news. tropical storm hilary has made lionel vallow in the back happen insulin after it was downgraded from hurricane status. the national hurricane status said that the storm will likely cause catastrophic and life-threatening flooding in the region. and in parts of the southwest united states through monday. southern california it's already impacting millions of people there. to make matters worse a 5.1 magnitude earthquake also in southern california earlier today. as of now there have not been any reports of damage or injuries. a historic rainfall and reports of flooding and power outages are already happening in the area. like you see here in palm springs, california. according to the national weather service the city has seen 2.6 inches of rain since midnight in record high for the date. mexico seen the worst flooding so far in places like santa rosa liana, one person drowned yesterday with his vehicle when it was swept away. storms expected to be the first tropical storm in southern california and 84 years. we're gonna be following all that for you and bring you updates if we have them throughout the evening. but switching now to other big stories that are breaking. tonight to big developments in the classified documents case against donald trump. remember that one, x chief of staff, mark meadows, told special counsel investigators that he does not recall donald trump ordering or even discussing the classifying -- materials before leaving the white house. that's according to new reporting from abc news. that same report says that meadows told investigators that he's unaware of any standing order from trump authorizing the automatic declassification of materials taken out of the oval office. meadows account directly contradicts trump's biggest offense in the mar-a-lago classified documents. you may recall trump of course insisting, his whole argument was that he declassified everything before leaving office. moments ago a trump campaign spokesperson said that this reporting was incomplete. it lacked proper context. but he didn't provide any evidence to support their claim and just as this report dropped, guess who else made the same claim, mike pence. >> in my case i wasn't remain aware of any broad based effort to declassify documents. there's a process that the white house goes through to declassify materials. i'm aware of that occurring on several occasions over the course of our four years. but i don't have any broad directive from the president. but that doesn't mean it didn't occur. it's just not something i ever heard about. >> trump faces 40 separate criminal charges related to his possession of those documents. in total he staring down a staggering 91 criminal counts in four different jurisdictions and indictments. it's now increasingly clear that he's cracking under the pressure of these legal cases. within the last few days we witnessed two key signs that donald trump's legal troubles really have had been terrified to put it motley. but first, his out of court their decision to cancel a scheduled press conference from monday. earlier this week trump promised that he's gonna make public remarks, present a quote, irrefutable report on election fraud in georgia. that somehow would exonerate the position he's taken since 2020. but then, on thursday evening in a post on his failed social media site, trump canceled. he basically tried sullivan said that the report would not be released. citing the advice of his lawyers. imagine that, trump listening to lawyers. donald trump following the advice of counsel is hard to believe. we did a paid girl pair of wings and fly somewhere. it's not -- this week you had trump's attorneys asking judge chan yet chuck into delay the interference until, wait for it, not 2025, not the end of 2024. until 2026. yes, you heard that. right to the ex president wants to push back a trial, full two years after voters head to the polls. and he task you, straight up, does that sound like normal behavior for someone who claims they did nothing wrong, when they truly innocent person wanted to be exonerated and clear their name as quickly as possible. especially a candidate with an election that's quickly approaching. the truth, is donald trump may soon be charlie facing accountability for perhaps the first time in his life. and that's quite honestly left donald trump afraid, very afraid. joining me now are glenn kirschner, msnbc legal analyst. a former federal prosecutor donna edwards, contributor and former democratic representative of maryland. and eddie law junior, msnbc political analyst and professor of african american studies at princeton university. great to have all three of you with us. brian, let me start with you, first of, all get reaction to breaking news on two fronts. you have mark meadows, mike pence effectively and now openly contradicting trump on a key part of his defense strategy. which was that he declassified everything there. and on the record publicly, i imagine also privately to the legal authorities to jack smith saying. we don't know of any standing order to declassify documents. and these are the two i would argue, two closest people in his decision-making process if you will. and certainly, if he gave