felt like, okay, i'm going to read the article. but do i really have to? i'm just gonna find out the name of the rich guy who paid for him. senator sheldon whitehouse is gonna join us with his reactions to the latest turn in the road, so to speak, for clarence thomas. >> the supreme court ethics thing, i feel like it's a banking your head against the wall, because the more on planetary and consequential the ethical -- like, literally, financial, ethical conflict of interest issues are exposed, just the clear it gets they don't feel they need to answer anybody, they don't feel constrained by any rules, no matter what you expose, they're never gonna do anything about it. i feel like sheldon whitehouse is the one member of the u.s. senator was consistent consistently optimistic that something can and should be done. so, i'm glad you've got him. >> i will ask him how his head feels. [laughter] >> very good. >> thank you, rachel. thank you. >> well, we've had a flurry of motions filed tonight by donald trump's current defense lawyers and by special prosecutor jack smith in the newest criminal prosecution of donald trump in washington, d.c.. and we have a lot of new tv statements from donald trump's criminal defense lawyer john lauro, who has declined our standing invitation to appear on this program. but he decided to do several political chat shows this weekend. our legal team of andrew weissmann, neal katyal and harry litman are here to see if they can do what i couldn't do, which is find anything in what john lauro on television, that sounds like it could be an effective legal defense in the courtroom against the charges that special prosecutor jack smith has brought against donald trump for conspiracy to defraud the united states, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding. before we get to the video of john lauro's weekend tv lawyering, the break breaking news of the night is the exchange in federal court in washington, d.c. tonight where special prosecutor jack smith filing his response motion tonight, a few hours after trump's criminal defense lawyer john lauro met the five pm deadline for his team's legal filing. the argument in these motions is about what evidence in the case can donald trump and his defense lawyers make public. special prosecutor jack smith is asking for a protective order on basically all the evidence that the prosecution hands over to the defense in the discovery process. and the trump defense is asking the judge to, quote, shield only generally sensitive materials from public view. trump defense team's response acknowledges that grand jury testimony would have to remain secret. and then, makes suggested changes to jack smith's proposed protective order that might seem like small changes. here is an example of the changes, the way they look on paper. john lauro and his team, recommending to the judge, their changes are in red. and as you can see, most of what jack smith is asking for there john lauro, i actually agrees with, mostly. jack smith's response says that the changes that john lauro wants to make in the protective order are, quote, designed to allow him to try this case in the media rather than in the courtroom, to emphasize that point, jack smith notes, quote, on sunday august six, defense council appeared on five television programs and discussed this case in detail. jack smith john lauro statements on television at length showing how eager he is to potentially make the prosecution's evidence and the case public. jack smith says such conduct has the potential to unnecessarily inflame public opinion short of all relevant facts, intimidate witnesses, pollute the jury pool. in his motion to the judge about releasing evidence, donald trump's attorneys foolishly gave the judge a classic trumpian example of how donald trump and john lauro are willing to grotesquely manipulate evidence and the language spoken by people in this case. john lauro said in writing to the judge, quote, president biden promised from the outset that his administration would ensure president trump does not become the next president again. that was one of the juvenile and untrue ways in his filing, that john lauro was attempting to identify president biden as the real prosecutor in this case, when in fact president biden has had nothing to do with the case. john lauro insulted the intelligence of the judge in the case, in his attempt to push the lie that president biden is the real prosecutor of this case. john lauro deliberately and offensively, to the judge, left out the words, if he does run. that is what president biden actually said. if he does run, president biden will make sure that donald trump does not become the next president. if someone runs, the way you prevent them from becoming president's you beat them in the election. here is the full context of the joe biden quote that john lauro mischaracterized willfully to the judge. it came at a press conference in response to a question about g7 countries expressing concern about american democracy. >> the entire genesis of that g7 conversation was tied to your predecessor, who is about to launch another campaign. so, how do you reassure them if that is the reason for the questioning, that the former president will not return, that his political movement is still very strong, and will not again take power in the united states. [laughter] >> well, we just have to demonstrate that he will not take power by -- if he does run -- by making