hi, ari. hi, nicolle. thanks so much. i'm ari melber. tonight we have a special report on a story that we broke and we have been bringing you updates on -- a report on the meaning of these roger stone tapes, why they go out more widely than just his own criminal exposure, and in writing a response from him tonight. he's not on the program, but he wrote a response to what we broke last night. i will share that with you as well as the hour continues. we begin with major news involving the georgia case against donald trump's many indicted coconspirators. because we are seeing the wheels of justice turn, and if you have been living through this in america and you've followed, say, the case in new york, which is mostly about donald trump's business history, and perhaps some of his potential campaign finance shenanigans or the case in federal courts in washington, which involve donald trump and one or two other people, well, now we're seeing the wheels of justice grind in a very different way. it is, and i say this with all seriousness, not news hyperbole, it is unlike any criminal justice proceeding we have seen for a group or alleged gang of racketeering influence people to ever come out of any white house. one by one, they are, today, turning themselves into the fulton county jail. trump himself, the defendant atop the rico conspiracy set to turn himself in thursday. today, trump's coup lawyer, john eastman, went in there, turned himself in to authorities. this is footage of him outside of that courthouse. he is out on a $100,000 bond. the other trump codefendant to turn himself in is an individual that may be less well known, but according to the d.a., this is an alleged rico gang that you're looking at. that means the acts of one are the responsibility of all. that is the case. that is tough the beat. if they beat it, we'll announce they beat it. but if they don't, this is an alleged gang. and so one of the individuals, his name's scott hall, he's accused of a very specific act, breaking into voting machines. now, 2 of the 19 have now surrendered. so most of the people in this rico conspiracy have yet to do so. others agreed to their bonds. this jail is open 24/7. that means these codefendants could come in at any time. the official deadline set by the d.a. is friday. we have more on that, how she's not moving off her deadline for anyone. we'll goat that later. but the big muse today is seeing someone who you might remember from the january 6th hearing or our special reports because we have had our eye on him for a long time. the reason is he incriminated himself a lot. he upped his criminal exposure. he wrote down a coup. i'm talking about john eastman. he just had his lawyer discussing these charges last night on "the beat." >> if you could tell us who's paying you for mr. eastman's counsel. >> with any client i could never get into who's paying the bills and all that sort of -- that's privileged, obviously. >> fact check, legally true. lawyers have confidentiality. they have certain privileged items, and that can include the nature of the preparation of defense -- who's funding and it what the plans are at trial. ands that's fine. our system says that's fair because they're going up against the government. they're going up against georgia police, prosecutors, all the evidence they've gathered. they, criminal defense attorneys and their clients can stay quiet, just like we've discussed everyone has a right to silence under our system. now, that is context for what just happened today. i didn't know last night when i spoke to mr. eastman's lawyer this would happen today. john eastman chose today to turn himself in. our nbc camera crews caught up with him as he was leeing the courthouse, and our reporter asked him some questions. it was going to be interesting to find out what the defendant had to say. >> do you still think the election is stolen? >> absolutely. >> absolutely. still. >> no question. >> and you won't answer on immunity from prosecution? >> won't answer. >> do you think others have a standing on that in that case, like meadows in. >> no comment. >> did they do a mug shot and everything inside? >> no comment. >> who's paying your legal fees? >> i am. >> you saw some of the questions there from multiple reporters, including our nbc colleague alley vitali. while he did duck some answers he also started revealing things, including he is paying his own legal fees, meaning donald trump and his pacs are not, which adds information that his own lawyer didn't want to reveal last night. mr. eastman, who has broke so many rules -- i mean, he's facing disbarment and while legally presumed innocent he broke some if not all laws leading up to this case. he's also tonight broken the rule explained by the artist pop smoke. certain things ain't never oregon change. never speak to them guys without that you are lawyer, because they're giving more time. a lot of people can't hand it will pain, more time. mr. eastman proved to be the kind of lawyer who's facing disbarment and his own charges and needs a new lawyer. and now he's given up that add vis from pop smoke and other legal experts. don't talk to those guys without your lawyer, especially when you don't have your whole defense worked out. i want to bring in the former rnc chair and msnbc analyst michael steele who knows a lot about politics, hardball politics, but also the line where politics can turn into crime. i mentioned this is a rico case unlike anything we've seen. you have to go back