presumed dead after a highly suspicious plane crash. the question embroiling the globe this morning, did vladimir putin get his revenge against yevgeny prigozhin? good morning, and thanks for joining us. it is 10:00 eastern. i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york, and today we will see a former president surf renner at a county jail for the first time in history. there's no precedent for what will happen when donald trump turns himself in at this jail in fulton county later today. we expect he'll be treated the same as his fellow co-defendants, booked, fingerprinted, and photographed for a mug shot. trump is among ten left to surrender ahead of the deadline at noon tomorrow. nine others have already been booked, including the man once known as america's mayor. rudy giuliani. let's go to atlanta and nbc's blayne alexander. also with us, msnbc legal analyst, barbara mcquade, and democratic state representative, tanya miller, she's also a former fulton county assistant district attorney. thank you, ladies, for being here. blayne, do we know when the former president is expected there today? and i understand there's a shake-up in his legal team? >> reporter: well, ana, he's expected to show up at the fulton county jail sometime this evening. that's the guidance that we have from a source who is close and familiar with the president -- the former president's movements. remember, of course, when you talk about the timing of this, we're talking about a prime time surrender essentially. this is a former president who's also a former reality tv star. we're not going to see him walk into the jail itself. we know he's going to use the entrance behind me that you see on your screen. what we will likely see is his car, his motorcade driving down the street towards jail and actually turning in there. as for the shake-up in his legal team, we understand that he replaced the person who for the better part of two years throughout this entire investigation had kind of been leading the legal efforts here in georgia, drew finling. he has now been replaced with another attorney, steve saddow. he is a well-known defense attorney here in georgia. he's represented the likes of celebrities like ray lewis, howard stern, rapper t.i. that was when he was in the fulton county courthouse on monday after meeting with the d.a.'s team. so we do have a statement from saddow talking about the fact that he has been retained to represent the former president. he said the president should never have been indicted. we look forward to the case being dismissed or if necessary an unbased open minded swrur finding the president not guilty. that's the latest from his new representation here. how we're expecting to see this play out is once he comes in, we don't know how long he's going to be inside the building. other times have ranged from less than an hour for giuliani to john eastman who was inside for about 90 minutes or so, and we certainly expect the former president's process will be greatly expedited. >> that was a loud truck that just went by, way to power through there. your reaction to shaking up the legal team the day of the surrender, what does this tell you? >> i'm not sure. there are a number of reasons someone might part ways with their lawyer. sometimes the lawyer opportunity want to represent the client anymore. sometimes the client wants to move in different direction. based on past experience with donald trump, so often what he really wants is a lawyer who can be a tv lawyer for him, someone who can go public and make the kind of public statements that can perhaps poison the well and win in the court of public opinion. that's one theory, but that could be any number of reasonable explanations to change attorneys at this stage as they're about to embark on a criminal defense. >> trump has gone on social media, he's called for protests ahead of his surrender. are you worried about the possibility of violence? >> you have to be worried about the possibility of violence. we know what trump supporters are capable of. we all watched in horror the january 6th attack on our nation's capitol. so we in fulton county are bracing for the worst. i can tell you that our law enforcement partners, the fulton county sheriff, atlanta police department, all of the metro area police departments are on high alert. they're prepared to move swiftly should any sort of disturbance turn violent, but absolutely, we have to be on high alert understanding the history that is associated with this president and former president is and some of his followers. >> blayne, there are a number of other people who haven't surrendered like mark meadows or jeffrey clark. they lost their bids to delay this from happening. where do things stand with them now? and what about the bigger question about whether this case could still be moved? >> well, ana, where things stand right now is they have to turn themselves in by the deadline, just like everybody else. that's the word from t.a. fani willis, and she's made it clear she plans to issue arrest warrants for anybody who doesn't come to the jail and surrender by the deadline, which is noon tomorrow. mark meadows had filed basically asking for a reprieve from arrest as he waits to see whether or not his case will be moved up to federal court. a judge denied that. the latest is he does have to turn himself in or face arrest. now, as for whether or not that request to be removed to federal court is actually going to happen, we know that there is an evidentiary hearing on monday to really kind of further