Transcripts For MSNBC The Katie Phang Show 20240708

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and the republican war on abortion is ramping up. florida now the late toast sign a restrictive abortion bill as the gop looks to rally its base, but i want to know, how far is too far for voters? we'll tackle that and so much more coming up next. ♪♪ good saturday morning to you. i'm katie phang. the first question i'm asking this morning, can any country be prepared for what vladimir putin might do if he's backed into a corner with nowhere to go? the russian president suffered a massive humiliation this week when the flagship of its black sea fleet sank to the bottom. russia claims it was due to an explosion of ammunition on board but yesterday united states officials confirmed the ukrainians sunk the ship with two neptune missiles. a very public and historic failure for the russian navy, and another military defeat that putin likely never thought possible. it comes as president biden is ratcheting up u.s. military support for ukraine, but the kremlin certainly took notice sending an official diplomatic note warning the white house to back off. and speaking of developments, vladimir putin isn't happy about finland and sweden are closer to joining nato. no one can be certain how putin will react. russia has threatened cyber and other conventional military attacks on finland and cia director william burns says putin could use tactical nuclear weapons if he gets desperate. ukraine police say the bodies of 900 civilians have been discovered in the kyiv region after russian forces pulled out. one police leader says those people were "simply executed." this has prompted a new wave of war crimes accusations and there are reports of bombing in kyiv just this morning after russia threatened to do just that. then there's this disturbing claim, ukraine intercepted a russian soldier talking to his wife back home. she was worried about an attack on a town near the russian border which russia blamed on ukraine, but during this call, her husband said it was actually russia who bombed the town, which if true means russia is bombing its own people and blaming ukraine for it. putin continues to lose face, it's not clear what he might do if he feels failure in ukraine is imminent, but this could all be the terrifying first look. so let's begin this morning with the latest on the ground in ukraine, here's raf sanchez. >> ukraine waking up to news kyiv is once again under attack for the second time in 48 hours. russian missiles hitting the outskirts of the capital, according to the mayor. there's no word yet on casualties but this has shattered the sense of calm kyiv has been enjoying the last two weeks after russian forces encircling the city. last weekend it was peaceful enough for british prime minister boris johnson to meet president zelenskyy face to face. the russian defense ministry says these strikes in kyiv are in retaliation to what it says were ukrainian attacks carried out inside of russian territory. ukraine's government is not responding to those claims but i'll tell you, a lot of people here suspect what this is actually about is vladimir putin retaliating for the sinking of the moskva, the black sea flagship that went down a couple of days ago. the u.s. confirming ukraine did hit that ship with ten knew anti-sea missiles, the russians not giving any cause for the fire that caused that ship to sink nor are they saying how many russian servicemembers were lost in the explosion and subsequent sinking. now the missile bombardment continues all across ukraine, as this country braces for putin's expected onslaught in the south and in the east. seven people were killed by a missile in kharkiv yesterday and overnight, the governor of lviv saying there were strikes here. it is very unusual for there to be missile attacks this far west. we were woken up at 5:00 a.m. this morning by the sound of the air raid sirens. it is a reminder nowhere out of russia's reach if you're in ukraine. the january 6th committee reportedly got its hands on revealing new text messages between two republican lawmakers and then white house chief of staff mark meadows. in the weeks between the 2020 election and the insurrection, texas congressman chip roy and utah senator mike lee a supposed die-hard defender of the united states constitution, well they appeared eager to fight along onside tmp tmp's claim of a stolen election. they backed off when they realized there wasn't a shred of evidence to support trump's big lie. allie raffa is on capitol hill with the details. nbc news has not yet seen the texts and the committee said it's not commenting. what can you tell us about what you're hearing in washington? >> reporter: yes, katie, senator lee and congressman roy really started out as some of the former president's biggest defenders in his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. the almost 100 texts between the two of them and mark meadows, it's shedding light on how genuinely invested these two were in overturning the election results. one of these text messages between senator lee and mark meadows reads "we offer our unequivocal support for you to exhaust every legal and constitutional recommend at this at your disposal to restore americans' faith in our elections. "another from roy to meadows says "we need ammo. we need fraud examples. we need it this weekend." katie, i should mention lee and roy both expressed frankly their disgust with what happened on january 6th, at tack on the capitol and both broke with the majority of republicans in voting to certify president biden's election results, but these texts really just show how invested, how they genuinely believed that the election was rigged, katie. >> but allie, both lawmakers eventually got to the point where they realized there was no evidence to stand on to support this claim of a stolen election, but it