marjorie taylor greene's. that is explain exchanged at least 80 to text with sean hannity, many of which involved coordinating messages on election day. even jimmy thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas, has been exposed in this batch of new text messages. in multiple text messages thomas raised the issue with meadows of various efforts of conspiracy theories that involved overturning the results of the election. and these are only the text messages that meadows willingly provided to the committee last year, before he stopped cooperating. and is still locked in a legal battle with the january six committee, by the way. in a court filing this just yesterday, meadows lawyers a cool used to the january six committee of leaking the text messages, to quote, vilified him publicly. it is against his attempts to compel him against this investigation. there is a good chance that the communications between trump allies may become key exhibits of the january six committee will present during a series of public hearings that are set to begin in early june. there is a very good chance that the committee has got plenty of material to work with. in addition to the tens of thousands of documents already in his possession, the committee is set to receive another trove of documents from another key trump ally very soon. after months of resistance, and negotiation this man john eastman and an attorney in an architect of the dubious legal effort to overturn the 2020 election in favor donald trump, has said that he will provide the committee with 10,000 pages of his emails. eastman played a significant role in stoking false claims of voter fraud. and claimed that john pence had the authority to reject joe biden. pence ultimately rejected eastman's plan but his role in this ideal shows how close this country was to a real constitutional crisis. this may not be the last time we hear about eastman or his emails. there is an additional 20, 000, sorry, 27,000 pages, of his documents that remain in dispute. which may be still be turned over to the committee in a later day. joining me now is daniel goldman, a former u.s. attorney for the district of new york. he former worked as -- during the first impeachment of donald trump. danielle, good to see you this. morning let us talk about all of these texts. we have seen leaks and texan audio recordings in the last week and we have also heard from the january six committee that they are going to start public hearings on june 9th. you have been through this before. what does this all mean? >> it means that we are getting a sneak peek into what's kind of evidence the january six committee has. i understand that to the committee generally, was quite ex upset that these text messages leaked. because they will be featured as part of the series of hearings that we started in june. in the event what we are learning from them is more of what we know, which is that there was a massive coordinated effort going to the very top of the country's government, of the republican party. and they involved a wide swath of elected officials. who were trying to figure out any which way to keep donald trump as president, to install him as president in the most anti-democratic way. so i think that there are a number of things were particularly interesting about these text messages, including whether or not mark meadows, or even donald trump, knew about plans for violence on january 6th. that would be very significant in terms of any potential prosecution. because that is really the difference between a conspiracy to overturn the election, and seditious conspiracy. which is basically to participate in the insurrection, in a conspiracy to interfere with the government and overthrow the government. so there is a lot of. there but it is also interesting ali, i think you referenced it with john eastman and mark meadows as well, there are another 1000 text messages that mcmillian did not turn over because they claim the privilege of some sort. and so, giving how damning these 2300 text messages are one can only wonder what is in the others. >> you said something interesting. the committee generally seemed displeased by the fact that these were leaked, because it might take the steam out of what they have got coming on june 9th. i wonder what that means to you. does any of this matter? i mean this somewhat facetiously, but people seem to have made up their minds. is there stuff you expect to come out that will cause people who were either on the fence, if there were any americans on the fence about americans. saying, this is actually crazy. americans were fully involved in a seditious conspiracy to overthrow the government. do you believe there is material that will change hearts and minds? >> i believe that there is material that should change hearts and minds. i think one of the problems in our country right now is exemplified by the text messages between mark meadows and sean hannity, which is that a significant portion of the country only gets there news, quote end quote news, from a right-wing ecosystem that conceals the facts. and so, the people who watch fox news and get their information from right wing radio or right wing internet will not learn about the devastating and damning text messages between mark meadows. well-known hero boot newark the january six committee does. that is a fundamental problem. if they did, there would be evidence that fox viewers, when they watch cnn, actually change their minds, if they did see news of all this stuff, they might change their minds. it is an incredibly