we begin this hour with all signs pointing to a fourth indictment of donald trump in georgia. two witnesses say they will appear tuesday before the fulton county grand jury. journalist george shady and former georgia lieutenant governor george duncan claude -- duncan put, quote, i look forward answering the questions around the 2021 election. republicans should never let honesty be mistaken for weakness. the fulton county georgia courthouse already on high alert, plastic and metal barricades blocking the building for traffic. bomb sniffing dogs inspecting media vehicles. trump meanwhile is proclaiming his innocence on the campaign trail. here is what he was asked about on a popular plea deal and georgia. >> any chance you take a plea deal in georgia? >> we did nothing wrong. we do not have to take a plea deal. >> yes sir, yes sir. we don't take plea deals, that is a wiseguy questions. we don't take plead eels because i did nothing wrong. >> trump's running commentary on his criminal cases are to rebuke from a d.c. judge. friday, the judge restricted how trump can handle evidence in the election interference trial. he reminded trump that he will face consequences for threatening his perceived enemies should he do so. quote, the more party makes inflammatory statements about the statements that could taint the jury pool or intimidate potential witnesses, the greater the urgency will be that we proceed to trial quickly. i will take whatever measures are necessary to safeguard the integrity of these proceedings. joining us to discuss, msnbc contributor and former watergate prosecutor, jill wine-banks. she is a co-host of the hashtag sisters in law podcast, and the author of the watergate girl. also with, us former congressman from florida, david jolly, and former hunsecker terry in 2021 presidential candidate -- they are both msnbc political analysts. jill, let certain fulton county. the news today that they've been called to testify before the grand jury next week. talk about the process, the timing, what are the final steps before they may deliver an indictment? >> and the final steps are to have all of the witnesses completed. and we are now seeing that there are some subpoenas for next week. so that means that it won't happen until at least after their testimony. but this does look like it is high-level witnesses. the lieutenant governor is going to testify on tuesday. so as early as tuesday, we could have an indictment announced and possibly unsealed in georgia. i will have to wear my peach pan when that happens. but the process is that the grand jury votes on the prepared indictment. they are shown what the laws of georgia are, and they've already heard the facts from witnesses. and they see what the facts support all the charges that are labeled as the elements of a crime, and then they vote. and that is the end of it. and that it is handed off to a judge. it's filed with the clerk. notice is given to the defendant, if there's a flight risk which i don't think donald trump is a flight risk for all the things i think of him i don't think he's going to flee. he could be arrested if he was a flight risk. otherwise, he will be notified and given a date to show up for another arraignment. >> -- >> they're going to fingerprint him. >> forgive me, jill david, there are a lot of elements of what is happening in georgia that are very specific to georgia. among them, the fact that you are going to have republicans taking the stand and testifying in this case. the fact that you have, i want to re-read that quote to you. duncan saying about republicans, republicans should never let honesty be mistaken for weakness. >> -- >> yeah, that's exactly right, this is also the grand jury that took testimony from lindsey graham and others. much like the jack smith indictment, we will learn a lot about who said what about donald trump in the fake electors scheme. this is clearly moving in the direction it does appear toward an indictment. i think, politically, it's going to set the table now for what we have always anticipated. donald trump will be entering a gop primary with four indictments. who knows if a trial could happen before the nomination is shored up. in march or happens after. this is now the field. the field is set. the table is set. if you or anybody other than donald trump, you are running against somebody with four indictments. but republicans continuing to, say yes, he's the guy that did this. the question is, will any of it resonate? will it hurt donald trump politically? we have not seen that yet. >> jill, turning to the protective order that was issued by judge chutkan in washington, d. c.. there is so much about it that is unusual. not because of the order, the nature of the protected order, rather, the nature of the person that the protective order is geared to. right? the number of guardrails that had to be put in place. what most stood out to you, as you made your way through the protective order? >> alicia, you are right. this is not unusual. in almost every single trial, there is a protective order. what is unusual here, number one, the warning that was given to donald trump and his lawyers about threatening witnesses. the prosecutor and possibly even the judge. that is unusual. i think the other thing that stands out is that she was brilliant. judge chutkan, i think did the most brilliant thing possible. which is to say, we've heard your statements, if you continue