sure he, under the illegitimate efforts of our constitution, does not become the next president again. >> if he does run, judges do not like being lied to by lawyers who deliberately leave words out of quotes and a deliberate attempt to mischaracterize evidence or grotesquely distort quotations, to fuel illegitimate legal arguments. in his brief, john lauro has given the judge a perfect example of what jack smith accuses john lauro and donald trump of not to do with the prosecutions evidence in this case. we will get to the weekend video of john lauro in a moment. but we begin with three expert readings of the motions filed in this case tonight. leading our discussion tonight is andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel and former chief of the criminal division in the eastern district of new york. he's a professor and practice at nyu law school and msnbc legal analyst. also with us neal katyal, former acting u.s. solicitor general and host of the podcast courtside with neal katyal. and harry litman is joining us. he's a former u.s. attorney, former deputy assistant attorney general. he's a senior legal affairs columnist for the los angeles times. and, andrew, you are reading of the dueling motions tonight? >> well, i think a lot of viewers might be asking, what is all the fuss about? why is this such a big deal? why, for instance, am i really upset at what is happening here? and i think that -- what this is about is the government is trying to protect the integrity of the judicial process. and what i mean by that is that they do not want to see, not just that this case should not be tried in the press, that you should not have intimidation and retaliation against witnesses. mike pence is obviously one, that you have the former president having issued statements that he would go after people who go after him. and in the filing that was made by john lauro and todd blanche, they say that is protected political speech. there is no sense of shame. they try and say it wasn't about a threat or retaliation. it is a horrifying example of what's to come. and this is the government trying to have a strict protective order to protect the judicial system. this is something he's gonna try the case in the press, and in order to not lose in the court, they need to take these extra judicial steps of threatening people. and imagine a more junior person, people like cassidy hutchinson, seeing what's going on, think of court officers, jurors, families of witnesses, law enforcement officers, judges and their families, let alone the prosecutors and their families. this is a way to say that is not what discovery is for. discovery is not to give you information to try to attack those people. this is a rule of law country. and that is the reason for this back and forth that you saw over the weekend and what is at stake here. >> neal katyal, so, accompanying this filing outside of the courtroom, donald trump has attacked the judge in the case, as he apparently always does, if it's a judge that he has not appointed. he is attacking jack smith repeatedly. and you see in the filing john lauro doing to joe biden's words exactly what jack smith predicts they will do with the evidence in this case if they get to release it publicly, which will take five words out of a 15 word line that some witnesses said completely distorted and put it out there and try to sell it for the public. and then, jack smith's terms, among other things, pollute the jury pool. >> yes, first of all, lawrence, i'm a little shocked to be saying this. but i actually agree in a way with donald trump. judge chutkan is a jack smith dream judge. she is a judge with integrity. we all know that nothing scares donald trump more than a judge who is actually gonna uphold the rule of law. and i think you are exactly right when you talked about that biden quote that is in the filing today, which is wrong on multiple levels. the most obvious way in which it's wrong is that joe biden is not the prosecutor in this case. indeed, he has nothing to do with it. jack smith is a career prosecutor, independent of the political chain of the justice department. he is operating as special counsel, and the rules i know, because i wrote them when i was a young justice of the department stat, which gives him independents. biden has nothing to do with the prosecution whatsoever. the other thing about it, that quote, you know, the original context is not just the language if trump runs, but also joe biden says he would only do this with, quote, legitimate efforts within our constitution. and so, that is not the kind of donald trump, you know, who or lock up your opponent, all this stuff that trump is famous for. it's legitimately operating within the constitution. contrast joe biden's behavior as president with donald trump's behavior, just within the 24 hours after he was indicted last week, the judge warned him in the arraignment, don't intimidate any witnesses. and as andrew says, what does he do? he goes in and intimidate witnesses. so i am 100% behind jack smith on this. i think this is tremendously despicable behavior on the part of any defendant. and i sure hope that judge chutkan reigns it in this weekend in the hearing. >> harry litman, the question of how far apart are these two sides over this question of a protective order, because of a trump team is saying, yes, there should be a protective order. it doesn't have to be as expansive as the government's protective