appear before a judge, a magistrate judge, to be formally charged for the third time in less than four months, as chris said, and msnbc news has learned three of the officers injured in january 6th will be trying to attend the hearing, although just a handful of members of the public are going to be allowed inside, and just 11 members are reserved for the press. >> you can see the camera shaking because we're all moving in real time here, trying to give you as much access to see what's happening, but even before he appears in court, trump has been fighting these charges on social media. he's been raising money off of it, his fund-raising committee has fired off at least eight solicitations for donations since this indictment was handed up on tuesday. he also posted a message to his supporters saying it's a great honor to be arrested because i'm being arrested for you. now, technically, he's not going to be arrested. he's going to go in and surrender to authorities, but let's discuss what's happening with msnbc's yasmin vossoughian, tom winter, andrew weissmann, and former member of robert mueller's special investigation into russian interference in 2016, and also joining us is tim hafey, former lead investigator for the january 6th select committee. let's go to yasmin and get the lay of the land. what's happening outside the courthouse right now? >> reporter: a real moment, if you think about it. a former president of the united states, usually landing at andrews air force base, taking marine one. instead, landing at reagan national, taking that ten-minute drive to the courthouse where he'll be arraigned here at the courthouse behind me. security is in place as we have been talking about all day. inside, the u.s. marshals in charge of security. secret service navigating his travels from the airport to the courthouse, along with his entry into the courthouse, which we believe he'll enter on c street into the garage and take a private elevator right up to that courtroom in which he'll then be arraigned. we have park police along with metro police as well outside of the courthouse. we have seen a gaggle of protesters here and there. i would say two dozen, three dozen at the most. the presence increasing as we kind of march towards the 4:00 p.m. hour in which the former president will in fact be arraigned. as we're watching his motorcade leaving reagan national, making that short drive to the courthouse here, arriving here really within the next ten minutes or so. >> so tom, let's talk a little bit about inside that courthouse. first of all, as andrea mentioned, there are only 11 seats for the press. msnbc is fortunate, garrett haake is one of them. i believe there's also an overflow room. the difference is my understanding, correct me if i'm wrong, tom, they're going to be able to have electronic devices in there. so in real time, as they're watching the proceedings on television, essentially, we'll be able to get some idea of what's happening inside that courtroom. give us a sense, big picture, of how everything is going to unfold from the minute trump walks into that courthouse. >> that's right, chris, and to be clear, the overflow room, we will be able to get those notes from our team inside of there, including ken dilanian and daniel barnes. ken, our chief justice correspondent, who has covered this so closely, and we'll get those to our email and relay them right away. as far as the process for the former president, it's like anybody else in this country who is charged with a federal crime. the idea here is to have a first appearance in the judicial system to notify somebody that they have in fact been indicted. either on a complaint or an indictment. then from there, to advise them of their rights. to advise them they have a right to an attorney. do they have an attorney? does an attorney need to be appointed? i understand that kind of sounds kind of silly given the amount of attention brought to this case and this specific indictment, but it is a part of the judicial process. the president will be advised of his rights. then from there, there will be an opportunity to read in the indictment that is typically waived. so sometimes the judge says, would you like to have the charges read back to you or the indictment read back to you? usually that's waived. most defense attorneys and defendants don't want to get into all of that or hear all of that. and from there they can move to what's called a rule ten hearing, an arraignment. that's the opportunity where the former president or his legal counsel will be asked whether or not he's guilty or not guilty of the charges against him, and as we well know from trump's social media posts and everything he's said about this investigation, the incidents leading up to the january 6th and beyond, he'll most certainly plead not guilty. and after that, it's kind of over. sometimes judges will ask questions as it pertains to bail. we don't expect there to be any bail package in this case. in florida in the mar-a-lago classified documents case, he was released on his own recognizance. there's no financial instrument, nothing to keep him here. federal prosecutors said he's not a flight risk. as we're seeing from these images we have been watching since the former president landed at reagan national airport and on his way here, he's under secret service protection. the u.s. government in some way always knows where donald trump is, so i don't think that's of particular concern as far as the court system is concerned. so that's what may come up. then from there, the trial process starts. he'll be able to leave the courthouse, be able to head back, presumably, to bedminster where he's been staying, and he'll be able to go back to his life. then the defense on these extraordinary and historic charges for him begins in earnest. >> and tom, we have been watching as you have been talking. the president's motorcade leaving the airport. this is a pool camera crew, so one network camera inside one of those suvs that you saw at the airport. they flew here with him. they're getting