Transcripts For MSNBC The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle 202

Transcripts For MSNBC The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle 20240708



try to keep him in power. at the center of that effort, his last chief of staff, mark meadows. cnn has obtained more than 2300 text messages that meadows turned over to the january 6th committee. santa and receive election day 2020, and joe biden's inauguration. there are text from family members, trump's lawyer, former white house officials, dozens of republican house members, and campaign officials. to our from congresswoman marjorie taylor greene. on december 31st, 2020, she wrote this. quote, i'm here in d. c.. we have to get organized for the sixth. i would like to meet with rudy giuliani a gun. and here is what greenside meadows on january 6th during the capitol riot, quote, mark, i was just told there is an active shooter on the first floor of the capitol. please tell the president to call people. this isn't the way to solve anything. nbc news does not come from the thousands of text messages passed, and so far, meadows refuses to give a deposition to the january six committee. this evening, we heard from one committee member on that very subject. >> all these thousands of texts make the argument for why we need mark meadows to come in and testify to explain precisely what his role was. what was their attitude towards the violence on the streets? what was their plan? how far were they willing to take? of those ocean was that this was just a wild demonstration as uncalled by donald trump, that i got out of control. but it was really a lot more than not. >> and according to friday night's court filing from the committee, meadows was warned that the rally could become violent. the testimony to the committee, one of meadow's top aide said a senior secret service agent alerted meadows dental about possible violence. meanwhile, there is new separate legal trouble for the former president. a new york judge holding trump in contempt of court for failing to turn over documents to the state attorney general who's investigating him for fraud. trump has not been ordered to pay 10,000 bucks a day starting today, until he cooperates. and his lawyers, no surprise, are promising to appeal. with that, let's bring in this evening's first experts, a pair of pulitzer prize-winning journalist, phil rucker, deputy editor at the washington post, my caroline,-ing investigative reporter with the washington post, they coauthored the new york times bestseller, i alone can fix that. and msnbc contributor chuck rosen, former u.s. attorney, and former senior fbi official. good evening to you all. carol, on the side with you. three days, three days before their inauguration, marjorie taylor greene sent this text message to mark meadows, quote, and our private chat with only members, several are saying the only way to save our republic is for trump to call for martial law. north on your screen, she misspoke as the world marshal as though she is writing about the off price three taylor, which of course, she wasn't. now, last week, last friday night, marjorie taylor greene herself testified under oath, she couldn't telling trump or the chief of staff to declare martial law. so i'd even begin with this? are these damaging for her besides her reputation? >> it's extremely damaging, and not just because she misspelled the marshall plan versus martial law, that is where some because it indicates -- think of the two things we learned and two texts here. one, is they have a very secretive, closed door, remember only meetings, likely, i presume, freedom caucus members, why discussing, on myles, idea of martial law three days before biden has to be inaugurated. the stunning nature of this, as you can tell, stephanie, as we hadn't known that after january six, after the democracy was almost pushed off the rails by some of these freedom caucus members who were trying to put maximum pressure on congress members, we didn't realize that even after that attack, they were still pressing for this very point. and the secretive nature of it is also pretty interesting. it goes to the issue of intent. what were they hoping to do? hi go they were doing. >> chuck, here's the thing. if we were to make a list of things marjorie taylor greene has said or done that are worrisome, we'd be here all day and all night. and a court of law, does her saying she doesn't remember, is that good enough? does she get away with that? he didn't saddened with the, she said i don't remember. >> stephanie, you have to be able to prove that if it she said i don't remember, she really little member in july about remembering. and of course, that gets complicated. the way you do that is to talk to people around her and see if she had concocted some kind of story. but that's the problem with perjury cases, generally. they're very hard to prove because you need a very precise question. we need a very precise answer. and if somebody says something like, to the best of my recollection, or i don't really recall, then perjury becomes almost impossible. so, to your question, does she get away with that? probably. >> phil, i want you to take a look at some of the text messages sent to mark meadows out of insurrection was happening. former trump official mick mulvaney, quote, he, trump, he's a sub this now. congressman bill timmins, quote, the president needs to stop this asap. donald trump jr. himself writes, this is one you go to the mattresses on. they will try to f his entire legacy if this gets worse. reince priebus tells them to go home. but he is that issue, though, they read all this ungenerous except. and just a few days later, many of these very same people said the right was overblown, americans want to move on, how do they square this? or do they have to, fellow, are they bank that the new cycle moves on and her supporters are not paying attention? >> well, stephanie, it's this revisionist history. but will we see in the text messages is that even trump's most stalwart allies on capitol hill and elsewhere in the republican firm we're seeing what's going on with their own eyes. we also as americans that they, which is violent rioters storming the capitol and hurting people and trying to lay siege to our democracy. and they were alarmed, and they want to urgently for the president to call his supporters to stand down. and what we know is, it took president trump 187 minutes from when he spoke at the rally and told the supporters to go march on the capitol, until he finally reluctantly agreed to step into the rose garden at 4:17 that afternoon and deliver his video statement telling her supporters to go home. that was an excruciating period for all of those who cared about the trump legacy. who had worked and sacrificed their own character, reputations, and the service of this president to see him be silent for so long. and i think that's why you saw the urgency, the all caps messages that they packed off to mark meadows, the chief of staff. >> chuck, i want to share what former as the end prosecutor daniel goldman had to say, his reaction to these revelations, watch this. >> we're seeing text messages, more and more come out about everybody begging donald trump to intervene. but he just refused. former as the end prosecutor daniel goldman had to say, his reaction to these revelations, watch this. >> we're seeing text messages, more and more come out about everybody begging donald trump to intervene. but he just refused. what kind of a leader of any responsibility would just sit there watching, and when they have the authority to intervene, and do nothing. >> but, chuck, we know with that puck leader. trump didn't stop it because he loved it. because it was in his honor. there's no debate about that. the question is, can they take any of this information gathered and file colonel charges? >> well, i know i answered your last question with, probably, stephanie. i'm gonna answer this one with a maybe. again, it's gonna turn on and tenth. so you have to show that he read the text messages, that he understood the text messages. that he didn't care, and that he intended, this is the important part, that he intended for congress to be obstructed in the counting of the electoral vote. dan is right about the moral deficiency of our former president. that's not news. but we have to do, if you are told someone accountable in a criminal court, and prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt to a unanimous jury, it's prove intent. and prosecutors will tell you, it's always largest thing to do. that's why you have to talk to the people who were around mr. trump. you can't just rely on the text messages. they're interesting, they're important, and they may even be evidence. but they do not conclusively established intent. >> they sell books, but they might not result in punitive consequences. carol, you are our expert when it comes to the secret service. and according to friday nice january 6th committee court filing, his secret service agent had warned meadows about possible violence on the sixth. what do we know about that agent? >> it's a really complicated and controversial hosting. this was a very senior leader of president trump's protective detail for at least a year and a half. donald trump liked him so much, he wanted to make him a political adviser. we had a huge break with secret service tradition, an objective agency that's supposed to be nonpartisan. this man, 20 are not oh, was named white house deputy chief of staff. so, at the moment that he was giving donald trump political advice about how to get reelected, run good campaigns, or, for example, clear protesters who are peaceful from lafayette square on june one, one of the more authoritarian moves of trump's presidency. when he was serving donald trump, he was not a secret service agent. he was white house deputy chief of staff. he has since then returned to the secret service. but one of the most disturbing things for my source, current and former service agents, as this individual was essentially enabling donald trump and everything that he did. and here, now, we are learning that he had plenty of incidental from the secret service. that january 6th could turn bloody. and, yet, that didn't change how the department of homeland security, is department of justice, the fbi, the