daily." i am chuck todd. for decades republicans loudly pushed back the right to an abortion, and now that the supreme court seems poised to deliver on the promise republicans made for decades to overturn roe v. wade, republican lawmakers are changing the conversation, and it's the issue could complicate their plans to take back congress this november. take a look at what we have already seen from republicans since the court's draft alito opinion leaks. one man running for the senate went out of his way to let people know the matter is settled law no matter what the court does. translation, he doesn't want to have a debate about abortion rights in the state of nevada, where a large majority are in favor of it. and thune says he doesn't know if abortion is a party issue. and you have the nrsc, which is the gop senate campaign arm, and they want statements to be put out that carefully trend around the issue. pushing a 15-week ban could be popular when coupled with hitting democrats on their position on the issue, and the problem is these kinds of political messages will run into a conflicting reality. that all made sense when roe v. wade was law of the land, and now 13 consecutive states will ban all abortion with little or no exception, and it's not about 15 weeks, but it's not legal, and people don't know it's six weeks whether they know they are pregnant or not. michigan and wisconsin, they have laws so old that are on the books that ban abortion completely, and those would become automatic law should roe v. wade go away. and there's a bill that would classify abortion as homicide that would allow prosecutors to charge abortion patients. it's simply going to be about whether abortion is legal or illegal for millions of americans, and it's a debate republicans are signaling loudly right now that they want the avoid. joining me now is our capitol hill correspondent, ali vitali, and charlie sikes, and also a msnbc contributor, and also with us, "the washington post" caroline kitchener, a politics reporter that focuses on reproductive rights. ali, let me start with you, you have been on the front lines of chasing republicans who, let's admit it, it's hard to find many elected republicans that want to talk about alito's opinion, and not many want to celebrate it, and you would think for pushing for judges that would overturn roe v. wade, there would be a celebratory atmosphere but i have not seen it? >> yeah, i have not seen it either. it seems like the theory of overturning roe v. wade was better for republicans than seeing it settled by the supreme court, which looks like we are looking towards in a matter of weeks. as we have been asking them here on the hill, and we have, whether or not they would push forward their own kinds of codifications at the federal level once this decision comes down from the supreme court, the ways they have engaged with that question have been fascinated, and in many cases they sidestepped it and just focused on the leak, and kevin kramer said at one point he imagined pro life activist would push for federal restrictions on this. that's not him saying that republicans are going to move forward on this quickly. there doesn't seem like there's an appetite for it, and i would adjust as the reality check for democrats trying to protect access to abortion, republicans would run into the same number issues likely because they will not have 60 votes even if they take the senate in 2022, and the numbers here would stop that from making it a reality, and what you touch on your lead, there does seem to be a divide between national republicans here in washington speaking to the more national audience and state republicans and conservatives who have been working, frankly, for years to make these laws possible so they can be challenged at the supreme court, and, of course, seeing now what the court is likely doing, you are watching other conservative states like louisiana, texas, south dakota and others trying to push forward on the abortion issue and then some. >> have you seen senator rick scott introduce a bill to create a new floor of viability of 15 weeks in the united states senate? >> not that i have seen yet, and when you talk about the rnsc, their polling tells republicans that they need to be compassionate on this issue. at the same time, it's hard to look at this as anything other than when republicans start talking about restricting abortion, that's a conversation that means taking things away from people, the option away from people. at the same time, too, i think what i have been keeping in mind with the nrsc polling, it's stale, and people may not have been focussing on roe because it was not an issue and it was settled and the past 49 years, that has been the case. sources i have been talking to on both sides of this, republican and democrat, you are moving into unchartered territory, because it has been theoretical, the threat to roe from both sides and it's happening and we don't know what that's going to look like. >> caroline, you have been reporting on what has been going on in the states, and it feels as though elected republicans on a federal level are trying to compartmentalize what is happening in the states, and to hear rick scott saying the democrats are radical and don't support limits at all, and you are going wait a minute, look at what is happening in louisiana. i don't think it's going to be the debate they think it will be? >> we are seeing states push more and more extreme legislation. i think what happened yesterday in louisiana really shows how far they might be willing to go. i mean, this was a bill that, you know, would make it a murder charge for a women. that's really something we have not seen before, chuck. up until this point, it has been about punishing the people surrounding the