former president trump, but reveals a new element in his far-reaching attempt to overturn biden's victory. and chairman, bennie thompson, said the panel has spoken with bill barr. >> we have had conversations with the former attorney general already. we talked to the department of defense individuals. we are concerned that our military was part of this big lie on promoting that the election was false. so if you are using the military to potentially seize voting machines even though it's a discussion, the public needs to know. >> there's bill barr, and then the question to hear from ivanka trump. you will remember, the president's daughter served as a white house adviser, putting her within the epicenter of power, making her a public servant who answers to the american people who can be scrutinized and held accountable through congressional oversight. >> ivanka is not just donald's daughter, but she was a senior adviser, and so could you imagine if, in fact, merrick garland finally takes off the gloves and when she is in contempt of the subpoena, they go ahead and indict her, and that's when you are going to see a very different ivanka, because very much like her father, ivanka is interested in only ivanka. >> remember, this is just not about january 6th. the trumps also face civil investigation into their family business in new york. last week the state's attorney general issued subpoenas for documents and testimony as part of her civil tax fraud investigation. it's easy to view the trump's as farce but there's an element of tragedy with the children emulating the since of their father and the wheels of justice grind slowly but they do grind and even trump must know he can't hide from consequences forever. it's only a matter of time. helping us kick off this hour, contributor and national correspondent for politico, betsy swann, and also with us, joyce advance, served as u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama and is now a law processor at the university of alabama. betsy, i want to start with the panel speaking with bill barr, and here's what another member of the committee said a short time ago on msnbc about their talks with barr. take a listen. >> it was not a formal, you know, deposition. there's been some discussions that the attorneys on the staff have had with the former attorney general. it was done on a voluntary basis. >> what information can barr provide to this committee? >> one thing that barr has detailed knowledge of is the extent of which the fbi investigated the whacky allegations about voter fraud that it ultimately shot down. remember, barr over road on a long-standing practice in doj and he over road career officials to direct the fbi to immediately investigate allegations of voteder fraud right after the 2020 election. the result of that dramatic break from precedent was that the fbi was able to look into some of these truly kooky claims, and they were, indeed, not serious, and barr was able to go public to the ap in december and say the fbi look into this stuff and there is no there there. it took out one tool that giuliani and sidney powell folks were hoping would help them, they wanted to get the fbi onboard with what they were doing and they wanted the fbi to cosign the allegations they were leveling and barr came in and said it's not going to happen. there were whacky conspiracy theories we would assume the fbi was look into, since it was looking into the conspiracy theories it looked at most broadly, and it would look at anything related to the people in the white house or outside allies of president trump may have leaned on the justice department and the fbi to try and co-opt those institutions to help them overturn the elections, and the fact that barr is volunteering to help is one of the gains. >> talk about the potential impact if former attorney general barr were to testify this spring when the committee's hearings are televised. do the american people need to hear from him directly? >> it's a long way to go from some involuntary -- rather some voluntary conversations with committee staffers to testifying under oath, right? this is a big distance. as a former attorney general he has almost a sacred trust with the american people, an obligation to tell the truth. i think betsy does a great job of nailing some of the areas where he can be of most help to the committee, but one of the lingering questions about barr that you will recall, alicia, resigned just before christmas and as we are now learning just as this executive order was apparently beginning to go around in circulation, it would be nice for the country to have an understanding why barr resigned when he did. the notion he was resigning to spend more time with his family just as the christmas holidays were about to begin has always rung that he would have been out of office in a matter of weeks never made sense. it's up to barr to explain what he saw coming down the road that even bill barr, long-time trump supporter that twisted himself into pretzel like knots to keep the mueller report from coming out and being dangerous to the president, and what did bill barr see that was so bad he could no longer remain in service of the administration. >> it feels like we are getting closer and closer to principle players here, and ivanka trump, this is what her cousin said a short time ago here. >> he's doing that to protect himself, because he knows, she may, indeed, have damning information. she's making the same calculation. what will help her in the long run. she knows that she has to come down on the right side of things or she'll continue to stay her father's ally, and then she will have to see how that plays out. she's in a very bad situation because she must understand that if donald feels it's necessary, he will stop protecting her. >> so joyce, with that family dynamic in mind, what would indicate to you that ivanka is nearing a decision on how to proceed? >> the statement that she put out last week after the committee required or requested her presence to speak with them was the two ships passing in the night sort of response that you don't see too often in this setting. almost as though ivanka trump doesn't realize how serious this is. the supreme court just diminished the executive privilege will protect people in her shoes from testifying about goings on that relate to january 6th, so she faces the prospect that if she flouts the committee's request, should it turn into a subpoena, and then typically when you see