diminish. several strikes in lviv, a city a safe haven for ukrainians escaping the war. and the resulted in that city's first civilians deaths. seven killed according to officials and 11 people injured. among the injured a child seen here. fled with his mother from kharkiv in eastern ukraine that seen intense fighting for weeks now. leaving the lviv mayor to say today in ukraine there are no safe and unsafer cities. on saturday a missile destroyed a facility run by world charity kitchen. it is feeding thousands of ukrainians in need. the ceo of world central kitchen captured the aftermath of that air strike. >> this was a big hit as you can see. over a dozen cars burned out all around me. pieces of cars in a tree here. just a tremendous amount of carnage left behind for no reason. >> speaking of carnage few ukrainian cities experienced the ceaseless violence as much as mariupol has. there a small band of ukrainian forces are still holding outside inside a steel plant and ignored a sunday deadline given to surrender from moscow. 0 officials believe up to 20,000 residents are held in a so-called filtration camp before they are deported to russia. nbc news has not been able to verify the claim but the pentagon says there are indications that ukrainians forced to go to russia against their will. the description is described as dire and heart breaking but the ukrainian foreign minister. >> the city doesn't exist anymore. the remaining ukrainian army and large group of civilians are basically encircled by the russian forces. they continue the struggle but it seems from the way the russian army behaves in mariupol they decided to raze the city to the ground at any cost. >> zelenskyy said it could be a red line to end to the negotiations which have been continuing among lower level officials for weeks now as both governments gear up in the donbas region. president zelenskyy underscored the importance of the fight for the donbas saying he would not give up ground and the battle to influence the war. joining the coverage msnbc military analyst four star general barry mccaffrey and claire mccaskill is here. general mccaffrey, when you look at the russian tactics in mariupol where the dominance isn't really in dispute in terms of numbers there's not a fast or short victory. what does that say about the places where the russians so outnumber the ukrainians? >> it's been a surprising level of incompetence. it is hard to understand why the russians want to be balled up in city fighting in mariupol. it's almost imporl to move through rubbled cities. why they didn't encircle it and bypass it is beyond me. they're incompetent at the general level and indisciplined, brutal. use starvation and indirect fires on civilians. they're hoping instability and the fleeing of the civilian population will cause capitulation. now the big battle looms in the near future. the battle not for the donbas but for the survival of the ukrainian army or the russian forces. >> general, the strikes in lviv seem to have two intended consequences. the dearth and destruction and injuries that the strikes themselves cause and also this interesting request from president zelenskyy to president biden to declare russia a state sponsor of terror and seems to be in line with that kind of attack to make sure that no part of ukraine is safe why what do you think is behind the strikes in lviv? >> i think you just said it. essentially the only tool that putin now thinks he has that's working is to strike civilian targets and infrastructure. it is a violation of the international laws of war. it doesn't affect the military balance of power. i think the russians have been reluctant to get too close to the nato presence in poland, romania and the other two nato adjoining countries. they're also enraged at the loss of that flagship. not just symbolic. it was a command and control ship and the air defense capability for fighting in the south. putin is running out of options. >> that is something that i think needs president zelenskyy to describe what that means for that his country and he talked about the possibility, the prospect of nuclear weapons used by putin. >> translator: there is a possibility of them using these weapons. nobody expected there to be a full-scale invasion of ukraine from the russian federation. no one expected a war in 2014. now that there will be a full-scale invasion and killing of civilians. nobody expected them to invade where there is a military equipment and just shoot dead the 1i68ian population. this is a fact and it happened and this is when russia gives information and says if something goes not according to plan they can use chemical weapons and the nuclear possibility. that's why i believe these are dangerous claims of untrustworthy people and if we believe they're untrustworthy they can use nuclear weapons. >> this view of putin seems to be shared by president biden from calling him a war criminal to calling what he is doing inside ukraine a genocide. do you share president zelenskyy's assessment of putin? >> i do. i think what's important here and one thing you have done well on the show and that is to not let the american people avert the glance to the ukraine. we have a low attention span in this country. we like to move on to the next news story. this is a story of immense human tragedy. i was surprised to learn as was reported earlier today that -- i bet republicans in congress would be surprised to hear this. the third most common nationality trying to get across the southern border of the united states are ukrainians. they're ukrainians trying to enter the southern border of the united states. putin has shown when his incompetence as general mccaffrey said, the competence is viewed by the whole world and though surrounded by sycophants he has to know that russia looks weak right now and a dangerous way for putin to feel. >> ali arouzi joins us now live from lviv. ali, we have been talking about the strikes in lviv. i know you have firsthand accounts of what that was like. tell me how the strikes have changed this perception -- because i guess it was never a reality but a perception of safety there. >> reporter: that's right. we were doing an interview with a terrorism expert and a mile from where the strikes happened. we heard a whistle go over our head and then a thud. and then we heard another whistle, looked up and we saw a missile going over the heads. so big i actually at first thought it was an airplane and then learned they're the size of a small jet and then those two or three more orr the head and hit an area about a mile away from us and there is a very disconcerting whistling sound and then thud after thud. it was upsetting for us. i have been never seen a cruise missile fly over my head and did a lot of damage. the targets in it lviv before on the outskirts of the city. strategic locations. fuel depot. airplane repair facility. this is at 8:30 in the morning. the ukrainian authorities say that they hit a couple of military installations. possibly where weapons from the west being stored but also did hit an auto repair shop and a tire refitting shop and that's where people going at 8:30 in the morning to get the car tuned up. this is the first time anybody was killed in lviv. seven people killed. 