abortion procedure. it has been about the providers. it has been about the various people that facilitate the procedure. here we are seeing them moving forward on a bill that would, you know, potentially, you know, make this a crime for the woman who receives the abortion. i think that's a really significant change we are seeing. >> do you see, already -- caroline, i have seen a few legislators, all of a sudden the reality of roe being eliminated, and you are seeing -- it has been in a couple cases but i am curious if you are picking up on it, maybe there should be exceptions t x, y and z, and maybe we rushed to judgment here? >> i have not seen that yet. i spend a lot of time in my reporting talking to state lawmakers, anti-abortion lawmakers all over the country, and they are just so energized by what is happening right now. you know, this is something they have been working on for decades. you're actually seeing a trend of getting rid of exceptions for rape and incest, and in texas there's only an exception for medical emergencies, and even that, the way it's played out, even atopic pregnancies, doctors are concerned -- they are so worried to do the procedure because they are worried, does this actually qualify as a medical emergency, when, of course, we know that it does. there's a lot of fear, i think, is the point among providers of what they can do. >> charlie, you were well known and a conservative talk show radio host and extraordinary influential. the issue of overturning roe v. wade, i will -- i come at this a bit cynically. i don't think many of the elected republicans when they were saying it believed it and felt comfortable saying it because they didn't think it was ever going to happen. am i being too cynical? >> no. i think ali made a really good point, it has been theoretical up until now. this was a free shot for republicans. it was also a free shot for democrats. in wisconsin we have a law on the books criminalizing abortion, and democrats never repealed that because i don't think they ever thought this day would come. but, you know, on capitol hill republicans may be able to dodge answering questions about this, but at the state level it becomes a very, very urgent question. we have an attorney generals election, and it's a binary choice. i would have said the odds overwhelmingly favor republicans winning those races 48 hours ago, but now it becomes an up or down issue of abortion, and here in the state of wisconsin, if the republicans win that law goes into effect if roe is overturned. the other big question in terms of the energizing of the base, and i think it's too early to know, is what will the litmus test among republicans be? we have seen how these things can move very, very quickly. the elimination of all the exceptions is an example of all that. this is a base-led party. this is a party that is responsive to what the grassroots says and is reluctant to get crosswise with them. if the republican-base demands radical restrictions on abortion, you are going to see more legislation like this, and you will see pressure at the national level, particularly if in 2025 you have a republican president and a republican congress to do something about that, and i think that's very unpredictable right now how intense that will be. >> break this down for me on some election terms. look, the national polling is overwhelmingly in favor of roe, but obviously it's different depending on the state, and if you take out new york and california you probably see a more narrow divide among the other 48 states on this issue. where do you expect this to become more problematic for the republicans? does it surprise you at how nervous they are acting right now? >> chuck, just go back to the 2020 exit poll. 28% of trump voters supported legal abortion in all or most cases, and that's a significant chuck of the trump base. this has the potential to drive a wage into that base particularly in the midwestern states where a percentage of that was higher. in 2016, he downplayed social issues like abortion and gay marriage and places where he had a lot in common with the white class working voters, including women. on top of that, consider the energy level on college campuses before this decision leaks was pretty much dead, and now it has the potential to very much come alive particularly for state races. we have 36 governorships on the ballot, and i think the re-election stock for people like michigan state university's district, and marcy captor in toledo has gone up. >> one of the things i wonder here is this essentially an equalizer when it comes to base energizing? that the democrats were lacking that fear issue to get -- at the end of the day we know fear motivates a base more than hope, and the democrats now have their fear issue, right, dave? >> in march the nbc news poll said it all, we almost never see enthusiasm gaps that wide. i don't think that gap will close entirely but it will close significantly as a result of a ruling. if that is the case, you know, that has the potential not only to lift democratic governors as a check on republican legislators in a bunch of key states, but could cut democrats' losses in the house, not enough to save their majority but still important. >> charlie, wisconsin is -- to me ground zero, and, my goodness, considering how polarized that state is in many ways, wisconsin exported their polarization quite expertly, and i feel like it's going to be the last state to settle the abortion divide? >> i don't think we will settle the abortion divide. it will be intensified. it's a political debate, and i don't see how it does not dominate this november's contest. if republicans take control they will have to figure out do they pass some sort of a restriction or do they let the old law go into effect? we're