marine lippman, putin ally, was defeated today. i will speak to historian and author timothy snyder. ♪ ♪ ♪ , >> good evening, i am mehdi hasan. back in 2019 a full year and a half before the 2020 election i asked a question, one that was bothering me for quite some time, one of donald trump loses in november 2020 and refuses to leave the white house? now i know that doesn't seem like a crazy thing to ask now, but back then i received a lot of flak, liberals disagreed with may. certain that american institutions would protect us from a coup, some suggested if trump loses, wouldn't a secret service just escort him out. but what people feel to realize that donald trump spent four years in office disrupting norms, and slowly but surely corrupting america's institutions. and tonight i need to ask, is the secret service one of those institutions? just within the last few days democratic representative jamie raskin of maryland, who's a member of the house 16 committee said that the committees up coming public areas will tell a story that will blow the roof off the house. adam event in washington, d. c., raskin spoke when he called a chilling moment for january the cyst involving former vice president mike pence, after rioters stormed the halls of congress some chanting hang mike pence, the vice president secret service agents rushed to a secure location inside the capitol, those agents that raskin says he suspects were reporting to trump secret service agents. then tried to whisk pence away from the capital, that's when the congressman said that pence uttered what he called the six most chilling words he's heard throughout this entire investigation. quote, i'm not getting in that car, raskin goes on to claim the pence knew exactly what this inside coup they had planned for was going to do. let's take that in for a second. congressman raskin suggests that there was coordinated effort between pence's secret and trump secret service to remove the vice president from the capitol so that he would not be able to fulfill his duty of certifying the election that day. the pence conversation had been previously reported by the washington post philip brock and carol leoning-- i alone can fix it, according to record and letting pence's lead special agent repeatedly urged him to leave the capitol in an armored car. that's when pence told the agent quote, i trust you, tim, but you're not driving the car, if i get in that vehicle you guys are taking off. does that sound to you at the vice president of united states knew that his boss the president was trying to get him out of the capitol, to prevent the certification of the vote? it kind of does to me. but i'll be honest, there's a lot of unanswered questions, so let's take a step back should this kind of loyalty from the secret service to trump really surprise us? you'll have to remember when president biden took office he had to receive a new detail due to concerns that some of the previous team members more politically aligned with the former president. now, it's no secret that law enforcement agencies lean right and it looks at the secret service is no exception. the end she's going to do trump seems to know no bounds, in the run up to the 2020 election, you might remember those mash of campaign ranks held by the former president, stadiums back to the brand in the middle of the pandemic causing spikes of the virus in communities across the country. well, the president secret service detail wasn't spared it's estimated the one point -- 10 percent of the agency's personnel were ordered to isolate or quarantine after testing positive for covid. in addition to catching a deadly disease for the commander-in-chief it seems that the agents were also more willing, more than willing to get their hands dirty for him. we remember trump's lafayette square photo op that's one law enforcement officers forced -- purposeful protest in front of the white house. so, that the president united senior administration officials could visit a church and have that photo op moment. while the secret service played a role there too, here you can see the agencies civil disturbance unit clouded in all black, demonstrators claim those agents charge of the crowd and sprayed them with tear grass and pepper spray. a charge of the secret service at first denied, then walked back a few days later many. former secret surgeons were horrified at that days of and one told the washington post quote, we protect the president, we don't report to the president, it feels at that line is now been blurred. how blurred you may ask? well meet the man who helped coordinate that visit to the church anthony ornato. if that means found similar that's because this week a new filing from the january sixth committee revealed that according to former a trump era anthony ornato or the chief of staff, mark meadows, about possible violence ahead of the capitol riot. before that in the early days of the administration, ornato served as a detailed need for the secret service, and 2020 the take gunning president allowing him to leave his role to become trump's deputy chief of staff. that's one addition to the photo op of trans law fiat square, he was responsible for courting some of those superspreader of events. i mean campaign rallies, did i mention a moment ago. so where is ornato now, he's back at the secret service serving as the assistant director the agency's office of training. isn't that crazy? trump appointed a senior secret service agent from his detail to serve on his political team in the white house. we asked the secret service for comment, but they didn't get back to us. i don't know about you, but there are far too many unanswered questions still, about the role of various officials, and various institutions, when it comes to the attack on our capitol. it has become trump's role in coup. these 1/6 community public hearings, they cannot come fast enough. and yet, they're still weeks away. remember, an unpunished coup is just a training exercise. joining me now is carol leonnig, she's a national reporter for the washington post, and msnbc contributor. as i mentioned, she's the author of i alone can fix it, and also the author of the will fail: the resentful of the secret service. carol, thanks so much for coming on the show. i wanna start by getting your reaction to those comments from congressman, raskin, based on your reporting and what's coming out of the community. 