is it alabama or is it florida? a new report is raising questions. our nbc reporters are following all of the latest developments and we begin with steve patterson who has the latest on the ground in hawaii. steve, what's the latest from there. i know there's still just so many people who can't get home or who don't have a home to go to. >> reporter: or who are missing family members, chris. the death toll has increased overnight. it is now 55. everything we have heard from the mayor to the governor to emergency officials on this island and looking at the devastation and looking at the damage, that toll will almost certainly increase over the next few hours and days. the governor has just told some families that they may be able to go back to their homes soon, but you're right, in a lot of cases, they will find nothing there. lahaina has been almost entirely reduced to rubble. thousands of structures raised. we're expecting millions, if not over a billion dollars in damage. federal help is on the way. there are still active fire fights, though, going on on this island. six major fires still burning. a lot of those, the majority of those have been mostly contained and now the major operation is as mentioned to get into that town, to try to connect missing to family members, to try to clear as much wreckage as possible so they can continue search efforts. in a lot of cases these are cadaver dogs looking for more bodies. the mayor said while they have a good count on how many have died, again, based on the damage and based on the fact that they have not done a major search operation on the interior of a lot of the structures you're seeing on television right now. that toll is expected to increase as they start going inside these buildings. it is heartbreaking work. it is terrible work in a lot of cases, but there is a spirit of aloha here. i'm at one of six major shelters on the island of maui. this is maui high school behind me. we have seen donations all day. we have seen blankets, food, water, people just doing everything they can to help out. and speaking to people here who left with the shirts off their back, who left without anything, without knowing if their pets are going to be okay, if some of their family members are going to be okay. they're in good spirits, doing everything they can to keep spirits up and to try to help each other get through this. it is so tough. 15,000 people, mostly tourists left the island last night. that number is expected to be nearly as high tonight again, chris. >> steve patterson, thank you for that. let's go to washington now and the new developments in trump's election interference case. garrett haake is there. garrett, what did we learn about how evidence is going to be handled in this case? >> well, chris, we're still waiting for the final approved protective order from the judge, which we expect to come down sometime this afternoon. both sides got a little bit of what they want here. the government is going to have to designate some of the more than a million pages of discovery that they hand over to trump's defense team as sensitive. only that material will be things that he's not allowed to discuss publicly. the vast majority of this evidence is likely the kind of thing that it would be able to continue to talk about publicly. we're also hearing that the former president will be able to review this material. he doesn't have to have his attorney present with him, although he can't copy it. he can't take pictures of it with his phone. that's the good news if you're donald trump's defense attorneys. the bad news from their perspective is the judge made very clear in this hearing she's not going to take any political considerations into her thinking when it comes to how she handles this case. she made clear several times the fact that the defendant is running for political office is not going to factor into her decisions, and while she was really talking about it in terms of how this evidence is reviewed or how it's discussed on the campaign trail, it's important to keep in mind that may also be a major factor when it comes to scheduling this trial. we don't yet know when it's going to start. the government wants it to start in early january. we're waiting on a response from donald trump's defense team about a date that they would find appropriate. these comments from the judge indicate to me that she's not going to listen to, you know, complaints about when super tuesday or republican convention might be and take those into account when she sets the trial date. now we wait for the judge's final order on the protective order part of this, talking about the evidence part of it, and we have a little bit longer to wait on the trial date. that likely won't be decided until the hearing at the end of this month, chris. >> garrett haake, thank you for that. also breaking this hour, the special counsel that's been appointed in the hunter biden case. i want to go to nbc's chief white house correspondent peter alexander. tell us about what attorney general merrick garland had to say a short time ago, and did the folks in the white house where you are get a heads-up? >> reporter: well, to answer your second question first, we're told no one at the white house got advanced notice about the announcement coming from the attorney general merrick garland today. we'll play some of his remarks just a short time ago for you, but this is a significant moment in this investigation into the president's son, hunter biden. today, the attorney general elevating the prosecutor investigating hunter biden to give him special counsel authority here, which means he can continue to pursue these investigations and only moments after that announcement was made by the attorney general, we heard from prosecutors in this case basically saying they had reached an impasse in their investigation or their, to have a plea agreement with hunter biden's team over tax and gun charges saying in fact that investigation, that case did appear that it would be going