very closely divided state, and to dave's point, there were a lot of trump voters who voted on noncultural issues. this seems like it's going to be front and center. obviously there's a lot of headwinds involving inflation and other things going on here, and it might not be dispositive, and democrats had a problem in wisconsin and they were hoping the opposition to ron johnson would be enough to turn them out, and no question in order for democrats to win in wisconsin you have to have turnout from the college towns and milwaukee and the madison area, and they need to continue to make inroads into the suburban areas, and this is exactly the issue that i think will cause a real problem for republicans in the suburban wow counties in wisconsin, and so there's got to be real anxiety that once again to use the grossly over used cliche, they have been chasing this bus for a long, long time and the dog finally caught it and they are not sure what to do with it. >> caroline, there's an unintended consequence that a doctor friend pointed out to me said, the states that govern the strict reproductive health care, what will follow is a whole bunch of obgyns that say, i'm not going to practice there, and all of a sudden you are getting low health care in places that put the restrictive laws on the reproduction health care? >> that's true, chuck. there was a report on this, and there's a high number of residency programs that will not be able to train people in abortion procedures. that's going to have huge ripple affect with the number of doctors available across the country that can do this procedure, and that affects not just republican-led states banning the procedure. that could also affect how many providers are available in states like california and new york and connecticut. one thing you are really seeing a lot of are bills from these democrat-led states that try and open this up and say, you know, we're going to let more people become abortion providers, but, you know, that's just not going to be possible if people can't get the training. >> ali, let's go to the democratic side of the aisle here. they have control of congress, but in -- in theory, but not to do anything on this. is there any path that they have of actually passing anything that might protect some access to abortion? >> no, because right now what they are trying to do is effectively a messaging bill, and there are some democratic senators that will cop to that because the realities are what they are in terms of the numbers, and they don't have the number to do this by a simple majority, by getting rid of the filibuster, and there's not the political will for that and they don't have the 60 votes. chuck schumer is going to hold a vote on this next week, going to be wednesday most likely, and they are going to put senators on the record here. there has been tinkering around the edges with the women's health protection act. the version that failed in february is pretty similar to the version they will put on the floor next week. it has some less nonbinding language at the top, and the crux of it is the same. one of the hang-ups we will watch to see if maybe they end up potentially getting murkowski or collins onboard, they would have to remove one of the religious exemptions from the bill. the reason they have it in there right now, as it has been explained to me, they want to make it unasalable in court. there's no court to make it unasailable from because there's no law, and that's the sticking point of most democrats voting for it and republicans voting against it, and joe manchin doesn't look like he will likely vote for it. >> in a world where roe existed this creates wedges and divides on the democratic side, and in a world where roe doesn't exist, you see all of those attempts go away and all the wedges and problems show up on the right. thank you all for providing your expertise. coming up, how the abortion fight has taken center stage in one democratic runoff. it's an exception. for what it's worth, the woman running joins me. the market, a lot of it has to do with the perception the economy is locked in. this post pandemic economy is a reality and this is wall street's reaction to it. this is the biggest, for whatever its worth, this is a large drop for one day. you are watching "meet the press daily." welcome back. as we mentioned, the debate over abortion rights is center stage in the contest and mostly an issue with republicans, but it's a place where it's a democratic debate, if you will, and it's in texas, where long time incumbent cuellar. he defended his support in an interview with my colleague, garrett hague. take a listen. >> is there still room in the democratic party for a self-described pro life member? >> i hope so. i hope so. we are not going to have a litmus test in our party, and we never have had and should not start now. if this district is anything like it was, cuellar gives us a good chance of winning this seat than anybody else. >> it's a heated runoff match in the 28th congressional district down there. and now his opponent joins me now. >> happy to be here. >> you heard congressman clyburn's remarks there, and i understand you believe his stance on abortion should be enough to pull their support, and the voters know he is a self described pro life candidate. why do you think voters have re-elected him with that abortion rights stance? >> i mean, it's a challenge going up against somebody who has been in office for long time, and he's been in office longer than i have been alive, and then a 26-year-old challenger running on a grassroots campaign, and we come within 3% points of defeating him. we are just -- there was just an 800-vote difference between our campaigns, and we are getting closer and closer. on march 1st, the voters -- the majority