children and parents involved in criminality, at least in my experience, parents will bend over backwards to protect their children and this is obviously a family where that dynamic is very different, and if ivanka trump is faced with prosecution, we will see how that plays out. ultimately the truth has a way of surfacing, and the fact is the committee is at the point where it's willing to speak to ivanka trump suggests they have been successful with the voluntary interviews. it's unlikely they want to speak to her to find out what she knows, but far more likely they have a good bit of information that is prepared in a fashion where they can take it to the bank that they are ready to confront her with. >> i have only a minute left but i have to get this in. this is not just his daughter, she also worked in the administration. she was a public servant in that capacity inasmuch as they want to hear from her as his kid but also as a person that was inside the building that had pull and sway. your final thoughts? >> the january 6th committee is treating her with an unusual amount of politeness, and they have already subpoenaed mark meadows and referred mark meadows to the justice department for contempt because he did not comply with that subpoena, and if the committee feels it's legally proper and defensible for them to issue a subpoena going after meadows the same justification would also apply to the president's daughter. just because she was a relative of the president's daughter, she got a government salary and worked for the u.s. government and doing government work with detailed knowledge with everything that happened in the oval office on january 6th. >> thank you both for getting us started. next, what is with the bad blood between trump and ron desantis? and first, to richard lui with other big stories. >> we have breaking news from the state department this hour. it ordered families of all american personnel at the u.s. embassy in ukraine to leave the country. fears are increasing of a possible invasion by russia. the state department also told nonessential embassy staffers they can leave ukraine. the kiev embassy will remain open and it's not a full evacuation. moments ago, breaking news that president biden is weighing deploying thousands of troops to eastern europe and the baltics. we'll keep an eye on that for you. and then a wildfire along big sur coast in california. evacuation orders in effect. no word yet on what sparked the fire on friday. today there was a march in the streets in d.c. against vaccine mandates. speeches at the defeat the mandates rally were given by high profile figures of the anti-vaccine movements that made misleading claims about the covid-19 vaccine. more "american voices," right after this break. r this breakff. doug blows several different whistles. [a vulture squawks.] there he is. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty♪ (vo) verizon is going ultra! and so is manny! event planning with our best business unlimited plan ever! with 5g ultra wideband now in many more cities and up to 10 only pay for what you need. times the speed at no extra cost, the downloads are flying fast! verizon is going ultra, so your business can too. ♪ ♪ before you go there, or fist bump there, or...oh! i can't wait to go there! or reunite there, ♪ ♪ start here. walgreens makes it easy to stay protected wherever you go. schedule your free covid-19 booster today. what's the matter, donald? is it something ron said? or perhaps it's something he hasn't said yet. am i right, donald? >> don versus ron. that's a new political ad taking aim at the budding rivalry between the former guy and florida's governor. new reporting from usa today wrote a one-time trump prtégé. desantis refuses to say if he's vaccinated and calls it a private matter. what is all this back and forth really about? let's ask msnbc political analyst, the host of "strange day" broadcast. it's good to see you both. what is this beef about? >> well, it can be defined really in the following numerals, 2024. there's no room in the trump republican party other than anybody as the lead dog, and he has ever intention of running in 2024, and the fact that desantis has not done what every other trump protégé has said, and it has created a real cold war. this is not media over hyping or just talking about knowledge, but this is true. trump is extraordinarily resentful of the fact that somebody he feels he created in ron desantis is challenging his supremacy over the republican party. >> what will does that tell you that trump and his allies are taking shots at desantis? >> they are threatened. last year he criminalized protests and rigged voting rules and now he is intimidating voters and creating more obstacles and turning out black and latino voters to the polls and banning abortion and history classes. it's a disaster. he has rallied his base and trump clearly feels the threat. >> to build upon what andrea said there, i want to turn to a new opinion piece calling out desantis' copycat behavior. every time there's a big trump parade, whether it's for the border wall or against critical race theory or big tech, desantis jumped in front and pretends he's the later and he's supposed to be the future of the republican party and shouldn't he be more of a grown up chief executive rather than a thirsty head? was there a way to say here's an actual legitimate alternative for you republican voters in 2024? >> there would have been had trump been indicted or jailed for the many crimes we have seen him commit in the last four years, but there's no trump republican party without trump on top of it and the only way desantis can make that case is by kissing the ring and tkpwraufling. they have all been steam rolled. there's no room for anybody not named trump to lead this republican party, unless trump says it's so. 2024 is trump's nomination for the taking. >> you laid out a whole bouquet of issues, crt and talking about voter suppression inside of the state, and there's a strange back and forth over vaccinations status. what do you make of that and what that tells you about the state of the republican party? >> it's clearly governor desantis has been a disaster in terms of public protections and the back and forth, and will he ever admit if he got the booster or not? it continues in the line of how he is defrauding floridians. he says he's working for the people and then cutting billions of dollars in corporate tax breaks. the ad is clever and we can analyze