that order you would think that the vice president and mark meadows would know about it. >> this highlights the importance of the fact. that the trial witnesses of donald trump when prosecutors can finally drag trump and his defense lawyers into court before a jury. the trial witnesses are gonna be exclusively republicans. mark meadows will testify assuming he's in a position to testify rather than being prosecuted and sitting at defense council table shoulder to shoulder with donald trump. mike pence will almost certainly testify. all of those republican witnesses we saw during the january six house select committee hearings. these are gonna be the trial witnesses against donald trump. and if someone can explain to me how donald trump can persuasively say this is the product of some democrat led witch hunt. when almost all of the witnesses against him are going to the republicans. some of his own cabinet officials, some of his own closest advisers. i have said all along that it was taking a very long time to indict these cases. but once they're actually in trial, standing before 12 citizens members of the community, there to decide based only on the evidence not on press releases, tweets, or potus. what donald trump did or didn't do. it's not gonna be that difficult to hold donald trump accountable. and to win convictions. >> let me ask you, for mark meadows for a moment, abc news they've obtained an early copy of mark meadows's forthcoming book about his time at the white house. and that's what i wanted to ask about. it included a description of trump having a classified war plan on the couch at his office in bedminster, new jersey. at a meeting attended by meadows's ghostwriter and publicist. although meadows himself was not there i believe. it's interesting, in reference to the document being in trump's possession was removed before the book was published. imperious to your thoughts on that and what that tells us? >> what, we're gonna find out is whatever mark meadows is to write in his book, or take out of his book, once he's under oath he's gonna testify to what he knows. i think he knows a lot. he was close to the president, he was an ally of the president, right up until the very and. this claim by donald trump that he could declassify these documents was always dubious from the very beginning. those who handle classified documents, who understand the process know just what mike pence said was absolutely true. mark meadows is not gonna have a choice but to say that he's gonna tell the truth and then to do that under oath. >> i need to get your thoughts on trump's state of mind here. i know it's a tall order. as someone who's followed him now, in my possession followed him for several years. how ironic is it that trump is citing his lawyers expertise in canceling his press conference next week, where he was suppose like an apartment a quote, irrefutable report about election fraud in georgia. i gotta say this is a man who is notorious for not heeding the advice of his lawyers. for me, for us on this show, it's an indicator that perhaps he's more rattled? >> absolutely. -- kind of attempt, strategy, strategic effort. the rains were drawn as that were. what we're seeing, ayman, it's a dangerous desperation. trump is afraid. the more afraid he gets, the more dangerous he becomes. we need to watch this very, very carefully at seems to me. >> don, on his request to have the elections case trial delay to 2026, it's no surprise it's delayed. it's insane that he thinks he can have a delayed for two years after the election. we know guilty anything to avoid accountability. where do you see judge chutkan, finding a middle ground between the proposed date -- proposed date of january 2nd, 2024? >> wildes, arnold trump still is operating as though he's in control. he's absolutely not in control of the court calendar. judge chutkan is gonna make a decision that's reasonable for her calendar, and has other things going on. it's certainly not going to extend all the way to the end of 2024, 2026, as trump would like. that's all laughable away, even for donald trump. he's gonna realize that even losing control here is gonna be judge chutkan, donald trump is gonna have to play the tune. >> lana, in reporting this week we learned the special counsel asked for trump's tweets and direct messages in a search warrant at what point does trump realize that his post could also be used as evidence, how is that even still that this guy is so reckless with what he posts out. i'm thinking, what they pursued in trying to get privately. but then i look at what he posted about jeff duncan, the lieutenant governor of georgia. and basically what some people have described is intimidating a witness. this is someone who's called to the grand jury to give his testimony in fani willis's case. >> yeah, it was more than just intimidating a witness. it violated the georgia statute that prohibits influencing or attempting to influence a witness and dissuade them from testifying in an official proceeding. here's what i find so interesting, i was in the courthouse for donald trump's arraignment in the overflow courtroom watching it live streamed. the magistrate judge that donald trump serve the