entities that are supposed to protect our country, from domestic extremism. that didn't change how they behaved. >> it could turn bloody, and it did. chuck, i want to ask you about trump's other issue. the legal problems he's having. he's not been held in contempt, and he's gone all 10,000 bucks a day starting today if he doesn't cooperate. but here's the thing, donald trump is well versed and not paying his bills. he's an expert in it. so what happens if he doesn't pay? >> well, first, let me distinguish something for your viewers. i know they're smart, but they may not know this. this criminal contempt, where you punish somebody for not complaining. that's on this case. under civil contempt, which is this case, we're trying to compel somebody to comply. with the dodgers doing, by finding mr. trump $10,000 a day, is trying to compel those compliance. so mr. trump holds the proverbial keystone here. you can either hand over the documents that, perhaps, he's hiding. or he can convince the judge that they have diligently search for documents, and there are no more. so, if he doesn't want to be eight and thousand dollars a day in a fine, he actually has a really easy path out of this. the question is, will he take that path, or will we continue to storm the court, and attorney general of the state of new york, and when we can do that, is by appealing the trial courts decision told him in contempt. we'll see, but if you doesn't want to pay a fine, there's a really easy way not to pay a fine. >> all right, chuck is giving us criminal consequences, civil consequences, phil, i'm learning a lot in this new book by these new reporters. and here's the thing, we've learned a lot from these books. but shameful-ness and hypocrisy, those are resulting crimes. it mueller anything that could translate into real political consequences? >> from this book, we learned a few things that helped fill out the character of the republican leaders on capitol hill. of course, the news from the jonathan marksman, alex book this week about kevin mccarthy. wanting to call or a house members telling trump to resign. but, then tonight, we learned an excerpt that our colleagues obtained, that mitch mcconnell, the senate republican leader, late in the night of january six, said that he believes that event, that right at the capitol is going to be fatal, politically, for trump. he said something along the lines of, i'm paraphrasing here, he really shot himself in that this time. referring to president trump. because he had instigated those rioters to storm the capital. and mcconnell was exhilarated. he was celebrating that moment because he thought it was finally the event that we do trump in. even inquired with the authors of this book about the 25th amendment. whether cabinet members in the administration, one of them of course, was his own wife, elaine chao. the transportation secretary. whether cabinet members of the vice president were considering some sort of laid action to remove the president from office. he seemed to be almost gleeful at the political, the dire political state that president trump on themself and in the hours after that attack. >> riveting, interesting, it will sell books. however, it is unclear if there will be any consequences. i'm interested to see those text messages with make mulaney. he joins to be as this morning and discuss this with them actually what he meant in those text. he's a contributor there now. phil rucker, carol, and chuck rosenberg, always good to see you all. coming up next, the u.s. calls for weakening russia's military as it continues its brutal assault on civilians in ukraine. former ambassador michael is standing by, and later, what happens next? now this country's most influential social media platform belongs to the world's richest man. the 11th hour just getting underway on a busy monday night. good to be back. do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even a term policy - for an immediate cash payment. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized we needed a way to supplement our income. if you have $100,000 or more of life insurance, you may qualify to sell your policy. don't cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what it's worth. visit coventrydirect.com to find out if your policy qualifies. or call the number on your screen. coventry direct, redefining insurance. xfinity mobile runs on america's most reliable 5g network, but for up to half the price of verizon, so you have more money for more stuff. this phone? fewer groceries. this phone? more groceries! this phone? fewer concert tickets. this phone? more concert tickets. and not 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scene. >> in the hours after the secretaries of defense and state completed a risky trip by train this weekend to meet with president zelenskyy in kyiv, russia has been intensifying its attacks. targeting infrastructure deep inside the country. nbc's cal perry is live for us tonight in kyiv, cal was that trip all about. was it a ceremonial show of force, where did it mean something more for them to be there? >> i think part of it was the ceremonial show of force, that being here on the ground, showing the russians that these two senior members of the u.s. government are willing to travel here. a city at war, a city going through air raid sirens, to physically show their support. we've seen it from european union leaders, now we've seen it from american leaders. the second was to deliver weapons and to deliver the news of weapons that are coming right now. and part of the mission was to say what they said to the international world when they were back in poland. and that is, that it weaker russia is what america is after. and that the tide of this war has changed. that the ukrainians now have the russians. >> help us to understand, you've been in the region two months. even into kyiv specifically, how has this country changed and what is it like there right now? >> when i was here on my first trip, i took a brief 2 to 3 -week break out. there was a lot of talk and discussion about how the ukrainians were slowing the russians down. how they were able to defend kyiv and keep the tanks on the outer edge. we saw that driving in. the destruction was everywhere, but the russians were stopped dead in their tracks on the outskirts of the city. now the discussion is about how the russians can be killed before russia fleas this country. there's concern about nuclear retaliation, there's concern that russia could use chemical weapons, but for the first time since this war started, it hears like we are from the government, that they have russia on the run. they want long-range artillery, not just to keep the russians at bay, this russian artillery goes 40 kilometers. it's determined around and pushed him back into russia. >> cal perry, thank you, good to see you again. i appreciate you joining us. i want to bring michael mcfaul into the conversation. former u.s. ambassador to russia and msnbc international affairs analyst. his book titled from cold war to hot piece, an american ambassador in putin's russia. ambassador, i want to start with what we heard from secretary blinken. this message that ukraine is winning, russia is losing. is that how ukrainians feel? i have spent the last week of volunteering at the poll and ukraine border and all of those people who are crossing the border had lost everything. they lost their homes, they were leaving their, sons they were leaving their husbands. they certainly did not feel like they were winning. so was he right to be sending that message? >> yes and no. i think that it is right to send that message about the war altogether. because remember, what were the key objectives that putin said he was going to do? first he was going to annex all of ukraine. because they do not deserve to exist as an independent nation. he's failed at that. he was going to t nazify the country, regime change kills ellen's game put his puppet in place in kyiv. he's failed at that. he was going to destroy the ukrainian military, he failed at that. take the major cities, including most importantly kyiv. he's failed at that. so now putin himself has changed the goals of their special military operation as they call it, which is the defense of donbas. so if you think about the war, that ukraine is winning. but there still is the battle of donbas. and that is where the action is now. that is where there is going to be huge casualties. ukrainians feel confident, as you were just discussing, but i think that it is premature to say that the ukrainians are just weeks away from winning the battle of donbas. i am not prepared to say that. i think that this is going to be a bloody, hard fight. >> then what do you think about secretary blinken's message that the u.s. is going to reopen its embassy in ukraine. eventually he predicted that diplomats are going to be back in the capital within weeks. >> fabulous. and i really want to give my congratulations to them to make that trip. i talked to one of the senior officials on the ukrainian side in that meeting today and it was more than symbolism. they had a very substantive conversation about concrete military assistance that they need. and a big discussion about sanctions to. which the ukrainians really want the west now to focus on. especially now that president macron has won reelection. and third, it will be very important, they announced the nominee brigitte bring, i know bridget, she's a fantastic hire. i hope that the senate will not do the things that they do these days and get her through. because they want to have americans in kyiv. by the way, they want to have military officers from the united states in kyiv, so that they can talk to them on a daily basis. and that is what comes when you have the embassy open there, as opposed to in poland or lviv. >> your team i know has been working out ideas for new sanctions. when i was away last week, i met with a lot of people who had family still living in russia. russians and their parents, their siblings in russia. and they told me that over the last ten years, since the country has become more and more isolated, russia has become self sustaining. people need fewer and fewer things, because they have not had foreign businesses to be relied on. and they are not actually feeling the sanctions so much. do you see that