discuss the merits of this, and that will certainly be a good insight into what will happen. i want to say one word very quickly about security. you talked about that as well. throughout into entire time, that has been something that's been top of mind for the sheriff, for the d.a., for all of the people here. they even had a place that was designated for potential protesters at the courthouse. we've seen none of that. we've seen nothing that is violent. we've seen nothing that is dangerous. here at the jail, there are several dozen or so protesters on the other side of the jail with signs and with t-shirts. people driving by with trucks. again, no sign of anything that would get unruly so far, but we do know there are officers who are of course in uniform and plain clothes officers who are watching for any potential disruptions, guys. >> thank you, blayne alexander, we'll let you go to continue with your reporting. barb, rudy giuliani who already surrendered said he talked to trump yesterday. we also saw trump put out a statement defending giuliani. barb, legally, is that a problem if co-defendants, alleged co-conspirators are still talking to each other? >> well, you'll note that in the bond orders, what the judge has required is that they not talk to each other about the case, and so if they're talking to each other about other things or even very generally, you know, i'm supporting you. i hope you're well. i wish you well, those sorts of things, i think those are fair game. what's really difficult is enforcing that. while rudy giuliani is calling donald trump to wish him well, is he also talking about the case. all the other defendants are hearing those words as well. i think this is going to be quite a tight rope for the judge and the prosecutor to walk to figure out what's on the right line of this bond order and what crosses it. >> representative miller, you have experience in both the courts and the political sphere. you know fani willis, what's on the line for her here and for your state? >> well, obviously, you know, what's on the line for madam d.a. is the public eye watching her in what will be one of the most high profile prosecutions in our nation's history. certainly she's got to get it right. no prosecution is ever perfect. we describe it as a knife fight, right? you got to expect to get cut. you will win some, you will lose some. things will not always go the way you planned. certainly you've got to put your best foot forward because the world will be watching want i think for the state of georgia, it is the same thing. we are the epicenter of the nation's politics right now. we are a swing state with two democratic senators we sent to washington, d.c., our state going to president biden. we are also still read, so i guess we're more purple right now with most of the state leadership being republican. this could potentially divide us. we see skirmishes already starting to brew in the general assembly who want to make this a political fight. this is not a political fight. this is a criminal prosecution. violence have been broken allegedly and we have got to let our processes, our system of democracy, our separation of powers do their job. it is what democracy looks like. >> georgia state representative tanya miller, thank you very much for joining us. barbara mcquade, stand by as i know you're joining us later this hour. still ahead here on "ana cabrera reports," from america's mayor to indicted co-defendant, rouge rudy giuliani facing legal heat in georgia. clash of candidates, the gop contenders come out swinging in the first primary debate. what did republican voters think? >> maybe there is a lot of hope in the moderate side of the republican party. if you're a trump voter at this point, you've already dedicated. >> and putin's revenge, what we're learning about the highly suspicious plane crash that appears to have killed wagner mercenary chief yevgeny prigozhin. vgeny prigozhin. it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. 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(vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. welcome back, the clashes began almost immediately last night in that first republican debate of the primary season, and without the front runner on the stage, the rest of the field pound new targets. >> i've had enough already tonight of a guy who sounds like chatgpt standing up here. >> you have ron desantis, you've got tim scott, you've got mike pence, they all voted to raise the debt and donald trump added 8 trillion to our debt. >> do you want a super pac puppet, or do you want a patriot who speaks the truth? >> to be honest with you, nikki, you're my friend, but consensus is the opposite of leadership. >> this is why margaret thatcher said if you want something said, ask a man, if upts something done ask a woman. >> ali vitali in milwaukee where the debate was held. first of all, thank you for joining me and wearing blue today and a white shirt. >> yeah, got a memo. >> we had a mind meld going. tell us more about how things went down last night without the leading candidate there on the stage. >> reporter: yeah, reporting for "ana cabrera reports" in the decided uniform for this show so i love that. this was a strange debate stage because the guy leading the pack wasn't there. there are some who said trump wouldn't have a chance to defend himself. there were others who said they were happy with it because it gave them more oxygen and introduce themselves to the american public, and certainly up to this point in the primary. but just because he