seems like they signed on first and then asked the questions later. was there something going on that made them change their tune other than the fact there was no evidence provided to them upon them asking? >> reporter: you can definitely see a shift in the rhetoric between the election and january 6th, specifically in some texts, senator lee was initially invested and believed in what we now know to be the fake elector plot, but after he noticed that no states officially convened to confirm these electors, he expressed some hesitancy in one text "i really think this could all backfire badly unless we have legislatures submitting trump slates." congress wan roy's case, he become more skeptical, he urges meadows not to create cone speary theory and says december 31st the president should call everyone off. if potus allows this to occur we are driving a stake in the heart of the federal republic. the mood of these messages becomes more dire and concerned leading up to january 6th. >> allie raffa, thank you for giving us the latest on that development in washington, d.c. that's the latest on that, but i want to know, could these revelations help build the case against donald trump? coming up, i'm going to ask msnbc legal analyst joyce advance and molly john fast from "the atlantic." next to florida where the republican war on abortion is in full effect. governor ron desantis signing a bill that bans abortions within 15 weeks without exception for rape, insist or human trafficking. joining us now more on this is nbc news correspondent stephanie stanton. stephanie, thanks for joining us this morning. when does this new law take effect and who is going to be the most impacted by it? >> reporter: good morning, katie, the new law takes effect july 1st, bans abortions after 15 weeks. abortions only permitted in the case of a mother's health being at risk, her life being in danger, i should say and also in the case of fatal fetal abnormalities. currently, you can get an abortion here in the state of florida up to 24 weeks. i am here outside planned parenthood in the tampa area, one of three clinics in this area, more than a dozen here in the state and officials with planned parenthood say that they are looking into ways to fight this. they are looking into potential legal challenges, but they say for now, it will be business as usual. they will continue to provide what they say are very necessary services for women and that includes, katie, abortion. now, as you said, this state of florida here is just a very small piece of this overall puzzle of many red states that are looking to essentially ban abortion. >> stephanie, your point is well-taken. florida's new law comes as we've seen attacks on abortion rights in so many gop-led states. we have to wait and see whether or not any legal challenges are actually going to take place. but stephanie, this isn't the only controversial move desantis made this week. we'll be looking into that later on but we appreciate you taking the time this morning to join us. >> reporter: sure, thank you. so stephanie stanton just joined us to talk about one of the moves that desantis made this week but the other one is he also took over congressional redistricting in the state of florida. so we're going to be getting into that later on in the show, plus for russians, the flagship maskva represented power and hope and then it sunk. could it symbolize something bigger? i'll ask john hertz about what this could mark a major turning point in the war. that's next. dara brown has more top stories you might have missed. >> thank you, katie. this morning, a wildfire is forcing people in colorado out of their homes. you can see smoke and flames erupting from this area about 25 miles north of boulder. crews began working to put out the fire in the middle of 30-mile-per-hour winds. officials are trying to figure out what started the fire. protests continue in grand rapids, michigan, calling for justice for 26-year-old patrick lyoya, a black man, was shot in the head by a white police officer during a traffic stop. police released a 20-minute video showing the interaction. his family and the community now demanding the officer be identified. the investigation is being reviewed by multiple law enforcement agencies. and dozens are injured after clashes erupted at a jerusalem holy site friday. israeli officials entered the al aksa as thousands gathered for ramadan. israel says its forces entered the mosque to remove rocks gathered in anticipation of violence. hey businesses! you all deserve something epic! so we're giving every business, our best deals on every iphone - including the iphone 13 pro with 5g. that's the one with the amazing camera? 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(laughs) flexible cancellation. kayak. search one and done. right now, russia is facing new war crime accusations after ukraine said it found the bodies of 900 civilians near kyiv. most had been shot dead execution style. after more threats of bombing in the city, ukrainian officials reported just that this morning. each day ukraine and the whole world are considering what vladimir putin could do if he feels like he's facing the ultimate failure. one of the reasons putin could feel that way, the united states says that ukraine just sunk russia's flagship in the black sea. people there are mourning the loss of that warship, dozens are gathering in crimea for a memorial service hugging and laying flowers for the ship. in a new op-ed, russia keeps losing wars because of its dysfunctional military culture which he says can be traced as far back as the 1850s when they lost the crimean war. the military's deficiencies include corruption, low morale and lack of coordination between units and it's not going to be fixed any time soon. is he right and with the latest warship humiliation, what might putin do next? jen herbst, former united states ambassador