to be true? >> now. individuals may think that, most certainly the farther you live from moscow on the major cities. sanctions have left impact on you there. but if you are trying to build tanks, not being able to get the chips that you need to build those tanks, has a very direct effect. if you are in the oil and gas industry and you need technology to come in, it has a very direct effect. don't believe me, listen to the government officials when they talk about the giant economic kit that they are going to suffer this year because of sanctions. it does not mean that putin is going to pull it right away, but sanctions are having economic consequences, especially for the big cities in russia. >> all right then. we are going to leave on that note, ambassador, always good to see you, thank you for making us smarter. coming up, he is a billionaire making really big promises, including authenticating all humans. what elon musk buying his new twitter toy will mean for the rest of us, when the 11th hour continues. do you struggle to fall asleep and stay asleep? qunol sleep formula combines 5 key nutrients that can help you fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer, and wake up refreshed. the brand i trust is qunol. and it's easier than ever to get your projects done right. with angi, you can connect with and see ratings and reviews. and when you book and pay throug you're covered by our happiness check out angi.com today. angi... and done. the world's richest guy a set the by one of the world's most influential social media companies. after weeks of uncertainty, elon musk struck a deal to by twitter at a price of a roughly 44 billion bucks. but the question is, those are gonna do with it? twitter as a company, as a stop, has massively underperformed. that is not a secret. activists have tried to change it, but it is such a huge undertaking, from conflict, the politics, and craziness. those who can raise the money to buy, it don't want to responsibility and headache. so it is a gonna look like? and for that, let's welcome new york times contributing writer my dear friend kara swisher. and nbc news correspondent jake moran, who was covering disinformation and studies the effects of social media on human behavior. kara, you are in illinois ask expert. he might be the only person with the money, the brazenness, and the level of chaos to actually do this. but now, here we are, what's gonna look like? >> the last two are critically important, as you know. this is really kind of a big swing for him. and, he's doing something that a lot of people sort of wanted to do, but couldn't, because of the controversy, or the anti-trust group, or anything else. and he was probably one of the few in the position to pull off something like this. i don't know it is gonna look like, he talks about ringers free speech by former. not sure what that means, is out of insults advertising as diversity in a very similar tweet, interestingly lee similar tweet. he talked about it being a place where the stressed, those open algorithm. there's a lot of words, and as a word salad, we'll see what it means an execution going forward. but where we actually want, see is because we won't be able to see in this company anymore if it goes private. >> okay, but jake, it's great to talk about these things and platitudes. right now, elon musk has the privilege of being a heckler posing as a free speech warrior. but what he's about to become is a massive content moderator, on one of the biggest platforms. is that a job that he wants to do? >> you know, it is not at all clear here, stephanie, that his incredible popularity on twitter, right, he has over 80 million followers, in any way qualified summer prepares him to run the party, right? you can't necessarily gain the experience you need being in charge of one of the world's top political and social interaction platforms just because you're really one of the loudest voices on it. as kara pointed out, there's really no telling of this is going to look like, especially because this guy has no experience whatsoever with any of the lines of business involved in twitter. he has no media experience, he has no experience with advertising. that's what isn't even really advertise. and idea that he's also now essentially going to be the referee of major political speech around the world, including possibly, the decision of whether or not the bring donald trump back on to the platform. and in doing so, possibly supercharge a second presidential bid. all of that is going to be way outside voting on most cars ever them before. now, even though he is of course so accomplished that there is an industry. >> given all of that, kara, that he might not like the daily grind of this job, this green is going to put on his life. should we be thinking about when and if he doesn't like this, who could he end up selling it to? >> well, he could run it for a while, and then take a public again. i think he's gonna keep in the grand ceo. obviously, jack dorsey is involved. he tweeted an unusual tweet about radio had, enough some, there's a way it should be. it sounds like he was putting in a way, i'm not even sure, i can't even tell. obviously, jeff bezos way way than in a negative tweets. but, i honestly think he's going to run it, and then possibly take it public again in a different format, a different form with maybe a different business, maybe not advertising, and we subscription. maybe public square. maybe it'll become a utility, a public utility. who knows? >> on a show that week by twitter cofounder jack dorsey where he writes, and principle, i don't believe anyone should own or run twitter. it wants to be a public good at a political level, not a company. solving for the problem of it being a company, however, -- here's the thing, i do love it when these brazilian airs talk about, let's just do public good, and no one should own it. finding twitter zalmay jack dorsey the billionaire he is today. so that is hard for me to stomach. >> it might be, yesterday i woke up second 11, i don't know if that's the raiders had lyric that recorded. i don't know what to say. i honestly -- there is not a wacky or a group of people than these that people, and they're moving around assets in a really unusual way. elon is on the hook for a lot of money, you started the business, stephanie, you know this means. these, banks and these loans. he's gotta make, good or i don't know what's. i honestly don't know what, actually. >> let's go to the white, this thing isn't a done deal. jake, talk to us about the hurdles he still needs to go through. we are months away. people are going, oh my god, trump is gonna be on twitter tomorrow. no, this is not a done deal. >> no, that's right. it has to go through, certainly, the regulatory hurdles. there's no indication that anyone in the federal level is gonna give it away, because he's not buying a competitor. there's almost 90 just issues here. so that's probably gonna go forward. the truth of the matter is, he does have the money. he has at least put up a huge amount of, they sickly, his ownership of tesla as collateral. if that's lowered somehow tank as a company, and the stock would go down, you will certainly have to repay that that really quick. but right, now that was doing great. and, so he does seem to have that firepower to make this happen. but he's gonna run into all kinds of crazy problems. the election is one thing, to think about this. stephanie, the european union just passed one of the most sweeping regulatory changes in the history of the internet, the digital services act, which is going to make platforms like twitter financially and legally responsible for hate speech if it goes up on there. this, at a time when disguised buying the stuff, after talking and at that conference about wanting to basically open this thing up, and get much this free speech platform. he was asked if there was something in the gray area, was their attitude about that? well, there's a tweet in this area, yeah i have to leave it up. you have this guy in charge in a time where all of these people are thinking about how these bathrooms need to be moderated and studied, and still is gonna make a private. there's no indication that he's gonna go along with any of that. so, as cameras, it's a weird piece of news. this guy is such a strange person to be taking over something like this. it's a very surreal day for all of us who watch the stuff. >> and what is gray area that the color blind? kara, last question to you. is it a foregone conclusion that trump is gonna be back on twitter? >> i think if you wanted to be, i think elon was against the ban at the time, so i would assume he continues to be that way. trump is messing around with a rumble, and some sad little merger over there. they are trying to revive trump's social app. and he said he wasn't, i think you can resist, honestly. if he runs, he's gonna be on twitter. he just can't resist. he just can't quit it, let's just say that way. >> he just can't quit it. cara swisher, jake ward, thank you so much. when we come back, speaking of the former president, he's on the campaign trail and ohio while his former vice president visits the state of iowa. last a former republican congressman of there is a still place and the party for those who break the trump. and when the 11th hour continues. do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even a term policy - for an immediate cash payment. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized we needed a way to supplement our income. if you have $100,000 or more of life insurance, you may qualify to sell your policy. don't cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what it's worth. visit coventrydirect.com to find out if your policy qualifies. or call the number on your screen. coventry direct, redefining insurance. the sleep number 360® smart bed is on sale now. why choose proven quality sleep from sleep number? because the sleep number 360® smart bed is really smart. it senses your movement and automatically adjusts to help keep you both comfortable all night. it's also temperature balancing, so you 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meanwhile, trump's own vice president is still refusing to apologize for not going along with trump's plan to illegally subvert the 2020 election on january 6th. mike pence was in iowa, again this weekend, perhaps leaving his options open as a trump alternative in 2024. let us discuss. i want to welcome former florida publican congressman, carlos carmella. member of the republican conference for two years during the trump presidency and he is also an msnbc political analyst. good evening, i want to start with what former georgia senator david perdue, now running for governor opened last night's debate with. a proven lie. watch this >> first off folks, let me be very clear tonight, the election in 2020 was rigged and stolen. all of the madness that we see from the biden administration, 2 million illegals, rising gas prices, unbelievable inflation, the brink of war, all of that has started here in georgia when our government came and allowed radical democrats to steal our election. >> david perdue is not a dumb man, he knows that what he did was tell a lot, but is this the formula? repeat trump's 2020 election law, get his endorsement and win the election. is that how this works? and if it, is how is pence's strategy going to work out? >> steph, good evening. what you saw there is a man who is desperate. despite having donald trump's support, he is down in the polls and that is why he is willing to lock, lately on television like that. just to try to win over those trump supporters who still are not supporting him. and that is the playbook, that is going to be on display this whole primary season in the republican party. which republicans continue subscribing to this lie? trying to survive, just hoping to get another opportunity to serve an elected office and which ones embrace the truth. to the defense of mike pence, even though a lot of people disagree with the way that he conducted himself while he was vice president, right at the end, he refused to go along with trump's lies and here, two years later, he continues speaking the truth. and we will see where that goes, pence is respected among the republican party and he is a true conservative and he is also committed to the truth and now you are right stephanie that may or may not work but that is what is going to be answered this primary season, is the republican party still a fully owned subsidiary of the trump organization, or will it go back to being an entity of its own, with people who, whether we agree or disagree with, them say the truth. >> they might want to look out, being a fully owned subsidiary of the trump organization, new slashed, it's gone bankrupt six times. in utah, former republican evan mcmullin, he is now running as an independent against mike lee, and he just accepted the endorsement of the saints democrats, what do you think of that move? >> evan mcmullin has been committed to fighting donald trump since 2016 and he has planted his flag in utah, he did gain some traction in the past and now he is trying to build a coalition, not necessarily of people who agree on policy, but on people who agree that politicians should be honest, or should at least be committed to say the truth. so, we will see if this strategy works out for mcmullin, but you have to give credit to some of these conservatives and republicans who are trying every possible strategy to defeat trumpism, because they know that it is not only bad for the republican party long term, it is also dangerous for the country. and so kudos to mcmullin for going out there and trying to build a coalition of utah's sue care about the truth and who understand how mike lee seems to have been intimately of involved in the process to try to overturn the january 6th, 2020 election. ultimately, he did do the right thing and certify the results, but boy, did our country pay a heavy price for the propagation of that lie. >> okay, i am out of time, but i must, must. asked trump said that he would take anyone over mitch mcconnell four republican senate leader. if republicans take the senate, do you think there is anybody who can beat mcconnell? let's remember, you might not like mitch mcconnell, might not be a great guys to hang out with, but he is hugely powerful. maniacal, strategic. last i checked, he won his last election and trump lost. >> step, mitch mcconnell staying in power is extraordinary. right now, it seems like he is the only republican who has confronted trump on numerous occasions. who has called out donald trump's lies. i know that his record has not been perfect according to many, but certainly there is a few times where he has been explicit in denouncing trump. we know that he has not spoken to him since before the 2020 election, and he still has extraordinary support inside of the senate republican conference. my money is on mitch mcconnell always. >> he is one strategic beast. but you mcconnell, carlos avelo, always good to, see you thanks for joining us tonight. >> when we come back, the best of humanity, my takeaway from spending a week in poland, when the 11th hour continues. >> the last thing before we go tonight, the best of humanity. i was not here at the anchor desk last week, because my son and i spent his swing brink volunteering at the poll and ukraine border. one of the biggest and clearest takeaways from working with refugees, is that this is a war against humanity itself. mothers and children, senior citizens forced from their homes and their country. to places where they do not speak the language, they don't have any contacts, and they don't have a plan. you're going to see a lot more con -- on the play of these refugees and the devastation of this war. however, i also want to share that amid this tragedy, i had the privilege of witnessing the absolute best of humanity. we spent the week working with ph. polish humanitarian action group. working around the clock at border crossings to help ukrainians through their resettlement process. we also volunteered with world central kitchen, who's preparing an incredible 300,000 meals a day to those impacted by the war. every age, race, demographics, all coming together with one singularly focused mission, to help those who need it most. i want to share this guy. then do sang, a lawyer from kentucky. he is living in a hostile. shows up at the border every single day, sometimes in a chicken suit, other days you see it right there in a hot pink bunny suit. to give kids a comforting treat. famed chef mark murphy, seen here at the left, let our kitchen and has been there for seven weeks straight, without one single day off. a french volunteer named fabian, saying here in maroon on the left, he left the group, headed home to france just for the weekend, one reason, to vote for macron. now he is headed back to poland. alex dennis blanco, he was the leader of my group. a russian born logistics expert. the leading w c k volunteer and he has no plans to go home anytime soon. yesterday, he led an orthodox easter egg project at the refugee center, which currently holds hundreds and hundreds of displaced children. and during my time there with alex, we shipped out an astounding 14,000 sandwiches. as my son pointed out, that when there is so much chaos, the only thing that you want to do is do your small part. there is no time to think about problems that you have at home. issues in your personal life, none of that matters. all that you can do is focus on how do you get four slices of cheese on up on as fast as possible. and many of these photos were taking by robin claire, if we are combat photographer, who leaves poland and is now heading to libya. before returning home to the states. each one of these people, extraordinary humans, many of them staying in hospitals and hotels an hour away from the volunteer site, because housing is in such short supply because of refugee needs. they show up seven days a week, 12 hour shifts, many of them canceling their plans to return home. at the border, when we worked with ph, i'm a polish man who left his job in poland to volunteer at the pedestrian border crossing. that is where the refugees are in need of the most assistance, because they are arriving by foot, with only what they carry. and chances are, they do not have the, money they don't have a place to go, they just need help. i also gained a new appreciation for the importance of doing things, i coats, hats, books. reminded you those things, but sometimes we forget about it when we clean our basements, our closets. but i can tell, you that when a bus comes across the border with a five year old that has been traveling for days, the only thing on earth that you want to do is dig through that donation bin and find the perfect stuffed animal, or maybe a fire truck. same goes for a winter coat in the right size for an older gentleman who made the trip that. one for my son, who like me, could not speak ukrainian, could not speak russian, and did not have the information or the skills to help people with what they needed most. just the act of blowing bubbles for hours was somehow and injection of joy that we all seemed to need. and to the polish people, so many opening their homes, offering rides, leaving their own jobs to volunteer on their days off. surely embracing the principle of love thy neighbor. it was astounding. my point is this, in the face of so much darkness, i want you to know that on the ground, there is also so much light. and while i come home saddened, i am also incredibly inspired. there are so many good people doing great things and tonight i want to honor them. we are going to talk a lot more about this war and the extremely difficult days ahead. but tonight, i leave you with this message. that there is light and it is being led by service organizations, governments and volunteers like you and me. putin's inhumane moore is also bringing out the best in humanity. and on that note, i wish you all a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late with me, good to be back. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. tonight on all in, -- scientists have a name for this kind of coup. -- >> new text messages and new filing from the january six committee, tonight, congressman jamie raskin on new revelations about the secret service, why mike pence refuses to leave the capitol with them and we are learning from thousands of text messages from trump's chief of staff, that showed refresh some fading memories. >> did you advocate for

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Transcripts For MSNBC The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle 20240708 : Comparemela.com