3-year-old child injured in that air strike and a tragedy of that is that child just recently escaped from kharkiv. brought over here to lviv for safety and then injured by a russian missile. this is tragedy after tragedy. lviv has always been a safe zone for people to come that have been displaced from the east of the country. nobody here believes it is a sanctuary for people. you talk to people in lviv. they ask when another will happen again. >> does it change anything about how president zelenskyy is bringing military equipment or food aid or any of his plans for where to stage resources for other harder hit parts of the country? the fact that lviv is now on the table for the russians. >> reporter: it's very difficult to change that because of geography. can't get anything in from the north or the east because that's belarus and russia and a strong foothold in the south and still control the black sea and only way to get supplies from the west in is through the west of the country so the ukrainians are very savvy, smart. they figure out ways to do things. things have to come in there and that's why there's such a concern that lviv will be a target because they have fuel detos and supply lines from here. that fuel depot was giving fuel to the troops on the front line. the feeling is that this war is certainly going to expand west ward. the more desperate putin is the broader the canvas of attacks will be in this country and it's more than disconcerting but really racked them and nobody feels safe anymore. they felt relatively safe in lviv. they don't today. >> we talked day after day about the cruelty of the russian battle plan being the point of the russian military strategy. general mccaffrey mentioned the humiliation inside russia of losing the flagship. on top of the humiliation and it feels like in that strike near kee on friday and in lviv feels like brutality and revenge. how does that have ukrainians sort of girding for something uglier? >> reporter: that's exactly right. it is this poisonous mix of revenge and war strategy. as we have spoken about, they made absolutely no distinction between military targets and the besieged population here. hitting the civilian population is part of that plan. they want them to be scared and say, okay, we have had enough. the russians don't control any land in this country. not taken the major cities and become more and more brutal as the war goes on. seeing poor old mariupol. pounding mariupol for 54 days. striking it with missiles and from the air and giving the soldiers to surpder or die and they took the die option. we gist heard today from officials about 1,000 people mostly women and children hiding in the basement of that steel factory that the russians trying to get. that's a tarkt for the russians and something to capture in that basement because they flat chbed the city and don't have anywhere else to hide. we have seen in bucha and irpin. i think what comes out of mariupol is horrifying and they brace themselves for the pictures and the stories and inhumanity. they're exhuming bodies the russians in mariupol to cover up evidence of the war crimes. people that have to but ri them in the front line put observers to not allow them to do it. mariupol city council said they can't cover up the atrocities. as the governor said it is wiped off the face of the earth. >> i think described as hell on earth by a ukrainian official. it is not lost on me that you are standing in a place that's part of the russian battle plan so i say this every time but please, please stay safe, my friend. thank you so much for spending time with us. >> reporter: thank you. >> barry, i want to come back to you with this plan and strategy, this dead-end nature of the russian military strategy in mariupol. we talked already but when you have 1,000 civilians hiding in a basement and ukrainian forces refusing to capitulate to the russians, how sustainable is that as a standoff? >> won't have to assume it is not sustainable in the longer run but part of what happened now is the civilian population watched the atrocities at the battalion level. there's an incentive to fight to the death or run. can't get out. they will stay in there and fight knowing the alternative will leave to executions. the big challenge right now isn't in mariupol. it is can the u.s. and our 15 participating allies, the coalition of the willing, get across the border the modern technology, qualitative advantage to enable them to fight a war of maneuver and fire power in the east? the object of the russians isn't donbas. it is the destruction of the ukrainian army. >> yeah. at which point the state ceases to exist. that's the challenge. i'm sure the biden administration is working it but time is of the essence. >> claire, some reporting in "the washington post." certainly in line with or corroborates what the venge describing about the russian strategy. lethal darts fired into the ukrainian neighborhood by the thousands. outside of kyiv carrots in the house, garden and deadly russian mini arrows in the wall. a russian artillery shell burst overhead days before withdraw. seeding the area with thousands darts. these are called rarely seen or used in modern conflict. many landed in the street he said and some observed by "the washington post" reporters among fields of gear and chocolate bar abandoned by retreating soldiers. also news reports about the use of cluster bombs, starvation as a strategy of the russian military. is this a campaign of terrorism? is as zelenskyy asked president biden to do on friday, is it a debate inside the administration whether or not to sanction russia as a state sponsor of terror? >> i think there is a debate. clearly what we have is a toxic stew of incompetence, of a lack of morality, of a lack of respect for the rules of warfare in the modern world. and then you slam that right up against the reality of the technology we have at this point in time in history which is that all of this is being recorded. and felt, felt viscerally by millions of people across the world. particularly felt viscerally by the people of ukraine. what is going to happen here is no matter what happens in mariupol or what happens in other places, russia will never be able to conquer the hearts and minds of the ukrainian people now. that has taken the same course as their flagship. it has sunk. so this idea that he is peddling to the russian people to liberate ukrainians wont them there. they will be greeted with open arms. they will hate russians generations to come. something that putin cannot do anything about and protend well to restore the u.s.s.r. >> claire articulated a structural disadvantage to putin's strategy, the path that he's taken, in ukraine. the other which you described since day one which is the incompetence of the battle plan itself and the forces and the materials and the equipment and arranged and marched into the country. on the other side is this sealed information bubble and vladimir putin at least from the outside seems to rule the day in terms of why the russians are in ukraine and the mission. how do you see cracks in that campaign of disinformation as the facts and the reality of a sunk flagship, massive casualties among the russian troops and immediate family members or friends who will hate russia forever? >> there's an orwellian dimension to this. i spend time listening directly with subtitles, captions, to russians talking to the media on state tv. it is simply chilling to listen to them. so a huge percentage russian population is not talking about brothers and sisters in ukraine but talking about killing the people and eliminating the state and talking about concentration camps for the elites and there's a woman on state tv talking about she wants all free information shut down inside russia. some of this is fear and sucking up to the authorities but a lot of it is i think a result of putin's internal disinformation campaign. you are right that right now the sub position is 35,000 killed or wounded or more and sailors drowned. that will influence the thinking over time. not now. >> chilling. thank you so much for starting us off today. after the break for us, more with igor. he is president zelenskyy's former aid living in ukraine. we'll talk to him next. plus the receipts for republicans with the audacity to grumble that military aid for ukraine too little too late. really? 