headquarters here in new york. welcome to alex -- reports. we have this breaking news in the war in ukraine. president zelenskyy is now confirming a un coordinated effort to evacuate civilians trapped in -- zelenskyy has tweeted that the first group of about 100 evacuees are now heading to a controlled area, and will eventually make their way to another city. he says that his teams are working with you and to evacuate more. russians military, meanwhile, show the president putin lied to a -- with ukrainians in the plant. >> these damages show about plant look like after weeks of bombardment from russian forces, and we are learning more about how speaker nancy pelosi's high profile visit to kyiv. she laid a congressional delegation to a meeting with president zelenskyy just moments ago. i asked congressman adam schiff what victory would look like for ukraine. >> i think forcing russia out, reclaiming territorial integrity. if ukraine wants to join the european union, it should be able to join the european union. if they want to join nato, it should be able to do that as well. it should have the right of self determination, unlike any other nation. i think it is very much a place where freedom to choose governance as a nation, and oppression and tyranny. represents about putin's russia. >> that congressional trip coincides with the arrival of several shipments of weapons to help ukraine's defense against russia. one republican says that time is of the essence for congress to approve a third aid package, requested by the president. >> the next territory weeks are going to be very pivotal, and very decisive in this war. i don't think we have a lot of time to waste in congress. i wish we had had this sooner. but we have it now. if our speaker for a day, i would call congress back into session. back into work. as we won't be in session next week. >> joining us now, nbc's kelly -- in ukraine. and julie tsirkin, joining us from washington. we will go to you first kelly. would you hearing about this congressional trip? >> the news of this is making the rounds. people are talking about, people are always thrilled to see high-ranking u.s. officials on the ground here in ukraine. particularly in kyiv. meeting with president zelenskyy. they want to know about the american support. they are very appreciative of the american support. silencing himself said he was grateful for that visit to ukraine, showing that the u.s. is standing by ukraine, and is not afraid to go to kyiv and meet with the president. when we heard from speaker pelosi today, that video obviously leads to after the congressional delegation left ukraine. so, this was yesterday. they released a video today. along with having a press conference in poland where the delegation is today. some members of the delegation, particularly congressman meeks, and having some very strong words for russian president putin. >> everything is going to increase. pressure from the outside. pressure from the inside. there is nowhere for him to go. we are going to continue, until he surrenders. if he does anything in regards to unconventional weapons, dealing with anything like chemical weapons, or any kind of strategical nukes, all bets are off. the speaker just said, we are not going to back down to a bully. >> we have not yet heard from the russian ministry of defense on the statements, but we have heard from them on other topics today. they claim that they struck 800 different sites across ukraine in the past 24 hours. and they also, as you mentioned alex, took credit for the evacuation of what we believe are about 100 civilians, from the steel plant in besieged mariupol. although in a statement that the russian ministry of defense released, they says that 80 civilians, including women and children, were rescued. they said they have, quote, been forcibly detained by ukrainian nationalists. and that russian forces ensured a cease-fire so that those people could get out. there is a discrepancy in the number of people who have been evacuated. it is unclear where they are right now. but the ministry of defense also says that civilians who wish to go to ukraine have been handed over to the red cross in order to facilitate their passage to kyiv-controlled territory. alex. >> i'm going to think in advance for unwinding. specifics of what you are reporting there from mariupol. thank you kelly. last aloft said that if they want to resolve the crisis, the u.s. has to immediately stop supplying arms to ukraine. this after a slew of weapons are set to arrive from the u.s.. including several artillery rounds. military analysts expect this to be a game-changer in ukraine's defense against russia. joining me now, retired u.s. army major. his service at ten years after duty, ten years after being in the reserve, and -- in desert shield, desert storm operation. thank you for joining me again on the broadcast. tell, what capability do you think these tools give ukraine's military, that they did not have before? how much more competitive than can ukraine be on the battlefield, because of these shipments that are arriving? >> thank you for having me, alex. the artillery is going to make a difference. if you look at the last pockets that went through, that aid there and the amount of supplies that is going to be supplied to the ukraine is going to be a real difference in the donbas region. that is going to be the most important thing. also, american soft power in there as well. command and control. the fact of the ukraine military has held off so far is just incredible. they continue to do that because they're using their fire maneuver, using the technology that we have provided there. and also showing great courage on the other side of the coin. the russians are not fighting any kind of a fire. the latest pocket, the 20 billion dollar pocket, that numbers astronomical. more up to russia. that tells russian we are no longer managing this destruction of ukraine. we are going to go in the offensive. 