to trial. here's part of what the attorney general said when he spoke only a short time ago. listen. >> on tuesday of this week, mr. weiss advised me that in his judgment, his investigation had reached a stage at which he should continue his work as a special counsel. and he asked to be so appointed. upon considering his request, as well as the extraordinary circumstances relating to this matter, i have concluded that it is in the public interest to appoint him as special counsel. >> reporter: among other things, it's relevant and significant because it means that the attorney here now special counsel, david weiss, can pursue this case for a possible trial in the jurisdiction that he sees fit, not just delaware, where he serves as u.s. attorney. garland referring to weiss, you see there, as a career prosecutor and why it's notable as it demonstrates, again, in the words of the attorney general, the sort of independence of his agency, and also the need to have accountability on any matter, no matter who the defendant may be, in this case, the son of the president. democrats and the president have been frustrated with merrick garland over the course of his time serving in this office. they have said privately that they have had frustrations about how slow he was to pursue any possible charges against the former president for his efforts to subvert democracy in 2020, and separately for the appointment of a different special counsel, robert hur, who's investigating president biden's own handling of classified documents, chris. >> peter alexander, thank you. alabama senator tommy tuberville is denying a new report that says he doesn't actually seem to live in the state that he represents. for more on this, let's bring in senior national political reporter, sahil kapur, get us up to speed on this. >> reporter: new reporting by "the washington post" raises serious questions about whether alabama senator tommy tuberville actually lives in the state of alabama. now, let's start with the fact that tuberville doesn't deny that he is new to the state, his main connection is that he coached football at auburn for about a decade ending in 2008. in the year 2017 he said publicly that he had retired to florida. in 2018, local reports said he had voted in florida, and then in 2020, he got elected senator from alabama after listing a residence in that state which has fairly lax requirements for that job. "the washington post" reports that in the last couple of months, tuberville has sold off what's left of his properties in alabama and bought a new condo in florida where he seems to spend a lot of his time. that includes a $3 million home in santa rosa beach in the florida panhandle. he recently bought property, the post reports, in florida during the fourth of july recess, and this part of the post report stood out to me. it said, quote, tuberville's frequent visits as a senator can be gleaned through expenditure reports filed with the fec by various campaign organizations and pacs. these are disbursements through his political operation that are paid for by that. it continues, quote, they show since tuberville became a senator there have been almost monthly expenditures for travel and food in santa rosa beach or another florida town, panama city beach, which is about 50 miles away. now, tuberville's campaign issued a statement not exactly taking issue or contesting the fact in the story, but they said it's nothing new. yes, he has sold property in alabama. they call his florida property that he's had for a couple of decades, a vacation home. this is the statement from his spokesperson steven stafford, coach, coach lives in auburn. he has a vacation home in the panhandle. i'm sure lots of senators have vacation homes, unquote. chris. >> sahil kapur, thank you so much. one thousand people on the island of maui still unaccounted for as wildfires wipe out homes and nearly all methods of communication. i'll talk to a local resident who watched her home burn down and then hiked a mountain just so she could tell her family she was safe. we're back in 60 seconds. 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where are you staying? are all of your family and friends okay? >> thank you for having me, and having this opportunity to speak on this. i'm doing much better now. we're now three, four days after the 8th. as of yesterday afternoon, all of my family was finally fully evacuated to a safe area and accounted for. it's devastating. we're all shook to our core. we didn't lose just our home. we lost our community, our entire town, generations of our household has grown up in. >> i can't imagine trying to figure out where your friends are, is everybody okay, what have these last days been like? >> okay. so on the 8th, shortly after the fires broke out, i would say they broke out about 4:00 p.m. by 6:00 p.m., there was absolutely no phone communications. it wasn't even until the next day that i was able to drive up to the highest point in kaanapali and then walk up the hillside at the kaanapali farms to get word out to my friends and family and, you know, people of the media from maui to let them know what was really going on. because it was absolutely devastating. the entire town was burnt to the ground. the town of lahaina, everything north kaanapali was in tact, and that's where we were able to seek shelter for the night. but as it stands today, my entire household is displaced, you know, there's no news whether we will have jobs. we were given no notice. we had to leave with nothing. i was able to grab my computer and some important papers. but everything of our entire lives has been burnt down to the ground, and we're just one family. there's hundreds of families in the same situation, so i just -- i wanted to have this opportunity to have a larger platform to bring attention to this situation so that we can get the necessary funding federally, internationally help through donations and i also just want to acknowledge the efforts of our government, the maui fire department, police