order. it should be somewhat narrower. jack smith came back criticizing the changes that the trump team wanted to make. but when you look at it, how big is the difference between these two positions, and where do you expect the judge to come down? >> as a practical matter, the difference is modest. but as a philosophical matter, it is enormous. and it is for the reasons andrew says. we go to great care and expanse to have a trial process that is fair, under certain rules, the way evidence is used, the way witnesses come in, the way jurors are hopefully impartial at the beginning, and the mindset that trump and lauro are advocating for openly is exactly whether it's in small measure or large measure, to be able to pick and choose. and that's the only possible reason, to be able to try the case and the press, i.e. pollute the jury pool, or to call out individual witnesses, as he did to pence, i.e. in intimidating witnesses. those are the two big lookout for judge chutkan. also to your point, that little change of four words, trump does that a times before breakfast, and we let it go. judges will not like it. so, my expectation is that she has agreed to hold a hearing on friday. and that way, she is being indulgent to trump, fine, okay, we will hear you out. and i think she will -- he may not be there, i think she will explore i-8 lauro for certain, and begin to draw a line and make clear. they broke some of the road they had before trump is eventually done with very, very harshly. i don't expect her to spend the baby on this one. >> let's get a look at donald trump criminal defense lawyer making his television rounds this weekend. >> president trump and his advisers didn't just ask me to pause, they asked me to reject votes, we turn votes, essentially to overturn the election. >> what is your response? >> mike pence would be one of our best witnesses at trial. based on what vice president pence was saying, the government will never be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that president trump had corrupt or criminal intent. and that's what this case is about -- >> mike pence said this week is that president trump, what he did was wrong. and he knew it was wrong, and he was pressing him to do something that was wrong. it was also pretty clear, he never said it was criminal. he said it was wrong, never said it was criminal. >> andrew weissmann, didn't john lauro win that round? >> no. but let me just say one thing about defense lawyers. so, you know, when you know that there is a witness who is very bad, who is for you, on your side, who is going to take the stand, you have to do something. and so, since he is trying the case in the press, there's nothing better than to say, oh, no, we welcome that person. i mean, privately, that is what they are really saying, of course, we don't love that person. but the fact, this is a common practice, because you have no alternative. that person is going to take the stand. the other is a sleight of hand. you know, because he is a lawyer, you know neal, harry and i are lawyers. so we have to understand, witnesses don't say that was criminal. that's a decision for a judge to give jury infractions, and for the jury to find, based on those instructions. a witness doesn't get to say i am telling you that was criminal, that is what the jury is going to do with the end of his case. so, again, it is sleight of hand to say she, they witnessed, can be very good because they're not saying it's criminal. but i think let's get real. it's the vice president of the united states saying i was being told to do something and asked to do something that was unconstitutional. and let's just remember, this is not -- john lauro set a technical violation. it is overthrowing the will of the people. this is one where -- i mean, this is so childish when you step back. i mean, again, it is just not a serious discussion when you think about, even to stretch slightly beneath the surface here. >> okay, on sunday, john lauro changed his story from the one he told on television last week. here's what john lauro said last week. >> professor eastman laid out a series of options that were discussed with vice president pence. vice president pence disagreed on certain issues, but ultimately what president trump said, let's go with option d. let's just halt. let's just bought the voting around the state legislatures to take one last look and make a determination as to whether or not the elections or handled fairly. >> now, that appears to be john lauro offering donald trump's admission that he did do exactly what the indictment says that he did in asking for a so-called pause in the counting of the electoral votes. and congress -- donald trump actually achieve through the violent attack on the capitol, and trump going with coconspirators, desperately calling and emailing senators, including rudy giuliani, john eastman, who have at 11:44 pm on january 6th, when congress had returned to count the electoral votes, sent an email to the vice president's counsel, asking him for a pause in the process. and admitting in writing in that email that the pause would be what john eastman called in the email, a minor violation off the electoral count act. john lauro falsely claimed yesterday that donald trump asked for a pause in his speech on january 6th. that is a lie. donald trump never once used the word pause in his speech on january six, not once. here's how that new story went yesterday. >> the ultimate option