to make these outrageous statements, i am going to move the trial date up every single time you do it. and that's because she was in a very tough place in terms of if she held him in contempt, as she would in the other defendant, if she tries to hold him in custody and revoke his bail, because of his behavior, it is going to look bad politically. she knows it. if she moved the trial up, that is a brilliant way of keeping him under control. having his lawyers try to prevent him from continuing to threaten people. so, i thought she did a really clever and wonderful thing in making that statement. i hope that it will stop him from what he has been doing. i am doubting that it will. >> i don't think you're alone in that doubt. julián, the obvious question, the first that comes to mind, whether or not these reminders, these guardrails change any of trump's rhetoric. the bigger question is about the stakes here, right? if he is not able to follow that protective order, it means not just for donald trump, and not just for this case, for the testing of our democracy and our legal system. >> alicia, the stakes can be higher for our democracy. we have a former president that openly is floating the most fundamental notions of democracy. try to overturn the results of an election. has urged the supporters to defend him at any cost. has hinted sometimes more than hinted at the use of violence to achieve those means. there's also the real threat, if he gets reelected, somehow in 2024, all bets are off, in terms of our democracy. so, this is existential with respect to our democracy. as david noted, going forward, republican voters, they're going to have to make a choice. so far they have rallied around donny trump each time he has gotten in more hot water. it seems to have gotten stronger. the baggage builds up, it builds, up it builds up. the extent, they carry about winning in november of 2024. we will see if more and more of those persuadable gop voters, the folks that are not die hard maga, there still, are you know, a decent number one. let's see if they change their tune and vote for one of these candidates. >> the other big legal news this week, we had merrick garland announcing a special counsel in the hunter biden case. can you give us a sense of what happens next in the investigation? >> it's interesting. i think the only difference in his power is, one, he will issue a report at the end. it could include information that would not be admissible in a trial, it would not be an indictment. so, that is not a good thing for the system of justice. his real additional power as special counsel is that he could bring indictments in california, in washington, which apparently despite my research, failing to find exactly what that connection is, are related to some of the conduct of hunter biden. to the best of my knowledge, he purchased the gun in delaware. so, delaware would've been a fine place for any gun charges. the washington, d. c. connection, i can see because his tax returns were filed in the district of columbia. california, i don't know unless he lived there at the time in some would give him the power to return indictments beyond the jurisdiction that he had as u.s. attorney. it was limited to the state of delaware. so, that is really the only difference. and there is still a chance that we will reach an agreement on a plea. i have to point out that the charges that are being talked about are things that would never be prosecuted if his name was not hunter biden. no other person who paid back the overdue taxes would be charged. no one who didn't commit a crime with an illegal gun would be charged. he's actually being treated more harshly with the charges that he was already set a plea to. it means that there may be a third crime that was never taken off the table. it's hard to understand how either the prosecutor or the defense order left that happen and got to a stage where they were in front of a judge who properly said, i cannot accept a plea when you don't have an understanding on that part. >> to state the obvious this is not something illegal, this is political, republicans demand a special counsel for hunter biden. they are calling the appointment of one a sham. it is like they don't want to take yes for an answer. >> yes, alicia, if you get whiplash with the republican convictions against hunter, biden it's understand. but, look i don't know if any of this changes much of the republican strategy. they have always sought to use hunter biden to flirt with this idea of impeaching jill biden they will run the messaging through november even if david weiss never actually brings charges. republican messaging is locked in on this. i do think the intriguing thing that we are going to see unfold is, if you make both sides upset, it's because you have this decision just. right david weiss, why is he's made both sides upset maybe. because they got it all wrong. consider what happened, he had five years to investigate. this he has two charges, a charging raymond, the judge, says i don't think that works. so, let me reconsider. because, back he says no, i want to special counsel to reopen everything that i submit the last five years, maybe i got wrong when i put it in front of a. judge, so republicans don't like him on credibility because they think it was a sweetheart deal. democrats are probably scratching their head, saying wait, minute why do you need more time if