trump's former and final chief of staff, mark meadows, was told that plans to try to overturn the 2020 election using so-called alternate electors were not legally sound and that the events of january 6th could turn violent, but meadows pushed forward with the rally anyway. during a march deposition, cassidy hutchinson, a white house aide in meadows' office told investigators that she knew meadows received information warning that there could be violence on january 6th, but she wasn't sure what he did with that information. the committee is putting forward this evidence in an attempt to persuade a federal judge to throw out meadows' suit against the panel and to force him to comply with its subpoenas, but as the committee battles with one of the failed ex-president's loyalists, it may soon turn its sights on another. republican house leader kevin mccarthy has been caught in an outright lie and there are audiotapes to prove it. in an article based on new york times journalist jonathan martin titled this will not pass. they reveal in the days following the january 6th riot, mccarthy said he would push president trump to resign because of his role in it. mccarthy claimed the story was totally false and wrong. that's a quote. a fabrication of the corporatist media, as he calls it. his spokesman outright denied that mccarthy told colleagues in a gop leadership meeting that he would urge mr. trump to leave office, but here's the thing. there's actually audio of it. msnbc obtained that audio. it first aired on the rachel maddow show on thursday night. mccarthy said the only discussion i would have with him is i think this would pass and it would be my recommendation you should resign, end quote. and what he says by i think this would pass it's clear from the context of the conversation that he means impeachment. then just yesterday the same new york times reporters revealed even more recordings of mccarthy and the reveal here is that mccarthy said president trump actually admitted bearing some responsibility for january 6th. >> let me be very clear to all of you and i have been very clear to the president. he bears responsibilities for his words and actions. no ifs, ands or buts. i asked him personally today does he hold responsibility for what happened? does he feel bad about what happened? he told me he does have some responsibility for what happened, and he needed to acknowledge that. >> i know this is not fun. i know this is not great. i know this is very tough, but what i want to do especially through here is i don't want to rush things. i want everybody to have all of the information needed. i've had it with this guy. what he did is unacceptable. nobody can defend that and nobody should defend it. >> i've had it with this guy. what he did was unacceptable. we now know that mccarthy went into publicly fall into lockstep with the failed former president and mccarthy did that despite telling his colleagues an entirely different story. i think that's called lying. but a little lying probably wouldn't bother an ex-president who lied over 30,000 times while in office according to washington post fact checkers. "the wall street journal" said the two men, mckarthy and trump spoke and he said he's not upset and while he was at it he issued a denial of his own telling the journal that he never claimed responsibility for the violence that occurred on january 6th despite the recordings of mccarthy saying otherwise. these revelations come as the house january 6th committee finalizes its investigation. i spoke with maryland democratic congressman and panel member jamie raskin last night about the mccarthy recordings. >> mccarthy's words that were captured on that tape in the discussion with the republican conference just reinforced everything we're finding which is that this was an orchestrated, premeditated assault on our system of government. >> joining me now is hugo lowell, he's a congressional reporter covering the january 6th committee for "the guardian." hugo, a torrent of activity and really the only place for it to go at the moment is the january 6th committee. they're taking this all in. they're trying to digest it and figure out what to do with it. how much of this is new? how much of it is just sort of politically embarrassing for kevin mccarthy as opposed to meaningful in terms of the investigation? >> i think most of it will fall into the politically embarrassing camp and they will establish some sort of criminal conspiracy on january 6 thath connect the political violence at the capitol to trump's political plan ask whether or not mccarthy was going to tell trump to resign in the days after january 6th. that doesn't really get to the heart of the investigation. the one thing they're interested in is hearing from mccarthy and why he thought the former president bore responsibility or why he said he admits that he has responsibility because it shows a guilty mind, and if it shows a guilty mind why does it show a guilty mind because he did coordinate with conduits with the military groups or he was trying to overturn the election and he knew it was unlawful and those are the things the commit wants to get to and that's where kevin mccarthy will find himself under the microscope if he goes before the committee. ? you heard a little bit of my conversation with jamie raskin who is postulating that, in fact, and you write about this, that donald trump was prepared to seize the presidency and likely invoke the insurrection act and declare martial law if the capitol attack had succeeded. in fact his military adviser, whatever you want to call him, michael flynn had floated the martial law idea out in public. tell me more about