Transcripts For MSNBC The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle 20240708

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try to keep him in power. at the center of that effort, his last chief of staff, mark meadows. cnn has obtained more than 2300 text messages that meadows turned over to the january 6th committee. santa and receive election day 2020, and joe biden's inauguration. there are text from family members, trump's lawyer, former white house officials, dozens of republican house members, and campaign officials. to our from congresswoman marjorie taylor greene. on december 31st, 2020, she wrote this. quote, i'm here in d. c.. we have to get organized for the sixth. i would like to meet with rudy giuliani a gun. and here is what greenside meadows on january 6th during the capitol riot, quote, mark, i was just told there is an active shooter on the first floor of the capitol. please tell the president to call people. this isn't the way to solve anything. nbc news does not come from the thousands of text messages passed, and so far, meadows refuses to give a deposition to the january six committee. this evening, we heard from one committee member on that very subject. >> all these thousands of texts make the argument for why we need mark meadows to come in and testify to explain precisely what his role was. what was their attitude towards the violence on the streets? what was their plan? how far were they willing to take? of those ocean was that this was just a wild demonstration as uncalled by donald trump, that i got out of control. but it was really a lot more than not. >> and according to friday night's court filing from the committee, meadows was warned that the rally could become violent. the testimony to the committee, one of meadow's top aide said a senior secret service agent alerted meadows dental about possible violence. meanwhile, there is new separate legal trouble for the former president. a new york judge holding trump in contempt of court for failing to turn over documents to the state attorney general who's investigating him for fraud. trump has not been ordered to pay 10,000 bucks a day starting today, until he cooperates. and his lawyers, no surprise, are promising to appeal. with that, let's bring in this evening's first experts, a pair of pulitzer prize-winning journalist, phil rucker, deputy editor at the washington post, my caroline,-ing investigative reporter with the washington post, they coauthored the new york times bestseller, i alone can fix that. and msnbc contributor chuck rosen, former u.s. attorney, and former senior fbi official. good evening to you all. carol, on the side with you. three days, three days before their inauguration, marjorie taylor greene sent this text message to mark meadows, quote, and our private chat with only members, several are saying the only way to save our republic is for trump to call for martial law. north on your screen, she misspoke as the world marshal as though she is writing about the off price three taylor, which of course, she wasn't. now, last week, last friday night, marjorie taylor greene herself testified under oath, she couldn't telling trump or the chief of staff to declare martial law. so i'd even begin with this? are these damaging for her besides her reputation? >> it's extremely damaging, and not just because she misspelled the marshall plan versus martial law, that is where some because it indicates -- think of the two things we learned and two texts here. one, is they have a very secretive, closed door, remember only meetings, likely, i presume, freedom caucus members, why discussing, on myles, idea of martial law three days before biden has to be inaugurated. the stunning nature of this, as you can tell, stephanie, as we hadn't known that after january six, after the democracy was almost pushed off the rails by some of these freedom caucus members who were trying to put maximum pressure on congress members, we didn't realize that even after that attack, they were still pressing for this very point. and the secretive nature of it is also pretty interesting. it goes to the issue of intent. what were they hoping to do? hi go they were doing. >> chuck, here's the thing. if we were to make a list of things marjorie taylor greene has said or done that are worrisome, we'd be here all day and all night. and a court of law, does her saying she doesn't remember, is that good enough? does she get away with that? he didn't saddened with the, she said i don't remember. >> stephanie, you have to be able to prove that if it she said i don't remember, she really little member in july about remembering. and of course, that gets complicated. the way you do that is to talk to people around her and see if she had concocted some kind of story. but that's the problem with perjury cases, generally. they're very hard to prove because you need a very precise question. we need a very precise answer. and if somebody says something like, to the best of my recollection, or i don't really recall, then perjury becomes almost impossible. so, to your question, does she get away with that? probably. >> phil, i want you to take a look at some of the text messages sent to mark meadows out of insurrection was happening. former trump official mick mulvaney, quote, he, trump, he's a sub this now. congressman bill timmins, quote, the president needs to stop this asap. donald trump jr. himself writes, this is one you go to the mattresses on. they will try to f his entire legacy if this gets worse. reince priebus tells them to go home. but he is that issue, though, they read all this ungenerous except. and just a few days later, many of these very same people said the right was overblown, americans want to move on, how do they square this? or do they have to, fellow, are they bank that the new cycle moves on and her supporters are not paying attention? >> well, stephanie, it's this revisionist history. but will we see in the text messages is that even trump's most stalwart allies on capitol hill and elsewhere in the republican firm we're seeing what's going on with their own eyes. we also as americans that they, which is violent rioters storming the capitol and hurting people and trying to lay siege to our democracy. and they were alarmed, and they want to urgently for the president to call his supporters to stand down. and what we know is, it took president trump 187 minutes from when he spoke at the rally and told the supporters to go march on the capitol, until he finally reluctantly agreed to step into the rose garden at 4:17 that afternoon and deliver his video statement telling her supporters to go home. that was an excruciating period for all of those who cared about the trump legacy. who had worked and sacrificed their own character, reputations, and the service of this president to see him be silent for so long. and i think that's why you saw the urgency, the all caps messages that they packed off to mark meadows, the chief of staff. >> chuck, i want to share what former as the end prosecutor daniel goldman had to say, his reaction to these revelations, watch this. >> we're seeing text messages, more and more come out about everybody begging donald trump to intervene. but he just refused. former as the end prosecutor daniel goldman had to say, his reaction to these revelations, watch this. >> we're seeing text messages, more and more come out about everybody begging donald trump to intervene. but he just refused. what kind of a leader of any responsibility would just sit there watching, and when they have the authority to intervene, and do nothing. >> but, chuck, we know with that puck leader. trump didn't stop it because he loved it. because it was in his honor. there's no debate about that. the question is, can they take any of this information gathered and file colonel charges? >> well, i know i answered your last question with, probably, stephanie. i'm gonna answer this one with a maybe. again, it's gonna turn on and tenth. so you have to show that he read the text messages, that he understood the text messages. that he didn't care, and that he intended, this is the important part, that he intended for congress to be obstructed in the counting of the electoral vote. dan is right about the moral deficiency of our former president. that's not news. but we have to do, if you are told someone accountable in a criminal court, and prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt to a unanimous jury, it's prove intent. and prosecutors will tell you, it's always largest thing to do. that's why you have to talk to the people who were around mr. trump. you can't just rely on the text messages. they're interesting, they're important, and they may even be evidence. but they do not conclusively established intent. >> they sell books, but they might not result in punitive consequences. carol, you are our expert when it comes to the secret service. and according to friday nice january 6th committee court filing, his secret service agent had warned meadows about possible violence on the sixth. what do we know about that agent? >> it's a really complicated and controversial hosting. this was a very senior leader of president trump's protective detail for at least a year and a half. donald trump liked him so much, he wanted to make him a political adviser. we had a huge break with secret service tradition, an objective agency that's supposed to be nonpartisan. this man, 20 are not oh, was named white house deputy chief of staff. so, at the moment that he was giving donald trump political advice about how to get reelected, run good campaigns, or, for example, clear protesters who are peaceful from lafayette square on june one, one of the more authoritarian moves of trump's presidency. when he was serving donald trump, he was not a secret service agent. he was white house deputy chief of staff. he has since then returned to the secret service. but one of the most disturbing things for my source, current and former service agents, as this individual was essentially enabling donald trump and everything that he did. and here, now, we are learning that he had plenty of incidental from the secret service. that january 6th could turn bloody. and, yet, that didn't change how the department of homeland security, is