station and all the local individuals on the ground making it happen, delivering gas, because that was the biggest issue, people couldn't evacuate because there was no gas. when the electricity goes out, all the stores close, all the gas stations close, power lines were falling on top of the gas stations. so i just want to acknowledge their efforts and it's happening. it's a slow crawl. we're getting word of friends and family who are unaccounted for. i have one friend who went back to find her family and found them charred in their vehicle. so i have other friend who were, you know, there didn't seem to be any evacuation or alarm, but as i know now, the maui police department was going door to door, knocking on doors, getting people out as soon as they could. and people were -- the infrastructure of the city is -- was a big problem. people were not able to escape. it's one way in, one way out. people were on foot running faster than the cars. people were being grabbed, thrown into the river, thrown into the harbor to escape the flames. i'm so fortunate that i was able to evacuate at the site of the intense black smoke that was fast approaching our home. >> if you could summarize what you need right now, what the people who are around you need right now, you've acknowledged that the government is working very very hard, and just being here and looking at the pictures, the extent of the logistical challenges is beyond belief. but what do you need? what can be done to help at least in the short-term? >> so our community is amazing. anybody that's able to leave lahaina and west area who is in central maui is getting quite a bit of help, but there are still people who are unaccounted for and who are trapped. locals are, you know, i say funding for locals to their go fund mes, to their venmos is important. i know that federal is doing it, but the people on the ground need immediate relief and finances to help their families and get gas to them, supplies. we're all displaced. we're all in, you know, we're three families in one household, so we're going to need immediate solutions for shelter. a lot of us, you know, are displaced. we don't have work, we don't have employment, so, you know, funding is probably the best solution. >> la phena davis, i don't know how you're able to function. the strength of the community there has really been extraordinary, maybe you can come back on monday or tuesday if it's possible. we would love to hear how you're doing and check in with you. thank you so much for taking the time, and aloha. >> thank you. still ahead, with the president's son under investigation by a special counsel, how could it impact his run for reelection? 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-i'm ready! alright. xfinity rewards creates experiences big and small, and once-in-a-lifetime. updating our breaking news, attorney general merrick garland appoint ago special counsel to investigate the president's son, hunter biden. garland naming trump appointed u.s. attorney david weiss and the reaction, pouring in from capitol hill. senator lindsey graham weighing in in just the last hour on fox news. >> this is a political decision, not a legal decision. they're trying to put out a fire and they just poured gasoline on it. >> i want to bring in former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst, barbara mcquade. msnbc political analyst, and white house press secretary under president obama robert gibbs, also with us, msnbc political analyst and former aide to speakers paul ryan and john boehner, brendan buck. it's great to have all of you here. barbara, we all know weiss had been looking into hunter biden, but as special counsel, how does that change the game and does it surprise you at all given the fact that he was part of this plea deal that fell through that he would be the one that is not a special counsel. >> it doesn't surprise me that he would get the nod, but it does surprise me that he has asked for special counsel status. i think when they had the plea deal that didn't go through, it seemed that they were resolving the case. although, david weiss has always said that the investigation is ongoing. and so the timing of it seems a little odd to me, but merrick garland, true to his word has always said that david weiss has sole authority to decide the case and he asked for special counsel status, which means he can pursue charges in other districts beyond delaware. >> fair to say, maybe a big understatement, this is a bad day for hunter biden. >> yes, i think so. it suggests that certainly the tax charges and the gun charges is not going to be the end of it, that david weiss is -- it doesn't mean he's definitely going to file charges. it means he wants to use a grand jury in some district, other than delaware, and so it's difficult to speculate as to what those additional crimes might be. but they seem certainly to exceed the scope of what he had planned to plead guilty to just a few weeks ago. >> so this obviously, brendan, will no doubt feed into what has been a constant drum beat from republicans about hunter biden, sort of the whataboutism when anything is raised about former president trump, what about hunter biden? realistically how big of an impact could this special appointment counsel have politically? >> very significant, especially if it goes to trial. i have no idea where that will land, but republicans very clearly are trying to muddy the waters on what's going on with former president trump. a basic rule of politics, you try to take your opponents' strength and turn them into weaknesses and neutralize your own weaknesses. donald trump is going to find himself in a courtroom soon, and if they can make the point that the bidens are just as bad in some way, i think that could be somewhat significant to a lot of voters. it tends to blend together. look, it should not surprise anybody that they're not satisfied by the special counsel, and i think there are some really real questions to ask. smart people like barbara