of voters in the district voted for a pro choice candidate. >> right. >> for us, it's about trying to turn out the voters on the may 24th runoff election. >> let me ask you this. the district is a bit more divided on the abortion rights than your typical democrat-leaning democrats. >> i feel like people have just taken his word that this district is conservative as it is when it comes to the issue, and we have been running on this since 2019 when i first decided to run. we are bringing it up again in this cycle, because we noticed and this week really points out the urgency of protecting not just roe but so many of our fundamental freedoms that stem from this kind of case law, and i know it's important to voters because i have been out there talking to them myself. i remember when the first few voters that i got on the line, they were telling me about how upset they were that cuellar had sided with republicans on this issue. >> you heard jim clyburn, and he believes there should not be a litmus test. you believe there should be. why? what would you tell jim clyburn? >> at this moment, we are watching the roe, and it necessitates somebody that will fight, and we don't need somebody that will keep siding with republicans, not just on this issue, and he did it to fund the border wall, and there are so many key issues where he's always siding with republicans and he could become the joe manchin of the house. we don't want him to be the deciding vote on the fundamental futures and freedoms on our rights, and fur watching this and want to help us out, we are 19 days away from the election and need all the support we can get. >> it's not lost on you that you have seen in some of these primary match-ups that put the progressive wing and establishments against each other, and the establishment came out on top and you saw that in ohio, and how do you plan to buck that trend? >> again, we are getting closer and closer. it was just a one percentage point difference in the race in the march 1st democratic primary. we know it's a winnable race and we have seen it happen before. it was done last cycle and we are planning on doing it this cycle as well. >> what do you say to jim clyburn -- he clearly is endorsing cuellar because he thinks he can hold the seat and there's concern you cannot hold the seat, you will be considered too progressive to hold this district. make your case? >> sure. people in this district are not voting for me because i am progressive, but because i am putting forth policies that will enact change in the district, and it has a 30% poverty rate and we have historically had low rates of people that are insured, and people are coming out and giving the incumbent the run of his life because we need change. i hope the democratic leadership doesn't stand in the way of the change south texans want to see. there are so many people rallying behind this campaign, and we have been able to nickel and dime and get enough donations, and it shows the power we have here in south texas. this is the kind of race where we are censuring people, and we are centering the campaign around people with the voter outreach districts to keep this state blue in the mid-term election. >> if you get elected, president biden may be calling you and saying, hey, you're representing folks on the border. what do they want in a border policy? what do they want when it comes to title 42? what would you tell them? >> to repeal the trump relic. it's not surprising cuellar is keeping it, and he voted with trump many times, and it's not surprising he wants to keep it instead of repealing it. i was raised in the border district here, and i am excited once elected to shape our border policy in a way that takes into consideration the joys and the challenges of living here on the border. so whenever we do win, i am more than happy to take that call from president biden and help. >> jessica, one of the two democratic candidates in the 28th congressional district, it's a run-off we will have later this month. appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us. up next, as the u.s. passes that grim milestone of 1 million covid deaths, one lawmaker in capitol hill is pushing for research to treat long covid. and one senator kaine joins me to discuss long covid next on "meet the press daily." my a1c stayed here, it needed to be here. ruby's a1c is down with rybelsus®. my a1c wasn't at goal, now i'm down with rybelsus®. mom's a1c is down with rybelsus®. 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>> it is, chuck. i think about 30% of americans have the position i do, and we are personally pro life and live that way and we think people ought to be able to make their own reproductive decisions >> it feels like this is something that i see already susan collins is not going to vote for this version of the bill because there's a piece of fine print that she thinks is not protected there. is this something that politically is even possible to get 51 people to agree on what the -- i mean, it feels like -- it seems impossible that you would agree on a floor? >> i think to get 60 votes right now in the senate is virtually impossible, chuck, because the republicans want to overrule roe v. wade. there's a couple exceptions, susan collins and lisa murkowski, but most of them want to return to pre-roe, and you might see us get over 50 for some version of a clear statement that, you know, griswold, roe and casey are good law and americans have the constitutional right to make their own reproductive health care decisions and we will make much effort next week. >> i want to ask about the economy. i had a pretty high-level democrat over the weekend say to me, i wish the white house had a inflation czar the way they have a covid czar and get out there and sort of acknowledge