into the -- they have got a camera obviously in the front seat looking through the windshield. looks like the gw parkway, he's going to be taking this highway to one of the bridges crossing over into the city and he'll be blocks away. andrew, this is a city that has witnessed every harrowing moment from the january 6th attack, the trump team plans to argue that they can't get a fair trial here. so we have talked about the voir dire, the jury being selected, the judge. what are your thoughts as he heads towards his arraignment where none of that will take place today. but in moving towards trial here, that will be the defense arguments. >> well, let me just quickly add a couple things to what tom said with respect to what to expect. these are things that could happen. there may be standard conditions of release that are read to the former president with respect to who he can contact, locations he can go to and not go to, and there are standard rules in d.c. with respect to things you can say that could prejudice a potential juror. so i'll be listening for whether the magistrate does that. the other thing that can happen is that is standard practice in the d.c. u.s. attorney's office, in other words, in that courthouse for the government to turn over discovery at the time of arraignment. so i wouldn't be surprised to hear something from the government about the status of discovery. we did hear something like that in the mar-a-lago case. and then finally, we should be listening to whether the magistrate advises the parties as to the date on which the assigned judge in the case, judge chutkan, wants the parties to appear in front of her. i wouldn't be surprised if that's a relatively short date. that's a way for the court, the assigned judge, to notify people when she wants to see them. >> so donald trump should be arriving at that courthouse in a matter of minutes. we're learning more about the courtroom where this arraignment will take place. we learned it is very small. four rows of pews which is one of the reasons there are so few members of the media that are allowed in. yes, our garrett haake was selected by lottery to be one of the 11 journalists to be able to participate inside the courtroom in observing and taking notes that will eventually be working their way out to us. outside the courtroom, we have seen all those big overhead shots of the media that actually started lining up last night in preparation for this historic day. and aaron gilchrist, nbc news correspondent, is outside the courthouse. and is joining us now, again, aaron we know there's a ton of security. can you describe what's happening where you are? >> big shift in the security posture in the last couple minutes here. we'll point out that you can see d.c. police have now shut down third street here that runs alongside the courthouse. i don't know if we can point down the street toward the back of the courthouse. we're starting to see more officers and vehicles move to that area as well. the former president has left reagan national airport, only about ten minutes away from where we are at the courthouse. the interstate that connects virginia, that part of northern virginia, to d.c. here runs along this street, under the street if you will, and then i expect that the former president will come off the highway there and swing around to the back side of the courthouse and go into the parking garage. we won't be able to see him. as we watched the d.c. police posture change, we also noted there are these trucks, these plows set up along the street as additional security measures, not something that's atypical here in the district of columbia as they're used to having high-profile people move around the city, used to having to set up barricades in different instances to protect facilities from any eventuality. it's worth noting that even as the numbers have grown out here, both the law enforcement presence, local and federal, we have also seen people, the number of people coming to see grow as well. a lot of them tourists, some who have come directly to be a part of this day. several supporters with signs and flags. also a lot of people who have been carrying signs that say things like "lock him up." those who don't support the former president. we had people with megaphones making statements. we're just a block off the national mall, and i think we can sort of swing around and show you the crowd that's formed on this corner. a lot of these people obviously are media, but some of them are folks hoping to get a glimpse of the former president as he comes into this area. i'll note that the federal protective service, which is the federal law enforcement agency that protects federal buildings is now closing off the barricades in this area, pushing us out of the way here. this is the sidewalk that we had been using to access the doors, the only door that's still open this afternoon to get inside the courthouse for people who have business here and members of the media who have been going in for the arraignment hearing today. this is now being closed off. as we noted, the former president's arraignment set to happen in about 45 minutes or so and the security lockdown is intensifying here. back to you. >> we're about five minutes out, we expect, given the drive time for donald trump to arrive there at the courthouse where you're seeing aaron gilchrist. we're also getting new information from the pool that was traveling with former president trump about who is with him. they include elena hobba, the general counsel and spokesperson for save america pac. she's someone you have probably seen, a spokesperson on many of the cable and morning programs. but also a number of talk campaign advisers are with him. jason miller, steven chung, his political and legal adviser, boris epshteyn. we're also learning that in addition to john lauro, someone you probably have seen repeatedly speaking on behalf of donald trump as his lawyer, todd blanch will be in the courtroom as well. that courtroom, tim, is very close. really just blocks away from where the