started. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> tonight, we begin with a wild 48 hours of capital insurrection developments. lots of news to cover. and we start with late last night. we learned that a former white house official actually warned trump's chief of staff, mark meadows, who has become the center of all of this, days before the insurrection, that the events of january the 6th could actually turned violent. nbc news has reached out to meadows attorney for comment, and that new evidence comes from a 248 page court filing from the january six committee. that filing also details just how deeply involved the republican members of congress were in devising a strategy, with trump and his aides, to overturn the 2020 election. we're gonna have more on that in just a moment. of course, we'd be remissed if we didn't talk about the other massive january six related development this week, kevin mccarthy supposed true feelings about trump and the attack, actually caught on tape, in his own words. the authors of a forthcoming book, both new york times reporters, obtained audio of republican leadership conversations just days after the insurrection, and they are quite shocking and damning. take a listen. >> i've had it with this guy. what he did is unacceptable. nobody can defend that, and nobody should defend it. >> kevin mccarthy actually vowed to all the drive donald trump out of politics. he told congresswoman liz cheney that trump should resign from office. >> is there any chance? are you hearing that he might resign? is there any reason to think that might happen? >> i've had a few discussions. my gut tells me no. i'm seriously thinking of having that conversation with him tonight. i haven't talked him in a couple of days. from what i heard of him, i mean, you guys all know him to. do you think he'd ever back away? but wet i think i'm going to do, is i'm going to call him. now, this is one personal fear i have, i do not want to get into any conversation about pence pardoning again, the only discussion i would have with him is that i think that this will pass. and it would be my recommendation you should resign. that would be my take, but i don't think he would take it. but i don't know. >> now, hours before this audio was released, kevin mccarthy's office actually denied reports that he ever spoke like this about trump. and then, i guess you're probably asking, well what did he do after it was released. silence. neither mccarthy nor his office has said a word publicly. and trump has played down the comments in an interview with the wall street journal. so kevin mccarthy was basically saying one thing in private and then saying something completely different in public. and i know that might shock so, it might not come as a big surprise that -- honestly, it's a standard for american politicians. some would say. but we're talking about a deadly insurrection here that the former president and his allies helped stoke. when push came to shove, and kevin mccarthy could've done the right thing, and help kick trump's political career to the curb once and for all as he seemed to want to do in private, as we just heard there, he actually caved. he caved and he almost singlehandedly rehabilitated donald trump's political career shortly thereafter because kevin mccarthy was photographed with trump just days after that audio was played. and here's the proof, this photo is largely credited with helping republicans get back on trump side after the insurrection. so it's actually not surprising that kevin mccarthy said one thing and did another. but what is surprising is that a man who wants to be one of the most powerful politicians in this country, a man who wants to be speaker of the house, seems so weak, so scared, that he will almost do anything to be in power, no matter the cost, the consequences, or anything in between. with me now is joyce vance, a former attorney, she is a professor at the michigan school of law. she's also the host of sister-in-law podcast and then kushner, a former federal prosecutor, and both we should, on our msnbc legal analyst. we rely on them heavily. joyce, your reaction to the recordings. >> there was a time in american history when having this sort of a conversation captured on tape would be enough to cause politicians to resign. but we are obviously well past that point in time. one thing that kevin mccarthy doesn't have really two things are the courage and the convictions of a liz cheney who is willing to pay a political price in order for standing up for the beliefs that she had. now we find out that kevin mccarthy had many of the same views that she had. but he was more interested in power than he was interested in doing the right thing for the future of the country. so this really interesting juncture, where there are two parallel investigations going along with two different purposes, the january six committee, hoping to uncover the truth and to bring accountability in the political lane, the justice department which is building a case from the ground up, starting literally with the people who overrun the capitol, and now moving up into those that were involved in organizing the insurrection. it will be interesting to see whether they meet and what role mccarthy might play. he certainly put him at the front of both of those investigations as someone who should be subpoenaed and who should testify under oath. >> glenn, kevin mccarthy has emerged as a central figure in so many of these conversations post insurrection. could this change mccarthy's calculation in terms of whether or not he testifies before the january six committee, if they do want to hear from him? >> you know what's, i think it's doubtful. i'll pick up where joyce left off. first of all, there is no bottom forgot like kevin mccarthy. and apparently he lives in a post shame bubble. but what i do think, again, following what joyce said, when you see a conversation between he and list teeny, these are some of the leaders of the republican party, and