that because it changes how americans who watched january 6th proceedings and the public hearings in june need to think about this. >> yeah. i think people want to step back from the insurrection act discussions that trump was having with his closest advisors because it is so distasteful and it leaves such a bad taste in our mouth, but the point was, as you say leading up to the december 18, 2020, trump was in the oval office with people like mike flinn, sydney powell and he was discussing with them how to effectively take control of normal laws that have extraordinary power of the presidency that have voting machines and can invoke martial law. the conversation shifted leading up to january 6th when they went back to how can we legally overturn the election, but then after jan 6th failed my reporting suggests that trump went back to discussing the insurrection act and at least one of navarro's senior aides has admitted publicly that he told the president if there was any way to cross the rubicon. this is very much swirling around in the mind of the former president. >> hugo, thank you for your reporting on this. hugo lowell is a reporter of "the guardian." >> she serves on the house ways and means committee and was an impeachment manager for the ex-president's second trial. thank you for being with us congresswoman plaskett. you, again, i always turn to you because you did the job in the impeachment of laying out what was happening in real time and all of this information that you're getting, including the mccarthy conversations with donald trump, they all add meat to the framework the skeleton that you built. is there new information that you're getting or does this all as jamie raskin told me last night reinforce the narrative that you had already figured out? >> it really does add more flesh on to the body of what we did. i think we really laid the foundation and gave the frame works the skeleton and some of the sinu, but i think what we're seeing now is the parts, the inner parts of what was happening on the minds of individuals such as donald trump, such as kevin mccarthy. i mean, remember, we had a huge discussion with the republican side about whether or not to bring home the statement of herrera butler who stated that mccarthy told her that donald trump beared responsibility and the conversation that he had with donald trump, and this committee has taken -- gone to great lengths with tremendous staff to make sure that we have all of the details that we only knew as a shadow. it was a shadow before and now it's coming to light. >> one of the more interesting things about this in a new york times article was how mark meadows was warned that january 6th could turn violent. this was testimony that the january 6th committee was heard donald j. trump was told that plans to overturn the 2020 elections using so-called electors were not legally sound and the events of january 6th could push violent and the house committee investigating the capitol attack allege in a friday night court filing and that was last night. this is an important development because it separates the argument that some in donald trump's circle made to say we didn't like the election result, but we weren't looking for a coup or an insurrection. this little bit of information changes that. >> it does, and it shows that within the inner circle of donald trump they were keenly aware of what would happen. as i'm sure you'll recall, ali, during the presentation they gave the president himself changed the parameters of the permit which was originally just to stay in one area. he was the one who changed the permit to bring it to the capitol knowing at the time that those individuals who were involved in the planning, involved in bringing people had been violent within the last month, and so the recognition that there was going to be violence was not anything that was outside of the realm of possibility, you know, under legal parameters, it was, you know, beyond a reasonable doubt that violence was going to occur when you give those speeches that the president gave along with the parameters of the permit and the parties that were involved in it, that had to move forward. >> i will never forget the presentation and i recommend to people that you watch that back. the news reports and the individual vid why and you have graphics and pictures, and 3d pictures of the capitol. the public testimony in june will blow the roof off. will that move public opinion on the matter? because there are still a whole lot of people who don't like donald trump and don't like what happened on january 6th, but they see it as an aberration, an anomaly and that they need to move on. >> i am hopeful that the american people when they saw how involved the president was in knowing that there was going to be violence and actually attempting to overturn a democracy, right? and staging a coup with his military advisers. when that evidence comes i'm hopeful that it will awaken many people who had not wanted to be awake as to what's happening, and at the same time, i'm hopeful that the american people will recognize that many of my republican colleagues are cognizant of this, as well and that they deem their leadership, their power and their positions more important than they do the american people. we've seen this in their tax scam, ready to give money to the rich and take it away from middle class and average americans to overthrowing a government if it means that they can stay in office. they're much more concerned with themselves than they are with everyday americans. >> democratic representative plaskett from the virgin islands, we thank you for joining us this morning. a mass exodus from ukraine, more than 5 million people have fled the country, but where are they going to eventually land? president biden has got plans to streamline the refugee process in the united states, but the u.s. has not always been so kind to all refugees. plus, three sinister new anti-abortion laws in america target survivors of rape and incest. there was a time when republicans would detest this. apparently, not anymore. d detes. apparently, not anymore. ♪simply irresistible♪ ♪ ♪ ♪simply irresistible♪ applebee's irresist-a-bowls are back. now starting at $8.99. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. andrea: this is the hardest thing we will probably ever and every person... have to go through. st. jude has given us transportation, treatment. to know that we don't have bills, they take every other stress off of your shoulders. this week president biden announced a plan to streamline the process of admitting ukrainian refugees into the united states. the new program will require ukrainians to have a sponsor in the u.s. who can, quote, attest to their ability to support them. this builds on biden's plan to welcome 100,000 ukrainians from the war. 5 million people have fled ukraine since the start of the conflict and even more are displaced inside country. poland has by far welcomed the greatest number of ukrainian refugees of any country, 2.8 million. romania has admitted 774,000. hungary has taken in 485,000. in comparison, america's proposed 100,000 is a drop in the bucket, but if you look at how many refugees the united states takes in yearly 100,000 is massive by u.s. standards. every year the president sets a quota for how many refugees the united states will accept. for decades america was a lead are for refugee settlement according to other countries. until it lost its footing in 2017 when a particular xenophobic nationalist moved into the white house, even though that's not the reason to do it, the very first settlers to come here from europe were in fact refugees. the pilgrims fled the shores of america to escape persecution in england. the quest for their safety and identity is the birth of the nation. different administrations have varied on their effectiveness and humanity toward refugees, and american citizens of different origins. one of the america's biggest moments as the groundwork of the holocaust was in germany jews faced persecution so they fled. the "s.s. st. louis," mostly jewish refugees sailed to the florida coast after being denied landing in cuba. those 900 jews were sent back to an uncertain fate in europe and america's rejection was a death sentence. in 1945, after world war ii president harry truman attempted to make things right with the truman directive, an executive order using existing immigration laws to advocate for refugees coming into the united states from europe and the former soviet union. from 1949 to 1952, about half the 900,000 immigrants who entered the united states were considered displaced persons. fast forward to 1956, the hun fwarian revolution announced another directive. america was largely receptive of these refugees partly because of the positive image the government and the media painted of them, well-educated people who wished to integrate into american culture. in 1959 a wave of cuban refugees fled to the united states after fidel castro's guerilla fighters toppled the government. america saw them as welcome new commerce who brought economic revitalization to south florida, but everything changed on september 11, 2001. the 9/11 terrorist attacks put a hold on immigration reforms, refugee intake plummeted and it created rampant anti-muslim sentiment among some americans and politicians. between the years 2000 and 2002 president george bush reduced the refugee ceiling from 90,000 a year to 70,000. president obama worked to rebuild the resettlement system when the world needed it most. millions of middle eastern refugees were fleeing several bleed conflicts in the region. the bmw administration raise the ceiling to 85,000 refugees in 2016 and the next year obama proposed an increase to 110,000, but then a new president who had launched his campaign in a zeal of xenophobia came along and slashed that number. by 2020 the american refugee cap was just 18,000 a year, the absolute lowest in u.s. history at a time when america had received its highest number of applicants ever, mostly from central america. under the trump administration and the minds of many americans today there was this assumption that refugees pose a national security threat to the united states, a false narrative that letting people in exposes america to danger. interestingly, this is not the conversation that you'll hear around ukrainian refugees. no one is assuming that these ukrainian women and children are criminals or terrorists. that rhetoric does seem reserved solely for black and brown migrants. this is just a snapshot of america's fraught history with refugees. there are not enough hours in the day let alone in the show to cover all of the world's displaced people and the conflicts that have chased them from their homes though we try hard to keep our light shining on them on this show. america has always been better off because of the immigrants and refugees who settle here. always. they typically come here ready to participate in what they believe to be the liberties that exist in america. refugees are not a burden. they are an opportunity. america seems willing to give ukrainian refugees the opportunity to work hard and thrive in this nation. let this be a blueprint for how all refugees are treated in america no matter their skin color, religion, education, skill set or