wasn't there, doesn't mean that he wasn't looming over the stage. he was invoked a few times sporadically in the debate. the moderators brought him up less as an individual who's vying for this office and more as if he were some issue to contend with on their path to the nomination. certainly he's both, but i thought this was really almost a renaissance painting, frankly, in the ways this entire stage reacted to the question of what would happen if trump were indicted and would they still support him. watch that. >> if former president trump is convicted this a court of law, would you still support him as your party's choice? please raise your hand if you would. you watch the ways and the orders in which those hands go up, and it does sort of the beg the question, a lot of trump sources have said this too ana, it underscores the former president's point. >> the candidates got a we cannot from the moderators but directly from a young republican voter who brought up an issue that is on a lot of younger voters' minds, and i'm not sure he really got his question answered. what happened? >> reporter: yeah, i think that's right. let's watch that moment. the question itself was about climate change. it came up early in the debate. as someone who's covered democratic for a whale, it was striking to see this covered in a republican debate. the conversation was like this. watch. >> do you believe in human behavior is causing climate change? raise your hand if you do? >> look, we're not school children. let's have the debate. i mean, i'm happy to take it. >> let us be honest as republicans. i'm the only person on the stage who isn't bought and paid for, so i can say this -- the climate change agenda is a hoax. the climate change agenda is a hoax. and we have to declare independence. >> reporter: i think we should point out, ana, it's not a hoax and the moderators here of this debate referenced all of the extreme weather we've been seeing, even just in the last few weeks, but i think one of the important points here is most of the candidates dodged on that question or did what ramaswamidy on that stage by saying it was a hoax. it was another reminder that even for some republicans who young voters clearly, whether they're republicans, democrats or independents are really galvanized by this issue of climate change, and yet for the older echelons of the party that are running on this stage, they are still very much in the state of if not outright denying that it's happening, then certainly trying to ignore the issue altogether. >> nobody raised their hand when she said raise your hand if you think humans have something to do with climate change, and of course you saw desantis just take it and try to dismiss that. thank you very much, ali vitali. so who got the most air time last night? here's the breakdown for you. former vice president mike pence leading the way with chris christie and vivek ramaswamy close behind, ron desantis who's second in the polls was fourth in talk time but google trends shows that this morning the most searched for candidates are as follows, vivek ramaswamy, nikki haley, donald trump, chris christie, and ron desantis. let's bring in former adviser for the 2012 romney campaign kevin madden and former obama white house press secretary robert gibbs. kevin, i'm going to start with you, your biggest takeaway from the debate last night? >> well, i think you saw a little bit of the big moments that folks were looking for for breakthroughs in the campaigns. you had the fight between vivek ramaswamy and nikki haley over foreign policy, which kind of represented the more of a nationalist focus on national security and then a traditional sort of national security conservative with nikki haley, and then the fight between vivek ramaswamy as well. he was in a lot of fights last night with mike pence sort of represented the old approach and the new approach inside the party, and so those type of breakdowns, i think, are sort of reflective of some of the debates that many of these voters are having inside the party as they try to sort of lit litigate who is going to emerge to be the real alternative to take on donald trump and whether or not that person would ever be viable in a one on one showdown with donald trump inside the primary. >> before we dive deeper on the specific issues and other key moments, your biggest takeaway. >> first, i agree with kevin. i think the debate stage is about ultimately who's going to go up against or try to get that one-on-one matchup with donald trump. he's not there last night, so they're trying to position themselves in that. i think nikki haley came out of last night having had a series of very strong moments, not just against ramaswamy but hitting tim scott, ron desantis, mike pence, donald trump. i think she probably did the best job of potentially growing the number of eyeballs you see in the google search stuff that are interested, people that are interested in learning more about her. that's what's important about this. how do you take the format and drive your message? i think she clearly understood how to meet the moment when she got those questions, how to interact and hit others where i saw some people on that stage just really not all that comfortable with using the format to drive their message to something bigger. >> like who? >> i thought ron desantis was a little programmed. he didn't feel to me like he understood much of the for a momen -- format. he didn't really think how to use the format against other candidates. he sort of did his talking points, and then