difficult situation for all of us, who cares about democracy in rule of law, and to cannot really reach a significant portion of the country that believes in conspiracy theories and completely unfounded rationales. >> that is a problem to overcome. when we have four weeks with which to do it. daniel goldman great to see you as always. he is a former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. and then msnbc legal analyst. i'm joined now by congressman -- he served as the house manager in donald trump's second impeachment trial. last year. which means congressman, good to see you. always a pleasure to have you on the show. it means you know the stuff. i want to continue down this track that i just went down with daniel. you know a lot of this evidence. this is meat on the bones of the stuff that you knew most of. you certainly knew the shape in the contouring the narrative of the story back when you are an impeachment manager. but to dance point, and lots of americans either don't know or reject the evidence. they will not hear. it they will not hear it from a news channel or various news outlets that we'll cover this fairly. so what happens? what do you do with the fact that this committee might actually get to the truth, but it is like a tree falling in the woods of no republican supporters or voters are here? >> i think that is what is going to be particularly important about the public hearings. this committee has worked in a bipartisan way to collect a lot of evidence. they have heard from almost 1000 witnesses, either through depositions or testimonies. they've collected over 100,000 documents. so they have been methodically putting together this case, collecting evidence about the planning financing an execution of an effort to really overthrow the government, and to install as mr. goldman said, donald trump back into office even though he lost the election. this is a very grave threat to our democracy. he was quite right that a lot of people get their news from participants in this. you will remember, these are the tax males between the presidents chief of staff and fox news hosts about the best strategies to advance to try to keep him in power. so it is not like they are going to hear this on fox news. but when you have hearings of this committee which will be televised, it is an opportunity to get to the american people directly, not through some lens of a radical right or television station. they are going to lay out this evidence before the american people, which is damning and overwhelming, about the planning and execution of the attacks on january 6th. i think it will make a real difference in the minds of the american people. not going to convince everyone, but i do think that the evidence is so compelling, it's that this notion that this is just a bunch of people getting upset on january 6th kind of went overboard will be clearly debunked. this was plans. the highest levels of the trump administration, luckily the president himself, knew about the efforts to stop the electoral count on january 6th. and i think it is going to really change the mind of many americans as they see this evidence presented in these hearings. >> after january 6th, there might be in the minds of some americans a solution that looks like the rest of donald trump and cronies for doing this. but ultimately, what we have learned through this impeachment and this committee is that the matter is more serious than that. it is not a matter of a few. people even when you see these convictions for the insurrection going to jail or cutting deals, that is not going to solve the problem. the problem is, we didn't have the necessary guardrails to ensure the succession of democracy in this country. what, after this report comes out, does that fix look like for you? because this report might come a very close to the next election. it may not influence enough people. and it could die on the vine. >> first of all, i think it is two parts. one it is important that every single person who was involved in any way in the planning and the execution of this effort to overturn the election and really thwarted the will of the american people in the most secure election in american history, are held accountable. that is one of those ways you want to make sure that this never happens again, everyone is held accountable and nobody is above the law. that means referrals to the department of justice, charging people for the crimes they've committed. the second part of that is to make sure that the conditions never exist for this to happen again. hr1, everyone having the opportunity to vote. making sure that the electoral counts are received in the way they are supposed, to nobody can meddle with. that there are a number of forms on the electoral count act in char one. other guardrails to make sure that people have the right to vote. that's the vote will be counted. that never again will individuals be able to thwart, or attempt to thwart, the will of the american people as expressed in our presidential elections. >> congressman, good to see you. i hope that what you hope comes to pass. congressman david cicilline of rhode island is the former house manager of donald trump's second impeachment trial last year. still ahead, i am joined by margaret atwood, author of the acclaimed and often band and removed work, the handmaids tail. atwood's prolific. the author of more than -- works of fiction, poetry, and graphic novels. she is joining us for this edition of the velshi banned book club. after the, break house speaker nancy pelosi in a small congressional delegation arrived in kyiv overnight to meet with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. we will have details on that trip, ahead, as you are watching fauci on msnbc. watching fauci on msnbc. we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. hi, i'm steve and i live in austin, texas. i work as a personal assistant and every person... to the owner of a large manufacturing firm. i've got anywhere from 10 to 50 projects going at any given time. i absolutely have to be sharp. let me tell ya, i was struggling with my memory. it was going downhill. my friend recommended that i try prevagen and over time, it made a very significant difference in my memory and in my cognitive ability. i started to feel a much better sense of well-being. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. can a company make the planet a better place? ♪♪ what if it's a company of people working beside friends and neighbors? pursuing 100% renewable energy in our operations. aiming to protect, manage or restore millions of acres of land. and offering you more sustainably sourced products so you can become part of the change. so, can a company make the planet a better place? at walmart, we're working on it, every day. it is going to be a big and bloody battle on the eastern front of this. country >> now there is real fear of rust of russian attacks. >> the humanitarian crash. >> more heartbreaking stories come through this train station. >> this is where you come -- >> for the latest on the war in ukraine. >> how quickly can we train the ukrainian forces to use the howitzers? >> stay with msnbc. >> as a fighting in the city of mariupol remains dire, and russian forces continue to pound the last remaining ukrainian strongholds on the country's eastern front, we saw a show of solidarity overnight from ukraine's western allies. as speaker nancy pelosi let a small delegation of lawmakers to the capital of kyiv, to meet with volodymyr zelenskyy. she personally thanked him for his country's efforts, and his fight in the name of democracy. pelosi is now the highest ranking u.s. official to visit ukraine since the start of the unprovoked russian invasion that began on february 24th. she spoke about her interaction with ukrainian leader shortly after remaining at a news conference, when she was back from poland. >> i would say their conversation with president zelenskyy is no surprise, but not only his courage and his leadership, but his detailed knowledge of every subject that we brought up, into how a best way was to get food as a security, measure as an economic measure for the country. >> all, right joining us this morning from kyiv is nbc news correspondent erin mclaughlin. , erin you are literally there before this war started. as the invasion started. you have seen this whole picture. what is happened in that time, in the 67 days, is that world leaders have not only shown their support,, but they have shown up in heave to visit with volodymyr zelenskyy. what's important about this particular trip, about the highest ranking u.s. officials's thus far going to kyiv to show support for zelenskyy. how do you train anything in the end? >> these visits are seen as absolutely critical, ali, especially from ukraine's most powerful u.s. ally. and it is with gratitude that they have welcomed house speaker nancy pelosi this morning. she, on her visit, talked about how important today is that ukraine is fighting for its freedom. in her view, not just for the freedom of, ukraine but the whole of the western world. take a look what she had to say. >> we believe that we are visiting to say thank you for your fight for freedom. a frontier freedom fight this is what is right for everyone. and so our commitment is to be there for you until the fight is done. >> now, this visit occurred just days after two missiles struck the heart of the capital, as the un secretary general was a visiting kyiv. this is the aftermath of those missile strikes. one of the missile struck this factory, which was believed to be the intended targets. the other missiles struck this apartment building, killing one and injuring ten. the body of a journalist was found inside the apartment. on the morning after this missile struck. the mayor of kyiv was saying that these strikes, in his view, amount to the middle finger from russia, to not only the west but also to the united nations. others are saying that this kind of missile strike is also russia's attempt at a warning to other leaders, who might want to visit the capital, who might want to visit president zelenskyy. but clearly that warning did not go heeded by the house speaker pelosi. her visit, though. was shrouded in secrecy. she visited the capitol yesterday. we did not hear about it from ukrainians as well as u.s., until today. she is also been pushing for congress to pass that 33 billion dollars in aid that has been requested by president biden, really seen as critical to ukraine as the war continues to wage, not only in the south but also especially in the eastern portion of the country. >> aaron my friend, good to see you again. thank you for your reporting this morning. nbc's erin maclachlan, live from kyiv, ukraine,, on the side of that missile attack yesterday. the u.s. has used oil sanctions to cripple russia, but inside ukraine they are facing an oil crisis all of their own. details. ahead you are watching. guilty d you are watching guilty f cheese ♪ ♪ and the mirror from your van is halfway down the street ♪ ♪ well, you can say that -- ♪ wait, what? 