to ukraine during the george w. bush administration. thank you for being here this morning. it's surprising to me that russia had little protection for one of the crowned jewels of its navy fleet the "moskva." is the sinking having a more symbolic impact in your opinion or a militarily strategic impact? >> it has an important symbolic meaning, because it's a huge, huge, visible defeat, and just like the defeat of the rush arms around kyiv, and northern ukraine, it demonstrates their campaign is failing, but it also has strategic significance. the absence of anti-ship missiles in ukraine enable russian warships to take easily the city of berdosk in the city of oslov and pound the large port odesa in the black sea. it means future russian ships will not be able to operate close in a new offensive against odesa and that's very important. >> is max bout right in his op-ed about russia's dysfunctional military? regardless of that dysfunction, russia is known for its military ground superiority in terms of tanks, artillery and frankly sheer size. doesn't that keep russia a serious threat to ukraine or the fact this might be a prolonged war going to spell eventual disaster and defeat for russia? >> i think if we pursue strong policies of more military support for ukraine, russia will lose in ukraine. it has a fearsome military. they did, after all, carry the main battle on land against the nazis in world war ii. we should not dismiss them. they've run poorly for largely the reasons max laid out in that op-ed. >> the -- >> sorry? >> how would you define, ambassador, the additional or more military support that you were just referencing a minute ago? >> look, we sent a new package. we now sent a new package a few days ago which was nice but not nearly enough. we are sending long-range artilleries but only 15 of them. ukraine needs hundreds of them and needs hundreds of multiple launch rocket systems which we refused to provide and the migs and bombers which the u.s. said no to. all of these things are essential when russia masses 100,000 troops with hundreds of tanks, hundreds of planes, hundreds of rocket launchers and massive artillery to try to take the city of kharkiv and odesa. we don't want zelenskyy to have to choose between saving his military and saving civilians from more aatrocities. >> is there a tipping point in your opinion based upon your experience and knowledge, which is deep of what's going on in russia, are we at that tipping point maybe it's got to be more than just aid in terms of packages of money and maybe we actually have to get involved and actually have american boots on the ground there? >> i don't think american troops need to intervene. i think what we need is to give ukraine everything they're asking for. zelenskyy said the other day he feels like he's in the movie "groundhog day" because westerners keep asking what weapons we needs and he's been telling them for months. we need more are atill lear, rocket launchers, planes as well as more long distance, we need to send long distance drones we refuse to send, all help zelenskyy defend his people from russian atrocities and defeat moscow in ukraine which is good for us, because if moscow wins in ukraine, they'll be coming for our baltic nato allies. >> which is exactly the idea, right, making sure we shore up ukraine so that the russian aggression doesn't expand any further. former united states ambassador to ukraine bill herbst thank you for being with us this morning. coming up, if you want to win, you have to lie, that appears to be the gop's m.o. going into the midterms. according to a whole bunch of recently released republican campaign ads, one of the people pointing this out is the former president's niece, mary trump. i had a fascinating conversation with her and she didn't hold back. that's next. to severe plaque . now, there's skyrizi. with skyrizi 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months, after just 2 doses. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms such as fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or coughs, or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. ♪ nothing is everything ♪ talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ [♪♪] ♪♪ if you have diabetes, it's important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. try boost glucose control®. it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today. we gotta tell people that liberty mutual customizes car insurance so you only pay for what you need, and we gotta do it fast. 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"trump believed he knew why conservative voters lacked enthusiasm for perdue and loeffler. he explaineds much to mitch mcconnell. brian kemp, the governor, defended the election as safe and secure even though biden won his state by a small margin. voters would not stand for this, trump believed, and neither should perdue and loeffler." trump's strategy in the georgia runoff was to continue to say the election was rigged but we know how that worked out for him in georgia. right now, though, right ahead of the primaries and the midterms, you've got plenty of republican candidates fully embracing election lies. do you think that's going to backfire for them? >> i don't, actually. what we see time and time again is donald floats a trial balloon and see what happens. in georgia it didn't work but that's because at the time, it seemed so outrageous. now, however, republicans are seeing their opportunity. this may be one of their last chances to grab power, because that's all they're interested in, maintaining power no matter what cost and no matter how illegitimately. we're in a situation a year later, where in order to be a viable republican candidate, you have to pretend that you believe the 2020 election was stolen from president biden. >> how does that work, though, mary? we talked about as an example leading up to