it's almost a casual reference when this genie says, well, you know kevin, you know how we were talking about that 25th amendment resolution, and kevin says, yeah. that's kind of a big deal. that would be disqualifying a president for unfitness. i think we need to know more about that. and when i say we, the j six committee, he needs to testify before. i suggest that he testify before a federal grand jury investigating the insurrection. we know they're working their way up the criminal ladder. we know they've indicted seditious conspiracy charges. they should hear from a guy like kevin mccarthy. and then when kevin mccarthy pulls out of thin air, you know what, i am going to trump talk to trump, but i have a fear that he's gonna bring up the pence pardon thing again. iexcuse me? is that because, maybe, donald trump has brought up the pence pardon thing before because if he did, that would be an indication of consciousness of guilt. donald trump would know he committed crimes and would need a presidential pardon and even he resigned and mark pence was installed. these are things that kevin mccarthy should be called to testify about. >> joyce, let me play some more audio for you and for our viewers from a republican leadership call from january 11th, 2021. take a listen. >> let me of a very clear to all of you, and i've been very clear to the president. he bears responsibilities for his words and actions, no ifs, ands or buts. i asked him personally today, is he held responsibility for what happened? does he feel bad for what happened? he told me that he does have some responsibility for what happened. and he'd need to acknowledge that. >> now, could that bears responsibility line that kevin mccarthy said, have any legal implications down the line? >> so, i wouldn't put too much stalk in that, at least in terms of being evidence that could be brought to play against trump for a couple of reasons. not the least of which that it's a statement made out of court. and although sometimes, and this goes deep into federal evidence law, but sometimes those short of statements that when they're made by someone who is a party to a lawsuit can still be admitted even though they are out of court. they don't carry the same credibility as a statement that's made in court or statement that's made officially recorded or on the record. this would at best be kevin mccarthy's recollection of what trump said, and of course there's a lot of waffle room in a statement like that. there are ways to parse what the word responsibility means. but what i like about these conversations and these tapes, to glenn's point, is that when you take all of them together, they do trend towards showing certain states of mind and that trump was thinking about this, he was weighing what had gone on in a serious way, he knew that there might be political consequences, and if, to glenn's, point there is more evidence of prior conversations about trump explore whether or not there could be a pardon for him, if he stepped down, then i think we begin to develop evidence that could show intent and knowledge on the part of trump. >> let's talk about this new court filing last night from the january six committee, deposition excerpts suggest that some of trump's top allies, and congress were frequently present in meetings where you had a handful of strategists -- strategies, excuse, me to prevent then president elect joe biden from taking office. they were being discussed. including this effort that is getting more attention to replace the leadership of the justice department with figures who would sow doubts about the legitimacy of the election. how troubling is that? >> it is troubling, it feels like this should be investigated as a big old conspiracy. it sure feels like there's evidence to investigate whether all of these folks were members of a conspiracy -- we try to corruptly, criminally overturn the results of a presidential election. so i think this is troubling. what's even more troubling is that we have these challenges that are being launched against members of congress to try to disqualify them for holding public office. these efforts are being undertaken by private citizens and nonprofit organizations like free speech for people. it really does feel like this is a job for the department of justice to see if members of congress were either part of the insurrection or were given aid and comfort to the insurrection or the insurrectionists, because, if so, if the doj got involved, i think it would be a far higher likelihood that some of these members of congress could be recruited from holding office in the future. >> joyce, what stood out to you in this filing? >> this is a fascinating filing. as you say, 248 pages, a lot of exhibits, and it's a summary judgment motion in a civil case that mark meadows filed against the january six committee after he stopped cooperating with them in an effort to try to slip out from underneath the requests that he comfort interviewed provide more documents. so all that he had to do to prevail in a motion like this is to put on enough evidence to show that there are no material issues of fact that's in dispute between the parties and that the january six committee are entitled to a judgment of law. so the january six committee doesn't have to have put on all of its evidence -- just enough to prevail on this motion. and it looks from the exhibits that were attached to this motion that they were putting some tidbits out there, enough to get people interested, that i suspect that there is much more behind it. as we lead into these hearings that are now promise for early june, we're gonna hear more from the january six committee. it looks like it will be evidence at least in layman's terms of a conspiracy. of course, the committee can't indict anyone, they can make decisions about who should be prosecuted. but's statements that were made from the democrat from maryland, it seems like they really believe that they have evidence of a conspiracy. >> all right, thank you very much. joyce vance, stick around, we will check in with you for a deeper conversation other things as well. >> still had, how to stop the insidious republican attacks on our elections. ections. ♪simply irresistible♪ ♪ ♪ ♪simply irresistible♪ applebee's irresist-a-bowls are back. now starting at $8.99. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. way day, wayfair's biggest sale of now starting at $8.99. the year is bigger than ever! for two days only, april 27th and 28th, get the lowest prices on thousands of items for your home. shop outdoor furniture up to 65% off... rugs up to 80% off... and lighting up to 65% off... plus, get bonus savings with a wayfair credit card and free shipping on everything! shop way day, our biggest sale of the year. happening april 27th and 28th at wayfair.com. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ i could've waited to tell my doctor my heart was racing just making spaghetti... but i didn't wait. i could've delayed telling my doctor i was short of breath just reading a book... but i didn't wait. they told their doctors. and found out they had... atrial fibrillation. a condition which makes it about five times more likely to have a stroke. if you have one or more of these symptoms irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue or lightheadedness, contact your doctor. this is no time to wait. this is a game changer who dares to be fearless even when her bladder leaks. our softest, smoothest fabric keeping her comfortable, protected and undeniably sleek. depend. the only thing stronger than us, is you. ♪ ♪ depend. nice suits, you guys blend right in. the world needs you back. i'm retired greg, you know this. people are taking financial advice from memes. 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amber mcreynolds, spokesperson for the national council on election integrity, and governor on the u. s. postal service support, has an idea. mcreynolds says that the key lies in demystifying elections, and increasing transparency in the process. quote, our democracy is not a guarantee. it's up to all of us, republicans, democrats, and independents alike, to modernize and invest in it. and amber mcreynolds joins me now. amber, thanks so much for making time for us this evening. i couldn't agree with you more on the premise of your argument. free and fair elections are a hallmark of a democracy, but you interestingly write about how little the public actually knows about that process here in the united states. we've almost taken it for granted, and it has worked for centuries. how did trump and his allies weaponize this lack of knowledge, and how is transparency, the key to rebuilding trust in our system? >> well, thanks for having me tonight, ayman. about this important topic. you know, their -- first election officials are the guardians of our democracy. they are true public servants that serve the public on the front lines of our voting process and our democracy. and the attacks and stress and extra amount of work that they've been under, because of the disinformation and lies around our election process, isn't fair to them. but it is certainly harmful, critically harmful to our democracy. so, what i wrote in the op-ed that i recently, that was recently published in the philly maguire, is really about how we can further educate the public, largely, most people do not understand what happens with their ballot, once they forecasted. they see results on news networks, and assume that it's sort of this magical process that happens really quickly. and the reality is, there are significant processes behind the scenes, that ensure the integrity of our elections. full workers and election judges, and election officials, served on the frontlines. there are neighbors. the act in a nonpartisan way, for the most part, and they have served in these roles to provide public service to the voters. so my opinion is that the more transparent we can make those operations, and lift the voices and the access for election officials, to share their stories with the public, the better off we will be, and the better off we are fighting against disinformation and misinformation that these bad actors are attempting to confuse the public with. >> yeah, i would ask you about these lies and conspiracy theories for a moment, because this week, you had members of congress, they sent a letter to election officials and several key battleground states. about their efforts to combat lies and conspiracy theories that could damage the integrity of the elections. what role can lawmakers, specifically, play? i mean, both on the state and federal level here? what role, do you see legislation playing. >> well, first, you know, for many years, i and others have articulated the need for additional funding. so the federal government has never provided consistent funding for this critical public infrastructure that is our election systems. periodically, they have infused funds right after florida 2000, that's one example. right after the security breaches in 2016. but there hasn't been a consistent, clear infrastructure support for the election administration field. and that needs to happen. so, that is critically important. the second piece that i believe also is really important, in terms of policy, is the threats against election officials, have largely, there is not been accountability for that. so reuters demonstrated more than 800 cases of threats, direct threats against election officials, in almost every state, that have gone unaccountable, of course. so, law enforcement has not prosecuted these things. we need to make sure that when election officials are entered feared with, or voters by that standard as well, there is accountability. so i do think there is opportunity for legislators to consider that. and then finally, i have also been an advocate for more federal standards. i'm not a federal take over elections, by any means. the states obviously run the process. but i do think, the more we can demystify