can't quite figure out why they're doing this now or what has changed, i think those are legitimate questions that republicans are going to continue to ask, and as long as they can continue to press this and say there's something going on here, we don't know what it is, they'll take that every day. >> so robert, 2024 republican candidates and frankly a lot of republicans on the hill have already been running with this. take a listen. >> you see this stuff with hunter biden, and it's like, if he were republican, he would be in jail by now. >> i don't trust it. i don't think the american people trust it. i don't think that the american people trust the department of justice or anything this is going to do. i think this was meant to be a distraction. it's not a distraction. i think the bidens are on a sinking ship. >> i heard news of the appointment of the special counsel in the matter involving president biden's son, hunter. to be honest with you, i can't relate to what his son was doing when he was vice president, but when i was vice president, my son was flying an f-35 for the marine corps, defending this country. >> obviously, robert, the president is dealing with this on a personal level but on a political level, does his team need to be worried about how this might land? >> you know, chris, any political candidate wants to control the message and reelection campaign absolutely wants to dictate the message. when it comes to this, they're not going to have the level of control, and certainly not the level of control they hoped to have with a plea agreement that's collapsed. you're looking at the possibility of a trial over the course of the next year or so. and there's a lot of just unknowns that get forced into this, and political campaigns and campaign strategists hate unknowns, and i think you look at what republicans are doing there now. they're trying to, one, figure out how to delegitimatize the department of justice, but as brendan said, they're trying to begin to equate all of this stuff with what former president donald trump has done, in order to sort of basically say everybody's got mud on their suit here, and so i think you'll see a lot more of this going on. but not an ideal day by my stretch of the imagination for the white house. >> and brendan, house speaker kevin mccarthy has been facing pressure for an impeachment inquiry into president biden, and it's amped up. do you think it increases the likelihood that that's going to happen, and i'm not just talking about them looking into the possibility of it, but actually going forward with potentially impeachment. >> it might. it also may delay this a little bit. i think they might want to see where this is going, and perhaps not get ahead of it. i mean, look, the hard thing for democrats, for the white house, whether or not anything illegal happened, we'll have to see. hunter biden very clearly was engaged in some scummy stuff, in terms of trading on his father's name, stuff that, you know, joe biden may have no connection to, but if you can drum that stuff up and just make the point that it is a biden family thing, it's going to look really bad. republicans don't need to see that connection. they have been making the point to their voters so long that this is a biden family issue that their voters are going to demand it eventually. whether or not you find that connection to joe biden, i don't think they found the connection to joe biden and maybe never will. you create your own reality among your own voters, and eventually they're going to demand you do something about it. i do expect at some point kevin mccarthy is going to have to give in. >> robert, obviously we know you worked for president obama in the white house as his press secretary, but can i just ask you about like the overall thought you have when i look at any presidential campaign. it's complicated, you don't know what's going to happen. something surprises you. real world stories come up, controversies real or imagined come up. this is, everybody just the logistics of it, boggle the mind, and now added to everything that's going on with donald trump, you have this potentially with hunter biden, we don't know what's going to come of it. what does the landscape look like for 2024? >> well, it looks different than it did a few hours ago. no doubt, and i think, you know, you'll have a lot of time will be spend over the next few days, trying to figure out and map out what they think is going to happen. look, that's the one thing that that's unique about politics and political campaigns is just when you think you've got everything figured out, the news intervenes, world events intervene, and the campaign that wins will be the campaign that navigates these bumps and these challenges better than the others. >> yeah, so you've got the legal investigation, the one that was just announced today, barbara, but on the other hand, you have obviously a parallel investigation that republicans want. one republican congressman has suggested, contrary to a lot of other gop folks, that actually they might not have the goods in their house case, and i want to play exactly what he said. >> we've never claimed that we have direct money going to the president, but many members of his family have received money from foreign governments, and this is something that is very important for the american people to know. we are going to continue this investigation. i believe impeachment inquiry would give us more tools to get the job done. >> so he seems to suggest, barbara, they're still looking for something. the justice department, previously offered to make weiss available before the house judiciary committee for a public hearing after the august break, but what are the chances, because you know how these investigations work. you know how doj works. what are the chances that impeachment process would find something that any kind of legitimate legal inquiry wouldn't. >> it's hard to imagine that congressional investigators could find something that justice