it went to somebody else. i think ron desantis needed a bigger night. i think the fact that ramaswamy's getting so much attention is likely a lot of people understanding in their polling that he's on the upper trajectory, not hitting ron desantis shows he's a bit on the downward trajectory. >> you mentioned ramaswamy and nikki haley really getting in the mix on some of the big issues. let's take a look at one of those moments on the issue of abortion, which came up early. let's watch. >> after i gave my life to jesus cries as my lord and savior, i opened up the book and i read before i formed you in the womb, i knew you and i knew from that moment on the cause of life had to be my cause. >> would you sign a six-week ban federally? >> i'm going to stand on the side of life. >> we must have a president of the united states who will advocate and fight for at the minimum, a 15 week minimum. >> let's treat this like a respectful issue that it is and humanize the situation and stop demonize the situation. >> republicans seemed divided on this one. >> well, i think what you're seeing there is this very delicate balance that the party has to sort of figure out as it goes through a primary, and then has to have a candidate come out viable enough for a general election. now, if you look at mike pence's answer, that is a direct play -- excuse me, that is a direct play to evangelicals in iowa. he knows that his path in nomination requires him to win somewhere. in iowa given how prominently evangelicals, that's the most important message he could have sent last night. nikki haley on the other hand, i think she probably recognizes that it's a very difficult issue. if we're going to drive a certain level of consensus with it and still have candidates that are viable in some of these swing areas afternoon the country that are crucial to winning a general election, the suburb areas of all the battleground states like michigan, north carolina, georgia, then you have to have a message that's a little bit more appealing to women voters, suburban voters, independent voters in those states. >> and she's the only woman, right, of those candidates. >> that's also very apparent to a lot of the folks that are watching. i think that's a debate that's probably going to be more prominent now. >> foreign policy issues, whether to send more aid to ukraine, the threat of china also created a heated exchange. let's watch this. >> today ukraine is not a priority for the united states of america. >> the problem that vivek doesn't understand is that he wants to hand ukraine to russia. he wants to let china eat taiwan. he wants to go and stop funding israel. you don't do that to friends. what you do instead is you have the backs of your friends, ukraine is a front line of defense. this guy is a murderer, and you are choosing a murderer over an american country. >> ramaswamy took a lot of fire there. how revealing was that? >> look, and kevin and i know this well. the longer you get into this process, the more people ask you questions about your real views, and you get a sense of the depth that these candidates do or don't have. i think the challenge for ramaswamy is i think he's got a really good 30 second answer that gets a lot of people clapping. i think when people ask him about 9/11, when people ask him about ukraine, the specifics of it you can see he's a bit out of his depth. nikki haley used that moment, foreign policy as the former u.n. ambassador is going to be her calling card here. she uses that moment, hits him on being inexperienced, taking him on, driving a message on russia and china. again, she understood the format. she understood exactly how to pivot off of people and use quite frankly somebody else's moment to steal the spotlight and show leadership and make it her moment. so a really important, i think, series of clips and exchanges that i think she showed that she commanded that stage better, i think, than any of the other candidates. i would say too whether it was on the abortion question or on the ukraine question, again, i go to ron desantis. in the ukraine question, do you support or oppose more money. i think europe should do more, and then nikki haley hit them on europe doing a lot. on the life question do you support a six-week ban or 15-week ban. i'm for life. these are answers that make him sound very much like a politician. it's what ramaswamy's doing well in not sounding like a politician. it's what trump does well in not sounding like a politician. desantis is going to have to sound a lot less like a politician if he wants to get this nomination. >> i got to leave it there, guys, quickly, you can finish last word, go ahead, kevin. >> these performances are always about attributes and i think the reason that was a big moment was that nikki haley probably gave the most presidential answer there, and that matters to a lot of the viewers watching at home. >> kevin madden and robert gibbs, great discussion, guys, i wish we had a little bit more time. never enough time for these conversations. we're going to hear from how voters are reacting to the debate, plus we'll talk about trump's counterprogramming strategies still to come. thank you for joining us. stay tuned for more on the debates and the politics. also ahead here on "ana cabrera reports," the latest on the suspicious plane crash that appears to have killed wagner chief yevgeny prigozhin, what message does this send to people who challenge vladimir putin? 