wealth and irrespective of the conflict from which they are running. (vo) get 5g that's ready right now. [♪♪] if you have diabetes, it's important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. try boost glucose control®. it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today. ♪ well, the stock is bubbling in the pot ♪ ♪ just till they taste what we've got ♪ [ tires squeal, crash ] when owning a small business gets real, progressive gets you right back to living the dream. now, where were we? [ cheering ] as we mentioned a moment ago more than 5 million people have fled ukraine since the start of the russian invasion, the majority being women and children. according to unicef two-thirds of ukraine's 7.5 million children have been forced to leave their homes while nearly half of those who remain in their homes may not have enough food. i want to bring in a friend of the show, dr. irwin renlenner he's been on the screen for the last two years informing us about the covid-19 pandemic and i originally met dr. redlenner with the syrian refugee children in 2015. he's joining us from poland where he's visiting with organizations who are caring for ukrainian refugees 2.8 million of them in neighboring countries since the start of the russian invasion. dr. renlenner is with disaster preparedness at columbia university. good to see you as always, thank you for being with us and for being where you are now. this is what you do. you've taken your expertise there you in. what are you learning? >> this is an incredibly challenging situation, ali. obviously, the first reality is this horrendous, violent war that destroyed many cities in ukraine especially in the eastern and southern part. so we have a mass migration, a very rapid migration of people out of harm's way, and they go to one of two places. one is they may go out of the country and become refugees. poland has taken refugees more than other countries with hungary and romania have taken their fair share and there are other people who decide to remain in ukraine, but go to a safer part. they go west towards the polish board, for instance. those are called eternally displaced people and we for warsaw for several days and have many programs, including schools. i think there are some images of one of the school settings that are classrooms full of ukraine high school students who have, you know, gotten out of ukraine and are trying to finish their education. it was extremely an enlightening and inspiring conversations that we were able to have with those student, but the problem, ali, is the question of scale. so there's 20,000 ukrainian children enrolled in schools in warsaw alone, but over 100,000 schoolchildren. are they in school? no one really knows and this is part of the chaos that the children and families are experiencing. >> for those pem that don't know -- >> the medical services or education or social services is a big challenge that occurs and we saw that in syria when we spoke years ago and greece with syrian refugees and it remains the same kind of problem with the ukraine rapidly moving population right now. >> for those that don't know, if you go to poland, it's a different language and a slavic language and it doesn't look the same. kids going to schools, part of it is a language issue and poland is doing a pretty good job of integrating the kids into schools. we were showing imagery of it. you were having a bit of a conversation with them and i want to play a bit of it and talk to you on the other side. >> okay. we don't have that. they had a message for people in america. what was it and how did that conversation go? if. >> i actually asked kids in the two classrooms that i spent>> i two classrooms that i spent time with. it was a fairly good amount of time f you had the opportunity to speak to american teenagers what was the message you would deliver? what was uniformly said is that teenagers in other parts of the world including america should appreciate what they have, number one, and number two and that everybody, teenagers everywhere should be aware of what's happening in the world and care about things that are happening beyond our own borders, and i think this was a plea saying basically we're all in this together. what can we do? how can we help each other and the least we can do in the u.s., let's say, is to make sure all of us there and especially their peers and teenagers who own the future are able to at least sympathize and empathize with their counterparts on other places. one of the things i was thinking about is maybe we can have a program of having schools in the u.s. connected with, say, schools in poland where refugees are, but there are a lot of things that could be done. we're looking now at a huge reception center where a couple of thousand people can stay and we just saw some images of the children's play room there and people in poland are doing an absolute remarkable job and doing the best they can to make it feasible for children and their families to be stable, to have hope and to be safe and to help them move on to the next place they're going to go to, so the whole thing has been an incredibly inspiring situation for karen and i as we tour these facilities in poland. >> we're grateful to you, although i have to say the worst part about this is that we keep having these conversations and i would like a day when disaster preparedness and children is obsolete. irwin redlenner. >> me, too. >> he is an msnbc public health analyst and with the national center for disaster preparedness at columbia university's research institute. coming up, we will have a live report from odesa. have a live report from odesa. ow all my owns