Transcripts For MSNBCW Ana 20240704

Officials expected to speak this hour after prosecutors ask for a dna swab from the suspected serial killer. It is 10 00 eastern. We made it to friday. Thanks for being here. Im Ana Cabrera Reporting from new york. This morning, donald trump is gearing up for yet another trial. He is set to appear before a d. C. Federal judge in about three weeks and that hearing set after former president and 2024 gop frontrunner pleaded not guilty yesterday to charges that he tried to overturn the 2020 election. Now, his dramatic courtroom appearance just a few minutes walk from where the january 6th violence unfolded. Joining us now is nbcs garrett haake, one of the few reporters who got to go inside the courtroom with trump. Nbc news correspondent dasha burns is here with us, and carol lam, former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst. So, lets start with garrett, because in addition to hearing Donald Trumps not guilty plea, the judge also set some conditions for trump as he awaits trial. Garrett, fill us in. Well, some of these are pretty standard. The judge told mr. Trump not to commit any other crimes while out on release and make sure he shows up to any additional hearings at which the government wants him to appear. That wont include that august 28th hearing. It sounds like hell be allowed to skip that one if he wants to. Also told specifically that he cannot discuss this case in any way with anyone thought to be a witness, without attorneys present. That could make it particularly challenging given the number of people still in Donald Trumps orbit who were potentially witnesses in this case, including some of the coconspirators known and unknown. He was also told specifically that he cant do anything to intimidate or bribe or attempt to retaliate against anyone who could be a witness or otherwise involved in this case. That felt particularly trump specific of all the orders that were given in that case, given his long history of speaking out about witnesses and judges and prosecutors and those hes clashed with in the legal kind of battlefield in the past. So we will see how these admonishments are followed by the former president. Perhaps as early as tonight when hes back on the Campaign Trail at a dinner in alabama. And, garrett, real quickly, as you had a chance to sort of soak in the experience of being inside the courtroom, what is top of mind to you . Look, ive been in the courtroom for all three of Donald Trumps arraignments so far. And it strikes me how much more comfortable he is getting in a situation where he was at least initially in new york extremely uncomfortable. That was such a stunning moment i think for everybody to be part of that first arraignment. Yesterday he was much more laid back, kind of joking with his attorneys, looking around the room, looking at almost everyone except jack smith, who sat about 15 feet from him at an angle where they could not have helped but look at each other at least once, but after perhaps meeting eyes once, donald trump did everything he could to avoid looking in smiths direction. Smith, eyes on donald trump the entire time, kind of tried to sort of set it up as a home game for the Department Of Justice in that way. Personal interplay or lack thereof is something ive been very interested in since miami and well see how often they wind up in the same rooms together as these different Legal Proceedings move forward. Great reporting, garrett, thanks so much. Carol, what did you make of the judge warning trump not to commit any crimes while out on bail and not to intimidate any witnesses . As i understand it, thats not something judges tell all defendants. Yeah. And i think garrett had it exactly right. The initial warning, which is not to talk to any witnesses outside the presence of their attorneys is fairly standard, but exceptions are always made for those because sometimes, for example, you might have a husband and a wife together as defendants and, of course, they have to be able to talk to each other and so i think what is likely to happen here is that the Defense Attorney will go to the prosecutors and say, tell us who the potential witnesses are, and, of course, this person travels all the time with the former president , so there has to be an exception there. And something will get negotiated out. The second part of the warning with respect to potential jurors and what and not intimidating them, that is a bit pointed at this stage in the proceedings and i think what the Magistrate Judge was looking at was past conduct of the former president and the things that he has said, not only at his rallies, but also on social media and it is likely that the Magistrate Judge had some conversation with judge chutkan, the district judge who will be presiding over this trial and decided to issue a warning shot that if things get too far, they have issued this condition of release. And they will hold the former president to that condition of release. Certainly setting a tone for the proceedings moving forward in this case. Dasha, trump certainly seems to be back to campaigning very quickly after this. What can you tell us . I dont think we can overstate the gravity, the irony, the juxtaposition, whatever adjective you want to use here, of these charges, having to do with trying to overturn an election. And this same individual, former President Donald Trump, current candidate for president , currently running in an election. He is a candidate for president and if you look at the legal calendar, look at how it lines up with the election calendar, right . He