't know. i don't know because i don't know what it -- i can say this, there's a level of passion that i've never seen. there's a level of hatred that i've never seen, and that's probably a bad combination. >> so he talks about this combination of passion and hatred, a level of hatred being a bad combination. do you agree with donald trump in that sense. >> this is a rare occasion that i agree with him. he's laying out the threat assessment. you can see it in the racist, blatant, racist tone of what we're seeing in extremist sites, generated by him. this is a former president who recently has used a word that rhymes with a racial epithet. what do we see happening immediately on the extremist sites, they're adopting that word to refer to black people, judge chutkan and d.a. willis. things are ugly. he's right. what he's not saying is he's helping generate that. >> we have less than a minute left, but do you think we're at a point, and we talk about the lone actor or somebody who wants to really make trouble. even if a lot of people don't turn out at any of these places, does that lower the tension level significantly or is it that lone actor that is most concerned? >> both can be true. law enforcement really interested in how many numbers he can produce. he's called for people to turn out tonight. let's see if people turn out for him, number two, turn out or not, nothing changes the risk by the posed by that guy you can't find, the guy you don't know about. that's what worries people the most. >> frank figliuzzi, and ryan reilly, really appreciate it. that's going to do it this very busy hour. joining us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. eastern time on msnbc. tonight, stay with msnbc for special coverage of former president trump's anticipated surrender at the fulton county jail. that's at 7:00 p.m. eastern time our coverage begins on msnbc. you can also stream it on peacock. our coverage this afternoon continues with "katy tur reports" right after the break. r reports" right after the break . about three or four years ago, i wasn't feeling as if i was as sharp as i used to be. i wanted to try something that was over-the-counter. i saw the prevagen commercials. after a short amount of time taking prevagen, i started noticing a difference-- that i'm remembering this, i'm remembering that. i stopped taking prevagen and i found myself slacking back so i jumped right back on it. i feel as if it's brought me back to the good 'ol days. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. 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(vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. is back now at lucky! come kick off the season with our shop and score game that'll have you cheering for more! play for a chance at over 25 million in prizes and money saving offers - like this and this, or even this! or try to win $100,000 in guaranteed prize money. shop your favorite brand sporting the monopoly tag for unlimited game tickets and get ready to win at lucky! good to be with you, i'm katy tur. arrest time, 7:30 p.m. that is when donald trump says he will surrender and be booked at the fulton county jail tonight. he should be leaving soon, flying from new jersey to atlanta. when he gets there, it's expected he will be treated like anyone else, finger printed and weighed. will he also have a mug shot taken? rudy giuliani did, along with all of the other defendants so far. why wouldn't trump? and speaking of the other defendants, mark meadows just got booked. he tried to get a federal judge to intervene and put a stay on his arrest, but the judge said no. what does that mean for his motion to remove the case to federal court? a judge hears that argument on monday. and what is this news about an october 23rd trial date? d.a. fani willis proposed it in response to kenneth chesebro's request for a speedy trial. chesebro says yes, that's good, and donald trump is now saying no. what will the judge say? it's all literally happening right now, changing by the minute, so let us get to the reporters on the ground. joining us is nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard who's outside of the jail. msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin who's outside oth

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