most important condition of your release. is that you cannot commit any federal state or local law. and if you do, you release could be revoked. and you can be detained and then -- do you understand. donald trump said he dead. and not days later he posted something to this hold -- certainly sounded like it violated the georgia state law prohibiting influencing witnesses. he said, i know lieutenant governor, former lieutenant governor jeff duncan's gun appear before the grand jury. quote, he shouldn't. he should not testify. he told the witness not to testify. it violates georgia state law. but importantly, it violated his most important condition of release. i can't wait until judge chutkan takes this on on the 28th. and here is my concern of donald trump isn't held into account for violating the most important condition of his release. what kind of signal does that send about the trustworthiness of the criminal justice system? >> let's talk big picture here. looking into 2024. michael luttig, judge michael luttig, a friend of the show along with lawrence tribe were on ali velshi show this weekend. they were discussing a recent piece they wrote, a lot of us have seen a caught people's attention in the atlantic titled, the constitution prohibits trump from ever being president again. here's what tribe had to say. take a listen. >> although those primal -- are terribly important. and it's vital of the president be held accountable and not get away scot-free. the disqualification clause operates by itself. >> and, your thoughts on the arguments being made here. does the constitution on its own disqualify donald trump from running for president. and if so, how does this play out. we'll all be up to congress, individual states to decide whether he should be on the ballot. you know the republican party won't take action about it, they've lost credibility and aspiring to be able to stand up to donald trump. but the case being made by professor tribe and judge luttig is that the constitution is clear. he shouldn't be running for president. >> i think we might need to understand that as an argument that those two are making. it's important because professor tribe is one of the most esteemed constitutional professors of law that we have in the country. and judge luttig is one of the most highly regarded conservative jurors we have in the country. that's important. but it's up for debate, i want to say, this ayman, and terms of big pincher, we always thought it was donald trump who is the problem. he's just the tip of the iceberg. he's a kind of reflection in my video of the rock that's at the heart of the party. so unless we begin to think, it's one thing to keep him out of the body politic. that makes all the sense in the world to me. but the problem cuts much deeper than donald trump. we need to move out of the melodramatic formulation or rendering, framing. we have the obvious villain if we only ritter cells of the obvious fell and. then all will be well. but what we still wednesday, you talked about it in the last hour. we're gonna see that it cuts so much deeper. i understand what professor tribe and jog lug -- argue. it's up for debate. the problem goes beyond -- >> as people have said before, you make it right of trump and trumpism is here to stay. and it's spreading in the republican party. you need to address and take that had on. panel, don't go anywhere. we have a lot more to discuss after the break. we'll talk about how this insane legal pileup is affecting the trump campaign's bottom line. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ mlb chooses t-mobile for business for 5g solutions... ...to not only enhance the fan experience, but to advance how the game is played. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. ♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪ my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. how can you sleep on such a firm setting? gab, mine is almost the same as yours. almost is just another word for not as good as mine. save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add a base. shop now only at sleep number. permission to dig in? granted. breyers carbsmart is so rich, so creamy, it tastes totally off-limits. but with only 4 grams of net carbs in every delicious serving, you've got the green light. better starts with breyers. >> no trump never been shy about how much he loves money. or rather how much he loves spending other peoples money. >> i like money. i'm very greedy. on one greedy person. i shouldn't tell you that. i've always been greedy, i love money. there's nothing like doing things with other peoples money -- i love other people's money. [laughter] >> as it turns out that approach is proving quite lustful lately. according to the new york times new financial reporting shows that trump's various political committees and the super pack backing him have use roughly 30 cents of every dollar spent so far on nothing but his legal related costs. the total amounts to more than $27 million in legal fees another investigation related bails. in just the first six months of this year. that includes payments to eight law firms for more than $1 million. each figure that will no doubt rise as trials