knows that this is going to suck up all of the oxygen and he knows that now hes gone through this a couple of times, he knows he can use this to his advantage. Today hes headed to alabama. Hes going to headline a gop dinner there. And yesterday he used a little bit of that air time already and started to once again hammer the message that we heard over and over again, take a listen. This is a persecution of a political opponent. This was never supposed to happen in america. This is the persecution of the person that is leading by very, very substantial numbers in the republican primary and leading biden by a lot. So if you cant beat him, you persecute him or you prosecute him. And, ana, he has a real hes put his opponents in a real bind here because they have not come out and addressed any of the substance of this indictment. So many of them are sort of echoing his message, right, saying this is a weaponized Justice System there are two tiers of justice for democrats and republicans. And when this indictment in particular is about an election and his claims, his continued claims of election fraud, which are, you know, not based in any fact, if you got these candidates, opponents, who wont come out, and say that he did not win the election, how are they supposed to beat him when they wont tell they wont disabuse voters of the notion that donald trump won, how can they continue to say, you know, that this is a culture of losing, for example, run desantis whole message . And when youre talking about the electoral process that they are currently going through. Carol, the next hearing in this case is august 28th. Thats when judge Tanya Chutkan is hoping to set a trial schedule. The Special Counsel has been upfront. They want to have a speedy trial. Trumps team, not so much. Heres his Defense Lawyer last night on fox. They want to deny him his Sixth Amendment Rights to counsel. They want to deny President Trump his Due Process Rights to look at documents, to get witnesses, to use our subpoena power. They want to deny all of him those rights in a rush to judgment for one political purpose, and thats to uphold the Biden Administration. Carol, your response to that argument . Well, you know, whenever a prosecutor is putting together an indictment, the prosecutor has to think about how that trial is actually going to get tried to a jury of 12 of the defendants peers. And jack smith has done everything he can to try to keep this trial somewhat narrow and confined and that undoubtedly is a lot of the reason why he decided to charge only the former president in this conspiracy indictment and not the coconspirators because once you do that, you end up with six cross examinations or seven cross examinations and a lot of motions filed by all of these defendants. So we got one defendant, one case. Thats it. It is a large wideranging indictment. There are a lot of facts. I went through the indictment, it looks like hell need to call between 30 and 40 witnesses to try this case. So, jack smith has that in mind. It is absolutely possible to finish this case before the November 2024 election. But he has a circumstance here that this former president is already looking at two other criminal indictments with trial dates already set, probably another one coming in georgia as well as a number of civil cases, all before the 2024 election. So, there is some going to have in order for this case to get tried before 2024 november. All the cases are piling up. It is not over yet. Carol lam and dasha burns, thank you, both. Lets bring in msnbc contributor peter baker, who has a new piece out titled for the court of public opinion, trump relies on a what aboutism defense. Peter, let me quote from what you write here. Trump now faces 78 Felony Counts in three different criminal cases. Not to mention a slew of civil lawsuits and trials alleging all sorts of wrongdoing. At least in the court of public opinion, though, his defense can be boiled down to three words. What about hunter . Tell us more about this strategy. Yeah. You heard this literally the day his latest indictment came out. You heard it within minutes, before it came out, the whole argument from trump and his defenders is this is only about distracting from hunter biden, his is the real scandal, the Biden Administration is the real crime family, and donald trump is the innocent victim of political persecution. And, of course, it is a convenient and useful and actually very effective political argument. You hear it all the time if you go out and talk to Trump Supporters across the country, youll hear them say, theyll echo this line, what about hunter . Now, of course, these are not comparable situations. Whatever hunter biden has done is the subject of legitimate scrutiny when a president or Vice President s family uses his stature or status, thats whats going on here, thats obviously something that is legitimately that should be looked at. Whatever you think of hunter biden, nothing that has come out so far comes anywhere close to the issues at stake when we talk about donald trump, not close to overturning the election, not close to jeopardizing national security, not close to fraudulently covering up hush payments to porn star and so it is also worth remembering that hunter biden will never be and has not been the president of the united states. These are not equivalent things. In the political sphere, the defenders are using that and saying lets focus on that and not our guy. They have been pouring it on, given that thats what were seeing in all the fundraising emails coming from the former president himself and they