you, senate leader mitch mcconnell, right, trying to have it both ways when it comes to donald trump, still pledging fealty to him, pledging loyalty but at the same time condemning him for january 6th. seems like abject hypocrisy and completely inconsistent, yet he's not the only one who embraces this concept. >> republicans don't care about hypocrisy. i think that's also a requirement in order to be an elected republican official these days, but we also need to remember, though, that before january 6th, mcconnell was aware of the machinations behind the scenes that were being promoted by donald's oldest son, donnie and many others. the mainstream media characterizes he did nothing to publicize this treasonous behavior. he was considered strategic, so to describe somebody as strategic who is perfectly comfortable not saying anything about a potential coup is dangerous because the real word to describe him as traitorous. >> watch my full conversation with mary trump streaming on peacock. every thursday and friday evening if you're able to, tune in to discussions like that with new original episodes of "the katie phang show" on the brand new msnbc on peacock hub. coming up, bombshell new reporting reveals exactly how some gop lawmakers try to keep donald trump in office after his big loss. there are actual text messages and we're going to show them to you, but what will the january 6th committee do with them? i'm going to break it down with my panel next. 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(cto) ♪ i want the world. ♪ ♪ i want the whole world. ♪ (ceo) ♪ i want today. ♪ ♪ i want tomorrow. ♪ (dispatch) ♪ i want it noooooow! ♪ (vo) get 5g that's ready right now. put the phone down. mark meadows at the center of another texting controversy. cnn got a look at 100 messages between him and mike lee and chip roy and shows them encouraging the white house to overturn the 2020 election but it comes on the heels of texts from donald trump, jr., to mark meadows laying out his ideas to keep his father in tower and texts from ginni thomas imploring meadows to do the same. joining me is msnbc legal analyst joyce advance and molly jhong fast of "the atlantic" two of my favorite people especially to start my day. joyce, first off, i have to ask the question i raised at the top of the hour, how big of a deal are these text messages and are they going to help build a case against donald trump? >> so i think those are two separate questions, which is why you pose the question that way, katie. the first part of that question, what can we take away from the texts? the most shocking thing about them is that we see senator lee affirmatively advocating participation in what we can only characterize at this point as an attempted coup. as we get closer to january ofth, we see him doing something we don't see directly from others. we see him acknowledging that what they are doing is wrong. representative roy talks about driving a stake through the heart of the republic and that i think has been something we've not seen directly. the former president doesn't text, doesn't use email, so we don't tend to see these sort of direct statements of what's going on in his mind, but that's to me what is the most compelling about these. obviously the case gets built in two different ways. one is the political lane and the january 6th committee. i think this evidence is compelling and forms a compelling part of the case we're going to hear from them. but the criminal case that doj looks to be building is an entirely different story. i don't think that these folks would even be characterized as subjects, let alone targets at this point unless there's evidence that we just don't see. what's interesting here is what value they might bring to bear as witnesses, and what light they might be able to shed on what was going on inside of the white house. >> so molly, i want to turn to you, because you wrote a piece in "the atlantic" about the trump kids and the title of it is "trump kids are not all right." within it, molly, you reference the fact that done, jr., texted with mark meadows and that was happening literally the days right after the election, right, so it's not just congressional members of the gop. we have trump children that are involved in this. so molly, do you think that this actually creates a situation where don trump, jr., becomes a witness against his father? >> well, i mean, i have a lot of trouble imagining any of the trump kids standing up to their dad or, i mean unless they're set up to take the fall, but i think more likely you get a sort of hearing where you have these people testify or at least you show that they won't show up to testify, right. i mean at this point, a lot of this is about presenting a narrative for the american people, so that they can see what really happened and hopefully you can permeate that sort of media silo enough so americans on both sides of the aisle will see how scary this was and how a lot of republicans elected and otherwise tried to overturn a free and fair election even when the votes were still being counted. >> joyce, i think that the common denominator and i've been harping on this for the last few days once this reporting came out, the common denominator is mark meadows in all of this. i think there's something going on in terms of why the doj hasn't moved forward but there's this drip, drip, drip of messages that all involve mark meadows. why hasn't the doj moved against him yet? >> so we don't know for certain, but there are a couple of options and then there's a wild card. one option is that they've decided not to prosecute. there's an old olc memo folks argued might prohibit prosecution in this area. i think what you're suggesting is the more likely course, doj is trying to sort out his status. he originally cooperated with the january 6th committee, turning over an entire tranche of documents. that's the way we have