's westminster jesting secret service agents could have been coordinating with trump on 16 to prevent pence from doing his job? >> congressman raskin describes information that we don't have all the access to. but what i do know is that pence did not want to get into that car, because he feared being driven away, he was talking to his own deputy, who was talking to the white house, where white house aides were saying their idea was, to move pence from the capital, possibly to the joint force airbase in andrews air force base, formerly known as. or, there was one person who was fearful inside the white house, that the secret service was trying to arrange to take pence to alaska. now, i want to be careful here, mehdi, and say, we don't know what the white house and the secret service absolutely were doing. we know that they talked about moving him away from the capital, but why? why did they want to move him away from the capital? well, a, people were threatening to hang him, so it was a pretty dangerous place. but also, there was great concern from within what i would call pence's close intimate circle, that the goal of moving him was to prevent the certification of joe biden as president. remember, pence had famously led donald trump down, by following the law, following the constitution, and telling the president, i'm going to certify this election, because that is what the constitution requires me to do. >> wow! so let me ask you this, carol. do you have any reporting on if the secret service agents have been called to testify in front of the 16 committee? could they be? >> they actually could be. they totally could be, but it is a huge lift, legally, because secret service agents have not a privilege in the way that an attorney and a client do, but they have a very special role. and typically, congress, even federal prosecutors really are a low to call them in for testimony. but a good thing for the community is, we know they already have a lot of the information about what the secret service was doing, because they've spoken to pence aides. they've spoken to keith kellogg, who was there when there was discussion about the possibility and concern that donald trump was trying to use the secret service for his purpose. so they have a lot of information without asking one agent a question. to me, the most important thing that you raise in your monologue, and in the setup for this show. the most important thing is, what did pence believe? and clearly, he was suspicious of what trump was up to, and what the secret service was up to. and he had plenty of reason to be suspicious. numerous equipped service agents and senior leadership positions had essentially either been co-opted or bullied by donald trump, into doing things that the secret service has never done before. they agreed to do things that were incredible -- sorry, go ahead. >> on that note, i just want to jump in and say, you mentioned the unprecedented moves among officials. i wanted to ask you about anthony or not oh. you have reported on him. how unprecedented was his job from the secret service to the administration and then back to the service again? how is not blowing the lines, is that just another example of the politicization of members of our law enforcement agencies? >> it's absolutely an example of the politicization. this is an agency that takes the oath. we, the people, elect him, we protect him. they're supposed to be nonpartisan and separate. but in this instance, something happened, that has never, ever happened in the history of the secret service before. a senior leader, the head of the presidents details, somebody he's gotten close to, was made the deputy white house chief of staff. the person in charge of that clearing, that so many view as authoritarian, and that federal judges had found to be really troubling and chilling. there was a use of force that was unnecessary against a group of overwhelmingly peaceful protesters. anthony ornato was at the center of that. another thing antony ornato was at the center of was several campaign events that basically spread covid far and wide in red states. i will tell you that no single event that has happened in the secret service has unified former and current secret service agents so, so directly. they all agree that this decision was a terrible one, and that trump should never have been able to get his way with secret service director, should've told him no, but he didn't. >> fascinating, so many questions that need to be answered. i don't even know the story of antony ornato until very recently, so i very much appreciate your reporting on. this carol leonnig, thank you so much for your time tonight. >> up next, congresswoman ayanna pressley on combatting long covid. but first, richard louis is here with the headlines. hey, richard. >> first, i wanna talk with some breaking news. secretary of state antony blinken and defense secretary lloyd austin meeting with president zelenskyy in kyiv today. according to ukrainian presidential advisor, this visit marks the first time top u.s. officials have traveled to ukraine since the russian invasion began. and it came incumbent emmanuel macron has defeated his far-right opponent marine le pen in the french presidential election. projections now show that macron took just over 58% of the vote. look and conceded to macron shortly after the polls closed, with his win, macron becomes the first french president in two decades to win a second term. the final result will be announced by the country's interior ministry on monday. we've got more of the mehdi hasan show, right after this break. this break. love and liberty mutual customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. if anyone objects to this marriage... 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need. liberty biberty— cut. liberty... are we married to mutual? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ democrats are almost entirely focused on the getting life back to normal before the midterm elections in november. it's all about declaring victory over covid. they're keen to take us back to a time when the coronavirus was the last thing on our mind. let's take a look at what happened this past week. we saw a trump appointed judge strike down the federal mask mandate for planes, trains and buses. and it took the biden justice department two days to come out and appeal the justice decision. while joe biden himself basically said, it's an individual choice. meanwhile, many democrats have joined republicans in suggesting, take off our masks, and all covid requirements. they seem to consistently oversee one real issue, long covid. a new report shows that 40% of people experience long covid symptoms, that is things like fatigue, memory issues, shortness of breath, sleep problems, joint pain among many other issues. another study done by the uk's national institute for health research found that up to one in seven kids, kids who have the virus, may get long covid. so it's a very well-documented, but under reported issue, one that affects millions of americans. the thing is, to accept that long covid is a problem, you have to first except you can't just wish covid away, or pretend that the only metric for measuring the threat from covid is hospitalizations and deaths. no. peoples lives, it's lives are being ruined right now on the long term effect of getting covid, even mild cases of covid. so, what are we gonna do about it? with me now, massachusetts congresswoman ayanna pressley. earlier this month, she introduced a bill that would expand access to long covid clinics. congresswoman, thanks for coming back on this show. we've seen that the long term effects from covid infection are very real, brain fog, fatigue, people losing their taste, smell, etc. it's possible long covid could be a brand new disability that will affect millions of americans for years to come. what does the new bill do to help tackle this off, this long covid issue? >> thank you, mehdi. there are in fact, earlier in the pandemic, we saw the disability justice, advocates, members of the disability community predict that this has the potential to be a mass disabling event, covid-19. and in fact, it seems that that might be coming to bear. here are some estimates they did, 8 million people who are suffering with covid long hauler symptoms. and that is affecting their quality of life, your physical health, their psychological health, and also our workforce. the bill i will introduce to treat long covid act, was represented in rochester. and it is the first of its kind believe it would expand long covid clinics through health care providers, provide them grants, prioritizing those in need, health care providers have served all those impacted communities or marginalized communities. health care providers like our community health centers. and it would not deny treatment based on insurance coverage or method of diagnosis, or previous hospitalizations. what i want this community to know, since many of them have been told that the symptoms are imaginary, those symptoms are as real as they are. and they are deserving of, and warrant a federal response. that's why, this is essential that we pass this such act to legislation. >> and i wonder whether america is gonna get hit harder by this than other countries, because we simply don't have a health care system that can deal with this stuff. we don't have universal health care. we don't have the kind of treatments, immediate means that people need. and i just wonder, in other countries, at least, there's gonna be millions of new patients with new illnesses and new symptoms for years to come, i suspect countries with properly funded universal health care systems will deal with it better than ours? >> well, this is exactly why i appreciate the white house's leadership promised this initiative, that will expand long covid throughout the a system, and also have those research ongoing, data collection, because we can't manage that which we don't know. it's also wise we continue to fight for another covid response package, albeit fighting for our covid long haulers to be included in that. but it's also why we need to stand along. we need to do everything possible to get this legislation, to treat long covid bill passed. in order to ensure that everyone who is suffering, they'll be able to access a treatment option, in their community. >> that was one, this week, we saw people legally allowed to take their masks off on trains, planes and buses. and a belated response to that justice is the decision from the biden department. they rollback mask mandates and their states, free testing is disappearing. how do you feel democrats should be messaging around covid right now? because a lot of people are still dying every day, longer which continues to grow as an issue. and i feel like the democrats are now joining the republicans in saying, let us just move on from this pandemic. >> well, we can't overall -- there's still very much in a pandemic. and as much as we want to move on, and be finished with this pandemic, it is clear it is not finished with us. and while we continue to sort of begin to wrap our minds and arms around what is the right path of this be to variant, it's important that we remain vigilant, but we continue to mask, get vaccinated, those things. we know that masking and mitigation has been successful in saving off this virus. we also know that children under the age of five don't have the vaccine yet. and then, there are many more of our neighbors, family members, who are immunocompromised. i can, i commend the biden administration for appealing their will on mask mandates on public transportation. it really encourages folks to continue masking, while we understand the impact of this new variant. our greatest wealth, as a nation, is the health of our people. and in the interest of the public health, we just have to continue proceeding in this way. and follow the science and the data. >> i wonder if the white house is still pushing this whole not public, it's all up to the individual, even -- which i find bizarre. but let's move on. let's talk about. let's talk student loans. this week, we saw the biden administration cancel seven billion dollars in federal student loan debt for some 350,000 borrowers with disabilities. now, that's a very narrow group of people that are having their loans figured. but, it