have been trying to tie the hunter biden legal trouble to President Biden which is also disingenuous given there is no evidence that the president was involved in any of Hunter Bidens wrongdoing. A trump ally told nbc news that the more cases trump is facing, the better in the sense that, quote, it makes it easier to make the case that it is a witchhunt, when it is more than one case. Peter, i guess that might work with his hard core base. Does that work with more moderate republicans or independents . Well, no, of course it doesnt. If you talk about swing voters in a general election, the more indictments is not generally a recipe for political success. And, look, the third indictment and facing a possible fourth one, they say, hey, bring it on, the more indictments, the better. It has not hurt him. If anything, it helped him in the republican primary with his base voters, thats true. The argument this shows a conspiracy against him is rather remarkable. To have all the different indictments, and all these different civil cases that have been brought against him and a criminal case against his own family business, in which they already have been found guilty and civil sexual abuse case in which hes been found guilty, it requires you to believe that an extraordinary number of people, judges and prosecutors and plaintiffs and witnesses and officials and all these different jurisdictions and all these different states are all on the same team and working in tandem to go after him, which, of course, is rather remarkable if you think about it. It is just a conspiracy theory. It feels like that to his people. It helps him with his base and the polls show that has been a useful strategy. Well, peter baker, appreciate your time and i encourage people to read your piece, it is really interesting. Thank you. Happy friday. When were back in 60 seconds, new Campaign Reaction to the third arraignment. And pence and swag, two words you might not normally use together. How the former veeps 2024 campaign is hashing in on one line from the indictment. S hash line from the indictment. Also, the Unemployment Rate just dropped, how the markets are reacting this morning and what it means for your wallet. And in about 20 minutes or so, an update on the Gilgo Beach Murders from officials. What we might learn about the case. From officials what we might learn about the case my a1c was up here; now, its down with rybelsus®. His a1c . Its down with rybelsus®. My doctor told me rybelsus® lowered a1c better than a leading branded pill and that people taking rybelsus® lost more weight. I got to my a1c goal and lost some weight too. Rybelsus® isnt for people with type 1 diabetes. Dont take rybelsus® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple Endocrine Neoplasia Syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. Stop rybelsus® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. Serious side effects may include pancreatitis. Gallbladder problems may occur. Tell your provider about Vision Problems or changes. Taking rybelsus® with a sulfonylurea or insulin increases low blood sugar risk. Side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. Need to get your a1c down . You may pay as little as 10 per prescription. Were back on the Campaign Trail following arraignment three for donald trump. Tonight, the former president will speak at the alabama gop dinner, his first event after pleading not guilty again. And this hour ron desantis is speaking in iowa, while former Vice President mike pence has an event tonight in New Hampshire after releaing too honest merchandise. Nbcs julia jester joins us from New Hampshire now. What are you hearing from voters there . Reporter good to be with you, ana. We have been chatting with voters here in New Hampshire about trumps indictment and arraignment this week and for the most part, they havent really been following it closely. A lot of them here are still focused on the issues and heres what gop leader rita told me about what shes hearing from voters in New Hampshire. When you see candidates here in New Hampshire that are reacting to the Trump Indictments and arraignments, you know, what reaction are they getting from voters . What reaction are they getting from you . Well, when i hear them criticizing any other candidate, you want to talk about your policies, your issues, your standing on things. Reporter trump included . Included. I dont want to hear anybody bad mouthing anybody else. Reporter so when voters here are hearing about the Trump Arraignment and indictment, theyre really hearing about it from the Trump Campaign itself calling it a witchhunt and other candidates criticizing the former president and one voter at an Asa Hutchinson event this week said theyre concerned that with every new indictment comes new excitement creating this boomerang effect. And so while theyre not really worried that it is going to affect the election at all, it is top of mind for the media, but not necessarily top of mind for voters here in New Hampshire that are concerned about whether it is Foreign Policy in china or issues like inflation, ana . Julia jester, thank you for that snapshot of whats on the voters mind. Lets bring in matthew dowd. Trump speaking the day after his arraignment, it is just interesting because we have been down this road before now, with this same person. Is it just the former president s reality now and his new reality show, court date, campaign event, over and over . Well, he seems to be using it as a positive jumping off point, which right now for the republican primary it is. Just look at the average