to nixon to look at that period. so you may or may not weigh in on mr. eastman's approach to share more than his lawyer wanted him to, talking without the lawyer present, as well as what it means for us to, as i said, see a process we've never seen before. the charges are they're a rico gang. bringing them in one by one this week. >> yeah, the first thing out of the box is yeah, every answer should be no comment, even if it's in the easy throwaway answer. certainly you don't want to answer a question, oh, do you believe the election was stolen? that kind of feeds into the narrative of why you're in the situation in the first place. it just -- it is the arrogance, and not just belief but in thinking they can beat the system. but what the prosecution is showing in georgia, what jack smith is showing and, what we've seen elsewhere, the level of seriousness with which this is being taken, and that the veneer of being a former president, being former counsel to the president, to being an adviser to the president, having worked in the white house -- thankfully all of that is melting away, ari. because for me from the very beginning, the moment this whole thing began, that gift that was given to you by the american people to be president, to be a counsellor to the white house, to the president, you began to throw that away, to strip it bare from yourself and to throw it in the trash. and so you don't now claw back that protection. you don't claw back that title to cover yourself. and so the prosecutors are showing, yeah, we're not going to allow you to do that. if you run your mouth you're going to jail, which is what the state of georgia has essentially said to donald trump. so i think this is a turning point in the way these things are being prosecuted, and most importantly, i think also the question about payment, who's paying the bills. i think the hard reality of trump's loyalty has been born out here, and yeah -- >> you want to get into that. >> well, look, yeah, the reality -- >> i'll bring one up. >> i'll bring something up, michael. there has to be lines and values. there has to be accountability. on the other hand, i don't wish suffering on people. i think the best road is facts, accountability, redemption. i've covered case where is people made mistakes. they came out better on the other side. hopefully they didn't reoffend. we don't want more coups. i see ms. ellis, she went way over the line according to the evidence in the indictment, past the advice of legal, trying to steal an election, a coup. she's in this group. she and mr. eastman saying they're paying their own lawyer fees. they know donald trump. they were with him. they were in a bunker at the end. if there was a version of loyalty it would be that politically. ms. ellis sounds surprised this week. she's posting online on twitter and elsewhere saying, guess what? there's not going to be funds for even me? these aren't donald trump's funds. these are, as you know, opp. money trump fans donate to a group, and he won't allow the group to fund even her. what do you say to her as someone who used to run the republican party. i don't mean it with ill will. took her this long to wake up this week and realize as her life and career crumbles that he doesn't have her back. >> sorry, i don't feel shame and pity that you do. i think there's been enough evidence up to this point even before this point that should have told her and told the others, donald trump didn't give a rat's behind about any of you, and at the end of the day, the only thing he was going to do is pay for his welfare, not yours. there's too many profound examples of that. in other litigation, before you get into all of this really serious stuff, just general litigation that donald trump has been involved in when he won't pay his lawyers. if he won't pay the people who are trying to get him out of trouble, what makes you think he's going to pay your sorry behind if you're in trouble with him? so, just, you know, i'm sorry. you can't help stupid at a point. and if you continue to believe the crap that donald trump is spewing, you're going to find yourself in front of a set of prosecutors and a whole bunch of lawyers and a jury trying to figure out how you're going to pay for all of that, and that's where a lot of folks are finding themselves right now. i bet you every last one of them, when you put up that list of faces, every last one of them are scrambling trying to figure out, how the hell am i going to pay for 16, 10, 3, 2, 1 federal indictment? and they don't have the resources to do that. donald trump would not surprise me if you told him, i got your back, don't worry. then when the hammer came down and they came calling and knocking on the door, there was no one to answer that phone call or door, and here they are. the prosecution is not going to wait for them to find a lawyer. you know what i'm saying? public defender if you need it. the reality of it is this is what they bought into. so no, i'm sorry, i'm not feeling the pain on this one. >> yeah, no, first of all, we don't have to agree. i've known you long enough. all sorts of stuff we don't agree on. i'll tell you this, michael -- and this is the highest compliment in a news discourse program. >> uh-oh. >> no, i'm serious. people listening after you made that case with that evidence, a lot more people might agree with your conclusion than the way i phrased the question, so there you are, sir. >> there it is. dupe or be duped, you know? >> dupe or be duped, and