that mr. trump asked for, president trump asked for at the ellipse speech was merely to pass the voting for a period of time, to allow the state legislature -- and even then, mr. eastman said, it was a violation of the law. so he did know that he was breaking the law. >> no, he didn't say that -- >> he said it was a minor violation of the law. >> he said that the electoral count act was not constitutional. and the only thing required under the electoral count act is a vote on january 6th. what mr. eastman said -- >> it was a violation -- >> you have to let me finish. >> so, neal katyal, constitutional expert, john lauro saying that donald trump could violate any law that he thinks is unconstitutional. >> so, my constitutional expertise tells me one thing, lawrence, which is that donald trump's lawyer, john lauro, should know there's only one person who can pull off five back to tv interviews and remain coherent, and that is andrew weissmann. [laughter] certainly he's not -- with respect to his claim about trump running a pause, first of all, most coup players don't like to say coup, they shroud their language and other things. and trump, as you say, he used the word pause. but when john lauro uses the word of, what he means is pausing in the counting of legitimate votes that you and i and all americans cast, those that have been ratified by the secretaries of state in every one of these state, solemn state processes, and 62 different courts have signed off on it. and where congress had set a solemn date, january 6th, to count all these votes. this wasn't like a pause. this was an attempt to throw out the popular vote and replace it with something that trump wanted, his own slate fake electors. that is fully undemocratic. every day, it has always been throughout our history. and their defense is, listen to john eastman, i am sorry, john eastman is a constitutional nobody. and there was a person after person who told trump from his own attorney general bill barr to the white house counsel, to all the other lawyers in the white house counsel's office, all thoughts of people said, you lost this election. you've got nothing here. trump shopped with -- one lawyer john eastman, who said something -- he didn't believe it because he thought he'd lose 9 to 0 in the supreme court as the indictment says. >> harry litman, george stephanopoulos repeatedly tried to get an answer to the question that, will donald trump take the witness stand and testify that he did not say to mike pence, you are too honest. and john lauro absolutely ran away from that question multiple times, as far as he could. george stephanopoulos did with it as long as he could. and the only response he ever got was john lauro saying basically the defense doesn't have to prove anything. >> he will run away from it until the very last minute, and be cool, and say he might take the stand. and axiom number one, donald trump will not testify. you and i went through this before. he has to testify and he cannot testify. but is a really unfortunate sort of lawyers, now, it's funny that a lot of these rules of evidence and matters of presentation become important sort of nationally and politically. and if trump can't just effect, and he cannot testify, i dare say, it becomes very problematic how he is going to get in these things and testify, even though he is doing it on tv. and who will actually step forward to say confidently, with confident testimony, i know that trump will leave -- he really did win the election. it's not clear he's got anybody. rudy giuliani maybe? 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um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. >> in a letter issue today in the espionage and obstruction of justice case against donald trump from a florida federal court, the judge in the case, aileen mercedes cannon, who was appointed by donald trump, ordered the lawyers in the case to, quote, addressed the legal property of using an out of district grand jury receiving to continue to investigate and or seek post indictment hearings on matters pertinent to the indicted matter in this district. andrew weissmann, neal katyal and harry litman are back with us. andrew weissmann, what do you make of judge cannon's order? >> so, there is people who are thinking that we have judge cannon 2.0. this looks like we do not, that this is judge cannon, although judge cannon who has reversed twice by the 11th circuit. she seems to reject two filings by the government that said that they needed to be under seal because they involve grand jury matters. and she said, i don't understand the basis for why they are under seal. that is flaw number one. number two, she seems to have revealed that there was an ongoing, or there was a grand jury in another district, that is violation number two, because you don't tell grand jury about this. and violation three in terms of the law, numerous legal basis to have a grand jury outside a of florida, and she may think, like desantis is the center of the world, it's not the center of the world for where all grand jury matters have to happen. there are numerous bases to bring grand jury matters elsewhere. this looks like it may be a trifecta of real legal problems in her analysis here. it will be interesting to see what happens here and whether this is the route for the government to say, she is just too inexperienced to have this case and she needs to be recused. >> and, neal katyal, in her order, she appears