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weathertech. my next guest, alexei sorkin's political editor for the kyiv independent. i want to show you something special yesterday on twitter. quote, back in kyiv, where fuel shortages now among the primary issues, long he was near gassed patients. before the war, ukraine was heavily dependent on the now destroyed conventional oil refinery on belarus, which is now at war with ukraine. alexei sorkin joins me now from the ukrainian capital of kyiv. alexei, good to see you again. this issue of fuel prices going up here in america and in western europe has held some of these governments back from full embargoes on oil from russia, where they don't want people to suffer and overthrow their governments. but now you've got in ukraine because the russians have targeted refineries and fuel depots. tell me what that does logistically, and when it does tomorrow in the fight against the russians and ukraine. >> well basically, the mayor of kyiv said that ukrainians should switch to public transport. exclusively room private cars. because the fuel is needed by the military, and the ukraine now lacks gas and other oil products because of deliberative russian attacks on storage facilities and on oil refineries. >> and yet, you tweeted on the 29th, you said, talking to our military on the front lines, coming back home more confident than ever. morale is high. we will definitely win this. when i was in ukraine i heard this gonna talk from everybody. it is still going on despite the fact that the fighting has intensified in many cases? >> well, yes. our military is very confident, especially after seeing the lack of preparation by the russians. there are equipment, which is out today to and understanding that many russian soldiers are unwilling to continue fighting. they say that those on the front lines told me that as soon as they get the new military equipment promised by the west, they will definitely have the capacity to counterattack to conduct their own offensive. once they lock now is equipment and that is what they are waiting for. >> a lot of it is coming in right as we speak, and there is been a deal to get jets from slovakia. that is coming in as well. alexei, let's talk a little bit about what you think happens next in this country. you are going to get the equipment that you need. we are showing pictures momentarily of mariupol. but these pictures, it is hard to come by. we do not have borders in mariupol. we do not know the story there. and the stories that are coming out of their sound devastating. what do we know what is happening in mariupol? >> unfortunately, it is currently impossible for ukraine to bring the siege of avoztvaz. we know that they are trying to evacuate people and civilians and soldiers from mariupol. we have heard reports that around 40 people today were evacuated from mariupol. obviously we need more. and we have a one around 100,000 people trapped in mariupol. we have reports according to ukrainian officials, according to the ombudsman of ukraine, that the russians are not allowing man to exit mariupol. they are conducted filtration, as they call it. they are checking their phones, they are questioning them. they are beating men and women and trying to find a tell to tell them stories about the ukrainian military, trying to get them to cooperate. so we know that right now the situation in mariupol is dire. and we know that russia is deliberately not allowing evacuation from mariupol, because for them, killing in destroying the city, destroying avoztvaz, which they say is neo-nazi, is a priority. so the situation is very bad. >> i just relate a story, actually, from veronika melkozerova, about some of the stories we're talking about. filtration. we can really use that word of me when i was in ukraine, i thought it was when he would water filtration. i didn't realize that what they meant was, human filtration. they are trying to figure out whether somebody is an enemy or a friends, and determining what their fate is, it is kind of remarkable that is what is happening. alexei thank you for your constant reporting on this. alexei is a political editor and chief editor for the kyiv independent. next up, my interview with margaret atwood of the handmaid's tale. this book deals grapples with issues that we deal with all the time on this show, and increasingly show. is the henry still an eerie premonitions of things to come? i'm going to ask the author directly. come i'm going to ask the autho directly had my share, man.♪ ♪i've been everywhere.♪ ♪♪ [lazer beam and sizzling sounds] ♪♪ oklahoma is one step closer to completely banning abortion, cutting off with his, still as of now, the constitutionally protected right of all americans to choose when and whether to have children. on thursday, the states republican controlled legislator passed a bill that would ban providers from offering medical or surgical abortions, after six weeks into a pregnancy. which is before many women are even aware that they are pregnant. mild on the restrictive texas abortion bill, as v eight, which went into effect last september, the oklahoma bill also allows private citizens to sue abortion providers, and anyone who helps a person get an abortion. for up to $10,000. the bill is currently on the task of the oklahoma governor, awaiting a signature which he has pledged to provide, in which could come any day now. once it is a sign, it will take effect right away. mind you, governor kevin stick signed a bill just weeks ago the dislike to effectively ban all abortions in oklahoma, by the end