shingles doesn't care. we've still got the best moves you've ever seen good for you, but shingles doesn't care. because 1 in 3 people will get shingles, you need protection. but, no matter how healthy you feel, your immune system declines as you age increasing your risk for getting shingles. so, what can protect you? shingrix protects. you can protect yourself from shingles with a vaccine proven to be over 90% effective. shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your pharmacist or doctor about shingrix. shingles doesn't care. but you should. andrea: you see things as a parent-- what your expectations are for your kid growing up, the milestones going to school, graduating and getting married, having kids. and cancer was never one of those milestones in my head. st. jude has given us hope, love, a home away from home. and it feels like home. you're more than just a patient or just another family here at st. jude. you're pretty particular about keeping a healthy body. what goes on it... usually. ♪♪ in it... mostly. even what gets near your body. please please please take that outside. here to meet those high standards is the walgreens health and wellness brand. over 2000 products. rigorously tested. walgreens pharmacist recommended... and particularly kind to your wallet. ♪♪ the bad guys is the winner of an the truly movingnd picture award. oh, stop! you making me blush. it's an action packed animated adventure. show the world that you're more than just a scary stereotype. everyone will love. is this wagging? - good right? in the last hour the ukrainian parliament member inna sovsun broke some news for us, an apparent russian missile strike if the key port city of odesa. i want to go to kelly cobiella who is in odesa right now for an update of what we know. kelly, what's the story? >> yeah, ali, we are just now getting details about what happened this afternoon. just to give you context we were on our way into odesa this afternoon at 1:45 local time, a couple of hours ago when we along with the rest of this region received an alert to seek shelter, an air raid alert. we then heard a series of low-level boom followed by one quite loud explosion and you could see smoke rising to the west of the city ever odesa. what we have learned since then from odesa city officials is that an apartment building was struck by cruise missiles this afternoon. it is not clear how many missiles struck that apartment building. city officials and other government officials are still gathering information on that and telling the likes of us in the media and others to stay away in part for safety reason, but you can see in the videos posted by locals on social media which we have not been able to verify, it appears to show a gaping hole in this quite large apartment building and ali, this is unusual because odesa, unlike other cities in ukraine has not seen a barrage of missiles. in fact, the last missile strike in this area was nearly three weeks ago, roughly three weeks ago on april 3rd and that was on an oil refinery and storage facility. so not on a civilian location. we're trying to gather more information as soon as we get the all clear from rescue services who are currently trying to rescue people from this apartment building we'll get out to that location and see what we can gather. >> continue to stay safe, kelly. thank you for bringing us up to speed. kelly cobiella, we are covering news about what appear to be multiple missile strikes. my colleague tiffany cross will continue the coverage of ukraine and the rest of the stories at the top of the hour. my friend, it is good to be back stateside with you and i'm looking forward to your show. what do you have lined up for us today? >> first of all, i have to commend you on the amazing reporting you did while you were in poland. every morning watching you work, it just made us all try to be better and try to be like ali, so very happy to have you stateside and safe. >> thank you, friend. >>. >> we do have a busy show coming up on "the cross connection qwest ". we'll be diving into the war in ukraine focusing on the latest atrocities with civilians with senior adviser nayera hawk and who just like you returned from the region. first, i want to talk about black republican and how they fare in a party that doesn't speak to the needs of the community. >> yeah. >> many people want workers to get right back to work in person and a lot of people are saying not so fast. not like you and me, ali. we're in the office. some people don't want to come back and they want to talk about covid and it's about how people's work environments impacted what they did. so all of this and more starting in just a few minutes on "the cross connection ". i am so happy to share the screen with you. i've missed our teases and miss seeing your face back here safe. >> bless you, my friend. >> we're getting closer. we will ultimately be in the same place soon. your show looks fantastic and looking forward to it, tiffany. thank you so much. catch "the cross connection" with tiffany cross at 10:00 a.m. eastern right after "velshi." gop-led states are following the texas template and how to keep clinics, patients and providers safe. clinics, patients and providers safe ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. what happens when performance... meets power? you try crazy things... ...because you're crazy... ...and you like it. you get bigger... ...badder... ...faster. ♪ you can never have too much of a good thing... and power is a very good thing. ♪ faces get all the love what about the body? new dove shower collection is infused with hyaluronic and peptide serums to make your skin feel smoother