you already had five years. open question. politically, none of this is good for joe biden. factually, none of it touches joe biden. it's not something the president needs to worry about. republicans are going to do what they're going to do. >> you just underscored the moment we find ourselves in. what is true politically is not always what is true factually and vice versa. jill and, david as, always thank you so much. julián, you are sticking with me. let's first to breaking news and hawaii. as of this hour, 80 people have died from the wildfires there. local officials in the island of maui fear that number will grow with hundreds still missing. nbc news correspondent dana griffin is on the ground tracking the latest. dana, what are you hearing there? >> alicia, it is about 1:00 in the afternoon here in maui. i have got to tell you, people are frustrated. they are desperate for services, clothing, food, water, we are outside of a shelter here in maui. the red cross has set up. there are several palates of items that are in the distance where people are coming. several people are living in side. i just spoke with a couple of girls, and their family, friends, living in lahaina. they can't leave. they are very frustrated. they tell, me they feel like tourists are being allowed in to get to the hotels, to collect belongings. they feel like the people are being put last. you can't say that's the situation for everyone. this was just the recent thing that someone came to up to us. they wanted to express. as with another couple earlier today, they barely escaped the flames. interestingly, their buildings still standing. they had an officer escort them in to get some belongings. there is no power. there is no running water. they will never be able to return to the apartment again. take a listen to what they told me earlier today. >> what is the state of your home? >> the complex, the buildings are burned and the buildings are standing. some standing. we can't get in. they downed power lines, no running water, no electricity. >> it's a very close community in lahaina. my job, the building burnt down. some people are without jobs. some lost homes. some lost everything. >> and it is expected to cost up to 5. 5 billion dollars to rebuild. the people here are resilient they are vowing to get back to the glory they once had. alicia? dana griffin for us in maui, dana thank you. coming up we are going to speak with a survivor who describes the desperation to save the family from the flames. and next, kamala harris takes center stage as the biden administration takes this opportunity to make the case for the vp. for the vp. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key 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biden's reelection campaign. cnbc reports, quote, over the coming year, the vice president will be strategically deployed to shore up support for biden among constituencies that make up the core of the biden harris coalition. including young people, people of color, and women. last year biden campaign manager julia chavez-rodriguez, said harris will burn the issues these voters care about friends under the campaign, proving the fight for reproductive freedoms. back with me to discuss, msnbc political analyst, julián castro. secretary castro, i am struck by the fact that you've seen polling, you've seen what i would call alarmist headlines about the extent to which some of what was once considered the obama coalition, young people, people of color, unmarried women, their level of support for the president isn't where the president and democrats would want it to be. i think those numbers are challenging in a number ways, including the fact those obama coalition numbers were extraordinarily. high they might have been a high-water mark. if the desire on the part of the biden campaign of the democrats is to close the gap, they don't have a better messenger than kamala harris. >> i think that's right, alicia, let's begin with the fact that in kamala harris, you have someone who is very talented, dynamic, energetic, i have seen that up close during the 2020 campaign. she connects with this whole group of voters, whether it's young people, people of color, women, that joe biden, right now, at, least, he's lagging with. she compliments joe biden very well in 2024. maybe even better than in 2020. the campaign is doing the smart thing to get her out there front and center. she has been on the road a lot lately, delivering an effective message whether it's, as we saw in that clip on voting rights or on reproductive freedom which will probably continue to be the issue that helps power democrats to victory in november of 2024. so she's going to be this indispensable part of the 2024 campaign. >> -- i think after the midterms, saying to the extent to which motivated voters, there were a lot of pundits who said, well, that's great for the midterms. the fire is not going to stay there going into 2024. what we've seen, is that actually has not proven true. there are more americans who live with the consequences of the overturn of roe v. wade. the more real it becomes to them in their life, the more it becomes part of this broader sense of republicans being simply too extreme to govern. some of what the biden campaign is watching has them i wonder if you think that is pie in the sky optimism. if you think there is actually a possibility that there are states that are now in play