during his arraignment not to influence a jury or try to intimidate witnesses or anyone else involved in the case in any way. with this third indictment, donald trump now stands accused of numerous crimes involving his conduct from before, during, and after his presidency. there's been a lot of legal activity surrounding the former president over the past few months. but, the historic nature of this moment should not be lost in any of us. we are seeing the rails of justice turning as they should to address the attempted coup that many of us watched unfold in realtime back on january 6th. the former president's coconspirators to move the sticks to this to the port. hard to deceive and convince many people for many different walks of life to go along with their plan. the fake electors had to convince fake documents. members of congress had to persuade to stand up and object to the certification of certain states votes. the supporters they called to gathering, washington d.c., on january. six previously on a day that passed without fanfare after every election. what motley stormed the capitol and ransacked the halls of congress and succeeded in delaying the certification of joe biden's victory. >> trump and his coconspirators, unindicted coconspirators at this point, failed to enough years ago but came very close to topple a ours to some of governments. if they got in just one more person, in particular this, man the vice president mike pence, to go along with their escape things in america there could be very different. book mike pence did not follow donald trump's orders thanks in part to a series of tweets that the retired formal federal judge jay michael luttig posted in the morning of january six 2020. one quote, the only responsibility in power of the president of the constitution and thankfully count the electoral college votes as they have been cast. the constitution is not in power the vice president to alternate the way the votes have been cast. but rejecting certain of them or otherwise. and quote. those things are side in the letter on january six committee's way to the capital to faithfully count the electoral college votes. as they were cast by the american people, despite donald trump's demands. as judge luttig concluded in that consequential post on twitter on january 6th, quote, now that the vice president -- now that the president of the vice president has any as any higher loyalty to the constitution. and quote. that former george michael luttig joins me now. momentous week for you sir. i know that you are not looking at all to be part of history january six january for 2020. but your fingerprints are kind of all over. mike pence had the courage to continue to say we had to say despite the pressure that donald trump's attorneys are putting on him, because you had told his attorney that this is a nonstarter. . >> i thank you for coming on this morning. the world who will now bear witness to history as the first american president goes on trial for grave offenses against the united states. the days all the more tragic, big hugs the former president chose to inflict this day and this moments. on the nation. and on the world. on any given day since january six 2021. the former president could have avoided and prevent to this indictment and prosecution and trial. we now know that the former president did not want to avoid prosecution for these offenses. he wanted locksmith to indict him and try and for these grave offenses. to prove to the world to -- the 2020 election which makes today very tragic day in american history and a very tragic day in world history, frankly, l.a.. >> you are very familiar things like these indictments. i want to, read the whole thing as part of a podcast, and everybody watching this can just use like you are getting the corner to hear it. you're very familiar with this type of, thing but i think it is really important to note that within the first couple of pages of the indictment, jack smith and his team stayed very clearly that donald trump under the first amendment had every right to doubt the outcome of the election and challenge here come of elections and call for recounts and call for. audits and take the matter to court in order to litigate what he may have thought it was not a fair outcome in the election. he did all of those things. there were, recounts court cases, and they all came back to the same conclusion that there was no outcome determinants of fraud in the 2020 election. his supporters said -- he had the right to say all that stuff. now what's the distinction here? he had the right to do and turn into stuff that it is less than he did not have the right to do? >> this is critically important, ali. jack smith anticipated that the former presidents primary defense would be under the first amendment to the united states constitution. he crafted the indictment itself, and the specific charges or deterrents go dark right. to walk around the first amendment defense that he knew the former president would serve. so, as a consequence, the former president does not have a first amendment defense to any of these charges, which were brought against them by the grand jury. >> >> i'll talk about truth social posts. i don't really like to do. this in about yesterday, donald trump responded to new details about mike pence. things including the. indictment donald trump wrote that pence has gone to the dark side and has never tell me to -- my quest to. honest now wants to show is a tough guy, trump says. he was arrested during his arraignment to influence georgia or intimidate witnesses. talk to me about all. this style trump is taking material from the indictment, and challenging it in public. i suppose there are first amendment rights to do. this one is a line between you can do and what you can do as it relates to people who are native to the indictments or prosecuting this case? >> unfortunately, ali, that truth social post comes as no surprise to anyone. in fact, we all expected that's kind of thing. we should expect it every day from now until the end of this trial. the former president of this particular post was referencing the indictment