and more radiant. new dove body love. face care ingredients now in the shower. it's still the eat fresh refresh™ and subway's refreshing everything like the new honey mustard rotisserie-style chicken. it's sweet, it's tangy, it's tender, it never misses. you could say it's the steph curry of footlongs. you could, but i'm not gonna. subway keeps refreshing and refreshing and re... maybe it's another refill at your favorite diner... or waiting for the 7:12 bus... or sunday afternoon in the produce aisle. these moments may not seem remarkable. but at pfizer, protecting the regular routine, and everyday drives us to reach for exceptional. working to impact hundreds of millions of lives... young and old. it's what we call, the pursuit of normal. ♪ ♪ hey businesses! iyou all deservel, thesomething epic!mal. so we're giving every business, our best deals on every iphone - including the iphone 13 pro with 5g. that's the one with the amazing camera? yep! every business deserves it... like one's that re-opened! hi, we have an appointment. and every new business that just opened! like aromatherapy rugs! i'll take one in blue please! it's not complicated. at&t is giving new and existing business customers our best deals on every iphone. ♪ ♪ is. the last two abortion clinics in kentucky are open again after they were forced to temporarily shut down about a week ago when a new state law immediately went into effect. that law is a tangle of restrictions that includes a ban on all abortions after the 15th week of pregnancy, limits on patients' access to telehealth and medication abortions and targeted unnecessary new regulations for clinics. on thursday a federal judge temporarily blocked its enforce am, but kentucky's law is one of a trio of restrictive abortion laws that were recently signed or enacted across the united states in the same week. in florida, governor ron desantis also signed 15-week ban. in oklahoma a you in law made it punishable by up to ten years in prison and a $100,000 fine. it will go into effect as soon as this summer if the courts don't block it. there's one clause that those laws have in common. none of them include exceptions for rape or incest. even the most onerous anti-abortion laws typically carve out exceptions for violence, but not anymore. the contingent of the republican party have now become so radicalized that they're signed into law for sexual violence for forced pregnancy and child birth. this is not an accident and a conscious choice and a targeting of a vulnerable population. exceptions for rape and incest were widely agreed upon publicly as policy of anti-abortion republicans. donald trump and mitt romney voiced their support for these exceptions in 2019, but today the republican party in utah where romney serves as senator will have a platform that explicit le removes the language regarding those exceptions. it's a small, but key example of the dystopian future that could be in store for us as new ultra-conservative trump-stacked supreme court appears poised to tear down the nearly 50-year precedent set by roe v. wade and anti-abortion activists take note. there's a lot to unpack here and i have the two perfect experts to help me do it. i'll talk to elizabeth nash who tracks anti-abortion lawmakers and duvern who keeps patients and providers safe from anti-abortion extremists. m anti-abortion extremists you get a smile on your plate. only from ihop. join the rewards program and earn double pancoins with any omelette purchase. subject 1: st. jude affects all corners of the world for good. i mean if you think about organizations that affect the entire world, it's a short list. taking care of kids. kids as a priority. taking care of the families as a whole. subject 2: without donations, without people that care for st. jude and for the kids at st. jude, our max wouldn't be here. subject 1: you are making a difference, not just in a hospital but an entire world. when it comes to tech, everyone wants the next best thing. now with xfi complete from xfinity, you can get updated wifi technology with the new tech upgrade program. plus, protection from cyber threats at home and now on the go. so staying up to date is easier than ever. you look great by the way. right? unbeatable internet. made to do anything so you can do anything. only xfinity will upgrade your tech after 3 years for a more reliable connection. get that and more with xfi complete. upgrade today. more and more red states are passing laws making it nearly impossible for anybody to get an abortion. nash who's been following the movement for many year. and director of the feminist majorityan foundation's nationa clinic access project. thank you both for joining us. elizabeth, let me start with you.ar there was ath tweet interesting about thesetw exceptions for ra andio incest, saying the inclusn of exceptions is an attempt to make horrible laws look less cruel. the best way to support survivors isn't to create a maze of burdens that will limit care even among those who are, quote, qualified. it's to remove the restrictions, and bans entirely. give me context here. you're saying the exclusions for rape and incest were sort of a whitewash? >> exactly. you know, what we're talking about when we're talking about exceptions is we're missing the boat on the ban itself, right? we're missing the boat on the fact that a 15 or 16-week ban is harming lots ofba people. two, exceptions for rapes, and how many people will report it, and thenor how many go to court ando how many where somebody i convicted. you can see how it just narrows and narrows into a very, very small percentage. but then, also if we're talking aboutwe rape and incest exceptions, we'rees