20 billion dollars is for a time the budget of the ukraine military. it is about the size of canada and israel. it is time to tell russia that we are in for the long run. i think russia's doing a tremendous job job in being in it for the long run. howitzers, tanks, and other things are going to be real game-changers. >> this sounds like a hell of a lot of power. is russia capable of beating ukraine with this kind of support? does russia have won it needs? it has been drawn into question. it has not been what we anticipated from russian thus far. >> right. where has not performed any way that we thought they would. they shouldn't be doing two things. one, reconstituting their forces. they took forces out of kyiv, and brought it to the donbas region. about ten tanks, 25 or 50 personnel carry, about 1000. they have come with low morale,, and they are not going to strike. they keep throwing him into the fire in the donbas region. if you look at reports of what the ukraine military has destroyed in the last couple of days, they've destroyed over 100 tanks. over 250 armored personnel carriers. from this, a lot of continuity as they bring tanks into the donbas region. spending them out, throwing them right back, grinding them up. russia still has maps. they have this capability, should they decide to fully mobilize their country. they have not done that yet. maybe that happens on may 9th. they still have capability. the question is whether or not they are going to do that. the current forces in ukraine right now, just not that much. >> talk about your interpretation of president biden's evolution during the, war as well as on putin and russia. start to where we are now. how do you read it? >> i think it has been super. we started like this in the fact that we thought that ukraine was going to fall very quickly. and again, we didn't want to manage the destruction of ukraine. we do not want to give them false hope. in the last couple, days we've proven over and over again that they deserve our support. they deserve the kinds of things that are coming from. also the fact that nato countries have woken up, the germans in particular. they are providing artillery and weapons. the howitzers are going to start arriving. other military equipment coming from other nato countries. i was never really one that said we should have brought some of those countries into nato. after this action by russia, i am much more in favor of seeing sweden and finland join nato in the short term, and perhaps even eight ukraine. but again, the administration, both from where they started to how the pentagon is acting, soldiers training the ukrainian military and poland and they like. they have cleared their task. and the pentagon has done a superb job. that is all the presidents -- >> let me ask you about the definition of the word support, though. the, u.s. according to the pentagon, says that they are training ukrainian soldiers. do you see any risk of mission -- ? ? >> i don't. the hard border is ukraine border. and that is the issue here. we are fighting a proxy, war no question about that. we have got to that joint amount of which serial and supplying ukraine, making this a proxy war. looking back to the 60s and 70s, supporting the vietnam era military. they manned their defense platforms. it shot down that as well. so i don't think so. i don't think the president has been short about that. we don't have large numbers of troops there to begin with. we don't have the amount of forces that could go in any kind of offense. it would take six or seven months. we would know if we're gonna do that. it happened in -- as well as 1991 we mobilized into desert storm -- we are not doing that right -- now we are doing exactly what we should be doing. training, supporting, giving that military assistance. >> always a pleasure sir, thank you so much. let's go from there to the white house, where there is pushback before title 42 was lifted in the southern border. abc's -- how is the white house responding to these concerns? >> alex, the administration is continuing to defend the decision to lift title 42 when it expires on may -- but, first some background on what this policy is. -- at the head of the pandemic, enabling what officials to turn away migrants who might potentially pose a house risk to americans at home. later, -- was grilled about their decision to lift this policy. and grilled about a proposal that he put out this week, on how to deal with an