that weren't a few months ago. >> well, what we saw the other day in ohio with the constitutional amendment that makes me think that there is still a lot of power behind this issue. it makes sense. we are talking about a fundamental freedom that had been in effect for 50 years. stripped by this conservative supreme court. republicans are not listening to the people. they are not backing down on this. so, i think it can have the effect of opening up political opportunities, whether it's in a place like north carolina, ohio, other states. where four years ago, we wouldn't have expected that. i also think that it power democrats to victory in the midterms in 2022. that was one of the most if not the most important factors. i remember in the 2004 campaign that in a negative way the bush campaign had the question of marriage rights for the lgbtq community put on the places like ohio. it would help them drive up their. base i can tell, you anywhere where the question of reproductive freedom is on the, ballot any state or that is the case, november of 2024, i think that's going to be a big help to democrats. >> i want to talk about the humanitarian crisis at the border. details still limited. we have learned that a three -year-old migrants who is being bus from texas died on the way to chicago. the ap reports, quote, texas has bussed more than 30,000 migrants to democratic -controlled cities across the u.s. since last. year it's part of a republican governor greg abbott strolling missing on the border called operation lone star. the operation has come under scrutiny in recent months over additional hard-line measures. the governor had authorized the name of deterring migrants from crossing from mexico. i mean, secretary, the cruelty has always been the point. we known for the time now of safety has been on the board. we're not talking about a three year old child. >> alicia, this is another very sad consequence of a governor abbott's cruelty, of his absolute determination to use migrants who are seeking a better life in the united states. who are seeking asylum as political pawns. and to score points with the base. to fundraise off of this, this is the worst kind of politics and policy that you can imagine. add to that what he's doing the out there with razor wire and buoys in the middle of the rio grande, people who have turned up dead and maimed there. how many people have to die, how many kids have to die before people that, yes, they want more border security, they say this is not who we are. this isn't who we should be. this is so inhumane that we have to reject that. i hope that's going to happen. it's already happened among democrats and a lot of independents. i hope it's going to happen among republicans. maybe folks like greg abbott and ron desantis will get the message and stop this. if they're not stopped first by the department of justice. >> secretary julián castro, as, always thank you so much for being with us. coming up, unimaginable tragedy in maui, a survivor of the wildfire is with us next. plus, the parkland shootings david -- wants a new generation of leaders. he just launched a mission to make it happen. treat it anytime, anywhere without worrying where you are or if it's too late. do not take with 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"my skin is so much more moisturized." see the difference with olay. >> it is undeniable that young americans can change elections and impact our politics. thank the 2020 presidential election. researchers at tufts university credited an increase in young voter turnout for making key differences in major battleground states. they did it again in the 2022 midterms. the second highest youth voter turnout and nearly 30. years young voters also helped recall major social movements from social media to mainstream media. the women's march, black lives matter, march for our lives, worldwide movements to address climate change. what still missing, well, that is making sure they have a seat at the table. and that's where our next guest comes in. with me now, david hart, cofounder of march for our lives. this, week he launched leaders we deserve, a political action committee he found two for congressional and state legislative seats. largely in red states. david, tell me more about this theory of change. >> really, what we're trying to do here, take the upswell of support that young people have to not just stand back, really to take action. during donald trump's presidency, i think he showed us the cost of political action. our generation, you, know all that we know the political system is broken, we know it's not unfixable. and that's why we've done the work. the march for our lives is the largest protest since the vietnam war. in 2018, after that march, we had one of the highest voter turnouts in american history. what we're trying to do right here, it make it so we can take these young people that understand the anxiety what's like going through a school shooter drill. bringing them into office, also young people who understand the anxiety of not knowing if they are going to have uninhabitable planted for their children and the people during the office not just for the congressional, level especially at the state. level to lead the fight against far-right leaders like ron desantis. ensure young people that our democracy is not broken. they're young people who understand what you're going through. justin johns. maxwell