as you put it, how long, right? one mistake, two mistake, oh, gosh, this was such a curveball trick. versus the one thing i think we do agree on is, as i said, it took ms. ellis until this week to figure out. there's lives on the line, democracy on the line. michael, we have a lot cooking tonight. i'm going keep it moving. appreciate you being our leadoff guest, sir. >> no problem. >> thank you, michael. michael steele, always a great way to start the program in our view. i'll tell you today, one of the georgia defendants is actually turning orn trump. everything is shifting. you're watching it with us. if you're saying gosh, everything is moving fast and things are changing, yeah. here's someone who ran the georgia republican party, david schafer. he came out as a fraudulent elector. georgia was won by president biden and he came out any way with those lies, trying to basically commit a type of voting fraud, elector fraud. here's what he's telling the court. quote, i acted at the direction of the incumbent president and other federal officials. whether that's a good legal defense is one question, whether it is a political change is obvious. this is someone who is blaming donald trump for the crimes of the coup. emily bazelon is here. i'm curious what you think about the legal journalistic and factual implications here. 60-second break and we're back with emily after one minute. ly . . and, ooh, an engineer. all learning to save and spend their money with chase. the chef's cooking up firsts with her new debit card. hungry? -uhuh. the designer's eyeing sequins. uh no plaid. while mom is eyeing his spending. nice. and the engineer? she's taking control with her own account for college. three futures, all with chase. freedom for kids. control for parents. one bank for both. chase. make more of what's yours. we're back with "new york times" legal writer emily bazelon for the magazine. welcome back. when you see a top republican official say his defense is trump ordered him to do it, what's your analysis of that? >> i imagine the prosecutors are really happy to hear that he is willing to say that and give them documents that confirm. it looks like what he's saying. because when you bring many part-time under indictment this way, yes, you're charging them all under rico, but you are hoping that the lower people on the totem pole are going to cooperate in a way that it gets other people up. that's what -- and mr. schafer are doing today. >> yeah, in a rico case that's bad for whoever the accused ringleader is. in this case donald trump stands accused of racketeering to steal an election. what about the defendant? does it help him much to say, i was in this rico and i was following the gang leader's orders? >> it could certainly help him, both in terms of the prosecutors just minimizing the amount that they're involving him in the case, but also down the line, if he gets convicted, he'll be able to say to the judge, i had less culpability. i cooperated. i turned over evidence. and i think what you're seeing here is a limit on the kinds of loyalty that trump can expect to have, from the folks around him, right? you were just talking about, if he's not showing them loyalty by paying their legal fees, this is the way in which you worry the people working for you and working with you, they were there for you, but when you might have to go to jail, things get serious, and they're not necessarily going to jeopardize actually their freedom for you. and i think that's what we're seeing here with mr. schafer. and there's been some interesting evidence mark meadows is not willing to go all the way. this is not surprising. it's one thing to be caught up in the excitement of the moment and maybe you think you're doing something political and somehow it doesn't have legal consequences, even if you should have been aware of them, but now that things are serious, the consequences become vivid and you change your tune. >> yeah. i've got just like 30 seconds left. mark meadows asked for an extension to turn himself in. d.a. willis, we can put up on the screen, said no way. what does that mean? >> i think this is the ordinary rule of law, right? she is saying i'm not making special exceptions for you because you're important. even if you have an argument that this case should be removed to federal court you need to win that first. in the meantime you're my defendant and i'm going to treat you like any other defendant in georgia. >> so she'll send the police if he doesn't avail himself of this voluntary opportunity. >> that's what she's making clear. i think he will avail himself. he'll come, unless he gets last-minute reprieve from a federal court allowing him to not show up. >> yeah. understood. a came of chicken, but one where she on the arrest front has all the cards. emily bazelon, thanks for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> absolutely. next, the special report on the state plots and roger stone evidence next. trying to control my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ enough was enough. i talked to an asthma specialist and found out my severe asthma is driven by eosinophils, a type of asthma nucala can help control. now, fewer asthma attacks and less oral steroids that's my nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. talk to your asthma specialist to see if once-monthly nucala may be right for you. and learn about savings at nucala.com there's more to your life than asthma. find your nunormal with nucala. from big cities, to small towns, there's more to your life and on main streets across the us, you'll find pnc bank. helping businesses both large and small, communities and the people who live and work there grow and thrive. we're proud to call these places home too. they're where we put down roots, and where together, we work to help move everyone's financial goals forward. pnc bank. ♪ chevy silverado has what it takes to do it all. with up to 13 camera views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? 