influx of migrants at the border. he was brought by powerful house committees on this plan. -- this morning. >> the plan was not to devise last week when it was published. this is a plan that we have been working on since september of last year. we understood that the title 42 public health authority, the cbc, would not be around forever. so we have been executing on this plan for months and we are intensifying our efforts, adding resources to it to address the potential for an increase in migration. once title 42 comes to an end. >> alex, the reality of this is, it's also a big political moment for the administration. because we are just months away from the midterm elections. and it's no secret that vulnerable frontline democrats, specifically from border states, feel the heat with support tell if this policy. they're vocal about, and hoping the administration reverses course to give them some cover ahead of the midterm elections. let's, more democratic leadership is deciding whether to pay this unrelated item with covid relief with the ukraine aid. republicans, of course, requesting, demanding a vote on title 42, if they end up pairing the border relief with ukraine relief. but it's certainly a complicated. one >> absolutely. julie tsirkin, thank you there for ironing out for us as best you can. appreciate that. so, we're talking a whole lot about more weapons to ukraine to fight russia. but what's being done to encourage diplomacy? that's next. that's next. >> i came here as a member of the intelligence committee and the armed services committee and as a combat veteran myself, with three areas of focus. weapons, weapons and weapons. we have to make sure the ukrainians have what they need to win. >> you heard it there, weapons, weapons, weapons. congressman jason crow, who joined that democrat delegation in the surprise trip to kyiv overnight. making his focus on ukraine abundantly clear. joining me now is congressman mike quigley, democrat from illinois, member of the intelligence committee. congressman, good to have you on the broadcast. so, your colleague there, stressing the importance of weapons. when i want to ask is, what about the diplomatic track? have we completely given up on that front? i know the administration says you can't negotiate with putin if he's not willing to negotiate. but would consistent effort be affective at some point? or even is that happening, and we're just not hearing about? it >> no, i think is particularly difficult right now. it's not just that it's putin, it's the russian maximalist demands which continue. if we begin with a cease-fire and recognize that it's extremely difficult, not impossible to negotiate as a sign of weakness or desperation, i think the fact that we're showing putin strength by providing these enhanced arms. you know, i was frustrated as we began this conflict, it puts us in the position where this is possible. but obviously, it's not being talked about a lot, to your point. and it is an area of concern. it is, indeed, never too late for diplomacy. >> we know the president has asked for 33 billion dollars in aid to ukraine, which brings the total to nearly 50 billion thus far. for our contributions into the war effort. it appears to be the most money we've ever spent on a war where we have not fired a single shot. so, do we not have a diplomatic responsibility as well as providing the military and humanitarian aid support? >> you know, i think we do. but those diplomatic efforts need to involve, probably, just greater sanctions at this point. if putin won't come to the table, i think we began to further enhance those sanctions. we haven't fully sanctioned the banks and taken them out of the program. we have it dealt with russian energy sources. the numbers that you showed for military support or large, but the financial assistance that russia gets when europe purchases energy from them, probably dwarfs this. that's a thing that i think the eu will begin in earnest this week, we hope it will be a swift process. >> i want to play you something that my colleague chuck todd asked prominent is on nbc's meet the press this morning, here it is. >> when secretary austin did a debrief after his visit to kyiv, he said something earlier this week about our goals now, with russia. we want to see russia weakened to the degree that it can't do the kinds of things it has done in invading ukraine. in response to that, the russians essentially said well, the americans are fighting a proxy war against russia and ukraine. isn't the answer to that, yes? in that sense, yes, this is a proxy war between the west and russia? do you accept that description? >> no, not necessarily. >> so, here is the deal. at the end of the day, you can't deny that the u.s. has some form of involvement here. even if just monetarily. so, i want to pose the same question to you that chuck asked. is this a proxy war? >> of course it is. we don't give the kind of aid, you don't sanction to bring the russian economy down, unless you're involved with the conflict. the fact of the matter is russia has committed acts of war against our country for sometime now. the elections in 2016, 18 and 20. the other cyber attacks that have already taken place. the