insurrection happened. how important do you think it is that the trial take place in washington, d.c., even though the charges don't involve directly the insurrection, don't involve incitement? it is what for many people is represented in this indictment. what do you make of the symbolism of this and the moment we're seeing right now? >> look, i don't know that it's symbolism, but it's sort of standard prosecutorial practice to bring a case in the jurisdiction in which the charged events occur. that's why the mar-a-lago case is charged in florida. and this case is charged in washington. it does happen to be a building just literally steps away from where some of the worst violence occurred, the p-circle, the initial breach point where the proud boys pushed through bicycle racks, concussing officer edwards and streaming up to the capitol, is literally right across the street and a block away from the entrance to the courthouse where your correspondent was just standing. there's no doubt the symbolism resonates, but jack smith isn't thinking about any of that. he's thinking about proving his case in the jurisdiction in which it occurred, getting 12 people in the box who are going to adjudicate these facts. it's fact that matter more than where it is or who the jurors are or anything. and i think jack smith seems as if from the things in the indictment, he's confident he has those facts. >> and as we see the motorcade making that turn there coming from the highway to the back of the courthouse where they'll go in underground, you were so much a part of the january 6th committee hearings which was really a road map for a lot that's in this indictment, even though they didn't charge all of the things recommended. there was one incitement specifically that they did not charge on, but three out of the four came at least largely from a lot of the witnesses and they were all republicans and all members of his inner circle or those who had been participating in the government. >> yeah, exactly right. when i read the indictment, it sounded a lot like vice chair cheney's opening statement in our first hearing back in june of last year. she outlined this was an intentional multi-part plan that was designed to disrupt the joint session and that's precisely what jack smith has charged. each of the prongs that she outlined are described in the indictment. so i do feel as if the committee's work was sort of a foundation, provided a lot of evidence to the public and ultimately was turned over to the special counsel, that i think we'll see play out in this trial. >> andrew, trump's allies have really at least started to make their defense being the former president is being indicted for political free speech. there was no crime. at what point do you believe the former president's free speech crossed the line from being constitutionally protected to being in furtherance of a crime? >> great question. the indictment actually previews that by saying there would have been nothing wrong with his simply speaking about whether he won or lost, and even saying something that was false to the american public. this is the line, when you either take action in furtherance of something you know to be false or cause other people to, so the different schemes are wanting the department of justice to falsely say that there was fraud in the election, when you go to the states and you threaten criminal prosecution of the secretary of state of georgia, to change the votes, when you lie to the vice president of the united states about his powers and say that he's being too honest when he doesn't exceed to your wishes to violate the constitution. all of that is crossing the line. simply speaking doesn't mean that it's protected and not criminal any more than if you were to order the murder of somebody as a mob boss. so this is one where i think the people who are sort of going down the first amendment road, that is just the wrong attack. it may be something that works in a court of public opinion. it's not anything i think we'll even hear in court that's going to have any traction whatsoever at any level, whether we're talking about the district judge, the circuit, or the supreme court. >> of course, what is happening here in washington, d.c. is also a waiting game for donald trump and his lawyers because we're waiting to see what will happen in fulton county, georgia, where fanna willis said just a couple days ago when the indictment came down that she hadn't seen it, that she and jack smith were not coordinating. now for the first time, sheicize she has had a chance to look at this indictment. she said just a couple days ago when she was asked about it, she didn't think jack smith would even be able to recognize her or vice versa, but now she says it will not impact any of the charges or her charging decisions in georgia. here's what she had to say, her first comments. >> there's some people who say there are already now three indictments against the former president. they argue that even if there were crimes committed here in fulton county, a fourth indictment isn't worth all the work that would come with it. to people who say that, what would you say? >> that i took an oath, and that the oath requires i follow the law, that if someone broke the law in fulton county, georgia, that i have a duty to prosecute. that's exactly what i plan to do. >> and just as a reminder, fani willis has said that she expects to make her decision known within probably the next week or two. we already know people who would normally be working in the fulton county courthouse have been told to stay home, and her exact quote from earlier this week, in all honesty, if jack smith were standing next to me, i'm not sure i would know who he was. my guess is he probably can't pronounce my name correctly. what we do know is whatever happens there, the coming together of all of these different cases, andrea mitchell, the timing with the election coming up, as we have said repeatedly before e. jean carroll's case, scheduled to be exactly on the day of the iowa caucuses, the start