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(vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. we're back with the latest on the suspicious plane crash that appears to have killed yevgeny per fwoeshen, a one-time top figure in the kremlin who led that botched mutiny this summer. nbc news has not confirmed that the wagner group leader was on the flight, but the official passenger list shows prigozhin on board. all ten people on that flight were killed. here's nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engel. >> reporter: was this putin's revenge? russian aviation officials say a corporate jet fell from the sky wednesday and that putin's one-time aide turned enemy, yevgeny prigozhin was among the ten people killed. everything about this crash is suspicious. the flight took off from moscow, reached 28,000 feet, then disappeared from radar dropping quickly and uncontrollably suggesting the plane was hit by a missile or there was a bomb on board. witnesses describe hearing an explosion and seeing the plane break into pieces. i heard a big bang, he said, a wing flew off in one direction and the fuselage went like that, and then it glided down on one wing. the timing is also suspicious. two months to the day after prigozhin, the leader of the wagner mercenary group launched a mutiny against the kremlin sending a convoy of his fighters towards moscow challenging putin's grip on power. prigozhin stopped after reaching a deal with putin for amnesty that few believed was genuine. a wagner member said the group will continue to operate under new management. we have other commanders who we obey and we will operate further. what's happened has happened. we have to stay together, he said. prigozhin was last seen just days ago somewhere in africa where wagner has interest in gold and diamond mines. it's unclear why he return to moscow and boarded the plane. >> and richard's joining us mow. do we think we'll ever get an answer about what really happened here, what brought down that plane? >> reporter: i'm not sure if we're going to get a straight answer from russian investigators, especially if the russians were behind this. we spoke to an american airline crash investigator, an expert in this kind of thing, and he said that what -- based on the videos that he's seen and thinking about the issue, it did not look like a normal crash. aircraft don't break apart in midair and fall like a coke bottle to use his words, that something catastrophic happened mid-flight. his inclination was more the theory of a bomb on board. if you look at online forums in russia, what wagner supporters are saying, what wagner's opponents are saying, there's a lot of speculation that a bomb was put on board while this aircraft was in moscow and 30 minutes after it took off, it had this catastrophic incident in midair. but these are just reports. there's a lot of speculation going on right now among different teegram and other encrypted programs. will we ever find out exactly the truth? it seems unlikely. >> just the outcome here and the mystery around it i'm sure sends the message that putin would like it to send, which is don't cross me. thank you very much for your reporting. we're also following some breaking news out of california this morning. a deadly shooting at a historic biker bar. four people are dead, including the shooter, after that overnight incident at cook's corner bar. six others were injured. police say the shooting may have been a targeted attack on the shooter's wife. we've also learned the gunman was a retired police officer. he was killed during an exchange of fire with officers. cook's corner bar has been a southern california fixture since the 1930s. up next on "ana cabrera reports," the tightening security in georgia ahead of donald trump's surrender later today. plus, he wasn't on the debate stage. instead, donald trump's counter programming brought him to the platform formerly known as twitter with tucker carlson, and it got in the word of one analysis, weird. weird. 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(vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. welcome back. security is tight in atlanta this morning where donald trump is expected to surrender and be booked in just a matter of hours. this is the fourth time trump has had to turn himself in. trump's supporters have called for a rally outside the jail at this hour, which trump has promoted on social media. so let's go to nbc's gabe gutierrez who's outside nearby. gabe, set the scene for us. did people turn out, and what are the logistics for trump's surrender? >> reporter: good morning, we're here outside the fulton county jail just down the street, around the corner from my colleague blayne alexander was reporting earlier in the hour. there is a larger presence here. we can start taking live pictures from our camera, from randy brown and my other colleague. in the last hour or so we have noticed a significant ramping up of a security presence here, sheriff's deputies have been e erecting barricades. we saw them put up an extra layer of barricades here outside the parking lot where the media has been set up. nothing unruly so far. we have been speaking with several of these demonstrators, many of them telling me they do not believe that the these -- they believebogus. they believe that former president trump is being unfairly targeted here, and they're here to show their support for the former president, and you see these signs that are up here, justice is blind, not selective, and several dozen demonstrators here, probably a little bit more than 100 now. ana, i have been to previous court proceedings from the former