threats that putin has made about putting hypersonic missiles in cuba and central america. these are threats of war. the fact is they violated international law and intact and invaded a sovereign, democratic country. this puts it into a state of conflict, and we need to act like it. to your point of diplomacy matters, we have to fulfill our obligations there, but we have to address the fact that we are at war and we have to defend ourselves accordingly. >> yeah, we have secretary austin saying russia needs to be weekend. you have president biden certainly calling some of the atrocities that we've witnessed war crimes and genocide. and then, also, suggesting the process of regime change, he did that on that world stage in poland. i think we can all agree that ukraine is suffering through horrific atrocities, but is this level of rhetoric part of a greater strategy? >> i'm not sure if it's part of a greater strategy. it certainly poking the bear. the fact of the matter is, we're sending unprecedented economic support, humanitarian support and military support to the ukrainian war effort. and it's proper that we do. so i don't know that we need to further exacerbate the situation with putin. getting in his mind that which he already believes, that we want to change the regime, that we want to take him out and weaken him. to the point, this war already weekend russia's image alone, by exposing their military shortcomings. but it also has unified nato, you're going to see troop posturing enhanced, mint military enhancement throughout eastern europe. throughout all of europe. and that, alone, will make russia weaker. so, i am for fighting this war on an even level and giving ukraine everything they necessarily need to do. there are some diplomatic channels we need to fulfill, and i don't want to put putin in a position where he can tell the russian people see, they're trying to get rid of me. >> i asked this question of your intel committee colleague adam schiff, as he traveling back from ukraine. but the concept of victory. u.s. officials say it's up to ukraine to define what defines victory. but i want to know what you think. what you think victory will or should look like. >> first, russia gains nothing from this, from their assault. certainly no land acquisition. that ukraine and nato are strengthened militarily, to protect from future attacks. then all of the assets that have been seized will be seized, are turned over to ukraine, so that they can be made whole and begin to rebuild our country. finally, at the top of my head, those responsible for war crimes are held accountable. >> okay. i'm going to say, you are very accurately echoing the sentiments of representative schiff. so, we're going to assume that's a definition of victory going forward. congressman, thank you. >> same thing. >> thank you. they're simple stick figure drawing stirring controversy, thanks to elon musk. the message he's sending, my next guest says, destroying gets it wrong. gets it wrong. ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. new poligrip power hold and seal. clinically proven to give strongest hold, plus seals out 5x more food particles. fear no food. new poligrip power hold and seal. now today's other top stories. nationwide search for -- both vanished from an alabama jail. they say that if a key white it is transporting -- white, no relation, from a -- but apparently didn't exist. her boundary was near the nearest shopping center, and she's considered armed and dangerous. tornadoes tore through the wichita suburb. new video shows how that ef3 tornado ripped apart homes and buildings. officials say four people were injured, but no reports of anybody dying. police in ottawa, canada, arrested at least eight covid mandate protesters during the bike rally this weekend. many of these protesters are reportedly part of the freedom convoy demonstrations earlier this year. from there now to washington, a new reaction to lawmakers on the upcoming public appearance about january six. the house committee plans for the first of eight primetime events to take place on june 9th. mrs. allie raffa is joining us now from capitol hill. these hearings have been a long time coming, as you know. i am not sure that all eight are going to be on prime time. you know at least some. but that said. do lawmakers expect to talk to get to the truth of what happened on january 6th? >> well, alex, the majority of lawmakers do. we actually heard from a few of them on the sunday show this morning, laying out why they feel this way, why they expect the truth to be laid out. essentially, they are saying that this is not a tv network or a newspaper or a website, but could potentially strategically give the american public bits and pieces of this evidence. they are saying that this is a bipartisan congressional committee, that has gathered thousands of pieces of evidence from a wide range of people across the political spectrum. and that these are cold, hard facts. there is no bias involved. congressman jamie raskin, who sits on this committee, has said that these public hearings will, quote, blow the roofs off the house. these hearings will reveal several crimes related to the attack on the capitol, they