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- good right? there's been some heavy fighting in the last couple of days in the donbas particularly and we have also seen the russians move in elements to help them sustain that kind of fighting so command and control enablers, some additional artillery. they are trying to set the conditions so that they can conduct longer term military offensive operations in the donbas. the flow of security continues into ukraine. we have not missed a day in weeks of material getting into the region. eight to ten flights a day from the united states and other partner nations. >> pentagon press secretary kirby earlier as the war is poised to enter a deadlier stage. especially in the eastern portion of ukraine. joining us now our friend igor, former consultant to igor. how are you? >> i'm fine but i'm worried. my cousin is a soldier in eastern ukraine. he had the day off yesterday and just horrifying. you know? i don't know what will happen like soon. >> what is he worried about? when you talk to him, are his concerns about the war crimes and the brutality of the russian tactics, the treatment of the civilians? take me through what he is seeing. >> you need to know his story. basically he was a medium level or level lawyer and got a house next to the airport and literally the house one of the first one destroyed when russia attacked in 2014. so he moved out to -- out of the occupied territory. he built another house. that house has been leveled like literally a few weeks ago and he actually got to see his house destroyed and battalion fighting outside the area and saw everything. look. for him, it is a matter of fighting for his country to the very last t-shirt he has because he called me. one of the stories he told me when the house was destroyed saying i realized that the backpack, my kalashnikov and two t-shirts i have is all that i have in this world. he moved the family out and then further west. ukraine is full of stories like that. >> people who 50 -- what? 55, 56 days ago were going to jobs in offices and doing the same stupid stuff we do here on the front lines of a war and in his case watched two homes destroyed by the russians. tell me what your fears are for -- maybe you know more than we know. for what has happened in mariupol. >> mariupol is literally as you know one of the battalion leaders described to it the pope is hell on effort. there is a steel works. it is a series of bunkers where they are hiding. more than a thousand civilian. elderly, women and children. rush is beginning heavy bombardments with the heaviest bombs they have. they are willing to slaughter 1,000 civilians. another terrible story in the south is under intense fire at the moment. i have friends there and exchanging text messaging saying it's intense and electricity is out in some parts but the battle of donbas started officially. you know? that's the battle that will not be deciding the future of this state but the future of the world. it sounds pop culture but it is true. >> say more. >> well, look. i'm less worried about the battle of donbas. ukrainian armed forces are the hope here and the best diplomat that we have in the bilateral relationship with russia. i'm worried about the battle in the world for lessons learned. i was doing an interview a few days ago and literally waiting to go on the air i heard a lot of displeased people in the west hurting at the gas pumps. russia attacked ukraine in 2014. we have electric cars, hydrogen vehicles and we have eight years to prepare and did nothing. angela merkel of germany gave up on nuclear power and probably now fearing hiroshima because of what she did and the battle we need to fight at the moment and like look. i hope that we're going to learn the lessons. one less story i was told yesterday is a few american banks winded down the business in russia. i quote. we will be done in a few months or years. fair enough. let the people in mariupol wait for you to wind down the business. you had eight years to prepare for that. that's what we live in but i hope that the humanity will learn the lessons. >> there is an exasperation that you're echoing that president zelenskyy reveals in an interview with two journalists in "the atlantic" and it's in the context of the weapons saying i feel like bill murray in "groundhog day." i have to go to the list of the weapons that we need. we have talked about a third fear you have had and i'm sure you have about the attention span in this country. a slap can distract us from some of the bloodiest days of the war. in this country there's a lot of awe at your president's ability to maintain the focus of this white house and the president and the west. take me behind the scenes in understanding what you feel like is working and where your concerns lie about people getting distracted or taking too long or the toll, the cost in civilian lives. we haven't talked about lviv but the first civilian deaths where people thought they were safe. >> my heart goes out to the seven innocent civilians who lost their lives today in lviv but let me describe the brutal reality. the seven people in the war of tens of thousands. you know? i have spoken to a friend in kyiv. he said we got so used to it and adapted. if people in ukraine are getting used to the death and destruction surrounding them when are we going to hear and see that fatigue in the west. for everyone it is a bowl of 12 nobody remembers. i start to see the signs of it so that's like one of the worries. what president zelenskyy is doing and triging to speak to the people and the parliaments, the democratic representatives to try to glue and unite the society. russia military hardware might be obsolete and that warship is sleeping with spongebob but you know what they're doing with misinformation and there's radical politicians like kremlin stooges winning elections. the greed weaponized. an example. won't be a funny stories. i can't force myself to laugh about it. so semi positive story. remember the t-shirt i wore to a show we did. >> yes. >> i got to wear one in europe today and sold all over the place and that's the way the corporate kind of greedy nature works. a reason that that idea came from an idea for a brand that my older daughter and my wife had. you know? called brandless. so basically everything that you can do with that you know? everything ending with less. i thought it was a good idea to launch it and donate the money to ukraine and preoccupied with the war and people selling them all over the place now and then blame germany for nord stream 2. look. russia is going to mobilize now. against the enemy that they have and their enemy as they say openly is the collective west. when are we going to mobilize? and make sure that we win this for the free world. >> i cannot leave you without asking your family and young daughters are doing. >> they will be in disneyland. i'm in paris on a work trip and will be leaving back to kyiv. they will be in disneyland on wednesday if everything goes well and in a bit more than a day so i'll make sure they record a video to share the experience. people are waiting for that. >> disney lachbdland is a real escape as you have to take shelter. you said last time that -- you broke the news about the flagship being sunk. we covered that after your appearance and kids knowing kids. who have died now. has haunted all of us. we'll continue to call on you. thank you for spending time with us. please stay safe. >> thank you. >> thank you. up next for us from the party that brought you the quid pro quo scandal, the finger wagging from the gop that's making our heads spin. that's next. next. ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. first psoriasis, then psoriatic arthritis. even walking was tough. i had to do something. i started cosentyx®. cosentyx can help you move, look, and feel better... by treating the multiple symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting...get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections some serious... and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms... or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms... develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. watch me. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. 