of all the polls, ana. Up until the first indictment he was leading by about 15 points on average. Today, after all of these indictments, hes leading by an average of over 30 points in this. So in his view it is why not go out, take these things. He didnt have to appear publicly. He didnt have to appear publicly yesterday. He could have done that hear, by zoom. He decided not to do it, decided to do it publicly because right now they think it is a plus in the republican primary. It is not in the general election, but right now they seem tonal be worried about the republican primary. Mike pence actually has been getting a lot more attention since this indictment because he had a direct role in this and hes trying to seize on the moment. Hes selling too Honest Campaign merch, a reference to trumps reference to pence. Hes seen a surge in contributions. Is the indictment what pence needed to make the debate stage, do you think . Well, it could help him make the debate stage because he was fluctuating, he was fine in the Polling Numbers he needed, but he was fluctuating on a number of contributors, which is 40,000. So that may help him. The problem for people like mike pence and Chris Christie and will hurd and Asa Hutchinson and god bless them for making the argument in a republican ecosystem that donald trump lost the election and shouldnt be doing what hes doing, these indictments are a problem, they seem to be only ones making that argument. The problem is that only affects about 20 or 25 of the republican primary voters who actually want to hear something about that. 75 to 85 of the republican primary voters are favorable toward donald trump and dont want to hear about the indictment. As i say, i think it is great and it is a sign of an integrity that theyre making that argument. But the pool of voters that they can get from that argument is very small in the republican primary. Will hurd was booed when he started making some of those comments about trump. Another president ial candidate, Chris Christie, just talked to new York Magazine about his role in trumps investigation. Take a listen. Have you been questioned in any of the investigations . One of them. Which one . I cant say. What was the broad idea . They were trying to get a handle on what i knew about his knowledge of the reality of the election results. Were you helpful . I was honest. Matthew, just your reaction to yet another republican candidate being drawn into trumps web of legal troubles. Well, i mean, a former prosecutor Chris Christie is the ultimate one right now trying to prosecute the case against donald trump. All of these republicans are in a bind on this because it is different than where the voters are. Chris christie, as a former prosecutor, is the only one in a concerted way making the direct case against donald trump. All right. Thank you so much, matthew dowd. Appreciate your perspective and insights as always. Good to see you. Happy friday. Coming up on ana cabrera reports, an update on the Gilgo Beach Murders investigation from new york and federal officials coming up in just minutes. Plus, was the pizza crust not enough . Court papers show prosecutors are seeking a cheek swab from the suspect for more dna testing. And also this morning, a new jobs report, below estimates for a second straight month. Where does that leave our economy . Nd straight month. Where does that leave our economy . fan 1 there ya go thats what im talkin about josh allen is this your plan to watch the game today . hero fan uh, yea. I have to watch my neighbors Nfl Sunday Ticket. josh allen its not your best plan. But you know what is . Myplan from verizon. Switch now and theyll give you Nfl Sunday Ticket from youtubetv, on them. hero fan this plan is amazing josh allen another amazing plan, backing away from here very slowly. fan 1 that was josh allen. fan 2 mmhm. vo for a limited time get Nfl Sunday Ticket from youtubetv on us. A 449 value. Plus, get a free Samsung Galaxy s23. Only on verizon. Were back and right now were keeping an eye there on long island, new york, we expect an update on the Gilgo Beach Murders investigation at any moment. Looks like theyre setting up. We should hear from several people including the Suffolk County District Attorney and officials from new York State Police as well as the fbi. Our teams monitoring that and will bring you developments as it gets going. And now we have Breaking News to share with you on the economy. July jobs numbers just released this morning showing 187,000 jobs added. Fewer than economists expected, but the Unemployment Rate ticking down slightly to 3. 5 . This marks the 31st straight month of job gains. Lets look at how the markets are reacting this morning, we can see the dow is up about 132 points right now. Joining us to break it all down, nbc News Business and data reporter brian cheung. The numbers were a slight miss, but what do we need to know . They were a slight miss. Lets contextualize it. 187,000 jobs as you mentioned, thats how many were added in the month of july. Thats short of the 200,000 that wall street economists were projecting for the month. It is a bit of a faster pace than the 185,000 jobs we saw added in the month of june. What was notable about the report is that the Unemployment Rate ticked down from 3. 6 in june to 3. 5 in july and thats essentially still hovering near over 50year lows. Where did we see the job gains in the month . We saw it in some of these particular categories, healthcare was the field that saw the largest amount of job gains, but when you look at leisure and hospitality, bars and restaurants, that added 17,000 jobs in the month. Retail trade, jobs at the mall adding about 8. 