to be reaching out to the trump and his codefendants defense to suggest to them an obstructionist idea to propose at this stage of the case. this is not something, this question of washington, d.c. grand jury is not something that has been raised by the criminal defense lawyers. >> that's right, lawrence. i mean, it's possible that she did. it looks like she may have disclosed this grand jury investigation to everyone, including the defense. it might not be the case. maybe there's stuff we don't know. but this is a very inexperienced judge who just got reversed last week for forgetting to swear jurors in, which is beyond a rookie mistake. and i do believe that the justice department has authorized an appeal and obtained a switch of judges in similar circumstances because you can't have a judge, for example, disclosing sensitive information, if that in fact what happened. i just said, we just don't know very much. but andrew is absolutely right. there is nothing wrong with a d.c. grand jury investigating this, because there is obstruction activity that took place in washington, d.c.. indeed, jack smith could have easily charge this entire thing in d.c.. but perhaps that is still providing course -- >> harry litman, what are jackson its options? >> look, the department, as neal katyal and andrew said, they could choose this as the time to go after her. she's got a couple of strikes on her. it's a little tough. my best guess is they won't use this to really go to that. they'll wait for something more severe. but as andrew and neal said, it is a coffin-y -- and unlike before where trump said stuff, she apparently came up with this on her own. and a court could have told her in 15 minutes it was crazy. and she came out with it anyway. that is really unsettling. >> it does raise the question, and i haven't seen any reporting on this, what about a clerk? is she, does she have a crook working for her? and if she does, i don't know where that clerk goes to work after this. andrew weissmann, neal katyal, harry litman, thank you very much for joining our discussion. i really appreciate it. >> you are welcome. >> thank you. and when we come back -- who paid for clarence thomas is very expensive motor home? hint -- not him. senator sheldon whitehouse joins us next on the latest turn in the ethics role for clarence thomas and his motor home. that's next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. my name is wendy, i'm 51 years old, and i'm a hospital administrator. when i talk to patients you can just see from here up when you're wearing a mask. and i have noticed those lines beginning to really become not so much moderate but more severe. i'm still wendy and i got botox® cosmetic. and i'm really happy with the results because they're very subtle, and i feel like i look like myself, but just less lines. botox® cosmetic is fda approved, to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness maybe a sign of a life threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history. muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins. as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com ♪ did you know 80% of women are struggling with hair damage? 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(warehouse ambience) introducing togo's new french dip sandwiches featuring fresh artisan bread piled high with tender roast beef, smothered with melty provolone cheese and served with hot au jus for dipping. try the roast beef or pastrami french dips today >> it feels like most people, only at togo's the question never crossed my mind who paid for clarence thomas's home. but as soon as you hear the question now, you know the answer, a rich friend of clarence thomas. and this time, at least, the front is a real friend, not a republican billionaire who decided to purchase proximity to and influence with the supreme court justice. anthony welters actually met clarence thomas when they were both relatively young black men working on the republican side of the united states senate. mr. welters worked for the liberal republican senator from new york, jacob javits back in the day when there was still some liberal republicans. mr. welters went on to become a hugely rich businessman, and a political contributor to president obama, and his wife became president obama's ambassador. here is a 60 minutes segment from 2007, with clarence thomas discussing everything about his very expensive motor home except to pay for. >> what kind of financials -- >> this has got and av92 -- it's got a av92. >> one of his passions is this 40 foot long motor home that he and his wife used to explore the united states and their downtime. the u.s. marshals who protect justice thomas would not let us show the outside of it for security reasons, since he's been known to put it up overnight in walmart parking lots. >> you find this relaxing? >> yes, it's away from the meanness that you see in washington, you get to be with just the regular folks. and it is so pleasant. >> the new york times reports that anthony welters's loan plan storms the money to purchase that 267,000 dollar motor home, and that mr. welters told the times that the loan was eventually, quote, satisfied. mr. welters did not clarify whether that means clarence thomas actually paid off the loan in full. clarence thomas and mr. welters have refused to provide any documentation of the loan, which could in fact be a gift, which could carry a significant tax burden that