frost, they're leading the fight. >> when you look at your time and your advocacy doing gun reform, with the lessons you're taking from that, what are -- >> the biggest lesson we're taking away from that is the power of hope. i think the two most powerful things that anybody can have on their side and politics is hope and time. our generation knows that we can make. change we've seen it in our time. many people have said, you will never defeat donald. trump young people never. turnout we turned out at the highest rate in american history as a voting generation to help change the presidency. we defeated a puppet that many people said could never be defeated. young people went out there and played a critical role in defeating. them i think that's what we're trying to take. here to inspire more. hope that's why people like justin johns, maxwell frost, jamie raskin, general kasky, so many others are on our advisory board for this organization. to show young people are good people on the inside. i want to make it clear, this is not about being against older people in politics or anything like, that this is about creating an intergenerational coalition with the understanding that we've always had the leaders that we've deserved. we have just have had far too few of them there used to entry for many of them for far too high. >> speaking to those barriers to entry, congress nashville frost, the first gen z-er in congress, he's been really open about the cost of running for office. his struggle to pay for an apartment in washington, d. c.. he said on twitter last, year quote, this is not meant for people who don't already have money. which, is, of course, a lot of young people, so how does a group like yours address that struggle? especially when you sit down and you're doing candidate recruitment. some may have faith in themselves, they may have a desire to do it. they'd be like, dude, i don't know him going to pay my bill. >> that's part of what we want to help them work through. understand that, you know, part of the reason why our state legislature, especially, are so vastly on representative of our actual population, it's because in many states, they are not paid, frankly, a living salary, that invites corruption. it makes it so only people who already have money can run for office a lot of the time. in some states, it's less than $20,000 a year. some of the state legislator paid that. some places it's lower than that. that is part of what we're doing. i worked with the maxwell campaign, maxwell was, prior to being in congress, a march for our lives organizer. he called me up and asked to help, i said, i always say no to politicians. maxwell, i don't see you as a politician. i see you as a friend. so, i'm going to go. all in, i helped raise 380,000. dollars that help, you, know propel the campaign along, along with all the work that maxwell and so many others were doing on the campaign to get that early credibility. we saw with that, a, how much money it takes to run for congress, b, the power that the money could bring to a state legislature like florida. to show the young people that we passed progressive ballot measures. a 15 dollar minimum wage, just -- convicted. we continuously pass measures, we don't have that. if people want to help create this change, they can go to leaders we deserve. com and donate five or ten member members a month. we have to get to work for election season. >> david hogg, as always, thank you so much for your time. coming, up tragedy and devastation. now a survivor who took this video joins us next. erizon rope you in with phone offers, then bind you to a 3-year device contract. break free with t-mobile! introducing go 5g plus, the plan that always gives new and existing customers the same great device deals, and you're upgrade ready in two years versus three. rsv is in for a surprise. meet arexvy. 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>> i love my community. they have raised my girls with me. >> the kirkman's have closure but far too many are haunted by the silence. tonight, there is no official number for the missing. some fear it may be as high as 1000, a stream of police cry out on social media. mothers, fathers, children, desperate to find loved ones. >> my mind is, do i just go over there and find my dad? no one knows. >> from california, kimberly is waiting for any word about her father. 79 year old shadow has not been seen since the flames overtook his neighborhood. >> four days go by, those numbers are going to go up. if he did get evacuated, where did he get evacuated to? there is no information regarding that. >> jason -- says his mother is also unaccounted for. >> my plan is to get on a plane, fly out there, and find out what's going on. >> yvonne has not responded to the urgent calls from loved ones. a maui resident of 20 years, she lived in the heart of lahaina. >> what worries you, internet access, something else? >> many believe the death toll is far greater than the number confirmed. residents continue to tell us there are bodies in homes, cars, and in the water. >> survivors tell us when the fire first hit lahaina, there wasn't warning or much time to evacuate. imagine being home hearing screams -- looking outside and seeing a wall of flames. that's what neighbors say happened right here. >> we are all a family. we don't even lock doors in the neighborhood. >> there is nothing here for us anymore. it's