does show, doesn't it, that it can be done? and should democrats be promoting this, pushing for more student loan forgiveness, as we get closer to the midterms. it's very popular, feels like a no-brainer to me. >> well, in fact, not only is it transformative and stale policy, it is also good politics, to your point. and this is a nearly two trillion dollar crisis, affecting people from every walk of life. and the administration has bossed, payments, three times this pandemic, they have forgiven the death for some borrowers. and for that same authority, it was given for a congress by the education act, by executive action, struck of a pen, requiring no action from congress. president biden can alleviate this burden and this hardship. nearly 48 million americans are experiencing, i've been in community all weekend, a number of parents that are approaching me, saying i cannot retire, i'm 70 years old, and because they cosigned other children's loans. so this is an intergenerational crisis. it's an economic justice issue. it's a racial justice issue. it is a disproportionate proportion of debt, because of policies that are -- to build generational wealth. we've seen how impactful student loan payments have been. people have -- purchased essential goods. some people have become for generation home buyers. so we can help transformational impact will it be by executive action to cancel, brought a student at, at $50,000. >> joe biden promised ten k, it hasn't done that yet. let's hope he's listening to you and others, like senator elizabeth warren who made the case on the show and on monday. and your colleague in the house. look at talking about it on the show. i just wanna talk about something else on the news. on friday, your colleague in the house, the republican colleague in the house, congresswoman marjorie taylor greene, faced cross-examination in federal court about the january 6th insurrection. i want to play just one bit that you had to say about how speaker nancy pelosi. have a listen. >> in fact, you think that speaker pelosi is a traitor to the country? >> from speculation -- >> you said that, haven't you, miss greene, but she situated to this country? >> no, i haven't said that. >> okay. but up the exhibit, please. >> no, wait, hold on, now. i believe by upholding, not upholding securing the border, that that violates her oath of office. >> greene got called out again and again on friday. you've seen that happen in realtime on the floor. i want to ask you, why does it like to be in the house of representatives with someone like marjorie taylor greene right now, after hearing those? do you feel safe even around someone like that was accused of being complicit and does something to have very good defense for it. and should your party have done more to hold people like her accountable over the last 16 months? >> well, i think january 6th certainly proves what happens with inertia and inaction. you can have insurrection. so, accountability is critical. the white supremacy and the sorts of actions are a threat to our democracy. and into the life of quite literally everyone. you don't, i don't give her what she is seeking, which is attention. i think she's been given enough oxygen. i need to remain squarely focused on the constituents of the massachusetts seven. i want to continue to do my job on their behalf, each and every day, to me that our president challenge and hardship for americans and for the commonwealth and certainly for massachusetts seven. and so, that's why i remain squarely focused. >> all right there, congresswoman ayanna pressley, thank you for your time tonight. appreciate it. >> all right, thank. >> an elephant -- people are mean to. >> he's a guy that said some bad bleep around me. you know what, every one of the others did also. i don't think i would have ever endorsed anybody in the country. they all said that, but they all came back. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. 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[ding] e*trade now from morgan stanley. we have breaking news out of ukraine, a top advisor to the country's president has confirmed that secretary of state antony blinken in defense secretary lloyd austin where in kyiv today where they met with volodymyr zelenskyy. a pretty powerful gesture there from the united states government, this comes as ukraine marks orthodox easter ahead of the high holiday. a french priest has been speaking to ukrainians, but rather than celebrating mass he's interviewing victims and witnesses of russian atrocities. those accounts will be used for future war crimes prosecution. he believes that the atrocities kit -- and mariupol where the worst is in bucha, historian and author timothy snyder, longest regret about russian brutality in a new york times op-ed this week he shares a new word that ukrainians have invented to describe russian facism, which directly translates to ruscism, he joins me now tim is oppressor history at yale university in blood lands, europe between hitler and stalin, has been updated and reissued in paperback. tim, thanks so much for coming back on the show. before putin's invasion many in the west would've been hard-pressed to list the differences between russia and ukraine. but you argue that those differences are significant and even putin seems to miss them. you say in your op-ed quote, russians don't understand ukrainians because they have not learned it, ukrainians do understand russian, because they have learned it. this fact has battlefield implications. how so? >> well, if you're invading a country where everyone speaks your language, it's pretty important not to carry out conversations in the clear which the russians have been doing this entire war, the ukrainians have a tremendous advantage, so long as they can catch a russian conversation they can have a standpoint. if they can arrest a russian officer, they can interrogate him in his own language, they can read everything the russians are publishing whether it's open or not open if they don't have access to a. they can think the way the russians can think, or they're used to doing that. whereas at the same time they have their own language to fall back. on russians don't actually speak ukrainian, they don't understand