for four separate indictments play out in courtrooms in new york, florida, and in washington, d.c.. the times notes that the political orbit is spending more than it's taking in. it's tapping into money that it raised years ago. which is an unusual trajectory this far out from an election. my panel still with me to discuss all of this. donna, it's not hyperbolic to say that donald trump's campaign has hit a serious financial wall. his save america pact which began last year with 100 $5 million. now as less than $4 million left in its account. and it kind of paints a dire picture for donald trump. how dire do you think it is. have you ever heard of anything like this for my campaign before? >> first of, almost campaigns don't spend their money that comes in from their political donors on the legal defense. donald trump has 4 to 3 civil since going on. he has a lot to spend money on. but i need to say i'll be interested to see this next quarter of fund raising. it will be after this latest indictment in georgia. it will be interesting to see whether those donors continue. there was an uptick in donations after the first indictment. it remains to be seen. his supporters don't seem to mind that they're spending 30 cents of every dollar on his legal fees. i think he's good at spending other peoples money. he hasn't dipped into his own -- yet. as long as donors are willing to pony up, he's willing to spend it. >> eddie, his gop primary rivals aren't talking about this. but chris christie made this point which is important. he said most of the money that middle class americans have given to him, he spent on his own legal fees. the grift keeps on happening with the sky. do you think voters care that he's spending their money to pay off legal bills. do they even know, our want to be funding as lawyers. talk to me about the ethics of what donald trump and his act is doing to ordinary americans? >> affix, ethics truck, donald trump those things don't go together. i think he's already trained a. i'm experiencing this for you. my legal troubles are a reflection of what i've done for you. we've heard him run this line across, throughout the country. it's a part of that cold kind of rhetoric he's using. that hard-core base they actually see their donations in a way as consistent with the general support. we can think about it in terms of a televangelism, jim and tammy faye baker like approach. constantly milking their viewers, their listeners, their followers for their own selfish aims and ends. i don't think top -- of it all. he's already made the frame to see his candidacy, his legal fees as partial and the same thing. it's right on point in my view and. >> -- yeah, i was gonna say i didn't mean the ethics for him. i met the ethics generally about the fact that he's melting these people for their money. like you said, some of the more pain because they believe in. glenn, let me get your legal take as a former federal prosecutor. you know about the resources that go into cases like these. have you ever seen such high legal costs for one defendant before, well his strategy of delaying in prolonging these trials end up costing him more money in the long run? >> now, i've never seen anybody spend this kind of money on their own defense. i think this is a danger zone for donald trump with respect to the pact money, the campaign committee money. the campaign finance laws are perhaps not as strong as they could be. when people ask, well are these crimes, it feels like it's unethical, it may be a moral, it may not be criminal. here's the danger zone as i see it. there's reporting that they're taking some of this money from donald trump's donors and their hiring lawyers to represent the witnesses who if they cooperated with the authorities could implicate and potentially incriminate donald trump. there is at least the smell that they are buying silence. i'm not saying that they're doing that. when a trump campaign spokesperson was asked about how this money that they're getting from the donors can be spent on lawyers for the witnesses, who can testify against trump. he said it's a spokesperson named stephen chung, he actually said we're doing it to protect the witnesses from financial ruin. apparently just out of the goodness of donald trump's heart. of course, if you believe that i'm sure donald trump has a bridged like to sell you. he probably throw in a couple of topples. >> i'd say if you believe that you could talk to someone named michael cohen who knows all too well how the legal fees worked for what's being paid by the trump organization suddenly dried up as soon as he decided to testify against the former president. glenn kirschner, donna edwards, -- it's always a pleasure to hear from the three of. you thank you so much for joining us tonight. still ahead, donald trump may actually be barred from being president again. the people making the argument, well, their conservative legal scholars. but first richard louis is here with the headlines. hey. richard >> an update on tropical storm hilary, the worst is yet to come. that's what california facials are saying. landfall in mexico's, bahar california soon to comes as the national weather service. several states brace for