that, yes, we are dealing with inflation. this is not politically caused. we got a lot of reasons for it. here's what we are doing every day to work on it, and apparently the idea was shot down by the white house. what do you think of it? >> chuck, it reminds me, and i am older than you but it was nixon or ford that had the whip inflation buttons they would wear, and they made it a front and center priority. i think that explains what the fed is doing with interest rates, and we have an economy where wage growth and job growth is strong, and we have an inflation worry. there are things we can do in congress. if we were able to pass a reconciliation bill that would bring down childcare and health care cost, we could help people with two big pocketbook items, and what the fed is doing under powell's leadership, can we narrow down and reduce the inflation challenge. >> tell me what it's like to live with long covid? what is it like today? >> yeah, so like today, even as i am talking to you, i got covid when we were passing the cares act, and my skin starts to tingle, and it never has gone away. my other symptoms went away quick, and this fizzing sensation, it doesn't stop me from exercising or sleeping, and it's weird and at this point i have to assume it's never going away. >> i am sure you're probably more aware of how many people have similar stories as yours, how many have you come across and what kind of medical research has gone into this? >> chuck, tons of people, as soon as i shared my story, you know, my office has become a bit of a magnet for people that wanted to share theirs. i decided to share my story after 6 or 8 months and i had been to a neurologist and felt like i understood what was going on, and i ran into others with more serious symptoms and were not being believed, and if they are not being believed but i am on the committee and say i believe you and that would give them comfort and on the committee, i could try and drive through the solutions. we put more than $1 billion into research for causes and cures. interesting, chuck, we may know cures before causes. my nerve tingling thing, and there are other cures not related to covid and maybe those cures could work with it connected to covid, and people with long covid have racing heart rates, and there are other cures for that, and the long covid act i put in recently, gather patient data, and more research into the causes and cures and spread the information to providers and employers and families, and then let's provide support for those, who example, might be debilitated or they need an accommodation to be able to work. so i am very focused on this because i am living with it, but there are many who are really suffering and we owe them answers and we owe them treatments. >> look, you talked about getting medical professionals to believe their patients. they are almost describing what many times people get lyme disease go through. the doctors are like, we can't find it. we can't find it. >> absolutely. >> how do you make sure insurance companies don't deny benefits on these symptoms, again, that are not as well known yet? >> chuck, it's a good question. you are right. the research we are going to do is going to answer questions just not about long covid but other conditions that may have followed other conditions, and other times they have a tail of neurological issues. what if you got covid at the start of covid before there was a lot of testing and so you never really got a test, but you did have covid. then you have been vaccinated, so now you have antibodies in your system and somebody could say those antibodies, they are from your vaccination, they don't prove you had covid. making a claim for insurance, and establishing a disability, asking an employer for an accommodation to help you work consistent with what you can do, these are all thorny questions, and that's what the fourth pillar of my bill would do, patient support to help folks who have been through the tough two years. we just passed a million deaths. my god, who would have ever believed that two years ago. millions more will not be dying of covid but having to live the rest of their lives with long covid. this bill that does have significant bipartisan support, particularly on the funding side could help provide some of the support. >> look, i have seen your interviews on this, and i felt as if the more people pay attention to this, i think you are right, people may have been shamed by doctors saying they are imagining things and things like that, and you are not somebody that does this. this is happening to you. i appreciate you coming on and sharing your story, senator. >> absolutely. thank you, chuck. >> senator tim kaine, democratic governor from virginia. next, the bloody battles are raging in mariupol, and where we now stand on day 71 of the war in ukraine. that's ahead. you're watching "meet the press daily." it's hard to picture the future when you're not sure how to get there. it's more like...a feeling. a free plan from fidelity can help you prioritize the moments that are important to you. and see them alongside your full financial picture. the big ones. the ones that really matter. balance your investment mix, stay on track, and make changes... all for free. the little stuff? 