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[lazer beam and sizzling sounds] ♪♪ so over the weekend republican house minority leader kevin mccarthy either ignorant of which is always possible with him or unbothered by also likely his own continued startling hypocrisy suggested russia would never have invaded ukraine ever in the first place if the u.s. had simply provided weapons to president zelenskyy sooner. here's why that matters. just two years ago he repeatedly defended the twice impeached ex-president's campaign to hold ill military aid for ukraine in the demented attempt to demand political help from president zelenskyy alock with 194 other house republicans voted against the first impeachment for abuse of power in that investigation. let's bring in former republican congressman david jolly and political analyst and national chairman of the serve america movement. it is sort of an audacity of dopes to make these comments but it shows how deadly serious the ex-president's act was of holding up miltd assistance for ukraine, david jolly. >> yeah. as you said for mccarthy it's ignorance or indifference. both of which is often guilt of. if it didn't pertain to national security we could laugh about it. if he thinks he can become speaker by saying it he'll say it why the words are meaningless right now. what it is indicative of and the doinger is the level of negative partisanship around a matter of global security. as much as the biden administration pursued a strategy that it thinks is just aggressive enough and keeping us out of actual conflict vladimir putin controls many of the next steps. escalating this through chemical weapons what does the west do then? there is a way in which the u.s. will have to continue to come close to actual conflict and where the leaders of the house and senate and white house need to be on a unified front right now. not taking pot shots at each other. >> i won't stop taking pot shots at them because they didn't vote to affirm the commitment to nato. i think calling them out is what democrats who care about national security should do. right? >> and i agree with that. we have to acknowledge what calling them out means which is recognizing the real destructive narrative they lay on the body politic of a nation facing an increased security moment. it's malfeasance on their part. given the trump situation. i think it's important to con tex contextualize this. while playing politics with the biden administration it is a dangerous way and we have to focus on the danger brought into the conversation by doing this and not just the politics through which they see this. >> i could not agree more. my point is if the parties were reversed republicans would make it a poison pill. the republican party under mccarthy and mitch mcconnell are a threat to national security, at home and the global security arrangements. why isn't that part of the conversation about the economy that democrats are prosecuting aggressively and on the offense for the midterms? >> it is interesting. i think since donald trump the republican party has been so transformed, he has become such a role model for success for republican politicians and engenders hypocrisy, fraud, lying as a major part of the public service so that's why you see all of this. this hypocrisy where they spent years talking about hillary's emails and yet nothing about top secret files stolen from the white house by donald trump. it's why we continue to focus on what -- frankly not enough on what we have done but focus on what we haven't gotten done instead of focusing on the serious problems the republican party has. the hypocrisy of mccarthy, the concern for the jewish community and failed to call out members of the caucus going to white national groups and speaking. he did nothing. josh hawley voting against aid to ukraine and then mouthing this administration wasn't doing enough. it is everywhere in their midst and we are doing a bad job of pointing out the hypocrisy and we should quit talking about what we haven't gotten done and talk about the internal problems and what we have gotten done. >> it is not their internal problems but the threat to us and the constituents. more on the other side. 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>> i think you have to position republicans as putting their political interests over patriotism. they're willing to risk the fabric and integrity of our republic for their own elevation to higher office. that's the lesson of the donald trump years. it's the lesson of today's republican party. they will put in place anybody in local and state offices. they will try to tamper with the national election by playing with international security if it elevates the republican party to control. it's a dangerous political movement in the united states today that is being affirmed by a large swath of american voters. we have to change the conversation and recognize that we're seeing a tearing apart of our culture. if democrats can find a way to broaden the coalition and lead us to a more healing moment of our national politics, you'll move the republicans to minority status. >> what they have going for them, david, is the truth. sean hannity gave donald trump his second shot to condemn vladimir putin as a war criminal. practically begged him to say it. he wouldn't say it. if the shoe were on the other foot, every democrat would have been asked if they greed with the ex president who couldn't say anything bad about vladimir putin. what do you think the missing chip is to make that argument on the part of democrats? >> republicans have been able to succeed by selling a lack of humanity. it's a weird moment. i look at how donald trump and republicans handle what they're seeing on the world stage and how they ignore it to a statement that bill clinton said after leaving office. one of his great regrets was not doing enough in the balkans when we found out about the genocide. this is a moment where we should be leading with american might to save humanity. republicans are ignoring that theme. it's hard to understand. >> david jolly, claire mccaskill, thank you for spending time with us on these stories. i'm grateful. still ahead the pro democracy activist making life uncomfortable for russian diplomats in washington. don't go anywhere. n't go anywhe. . the only one of its kind proven to help you live significantly longer when taken with fulvestrant, regardless of menopause status. verzenio + fulvestrant is for hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer that has progressed after hormone therapy. diarrhea is common, may be severe, or cause dehydration or infection. at the first sign, call your doctor start an anti-diarrheal and drink fluids. before taking verzenio, tell your doctor about any fever, chills, or other signs of infection. verzenio may cause low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infection that can lead to death. life-threatening lung inflammation can occur. tell your doctor about any new or worsening trouble breathing, cough, or chest pain. serious liver problems can happen. symptoms include fatigue, appetite loss, stomach pain and bleeding or bruising. blood clots that can lead to death have occurred. tell your doctor if you have pain or swelling in your arms or legs, shortness of breath, chest pain, and rapid breathing or heart rate, or if you're nursing, pregnant or plan to be. every day matters. and i want more of them. ask your doctor about everyday verzenio. 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[ding] e*trade now from morgan stanley. >> reporter: it is unusual for vladimir putin's forces to strike this far west into ukraine. lviv has been a place of relative safety throughout the conflict. refugees, displaced people have been coming from the east here by train and then either seeking refuge here or moving further on into europe. this is putin's way of signaling nowhere in ukraine is out of range. >> hi again. that's 5:00 in new york. that was ralph sanchez in ukraine. his report says that city had become a destination or a safe stopping point on the journey for ukrainians to seek refuge. that attack comes as the russian defense ministry said it struck 300 targets overnight including fuel depots, warehouses and other infrastructure. most of the strikes russia claimed were in eastern ukraine. in the last hour president zelenskyy said that the battle for the donbas region is officially under way. something we heard from his former adviser in the last hour. mariupol, extreme courage is on full display as ukrainians rejected an ultimatum posed by the russians to stop fighting. a spokesman for ukraine said troops were able to hold on in areas where russian forces are actively trying to advance. we're unable to get a full picture of the horrors in mariupol. new drone footage shows civilians digging mass graves in irpin. reporting in the "new york times" shows the atrocities peopling committed are deeply rooted in russian military culture. civilia deaths and war crimes committed by solders figure into every war. in russia such acts are rarely investigated or acknowledged or punished. that leaves it unclear how much the level of brutality stems from the intent of those in charge or whether commanders failed to control their troops. combined with the strategy of bombing civilian targets, the russian government and perhaps a part of russian society in reality condones violence against civilians. it's the disregard for human life that joe biden has renounced repeatedly, unafraid