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>> yeah. if we were speaking we'd have our own transportation like giuliani. let's go upstairs and watch this on tv. it's very clear i was never on the list. the whole thing is a con job. it's childish and amateurish. that's why they lost. they don't know what they're doing. all right, i'll talk to you in a bit. >> that's the context. and you see there the leadup. he was upset about not getting to speak and what he considered a haphazard manner, and then you see him coming out of the phone in the room telling somebody, that's why they lost. this is footage from a documentary "a storm foretold". if you watch "the beat" you may have seen me interview this filmmaker twice. this footage only exists because roger stone granted the filmmakers access to those efforts. that is very important tonight as i update you on all this, because beyond the new footage, our breakdown is going to show you how this fits into the open georgia case. >> we contacted roger stone each time we ran these stories. he did not provide a comment for us, but in terms of fairness when they commented in public after these stories air on "the beat" i want to bring you each of the comments. we showed you about the elector plot last week. stone responding again to our report last night. video had all the hallmarks of danish disinformation. we wanted to bring you his response. didn't give it to us in time for air, but that's his version of a rebuttal. it's notable if we're talking about facts that anything that one could conclude looks bad or even legally incriminating for mr. stone is from him. these are accurate videos from his mouth. these are stone's words or his truth. and these came in a project where he invited the cameras in. he knew they were going. going out and saying they were his own authorized documentary, where he authorized the access himself, is somehow propaganda disinformation is of course intention with his direct involvement. i say that for the record and as fairly as possible. now, it may sound obvious trump lost and may sound obvious to many trump knew it december 2020 he was claiming north korea was interfering in the presidential election. he was falsely asserting he had incontrovertible evidence they were supplying boats to a harbor in maine. we up pointed out in our coverage saying that in public is not a crime, and that's what stone was doing there, when giuliani and others made those to officials, they stand indicted. stone is in that ballpark, even if not legally culpable. this matters when we show you him admitting in private he knew it was all lies. intersects with something earlier in the broadcast, do people, people inclined to support trump see the facts and that they are being conned, sometimes by trump or his mini mes like stone? giuliani falsely smeared the election workers, claiming they did things they didn't do. did you know giuliani under legal pressure later had to admit, just last month, he was lying? that concession came in court papers as he fights for his career and possibly liberty. trump attorney jenna ellis back in the news pushed the false election fraud claims but then in a disciplinary hearing where she was in danger of losing her law license with her potential career ahead of her, she admitted she, quote, misrepresented evidence at least ten times during trump's bid to subvert his feat as political reporter. so, it matters that there is evidence. matters to many of these people, many of them now defendants, that the evidence and footage is adding up in a process going towards accountability. as for that elector plot, well, that was last week when we showed that trump was being boosted in that plot by stone earlier than we had ever known before. that got picked up in many outlets as news. it shows the earliest promotion of a plan that later got people indicted. roger stone was in contact with donald trump for decades. he was close enough with then outgoing president trump to get a pardon before he left office, and we know stone was also trading calls in january 2020 with trump. congressional committee's investigation showed that. it is striking he was, we now learned, one of the top people pushing that elector plot idea. keep that in mind when you look at this video excerpt. >> the final decision as to who the state legislatures -- authorize -- solely by the legislature. we must be prepared to lobby our republican legislatures. legally false. votes are not decided by politicians and state legislatures. votes are decided by voters. everybody actually knows that. now, as i have been careful to say roger stone saying those words and sending those out alone is generally not a crime. i want to be clear, based on a full investigation up to this point, the georgia d.a. and that probe has not resulted in an indictment of mr. stone. i also want to be clear about just how close the heat is, because the d.a. does allege crimes across these several coup plots that we've shown at