president in new york and in miami, similar atmosphere than what we saw there, although not as big of a crowd perhaps as in miami, but in terms of the large scale protests that the former president may have been calling for, that has not materialized. of course it is still early. what we can tell you is local authorities are taking this very seriously. those barricades put up in the last hour or so. as blayne reported earlier in the hour, we expect the former president to arrive here in atlanta later on this afternoon and potentially be booked later on tonight, ana. >> it's interesting trump was calling for people to show up and a lot of those people according to the signs that they're holding are anti-trump demonstrators. thank you, keep us posted. we have some breaking news on the georgia investigation. house judiciary chairman jim jordan has sent a letter to fani willis demanding information about the investigation and trump's indictment. let's get to nbc's ryan nobles on the hill. what can you tell us about this, ryan? >> ana, this is a similar playbook we've seen the house judiciary chairman jim jordan use in past indictments related to donald trump. he did this when alvin bragg indicted the former president. he's sent a letter to fani willis, the district attorney in fulton county asking for any information that would touch the federal government in any way, shape, or form as it relates to her investigation, specifically interested in any communications that willis has had with the special counsel, jack smith as it relates to his indictment of the former president, as it relates to his attempts to overturn the 2020 election. he's also asking for information about any federal funds that were used by willis and her team as it relates to this investigation and subsequent indictment. and that's very purposeful. there's very little that jim jordan and house republicans can do as it relates to the day-to-day investigation because it is a state investigation. so he's looking for opportunities to try and kind of look into what they're they're it relates to the federal government. that's why you see them asking for federal funds in their interaction with the counsel. alvin bragg was pretty successful at holding off the house judiciary requests. of course there's absolutely no coincidence at all to the timing of this letter happening on the day the former president's decided to surrender. >> ryan nobles, thank you, and keep us posted on any new developments there. on the eve of trump's surrender in georgia, just minutes before his gop rivals took the debate stage last night, the former president launched his own sort of counter programming, an interview uploaded to the platform now called x, formerly twitter. it was beguiling at points, 46 minutes with tucker carlson kofg everything from conspiracy theories about jeffrey epstein's death to questions about the potential for civil war here at home. >> do you think it's possible that there's open conflict? >> i don't know, i don't know because i don't know what it -- you know, i can say this, there's a level of passion that i've never seen. there's a level of hatred that i've never seen, and that's probably a bad combination. >> joining us now is brian stelter, veteran media insider and author of "hoax: donald trump, fox news, and the dangerous distortion of truth." brian, so nice to see you. if -- great to see you. >> if trump was trying to upend the debate, it this do it for him? >> i think this was a total flop. that's what's most interesting, not the content of the interview which were the usual recycled conspiracy theories and lies. the fact that trump tried to take attention away from his rivals. he is still clearly the front runner, but both of these men, tucker and trump, they want to seem independent, free of the rnc, free of fox, and that is appealing to their debate audience, but by the end of the debate it was as if this trump interview never happened, it was irrelevant. this morning trump and carlson fans are trying to claim it was widely viewed, more popular than the debate. that is baloney. twitter view counts are wildly overstated. the truth is this interview was an after thought. >> tucker carlson, donald trump, they both have a deep connection to fox. some would argue they were largely propped up by fox for years. last night trump was calling fox his competition. let's listen. >> yeah. >> we're doing this interview, but we'll get bigger ratings using this crazy forum that you're using than probably the debate, our competition. >> so just like he cares about the polls, he cares about the ratings, all about the numbers, right? well, the x platform says it logged more than 150 million views of this interview. you say that is false. explain that and what are the early numbers for that fox debate? >> yeah, i am just now getting early overnight numbers and they're stronger than expected. when it comes to these view counts on x or twitter, think about an apple versus an entire apple orchard. the trump carlson interview was one single apple. it's impossible to count video views, the same way we count, scrolling past a tweet for one second counts as a view. right now there's about a million people watching us on television. every second if we added that up, we can multiply that by seconds and minutes, we could claim that this segment is being viewed a billion times. the reality is there's about a million viewers. that's the kind of funny math that is going on on elon musk's website. that's why trump can claim he was the winner last night when, in fact, he