to call out vladimir putin in his conduct. >> i called it genocide. it's clear putin is drying to wipe out the idea of being a ukrainian. the evidence is mounting. the truth of the matter is you saw what happened. he is a war criminal. for god's sake this man cannot remain in power. >> we start the hour with frank figulusi, myles taylor and rick stengel is just back from poland. frank, i want to read this to you. this is more from that great piece of reporting in the new york crimes. the crimes in ukraine may also stem from the kremlin's years of dehumanizing propaganda against ukraine. they must sit through informational television programs from 9:00 to 9:40 p.m. every day but sunday. the message that they're stopping nazis is being spread throughout the military. they are pumped full of lies and disinformation about the war in ukraine, but that does not explain, at least to my brain, the atrocities being carried out, the rapes, the slaughter of bound civilians. what is happening? what is the russian military strategy in ukraine? >> reporter: we're watching the fruits of authoritarianism at their most rotten. this is what is bred when you have a culture that never acknowledges the sanctity of human life and decides that, as a strategy, they're going to slaughter innocents. they're going to take civilian lives, not by accident, but deliberately, hoping to instill fear in the ukrainians and demoralizing the ukrainians. also, as you said, nicolle, they're literally programming their own people to see ukrainians as evil, the evil other. throughout history we talked about this before, even on the domestic front, nicolle, when we see another group as evil, when they're dehumanized, when they become the infidel it's okay to slaughter them. they're something less than human. putin has made it okay to slaughter ukrainians, to use a strategy of attacking innocents as a war strategy. i'm here to tell you -- i do not believe it's overdramatizing that this is not unique to russia. this is across the board dictatorship cultures and regimes. we've seen glimpse of that at home in strategies to separate parents from children, as a strategy, not as a bureaucratic snafu, but as a strategy to do cruel things to people who are different than us. this is what we're seeing at the worst here in ukraine, but be careful, because it's true to all authoritarian regime. >> the horrors of that policy -- i understand the link you're making. it was a policy. it wasn't something that hidden cameras caught as an accident of overcrowding. it was the trump administration's policy. i want to follow up with something that you said with some sound from the wife of a jailed putin critic about how what you just described has gotten worse over the last two months. this is eugenie karamursa. >> well, you are absolutely right in saying that we should not trust opinion polls conducted in a total state. this is what russia has become under vladimir putin. people, yes, they're afraid to speak out. >> we spend so much time, i think, trying not to delude ourselves and understand how much support there is for putin and his war in ukraine. can you flush out her point from an authoritarian state to a totalitarian state. >> the opaqueness comes from the lack of truth and fresh air to the russian people. yes, poland will show support for putin. they're being programmed to think of ukrainians as evil. when you control the media and input of information, you develop a common enemy as an infidel, you poison people at will -- this should surprise no one who studied putin. he looked up about 150 fsb officers because he thinks they're leaking information. maybe some are, but he's putting down people -- the next reports we're going to get are executions of his own people. he's done that before as well. tortured family members of people he thinks are not loyal to him. yes, we have switched to a totalitarian state. one thought. of course this is is going to reflect my background in intelligence and national security. we also switched to a terrorist state. couple days ago the russian post reported that president zelenskyy asked biden to consider naming russia a state sponsor of terrorism. i looked at all the definitions. i looked at the states we have on the list right now. someone needs to tell me why we should not put russia on that list. i know the state department refers that to a nuclear option because it means penalizing the remaining countries that do business with russia. it's going to be a tough call diplomatically. they are a state sponsor of terrorism. he's attacking a civilian population for the intention of coercing a political objective. that is terrorism by definition. he's doing it and biden should seriously consider adding russia to the state sponsor terrorism. >> i want to follow up with you on that, frank. then i want to bring myles into the conversation. what is equally interesting to me is when president zelenskyy first described putin's conduct in his country as war crimes, it took -- we looked this up -- nine or ten days for president biden to see it the same way. i'm not suggesting that zelenskyy is leading biden, but sharing information, sharing evidence, maybe there's something we're not seeing. it was about ten days. this was the first week or two of the war. there were fewer days between president zelenskyy describing what was happening in his country as genocide and president biden describing what's happening in ukraine based on everything he's seen as a genocide. this call was less public. it was a request that president zelenskyy made to the white house. you have to assume that the kind of evidence that you looked at, that some of the information was shared to make the point you made. if you put international politics and the history of the war on terror aside, explain to me how the definition has been met for putin's war in ukraine, that it is state sponsored terrorism. >> that's for me, nicolle. >> yes, frank. >> look, it meets our legal definition. it's quite clear for international terrorism. he's -- as we talked about it's a deliberate policy to attack a civilian population of government with a political objective. that's what he's doing. why would we do it now? we've already sanctioned him all the ways we can. no we have not. a state sponsor of terrorism would allow us to freeze russia's assets in the united states. we would penalize the countries doing business with russia. he would go down in history as a terrorist. >> myles, when you talk to the former adviser to zelenskyy, a guest on this program, there's a sense the sanction structure while unprecedented and while a tribute to president biden's ability to get the nato ally to do things they haven't done in a long time, what comes up short is that the slaughter of civilians in bucha was sponsored in part by the international community that has remaining contact into russia's economy. what is your sense of the atrocities becoming more public in bucha and what we know we don't know in mariupol and the question about russia being a state sponsor of terror? >> we're going to have to do a serious reckoning here, nicolle. that was captured by a man they call biden's shadow secretary of state, that's chris coons. he said he thought there needed to be a conversation about when u.s. troops get involved. the senator was clear to say i don't mean combat troops that will get us into a shooting war. he was trying to say we're reaching a level of atrocities where we need to have a serious discussion as a country about what further steps we're willing to take. it's important for us to not signal what those lines are because we need to deter the russians from going further by suggesting there's strategic uncertainty about what we might do next. chris coons comments are significant because he thinks sanctions may not be enough. i think what president biden has done with sanctions is truly extraordinary. it's a major step. now you're seeing a further step may need to be taken. i want to use a quote from chris coons. he said putin will not stop unless we stop him. now, in my opinion, he might as well have been speaking for joe biden. they share a similar world view. how do we stop him? it's going to be a deeper level of involvement. there are folks that say this is not our war to fight. the war in ukraine is not a local war. it's a global war. the russian federation