learned the most interesting information about what was going on inside of the white house. it's possible that doj is trying to decide or to give meadows the opportunity to decide whether he wants to be a witness or whether he wants to be a defendant, and that's a negotiation that can take a little bit of time to work out when you're on the prosecutorial end and katie, the wildcard is this north carolina voting fraud case, where meadows registers to vote at a residence that he has never occupied while he has a house in another state, votes from north carolina, it is a clear instance of voter fraud. he needs to be prosecuted for it, and the reason i say it's a wildcard is it opens up the possibility that some negotiation could be done there, if north carolina prosecutors are willing to cooperate with doj prosecutors that, wouldn't be uncommon to see whether a global deal can be worked out to obtain meadows' testimony in exchange for favorable treatment at sentencing. >> you know, molly, joyce brings up that north carolina issue for mark meadows, and i'd like to know whether or not you agree that it's yet another inditia of hypocrisy. mark meadows went on a rampage, far right-leaning and dead center media, went on this rampage about how there's so much fraud and stolen election and voter fraud that needs to be dealt with and look what he ends up doing. so is there any type of accountability that you think that's going to happen either at the polls or maybe in our judicial system for people like mark meadows? >> the idea every indictment is a confession, right, that all these conservative also say things and ultimately they're doing them themselves. mark meadows is a good example of that. look again, you know, the january 6th committee has this opportunity to present a narrative and to show that while trump world was, you know, saying that democrats were doing voter fraud, and doing a coup, they were trying to do a coup. so yes, there's an opportunity here. again, it's all about narrative. it's all about laying it out for the american people. you know, it doesn't -- if a percentage of the country doesn't see it, then it hasn't happened, right? so you really have to permeate this siloed media and i think the way to do that is to have hearings that are in prime time, that really show everything, that show who doesn't show up, who does show up and what they say, and i think that's your best shot for keeping democracy right now. >> coming up, one man to rule them all, we'll have joyce advance and molly jong-fast stay with us. i want to know, is florida becoming a state of one-man rule? the miami remember alleged nancy ankrim will join our panel and she thinks so, coming up next. t. isn't that right, frank? i saved 25%. booyah. you protected your casa? sure did. and the frank tank? you know it. and now you're relaxing. i'm working from home. sure you are. alright i see a lot of head nods. let's circle back tomorrow. you weren't kidding. save up to 25% when you bundle home and auto with allstate. click or call for a quote today. save up to 25% when you bundle home and auto with allstate. as a main street bank, pnc has helped over 7 million kids develop their passion for learning through our grow up great initiative. and now, we're providing billions of dollars for affordable home lending programs... as part of 88 billion to support underserved communities... including loans for small businesses in low and moderate income areas. so everyone has a chance to move forward financially. pnc bank: see how we can make a difference for you. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire if you want to stay out of jail, you need to go good. matthis is a chance to findon. a better life for you and your friends. help grandma cross the street. yeah. he's gonna blow it. you think i can't do this? 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[ cheers and applause ] just the latest outcome of what i like to call conquistador ron desantis' crusade against civil rights after a new law is signed that bans abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy with no exceptions of rape, incest or human trafficking. he proposed his own congressional map. the new map would carve up a black-held district making room for four more republican-leaning districts following his signing of the controversial don't say gay bill that limits classroom discussions on gender and sexuality prompting a nationwide backlash. seems like we're talking about a controversial move maybe two or three by ron desantis, it's riling up the base, red meat for republicans and he's eyeing a possible 2020 run for the white house. for more we have msnbc legal analyst, columnist for "the atlantic" molly jong-fast and "miami herald" nancy ancrum. power is the word i was about to say. looks like ron desantis is none a one-man crusade to create a one-man ruled state. you wrote what happened to check and balance government designed to stop any one branch from ceding too much control. what happened to our separation of powers. are we on the cusp of a one-man state rule? >> we're pretty much there. the legislature last week abdicated its constitutional responsibility to draw the congressional maps. >> they did, nancy, presented one and got vetoed, right? >> yes but they did not come back with an alternative or compromise. during the special session they just handed it over. that's not how it was supposed to go down. >> mark caputo said last night it's the first time it happened in florida where the governor has taken over this legislative role to be able to create that map but let's talk about practical chilling effects because the last day to qualify in florida for a congressional seat is june 17th with an august 23rd primary, so what chilling effect practically are we going to see with this map if ron desantis' map is approved? >> we'll see democrats scrambling to find someone who will be