the state level. you can see many of these things are now indicted. we have been tracking all of them for you. and stone's comments get at least near the rhetorical space of two plots. the electors plot, the seating of the fraudulent electors. the state official claiming if he broke the law as a fake elector, he did it at trump's direction. and what you heard in his own royce -- let's just get the georgia politicians to overturn the votes of the people. that's called coup and is not legal. the indictment charges eastman and ellis in the elector plot, specifically the solicitation of violation of oath by a public officer. they were doing that, seeking public officers to serve as elector of the georgia senate or in the other plots. unlawfully appointing presidential electors from georgia. again, no matter how you take the road, if you have a bunch of state electors if a state biden won, you're committing elector fraud, or as you call it here, a solicitation fraud. that is the elector plot. other on the state official side you have doj jeffly clark trying to get the doj to falsely use and abuse its government power to tell government officials that, well, maybe voter fraud marred the whole election. defendant trump accused of the same type of of state pressure campaign, including his calls to the state's governor, the attorney general, and other key voting officials. everyone is still presumed innocent, but when you take this back to roger stone, he is not indicted. he is not identified as a coconspirator. but he is now in a place he wasn't just a couples weeks ago. he was linked in november before the votes were counted to pushing -- at least the words and description of one of the plots i just showed you -- is now indicted as a very big rico case. that is a lot of heat, and the question remains as in basically every investigation, whether it is governmental, legal, or journalistic, what does the rest of the evidence show? what votes and tapes and. the do we not have? what else is it that we don't yet know? that's our special report, pulling on those strands. next up, we go back down to fulton county. all eyes there as people are turning themselves in now through friday. if they don't get there by friday, the d.a. made it clear they'll face a physical arrest. t ℠s card automatically adjusts to earn you more cash back in your top eligible spend category. hi. ♪♪ you don't have to keep tabs on rotating categories... this is the only rotating i care about. ... or activate anything to earn. your cash back automatically adjusts for you. can i get a cucumber water? earn 5% cash back that automatically adjusts to your top eligible spend category, up to $500 spent each billing cycle with the citi custom cash℠ card. i love it... 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how did it go? what does it mean for you? >> it went really -- it went really well. it was, i would say, one of the performances that i will remember forever. and it just blew my mind. it was very, very, like, musical. a lot of jamming. i got to -- i came out on stage before my set and did a -- and i got free stile with rakim. it was just like super hip-hop and cool to be around some other people i admire the most at such a supericonic time. it's the hip-hop 50 every day this year. >> you mentioned hip-hop 50. it's also acid rap 10 and you have shows for the anniversary coming up. >> excited. i all three venues i haven't played in a long time. and acid rap i didn't do in a long time. to do a whole show for acid rap -- i love seeing people that support me be excited and a lot of people are excited about the show. it's like, we're going to put on a crazy format and celebrate the project. >> what could fans expect? obviously some of the project and others too? >> all from the project. >> everything from the project. >> yeah. introducing new elements, making it more turnt up, more beautiful. that's been the funnest process is getting ready for the shows and reherring songs i haven't played in ten years. it's a beautiful thing. >> we pulled some real young chance the rapper with you and your friend talking about what you wanted to be. i just want to play this for you and get your thoughts on it. >> wow. wow. >> and he's made beats for me since, like, i don't know, seventh grade. that's crazy. that was the afterschool program i used to do. >> good job. i hope you did the good job. >> this is a poetry contest. but with music. that's cheating, low key. >> who do you see there? did that guy know he was going to make it here? >> sounds bad, but yes, that guy definitely saw it. it's like, when you're a kid, oh, man, like, just being a kid, there's nothing like it, man. because you can dream so big. when i was in high school, i was so extrovert and, like, really trying to build community around what i envisioned as my career path. like, i put out like four mix tapes when i was in high school before i made a mix tape. just doing talent shows and my own shows. a lot of that passion, i was always rapping, and i was always doing stuff like that. i was doing an afterschool program but not going to school that day. like, just coming to the afterschool park. because it gave me a lot of us access to so much information. production software, creative writing. i don't know, stage presence. like that open mic, i used to do an open mic like every wednesday. that guy was very much so like, trying to be famous, ma! >> you seem really -- about working across different types of art. just in this brief