devastating. >> tonight, so much destruction, so much uncertainty in this paradise now turned to ash. >> that was nbc's miguel almaguer, reporting, -- and now a resident and witness, emerson, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. i know this is a very difficult time for you. i want to know how you, are how your family. is what is it that you want us to know? maxlength=32> i realize how blessed i am. my family is okay, i'm, fine we live quite a bit away from the fire. i happen to be trapped in the fire. right before it. i just want to get home. i heard stories that many places on the island, kula, kihei, near my house, they were on fire. the first thing in the, morning i took my bike, i borrowed a bike. i got through town. so, i got about halfway through, i thought, people need to see this, people need to see how by this really is. i didn't show everything in there for the respects of those that didn't make it. you need to see, those people need to be able to get their head around it, that's relief efforts underway as fast as possible. that's all i was thinking about. video as much as i can, get home to my family as fast as possible. the more i see the more horrific it gets every day. it's just heartbreaking. >> after having seen the aerial footage, it gives you a sense more broadly of what is happening on the island. watching the footage you took, which our viewers are watching it right now, breaking through the streets, you really get a sense of the devastation. the big question, of, course, do you feel that the authorities gave your community enough warning? >> i can't speak to that, i was not on the ground. i heard this before, i -- from what i am hearing, that fire crossed within minutes. it would be hard pressed to give the warning. i didn't hear any sirens go off. it would've been really nice. we have emergency systems in place. the sirens would have been -- again, i can't speak to that. i don't know what happened. i am at a loss. people have lost everything. it's not just, i mean, it's everything, family, they lost their loved ones. it is something i want to point out here today. don't give up hope. i was up north. i had no cell signal. i had nothing. i couldn't talk to my family. there is no way to communicate. there's a fine possibility that many of the people that are displaced by this fire are up north of there. they have no power. they have no electricity. i've been trying to get in there for the last couple of days. i've been blocked bringing supplies. i know a lot of people are very frustrated by. that we can't get through to loved ones. i even spoke to a friend of mine, they published something on instagram. he's trying to bring in shiploads of insulin for people. the government is blocking him from getting supplies to these people. we need to find a way to communicate better to be able to get supplies to these people. get them the things that they need. the very basics for humanity. basics for life. that's it. get communication opened up so people could find their loved ones. >> emerson, i have about a minute left. you've been on the ground, you understand the urgency of this. the fact that there is so much attention being paid to what is happening in maui. a lot of people who want to help. i want to know, what do you want people who aren't from hawaii to know about maui, to know about your community? >> that is a tough question. i could spend hours on it. most people have been here. it's a tourist attraction. they have those weddings that happened here. people that come here for just 20 minutes away from their daily grind and visit paradise. paradise isn't just what you see. it's also families that are working. here it's families that are surviving here that have generations and generations. this was their home. remember, this is a home to people. it's not just a vacation destination. it's where people lived and survived. be courteous, be respectful, do what you can to donate and help the people of lahaina, thank you so much for that opportunity. i started a gofundme myself that was pray for lahaina maui, there are so many organizations out here that are giving. what i'd like to see people do, unite and get structure, get some sort of a unity between these organizations. otherwise they're disjointed. >> emerson timmins, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. i appreciate you. >> back after a quick break. businesses need 5g solutions today. that's why they choose t-mobile for business. mlb partners with t-mobile to not only enhance the fan experience, but to advance how the game is played. aaa relies on t-mobile's network to stay connected nationwide, so they can help get their members back on the road. and we're helping pano ai innovate, to stop the spread of wildfires. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. mr. clean magic eraser powers through tough messes. so it makes it look like i spent hours cleaning! and you know i didn't. it makes my running shoe look like new. it's amazing! wow, it makes it look like... i don't have kids at all. it's so good, it makes it look like i have magical powers! with 80% less scrubbing, mr. clean magic eraser makes cleaning easy. also available in sheets! let innovation refunds help with your erc tax refund so you can improve your business however you see fit. rosie used part of her refund to build an outdoor patio. clink! dr. marshall used part of his refund to give his practice a facelift. emily used part of her refund to buy... i run a wax museum. let innovation refunds help you get started on your erc tax refund. stop waiting. go to innovationrefunds.com you really got the brows. what causes a curve down there? 