have not been alleged yet. chairman benny thompson told reporters this week that the hearings will include information that could have a real impact on lawmakers here on capitol hill. he is saying that he would like to give those lawmakers a chance to speak for themselves, before this information comes out. before these public hearings begin. and that is why they will send requests for comments to these gop lawmakers in the house, and the senate. quote, soon. that is what ben thompson told us. gop committee member adam king slinger actually talked about this today on cbs, face the nation. he laid out how far he thinks that the plan will go to realign these lawmakers, before these public hearings begin, alex. let's hear. >> i won't say who i think we need to talk to, yet. i think that everybody should talk to us. we have requested information from various members, in terms of whether we could afford a subpoena as both a tropical decision, and whether we can do that and get the information in time. it is one of those decisions that we make every day. i think ultimately, whatever we can do to get that information. if that takes a subpoena, it takes a subpoena. >> one possibility of a lawmaker giving a subpoena's house minority leader kevin mccarthy who we know the committee has asked to voluntarily testify. but he did not end up cooperating. so it is really unclear how many lawmakers, or how this could move forward. this is something we're definitely monitoring very closely. >> okay. thank you for doing. that ali raphael on capitol hill. today, president biden's approval ratings on the y rise. a new poll shows that 42% of americans approve of biden's performance, a 5% increase since february. joining me now is philip bug, national correspondent for the washington post. good to see you my friend. before we get to the polls, philip, the prospect of some primetime 16 hearings. what is the purpose, and do you think people are going to tune in and watch? is there one person that you want to see testify? >> i am honored. i want to see all. i would love to see president trump sit and testify that is not going to happen. of course not. what is the purpose? really, to force the nations attention on this. it is very easy for this to be put into the background. will people actually watch? we saw what happened during the impeachment. it was sympathetic to president trump. it did not really carry much of it. i think we are seeing some of this pattern again. it nonetheless forces the american people to be aware of what is going on. >> okay. let's get to the new poll numbers then. how do you interpret them? are you getting encouragement from this bump? there is a slight approval, as well, on the economy and the ratings there. >> it is certainly better than going the other direction. i think we have seen, since basically 2010, this pattern where and democrats, democratic presidents, that is been consistently the case. from barack obama to donald trump now into joe biden. after he's come out of his honeymoon phase. so this is sort of the normal range of this point for the president. definitely on the low end of the normal range. i think a lot of us feel, that especially with the midterms coming. up with again, approval is better for the white house than anything coming down. i don't think it is necessary at this point, given the fascination in november. >> as we talk about the economy here, this week the white house said that it is close to making a -- about student loan forgiveness. but they did not commit to a specific plan. is there a strategy, philip, behind the timing of this? and would some form of student debt relief be in advantageous for this administration? >> one of the things the administration is keenly aware of the people who came out and really backed biden by the widest margin of any group have seemed to -- approval of president biden. there are many reasons. one of this pointed to a student loan debt. if i'm remembering correctly, -- have student loan debt. this is not going to affect everybody. we have also a representation to younger americans that has not yet been -- the white house is aware of that. they understand there are both upsizing and downsides, and you are aware of the fact that they want to make some sort -- of one of the things that people criticize about democrats is that he is not deliver on his promise. this is a concrete thing he can deliver, it is probably a lot of what is driving him to do this. >> absolutely. it has grabbed a lot of headlines. so action on that would certainly deservedly get some headlines. let me switch gears and talk about elon musk, who you are about this week. musk has been the subject of several headlines, but this tweet in particular about american politics is making some waves. we are going to throw a bet up there in just a second. in your new article, this graph gets it wrong, you say. that is what we are talking about right there. why? explain this. >> obviously it is just a meme. we should not assume it is meant to represent reality exactly. but wind has conveyed isn't everybody has stay the same, but the left move farther left. that is not the case. but we're looking at, here if we are to look at, that it is hard