and streamline, and just create standards, the less confusion there will be around even simple issues like voter registration deadlines. so i think there's opportunity there, and do something in a bipartisan way. >> i would ask you about that in just a second, but let me just go back to election workers that you were talking about for a moment. because they are fundamental to the voting process. you talk about the threats they face. a recent poll found that one and six of those officials have experienced death threats because of their job. 77% say they feel these threats have increased in recent years. talk to me about the specific support they need. you've got a really good point about accountability, meaning those who make threats should be held accountable, through their actions, through their laws. >> look, as i mentioned, in the first part of this segment, election officials are the guardians of democracy. i remember growing up, my two grandmothers where poll workers, with my sister and i, riding our bikes to visit them on election day, after school, and take them cookies and snacks. and so, this is a deeply rooted service that americans, of all political stripes, have participated in overtime. so i think, one of the best ways to the public and support election officials is to number one, reach out to them, and ask them how you can help, whether that be serving as a poll worker, or if you have space as a business, and you want your space to be a polling place, or you have another idea that you think could help, reach out your local officials, and see how you can help them. i would encourage that business community to think about how they can partner on voter education, and civic education issues and communities across the country. but really, just step up and engage. second piece, educate your children. so, i live in colorado. i've been getting my ballot at home for many years, you to the legislation we passed when i was a local election official. and i have an eight and a ten year old, by now, a nine and 11. they just had their birthdays. i sit down with them every election cycle, go through the ballot, ever since they can start tweeting, we fill it out together. they ask me questions like, mommy, what does the mayor do? where does the state rep to? and i educate them about the civics process, how we elect our officials, and all of that. i think one of the other ways that we can do this issue just simply by educating the next generation, and encouraging the next generation to get involved, and be poll workers, and go to the election administration world. because it is as fascinating and deeply diverse space, in terms of skill sets, and we need great people to provide great service to the american people. >> yeah, i was gonna say, i couldn't agree with you more in terms of sharing that education with the next generation. and on behalf of us here, happy belated birthday to your children. amber mcreynolds, thank you so much for joining us. i really appreciate your insight and your time. don't forget, the nbc news, plan your vote tool, is now live for them, with key information on the voting rules. where you live, including things like registration, mail-in voting rules, changes since 2020, and a whole lot more. please head over to nbc news. com slash plan your vote, to get the very latest on the voting rules in your state. >> coming up, senior kremlin insiders are actually calling the ukraine invasion a catastrophic mistake. find out why, next. your projects done right . with angi, you can connect with and see ratings and reviews. and when you book and pay throug you're covered by our happiness check out angi.com today. angi... and done. before nexium 24hr, anna could only imagine a comfortable night's sleep without frequent heartburn waking her up. now, that dream... . ...is her reality. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts, for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ the ihop rewards program is here, and it's delicious. join the international bank of pancakes and start earning pancoins toward free food. only from ihop. staying up half the night searching for savings on your prescriptions? just ask your cvs pharmacist. we search for savings for you. from coupons to lower costs options. plus, earn up to $50 extra bucks rewards each year just for filling at cvs pharmacy. >> breaking tonight. the ukrainian government says that a russian missile attack in the port city of odessa killed at least five people, including a young child. meanwhile, efforts to evacuate civilians out of mariupol have been again halted, and again, because of the ongoing threats of russian shelling. also breaking, excuse me, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy, saying that secretary of state antony blinken, and defense secretary lloyd austin will arrive in ukraine tomorrow for defense talks. and nbc news has not yet confirmed that claim, and no u.s. government agency has yet to comment on zelenskyy's remarks. the visit comes as early signs of doubt may actually start to emerge in moscow. bloomberg is reporting that a quote, small but growing number of senior kremlin insiders are quietly questioning putin's decision to go to war, which they reportedly view as quote, a catastrophic mistake. for more on all of this, and more, let's bring in michael weiss, news director at new orleans magazine, and author of the forthcoming history of russian military intelligence. michael, thanks for coming back on the program. your thoughts on the possible visit to ukraine from secretaries blinken and austin? if true, they would be the highest level u.s. officials to visit since the beginning of the war. obviously, we saw the british prime minister there. we've seen other senior european officials, and it may appear, according to zelenskyy, that now you have the state, secretary of state, and secretary of defense heading there. >> yeah, that's right. and the secretary of defense, i think, is going to germany to meet with some 40 countries that