was not. the nielsen ratings for the actually debate are pretty strong. for example, in new york the debate was more popular than all the four major broadcast networks combined. the predictions of 5, 6, 7 million viewers, i think that's going to turn out to be low. i think we're going to see numbers more like 8, 9, 10, 11 million viewers for this debate. that matters, it shows us a lot of interest in these other candidates. yes, trump is dominant, but the ratings are going to tell us, the full numbers will come out this afternoon. then they're going to show us, there was actually a lot of interest in these other gop candidates. >> real quickly, i've got to squeeze this last one in here. jeffrey epstein, civil war, what do you make of where tucker carlson took the conversation? >> it's tucker trying to drag trump even deeper into the qanon conspiracy world. unfortunately, trump barely resisted that temptation, and it tells us a lot about where tucker and the far right are going. the question is whether the entire gop is going to follow him or not. last night they made both of those men look kind of small. >> brian stelter, really appreciate your insights, your analysis, thank you so much for being here. >> thanks. up next on "ana cabrera reports," from defenders of the law to indicted co-defendants, the legal trouble eight of donald trump's top legal allies including rudy giuliani are facing in georgia. and could a judge treat those lawyers more harshly when they head to trial? to trial? 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(vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. welcome back. we are still keeping our eyes on georgia as we wait for trump and more of his co-defendants to surrender at the atlanta jail you see here. out of the 19 total co-defendants, a whopping eight of them are lawyers, people who swore to uphold the constitution and to follow the law. people like rudy giuliani, a formerly prolific prosecutor and the man who once appeared on the cover of time as america's mayor. but now the first thing you see when you search rudy giuliani on google is his new mug shot from fulton county. here he is yesterday just after he was booked. >> fani willis will go down in american history as having conducted one of the worst attacks on the american constitution ever when this case is dismissed. i am being indicted without a lawyer. >> joining us now, nbc's ken dilanian and back with us barbara mcquade. it's so unusual to see even just one lawyer charged, and now we see eight. >> yeah, ana, it's historic. historians and legal scholars will be studying this case for years. this was essentially a conspiracy, an alleged conspiracy involving the legal system to subvert the political system, and it required lawyers in order to make -- to make it work in terms of bringing these allegedly bogus claims into court and then trying to subvert the lawful transfer of power with a false elector scheme and other kinds of schemes. and what is so remarkable about these -- this group of lawyers is that they were -- some of them were quite prominent. in addition to rudy giuliani, well respected people in their fields for years before they suddenly turn and adopted these bizarre theories that have now land them in legal trouble. i mean, even jeffrey clark, for example, who has gotten a lot of ridicule, lower level environmental justice department official, he went to harvard, he graduated from georgetown law. people are asking what happened to these people, sidney powell, who, you know, presented a lot of the craziest theories that didn't hold up about election fraud was for years considered a normal attorney. and what is so interesting about all these lawyers is that many of them are either have been disciplined by their local bar associations or are subject right now to disciplinary proceedings. so their own professions are essentially disowning them and saying this is not how you practice law and now they're facing potential serious criminal penalties. >> ken points out these are people who really should know better. do judges treat lawyers more harshly compared to regular citizens when they go to trial? >> well, during the trial, no. they will get the same kinds of due process and presumptions of innocence as any other defendant. but i think at sentencing there can be extra harshness in the penalties for lawyers. for example, in the federal system, there is an enhancement under the sentencing guidelines for abuse of a position of trust. and lawyers do have that position of trust in society. they also have an ethical responsibility to use those talents, those skills and their license to advance the public good. so when rudy giuliani says i'm being charged for practicing law, that's absolute nonsense. he's being charged because he's alleged to have lied in public forums, to have pressured people to change the outcome of an election by illegal means. those are the crimes with which he's charged. he's not charged simply for representing someone who lost an election. >> barbara, i wanted to take a walk down memory lane and play some sound from another trump lawyer, his former fixer, michael cohen. listen. >> he doesn't give you questions, he doesn't give you orders. he speaks in a code. and i understand the code because i have been around him for a decade. >> so, as a lawyer, what is expected of you when you have a client who seems to thrive in legal gray areas or who acts like trump and seems to speak in code? >> yeah, a lawyer has a responsibility to be clear about what they are communicating and what