conversation you're talking about chappelle, who's curating this. digital art, you cited. this hole -- going to a space that may not have always been as successful, and remixing that. then you have this work you're doing where you guys were in ghana, jamaica. tell us about that festival, what it means to you. it's a space, a lot in charge o things. >> black starline fest was so beautiful. being in africa with some of the top artists from the states and from the uk and from across africa, and you know, being in community with all of those artists, and like, how we're in position to curate and produce and create festivals on our own now, like, that was that vibe. i mean, that's literally what it was, a black festival. in africa, with t. pain, erykah badu, dave chappelle and me and vic and all these people. it's like how we wanted to put it together. we wanted it to be free, educational, multi-day, based in something, based in pan africanism, based in i'm not going to say all my politics because there's a lot of political people. you know what i be on, but yeah, just being in that, it's like again, it's like it's a part of a larger renaissance that's just happening. >> yeah, you talk about politics and we don't have to go deep on it, but your fluency with it, your family's connections to the obamas and coming out of chicago, what does it mean to you over time? >> history is history and it's what we learn from, but i don't -- i don't know that the political systems as they're set up right now or how they have been set up for since the inception of america, it's like, one, not working obviously, but two, i don't know how long it's going to stay that way. because we're just all not at our own fault, losing faith and belief in the integrity of the systems that are at play. the older you get, the more you understand, just the bureaucracy and how, like, stagnant stuff has been for a lot of groups, but definitely for black folks in america. >> the last thing i want to show you video wise, just the funny chance. because again, you have subverted a lot of what people think about what a rapper has to be. there's these other other dimensions you have been confident or open enough to share, which is not '90s rapper stuff. this is just funny stuff we found. >> okay, i'm here with -- can you turn around so i can get a name? yes, that is an s, a k, and a j all next to each other so that's a no. we're in love. and with love, there are no rules. >> they're both from chicago. those are my people. >> hi, welcome to another edition of between two ferns. >> i forgot i did this. >> chance the rapper. you're friends with kanye west. that's the joke. >> i don't like that joke. >> you put the rapper in the name, which always seemed like a bit of its own gag. but do you have to add something else? is it also chance the comedian, the artist? >> i love comedic acting. i love funny stuff. i'm from chicago, so a lot of my friends grew up doing second city and stuff like that. and i used to do improv at thunder dome, and i just grew up loving "snl" so that was always a given when i was coming up rapping, one of my goals was to make it on snl for raps. >> that's different from most rappers, don't you think? >> not different from mc hammer. my older cousin was a big hammer fan. hammer was just a little bit before my time. i was born in '93. when hammer did "snl" he became the first rapper to do double duty on the show. so he was the host and in all the sketches and he also performed twice. i had a video cassette that my cousin handed down to me of his "snl" thing he taped and i used to watch it all the time. i was like, i'm going to do this one day. what was awesome is when i got to focus on the show, i got to get back into my old writing bag and i wrote five sketches for the show, and three of them made it to air, i think. or two of them made it to air, three made it to dress rehearsal. the famous steve harvey illegitimate son family feud episode, that was me and my homey reese, and the batman, we got to do something about batman. those two are -- yeah, i love comedy. i love film overall. and yeah, it's always fun to just go and play. like do some funny acting, do some games. >> chance the rapper, thank you so much. >> we appreciate chance coming through. this is part of season eight of our mavericks series. thanks to everyone for supporting it through all this where we set aside time for these artists conversations. we also tackled more than what we were able to show you, including what chance calls the harlem renaissance of black culture. here's some of us at the blue note festival in california. you can see the full interview at msnbc.com/mavericks or go to msnbc.com/ari where you can see that and our roger stone coverage. thanks as always for spending time with us on "the beat." ♪(epic music)♪ my renaissance was daring to dream. 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"the reidout" with joy reid starts now. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> do you still think the election was stolen? >> absolutely. >> absolutely? still? >> no question. no question in my mind. >> brilliant constitutional scholar john eastman could be so brilliant that he ends up in prien for years for helping mastermind trump's election plot. today he and another trump co-defendant surrendered in atlanta. plus, breaking news in the classified documents case. as mar-a-lago's it guy changes his lawyer and his story. and it

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