itself. and he does have the right to do that. what has been raised on day one by the government. is that when the government provides the information and materials from the former president's defense team, that the government is required to provide to the defendants, then some of that is likely to wing clear to grants during generation. which is protected from disclosure under federal rule six easy. it is a criminal offense to knowingly and intentionally disclosed grand jury information. publicly. so what happened on day one as a war, over the weekend, is that the special counsel saw this post, he sought a protective order from the court. that protective order was designed and written so eyes to prevent the former president and his defense team from releasing information that is going to be provided to them. which would be the disclosure which will be prohibited under law. as to the post over the weekend, present in the first amendment right if you want to call us that. to write that particular post. and he would always have that right, provided he never disclosed protective information. >> you and i met while you are in the process of crusading for stronger laws including the electoral college act. sort of a fixing of its to ensure that some of the stuff that happened on january 6th will not happen again. and there have been updates and changes to the electoral college act. in your, opinion however, given what you know and given your role in the matter, and given what you've read in the indictment, are we in the future protected from a scheme in an effort like we have now seen was underway to overcome the 2020 election? i will protect you against that in the future? is there enough it has changed for that can happen again? >> i think that's exactly the right question, ali, to ask. and the answer is this. in the 11th hour it did pass the electoral count or form a clarifying in strengthening the act that has proceeded its. in addition as ear now the plan to overturn the over the 2020 presidential election depended upon something called the independent state legislature theory of constitutional interpretation. that was wrong in the case more versus harper which was decided by the supreme court at the end of this last term. roundly rejecting that theory. together with the changes and reforms to the electoral count act, and the rejection of the independent state legislature theory by the supreme court. we will x i cannot believe that we will experience another january 6th in history. that does not mean that america is out of the roy's. as you democracy. as long as the former president his allies and supporters are defending may we have in the january 6th, and contending that was necessary, in order to advance and protect our democracy and our constitution. then american democracy remains in peril. >> judge or certainly one of my favorite concerns on the show but i know we had a lot of conservative writers on the person's gonna be their defendants in many cases where we not be settled in the 2024 election. these cases are critically important. however, the election may be more important. people have to separate their conservative or liberal politics from their decisions about how they wish to cast a ballot to preserve democracy or not. in the next election. do you share that view? >> yes. what will now be two multiple trials state and federal, of the former president, between now and the election in 2024. will be a spectacle. unlike america or the world has ever seen. that because -- this trial stand-alone from the election itself. in the election itself, the former president while he is on trial from these grave offenses, both state and federal, he will be the bosom dove nominee of the republican party. as we would expect tom a platform, if you want to call it that. the 2020 election was stolen from him. and that he won that election fair and square. when in fact he actually lost that election parents where. so we're two and a half years, the is continuing a persistent claims by the former president and his allies and supporters have laid waste to america's confidence in their elections in their democracy. and other institutions of law and democracy. the trial in the trials, they would not and that corrosion of american democracy. neither will the election. four for the former presidents to with this election, we have little hope of saving american democracy. in the near future. >> judge, we always appreciate the time that you gave to provide your analysis. as we were at this this week, as i said you know from your testimony from january six what your role was in. us and we are grateful nation for what you've done. judge michael luttig is the former federal judge of the united states court of appeals. for the port circuit. thank you sir. >> thank you, ali. >> coming up, congressman betty thompson chair of the january 6th select committee. as jack smith, said vitally important that we read this indictment. we have time to sit down for an hour to half and really whole thing, i've done it for you. now available as a special episode on msnbc's prosecuting donald trump. podcast scan the code on your screen opens up on the show. have a listen hourly after they. show finally will go to break and leave you with. this amid serious legal troubles are days after federal court, now trump took to the stage last night at the silver elephant gala. spoke for 79 minutes. yesterday's show, the next presidential election is not going to be about policy. but never once in a while, donald trump away from ranting about how he is the most persecuted man in history. and during his extended remarks, trump took some time to do what passes as policy discussion for him. to wax poetic about what his favorite topics are. water. >> little things like your sink. you buy a sink in no water comes out because they have regulators on the water. even if you are in a state where water comes out all day long. doesn't make any difference. when you take a shower, i would like to have -- this gorgeous head of hair. when i take a shower, i want -- to work on me when you go into these new homes with showers. the water drops