department investigators could no, in light of the fact that justice department investigators have more tools at their disposal. the other thing about a justice department investigation is you can't go on a fishing expedition, you have to have predication, and that is some factual basis to believe that a crime has been committed. it's not enough to say that hunter biden received payments from foreign nationals. let's see whether his father did as well. he would need some factual predication to suggest that was the case. i don't see a doj investigation at this stage based on what we know in the public domain, reaching joe biden, and the same with regards to a congressional inquiry. there's no fact in the public domain to suggest there is any there. >> barbara mcquade, brendan buck, thank you both. robert you're going to stick with me. coming up, donald trump heads back to the iowa state fair eight years after he first swept in on a helicopter. but how do voters in that critical caucus state feel about the former president. my next guest says the answer may spell trouble for republicans. but first we want to tell you about a tragic milestone, suicides in the united states hit an all time high last year. according to the cdc, 49,449 people took their own lives in 2022. that is up 2.6% since 2021. and let this sink in, the associated press notes available data suggests suicides are more common in the u.s. than at any time since the dawn of world war ii. for all of you watching, please know there is always help there for you or your loved ones. if you feel alone, please know you are not. help is available 24/7 through the suicide and crisis lifeline. you can just call or text 988. we'll be right back. trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. 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>> well, it's different because he's a former president. as a former president running with the sort of support he appears to have right now, if he loses, i think it would be devastating. just showed exactly what i'm talking about, those look like ghost voters to me. in 2016, as you mentioned, people were afraid to say publicly that they were for trump. they were called trump silent voters. i think this time they are ghost voters, voters who appear to be for trump because it's very unpopular to say you're not for trump. he's the tribal chief, he's under attack, but the reality is these people understand, first of all, iowa plays very close attention, and they make their minds up very lately, and many of them, as dasha pointed out are undecided right now. it could appear like trump is winning this thing, literally until the last week, day and last hours, and then it could collapse, and the reason it will is because the kryptonite for trump is that he is a loser. he lost the '20 election, not just the reelection for presidency, but the senate and the house for the first time in almost a hundred years, since grover cleveland did the same thing almost a century ago, and the fact is that he's, with the additional legal weight that's on him, between now and election day is not going to get any better, and i think that the polls for the general election, not the primary, are increasingly going to show that donald trump would not be the best standard bearer for the republicans to beat joe biden. >> so i read your article, and all the way along, i'm going, oh, okay, i get it, i get it, i get it, and the journalist in me kicked in, and i said based on what? based on what do you think that so many people, you mentioned the poll, but donald trump has had this unbelievable knack of bringing people back around, of consolidating his support. now, i'm not talking here about the general. that's a whole different conversation. but what do you think really at the heart of this makes you really believe in this ghost voter. >> i think at the heart of it that most voters, especially iowa voters are smart and strategic. just in the sense that they're not just going to vote for somebody that they like. they're going to vote for somebody they think can win, somebody they think can beat joe biden. if this guy is under a fourth indictment, it's not going to get much better, it's certainly going to get worse on the legal front, we know that, and potentially much worse, and i think that the general election polls which show a heads up race right now are only going to get worse, and as that happens, i think those iowa voters will look at it and say, listen, i like the guy, i like what he did before, he's kind of the, you know, he's our guy, but he's not going to be the best guy to go up against joe biden, and again, because they're iowa voters, they pay really close attention, and they're not just going to vote for what they like. they're going to vote for what they think is best for the party and the country. >> it is a great read. thank you so much for coming on the show. appreciate it. two big new indications that senator joe manchin may be ready to run away from the democrats and run for the white house. you're watching "chris jansing reports," only on msnbc. s," onl. 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(vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. being middle class right now, it's tough making ends meet for sure. republicans in congress say if we just cut taxes even more for the biggest corporations the money will eventually someday trickle trickle down to you. right. joe biden would rather just stop those corporations from charging so damn much. capping the cost of drugs like insulin. cracking down on surprise medical bills and all those crazy junk fees. there's more work to do. tell the president to keep lowering costs for middle class families. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv i'm barbara and i'm from st. joseph, michigan. i'm a retired school librarian. i'm also a library board trustee, a mother of two, and a grandmother of two. basically, i thought that my memory wasn't as good as it had been. i needed all the help i could get. i saw the commercials for prevagen. i started taking it. and it helped! i noticed my memory was better. there was definite improvement. i've been taking prevagen for a little over five years. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. my little family is me, aria, and jade. just the three of us girls. i never thought twice about feeding her kibble. but about two years ago, i realized she was overweight. she was always out of breath. that's when i decided to introduce the farmer's dog to her diet. it's just so fresh that she literally gets bubbles in her mouth. now she's a lot more active, she's able to join us on our adventures. and we're all able to do things as a family. ♪ get started at betterforthem.com we're back now with an nbc news exclusive. democratic senator joe manchin is skipping a major event at the white house next week as he mulls a 2024 run against president biden. in fact, just yesterday, manchin talked about the possibility of leaving the democratic party all together to become an independent. here's what he said during a radio interview. >> i just can't. i can't accept either party to be honest with you. >> why don't you become an independent? have you thought about that? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> are you going to do it? >> well, i'm thinking seriously, what's the best for me. i have to have peace of mind, basically. the brand has become so bad, the d brand and r brand. >> so you're thinking seriously about becoming an independent? >> i would think very seriously about that. i have been thinking about that for quite some time. i haven't made any decisions whatsoever on any of my political direction. i want to make sure that my voice is truly an independent voice. >> nbc's julie tsirkin is here for us and msnbc political analyst robert gibbs is back. julie, manchin was one of the prominent guests invited to the white house to celebrate his contribution to the inflation reduction act. you've got more reporting about manchin's current relationship with the white house. what can you tell us? >> reporter: exactly, chris, and he was the prominent guest last year, about a year ago, from next week at the signing of this bill. he was behind president biden. president biden handed him the pen, and this is a bill that manchin touted as one that he coauthored. you see the picture on the screen, one he wrote, he named, defending the naming of it yesterday, even though hours later president biden said he regretted calling it the inflation act. if he were to run again for senate in west virginia, the independent switch doesn't really make as much sense to me, right, because this isn't arizona. this is a state where it is ruby red. manchin is pretty much the only democrat that can be elected there again. he's the only statewide democrat still elected in the state. but when it comes to the relationship between the two joes, they go way back. they have been close a number of years. obviously in the last few years, especially since manchin has been many times a deciding factor, a deciding vote, especially when it comes to biden's key legislative priorities, things have started to shift. in recent months as we get closer to 2024, when manchin is up for reelection, we have seen him throw jabs at the administration, throwing jabs at the bill he himself wrote, saying biden caters to the left in implementing this bill, focusing on all green and all clean, manchin said, instead o the investments, it makes security. the main conduit is steve brew , dehad dinner with manchin, to feel him out, see if there are curve balls they should beware of as he begin makes his political decisions known. >> julie, thank you so much for that. so, robert, political implications, there seem to be to be two areas to talk about, one is control of the senate. the second one is if he does decide to run with no labels, does it make a serious no labels run more likely? >> on your second question, i don't think it affects the outcome, really, in terms of no labels. look, i think what joe manchin is doing here, i think if you listen to the words of that interview is to just make sure west virginians know he's an independent voice. he said it there at the very end. he doesn't want to be associated with the democratic brand or the republican brand. in west virginia, joe biden got less than 30% of the vote, so he wants to remind people that he's truly independent. i'm not surprised he's not going to -- that he's not going to the white house for this event because i think as he gets closer and closer to election in west virginia, the more and more, quite frankly, independent and away from any of those power centers, he's going to want to seem. >> we've only got 15 seconds, what do you think the chances are that he jumps ship? >> i think they're very small. i really don't think he's going to jump ship. i think he'll keep his options open, and emphasize how independent he is. >> robert gibbs, always great to have you on the program. thank you, sir, that's going to do it for us this hour. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right after a break. have a dpraet weekend. right afa break. have a dpraet weekend. with astepro's unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go! great weekend.great weekend.to ? 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um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. good to be with you, i'm katy tur. it would not be a summer friday unless we had multiple breaking news stories to bring you. the hearing for the protective order in jack smith's election interference case for donald trump just wrapped. we have the details of what happened in the courtroom, and what judge warned donald trump and his legal team about, but we begin with big news from the department of justice. attorney general merrick garland announced another special counsel, this one for hunter biden. why now? the investigation appeared to be nearing an end, appeared. there was a plea deal, even though it was rejected by a judge. and