of the primary process, and here we are today with what is the most serious and consequential of all of these cases. >> absolutely. but still, we believe from what she's said previously, what fani willis has said previously, it's going to be within the next two weeks that she actually launches that georgia case, which is almost a subset of this. there's a lot of cross witnesses there. >> georgia is a big part of this indictment along with six other states where there was the false electors scheme that jack smith and his team outlined in detail. >> one of those, in fact the first to get in on july 18th, with the false electors lawsuit, a lawsuit against them, and we talked to dana nessel there, their attorney general, is michigan, and here with us is former michigan republican congressman fred upton, one of the few republicans in the house to vote to impeach donald trump for his actions on that horrific day in u.s. history. the second impeachment. congressman, 939 days since the attack on the capitol now. the former president is facing charges for his attempts to cling on to power, not to incite the riot that day, but to actually use violence in a number of instances, not just on january 6th, along with his coconspirators to try to advance his scheme or conspiracy, the alleged conspiracies in seven states and other places to try to hold on to power even though they say he knew that he had lost the election. what are your reflections on this moment? >> well, you know, of course, i was there on january 6th. and you'll remember that the president, president trump, shortly after january 6th, said publicly that he had done everything in his words totally appropriate. that was the defining moment for me when i knew i needed to vote to impeach him. but you know, we saw it here in michigan, they had fake electors. they tried to confuse the issue to send them to the vice president to count. we saw a number of other states that followed that same road. you know, it's not the first amendment that we're talking about here. it's the actual conspiracy where he actually tried to change the outcome of the counting of the election from the electors on january 6th. mike pence did the right job, a ceremonial job, but the evidence i read through the indictment, i'm not a lawyer, but it's all right there in a number of states in terms of what he was plotting to do, far more than just sorry, i won, started the big lie. they really did have conspiracy to stop the counting of the vote and deny joe biden his rightful place as the president of the united states. >> congressman, ana cabrera here. many of your former colleagues feared for their lives on january 6th. >> yeah. me, too. >> you and them. exactly. and you came out, you literally stuck your neck out there politically, yet we're not seeing a lot of that amongst your colleagues, even after this indictment. they're still backing the former president. what's your message to them today? >> well, it's not only to my former colleagues but it's also those within the white house circle itself. i watched bill barr last night, of course, i read his book when it came out. you know, i read that there are some 40 members i guess of his former cabinet, majority -- a far majority of those are saying he's not fit to serve. those are my words, not exactly the way that the question was answered. but who are they? their names, other than a couple of them, haven't really come forward. they're still hiding behind what they saw first-hand. and you know, let's face it. people are scared of a primary. you know, i look at my own michigan congressional republican delegation. i'm good friends with all of them, but about two weeks ago, after a couple of these indictments now, they came out and endorsed him in the primary. i saw earlier this week a number of former colleagues in ohio came out and endorsed him. you look at florida where you would think that governor desantis would have a good grip in terms of his own congressional delegation. all but two or three have endorsed trump. tare scared to death of a primary and that grassroots that may defeat them and until they get to the filing deadline, which guess what, isn't until mid next year for a number of states, michigan i think it's in april of next year, they don't want to poke the bear. they simply don't want to add the prospect of losing a primary, and frankly from the republican perspective, in terms of the overall majority, maybe even lose the house if you have some of these other folks actually beat them. so it's -- i understand how difficult the situation is, but at some point, you have to have a compass. you have to look where that arrow is going, and decide the constitution plays a little bit larger role than politics. >> congressman, chris jansing here, if you believe the polls, donald trump doesn't even have a challenger. everyone else is so far behind. the latest poll has him in a hypothetical matchup against joe biden absolutely tied. i want to get your take on something catherine miller wrote in "the new york times." quote, nobody outside his supporters wants to talk about the eventuality, not probable, but definitely not impossible, that donald trump will be re-elected. his former cabinet secretaries don't, the people, the foreign ministers and former national security officials at the aspen security forum don't, and the closer you get to presidential campaign events, elections can become a kind of dreamscape, a contained universe where meta attacks are signaled yet nothing seems that weird about mr. trump's dominance. do you see any way for his opponents to challenge him in a way that sticks? >> you know, he's got a lot of teflon. his first name is don. i always call him mr. president. but you know, with every indictment, he gets stronger. he's taking all the oxygen out of the balloon, and no one haa chance. we have 12 people running against him. i am somehow on his email list. i get about -- i have gotten five in the last ten minutes. email, i get at least a dozen emails a day where he's just trouncing the opposition. he's up 