5,000 jobs, but not all sectors saw gains. We saw professional and business services, white collar jobs, inside the cubicle, contracting by 8,000 jobs. The last point i want to make here this is interesting, wage growth, how much more did people get paid this year to last time last year, 4. 4 , that was the same we saw in terms of pace in june. This is great news, inflation is now at 3 . So it was not always the case that the wage growth was above the level of price inflation, but now youre seeing that, which is certainly welcome news, your pay is rising at a pace that is faster than how much more expensive things are getting at the store. That is certainly good news for americans. Thats great news. Hopefully it will make a difference. Brian cheung, thanks so much. I want to bring in robin farzad, host of full disclosure. We have seen some positive Economic News lately, the fed seems more confident the u. S. Can get inflation under control without recession, the Consumer Price index im being told, forgive me, stay there, well come back. We got to go to this presser with officials in the gilgo beach serial murders. Lets listen. Davis park beach, and approximately 15 years later on april 11th, 2011, additional remains consisting of a skull were discovered at Toby Beach In nassau county. That skull was found following the discovery of the remains and the skull was found on the same day as the remains of thereafter, july 2011, the Suffolk County crime lab linked the two sets of remains via dna analysis found in the vicinity of the park of what was found at toby beach and it was determined that it was the same person. Since 2011, that victim was known by various names including fire island jane doe. Today we are here to announce thats part of the Gilgo Task Force reexamination of all the evidence in the case, we are able to identify her as Karen Vergata who was 34 years old at the time of her disappearance, and i believe we have a picture of miss vergata. I think it is important that we remember and honor not only miss vergata, but all the victims on gilgo beach. She went missing at approximately february 14th, 1996. At the time she lived on West 45th Street in manhattan and believed to be working as an escort at the time of her disappearance. There was no Missing Persons complaint filed at the time of that disappearance. In august of 2022, approximately six months after we formed this Gilgo Task Force, dna profile suitable for genealogical comparison was developed from the remains of Karen Vergata. In september of 2022, the fbi was able to was able via a Genetic Genealogy Review to identify miss vergata as fire island jane doe. In october of 2022, using a swab from a relative of Karen Vergata, we were able to definitively identify her. Prior to disclosing this information, of course, we need to contact all of miss vergatas family members, at or around the same time we were beginning our grand jury confidential investigation into what has been known as the gilgo four. That is the murders of melissa barthelemy, Megan Waterman and amber costello. We decided we were not going to make any comment at this time. Since that, the results of that investigation have become public and we have made the necessary notifications to miss vergatas family, we can make this important announcement now. I just want to thank in particular special agent Lori Jardaigneault from the fbi. She worked in conjunction with our Suffolk County crime lab, don dollar of the Suffolk County crime lab, his team, in coordination with the Suffolk County Police Departments homicide unit. So i want to thank them for in particular for all of their work. Of course, i want to thank our task force members, Suffolk County sheriff earl trulan, Spencer Horne from the fbi, i want to thank the new York State Police Suffolk County Police Department rodney harrison, couldnt make it here, chief rowan is here in his place instead, but i want to thank them for not only their work on this case, but for all their work in the task force going forward. It is important to note that there are no charges at this time. Miss vergatas disappearance was in 1996, 27 years ago. Were going to continue to work this particular case as we did the four investigation. Were going to have no comment on what, if any suspects we developed at this time. This is a confidential investigation so im not going to be taking any questions. Our investigation is continuing and thank you all very much. No questions. If you want to talk about, you know, something regarding the gilgo four, im happy to talk offline to you, but today, this is about this Press Conference is about miss vergata and, you know, that we have been able to identify her and that were continuing our investigation not only with regard to the gilgo four but all of the victims on gilgo. So, thank you, all, very much. We were just listening to officials out there on long island addressing the media and identifying another victim that had been found in the gilgo beach area, a person who they had initially identified as fire island jane doe. We now know the identity of this person, 34yearold Karen Vergata who went missing in 1996. Today, they now have made that identity known. Lets bring in nbc news correspondent ron allen, who has been monitoring all of this for us and following the case. As well as msnbc legal analyst Danny Cevallos. Lets start with ron. Talk about the significance of this development when it comes to the larger case, we have been following very closely there is a