down slowly. slowly. you have sides. beautiful, nice wonderful sides. and we open up the showers. we open up everything. and you know, you're talking about for the most part, states of so much water they don't know what they are doing without. and we did a great job. almost immediately after he gets into office, we ended up winning the restrictor's back on. so now you can go -- and you can't wash your. hair truly a terrible thing. truly a terrible thing. subaru and our retailers are there to help by giving millions of dollars in funding along with school supplies students need. we call it “the subaru love promise” and we are proud to be the largest corporate supporter of adoptaclassroom.org. it's just one of the reasons forbes ranked subaru the number one automotive brand for social impact. subaru. more than a car company. mlb chooses t-mobile for business for 5g solutions... ...to not only enhance the fan experience, but to advance how the game is played. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. -we're done. -what about these? 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(chainsaw revs) (tree crashes) (chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? >> a deadline has now passed what, we have a ton of mulch. for the leaders of the niger coup to step down or face military intervention. that deadline was imposed by a west african regional bloc of nations called eco it was. however that intervention appears increasingly unlikely has multiple members of the block including other non member neighboring nations have come out against military involvement. in an op-ed in the washington post, niger democratically elected president magoo plea to the united states and others to come to his country's aid. the democratically elected government was overthrown in a coup a week ago, it was the seventh coup in west and central africa in three years. they also warned that the country is at risk of falling under the control of the brutal russian allied mercenary force, the wagner group, which has already involved in several nearby neighboring nations. bosom, have acted in night d1 in nigeria's first democratic election of power claims that he is a hostage and is held since the coup began in the presidential palace by his own guards. on thursday, the leaders of the niger coup says that they had separate essentially all ties with france, the nation's former colonial ruler, and have dismissed the ambassador to the united states. the state department says that it is stopping some foreign aid to niger while continuing security existence. niger has played a major role in helping fight boko haram another terrorist groups in the region. the state department also hoping to evacuate private american citizens. up next, we will head to ohio where republicans are trying to change the rules in order to protect their unpopular and anti-abortion agenda. i will have the latest on this deeply cynical strategy and signs that it might actually be backfiring. backfiring. >> by pros like me. and by pros who can actually dunk, like me. and if we proffer it we know you'll proffer it too. i can dunk if i want to. your bug spray should take out bugs, not keep out people. unlike other sprays that stick around, zevo goes from kill to clean in just seconds, plus it's safe for use around people and pets. zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly. 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ballot right now at a hastily called, summer special election. an election it is an election in august. when you know about that november proposal, you will understand this one. in november, ohio voters are set to decide whether to amend the state constitution to enshrine abortion rights into state law. now the latest polling shows that 58% of ohio's voters support the abortion rights measure, only 50% would be needed to enshrine the abortion rights into the constitution. again, that vote is coming up in november, and that is why this, week ohio republicans have orchestrated a vote to raise the threshold needed to change the constitution to 60%. the proposition that would raise the vote threshold known as issue one was placed on about the spring by the republican ripple -- -controlled legislator, even the republicans themselves just moved to eliminate august elections altogether due to historically low turnout in the summer. so all the focus of issue one is not explicitly about abortion, it is widely understood to be part of a cynical republican strategy to stop the abortion rights amendment in november. not by changing minds, not by compromising on policy, but by changing the rules when no one's looking. if this republican effort to raise the threshold to 60% succeeds this week, the abortion rights measure on november's ballot would go from heavily favored win for abortion rights activists to a toss-up, and maybe even a defeat. ironically, the strategy might be backfiring, mary outcomes that were observed in two other states, kansas and kentucky, in both instances, republican attempts to subject abortion to a vote were met with resistance, even as conservative voters rejected proposed amendments that would have stripped protection for abortion rights from their state constitution. ohio may be poised to join this growing list of states when voters were given the choice, lineup on the side of rights abortion rights or other rights, early voter turnout ahead of tuesday's final voting day in ohio has already shattered records with the surge in participation prompting election offices to recruit additional poll workers. the latest numbers show that voter turnout has surged past 533,000 since early voting began on july 11th, according to the associated press the nationally double the numbers from ohio's proceeding to mid term primary elections which covered significant races for governor and congress. additionally l2, appalling analytics firm tracking early voting trends indicates higher turnout among democratic-leaning voters compared to their republican leading counterparts. as of tuesday, democrats had cashed more than 52% of ballots compared to 40% of voters identifying as republican the strip