have committed arms and other material support to ukraine. so this would be a tremendous show of solidarity on the part of the united states, with the zelenskyy government. the government which, we thought was not supposed to last this long. remember the claims that he was gonna be about 72 hours before the russians had a swift and easy route of ukraine, and did their regime change project. so i think it's long overdue, and i think, as you mentioned, a host of other western states have been arriving in kyiv. boris johnson was there, just as i was leaving the country. a couple of weeks ago. the eu has reopened its mission, and the big question i have, it will united states reopen its embassy in kyiv? because that will also be a very symbolic gesture. >> and what do you make of the bloomberg reporting about kremlin advisors seeing the war as quote, catastrophic mistake that will set the country back for years? i mean, it's one thing for, quite honestly, everybody sees that it is catastrophic, so it's one thing for them to know it's catastrophic, it's another thing to talk amongst themselves about how it has become catastrophic for the country. that probably takes a little more courage? >> yeah, but i can tell you, i mean, at the very start of this thing, there are people inside moscow who thought this is gonna be a pig's breakfast. i talk to people, including, an audiotape of russian oligarch who says that with this kind of lost his mind, and he is destroying a project it was 20 plus years in the making. which is to say, the international integration of russia's economy with the west, all of that is now rent to sunder. we've seen incredible reports that putin has started purging members of his military security apparatus, including the head of, former i should say, former head of the s b c service. which have been responsible for the ukraine file. so there is a lot of discontempt. i remember speaking to a diplomat here in new york at the un, who said that's quite a lot of the russian mission to the united nations was caught completely off-guard. the announcement of this war. in other words, putin and the russians couldn't agree on their own, to basically carry water through the regime and the international four. so it seems like a lot of people from military, to the economic, to undo the intelligence experts in russia, think that this thing has gone sideways. and it's gonna be a massive potential problem for russia, but just four months to come, if not generations. >> speaking of oligarchs, you had this week, the russian oligarchy blasted what he called his countries quote, massacre in ukraine. oleg tinkov is considered one of russia's most well-known entrepreneurs. now, one of the most high-profile russians to publicly condemn putin's actions. i mean, you are talking about a contact it -- a recording you have another russian oligarch. your thoughts on this? and are we likely to see any consequences against these types of oligarchs, who are now feeling more emboldened to speak out, and condemn the invasion? >> look, i mean the ones who haven't been sanctioned are still susceptible to the pariah effect of sanctions. every russian businessman has seen essentially it's toxic. now they can't get foreign direct capital. they can't do business deals, with the investments they've been planning, concluding with a host of western financial institutions. but we're also seeing a kind of rally around the flag moment in russia. and this was >> -- this was inevitable. russia has gone from being an authoritarian state to a totalitarian state, within the past few months. just today, there was a reporting by independent russian outlet that textbooks are now being expunged of all positive references to ukraine. you know, the roofs, the kind of cradle western civilization, i don't know how they're gonna manage that one. you know, so we're seeing kind of a re-styling of russian society. and those who do not come to heal, which is to say, those who do not basically stand for putin and this war are going to face consequences. you're seeing also today, or this week, reports the two different russian oligarchs, one in moscow, the other in spain, murdered their families, and then committed quote, suicide, in gravely and eerily similar fashion. i would expect a lot more stuff like this coming down the pipe in the next few weeks and months. >> yeah, it's definitely troubling sign, and also i couldn't agree with you more that whatever was happening over the past 20 years, to try to get russia into with the western systems of economies and what have you, is story now being undone over the past 60 days or so. michael weiss, i want you to stick around. up next, i would ask your thoughts about the french elections, and what they mean in particular, because of the far-right candidate marine le pen and her ties to russia. 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this problem extends far beyond florida, and it's don't say gay law. and i just don't think americans have been able to process the scope of what is happening in this republican attack against our public school system. >> so thank you, and thank you for having me on. so, the architects of all of this are brazen in their transparency. one of the guys that has created this, basically he said, a couple of weeks ago, at the college that they founded, hills college, i quoted the name of the title of his lecture, laying siege to the institutions. and i'm just gonna read you one paragraph of what he said, and you will get it immediately. to get to universal school choice, you really need to operate from a premise of universal public school distrust. to sow and grow that distrust, you have to create your own narrative frame, and have to be brutal, and ruthless in pursuing it. so, the bottom line is, they just don't want public schools. you know, milton friedman and didn't want public schools. but again, they wanted to have a for universal vouchers systems. but this time, they don't even care if they have public education's, and