what is going on in trump land all day long, but the best way not to return to that is show the better alternative, deliver on supporting renters and small businesses the same way desantis is supporting large corporations and investing in hospitals and schools and advancing us into the clean energy future. >> i hear from your point, having an alternative vision to go out and sell to voters, but where does this all leave florida republicans if you have desantis and trump in a feud? who do they follow? >> again, they are going to follow trump. the polls, alicia, make it clear, trump has the highest factorability ratings among republicans and the affect desantis enjoys and the perception that he is trump's boy. the best news about all of this for florida democrats and democrats across the country is they should sit back and pass the popcorn and watch this civil war, because this is the sort of thing that can be a speed bump into what looks like a very good opportunity for ron desantis to win re-election. if trump decides he has to knock him down a notch, and there's no better way than to help bring down the re-election of governor florida, i think this is wonderful news for democrats and it's something that a lot of folks will pay a lot of close attention to to see if the fluid escalates into an open war. >> you are both sticking with me, because next dark money and ghost candidates, just another day in florida politics. new reporting on who is funneling cash to influence elections statewide, plus inside the state for arizona's secretary of state, and it's a position that oversees elections when the faith in the process is being questioned. being questioned ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ it's your home. and there's no place like wayfair to make your reach-in closet, feel like a walk-in closet now that's more your style. make the morning chaos, organized chaos. and make sure everything's in it's place. so nothing is out of place. however you make it, make your home a place like no other. with relapsing forms of ms... there's a lot to deal with. not just unpredictable relapses. all these other things too. it can all add up. kesimpta is a once-monthly at-home injection... that may help you put these rms challenges in their place. kesimpta was proven superior at reducing the rate of relapses, active lesions, and slowing disability progression vs aubagio. don't take kesimpta if you have hepatitis b, and tell your doctor if you have had it, as it could come back. kesimpta can cause serious side effects, including infections. while no cases of pml were reported in rms clinical trials, it could happen. tell your doctor if you had or plan to have vaccines, or if you are or plan to become pregnant. kesimpta may cause a decrease in some types of antibodies. the most common side effects are upper respiratory tract infection, headache, and injection reactions. ready for an at-home treatment with dramatic results? 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(vo) t-mobile for business wants to make this the best year for your business yet. when you switch and bring your own device, we'll pay off your phone up to $800. you can keep your phone. and keep your number. visit your local t-mobile store today. in the name of the big lie republicans keep searching for solutions to problems that don't exist to certainly rile of the base. ron desantis pushing ahead with his $6 million for office of election crimes. it would include 20 sworn police officers to investigate elections, because we simply cannot say it enough, there was no widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election in florida or any other state. florida republicans also embracing dark money tactics to deceive voters. new reporting taking us behind what is funding and what is known as ghost candidates. for the 2020 elections, mysterious independent candidates popped up on the ballot for the tight races for the florida senate. these candidates did not campaign for office but were boosted by a blitz that promoted them as progressives in an attempt to lure voters away from democrats in the race. it was a collection of tactics and strategies from the pandemic and miami to sway elections from mayor to state senator, resist efforts to reshape florida's constitution and advance the interest of some powerful corporations as they say follow the money, where did the money lead you? >> in the case of the ghost candidates, what we learned is the money for the advertising campaign came from a non-profit closely linked to associated groups in america, and florida power and light, walt disney world, and the two big sugar growers. >> when you hear about this and read about this, as i know you do as an observer and practitioner in the state, what does it say about the state of our democracy and the state of florida's republican party? >> well, here's what it says to me, alicia. the republicans are absolutely right. there's voter fraud taking place in florida, and there are electoral crimes being committed in florida and the problem is it's the republicans doing it. we have seen systematic examples in the case of ghost candidates, and areas like the villages where there seems to be a scandal where folks voted twice, and these are taking place to benefit republican candidates and hold on to republican power, and if anything this kind of strange gestapo type we are going to enforce the elections going forward with the new funding governor desantis put in place puts an ominous quality on that. in florida there has been, so far, a sense of impunity and immunity for those republicans and those republicans tied to interest that are behind the issues in florida. >> it's just one piece of this, and you have florida republicans working to undermine democracy through restrictive voting bills and touting trump's big lie. how do all of the factors work together? >> last year they passed sb-90 which was a law to suppress the vote in florida, not only before if you voted by mail you could vote in several elections, and now it's just valid for that election cycle because they saw the democrats had a huge advantage for signing up by mail, and they made it more difficult for companies like ours to do third-party registration, and we are a plaintiff in a lawsuit, and they are continuing on with the election police force to continue to suppress the vote and rig the rules. in a place like florida, the margins are so close. governor desantis won his race against andrew gillum by