same poll found that women are turning out in higher numbers than men. with more, i'm joined by david pepper the former chairman of the ohio democratic party and he's also the author of saving democracy a users manual for every american david, good to see you again, thanks for being with us, here is my one question, i'm running into a lot of people i spoke to u.s. representative from ohio the other night who said that the big problem here is that there is another set of people in ohio who don't know about this vote. >> yeah, that's why they put on an august they're hoping to sneak it past when no one is paying attention. he adds that they are running very confusing, misleading they're making about everything but the actual change to describe and to go back for a second. when i came on, we talk about this attack on democracy, and if we saw what they are doing here in another country, the lawlessness, the changing of the rules, the gerrymander legislature doing it all we would literally say, my god, that place has no democracy it is violating its own rule of law. it is happening right here in ohio in front of our very eyes. but, that is as you've said, what they will do when they see that they have a toxic decision that is deeply underwater for voters. but they are desperate to keep it in place. so they are literally willing in ohio and frankly around the country to break rules, break laws to change 100-year rule of dimmock democracy in ohio that would lead to things like a higher minimum wage, and integrating the national guard. they're willing to kill it all so that 58% of ohioans can get their will express to our constitution it is a cynical and as lawless as it gets. >> one of the interesting things about this is former republican statewide officials have actually come out against this particular move. is that abortion thing, or is that just anti-democratic. >> it's a democracy thing. a lot of polls show that there is a significant number of voters who oppose that november election who also oppose this one because it is such an attack on democracy. so you have john kasich, bond taft, you have the former chief justice republican, maybe the most successful one in ohio, marie o'connor, all saying this is outrageous. now obviously, this is one of the things about november. but keep in mind, these people's legislature are setting themselves in a legal district. they violated a constitution to gerrymander the state for themselves. well this would also stop efforts in the future to fix district-ing so they can't keep acting this way. so this has a big impact this november for the women of ohio, it has a potential national preston but it also means that any decision effort down the road to stop this kind of insane, lawless, anti democratic behavior, is stopped in its tracks. so i will say, it may backfire, it may not. i am not taking anything for granted. i am n>> they not organize their votes show up. the next three days, i believe, or the most important days. in ohio's democracy probably in my lifetime. because it may succeed in this sneak attack in august, and it may have an artificial majority on august 8th only, because they get their vote out and we are not paying attention, they will succeed in locking minority rule for all in the rest of our lifetime, and yours as well so anything you can do to help, it is hugely helpful. we gotta get every voter out. >> again, not an abortion thing. this is a democracy thing. so anybody who's watching us who know someone in ohio, call and tell them what this is. because literally, there are people in ohio have not heard about this. because the middle of summer. people are on vacation, they're doing other things, not thinking about it. to your point that you just made, i want to quote you from the cleanest dispatch, where they say that issue one which is what this vote on tuesday is, issue one is also about beating back any citizen attempt to get amendments for recreational marijuana, gun control, workers rights, increased minimum wage, tournaments, and a host of other things that the majority of people in the great state of ohio may or may not want. so, forget abortion for a second, abortion is central to what this is, but just forget it. this is going to change the way the majority of ohio voters may have an impact on their democracy, as you said. for possibly the rest of our lives. >> yeah, i mean the reason they broke the wrong rule about august special elections was to get in front of the abortion one. and that itself is a complete abuse of power to violate their own law. but yeah, the stops anything and what we have across this country, that is where you have that book you mentioned the right wing's front mind, our state lines for gerrymandering. that's where they can push through an unpopular extreme agenda but because these folks are gerrymandered and most of them or a lot of them during face elections, they get away with it. so anything they can do to protect themselves against the people standing up to these crazy, out of control state houses, as they did in kansas, as he did in michigan, kentucky, is that if they can stop people from kind of grabbing back power of their states and extreme legislators, then their use of the state houses, essentially, hijacking them by extreme gerrymandering, basically if they can do, that they protect that game plan. by the way, one interesting thing is that one of the main organizations pushing this, explains to their own members in a meeting in may that mike pence happened to be -- some reporters where there. they explained, hey listen, this is it. we lost in kansas, they said, we lost to kentucky. after dobbs we lost everywhere. we need a new strategy to stop losing. this is it in ohio, and if they said, if we succeed in ohio, we can stop these things everywhere. if we fail in ohio, we are going to fail everywhere. so for them it is national, for them they are on a losing streak. they want to stop. they want to rig the rules so that stops. so for us, it better be national as well. because if this happens in ohio, it is coming to all the states where they can do it. >> everybody who's watching this who