of this august. that bill will make performing abortions a felony offense in oklahoma, punishable by up to ten years in prison, and a 100,000 dollar fine. since the implementation of the texas abortion bill, oklahoma became a haven for texans who were seeking abortion. planned parenthood in oklahoma says that it has seen a 2500 increase in the number of patients from texas since the texas ban caught off access to women in that state. now, once oklahoma has followed suit, there will be two states full of women who can't access basic health care. andrea guy goes, who runs the tells economic in oklahoma spoke to my colleague about the dire situation that is already unfolding in oklahoma as providers prepare for the new ban. >> patients that, we had a couple walk-in today that oklahoma has a 72-hour mandated waiting period, so we cannot see them today. so it is going to be next week. and not knowing what next week looks like, having to explain to patients, we can get you scheduled for next week, but there is a very high chance that unfortunately, we won't be able to see you because of this lobbying sign. potentially next week. these restrictions do not prevent abortions. they don't stop abortions. they just add the extra burden that already exists for women trying to access care. and unfortunately these types of laws really make women become refugees, medical refugees of their own state. they have to flee their own state to find access here. >> medical refugees in the united states of america in the year 2022. quote, they have to flee their own state to find access to care. and quote. let that sink in. it is likely only going to get worse from here. according to the washington post, 13 states, including oklahoma, have introduced versions of their texas law. those of you who are not able to remember what life was like for women before roe v. wade established the right for abortions, this is what's post row america will look like. joining me now is my friend jonathan kaye part member of the sunday show. after i talk to, you you know be joined by margaret atwood, author of the handmaid's tale. the story feels eerily relevant to the time that we are in. >> absolutely. the parallels are really quite chilling. you know ali, coming up on the sunday show, we will highlight one pablo migrants planned to give teens all across the country access to free books, which have been banned. like the handmaids tail. the head of the brooklyn public library will join me to talk about it books on banned initiative. also, from the halls of congress, tim kaine, -- chair of the progressive caucus are going to join me to talk about the spending will, voting rights, and much more. plus, the nation's first out trans person till elected to its state legislator. danica rome. she will stop by to talk about her new book in the wave of anti-trans legislation sweeping the country. one more thing ali. if it is sunday, it is a packed show. sunday show favorites stopping by live onset. actress and activists cheri lee ralph, and her husband vincent hughes. coming to the sunday show. so you will definitely want to stick around for that. 10 am eastern. >> i love my friend. good to see you. we will be watching. jonathan kaye part, stay tuned for more right after velshi. the sunday show starts at 10 am eastern right here on msnbc. right after the break, i am joined by the prolific margaret atwood, author of the handmaid's tale. he did not need to look forward there than the number of times that this book has been adopted, to understand it's societal evidence residents. a ballet, an opera, a film, and the claims television series on hulu. ision series o hulu then they blame terrorists, and suspended the constitution. we didn't wake up either. now, i am awake. now, i am awake. we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. if you're turning 65 soon or over 65 and planning to retire... now's the time to learn more about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare and get help protecting yourself from the out-of-pocket costs medicare doesn't pay. because the time to prepare is before you go on medicare. don't wait. get started today. call unitedhealthcare for your free decision guide. when we first conceived of the velshi banned book club a few months ago, they were a handful of titles that kept coming. up everyone, from producers to book club members, we are requesting in emails to hear from margaret atwood. and everyone wanted to talk about the handmaids tail. if you are among the minority of booklet members who have yet to experience the handmaids tail, from either a book or tv stage or film adaptation, here is the plot. in a near future, a totalitarian theocratic military dictatorship, known as gilead, has overthrown the u.s. government. the newer jim organizes society using an extreme interpretation of the old testament. women are the lowest ranking class, prevented from owning property, reading and writing, and deprived of control over their reproductive functions. environmental catastrophes have rendered much of the population in fertile, so the government has reintroduced unforced surrogacy. all of the handmaiden a book of genesis in the bible. our narrator and our heroine, known only as alfred in the book, a slave name, meaning she's literally of fred her commander is assigned to one such family as a surrogate. weeks after president trump's inauguration in january 2017 a handmade stale saw a resurgent hit in the year times of bestsellers list after nearly three decades in print. the fictional world that margaret atwood created