to compare these things because what liberal means now is different from what's liberal meant to 15 years ago. but what we have seen news when you look at 2008, where that term begins, the middle was here and the republicans of the conservatives were really far to the right. whereas democrats were fairly close to the middle. since then, democrats have indeed moved a bit towards the pole, but they are still less polarized than republicans, when we are talking about conservative to liberal spectrum. so yes, it is true that there are more democrats who identify themselves as a liberal. mostly woke democrats, it is worth noting. but it is still heavily outweighed by the fact that so many more republicans call themselves conservative. and obviously, when we talk about things like views of gay marriage and staff, those have changed. this is. true but so have the right views on data and upholding democratic elections. those things have also changed. it is easy to put to anecdotes, one another. but, now the left is starting to move a bit more towards the polls and it has. but enough to spend that pole for sometime. >> given the fact that even was treated this out, to like 80 million followers. it is an extraordinary push that way. what do you think this tweet suggests? the twitter would look like, with mosque at the home? >> that is really the question. would it shows us that elon musk really believes this idea, this narrative, that is not well founded, that conservatives have been disproportionately negatively impacted or targeted by twitter. one of the things we saw after 2016, specifically, is the social media companies trying to crack down on misinformation. we know from studies at the political right is more likely to spread misinformation. we see it about the election all-time, for example. my concern is you are not, should he take over to whether, is actually going to try to implement something which elevates voices of misinformation, and abuse, because he thinks that is being fair. obviously, that is not a positive solution for twitter. but this means, this meme, suggests that he thinks that the left is going out of control in the right is staying with it was. and that indicates that he wants to try to do is draw some sort of balance in the way he does not really sure where ballots might be. >> can i ask you? you qualify. you use the word, should elon musk take over twitter? rather than, when he takes over twitter. is there anything that could prevent him from taking over? >> yes, sure. he could decide he does not want to. he has to have a lot of money in hand in order to do this. they make commitments to banks in order to have the cash to buy. it he may decide it is not worth. it this is not going to go through until later this year, anyway. i think it is a question. mark i think it is likely he is going to. but i also think is the case that he's gotten a lot of play in one of attention, and he can come up with a reason not to take over twitter into sort of land in the same place. >> well then, as always, you are very accurate with your reporting. thank you philip -- great to see you. there is a new book out titled, why we fight. and it tries to explain war in the path to peace. if you listen closely, enough it may provide some answers about the war in ukraine. we have the author up next. we have the author up next ♪ there's heather on the hedges ♪ ♪ and kenny on the koi ♪ ♪ and your truck's been demolished by the peterson boy ♪ ♪ yes -- ♪ wait, what was that? 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(driver) conventional thinking would say verizon has the largest and fastest 5g network. but, they don't. they only cover select cities with 5g. and with coverage of over 96% of interstate highway miles, they've got us covered. >> we're back with breaking news. as speaker nancy pelosi became the most senior u.s. official to visit ukraine today. as prospects for peace wayne. meeting face to face with president zelenskyy, she committed to stand with ukraine until victory is achieved. >> we believe that we are visiting you to say thank you for your fight to freedom. her own frontier of freedom, your fight is a fight for everyone. so, our mission is to be there for you until the fight is done. >> joining me, now christopher blot men. he is a professor of global conflict studies at the university of chicago into that with a very timely book. it's titled why we fight, the roots of war in the path to peace. christopher, welcome, i'm glad to talk with you about this new book. because it looks to pass global conflicts. to help diagnose the reasons that we fight, to help determine how to stop it. as you listen to speaker pelosi there, committing long term support to this, for two months into this. for interval congressman promising weapons, weapons, weapons, jason crow. do you interpret? that >> really, i see this as allies trying to strengthen another ally. what doesn't change is the very basic incentive for peace, which is that the suarez ruinous. it's ruinous for russia, it's most of all ruinous for ukraine. no one can afford to do this much longer. these are powerful incentives towards peace. we, in the united states, have to balance the line between trying