isn't in ohio, as a friend in ohio, or cousin in ohio, or sister on a high, or parent in ohio, or kitten ohio, call them now. david, thank you, david douglas. >> i tweeted links to do a phone banks to ohio, even if you know them here. >> this is not about whether on the left, or the right, or a democrat, or republican, this is just about not moving the goalposts on democracy. you can fight about abortion and weed and minimum wage and all that and later on, or you give away your right to fight. david, thank you so much. in this particular instance, there is another democratic initiative. he is the author of saving democracy, a users manual for every american, an important read. still to come. a deep dive on the charges against donald trump that you may have missed. it may be the single most important charge in the entire indictment. plus, at the top of the hour, i will talk to the former chair of the historic january 6th select committee. the representative many have of mississippi. ve o mississippi. mississippi. so 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have been steadily increasing since the turn of the 20th century, when the amount of carbon dioxide being released into the atmosphere increased dramatically, and since then the ocean has been absorbing higher levels of greenhouse gases and one way the ocean keeps the earth from overheating's redistributing warmer waters using currents. now current patterns regulate the water temperatures by bringing cool water from the poles to the tropics and vice versa but with more greenhouse gases absorbed into the ocean the amount of cool water actually decreases. that, coupled with a slowdown of the ocean current system could mean a break in the system that keeps the earth from overheating. we are already seeing just some of the fallout from the rising ocean temperatures, coral reefs and other important ecosystems are on the verge of collapse. hurricane season is also expected to worsen with the warm weather acting as a fuel for more intense storms. the slowdown of ocean currents could also mean more extreme temperatures on land, making heat waves more intense and cold fronts stretch for months. side to say it is not too late to slow down the effects of climate change, but action does need to be taken immediately, up next conspiracy against rights. why the fourth and final count of the second indictment of donald trump should not be overlooked and how it could matter most in the fight to save american democracy eric >> at the very end of the latest federal indictment against donald trump, there is something you might have missed if you aren't paying attention. the absolute final count, count four, is a lot of just two short paragraphs in the 45-page indictment. tacked on right at the end. but it matters a lot. count four could have conspiracy against rights which reads as follows. donald trump did knowingly combine conspiracy or agree with conspirators known unknown to injure oppressed or intimidate one or more persons in the free exercise and enjoyment of a right and privileged secure to them for the constitution and laws of the united states. that is the right to vote and to have one's vote counted. in violation of title 18 in the eyes dates code, section two for one. that is how the indictment adds. trump is being accused of violating the rights of american citizens. the allegation is important, in the history of how this rights statute came to be is also important. nearly 160 years ago, as the civil war ended in 1865, congress began formulating what would become the reconstruction acts. the first construction act established rules for many of the rebel formerly confederate states to rejoin the union. it established new constitutions for those states, and the black men still did not have the vote federally in the united states, these new constitutions mandated and franchise meant for black men in nearly a dozen southern states right after the civil war. and so, in 1867, black men only began to vote in the south, they ran for office. here is the cover of harper's weekly from 1867 with an illustration titled, the first vote. these are black men voting, within the year, black men began winning local elections in 1968 it black republican named oscar dunn ran for lieutenant governor in louisiana and one. at the same time, anti black sentiment was growing, particularly in the south, the ku klux klan expanded quickly and so did their violent backlash against new black voters. in order to prevent black people from even getting close to the polls the kkk launched intense, violent, intimidation campaigns, and that intimidation eventually escalated to murder. hundreds of black men of voting age across the south were killed by the kkk in the lead up to the presidential election of 1868, some historians put that number at closer to 2000. by 1870, congress took action, establishing what were known as the kkk acts, or the enforcement acts. they were designed to protect civil rights, empowering the government to protect newly enfranchise black people to vote, to hold office, to serve on juries and to receive equal protection under the law. decades later, the law originally adopted as part of the first kkk act of 1870 was amended to become section 2:41 of title 18 of the u.s. code, which in short, mixed illegal to conspire, to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any state in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secure to him by the constitution or laws of the united states. and that includes the right to vote. over the last century, prosecutors have used section 2 to 41 of title 18 to go after various forms of election interference crimes. the law was established because just 160 years ago, black americans were murdered for trying to exercise their legal right to vote. it is been used to prosecute a group of white men who attacked an interracial couple with rocks and bricks, a kkk member who set across on fire in front of the home of a family of mexican and puerto rican defense, and now, former president of the united states. donald j trump has been charged with conspiracy against rights, for alleged crimes committed while he was the 45th president of the united states, and that fact should not be overlooked, it means prosecutors believe that he tried to steal your vote. and that matters to all of us, and that matters to democracy. >> there you go, but. but n. switch now and they'll give you nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv, on them. 