suspect tied to four deaths, four victims found on gilgo beach. Right. And all told there are as many as 11 sets of remains in the general area of gilgo beach, some the gilgo beach four, four women were close together. The others were found some distance away. But over the years this has all been seen as one unsolved huge awful mystery. Perhaps connected to one serial killer. This woman was known as also jane doe number seven, i believe. As you reported, she went missing as far back as 1996. The authorities said using advanced dna analysis, which has progressed during the years, theyre now able to identify this woman. She lived in manhattan. She was an escort. Many of the women who were found dead have been described as escorts or sex workers. They say there is no suspect in this particular case. They didnt want to answer questions about it. They described it as a confidential investigation, which is an odd term to use, i would think as theyre trying to solve it. The bottom line is that this case, they have an identity. They have this individual, this woman, Karen Vergata, 34 years old, when she went missing in 1996. So far they have not connected it to the other cases involving a suspect, a man named Rex Heuermann who is 59, architect, who lived not far from the area where the remains were found. Hes been charged with three counts of first degree murder, three counts of Second Degree murder in the deaths of three women. He was arraigned earlier this week. Hes being held without bail. There are a lot of questions about whether he will be connected and charged to in the death of a fourth woman hes been named as a suspect. There is no indication hes connected to any other sets of remains, but this is a very rapidly moving investigation right now. You saw that huge number of investigators and police, fbi, state, local, they poured a tremendous amount of resources into this. And in court the other day, they said they have essentially a mountain of evidence against the suspect. Dna analysis, Something Else theyre trying to develop further. One thing they want to do now is try to get a dna sample from the suspect, from heuermann. The only dna we believe they have is pieces of a pizza crust that he discarded from his lunch, just before he was arrested, that the investigators were able to retrieve from a garbage can in midtown manhattan, another astounding aspects of this investigation in terms of how they connected him. They also have hours and hours of Video Surveillance from his home, his office. You saw the extensive amount of searching that went on at the familys residence. They essentially dug up the backyard, tore up parts of the house, a piece of a bathtub that was removed. The family, i should point out, his Adult Children and his wife, are complaining about the condition that their house was left in, but authorities are saying, well, you can file a complaint if you want, but they are determined to get as much evidence as they can against this individual who they have been looking for, for at least 13 years and perhaps longer if in fact hes connected to this case that may date back as far as 1996. And, so, danny, they have an identity of this jane doe, but theyre saying no comment on a suspect. What is your takeaway . I think the point is now is to identify the suspects, do a Press Conference on who you identify notifying the victims . Yes. And then continue the investigation. They made it very clear that theyre just keeping that separate, the identification of the victims, talking about the technology, igg investigative genealogical, genetic genealogy, like an emerging technology at least in criminal justice. It really is it represents a huge advance from the old traditional str, short tandem repeat, the modern version of this uploads it to a database that people use, for example, to search their genealogical profile and then Law Enforcement creates a family tree. It is a lot more than the old days where you upload it to a database and look for a match. Now you have to do additional investigating, building a family tree, sometimes things like social media. All these different Puzzle Pieces filling in which it comes to the broader investigation into all the deaths and the discovery of up to 11 victims. But who knows. They have for sure tied together three of the victims and they named Rex Heuermann a suspect in that. Charged with those murders and so we have this new Development Today about wanting a dna swab from him. My question to you, danny, is they already said they connected him by dna from the pizza crust. If they have it, why do they need another swab . They always want a swab from the suspect himself, a confirmed swab, dont forget, the Pizza Crust Swab or pizza crust dna lifted, there could be a Defense Argument that, hey, how do you know thats my guy . You say you know it is my guy, but what that will do is create some Bedrock Evidence if you have a swab from the defendant, which is pretty common practice, a lot of times, increasingly so, just to get that swab. That will be sure fire evidence later on, difficult to challenge if you can match that swab you take that you know is from the defendant and match it to something at the scene. It is really just about redundant evidence, belt and suspenders, making sure they have the best possible case if theyre going to proceed against this does he have to give a swab or can he reject them . He does. Theyll get a court order if he does not but they will obtain that swab and they can get it a number of other ways, but ideally through a swab. Danny cevallos and ron allen, thank you. Up next on ana cabrera reports, a new tragedy in the rio grande. Cabrera reports, a new tragedy in the rio grande subway refreshed everything and now theyre slicing their deli meats fresh. Thats why this qb profers the new five meat beast. And this qb profers it. And if we profer it. We know youll profer it too. Are you trying to outspokesperson me . Maybe. I gotta good feeling about this, yeah are you trying to im with it me . I gotta good feeling about this yeah, so lets get it im feeling good vibes im your overly competitive brother. Check. 