government committed the digital equivalent of 9/11 by intervening in our elections. this doesn't stop in lviv. this is a global war that they're taking against the west and we have to look at the big picture and consider our involvement. i want to add one last thing, nicolle. you and frank made this point. another reason it doesn't stop here is that those authoritarians will influence people like trump and people that come after donald trump. when i came out against trump, i said the cruelty was the point inside the administration. you're seeing that with vladimir putin. the brutality is the point, the intimidation works. if that's seen as successful by authoritarians as far west here at home, people will try to replicate that behavior. that's why we should be worried. >> myles, i think what ukrainians worry about is the -- i won't describe trump as the ascendent. marine le pen is. talk about what ukrainians consider putin's stooges around the world. >> this doesn't just stop in russia and ukraine. you hit the nail on the head. we're seeing authoritarianism spread globally. it's going viral. what we witnessed in ukraine is not a local phenomenon. it's emblematic of something happening around the world. we're seeing far right extremists be able to mobilize, connect online and motivate movement. we saw a number countries rise up during the arab spring. the same forces that allowed the arab spring to occur are allowing an authoritarian spring to occur. barack obama used to quote martin luther king jr. and say the arc of history bends towards justice. the arc of history doesn't just bend itself. it has to be bent. the lie we've been telling ourselves is that the world would become democratic and free and fair and safe. that's not the case. we have to project power to protect our country. that's what you're seeing the biden administration being forced into, a historic moment where they're having to map out a global strategy to push back against authoritarianism and it has ramifications here at home. this is a worldwide phenomenon. >> one of the mysteries that we hear is that we all view our democracy as precious. this is not true, at least we're not defining it as the same thing if you believe the hallmark of that democracy is the free and fair transfer of power. a republican president's hand picked chief of election security says it's the most secure election in american history, that that would bring along a chunk of the republican electors. it has not. 73% of republicans don't think that joe biden is the legitimate president of our country. as we engage -- i want your thoughts on senator chris coons. as we engage on the world stage, this president has a nearly unprecedented task of having to shore up the strength of our democracy at the same time. >> yes. it's a big issue. the parallel to what you're saying to what americans believe about the election is us questioning why the russians believe what vladimir putin says. he has an 80% approval rate. >> how can they believe they're de-nazifying ukraine? how do so many americans believe donald trump won in 2020? >> it's been going on for 15 or 20 years, measuring countries advancing towards democracy or retreating. i agree it's a global war. ukraine for putin is the frontline of the west. what he fears is not ukrainian joining nato. what he fears is a democratic ukraine moving towards the west, the free speech and voting we have here. that's the battle. that's why he's so desperate to win. that's why he's so dangerous. >> that's why he's throwing every brutal tactic -- >> i was in poland. i know we'll talk about it later. strolling around warsaw in the old town i came across a monument to the massacre in 1941 where russian troops who invaded poland with the nazis, in concert with the nazis. not only putin's lies -- russia was an ally with the nazis. there's a monument in downtown to the massacre where 20,000 polish military leaders, civilians were massacred. it's one of the most brutal war crimes of world war ii. it's a feature of russian militarism. >> we're watching it play out with modern technology. frank and myles, thank you for your contributions every day, but especially today. really important conversation. i'm grateful. when we come back, the state department spokesman ned price is our guest as the biden administration considering the steps it can take to counter the escalation of russia's atrocities, including whether they should be added to the states sponsoring terrorism. next, this protest we have showed you. this protester says it was to make life difficult for russians living in d.c., and he's not stopping. 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(sigh) on tonal. ♪♪ as a business owner, your bottom line is always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network. with no line activation fees or term contracts... saving you up to $500 a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities.™ this is xfinity rewards. our way of saying thanks, with rewards for the whole family! from epic trips... to the original jurassic park... on us. join over 3 million members and start enjoying rewards like these, and so much more in the xfinity app! and don't miss jurassic world: dominion in theaters june 10th. seven weeks into the russian war in ukraine, president zelenskyy says he thinks president joe biden will visit his country at some point. it comes after reports that the biden administration is weighing sending a u.s. official to ukraine. the white house continues up to this hour to dismiss any notion of sending president biden given the dangers there. ned price is joining us. ned, do you have anything to update on -- actually i'm not going to waste a question with you. i imagine because of security concerns you wouldn't tell us. let me move on. >> you've done this yourself, nicolle. >> a frequent guest on this program made a forceful case for the technical standard of state sponsor of terrorism being met of russia atrocities, something you described as one of the ways that the president and the administration has rallied such a quick set of sanctions from the global community. i wonder if there's a debate under way as to whether or not to designate russia and vladimir putin as state sponsors of terrorism. >> nicolle, you eluded to this. we've organized a campaign involving dozens of countries across four continents imposing unprecedented costs on russia in response to its illegal war against the country of ukraine, the people of ukraine and in response to the atrocities we've seen. we pulled and will pull every lever that is appropriate and effective. you've already seen us enact and use a number of authorities to do just that. when it comes to the state sponsor of terrorism it's defined by statute. congress has written into law the criteria under which a state would qualify as a state sponsor of terrorism. our task is to take a close look at the facts, take a look at the law and whether it's this authority or any other authority to determine if that measure was appropriate as defined by statute and effective. there's a practical element to this as well. the state sponsor of terrorism imposes a number of restrictions of a country when it comes to all of those. we've already taken those with our international assistance and foreign aid. the practical effect of this may not be more than what meets the name. >> i'm trying to understand. i feel like you're saying that you believe vladimir putin is engaged in conduct that meets the standards and the definition of terrorism, but what you're saying is the sanctions in place is more practical. if i've got that wrong, correct me. >> the sanctions we have in place have taken the steps that would be entailed by the designation of a state sponsor of terrorism. of course we made the point that as long as russia, as long as the kremlin continues to escalate in ukraine, as long as its tactics continue to escalate, we'll escalate our sanctions that have taken a bite out of russia's economy. we'll take a close look at all potential authorities. this is one of them. it's one that's also defined by congress. we'll look at that definition. we'll look at what is happening and if it's appropriate and effective we won't hesitate to pull those levers. >> speaking of congress, much has also been made already about one of the president's closest friends in the u.s. senate, senator