50 points in tennessee, got a new poll in new hampshire i saw today, he's up like 30 points there. got 100,000 trump supporters in iowa. they're going to turn out for the caucus when they meet in january. it's a run-away. here in michigan, the whole congressional delegation is for him. it seems like the others don't have a prayer. almost all of them are in single digits and he's at 47. when you look at the national polls and rasmussen has had trump beating biden since june. for the last two months. i saw some polling numbers, i am part of the no labels organization as a volunteer. we saw a number at the end of march, early april, that yes, trump beats biden one-on-one. so it's not out of the picture at all, even with this indictment and maybe another one coming down in georgia, that he doesn't continue to get stronger. i saw an email just in the last few minutes from kari lake, demanding all the other folks, all the other republicans running against him drop out so they can rally and circle the wagons. let's focus all of our efforts on making sure that the republicans take the white house. and you know, at this point, because trump has an almost insurmountable lead, it's time for you to surrender. >> fred upton, we appreciate you taking the time to be with us today. we do expect that as former president donald trump walks into the courtroom here, he could be feet away from three officers who risked their lives to defend the capitol. they are metropolitan police officer daniel hodges, the former capitol police sarge wnt aquilina garnell, and harry dunn. all have said they want to be there, bear witness to trump's arraignment. you're going to remember how powerful it was. we want to remind you, when they publicly shared their accounts of the physical and emotional trauma they endured. >> i was effectively defenseless and gradually sustaining injury from the increasing pressure of the mob. directly in front of me a man seized the opportunity of my vulnerability and grabbed the front of my gas mask and used it to beat my head against the door. i knew i couldn't sustain much more damage. at best, i would collapse and be a liability to my colleagues. at worst, dragged down into the crowd and lynched. unable to move or signal the officers behind me, i did the only thing i could do and screamed for help. >> my rationale out there, we can't let these people in no matter what. even if it costs my life. >> people need to understand the severity and the magnitude of the event that was happening that day. we were all fighting for our lives. >> i do my best to keep my politics out of my job. in this circumstance, i responded, i voted for joe biden. does my vote not count? am i nobody? that prompted a torrent of racial epithets in the days following the attempted insurrection, other black officers shared with my their own stories of racial abuse on january 6th. it was so overwhelming and so disheartening and disappointing. >> daniel hodges and harry dunn are still active duty. one officer has taken early retirement, as have so many fellow officers because of the stress of january 6th. i talked about that and the mental stress that continues, with daniel hodges, with officer hodges, yesterday. for his reaction to this indictment and the charges and what was going to happen today. >> i trust jack smith and his team. i'm grateful for them for getting us to this point and getting the indictment out there. i know it's been a long time coming, but in so many ways it's just the beginning. there hasn't been a day that has gone by that i haven't thought about it. partially because i pay attention to the news and partially just how burned into my memory it is. the trial is going to bring some of that up for people. but it's necessary. it's part of the process that we need to have happen in order for accountability. >> accountability, that's a word i heard as well from a couple of the officers that we just heard from in that clip back on the january 6th committee's testimony. i spoke with officer harry dunn, and he told me that jack smith's words through this indictment and when he made his few remarks after making the indictment public, he said it felt like everything done in the search for accountability finally wasn't in vain. but he doesn't want to get ahead of himself, because quote, a indictment still has to be met with a verdict of guilty for him to feel true justice has been served. i also spoke with a former d.c. officer who was severely injured that day, officer michael fanone, former officer now, he suffered a heart attack. he had a traumatic brain injury. he's been one of the more outspoken ones. he has taken time for himself right now. when i asked what were you doing, how did you learn of this indictment? he said i was actually on a ride at disneyland, i'm there with my family, on the pirates of the caribbean ride, so he plans to spend time with them and soak this up. what he said was, learning of this indictment was like taking a load off, that there was something cathartic with just knowing it had come to this point in the search for accountability and to make true that old adage that no one is above the law. >> there are literally millions of people who have felt traumatized in one way or another. of course, the people who were there. we all know people who were there. there were staffers who i talked to, young staffers who went there with very idealized hopes for what it could mean to work in that building. anybody who has walked in the building can feel the history, can feel the power. they were traumatized. they want accountability, but there are also millions of americans who feel that our democracy was attacked, the very foundation of our constitution was attacked, and this is a sense for them to potentially get some accountability, to hear some of the things that really happened in the days leading up to this. and ultimately, as we're seeing again, just a few blocks from where we are, it will happen there, and there will be 12 jurors who will make that ultimate decision. >> in talking to officer hodges