ukrainian, ukrainians are supposed to peek ukrainian in order to look for russian infiltrators and spies. and since we're not bilingual, we're not used to thinking of that kind of a world. we overlook this advantage of ukrainians have. >> so, you've put out your book in paperback, i want to talk about the new afterward of the new addition of your book blood land a right quote, when it was first published democracy was beginning a retreat around the world, and decade on democracy along with history is vanishing from our public life. are you surprised at how quickly that vanishing is happening? and are you optimistic that anti-democratic plan can be reversed? >> well, yeah, it's a big plane. but it's a big trend, in the years after 1989 a lot of americans were quite optimistic that history was over, there weren't any alternatives, the details the past didn't matter so much because the trends we're all going in the right direction. thanks to 9/11, the financial crisis in disasters warren iraq, and many other things most recently this russian invasion of ukraine, we know that there is no kind of automatic sense of progress anymore. and in a sense that lesson was an important one to be learned, because democracy doesn't survive automatically. and only surviving people recognize it as a value, and they're willing to take the risks for it. so, from this territory war in ukraine if there's anything to be gained, it's the example of ukrainians who remind us that democracy is something to care about. it's something to take risks for. and so, when i -- call it a point of inflection and ukrainians by resisting have given the rest of us a moment to think and to consider what we care about. >> so, i want to get your reaction to the results of the french presidential election we're talking about the future of democracy and i think -- annual macron has defeated pretty, projected to feed his far-right rival marine le pen, by about 16 points, which is decisive but significantly smaller margin than in 2017 when he beat her by more than 30 points. and le pen looks to secure most votes ever for a french far-right candidate. what are your thoughts on those results and what might that closer margin before the future of the far-right, in europe and america? >> yeah, all the questions you asked have been linked because they mean that article you are nice enough to mention, i write about russia zone which is that ukrainian idea that there's a particular variety of russian fast-ism and they're right, the russians the world center of far-right politics at the moment. not just in it's a vision of ukraine, where it's genocidal crimes make it extremely -- fascist character obvious. but in its decades-long policy to support far-right politicians around the world. so, when we look at a trump or a le pen, we're looking not just at a national politics we're looking at someone who has very close connections to the kremlin, -- le pen's party was financed by the kremlin, she's been defying -- so, in terms of the battle for democracy, this is very significant but as you said the fact that a candidate like this can gather 42% is also very much a warning sign. we're in the middle of something, we're in the middle of a struggle to see if democracy reveille, or not in -- the pendulum decisions that we make very soon. >> i mean, i hear a lot of commentators saying what a great result it is but one and three french voters didn't show up, and of those that dead foreign ten voted for a neo-fascist? >> yeah, i mean it's relief right. it's. relief macron did better than biden in the united states, we are relieved when the guy wants to destroy the system or the woman that wants to destroy the system isn't elected because it buys us time. . right? it buys us time, what do we do with that. time because if we just wait the government still mobilizes and generates policies and people that are interested in democracy, then that will do better the next time around. >> yes indeed an important loftily there sadly are out of time to be the starter either of the newly updated book blood lands, europe between hitler and stalin thank you so much. >> my pleasure. >> still ahead inside the rights attempt to re-demonize gay america and i'll share my thoughts. next. ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. as a struggling actor, i need all the breaks that i can get. at liberty butchemel— cut. liberty biberty— cut. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for whatchya... line? 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>> pedophilia is around the corner. we must not give these freaks and predators so much as one inch. >> the suggest your political opponent's pro child sex offender, pro child born, as ted cruz, lindsey graham, and of course marjorie taylor greene, during the confirmation hearings recently for supreme court justice elected, ketanji brown jackson. it is bad enough. to smear ordinary americans, ordinary gay americans, working in our schools a secret groomers, or as pedophiles is sick! it is inexcusable, it is outrageous. look, no one is saying that you have no right or religious beliefs, or you should drop them or ignore your religion. loudly come out for game marriage, if you don't want to. that's not what this is about. those are arguments for another day. this is about all of us, you 19 right now to stop this very dangerous redemonizing of gay americans. this effort to take us back to the past, this dark and paranoid path that leads only to hate, and perhaps worse, to violence. it is now crystal clear what trump, desantis, fox and the rest mean when they say, make america great again. they want to turn the clock back to an era in which america was great. a homophobic bigotry, and an anti-gay persecution. the rest of us, who believe in minority rights, and equality under the law, who oppose hate crimes and violence, we simply cannot allow that to happen. >> coming up at the top of the hour, ayman mohyeldin willl be joined by michigan attorney general dana nessel. they'll discuss the extremism running through the michigan republican party, and the importance of the midterm elections for protecting your vote in 2024. we'll be back in a moment. ♪ ♪ ♪ (driver 1) it's all you. 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