making a decision about which exceptions are good and which exceptions are bad, you know? and we're passing a judgment call on the reason for abortion. >> right, because you're putting people into buckets. >> daverne, this radicalization has its own impacts. nine anti-abortion activists were -- it's harassment of either patients or providers. this weaponization of trauma and fear is becoming more tangible. >> that's right. we're very pleased with this case. it's a critical case, ali. what is happened is we've had over 50 clinic invasions since 2017. it's a campaign designed to intimidate and terrorize providers and the patients they serve. this is a critical case. it's not just a free entrance access case, but also a case that is pinned on the civil rights statute of conspiracy. it's a conspiracy case and it indicts those individuals for conspiring to provider this group of people for a right to seek or obtain reproductive healthcare r services. that comes with a whole set of penalties that are much more substantive in terms of a felony with prison time and that's crucial. so we're really -- really pleased in that's department of justice has filed this case. >> elizabeth, you've been tracking state retrick for a long time. to most people who don't follow it as closely as you do, this is a supreme court issue. but states have been imposing these restrictions for a very long time. what's your sense of where this goes? we could end up with a de facto situation, where we might even have roe v. wade survive the supreme court and still lose abortion rights across the country. >>ss absolutely. we are expecting the supreme court, just by taking the mississippi case, the court was indicating they were going to undermine abortion rights. so we're expecting a decision that will a at least substantia damage if not overturn abortion rights. that means states can regulate abortion at the state level. what we have already seen are 22 statesn have adopted over the past several years early abortion bans, what we call trigger bans, bans that go into effect if roe is overturned and total bans. pretty muchd all of these bans are blocked in the courts, but ifin the court does overturn abortion rights, we are looking at the states seeking to enforce these bans. even if the course substantially damages abortion rights, we're looking at these states to try to enforce these bans. we'll have even more bifurcated situation on the ground where the states in the west and the northeast and mid-atlantic and a few in the middle are looking to protect abortion rights. most of the states in the middle and the south are trying to ban it. >> i might have guessed as they laws become more radical and they exceptions fall away, that people who otherwise supported abortion restrictions might shy away from it, if you're not making exceptions -- but that's not actually the case. they're calling this the post-roe generation, and there does not seem to be growing opposition among conservative circles to these laws being written out. not sure that's true. there's an effort to rebrand this group to a younger crowd, but if you look at the statistics, over 67% of people between the 6 ages of 18 and 29 believe in zero or very few restrictions on abortion access. they're just trying to make the optics look better. i still am convinced that young people are absolutely opposed to these kinds of laws. the key is to stop the gerrymandering, and trying to turn young people out to vote, and feel like they have something to vote for. this is v obviously a huge issu especially in midterm elections. can we mobilize young people to register and vote. that's part of our job. they're totally with us, i'm convinced. i hope we can do that. we'll find out. >> you bring some optimism to the discussion. thank you both this morning. before we go, i want to quickly go back to kelly cobiella, who has more information on the russian strike in odesa. >> reporter: just more clarity on what was orstruck. the ukrainian military telling us, first of all, two cruise missiles were intercepted, shot down by the air defense system, along with two missile-guiding drones that helped evade the air defense system. two missiles, two drones shot down, two cruise missiles did get through, with you striking a military facility, according to the ukrainian military. the other striking two apartment buildings, also causing several cars on the street to catch fire. as i noted before, ali, the rescue mission is still underway. >> just to be clear, you heard some of it as you were coming in? >> yeah, we were just pulling into the city, arriving at our hotel, when he heard a series of low-level booms, which was likely theas missiles being intercepted, and then a very loud explosion. there was smoke rising to the west of the city, and we've seen reports on social media of a building with a huge gaping hole, what is clearly a residential building, but we haven't seenbu it for ourselves. we're waiting for the all clear from officials there, that it's okay to go and do some reporting on the ground. >> thank you, we'll keep a close eye today. kelly cobiella. that's does it for me. catch it for me tomorrow morning 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. "the cross connection" with tiffany cross begins right now. good morning, everyone, welcome to "the cross connection." we begin our show with the not so shocking revelation that kevin mccarthy's lies have finally caught up with him. he's learning the hard way that audio recordings do in fact exist. msnbc has obtained the reporting. this is what he was telling colleagues privately. >> let me be very clear to all of you, and i've been very clear