able to counter say a republican in that race. to cou republican in that race. we are going to see fallout in that we will see fewer black districts. it will strengthen the republicans' position and more specifically his position not just in 2022 but 2024 should he run for the white house. this makes us perpetually a red state, no longer purple. a red state. but done through what many would call unconstitutional means. >> which ultimately we think we'll have a legal challenge on. you know, molly, i'm going to bring you in. florida is just one of many gop dominated states that have recently passed new abortion restrictions into law, kentucky, oklahoma, arizona, idaho, texas, and wyoming have also restricted abortion access this year. what impact are these new laws having across the united states? >> so all of these laws were started by texas, right. by governor abbott, who, in august, beginning of september, had this bill sb-8, which was this completely crazy bill that banned abortion after six weeks. and every one, smart people thought the supreme court would overturn it because it was outside the norm. but instead what happened, what we saw with this very conservative 6-3 court, was that they just decided the liked the spirit of the law. so they would let it stay. and that sent a message to all of these other red state legislatures, go, open season. roe is gone. and now we're waiting for june when these supreme court decisions come down, before they all go on vacation. and we're going to see that they're -- i think it's almost certain that they're going to overturn roe. so these states are jockeying for the first to be the first to ban abortion. and i think this comes back to this idea of what's happening in -- you know, in florida, which is that these red state governors want to be the trumpiest. they want to be the most republican. they want to do the craziest things. and they want to appeal to those small dollar donations the way marjorie taylor greene has. so you see they're incentivized to act more and more republican and act more and more anti-choice and anti-democracy. and there's no incentive for them to not. >> joyce, legally speaking, though, why is there this mad dash to the finish line for these states to set the table with these types of anti-abortion laws before we get the decision from scotus on dobbs by the end of 2022? >> some of these states want to be in line to do as much damage to women's rights as soon as they can. as soon as the court announces the decision in dobbs, which is the mississippi case. and one suspects the court may stop short of saying the words roe versus wade is over turned because there are people with political savvy and might appreciate the effect on voters. so we might see a gutting of roe versus wade, ends a legal abortion in the united states without jumping through a lot of hoops, at least in states willing to prohibit it. a lot of states have old laws on the books that pre-date roe. so if roe is overturned or limited, those laws go back into effect and act as a barrier to abortion. there are states like my state, alabama, that have rushed to pass new laws and we see these increasingly restrictive laws, some go far as to criminalize a doctor who performance an abortion. and permeating this is this aura of uncertainty. this inability to draw bright lines between what's legal and not legal, which, of course, has the effect of chilling rights to obtain an abortion. we see states where the last few remaining clinics are saying we can't continue to perform abortions because we're afraid of the legal consequences. that's exactly what republicans are trying to achieve with this new rash of laws. >> nancy, not to be contented with just the congressional redistricting and abortion laws, math textbooks in florida are under attack by republicans. the florida department of education announced the state is not going to include dozens of math text books in a list by school district because the content included referencing to critical race theory and other, quote, prohibited topics and unsolicited strategies. what's next? science books, coloring books? what's the limit with this type of banning? >> i don't think there has to be a limit. i think the laws are purposefully vague so anything can be deemed offensive, any mention of rosa parks, martin luther king, american history, someone will beo fended and that's why critical race theory, which was not taught in elementary schools, in public schools -- public k through 12 let me say. it's vague. it gives people wide berth to challenge books, curriculum that deal with american history that is uncomfortable to learn, but true. and so, where does it end? you tell me. >> nancy, my concern is by the time the litigation -- that's always the place it goes, we talk about this all the time, by the time the litigation winds its way through, what is going to be the harmful effects on everyone from kids to adults, i think it's going to be a lot. nancy, thank you for being here. thanks to my panelists, molly and joyce. thanks for watching "the katie phang show" i'm back tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. easter. maria teresa kumar is in for ali velshi right after the break. rek to help prevent bleeding gums, try saying hello gumwash with parodontax active gum health. it kills 99% of plaque bacteria and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash. nothing like a weekend in the woods. it's a good choice all around, like screening for colon cancer... when caught in early stages it's more treatable. i'm cologuard. i'm noninvasive... and i detect altered dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers... even in early stages. early stages. yep. it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider if cologuard is right for you. we're in. looking to get back in your type 2 diabetes zone? 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