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palpable longing for both communal delight and catharsis. joining me, now a trail blazer in her own right, retired colonel aileen collins, the author of through the glass ceiling to the stars. the story of the first american woman to command a space mission. thank you so much for being with us. this is the summer of many firsts for you. a pioneer yourself. i wonder how this, embrace this centering of women and girls, what it means to you. >> one of the reasons i wrote the book, to get the message out on the kind of things that young women can do. the excitement that i had in my career, i was in the air force i was a test pilot. i was an astronaut. i came in back in the day when women were doing this for the first time. i remember as a young girl the choices i had. they were great career choices. they were limited. teacher, nurse, singer, actress. they were very limited choices. women didn't traditionally become doctors and lawyers. certainly not astronauts. certainly not military pilots. that all started changing in the late 70s. i was lucky enough to be one of those women. the first in pilot training for women in the air force. it was also new for women in the navy. the first class of women astronauts was 1970. i came in shortly after that. , so i feel very fortunate to hit a time in the history of our country where i was able to do these kinds of exciting jobs. so, the message that i put out in the book and the other appearance that i do, to tell young women there are so many exciting things you can do and life. you don't always get exposed to things. what i did with the space program and flying for the air force very exciting jobs it took me around the world it took me off the world in planet into space i think the other message is math and science technology jobs that are traditionally, we think we went they went to a man, that's changing. more and more women are choosing careers in engineering and science and math and technology. now we have artificial intelligence, many jobs are coming up in that area. young women, i tell them, you are smart, don't put yourself down. don't listen to these comments you here, girls can't do math. i still hear that today. i totally reject it. girls can do maths. sometimes different people learn at different rates. if you don't give up, you keep trying, you -- something will click along the way. you will find, yes, you can do these things that you think might be difficult. so, that is the message that i have put out. it's great to see that young women have something more opportunities today than my parents did, that my parents, my grandparents, opportunities open up to me for the first time. >> there is a monologue that is delivered by the character that america ferreira portrays in the movie barbie that seems to be very resonant with people about this push and pull that women experience, particularly women in leadership, to be enough, but also not to be too much, i wonder for, you you understand the perils of being the first. i think we looked at the success that we've seen this summer. beyoncé, taylor swift, the barbie film. we say to ourselves as well, clearly that should send the message that there is a market for this, people want more, sometimes the success, the success of a first doesn't always clear the way, as we would imagine. >> one of the messages i have four young, women going into a leadership role, frankly we are all leaders and whatever you do. be original. be creative. be yourself. do the kinds of things that you know your talented. while you're young, you have to explore that in different areas. go out, take a risk, try different careers, try different courses in school. get a jobs in different places that you think might be challenging for you. use your creativity. to be a leader, you also have to be in touch with the people that you work with. it is different for women. i will admit. i think one of my leadership techniques was to really be a good listener. i had a lot of men that worked with me in the air force and at nasa. i was the ultimate decision maker. people knew that. i didn't have to tell them that. it was important for me to ask people their opinions, what do you think about, this maybe already knew what i wanted to. do i wanted -- my people to know that i was interested in what they had to say. so, be a good listener. listen with a humble attitude. in the end, you are the decision-maker. i don't think women need to be intimidated by working with guys. you have a mission that you are working around. everybody wants the mission to succeed. you work as a team. i think things will fall together. >> retired colonel aileen, collins thank you so much for your time, you can read more about her life story in her book through the glass ceiling to the stars. more american voices after a break. at the top of the hour on ayman, a harvard constitutional law professor wants to drive on the memo that cited his work. sought to overturn the 2020 election. why he calls it a gross misrepresentation. that is tonight at 8 pm eastern only on msnbc. to 50 years with my best friend. 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