felt suffocatingly close to that new reality in that moment. the writing was on the wall, and on the pages of margaret atwood's bestseller, for what's felt like a possible future. she even took to wearing the full rank length web red dresses in the white onyx that are synonymous with the hints in the book, as they say, life imitating art. many years later we discuss the themes that are inherent to the handmade still every single day on velshi. the increased irritation of women's reproductive rights, the rise of autocratic regimes. flagrant disregard for environmental issues. and just yesterday, the forced removal of children from their mothers. the handmaids sale also deals daftly with book banning, and censorship. in gilead and in real life, there is one particularly powerful seen in the handmaids tale that illustrates the odd irony in bidding this book. storms are going make 38 offred recalls a time before the game was overthrown, seeing books being burned as a child. a woman asks if she would like to participate in the burning, calling, it's good riddance to bat rubbish. she goes on to describe the memory of being handed a magazine with an image of a naked woman on it. quote i threw the magazine into the flames. it rifled open in the wind of its burning. big flakes of paper came loose, sailed into the air still on fire, parts of women's bodies, turning to black, ash in the, air before my eyes. and quote. hard to imagine a title so ubiquitous could face any successful calls for a ban. but there have been many. on wednesday, as in this past week. a school district in oregon called for this the graphic novel adaptation of the book, to be removed from school shelves. this is the, here, it has pictures on it. this is the graphic novel version. there is a long list of reasons why the nhl has been targeted. most commonly the ones you are typically used to now. profanity, sex, violence. when you book club members know to be the triumvirate of objections that school boards and parents usually have for so many of these banned books. the thing is, the handmade still is deeply unsettling. it is deeply uncomfortable to reads. but that is the point. one of our banned book club members agrees. quote, the book that inspired the most thought and discourse are the ones that make us the most uneasy. they should be heralded, never bands. there is necessary to humanities growth in evolution as the air we breathe. and quote. necessary to humanities growth and evolution. it is worth noting that this particular member found the book to quote, painful and horrifying to me personally. and quote. to even get all the way through its. and yet she still recognizes its value. your decision not to read a book is a very different than the book being banned. after the break, i'm joined by the author the handmaids tale. margaret atwood. this is velshi. et atwood. this is velshi pursuing 100% re newable energy in our operations. aiming to protect, manage or restore millions of acres of land. and offering you more sustainably sourced products so you can become part of the change. so, can a company make the planet a better place? at walmart, we're working on it, every day. this is xfinity rewards. our way of showing our appreciation. with rewards of all shapes and sizes. [ cheers ] are we actually going? yes!! and once in a lifetime moments. two tickets to nascar! yes! find rewards like these and so many more in the xfinity app. welcome to the velshi banned book club joining now is margaret atwood. along with the handmaids tail she has published 18 novels, eight children's books, and more. she veritas go to the henry's tale called the testaments. she's also won numerous awards. margaret, thank you for joining, us it is a pleasure to have you here. >> a pleasure to be, here wherever you are. >> let's talk about your book, the handmaids tail. it may be an obvious and rhetorical question, but why do you think it is targeted so frequently inconsistently? >> first of, all not teaching a book in high school is not the same as totally and completely banning it. it was banned for years, in a couple of dictatorships. the one in spain anyone in portugal. it could not be published there at all. so, and the portuguese and the spanish additions were published in the new world. so, brazil and argentina. that is total banning. you cannot get a hold of it at all. and i am sure that none of us would say that parents should not have any input at all to watch their kids rate in school. we would all agree about that. and we would probably also agree that there our age consideration. for example, war and peace is not for seven-year-olds. not because of the sex, blasphemy, and violence, but because of the big words. so, it is always going to be a negotiation. and there has never been a time when you could publish absolutely anything. so that time has never existed. the goalposts have moved. but there has never -- and i think we would also probably draw the line at child pornography, using real children. or even child pornography. yes, sure. some. so it is going to be a discussion. with the handmaids tale it is the sex, violence, and also the fact that there is no talents tele-therrien regime -- that the totalitarian regime is a theocracy that purports to be question. they have of course distorted everything, but you seal of that going on around you anyway today. so the question i was asking myself was, if there were to be a to tele-therrien state in the united states, what form would you take? what would be communist? would it be? we probably refer to this in