department of justice, the fbi, the entities that are supposed to protect our country, from domestic extremism. that didn't change how they behaved. >> it could turn bloody, and it did. chuck, i want to ask you about trump's other issue. the legal problems he's having. he's not been held in contempt, and he's gone all 10,000 bucks a day starting today if he doesn't cooperate. but here's the thing, donald trump is well versed and not paying his bills. he's an expert in it. so what happens if he doesn't pay? >> well, first, let me distinguish something for your viewers. i know they're smart, but they may not know this. this criminal contempt, where you punish somebody for not complaining. that's on this case. under civil contempt, which is this case, we're trying to compel somebody to comply. with the dodgers doing, by finding mr. trump $10,000 a day, is trying to compel those compliance. so mr. trump holds the proverbial keystone here. you can either hand over the documents that, perhaps, he's hiding. or he can convince the judge that they have diligently search for documents, and there are no more. so, if he doesn't want to be eight and thousand dollars a day in a fine, he actually has a really easy path out of this. the question is, will he take that path, or will we continue to storm the court, and attorney general of the state of new york, and when we can do that, is by appealing the trial courts decision told him in contempt. we'll see, but if you doesn't want to pay a fine, there's a really easy way not to pay a fine. >> all right, chuck is giving us criminal consequences, civil consequences, phil, i'm learning a lot in this new book by these new reporters. and here's the thing, we've learned a lot from these books. but shameful-ness and hypocrisy, those are resulting crimes. it mueller anything that could translate into real political consequences? >> from this book, we learned a few things that helped fill out the character of the republican leaders on capitol hill. of course, the news from the jonathan marksman, alex book this week about kevin mccarthy. wanting to call or a house members telling trump to resign. but, then tonight, we learned an excerpt that our colleagues obtained, that mitch mcconnell, the senate republican leader, late in the night of january six, said that he believes that event, that right at the capitol is going to be fatal, politically, for trump. he said something along the lines of, i'm paraphrasing here, he really shot himself in that this time. referring to president trump. because he had instigated those rioters to storm the capital. and mcconnell was exhilarated. he was celebrating that moment because he thought it was finally the event that we do trump in. even inquired with the authors of this book about the 25th amendment. whether cabinet members in the administration, one of them of course, was his own wife, elaine chao. the transportation secretary. whether cabinet members of the vice president were considering some sort of laid action to remove the president from office. he seemed to be almost gleeful at the political, the dire political state that president trump on themself and in the hours after that attack. >> riveting, interesting, it will sell books. however, it is unclear if there will be any consequences. i'm interested to see those text messages with make mulaney. he joins to be as this morning and discuss this with them actually what he meant in those text. he's a contributor there now. phil rucker, carol, and chuck rosenberg, always good to see you all. coming up next, the u.s. calls for weakening russia's military as it continues its brutal assault on civilians in ukraine. former ambassador michael is standing by, and later, what happens next? now this country's most influential social media platform belongs to the world's richest man. the 11th hour just getting underway on a busy monday night. good to be back. do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even a term policy - for an immediate cash payment. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized we needed a way to supplement our income. if you have $100,000 or more of life insurance, you may qualify to sell your policy. don't cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what it's worth. visit coventrydirect.com to find out if your policy qualifies. or call the number on your screen. coventry direct, redefining insurance. xfinity mobile runs on america's most reliable 5g network, but for up to half the price of verizon, so you have more money for more stuff. this phone? fewer groceries. this phone? more groceries! this phone? fewer concert tickets. this phone? more concert tickets. and not 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scene. >> in the hours after the secretaries of defense and state completed a risky trip by train this weekend to meet with president zelenskyy in kyiv, russia has been intensifying its attacks. targeting infrastructure deep inside the country. nbc's cal perry is live for us tonight in kyiv, cal was that trip all about. was it a ceremonial show of force, where did it mean something more for them to be there? >> i think part of it was the ceremonial show of force, that being here on the ground, showing the russians that these two senior members of the u.s. government are willing to travel here. a city at war, a city going through air raid sirens, to physically show their support. we've seen it from european union leaders, now we've seen it from american leaders. the second was to deliver weapons and to deliver the news of weapons that are coming right now. and part of the mission was to say what they said to the international world when they were back in poland. and that is, that it weaker russia is what america is after. and that the tide of this war has changed. that the ukrainians now have the russians. >> help us to understand, you've been in the region two months. even into kyiv specifically, how has this country changed and what is it like there right now? >> when i was here on my first trip, i took a brief 2 to 3 -week break out. there was a lot of talk and discussion about how the ukrainians were slowing the russians down. how they were able to defend kyiv and keep the tanks on the outer edge. we saw that driving in. the destruction was everywhere, but the russians were stopped dead in their tracks on the outskirts of the city. now the discussion is about how the russians can be killed before russia fleas this country. there's concern about nuclear retaliation, there's concern that russia could use chemical weapons, but for the first time since this war started, it hears like we are from the government, that they have russia on the run. they want long-range artillery, not just to keep the russians at bay, this russian artillery goes 40 kilometers. it's determined around and pushed him back into russia. >> cal perry, thank you, good to see you again. i appreciate you joining us. i want to bring michael mcfaul into the conversation. former u.s. ambassador to russia and msnbc international affairs analyst. his book titled from cold war to hot piece, an american ambassador in putin's russia. ambassador, i want to start with what we heard from secretary blinken. this message that ukraine is winning, russia is losing. is that how ukrainians feel? i have spent the last week of volunteering at the poll and ukraine border and all of those people who are crossing the border had lost everything. they lost their homes, they were leaving their, sons they were leaving their husbands. they certainly did not feel like they were winning. so was he right to be sending that message? >> yes and no. i think that it is right to send that message about the war altogether. because remember, what were the key objectives that putin said he was going to do? first he was going to annex all of ukraine. because they do not deserve to exist as an independent nation. he's failed at that. he was going to t nazify the country, regime change kills ellen's game put his puppet in place in kyiv. he's failed at that. he was going to destroy the ukrainian military, he failed at that. take the major cities, including most importantly kyiv. he's failed at that. so now putin himself has changed the goals of their special military operation as they call it, which is the defense of donbas. so if you think about the war, that ukraine is winning. but there still is the battle of donbas. and that is where the action is now. that is where there is going to be huge casualties. ukrainians feel confident, as you were just discussing, but i think that it is premature to say that the ukrainians are just weeks away from winning the battle of donbas. i am not prepared to say that. i think that this is going to be a bloody, hard fight. >> then what do you think about secretary blinken's message that the u.s. is going to reopen its embassy in ukraine. eventually he predicted that diplomats are going to be back in the capital within weeks. >> fabulous. and i really want to give my congratulations to them to make that trip. i talked to one of the senior officials on the ukrainian side in that meeting today and it was more than symbolism. they had a very substantive conversation about concrete military assistance that they need. and a big discussion about sanctions to. which the ukrainians really want the west now to focus on. especially now that president macron has won reelection. and third, it will be very important, they announced the nominee brigitte bring, i know bridget, she's a fantastic hire. i hope that the senate will not do the things that they do these days and get her through. because they want to have americans in kyiv. by the way, they want to have military officers from the united states in kyiv, so that they can talk to them on a daily basis. and that is what comes when you have the embassy open there, as opposed to in poland or lviv. >> your team i know has been working out ideas for new sanctions. when i was away last week, i met with a lot of people who had family still living in russia. russians and their parents, their siblings in russia. and they told me that over the last ten years, since the country has become more and more isolated, russia has become self sustaining. people need fewer and fewer things, because they have not had foreign businesses to be relied on. and they are not actually feeling the