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So long stinky smells and hello amazing freshness. Discover the new febreze scents today welcome back. Turning to the southern border now and Appeals Court ruled late yesterday to keep a rule in place that really limits asylum. The Biden Administration rule makes it hard for people to get asylum if they havent applied for it before they reach the u. S. That decision comes as crossings along the u. S. Mexico border are starting to tick up again. And a new tragedy putting a heart breaking spotlight on the difficult journey. Two migrants dying in the rio grande and now a dispute over whether one of them was stuck in that controversial floating border wall that texas installed in the river. Julia ainsley joins us from tucson, arizona. Lets start with the tragedy. Two people died in the river. Were the buoys to blame . Reporter well, that is the question and that is what is having mexico spar with the State Of Texas. Just yesterday, we saw mexico and president Lopez Obrador say it was the buoys to blame and theyre not only causing deaths, but messing up the u. S. Mexico relationship, this is not characteristic of their longstanding relationship. And then a sharp fireback from Texas Governor greg abbott who said mexico is flat out wrong and said these people died in different parts of the river and simply one of the bodies drifted into the buoys. Ive been speaking to people in Border Patrol who say even if these people didnt die in the buoys what happened is when they put that barrier there, they put it in the safest part of the river. So migrants are forced to go to the deeper parts, the parts with more of a current and that could lead to increased drownings. So more here, certainly the deaths will become part of the political back and forth. And it is another reason why the Biden Administration is suing the State Of Texas in court because of the border barrier. So youre there at the border, talking to migrants and customs and Border Protection agents in arizona. What are you hearing . Reporter we came here because this is now the busiest sector. They say it is related to what is happening in texas. Because of those new restrictions, a lot of migrants are afraid to come through texas and this is also safer because the Cartel Violence is less in nogales than you would see in matamoros. What is not safer is elements. It is hot here, reaching 110 degrees as a high every day. The mountains are treacherous and remote. We spoke to someone who is responsible for conducting rescues of migrants who are found in these remote areas. Heres what he had to say. We have people who are hydrated, for the most point, who have broken their legs, twisted their ankles, knees, stuff like that. People who are severely dehydrated, on the brink of death. Reporter and the other thing theyre noticing here, families, more families. We saw some of them come across yesterday morning and early hours. Some said they had been sleeping in the mountains and simply turned themselves in because they were too exhausted from the journey. Tucson is a place to watch is at the numbers start to rise and the Biden Administration finds themselves in the legal battle you mentioned in court. Thanks for staying on this story, Julia Ainsley good to see you. New today, two u. S. Navy sailors are behind bars charged with spying for china. The two men were charged separately, one under the espionage act. Each accused of providing u. S. Military secrets to Chinese Government Intelligence Officers. Miguel almaguer has more from Naval Base Ventura county in california. Reporter this is the naval base where one of those accused spies was serving before he was arrested. He faces up to 20 years in prison. The second sailor faces up to life in prison. Authorities say as of right now there is no clear indication they were working together. Two american sailors charged with passing sensitive intelligence to china in exchange for money. The Department Of Justice and fbi announcing their arrests. When a soldier or sailor chooses cash over country, and hands over National Defense information in an ultimate act of betrayal, we have to be ready to act. Reporter a naturalized u. S. Citizen was a sailor on the Amphibious Assault ship the uss essex. Way sent National Defense information to china, including documents, photos, videos, and technical manuals in exchange his Intelligence Officer payed way thousands of dollars. Reporter way has been charged under the espionage act, which carries a life sentence. His attorney entering a not guilty plea on his behalf. Also arrested in a separate case of espionage, 26yearold jao, the Petty Officer working at a naval base in ventura county, california, pleading not guilty in federal court. Officials say he gave nonpublic intel to a chinese Intelligence Officer for almost two years. Passing along operational plans for military exercises, photographs and blueprints of a radar system on a u. S. Military base in okinawa, japan. And details about the navals operations at his home base and on san clemente