the 17th century, when the united states and the new england colonies started as a theocracy. >> and it is a huge theme in the handmaids tale. in fact some people have called it a religious critique. you make sure to separate got from gilead, the theocracy. a friend, the protagonist, even says in a later quote, i do not believe for an instance that's what is going on here is what you meant. a member of our banned book club, debonair, right wrote in on this topic. quote, i am enthralled by the portrayal of toxic religion in the handmaids tale. i'm reminded that this month marks the end adversary of the most famous protestant preacher of the day, his most famous servant at the press during church in manhattan, shall the fundamentalists win? it started a fundamentalist divide in american christianity. he goes on to write child fundamentalists when? what do you think? >> shall they win? well, once you get into it, and i have to say that some of the people most appreciative of the handmaids tale are people with theological training. they know what these arguments have been about. and they probably also know that the reason that the united states decided to have freedom of worship is that at that time in history, there had been centuries of horribly destructive religious warfare. in europe. and they did not want that happening. so, freedom of worship. and that is pretty fundamental, i think to what the united states originally purported to be about. so, shall they win? they won quite a bit politically. but that is not the same as winning in the sense of coming up with unacceptable, viable form of christianity that people could see as actually being about what's jesus was teaching. love your neighbor. how much of that do you see what? amongst people who prefer to be fundamentalists questions? they are not doing on a lot of late neighbor loving. >> one of the things that the book hits on right off the top, is woman's bodies. women's rights. reproductive matters. and abortion. we talk about access to abortion in the various implications of preventing abortions for women a lot on this show. i was particularly struck by a passage in chapter six, win offred and glenn, two friends handmaid's, walk back from shopping. and they see in the wall that is central to the book, hang to bodies. the quote is, men wear white quotes like those worn by doctors or scientists. these men we have been, told are like war criminals. it is no question that what they did was legal at the time. their crimes are retroactive. they've committed atrocities and must be made into examples for the west. though this is hardly needed. no woman in her right mind, these days, which seek to prevent a birth. end quote. the part that struck me there was, their crimes are retroactive. it is reminiscent of some of the abortion legislation we are actually seeing here in the united states. >> is it? well. that will be very interesting. because i'm sure there is going to be a lot of old medical record digging up in that case. but the real question is, does the state own your body? in the case of men right now, not. though if they brought back the draft that would be a claim on men's bodies as well. but if you are drafted, the state has a responsibility and an obligation to pay for your food, your lodging, your clothing, and your medical bills. so, if they are going to draft women's bodies, which is what it amounts to, they should pay all of those things. don't you think? >> it is a remarkable critique an evaluation of how we should be dealing with these things right now, because it is not how we are dealing with them in the u.s.. margaret atwood, thank you. margaret is the author of the handmaids tail. this is the end of our time on tv today. this conversation with margaret how it is going to continue. and soon you are going to be able to access the extended conversation, exclusively on nbc's streaming network, peacock. stay tuned to our show's twitter account for the details. we are going to let you know as soon as the extended conversation, which i'm about to have with marker that wood is available. just watch my twitter handle at ali velshi, and that velshi msnbc on twitter, for the details. until, then i'm thrilled to announce the next featured book and the author for the velshi banned book club, white fragility by robbyn deangelo. pick up a new copy or re-read your own. send his comments, questions, and reactions to my story at velshi.com. one more exciting programming note. next weekend is the launch of msnbc's newest program simone, hosted by the one and only simone sanders. watch simone on saturday and sunday's 4 pm eastern, beginning next weekend right here on msnbc. that does it for me. thanks for watching velshi. catch me or next other than sunday morning. eight to 10 am eastern. the sunday show with jonathan kaye part, begins right now. jonatha kaye part, begins right now. a surprise visit in ukraine. how speaker nancy pelosi leads a congressional delegation into kyiv, promising presents walensky full support from the united states. next step, getting a new aid package passed by congress. senator -- joins me now to discuss. save the day. the january six committee says the public hearings will begin in june. we will take a closer look at who could be on the hot seat. and, nerd prom is back. we will have some highlights from the white house correspondents dinner. >> folks, i'm not really here to host a gop. that is not my style. besides, there is nothing i can say about the gop that kevin mccarthy is not already put on tape. >> i am jonathan kaye part.