sanctions so much. do you see that to be true? >> now. individuals may think that, most certainly the farther you live from moscow on the major cities. sanctions have left impact on you there. but if you are trying to build tanks, not being able to get the chips that you need to build those tanks, has a very direct effect. if you are in the oil and gas industry and you need technology to come in, it has a very direct effect. don't believe me, listen to the government officials when they talk about the giant economic kit that they are going to suffer this year because of sanctions. it does not mean that putin is going to pull it right away, but sanctions are having economic consequences, especially for the big cities in russia. >> all right then. we are going to leave on that note, ambassador, always good to see you, thank you for making us smarter. coming up, he is a billionaire making really big promises, including authenticating all humans. what elon musk buying his new twitter toy will mean for the rest of us, when the 11th hour continues. do you struggle to fall asleep and stay asleep? qunol sleep formula combines 5 key nutrients that can help you fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer, and wake up refreshed. the brand i trust is qunol. and it's easier than ever to get your projects done right. with angi, you can connect with and see ratings and reviews. and when you book and pay throug you're covered by our happiness check out angi.com today. angi... and done. the world's richest guy a set the by one of the world's most influential social media companies. after weeks of uncertainty, elon musk struck a deal to by twitter at a price of a roughly 44 billion bucks. but the question is, those are gonna do with it? twitter as a company, as a stop, has massively underperformed. that is not a secret. activists have tried to change it, but it is such a huge undertaking, from conflict, the politics, and craziness. those who can raise the money to buy, it don't want to responsibility and headache. so it is a gonna look like? and for that, let's welcome new york times contributing writer my dear friend kara swisher. and nbc news correspondent jake moran, who was covering disinformation and studies the effects of social media on human behavior. kara, you are in illinois ask expert. he might be the only person with the money, the brazenness, and the level of chaos to actually do this. but now, here we are, what's gonna look like? >> the last two are critically important, as you know. this is really kind of a big swing for him. and, he's doing something that a lot of people sort of wanted to do, but couldn't, because of the controversy, or the anti-trust group, or anything else. and he was probably one of the few in the position to pull off something like this. i don't know it is gonna look like, he talks about ringers free speech by former. not sure what that means, is out of insults advertising as diversity in a very similar tweet, interestingly lee similar tweet. he talked about it being a place where the stressed, those open algorithm. there's a lot of words, and as a word salad, we'll see what it means an execution going forward. but where we actually want, see is because we won't be able to see in this company anymore if it goes private. >> okay, but jake, it's great to talk about these things and platitudes. right now, elon musk has the privilege of being a heckler posing as a free speech warrior. but what he's about to become is a massive content moderator, on one of the biggest platforms. is that a job that he wants to do? >> you know, it is not at all clear here, stephanie, that his incredible popularity on twitter, right, he has over 80 million followers, in any way qualified summer prepares him to run the party, right? you can't necessarily gain the experience you need being in charge of one of the world's top political and social interaction platforms just because you're really one of the loudest voices on it. as kara pointed out, there's really no telling of this is going to look like, especially because this guy has no experience whatsoever with any of the lines of business involved in twitter. he has no media experience, he has no experience with advertising. that's what isn't even really advertise. and idea that he's also now essentially going to be the referee of major political speech around the world, including possibly, the decision of whether or not the bring donald trump back on to the platform. and in doing so, possibly supercharge a second presidential bid. all of that is going to be way outside voting on most cars ever them before. now, even though he is of course so accomplished that there is an industry. >> given all of that, kara, that he might not like the daily grind of this job, this green is going to put on his life. should we be thinking about when and if he doesn't like this, who could he end up selling it to? >> well, he could run it for a while, and then take a public again. i think he's gonna keep in the grand ceo. obviously, jack dorsey is involved. he tweeted an unusual tweet about radio had, enough some, there's a way it should be. it sounds like he was putting in a way, i'm not even sure, i can't even tell. obviously, jeff bezos way way than in a negative tweets. but, i honestly think he's going to run it, and then possibly take it public again in a different format, a different form with maybe a different business, maybe not advertising, and we subscription. maybe public square. maybe it'll become a utility, a public utility. who knows? >> on a show that week by twitter cofounder jack dorsey where he writes, and principle, i don't believe anyone should own or run twitter. it wants to be a public good at a political level, not a company. solving for the problem of it being a company, however, -- here's the thing, i do love it when these brazilian airs talk about, let's just do public good, and no one should own it. finding twitter zalmay jack dorsey the billionaire he is today. so that is hard for me to stomach. >> it might be, yesterday i woke up second 11, i don't know if that's the raiders had lyric that recorded. i don't know what to say. i honestly -- there is not a wacky or a group of people than these that people, and they're moving around assets in a really unusual way. elon is on the hook for a lot of money, you started the business, stephanie, you know this means. these, banks and these loans. he's gotta make, good or i don't know what's. i honestly don't know what, actually. >> let's go to the white, this thing isn't a done deal. jake, talk to us about the hurdles he still needs to go through. we are months away. people are going, oh my god, trump is gonna be on twitter tomorrow. no, this is not a done deal. >> no, that's right. it has to go through, certainly, the regulatory hurdles. there's no indication that anyone in the federal level is gonna give it away, because he's not buying a competitor. there's almost 90 just issues here. so that's probably gonna go forward. the truth of the matter is, he does have the money. he has at least put up a huge amount of, they sickly, his ownership of tesla as collateral. if that's lowered somehow tank as a company, and the stock would go down, you will certainly have to repay that that really quick. but right, now that was doing great. and, so he does seem to have that firepower to make this happen. but he's gonna run into all kinds of crazy problems. the election is one thing, to think about this. stephanie, the european union just passed one of the most sweeping regulatory changes in the history of the internet, the digital services act, which is going to make platforms like twitter financially and legally responsible for hate speech if it goes up on there. this, at a time when disguised buying the stuff, after talking and at that conference about wanting to basically open this thing up, and get much this free speech platform. he was asked if there was something in the gray area, was their attitude about that? well, there's a tweet in this area, yeah i have to leave it up. you have this guy in charge in a time where all of these people are thinking about how these bathrooms need to be moderated and studied, and still is gonna make a private. there's no indication that he's gonna go along with any of that. so, as cameras, it's a weird piece of news. this guy is such a strange person to be taking over something like this. it's a very surreal day for all of us who watch the stuff. >> and what is gray area that the color blind? kara, last question to you. is it a foregone conclusion that trump is gonna be back on twitter? >> i think if you wanted to be, i think elon was against the ban at the time, so i would assume he continues to be that way. trump is messing around with a rumble, and some sad little merger over there. they are trying to revive trump's social app. and he said he wasn't, i think you can resist, honestly. if he runs, he's gonna be on twitter. he just can't resist. he just can't quit it, let's just say that way. >> he just can't quit it. cara swisher, jake ward, thank you so much. when we come back, speaking of the former president, he's on the campaign trail and ohio while his former vice president visits the state of iowa. last a former republican congressman of there is a still place and the party for those who break the trump. and when the 11th hour continues. do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even a term policy - for an immediate cash payment. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized we needed a way to supplement our income. if you have $100,000 or more of life insurance, you may qualify to sell your policy. don't cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what it's worth. visit coventrydirect.com to find out if your policy qualifies. or call the number on your screen. coventry direct, redefining insurance. the sleep number 360® smart bed is on sale now. why choose proven quality sleep from sleep number? because the sleep number 360® smart bed is really smart. it senses your movement and automatically adjusts to help keep you both comfortable all night. it's also temperature balancing, so you 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meanwhile, trump's own vice president is still refusing to apologize for not going along with trump's plan to illegally subvert the 2020 election on january 6th. mike pence was in iowa, again this weekend, perhaps leaving his options open as a trump alternative in 2024. let us discuss. i want to welcome former florida publican congressman, carlos carmella. member of the republican conference for two years during the trump presidency and he is also an msnbc political analyst. good evening, i want to start with what former georgia senator david perdue, now running for governor opened last night's debate with. a proven lie. watch this >> first off folks, let me be very clear tonight, the election in 2020 was rigged and stolen. all of the madness that we see from the biden administration, 2 million illegals, rising gas prices, unbelievable inflation, the brink of war, all of that has started here in georgia when our government came and allowed radical democrats to steal our election. >> david perdue is not a dumb man, he knows that what he did was tell a lot, but is this the formula? repeat trump's 2020 election law, get his endorsement and win the election. is that how this works? and if it, is how is pence's strategy going to work out? >> steph, good evening. what you saw there is a man who is desperate. despite having donald trump's support, he is down in the polls and that is why he is willing to lock, lately on television like that. just to try to win over those trump supporters who still are not supporting him. and that is the playbook, that is going to be on display this whole primary season in the republican party. which republicans continue subscribing to this lie? trying to survive, just hoping to get another opportunity to serve an elected office and which ones embrace the truth. to the defense of mike pence, even though a lot of people disagree with the way that he conducted himself while he was vice president, right at the end, he refused to go along with trump's lies and here, two years later, he continues speaking the truth. and we will see where that goes, pence is respected among the republican party and he is a true conservative and he is also committed to the truth and now you are right stephanie that may or may not work but that is what is going to be answered this primary season, is the republican party still a fully owned subsidiary of the trump organization, or will it go back to being an entity of its own, with people who, whether we agree or disagree with, them say the truth. >> they might want to look out, being a fully owned subsidiary of the trump organization, new slashed, it's gone bankrupt six times. in utah, former republican evan mcmullin, he is now running as an independent against mike lee, and he just accepted the endorsement of the saints democrats, what do you think of that move? >> evan mcmullin has been committed to fighting donald trump since 2016 and he has planted his flag in utah, he did gain some traction in the past and now he is trying to build a coalition, not necessarily of people who agree on policy, but on people who agree that politicians should be honest, or should at least be committed to say the truth. so, we will see if this strategy works out for mcmullin, but you have to give credit to some of these conservatives and republicans who are trying every possible strategy to defeat trumpism, because they know that it is not only bad for the republican party long term, it is also dangerous for the country. and so kudos to mcmullin for going out there and trying to build a coalition of utah's sue care about the truth and who understand how mike lee seems to have been intimately of involved in the process to try to overturn the january 6th, 2020 election. ultimately, he did do the right thing and certify the results, but boy, did our country pay a heavy price for the propagation of that lie. >> okay, i am out of time, but i must, must. asked trump said that he would take anyone over mitch mcconnell four republican senate leader. if republicans take the senate, do you think there is anybody who can beat mcconnell? let's remember, you might not like mitch mcconnell, might not be a great guys to hang out with, but he is hugely powerful. maniacal, strategic. last i checked, he won his last election and trump lost. >> step, mitch mcconnell staying in power is extraordinary. right now, it seems like he is the only republican who has confronted trump on numerous occasions. who has called out donald trump's lies. i know that his record has not been perfect according to many, but certainly there is a few times where he has been explicit in denouncing trump. we know that he has not spoken to him since before the 2020 election, and he still has extraordinary support inside of the senate republican conference. my money is on mitch mcconnell always. >> he is one strategic beast. but you mcconnell, carlos avelo, always good to, see you thanks for joining us tonight. >> when we come back, the best of humanity, my takeaway from spending a week in poland, when the 11th hour continues. >> the last thing before we go tonight, the best of humanity. i was not here at the anchor desk last week, because my son and i spent his swing brink volunteering at the poll and ukraine border. one of the biggest and clearest takeaways from working with refugees, is that this is a war against humanity itself. mothers and children, senior citizens forced from their homes and their country. to places where they do not speak the language, they don't have any contacts, and they don't have a plan. you're going to see a lot more con -- on the play of these refugees and the devastation of this war. however, i also want to share that amid this tragedy, i had the privilege of witnessing the absolute best of humanity. we spent the week working with ph. polish humanitarian action group. working around the clock at border crossings to help ukrainians through their resettlement process. we also volunteered with world central kitchen, who's preparing an incredible 300,000 meals a day to those impacted by the war. every age, race, demographics, all coming together with one singularly focused mission, to help those who need it most. i want to share this guy. then do sang, a lawyer from kentucky. he is living in a hostile. shows up at the border every single day, sometimes in a chicken suit, other days you see it right there in a hot pink bunny suit. to give kids a comforting treat. famed chef mark murphy, seen here at the left, let our kitchen and has been there for seven weeks straight, without one single day off. a french volunteer named fabian, saying here in maroon on the left, he left the group, headed home to france just for the weekend, one reason, to vote for macron. now he is headed back to poland. alex dennis blanco, he was the leader of my group. a russian born logistics expert. the leading w c k volunteer and he has no plans to go home anytime soon. yesterday, he led an orthodox easter egg project at the refugee center, which currently holds hundreds and hundreds of displaced children. and during my time there with alex, we shipped out an astounding 14,000 sandwiches. as my son pointed out, that when there is so much chaos, the only thing that you want to do is do your small part. there is no time to think about problems that you have at home. issues in your personal life, none of that matters. all that you can do is focus on how do you get four slices of cheese on up on as fast as possible. and many of these photos were taking by robin claire, if we are combat photographer, who leaves poland and is now heading to libya. before returning home to the states. each one of these people, extraordinary humans, many of them staying in hospitals and hotels an hour away from the volunteer site, because housing is in such short supply because of refugee needs. they show up seven days a week, 12 hour shifts, many of them canceling their plans to return home. at the border, when we worked with ph, i'm a polish man who left his job in poland to volunteer at the pedestrian border crossing. that is where the refugees are in need of the most assistance, because they are arriving by foot, with only what they carry. and chances are, they do not have the, money they don't have a place to go, they just need help. i also gained a new appreciation for the importance of doing things, i coats, hats, books. reminded you those things, but sometimes we forget about it when we clean our basements, our closets. but i can tell, you that when a bus comes across the border with a five year old that has been traveling for days, the only thing on earth that you want to do is dig through that donation bin and find the perfect stuffed animal, or maybe a fire truck. same goes for a winter coat in the right size for an older gentleman who made the trip that. one for my son, who like me, could not speak ukrainian, could not speak russian, and did not have the information or the skills to help people with what they needed most. just the act of blowing bubbles for hours was somehow and injection of joy that we all seemed to need. and to the polish people, so many opening their homes, offering rides, leaving their own jobs to volunteer on their days off. surely embracing the principle of love thy neighbor. it was astounding. my point is this, in the face of so much darkness, i want you to know that on the ground, there is also so much light. and while i come home saddened, i am also incredibly inspired. there are so many good people doing great things and tonight i want to honor them. we are going to talk a lot more about this war and the extremely difficult days ahead. but tonight, i leave you with this message. that there is light and it is being led by service organizations, governments and volunteers like you and me. putin's inhumane moore is also bringing out the best in humanity. and on that note, i wish you all a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late with me, good to be back. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. tonight on all in, -- scientists have a name for this kind of coup. -- >> new text messages and new filing from the january six committee, tonight, congressman jamie raskin on new revelations about the secret service, why mike pence refuses to leave the capitol with them and we are learning from thousands of text messages from trump's chief of staff, that showed refresh some fading memories. >> did you advocate for

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