chris coons who said this yesterday -- i deeply respect president biden's leadership imposing crushing sanctions on russia and bringing to this fight countries that stay on the sidelines before. this is a critical moment. vladimir putin has shown us how brutal he can be. if he's allowed to continue to massacre civilians i deeply worry we'll see ukraine turn into syria. i'm guessing there's a relationship there that those thoughts have been shared privately. is there a conversation under way of what more looks like, if we decide we have to do more? >> we appreciate hearing from senator coons. he takes a keen interest in foreign policy. he has close relationships with the secretary in this building and the president too. there are two elements of our strategy. the first is to continue to provide security assistance to our ukrainian partners. we provided more than $2.5 billion since the start of the russian invasion. it's empowering our ukrainian partners to defend their country and defend their rights at the battlefield. at the same time the second pillar is to continue to do what i mentioned a moment ago. that is to impose costs on the kremlin through additional sanctions, through additional export control measures, through other steps. as we empower ukraine, we're seeking to hold russia back tactically and strategically. the president believes we need to do everything we can to see to it that this conflict does not expand any further and we bring this conflict to a close as quickly as we can. introducing u.s. service members, introducing u.s. assets into direct hostilities is not something this president is seeking to do. rather than to bring this conflict to a close, it would do the opposite. >> rick? >> hi, ned. good to see you. as nicolle mentioned, i just got back from poland visiting ukrainian refugees with c.a.r.e. there are 2.5 million ukrainian refugees in poland. that's 5% of the population. you mentioned syria as an analogy. i would argue what putin did in syria was weaponize refugees to get them to go to germany and other countries to destabilize them. i feel that's what he's doing to poland. is there a plan to support those countries to host those refugees, to care for them, to give them the social support they need because they really do need it? >> well, there are absolutely is. there is because you look at the toll of this conflict on the people of ukraine. more than 4 million refugees, more than 6 million internally displaced persons, ukrainians still in ukraine who have been forced to leave their homes. add those two elements together. more than a quarter of ukraine's population of 44 million has been forced to flee their homes, more than half of ukraine's children. you look at the scale. you look at the toll. you look at the cost and the pain. you see why we've stepped up. the united states is supporting those regions who have opened their doors and neighborhood neighborhoods to the people of ukraine. president biden has committed up to $1 billion in humanitarian assistance to help those in the region, to help those who have been forced to flee this conflict. we worked with congress who appropriated more than $10 billion for additional security assistance, but also humanitarian assistance. we will be in a position to provide billions of dollars worth of humanitarian support to those countries in the region. we announced that the united states will be opening our doors to 100,000 individuals who have been forced to flee their homes because of this conflict. we understand that many in ukraine have been forced to flee the country and wish to stay close to ukraine. in many cases they left behind brothers, sons, husbands who are fighting for their country. many of them want to return to their country as soon as it is safe. many of them won't want to come to a place like the united states. we'll see to it there are pathways for ukrainians and others who have been forced to flee their homes because of this conflict should they require a settlement in a country like the united states. >> ned, you were a private citizen when this happened. i wonder what you think when you see kevin mccarthy criticize the biden administration for not getting military assistance to ukraine quickly enough when we know that kevin mccarthy had no problems when donald trump held up military assistance for ukraine which was at the time in a hot war in the donbas? >> one of the virtues of my job is i don't need to and i can't get involved in politics. i appreciate that. what i will say is that this administration started to provide security assistance to our ukrainian partners long before vladimir putin went into ukraine. as you know, it was in the summer when president zelenskyy was here, when he was standing with president biden. president biden met with president zelenskyy. their foreign minister have been in this building. we provided hundreds of millions of dollars of security assistance to our ukrainian partners before vladimir putin's forces went into ukraine. since then president biden made clear that as long as this war of choice, as long as putin's aggression continues against the people of ukraine, we'll provide more to see to it our ukrainian partners have precisely what they need to defend their country. >> ned price, thank you for spending some of your time with us. we're grateful. when we come back, ben wittis who organized last week's light show at the russian embassy in washington, d.c., explains why he wants to make life for russian diplomats as difficult as possible. you know, the stevensons told me they saved money bundling their boat insurance with progressive. no one knows who those people are. -it can be painful. -hand me your coats. there's an extra seat right here. no, no, no, no, no. we don't need a coat wrangler. progressive can't save you from becoming your parents, but we can save you money when you bundle home, auto, and more with us. no one who made the movie is here. better hearing wleads to a better life.to, and more with us. and that better life... ...starts at miracle-ear. it all begins with the most innovative technology... ...like the new miracle-earmini™. available exclusively at miracle-ear. so small, no one will see it. but you'll notice the difference. and now, miracle-ear is offering a 30-day risk-free trial. you can experience better hearing with no obligation. call 1-800-miracle right now and experience a better life. never be afraid of your strength, because your body is capable of amazing things. own your strength, and see how far it takes you. tonal. be your strongest. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from own your strength, and see how far it takes you. overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. 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[ding] e*trade now from morgan stanley. it is entirely nonviolent, it does not threaten anybody's personal safety, or cost a nickel in actual damages to anybody. like any good protest the special military operation being led by benjamin wittis is intended to be invasive and obnoxious to russian diplomats living in the u.s. some gardening, planting sun flowers just to make a point. it's a four-hour game of cat and mouse. they projected an image of the ukrainian flag on the embassy's exterior. russians tried to cover it up with a spotlight, perhaps something the late congressman might consider good trouble. joining us now is benjamin. i would ask you what you have up your sleeve, but first tell me have there been any ramifications from what you've done so far. >> we were surprised the russians tried to drive out our spotlight operation with a spotlight of their own. i suppose that's a ramification. otherwise there's been nothing but positive reaction. we had no interference from the secret service who were extremely helpful and cooperative in just making sure we knew where the lines were and we tried to respect them. when we did the planting a few days later, the staff of the ukrainian embassy, including the ambassador, showed up to plant with us. a lot of the neighbors participated and people came in from all over the place to help us. it's been, you know, in the midst of a very dark time, we thought it would add some light and add a little bit of good fun as a way to draw attention to what is going on in this building and what the people in it are speaking on behalf of. >> i