yesterday, it really came back to me that every time we play the tape, i asked him before we played the tape of him under attack, literally having his head crushed, and screaming in pain, and he said no, play it. he wanted it to be seen. and he said it does trigger something for all of them. there were a number of suicides, other deaths connected to what was experienced that day and the days after. officer sicknick, of course, his been memorialized and commemorated, and his family, but as you were just talking about the young people as well and the staffers, three officers we can report were not in the courtroom itself, they're in the overflow room among some of the media. they wanted to be there. they attended every one of the january 6th hearings which we were all carrying live. they were also in the front row. the other people who should be thought of today, and as this trial progresses, are the cafeteria workers and the other clean-up staff on the hill who had to, as nancy pelosi was making a point to lawrence just last night, had to clean up afterwards. the young interns, the idealistic staffers who came here and were hiding under desks for hours. she said, you know, she had her security. she was not worried about her life. she was worried about mike pence's, as you saw in that film done by her daughter, alexandra. but she, because of the crowd, the mob, and he was vulnerable as he was trying to get to a safe place. she said she wasn't worried about herself, but she was worried about the young people who for hours and hours were hearing the banging outside on the doors, the doorway down the hall we were all watching as these people were banging and banging and shouting nancy, nancy, and did get into her outer office. so all of that is part and parcel of the experience certainly here in washington, and to play devil's advocate, that's exactly what donald trump and his lawyers will be saying had they get to trial. this is too raw, too close to where it actually happened. then the counterargument will be, in this country, a fair trial can be held anywhere. we're seeing whether or not a fair trial can be held in florida in his backyard. >> and that millions of americans may not have been there but they watched it play out live. >> today is an emotional day for a lot of people. as donald trump will face a judge and hear the charges that he's facing. and he will enter a plea. we expect him to plead not guilty. we're going to squeeze in a quick break before all that happens. former president donald trump is now in the courthouse. you're watching special coverage of the indictment of donald trump on msnbc. and proferred by this football pro who actually uses her feet. and if we profer it, we know you'll prefer it too. i use my feet. have you seen me scramble? for people who are a little intense about hydration. neutrogena® hydro boost lightweight. fragrance-free. 48-hour hydration. for that healthy skin glow. neutrogena®. for people with skin. somebody would ask her something and she would just walk right past them. she didn't know they were talking to her. i just could not hear. i was hesitant to get the hearing aids because of my short hair. but nobody even sees them. our nearly invisible hearing aids are just one reason we've been the brand leader for over 75 years. when i finally could hear for the first time, i started crying. i could hear everything. call 1-800-miracle and schedule your free hearing evaluation today. in just 20 minutes, donald trump, the former president of the united states, current front-runner for the republican nomination for president of the united states, will go before a magistrate judge inside of the federal district courthouse here in washington, d.c. he will face four charges, they are as they are laid out in this indictment, conspiracy to defraud the united states. conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding. obstruction of and attempting to obstruct an official proceeding. and conspiracy against rights. and the introduction that is laid out by jack smith, it's a summary of the charges against donald trump. despite having lost the defendant was determined to remain in power. so for more than two months following election day on november 3rd, 2020, the defendant spread lies that there had been an outcome determinative fraud in the lection and he won. these claims were false and the defendant knew they were false. that is what donald trump is facing today. let's bring back our panel. yasmin, andrew, aaron, tim, also with us, jonathan lemire, politico's white house bureau chief and host of msnbc's way too early, and neal katyal, former u.s. acting solicitor general. what for you, neal, is the headline as you watch what is unfolding inside that district courthouse today? >> well, this is a very solemn moment. this process, what donald trump is going to go through, is called arraignment. it traces back to the 14th century. it's reflected in our legal treatises of the founding, and indeed in our sixth amendment, which guaranteed a criminal defendant the right to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation against him. so this is going to be a very simple, straightforward proceeding. donald trump is actually something of an expert at the arraignment process at this point in time. so he knows how to go through these motions. he's been to more courthouses in the last four months than most lawyers have. so i don't expect any news per se to come out of the hearing itself. but it's obviously a moment of enormous gravity and significance. i mean, donald trump was just down the street on pennsylvania avenue earlier as the president of the united states. now he's moved 16 blocks east and he's a criminal defendant in the most high-profile criminal case maybe perhaps in the united states history. >> and he's close to the capitol where, neal, he said to the group gathered, the crowd at the ellipse, that he was going to lead them, and he was going to join them at the capitol, and of course, secret service didn't let him do that. there was plenty of testimony at the