island. In exchange, they allege a chinese operative paid zhou about 15,000. He chose a path of corruption. Officials say the charges were part of a broader strategy by the u. S. To counter chinas criminal efforts to steal its sensitive information. The scheme alleged here is one more example of the people republic of chinas ongoing and Brazen Campaign to target u. S. Officials with access to sensitive military secrets. Reporter both sailors remain in custody and are expected back in court in the coming weeks. Shortly after that, in federal court, their trials are expected to begin. Back to you. Nbc news reached out to the Chinese Embassy for comment and in a statement to the Wall Street The Embassy said the u. S. Government and media frequently hyped up cases of espionage related to china, adding china firmly opposes the u. S. Sides groundless slander and smear of china. Next on ana cabrera reports, can donald trump still run for president if hes convicted . Big questions ahead of his trial next. Convicted . Big questions ahead of his trial xt trelegy for copd. Birds flyin high, you know how i feel. Breeze driftin on. [coughing]. By, you know how i feel. If youre tired of staring down your copd,. Its a new dawn, its a new day. Stop settling. And im feelin good. Start a new day with trelegy. No oncedaily Copd Medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. With three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours, improves lung function, and helps prevent future flareups. Trelegy wont replace a Rescue Inhaler for sudden breathing problems. Tell your doctor if you have a Heart Condition or high Blood Pressure before taking it. Do not take trelegy more than prescribed. Trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. Call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. Take a stand, and start a new day with trelegy. Ask your doctor about oncedaily trelegy, and save at trelegy. Com welcome back. We still have some months before trial, but the indictments against donald trump have left legal experts, politicians, maybe even you at home uncertain about whats going to happen next. Now, if youre wondering if trump can still run for president while hes facing trial, yes, he can. He can even be president if he ends up being convicted. But then what . Joining us now, criminal Defense Attorney and msnbc legal analyst Danny Cevallos back with us. He can still be president if convicted, danny. This is, okay, a real hypothetical. Lets say convicted and sentenced, did he still be president if hes in prison . The answer is we dont know. Heres what i think happens. First of all, if hes convicted and inaugurated, do you inaugurate him from prison . Do you bring the bible over and he put his hand on it and swears. I dont know how that works. Nobody does. I think the easiest, cleanest answer is the constitution would not allow a president to run the country from prison. The doors would open up either by motion or a pardons himself or if the case is still pending he simply appoints an Attorney General who is favorable to him and will dismiss the entire case. I expect he would be out during the pendency while president and when hes not president , i imagine he would go right back to prison, if the selfpardon doesnt work. We dont know. My mind is blown, just thinking about all that. Lets back up. Youre a Defense Lawyer. Trump has posted on social media, well have fun on the stand, which, of course, begs the question, will he testify. What do you think . He should not testify, but he might think he has to testify if he wants to establish, for example, the advice of counsel defense. Or to just establish his state of mind. I actually really and truly believed that the election was stolen. That would, if he took the stand, go a long way to developing a number of his defenses, that he looked the intent, he relied on his attorneys. As everyone knows, it is a massive risk, even as bill barr is of the opinion that this could be a disaster if he did take the stand. The other thing we have been asking is will there be cameras in the courtroom. Federal court, no cameras is the standard. No case like this has happened before. Federal rule of criminal procedure 53 flat out prohibits this. But in the from 2011 to 2015, the courts had a Pilot Program where they experimented with Video Cameras in civil cases. So, while it is generally true federal courts never allow Video Cameras, they have shown a little weakening on this point in the last decade or so. And strangely enough, those three districts in that Pilot Program including the district of guam kept video in the courtroom after that Pilot Program concluded. Wow. Well, thank you so much. A lot of important questions i know youve been asking, we have all been asking. Good to see you. Happy friday. That does it for us. Have a wonderful weekend. See you back here on monday, same time, same place. Im Ana Cabrera Reporting from new york. Jose diazbalart picks up our coverage right now. Good morning. It is 11 00 a. M. Eastern, 8 00 a. M. Pacific. Im jose diazbalart. Former President Donald Trump pleads not guilty to charges he conspired to overturn the 2020 election. Indicted now in three separate cases, he could face a fourth before the month is out. Were following Economic News this morning, with the latest jobs report telling us about the economy, three days after the u. S. Had its Credit Rating downgraded. At the southern border, the humanitarian crisis intensifies after a body was found inside the floating barrier in the rio grande meant to keep migrants from crossing into the u. S. Plus, two american