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new dove men stress-relief body wash... with a plant-based adaptogen, helps alleviate stress on skin. so you can get back in sync. new dove men. a restorative shower for body and mind. welcome back. any moment now we expect to hear from the pentagon spokesperson, john kirby, and that comes as "the new york times" is reporting the u.s. is providing specific intelligence that is helping ukraine target and kill generals. according to "the times," it's providing real-time battle news to ukraine. the national security council decided to put out a statement that calls the headline of the story misleading and it's framing irresponsible. the spokesperson goes on to right, the united states provides battlefield intelligence to help the ukrainians defend their country. we do not provide the intelligence with the intent to kill russian generals. this comes as intense fighting continues at the steel plant in mariupol. i will speak with the former deputy commander of the united states european command after this break. you're watching "meet the press daily." trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high ♪ ♪ you know how i feel ♪ (coughing) ♪ breeze driftin' on by ♪ ♪ you know how i feel ♪ copd may have gotten you here, but you decide what's next. start a new day with trelegy. ♪ ...feelin' good ♪ no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand and start a new day with trelegy. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy. and save at trelegy.com. wayfair has everything i need ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy. to make my home totally me. sometimes, i'm a homebody. can never have too many pillows! sometimes, i'm all business. a serious chair for a serious business woman! i'm always a mom- that is why you are smart and chose the durable fabric. perfect. i'm not a chef- and, don't mind if i do. but thanks to wayfair, i do love my kitchen. yes! ♪ wayfair you got just what i need. ♪ welcome back. joining me is the former deputy commander and now a msnbc military analyst. i got to start with the news about whether we're providing intelligence to target russia in general. it is -- it feels like the statement from the government is a bit of a distinction without a difference basically saying, look, that isn't the motivation for this intelligence sharing, it's about helping ukraine in the battlefield but targeting generals, if the ukrainians are doing this, there's a motive to this, is there not? >> well, chuck, first of all, i would have to agree with the government. i've been a recipient of this intelligence for 40 years having served in the military and what the u.s. is doing i must say is unprecedented because normally we share our intelligence with our nato allies and, as you know, our partners. so opening up this intelligence and serving -- helping the ukrainians, that is different and something that i have not seen in my 40 years in the military. but what i will tell you is it is making a difference on the battlefield obviously for us to share that intelligence, whether it's going after the command and control systems is what i would think that the ukrainians are doing and most of the command and control and operation centers, most of those have generals in them. so in a round-about way, yes, you're probably killing some generals by going after command and control systems, but they're also going after other things, whether it be logistics or the artillery or the missile systems. so i would put this in a greater context of they're going after things to really cripple and weaken the russian military. >> let's look at this from the flip side, general. being former head of the european command, i'm sure you thought you knew everything there was to know about the russian military. are you surprised at certainly how poorly their leadership structure has performed? >> not really, chuck. i've spent a lot of time in ukraine. my first tour in ukraine training and assisting the ukrainian forces was in the 1996 and i saw then the ukrainians themselves supports the wall had come down a couple of years prior but the ukrainians were still under the old soviet system of training and fighting and throughout that time, those three months i spent in ukraine, i had u.s. forces there and they are amazed at the autonomy, the accountability, the morale that the u.s. service members bring to training and to the fight. when you took a look at the ukrainians back then, it was the senior leaders leading operations where we had noncommission officers leading operations. so i saw a vast difference and the way u.s. soldiers fought and the way russian-type, ukrainian soldiers fought during that time frame. and i will tell you -- go ahead, chuck. >> so it sounds like, general, it's inevitable that russia was going to have a morale problem the second they essentially hit a hurdle? >> well, it's more than just a training. first of all, the russian soldiers need to know why they're fighting. as you know, you've heard the stories, they don't quite know why they're fighting. when you call it a special operation, that is not telling your soldiers in honesty what they're going into battle. they need to know why they're fighting and they need to have the will to fight. that carries a long way when you're dealing with combat operations. don't underestimate the will of the fight. part of it is their leadership being honest with their soldiers so they'll know why they're fighting. >> do you believe they can win this war with everything we're providing them or do you think we'll need to do a little built bit more to get them over the top? >> i think we're going to have to do a little bit more. this is a battle of wills, a battle of attrition. in the east you're seeing the attrition start to fall out here, where the russians will win a battle, a small battle, that you come back and wake up the next day and ukrainians have taken back over that particular city or that particular ground support. it will continue to slog through this unless we get some overwhelming combat power to the ukrainians to make a difference. >> general, i have to leave it there. it's a pleasure to get your expertise. thank you all. we'll be back tomorrow with more "meet the press daily." 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