heavy rainfall, and some california's anything up to ten inches throughout this. that's why flash flood warnings are in place up and down the coast from san diego to l.a.. where the streets are already flooded due to high winds, power outages, and also -- nevada's governor declared a state of emergency. parts of arizona are being evacuated to higher ground. mexico has seen the worst flooding so far. like this in the town of santa rosalía, one person drawn there yesterday when a vehicle cole was slapped away. more ayman, with ayman mohyeldin after the short break. break. i'm a bear. i'm coming out of hibernation after the best nap of my life... and papa is hungry. and while you're hittin' the trail, i'm hitting your cooler. oh, cheddar! i've got hot dog buns! and your cut-rate car insurance might not pay for all this. so get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, like me. roar. 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[dog bark] what? my back feels better. before advil... new advil dual action back pain fights back pain two ways. for 8 hours of relief. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> conservative legal scholars are beginning to turn on trump. nearly a dozen republican appointed former judges and high-ranking federal senior legal officials have endorsed the january 2nd, 2024 trial they proposed by special counsel, jack smith, in his election interference criminal case against donald trump. the brief, which stretches a pd switch pushes up -- interest. it amounts to a considerable rebuke of trump's legal team's call for the proceedings to be essentially drawn out. meanwhile two conservative legal scholars, members of the federal society in good standing have published an audacious argument that trump's constitutionally prohibited from running for president. in that state official have not only the authority, but a legal obligation to prevent his name from even appearing on the ballot. the legal paper authored by university of chicago professor, liam bosch, and university of saint thomas professor, michael stokes paulson, centers on section three of the 14th amendment. a provision that bars those who have taken an oath to support the constitution of the united states from returning to public office if they've synced engaged in insurrection or rebellion, or given aid or comfort to those who have. joining me now is richard paint, former chief ethics lawyer to president george w. bush from 2005 2007. he's one of the legal scholars who signed on to the -- endorsing jack smith's trial date for trump in the election interference case. professor, great to see you again. thank you for making time for us. as i said, you 11 former republican appointed judges and senior legal officials have endorsed jack smith's january 2nd trial date for the election. why do you think compelled to sign on to this? >> the speedy trial provides for trial 70 days from the indictment. that would place the trial in october somewhere. but governments already willing to postpone this trial until january of 2024. that's enough. this is a case against donald trump, a single defendant in a federal case, in the district of columbia. and the charges are straightforward. donald trump has been aware of these charges being eminent for a very long time. this is a subject the january six committee investigation. it's critically important to have a speedy trial. we need to have an election in 2024 or both parties have a candidate who's qualified for public office. constitutionally, qualified. and the conduct that donald trump engaged them, they made a -- public office of their 14th amendment section three. a conviction in this case would not necessarily automatically disqualify him. but would be a powerful, a powerful impetus for those who are gonna, secretary of state's, to state court to strike him off the ballot, under the 14th amendment, section three. it's critically important to have a real election and for republicans to be able to consider other alternatives. there are other good candidates out there. a speedy trials in the public interest, we're already going over the 70 days, january this child does it need to begin. >> trump doesn't -- aa as much as possible. but do you think there's any loopholes that trump and his legal team could exploit or used to finagle their way into pushing the trial date despite your argument about the sixth amendment. >> they'll try as hard as they can to push the trial date forward. the closer they get to the republican national convention, donald trump being able to clinch the domination, the more compelling is gonna be the argument, we want a few more months until the election. because this trial is interfering with the election in the right of the voters to make a decision. and of course, if he's elected president this trial will come to an end on january 20, a 2025. he'll fire the special prosecutor, he may start prosecuting the prosecutors. he'll have complete control over the department of justice if he becomes president. that's his objective. for him, for donald trump it's either the white house, or the big house. and he's gonna keep himself out of jail, killed south out of the big house by going as far down the road