supreme court justice clarence thomas could be willfully and criminally evading. joining us now is a democratic senator sheldon whitehouse. he's a member of the senate judiciary committee and chair of the subcommittee on federal court. he's also the host of the podcast, making the case. senator whitehouse, i am searching your face for surprise tonight, that clarence thomas got some help paying for the motor home. >> yeah, i never thought of a pattern with justice alito and justice thomas getting things unreported from wealthy friends. as you said, it does look like this individual was an actual friend, unlike some of the right-wing billionaires. but we are throwing right away into the problem of this was never reported. and when you ask questions to find out whether or not it should have been reported, was the lone forgiven, or was it paid off? really basic questions like that, you cannot get a straight answer from anybody. and it is the same with justice alito and leonard leo and the alaskan fishing trip. and it's the same with the circumstances of the indonesia vacations and both of them have their ethics filings on hold while they try to work through this, i guess, and figure out what they need to report and what they need to update. but it's really different than every other court in the country. it is different than ethics officials which would require an executive branch folks, or legislative branch folks, you simply don't get to get away with not revealing what the facts are when there is a question about the propriety of what you are up to a significant government job. >> and the question of how much, if any, of the $267,000 did clarence thomas pay back, it becomes a very serious income tax question for clarence thomas if the answer is anything other than, i paid it back in full. >> correct. there are tax issues here. there are reporting issues here. there are ethics issues here. and none of these issues are addressed by the stone wall of silence that have fallen around this court and its propensity for gifts from which people. >> you know, mr. walters is in one position here, where he at least talked to the new york times and acknowledged some information. but clarence thomas absolutely zero. and it is within clarence thomas's power tonight to disclose everything about that loan and how he got that motor home. >> and it's exactly the same thing when there was questions about whether he should have recused himself in the january 6th case, very simple answer to that question based on the fact that what he knew about his wife's insurrection activities, and when he knew it. and he hasn't answered that question yet either. we went after him, he went after months and months of people looking at those facts, and trying to figure out what went on. simply because it's not appropriate for senior officials, particularly justices, to refuse to answer basic questions about whether there are following the law. >> and speaking of recusal, justice thomas did it recuse himself twice in cases that could involve mr. welters interests, which is the proper thing to do. he never did give a reason why. so this one is probably not about undue influence on the supreme court justice. they are really old friends. but it is about august financial reporting by a supreme court justice and tax compliance, obeying the tax law. >> that's right. this does not have the overtones of improper influence of the right-wing billionaires going around alito and thomas in the company of leonard legal, the billionaire's court court fixer. but it plays right into the problem of people not telling the truth about what actually went on, so that the public can be satisfied that it complies to the tax laws, he complies with the ethics laws, and with a disclosure laws. so, there's not even an effort to make a disclosure. it is just omerta. >> senator sheldon whitehouse, rachel referred to you as banging your head against the wall on this subject for years now. we thank you for that effort. you have brought light to this in a way that no one else has. thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you, sir. >> thank you. and coming up -- moments before being expelled from the tennessee general assembly in april, our next guest said this. >> this is not just about young generation needing to conform to this body is principalities and the ways that it operates. it's not how this body has to change and transform to meet the needs of this societal. how it needs to change and transform to meet the needs of this generation, how it needs to change and transform to meet the needs of people who deserve health care, who deserve adequate education, opportunities, who deserve safety, it's how this body has to transform. >> last week, justin j. pearson who had already been reinstated in his position in the legislature has won his reelection to the tennessee general assembly. state representative justin j. pearson joins us next. soarn joins us next. ve colitis takes you off course. put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid symptom relief and helped leave bathroom urgency behind. check. when uc tried to slow me down... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when uc caused damage rinvoq came through by visibly repairing my colon lining. check. rapid symptom relief... lasting steroid-free remission... ...and the chance to visibly repair the colon lining. check, check, and check. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or 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obligation to do what is just, to do what is right, and to do what is fair. and what i can promise to those of you who may have cried today, those of you who mourn the seaming and and assault on our democracy. like i say to folks who are worried about whether or not, there is one sign that said, am i next? but i can say to you that the movement for justice can never die. because the heart for justice can never be killed. >> that was tennessee state representative justin j. pearson before the republican-controlled tennessee general assembly expelled him. he was immediately reinstated to the general assembly by local officials who control appointments to vacant legislative seats. and last week, representative justin j. pearson and his colleague who was also expelled at that time, representative justin jones, won reelection to the legislature. tennessee's republican governor bill lee has called for a special legislative session in two weeks to address gun violence. polling shows 72% of registered voters supported red flag laws to prevent general granulated violence, support increases to 75% on the question associated to prevent school shootings. representative jones and representative pearson were expelled from the legislature for the way they responded to a school shooting at the covenant school in national. joining us now is democratic state representative justin j. pearson of tennessee. thank you very much for joining us tonight, representative pearson. congratulations on your reelection. what do you want your reelection to say to the general assembly? >> thank you so much, lawrence. i believe our elections has a lot to the general assembly, most importantly, that you can't expel a movement. you can't expel hope. and you cannot stop people who are advocating for change. gun violence is the number one killer of children in our state. the covenant school shooting had three children aged nine years old to be killed in our community, in district 86, suffering from homicides significantly. in rural communities, a lot of communities are dealing with homicide. we have to do more. and i believe our community has sent a clear message to the republican party, cameron sexton, william, this movement will not stop. and we are going to continue to advocate for change because that is what our kids deserve. that is what our community deserves. and the national association, they can't take that right away. >> were you surprised by that polling showing 75% support red flag laws? >> i'm not surprised by the polling that the majority of people in tennessee overwhelmingly want to see red flag laws, overwhelmingly want to see universal background checks. it is common sense gun safety legislation that people want, because no one wants to be a victim of gun violence, and particularly for elected officials, we can do way more than just offer our thoughts and prayers prayers. we can listen to the people in our communities, and we can pass just lost. and that is what the republican party in the majority, super majority in tennessee needs to do in the special session coming up here. >> do any of the republicans in the legislature learn any lesson that you can detect from the way they expelled you and saw you come back so quickly? >> -- democracy, in a real sense, the republican party here in tennessee has been written in white supremacy and patriarchy for quite a long time. and in order for us to change the, it requires what happens externally to impact what happens internally. we had hundreds of thousands of people marched, sent emails, make phone calls, and that is forcing them to have a change in perspective, and not a change in hard. so, as we go to the special session, and as we move forward, the tennessee that is being dealt is a tendency that is rooted in hope, justice, and protest for what we know to be right and what we deserve across the spectrum. multiracial, multi ethnic, multi socioeconomic, multi generational movement from justice here in the south. >> what did you learn in your first term and the legislature that will inform your second term? >> we must listen to the people, and we have to sometimes risk it all in order for the people's voices to be heard. there is no way for us to get justice without some sacrifices. for us, it was a sacrificing, unfortunately, of our seat in our democracy. but it is also the truth that the phoenix does rise from the ashes, and that the communities that are being oppressed and pushed to the periphery will be brought to the center of the conversation, and that the people who are told that their voices do not matter, and that they don't have any space in the tennessee general assembly will demand one. and that is the hope that continues to push me forward as we move into this next phase of our ability to serve our communities. and i believe that is gonna change tennessee and it can change this country. >> tennessee state representative justin j. pearson, thank you very much for joining us again tonight. and congratulations on your reelection. >> thank you. let's keep going. >> thank you. we'll be right back. l be right back. for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn't ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can dramatically relieve ra and psa symptoms, including fatigue for some. it can stop joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and 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