january 6th hearings that he was angry about that from cassidy hutchinson and others, that he wanted to go, but instead, went back to the white house and watched in the room just right off the oval office and watched this all unfold. and for many hours resisted efforts to or arguments from everyone including his own daughter to do something. >> so glad that you mentioned that because that also goes to one of trump's new defenses that his attorneys have been floating yesterday and today, which is this trial should be moved. trump says it should be in west virginia where they're politically more sympathetic to him, but our constitution says the place to try a crime is the place in which the crime occurred, not somewhere where you have, like, better political support or something like that. that is a nonstarter of an argument. trump's argument is, well, the jury is biased against me in d.c. we can't have a fair trial. that's the exact same argument we went through when i was special prosecutor in the george floyd murder. they said you can't try this in minnesota. it was so incendiary and so on. and we rejected the court's properly rejected that argument because everywhere around the country has pretrial publicity about the george floyd case or about this case. and that alone is never a reason to move a trial. so i expect this new defense of donald trump to go nowhere, but i think what you're pointing out, this is right next to the scene of the crime. it's important both emotionally and also legally because that's why the trial is occurring in this courthouse. that's why donald trump is being arraigned in this courthouse, not in florida, not in west virginia. nowhere else. that's the constitution that our founders gave us. >> jonathan, let's just talk about some of the politics at play here. again, we're talking about a former president. and somebody who is running to be president again. and is the current front-runner for the gop nomination. one of his allies told nbc, and i quote here, politically, it is way better for trump to have three or four indictments instead of one. when it's one, all the focus is on the details of the single case. when there are multiple, the specific details get lost to the wider narrative. they added, it makes it way easier to make the case it's a witch hunt when it's more than one case. i wonder what you make of that. >> that's certainly an optimistic spin there from the trump camp, but there's an element of perhaps truth to it because we saw that in his 2016 campaign and during his time in office, where he would spew out so many headlines. it would be hard to keep track. it was a fire hose, sometimes a fire hose of falsehoods, for the average viewer who doesn't pay as much attention as everyone watching at this very moment, it was hard to keep track and easy to write off. we're also seeing one step beyond that from trump and his team, the what aboutisms in full force, trying to make the argument about hunter biden. one of trump's lawyers is outside the courthouse right now in washington doing interviews about hunter biden, not about what's happening inside. they're trying to put forward his narrative here, this smoke screen that maybe viewers will tune out or say maybe this is something rigged against him and won't engage in the real facts of the case. to this point, there's no doubt these indictments have only helped trump in the republican primary. his poll numbers have gone up. he's consolidated support. most of his opponents are rallying to his defense. it will likely be a very different story in a general election. yes, polls suggest a very tight race between trump and president biden, but it's hard to imagine those independents, though swing voters who often decide elections, it's hard to imagine too many of them finding these multiple indictments to be a reason to vote for donald trump. >> andrew weissmann, ty cobb, who as you well know was a lawyer for trump during the mueller investigation, has been blunt about these charges after looking at them. he said pretty simply, he's toast. i don't know anyone who works in the legal system who off thinks that something is a slam dunk, but can you give us an overview of the strength of this case, the challenges for this case, and as you see it, the timeline for this case? >> sure. well, i think the key here is the timeline for both of the federal cases. i say that because the state cases will go forward and will exist no matter what, no matter what happens in the general election. the next president, if it is president trump again or an ally, they cannot legally affect a state case, either the one in manhattan that is existing or the one we anticipate in georgia. but the two federal cases could go away with the wave of a hand. the next president could just tell the department of justice to drop the cases no matter where they are in the process. so those two federal cases, whether they go to trial before the general election, so that the public can see the evidence and weigh for themselves and have the benefit of that trial one way or the other, whatever the verdict is, is something that's going to really play, sort of impress itself on both of the federal judges. i think there's nobody who looks at the alleged facts in either of the florida case or the d.c. case says that this is going to be an easy case for the former president to defend. there are just too many sources of evidence. this is one where i think any defense lawyer looking at this, looking for ways out, is going to realize that the best defense is really in the political arena, not in a court of law where facts and law still matter. >> and to that point, neal katyal, the president has played this, the former predhas played this expertly in the political arena. fund-raising off of it and getting on social media and doing his rallies. and how will people really understand what's going on in that courtroom because our media are so niched and divided and the way people are getting their information is so limited now in perspectives? it's up to one man, chief justice