they are going to do. and so it may be that that is the way the mob boss works and underlings understand the orders and go out and do the dirty work. but a lawyer has to be above board at all times and it is the lawyer's job to keep the client on the up and up. i don't think that strategy is going to prevail here. >> you keep all of us on the up and up. barbara mcquaid, thank you so much for being here. ken dilanian, thank you. up next on "ana cabrera reports," debate reaction from the milwaukee suburb responsible for every recent gop win in that battleground state. what wisconsin voters are telling us after trump's absence from the debate stage. ence from the debate stage. ok that i had to go out and get a website. i'm at a point now where i've outgrown my house. growing up, every time i'd get out of the shower, i would itch. my first experience with goat milk soap, it kinda was like a light bulb moment. tiktok is a fantastic platform for diy. if you'd have told me three years ago that i would own my own business and be expanding into a separate building, i would've told you you'd lost your mind. 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(vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. with nearly the whole gop field on stage, voters got a chance to see who else could lead the party, besides former president trump. here's some reaction from voters in iowa and new hampshire. >> i love the energy that vivek brought. you look at it, he was raising his hand all the time, super energetic about everything he said. you didn't see that from the other candidates. >> nikki haley performed so admirably tonight, proved she could respond to poise, substantive. >> i thought chris christie, it was a good sign maybe there is a lot of hope on the moderate side of the republican party. >> now joining us from wisconsin, the state that hosted the debate, nbc news correspondent shaq brewster. shaq, you were at a watch party in a key milwaukee suburb. what did you hear? >> reporter: that's right, ana. we watched the debate with the family, in their living room, here in waukesha, a republican stronghold in this battleground state. i'll tell you, everyone walking into this, everyone in that room, at least with the family, they all voted for president donald trump twice. they said they're likely to support trump again, but they were interested in hearing from other candidates and getting fresh ideas. listen to what they told me right after the debate ended. >> i liked scott. he impressed me. >> that young man, vivek -- >> ramaswamy? >> yes, he's very -- he speaks very well and he tells the people what they really want to say. >> you were liking her initially? >> i don't have a problem with her. she's kind of milquetoast. i thought she's done. because he has so many followers. and if you bad mouth trump, it is really not going to be good for you politically. >> reporter: i'll tell you, the most animating moment for the group, by far, was when the conversation shifted to foreign policy and ukraine. you remember that moment when candidates were asked to raise their hand if they want to end future funding for ukraine. well, everyone in the room, the family, they all raised their hands as well. they were very opposed to the idea of additional money for ukraine. you heard them talk about wanting that money to be spent here at home. it is just a sign of what you see play out on the debate stage and how it connects with folks here in this battleground state of wisconsin. >> it is always really interesting to hear from the voters themselves to understand what's inside their minds. were any minds changed about any of the candidates after this debate? >> reporter: you know, no minds were completely flipped. but for so many of them, they said, i want to hear more from this candidate. they realize that they have time. two of them said they never watched a debate before. a presidential debate, a primary debate. usually don't watch this, but hearing the candidates, hearing what they have to say, hearing the new ideas, it made them interested. the one big surprising moment i also heard from was a person who said he's likely to vote for trump again, he said 100% he's supporting former president trump, but he said he liked chris christie. he said initially he wanted to hear from anyone except chris christie. but he said that he liked the way chris christie presented himself on that debate stage. >> that is really surprising, given the kind of clash we have seen between those two specifically leading up to this debate. shaq brewster, thank you very much for bringing us all of that. that's going to do it for us here today. so great to have you with us. i'll be back tomorrow, friday! same time, same place. can you tell i'm excited? until then, i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york. jose diaz-balart picks up our coverage right now. >> good morning. it is 11:00 a.m. eastern, 8:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart. we're just hours away from former president donald trump having to be a primetime surrender to authorities in atlanta, charged in an alleged scheme to overturn the 2020 election results in georgia. it comes less than a day before the deadline for all 18 of his co-defendants that turned themselves in. nine having surrendered so far. trump skipped last night's republican presidential debate, but his shadow loomed large over the stage. we'll break down the biggest moments. the kremlin, eerily silent this morning after the man who le

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