wonder if you can talk about how and whether the war has changed -- i mean, washington, if you don't live there, it's odd to explain to people that in this area there are all sorts of embassies. obviously our country ends up in tense situations all the time. this feels different. this is a war in ukraine, our ally, from a country that's attacked our elections in 2016 and 2020. has it changed washington? >> so it certainly changed this neighborhood and i -- i'm glad you asked that question. i think it goes to one of the animating spirit aspects of the protest. you know, for those of us who live in washington in this part of northwest washington this embassy compound is part of our neighborhood. a lot of embassies are a part of our neighborhood. we live peacefully with them. we don't -- sometimes they're countries whose politics we like. sometimes they're countries whose politics we don't like. i don't usually feel venom towards an embassy. here, this is an embassy compound who the people who work inside it are speaking on behalf of a regime engaged in the most flagrant violations of the laws of war, of genocide and plain old fashion murder of civilians. every one of the people in this building have a choice. they could walk out and say i can't do this anymore and defect. i do feel like, you know, there's a sacred obligation on the part of the united states to protect the embassy. i believe in that. i would never try to attack the embassy. i would never try to do anything that would disrespect the international obligation to protect diplomatic properties, but i don't think we have an obligation to make the people in it feel comfortable or welcome in our neighborhood that we have to live in. if you can imagine, there are people who live literally across the street from that facility. they all planted sun flowers and some of them were doing it before we showed up. one of them has their whole wall in front of their house painted blue and yellow. i don't think anybody in the neighborhood, you know, wants to make this facility, the people in it feel comfortable. we wanted to do something that was as invasive and obnoxious and we wanted to invade the embassy without invading the embassy. so, light was the way to do that. >> i know enough to know you're not going to give away your next move. we'll be watching. ben, thank you for spending time. >> there will be more, nicolle. you're a great american. good to see your face. >> thank you. rick is staying with us to tell us what he saw on his trip to poland. quick break and we'll be back with that. ♪("i've been everywhere" by johnny cash) ♪ ♪i've traveled every road in this here land!♪ ♪i've been everywhere, man.♪ ♪i've been everywhere, man.♪ ♪of travel i've had my share, man.♪ ♪i've been everywhere.♪ ♪♪ [sound of helicopter blades] ♪i've been everywhere.♪ ugh... they found me. ♪ ♪ nice suits, you guys blend right in. the world needs you back. i'm retired greg, you know this. people have their money just sitting around doing nothing... that's bad, they shouldn't do that. they're getting crushed by inflation. well, i feel for them. they're taking financial advice from memes. 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(sigh) on tonal. ♪♪ ♪ ♪ bonnie boon i'm calling you out. everybody be cool, alright? we've got bonnie right here on a video call. we don't take kindly to video calls. oh, in that case just tap to send a message. we don't take kindly to messages neither. in that case how 'bout a ringcentral phone call. we don't take kindly to no... would you can it eugene! let's just hear her out. ha ha ha, i've been needing a new horse. we've got ourselves a deal. ♪ ♪ ♪ ringcentral ♪ this is not the stallion i was imagining. rick, you're just back from poland. >> i want to poland with c.a.r.e. they started with a refugee problem in europe. there are about 5 million ukrainian refugees, 2.5 in poland. poland has been incredibly welcoming. they've been taken in by polish families in their home. all women and children, small children, lots of dogs none of whom were barking because they were scared. >> heart breaking. >> it was a little heart breaking. that's the scene. the children are oblivious. there needs to be an international global effort to support these refugees. part of putin's plan is to have these refugees destabilize the border of ukraine. nato down theories on the border of ukraine. i mean, we will need to have a marshal plan for ukraine. but there will also need to be some for outside. there is also wonderful programs. we visited this old soviet building where they are hiring ukrainian women to be teachers in polish schools to look after the ukrainian kids that are in the schools and that don't spaeng polish and so they have been speg rated into that polish system. so these are things americans can do also to help refugeesisms. >> what to people do? what do americans do who want to help? >> well, they can support an organization like care. which has special ukrainian effort to -- to help refugees and help people in ukraine. there are lots of other international organizations, doctors without borders, save the children, et cetera, that are kind of ganging up to do this because this is a gigantic need. not since world war ii, haveby seen this many refugees in europe ask they are all damaged. >> trauma. >> this second wave is older, poorer, more fragile than the first wave. they are coming from the east where sthef opinion bombed. we saw a bus from car keechb where everybody's caped from kind of bombing. they talked about how houses had been destroyed and their husbands and brothers and targets remained there to fight. >> unbelievable. did you come pack with any new insights in how we talk about haas happening there? >> well, you know, you know how frustrating this all is. i think we, as journ ints, have to start talking about it in a different way. i think russia should be declared a state sponsor of terrorism. what is happen inning mariupol. there is no victory there. it is a kargt ginnian peace where they created a stert and called it a peace. he is destroying the lives of people. it is a war crime. it is an act of terrorism. we have to talk about that and you have. >> i am so glad you're here. so glad you stayed for the hour. thank you so much for being here with me. quick break for us. we'll be right back. the food dogs where built to eat. the farmer's dog is changing the way we feed our pets. visit tryfarmersdog.com to see your dogs personalized meal plan. growing up in a little red house, visit tryfarmersdog.com on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort. important i am date as we watch capitol hill for the latest developments in the january 6th select committee investigation. one kim birly guilfoyle was caught arriving this morning for her closed testimony. she was seened by the commit degree last month over her role in organizing and raising funds for the rally that took place just ahead of the january-6th insurrection. we are watching for updates on her testimony. we will bring you the latest as soon as we have it. quick break for us. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. ♪ ♪ when you order the all new deluxe three cheese and bacon omelette, you get a smile on your plate. only from ihop. join the rewards program and earn double pancoins with any omelette purchase. >> tech: need to get your windshield fixed? 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"the beat" starts now. >> i am ari melber and we are tracking several stories include obama, eric holder, top lawyer in the obama administration is calling out mike lee saying he must be held accountable for engaging with that coup plot amidst all the new texts leaking out. speaking this way about an active politician. that is a story that broke into the weekend and we are going to stay on it for you. we also special a have report on trump and the maga money. plus, new video of romger stone trashing the one-time mini trump ron desantis. this is a big political story with implications and later this hour, he go beyond some of the usual news to get into something i have talked to you about before, which is there accountability for political lies? defamation? attacking innocent people? there is free speech but that doesn't mean the right to lie in way that is incite silence or defame people and alex jones ask his right-wing conspiracy