as he can, and getting to the white house in 2024. this is not in the interest of the american people, not in the interest of the republican party. and the speedy trial is there for a reason, i think the judge is gonna stick to the schedule. >> when we -- won this argument made by two conservative scholars who are originally snow last. that section three of the 14th amendment disqualifies anyone who participates in a quote, insurrection or rebellion from public office and therefore makes trump ineligible to run in 2024. give me your thoughts on this, on this particular analysis, do you agree who is so with this, if so why or why not. how would this disqualification process even work legally speaking if you think it is legally feasible? >> these are the two best scholars in the country. michael stokes post with the university of minnesota for many years, teaching constitutional. law he's a very conservative scholar. a very straightforward, very honest and thorough and a scholarship. -- the history of the 14th amendment, section three, it came out of the civil war, the insurrection that we experienced over four years. there the prohibitions clear. anyone that's given aid or comfort to an insurrection, or participated in an insurrection is barred from public office. there need not be a criminal conviction of tradition or insurrection in order to trigger the ban under the 14th amendment. if this person gave -- insurrection of january six, 2021. that person's barred from public office. i believe that donald trump does meet that definition in the 14th amendment, section three. this is exactly why we have that provision, we don't want insurrectionists elected to public office, insurrectionists are very dangerous. when they get in control of a government that's exactly what happens to germany in 1933. when a convicted insurrectionist was appointed chancellor of germany. and adolf hitler turned out to be a mass murderer. we don't want insurrectionists in control of our government. -- is there for a very good reason. we need to use. it that's the job of the secretaries of state. >> you think that all americans can agree on that point. we don't want insurrectionist to hold a public office. as we've seen with some leaders in the republican party they may not be able to get themselves to that point. it's a sad state for the gop. richard paint, always -- insights as always. this week's presidential debate for the gop presents a choice for candidates, defend donald trump or defend democracy. a preview with my sunday night panel, next. ht panel, next. ♪inspiring music♪ ♪ start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! uuuhhhh... here, i'll take that! woohoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar. enter the $10,000 powered by protein max challenge. ♪ ♪ i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ my heart failure diagnosis changed my priorities. i want time for the people i love. my heart doesn't pump enough blood... so my doctor gave me farxiga. ♪ farxiga ♪ it helps my heart do its job better. farxiga helps keep me living life... and out of the hospital for heart failure. farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections in women and men and low blood sugar. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may lead to death. a rare life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. more time with her? sounds good to me. ask your doctor for farxiga for heart failure. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪ farxiga ♪ ♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. >> in the last hour of my so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪ colleagues and i discuss the upcoming litmus test that gop candidates will face at this week's primary debate. it's very simple, will they choose to defend donald trump or will they defend our democracy? it will certainly feel that question i believe. with trump skipping out who will voters be left with on sunday night. i've got run desantis, i'd say a trump clone. or a real like version with without the charisma. he's been instructed in the leak memo to defend the ex president. you have vivek ramaswamy, plans to solve the gop problem by courting younger voters, by proposing citizens aged 18 to 24 as a civics has to be able to cast a constitutional right and vote. how about stiff candidates like mike pence, nikki haley, and tim scott, all who may sound good or appear to be good on paper. but i failed to translate well to republican voters. who better discuss all this time with my next guest, stephanie miller, comedian house of the stephanie miller show on sirius xm. and jason selvig of the good liars, jason, great to have you with us. stephanie, earlier this is -- on the social media sites that he won't be attending the debates. chris christie's calling him a coward for that. but beyond the cleared disrespect of the voters by snapping the debate process, the candidates will be on that stage. and by the way we should note have pledged to support whoever gets nominated even if it is trump. in fact i'd say the requirement to participate. that includes people like asa hutchinson and nikki haley who signed off to the pledge. help me make sense of this