to help and ally eventually find a settlement that is as positive for them as possible, while also trying to, they sickly, strengthen their side. this is a tough line to walk. both to strengthen an ally but also seek peace. >> you're right in a british spectator, that putin's refusal to back down is infuriating. but, while it's understandable that many of the west won't be happy until putin ends up in the dock, we must be wary of ruling out a settlement with russia. fighting put into the bitter end is not likely to be an anyone's interest, lisa value cranes. but a settlement, that could mean that russia get some of what it wants, right? in terms of it land grab. how might the world justify that ever? >> look, we know all wars and. we know almost no wars and for victory in one side. unfortunately, that's probably not going to be the case here, and i feel that powerfully. at the end of the day, russia is probably going to occupy a significant amount of ukrainian territory, and they're probably not going to give it up. likewise, president zelenskyy and the ukrainians are not going to, in all likelihood, not going to acknowledge that our legitimize that. nor will we, their allies. in my mind, the best-case scenario is not so much an official settlement but a stalemate. one that is potentially a lot like cashmere, this region that india has been holding and pakistan has refused to accept for now decades. fortunately, the best we can say that's nonviolent. farmers can plant their crops, children would go to school, there would be significantly less violence. i think this is, unfortunately, the direction this could be heading. >> u.s. aid official administrator powers said today that one of the consequences of russia's invasion, outside of ukraine, is that, globally, food prices are up 34% from where they were a year ago. here's part of that exchange, let's take a listen to it. >> listening to you lay out these consequences, it's hard not to conclude that, in some respects, this has already become something of a world war. >> certainly, in terms of effects. not confined to the horrors that the ukrainian people are suffering. but our job is to look at it globally. russia tries to take advantage of this and say, oh, it's the sanctions causing these high food prices. not at all. it is russia's invasion of ukraine, for no reason. and its unwillingness, now, to come to the negotiating table and get out of ukraine and get back to russia. that is what is causing these cascading affects. we want to meet those effects but continue to ensure that that pressure is put on the russian federation through economic sanctions and through the security assistance. so that they finally negotiate a peace. >> so, what do you make of her comments there? has this, in your mind, become a world war, in some respects? and then the suggestion, there for the path to peace. >> so, i think it's a world war in the sense of the entire world is affected. it's striking that this is not a world war in the sense that, in some sense, the majority of africa, the majority of asia, has decided to stand by the sidelines. and take, basically, a neutral stance. this is fundamentally a war between russia and ukraine, with ukraine having western allies. in terms of the path to peace, i think what we learned from this is, once again, it points at the very basic truth. this gravitational pull towards ending fighting. it is the ruinous nature of war, and these cost, and the global food price bike is just one example of that. it's one of the ways in which everybody is paying some amount of this price. and it's going to be part of that pressure, to try and find, if not a settlement, some kind of stalemate. >> and we ask you about the president, who has called vladimir putin a war criminal. he suggested regime change and has repeatedly called out the atrocities of this war. they are undeniable, for certain. but secretary lloyd austin also saying that the goal is to create a weekend russia. does this kind of language helper doesn't agitate the situation? >> look, i don't think any of that language is a surprise to vladimir putin. i think what matters is, to what extent does he think that there is a way out? in the sense that sanctions might and if he opts for peace. or does he really believe he will be prosecuted, or is this just rhetoric? to the extent that he doesn't look worse to him that war, then i think there is a way out of this sooner rather than later. so, for, me the danger of that kind of rhetoric is the extent to which it actually makes him worry that, actually, peace looks more costly for him. maybe not for the world, but for him, the war. >> okay, university of chicago professor and officer christopher blot men. thank you for your time, we look for to speak with you again. coming up next, a surprising find on a study on the impact of raising the minimum wage. but isn't really that surprising? but isn't really tha surprising are now made with no artificial flavors or preservatives. knorr. taste for good. ♪ limu emu ♪ and doug. ♪ harp plays ♪ only two things are forever: love and liberty mutual customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. 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