they will brutalize anyone who is in their way. so, they're sowing distrust, that's what the masks were about. that is what this whole issue around teaching artist history is about. that is what this is about terrorizing gave families. and they're gonna go on, and on, and on, to try to sow distrust, and at the very same time, as parents need us to do everything in our power to help kids recover and thrive. and the teachers have done everything in their power to the last two years, to help kids recover. >> i mean, you describe it with such clarity, and it's just so powerful to hear you talk about it, because it seems like they want to make parents hate public schools, so that they can pave the way then for what they want to install in this country, as their better or preferred system of education. >> exactly. >> and you were just listening some of the things that they're trying to go after. they've got after tony morrison. they've gone after lgbtq books. they've gone after any kind of black history, and now, they're going after teachers. where could this moral panic take us next? >> look, the level of misinformation and disinformation, and smears and lies, are getting very, very dangerous. and people are really scared about it. at the same time, you know, parents are with us. look at what just happened in new hampshire, where there was this big push on, you know, getting rid of teaching, honest history. there was a bounty on teachers heads by this group called moms for liberty, that came out of florida. and, there was just 33 elections of school board members, and every school board member that was elected was a pro public education school board member. but i see it in the hundred schools that i have been to in the last year. parents want their kids to thrive. they're with us. but this is the attempt to sow dissent, sow distrust, and this is why i think you're seeing, ayman, this week, what happened to the state senator in michigan. what happened to me, in terms of the smears. it is just getting to a point of such recklessness, and heinousness, that they think that people are gonna hide, or just stop teaching it a way in which we have to teach kids, which is to think and to actually love your neighbor. and to actually bring people together, in a way that we have, the great community, the beloved community. >> i want to ask you about your threats, the ones that your personal receiving, in just a moment. but have you had conversations with lgbtq teachers, in terms of how they have been targeted, just for merely existing in the classroom? i mean, i remember teachers just openly talking about personal experiences, and what they're going through. and now we're seeing how by merely existing, they're targeted and smeared as a danger to their students. >> so, you know, obviously, i have, and i've talked to several gay teachers, who are members of our union, to just, you know, be their backstop. keith did an amazing petition for one of those teachers in florida. a remarkable elementary school teacher, kindergarten teacher, loved by his kids and the parents of his kids. and he was immediately terrorized, after the bill was passed and signed by desantis, because he's gay. we have to let gay kids, and gay teachers, frankly, we have to let everyone talk about their lived experience. that is part of how you build relationships. it's part of how you unite people. it's part of how you save democracy. >> i gotta ask you really quickly, though randi, just about the threats that you're receiving. i don't know if you've lost, too randi, we may have lost our connection with. you randi veingarten, thank you so much for joining us and speaking with such clarity about this. i still have an update on the biden administration student loan forgiveness efforts. enjoying chocolate cake. now, she can have her cake and eat it too. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? 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[ding] e*trade now from morgan stanley. >> we have some breaking news that we want to share with you just in, within this hour. >> we have some breaking news that we want to share with you former utah senator lauren just in, within this hour. former utah senator lauren hash has died. hash has died. according to the orange-y according to the orange-y hash foundation, he was 88 hash foundation, he was 88 years old. years old. he served as a united states senator for the state of utah, from 1977 to 2019. his 42 years senate tenure made him the longest serving republican u.s. senator in history, and the longest serving u.s. senator from utah. he retired in 2019, and of course warren hatch was the former president of the united states senate. and at various times during his career, excuse me, he also served as the chairman of the senate judiciary committee and the senate finance committee. senator hatch survived by his wife elaine and their six children. >> coming up this hour, how governor ron desantis's revenge on disney could help his -- hurt his own supporters. plus, is kevin mccarthy's chances of being how speaker over before it even begins? marjorie taylor greene can't recall anything about the capitol attacks. surprise, surprise. our panel will dive into the 80 plus times she feigned ignorance on the stand just this week. i am a man when he dean, let's get started. here is the problem with the republican party of 2022, there is no limit, nothing is out of line, nothing is too extreme for them. sure, there can be public outcry, there can be condemnation, there can be some strongly worded letters, but it doesn't stop the gop from going for broke. even if it means completely and totally deviating from the core values and principles. that's what we are seeing with the florida republican party. they're blind march towards extremism has led them to abandon both long-standing political philosophy and actually their own voters. it's equal parts fascinating and frightening. look how quickly small

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