republican party. it doesn't add up. >> yeah, i'm here in l.a. and i'm happy to be able to join you. i was able to take a sharpie and re-redact hurricane hilary to mar-a-lago. everything is good for now. this is the second thing he's chickened out on this week. as you recall, his big press conference with irrefutable proof of election fraud was supposed to be tomorrow morning. which we all knew was bs. that he also canceled. can i just say as a comedian, i think as a traitor to the united states, i think he's committed espionage. the thing i hate most about. and he's a hack comic. i don't know if you saw him onstage, he was talking about chris christie, he pointed to a guy in the crowd and said, sir, don't call chris christie of fat paid. don't do that, i'm trying to be nice up here. he obviously, the guy obviously didn't do. that it was a way for donald trump to call chris christie -- this is a level there already at in the primary. as a fan of literature, lord of the flies, i'm happy to see a version of that war pinky wins. i think chris christie will be a clear winner to wednesday night. >> jason, candidates like desantis armed vivek ramaswamy, they can try to be mini trumps with culture war issues. how is that going to work with trump in the race, if you're republican voter wouldn't be like settling for our sea cola than instead of the real coke? >> it's hot, especially with ron desantis who this debates, -- he's taking tanking in the polls. you put a clip from that article about super pac saying, don't go after nominal trump. when donald trump has been going on after ron desantis nonstop. calmly i'm desanctimonious, it's interesting strategy to not go after the front runner. this debate is big for him than any of the other candidates. it's gonna show that he's got a backbone, he can stand up to donald trump, or will he prove everyone wrong, turn his campaign around. i do think he probably will go the way of rick perry and have -- and will probably be saying, please clap next month at a campaign event like jeb bush. i'm most interested to see what desantis does. i think the fake ramaswamy, he has been preparing for this debate on what. he said he hasn't prepared for. it >> he wants to raise the voting age to 25, people these people under 25 aren't informed enough to vote. i've been on the road at trump rallies, i've talked a 60 year olds who believe that jfk junior is alive and is currently vice president. i don't think age has anything to do with how inform you are unfortunately for him with this campaign policy decision. >> it's gonna mess up, that's really gonna mess up the primary with rfk junior on the democratic side. it's really gonna be a gross match. >> a lot of republicans whose heads are gonna explode make sense of how our of cage in years on the debate stage of a democratic side. stephanie, without trump at the debate it's very likely that ron desantis is gonna be pounced on by the other candidates. and some point he was the front runner from post trump candidates and now he seems to be imploding. let's play trump's appearing to insult some -- this is desantis appearing to insult some trump supporters. >> a movement can't about the personality of one individual. if all we are as listless vessels that are supposed to follow whatever happens to come down the pipe on truth social every morning. that's not gonna be a durable movement. >> listless vessels. does not mean desantis team is try to walk that back saying that he was taken out of context. but how damaging could this be for him going into wednesday's debate? >> i feel like >> it's gonna be the highlight of this campaign. i feel it might be. >> how about a kid eating the icy and saying, what's that there's too much sugar. >> nanny state. manny staved. >> what are elon russ market due, arrested on scheduled disassembly, that's ron desantis's campaign. i think we don't talk enough about strong flaws. how deeply we are the man's. this memo is almost like saying, try to acumen, just try to act like a human. show some emotion. don't be weird. [laughter] he has a class draw. he is nasty. he's vindictive. today does these press conferences and even that he's snapping kids behind him for wearing masks. i think in that kind of environment he's gonna get destroyed. >> there's a part of you, both of u.s. comedians that want to keep rhonda sent this in the campaign. because he's given us so much good content? >> nonstop comedy. he's a very interesting -- >> it's not worth our democracy though. >> i want to say -- >> if he ever does get in, there is news gonna stirrup, disney is gonna stir up his whole president so bad if he said nixon. >> i'm so sorry to cut this short. we've learned a time. i apologize we'll have you guys back perhaps next weekend to talk about it a bit more. greatly appreciate both of you. jason salt lake, stephanie miller, thank you. i, had were gonna change paces and we're gonna come back with some breaking news on tropical storm hilary and bring you an update on that. don't go anywhere. nywhere. ...because t-mobile helps pano ai innovate, so they can stop the spread of wildfires. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. 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