roberts, who has a very decided view against cameras in the courtroom. i know it's not at all a precedent in any federal courtroom, but couldn't you make the argument that this case should be televised? >> 100%. so donald trump is a master at sowing disinformation, and this is, of course, the most important trial of our lifetimes and i think all americans have a right to see it first hand for themselves. i have a piece coming out in "the washington post" in just a couple hours making >> guys, with the special counsel feet away we cannot reiterate as we think back to a half years as we marched on the capital and spoke with protesters walking on constitution avenue. and here we are to a half years later, a full circle moment for so many americans as we are watching this play out. >> donald trump should have happened booked and fingerprinted he is expected to be arraigned. there is a basic thing that happens. the judge will tell him what the charges are. he will have an opportunity to say how he will plead. we expect him to plead not guilty. what might go on? what are the possibilities inside the courtroom? >> defendants almost never plead guilty at arraignment. all that happens are administrative tasks. potentially setting and next date. i think it will be interesting how fast this goes. i have been struck by what i'm hearing from the presidents council. there was a case a few years ago where senator ted stevens was charged. he wanted to speak at trial. he didn't file any motions or ask any delays. he has a right within 70 days of arraignment. he took advantage of that right and he was acquitted just before an election. he believed strongly in his innocence. it sounds to me like the former president is going to delay and try to make this case as late as possible. jack smith conversely will try to go fast. that is telling. you can imagine an defendant wanting to go fast and have his day in court. there will not be a trial date set at arraignment. there may be some discussion of discovery. there won't be any discussion of bond. he's already on bond in florida and he will have the same here. there's not a lot of drama, it is significant, but it is not very dramatic and we won't learn anything new about the case. >> as the former president sat in the courtroom with his hands folded, looking downward. we just have about a minute or so left, phyllis and on what the crowd is saying were doing. >> the folks gathered here on the streets obviously know something is going on. we've seen a lot more people mixed in with the media. you can see folks standing around, summer holding signs up. supporters of the former president. across the street you can see where the police department have blocked the road and block people from walking and driving and riding through the area. if you more five, something lock him up. the folks who are here because they want to see that outcome. a lot of people on this side of the street who are supportive to happen chanting lock up president biden as opposed to former president trump. >> thanks to you and the panel. this we understand from inside, the former president is inside and looking after the public section of the courtroom. he's also talking to his defense lawyers. it is just so important for us all to emphasize the gravity of this moment and while it is not the first indictment it is arguably the most important. >> just six weeks after his arraignment on additional charges we watched him walk off the plane. we have seen that hundreds of times before you are the blue sue, the red tide, very much donald trump. yet again never for anything like this. >> we have all covered stories in our career, this is a story unlike any other i was talking to my elementary age kids this week who, as i read the indictment on our kitchen table, they asked questions about all of that. it is one that we will be talking about as part of the history books moving forward. >> that does it for us. thank you all so much for joining us these last hours on msnbc special coverage. the special coverage of the arraignment of donald trump kicks off right now. >> andrea, thank you so much. covering this unfolding new story thanks all of you at home for joining us. we know you have literally every choice in the world as to where to watch this american history unfolding. it makes us all the more grateful that you are here with us. it is just ahead of 4:00 p.m. all eyes are on the federal courthouse in washington dc were former president donald trump is inside the courtroom where he is scheduled to be arraigned moments from now on four felony charges for trying to overturn the results of the 2020 election. the allegations as fundamental as it gets about the nature of our country. the allegation if he attempted to stay in power after he was voted out by the people. i am rachel maddow joined here in studio for this special coverage by my beloved colleagues. i should tell you, you are missing our dear friend as nicole wallace, as are we. you are used to seeing her at this hour. she is on vacation. we have all been texting with her mercilessly for having chosen this week of all weeks to be off. she will be back once her vacation is done. this afternoon we see the former president's motorcade arrived at the dc federal courthouse. he left his golf club in bedminster, new jersey, and went to the international airport and then motorcade it to the dc federal courthouse. there are no cameras allowed inside of the courthouse, true of all federal courts. we know from our reporters inside the trunk as well as special counsel jack smith and his team are now inside of the courtroom. we know that before he entered the courtroom logistically he was expected to be escorted by federal marshals to the basement. we expect he had his prints taken digitally. they do a digital scan up fingerprints. this is the second time in two months that he has been arrested and fingerprinted. there is not expected to be a mug shot taken just as there was no mug shot taken at his last federal arraignment

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