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swivel head- that goes places a regular mop just can't. so, you can clean your home faster than ever. >> i was talking about this. don't mop harder, mop smarter, with the new swiffer powermop. this is the shortest count in the federal indictment, it's the last count. is conspiracy against rights. i wanna talk about this with mara wylie, the president -- from united states assistant of united states new york civil division. maya, thank you for being with us this morning. >> wonderful to be with you, especially on this topic, ali. >> i'm 45 pages of indictment, 42 pages are about one count, very well laid out. three pages are devoted to the final three counts, this is the last thing in the entire thing, in fact, under what i just read in that last segment it is the signature of jack smith. to me, it seems poignant that there is not a whole lot of detail in there about this. it is actually supported by the rest of the indictment but it also says that this is the thing that you need to think about if you want to think about electors and you want to think about rudy giuliani, and all the complexity of everything that went on to the case, remember that they tried to take away your right not to just vote, because a lot of american see my right to vote was not affected by any of this. but your expectation that your vote will be counted and it matters. that is also part of this. >> that is part of, and to your point, it is central to it. central to it because we know that one of the reasons we are seeing this third indictment of a former president of the united states is because of what we saw on january 6th and all that it represented. which was exactly what the supreme court has said in interpreting section 2:41, the ku klux klan act, said that your right to have your vote counted is the same as your right to put that vote in the ballot box. trace it equally, is the same thing. and as we know, both from the january six committee process, from what we've seen in the news reporting, and from what is in this indictment, it covers that but it also adds to it, it's that donald trump himself has directly put in the action to purposefully, purposefully prevent the votes from being counted, and really, all of the evidence that runs throughout the indictment all culminates up to that central goal and desire that donald trump had, whether in states or whether in congress, to make sure that peoples votes did not count. >> this is important, because recovering this coup in niger we think in countries like -- we don't think there is an expectation that your vote either is not gonna be counted properly, or matters. we actually have that in this country, but a line that runs through this indictment is the conversations with jeffrey clark. a man who worked at the mid level guy at the justice department. the senior people of the justice department would not do donald trump's bidding, so donald trump was ready to install jeffrey clark as the acting attorney general, and jeffrey clark was quite ready to take that jump. he actually went basically to tell his boss, the acting attorney general, jeff rosen, i'm here to replace you. and only because jeff rosen said, i don't think i'm actually going to resign to a subordinate, so we're going to go talk to the president, did that not happen. but this was this idea that your vote does not matter. donald trump thinks jeff clark should be attorney general so he can do his bidding, and take that election over. this is central to the whole operation. >> it's central, and do his bidding after every single one of his other appointees, the people he handpicked and said these are my people, said, from bill barr to his acting, u.s. attorney general to his own white house counselors, saying, no. you can't do this. this is wrong, and we don't have evidence of substantial voter fraud. this was not only in the public eye because we had governors, republican governors, from nevada to arizona, saying no. this is not true. you have him trying to pick and choose the people who will do his bidding in despite the assertions of his own people telling him, no. that is not right, that is not true. and i just want to underscore this point, ali, that you are making. because it also goes to the voter fraud allegations, lies, part of the indictment jack smith and his team the u.s. government is not saying that donald trump did not have a first amendment right to lie. what they said is, you got together with other people but using lies as a tool to commit your fraud and prevent voters votes from counting. and that is how it all mixed together, and that is what is so insidious about all of this is when you look at the people underneath some of this fraud, who the victims are, from detroit, voters of detroit, predominantly black voters in atlanta, fulton county, predominantly black. people getting called out and threatened, their lives threatened with about whether they're trying to rig an election. black poll workers, women. this is something that is an undercurrent in nevada, he explicitly lied, and told lies about whether non-citizens were voting. hue that to mexicans, cue that to the dog whistles of race, and that really is part of why we saw so much white supremacy neo-nazi-ism extremism, with their banners flying. with their t-shirts on, and proudly proclaiming their white supremacy as they threatened our elected officials and tried to prevent our votes from counting. >> finally be the perfect person to talk about this. thank you for being with us this morning. maya wylie is the president and ceo of the leadership conference on civil and human rights. former united states attorney for the sdny civil division and a civil rights attorney. straight ahead, i'll talk to representative benny thomon