a quarter of a percentage. these races we are looking at, josé rodriguez, who was a champion for clean energy, and he lost that race by 32 votes. their ghost candidates strategy, it had a difference in the election. they will stop at nothing to maintain their hold on power. >> i want to look back to a point that furnan made about the absence of accountability here. is there any appetite for that on that, and is there effort to safeguard and put safeguards in place so you don't see most ghost candidates popping up in future elections? >> in the florida legislate and according to some attorneys' readings of the bill, if it were to pass it would make it illegal for prosecutors in this case who obtained bank records for the non-profits at the center of this, they made it illegal for them to release the donor records. >> i think about what you said in our conversation, about ron versus don, how it was an opportunity for democrats to sit back and pass the popcorn and watch as the feud unfolded but you would agree that the democrats do not have that luxury, they can't sit back and watch as this piece unfolds. what do they need to be doing to make sure this does not repeat itself go into the next election? >> alicia, the other one is a political problem. this is potentially a legal problem, but as jason just eluded to, you can't count on the florida attorney general who is a republican, and many of the judicial figures would do anything, and i think this falls into the department of justice and merrick garland and if they don't stop what is happening and how the republicans are perfecting the model to rig the system in florida it could be easily exported to other states, and the benchmark is the legal system and the department of justice now, and in november of 2022, if the voters of the state of florida see this and decide they will not tolerate the criminal behavior that undermines democracy but is a sledge hammer of democracy, vote against the republican perpetrating this. next, on how the big lie is fueling the arizona secretary of state's race. we are going to talk about this after the next break. later, saving themselves. how gen z is using their passion and fear to reshape the future. you're watching "american voices." watching "american voices." well, would you look at that? 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i think when you zoom out and look at what is plaguing our democracy big picture, that's a big piece of the puzzle. >> first are all, thank you for having me. you do your job and you call balls and strikes and be the reliable public service folks want you to be, and that's what i did as the 2020 maricopa county recorder, and the system was designed under my team and we knocked it out of the park. folks, understand now after the countless court cases and all that stuff, we did our job. when you have a record like that to stand on, that's tough to compete against. the truth will prevail. if we don't believe that, why are we doing this, right? >> you told "rolling stone," you had moments you might need to draw on your training as a former marine. how did seeing the onslaught in the democratic norms draw -- >> we did draw on the training i had. we planned out the way that parking lot you are showing now was going to look, and where we put the barriers in conjunction, and as far as the rest of it goes, arizona voters like the rest of the voters in the united states of america are slowly but surely coming around. folks are sick and tired of the uncertainty and weirdness and conspiracies, and they want to be they can rely on and somebody they know will tell the truth win or lose. that's the candidate that i present. i think that's what america's voters really want. >> if elected you would be the first latino secretary of state in arizona, and advocates have been sounding the alarm on voting restrictions in your state and how they keep latino voters from accessing ballots, and is that a fear you have on the ground? >> maricopa county was notorious for not treating all of our voters equally until we got into office, and we registered 4 million more voters and we had 600 more ballots casts between 2016 and 2020 here in arizona. we opened up access to all voters and citizens who were eligible to vote and we did it effectively and in a global pandemic. we had a killer team out there, a bipartisan team that folks trusted and trusted well. i know there's plenty of republicans and independents who understand the work that we did and i'm confident that we will see all of the folks come together again as we move forward. we just have to present that solid front of fact knowing americans and people that just don't believe in the big lie. that's the majority of us and we have to stick together behind the reliable leadership. >> saturday arizona's democratic party censured kyrsten sinema for her vote against changing the filibuster for voting rights. do you support that move? >> absolutely. i was calling for the end of the filibuster particularly as to voting rights when i stood with a lot of veterans out -- my fellow veterans out at the state capitol months ago. i think senator sinema is dead wrong and is focusing on her political future instead of the job at hand. i, unlike senator sinema, focused on the job at hand and it cost me politically but i sleep well at night, and i don't think senator sinema can say the same. >> when i hear about everything that you and your family went through, this idea of having go bags and sending your children out in case of a threat, and people will ask why do you want to do this? why is it worth it? >> because it's worth it, because this is america. because our democracy is that shiny city on the hill. because we care, and it matters and countless generations before us have made sacrifices, and i am not so comfortable in the way that we live that i am not going to go ahead and take on the risks and responsibilities of leadership. it's important that we have folks that not only understands the systems well and have done the job and are ready on day one. that's why i am running for arizona secretary of state. this old marine once swore to give this country a blank check payable on his life, and now i guess i have to do the same because we have to protect the same democracy. it's just in a different uniform, i suppose. >> adrian fontez, thank you for your time. first, a preview of what is ahead tonight. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern, i am going to talk to planned parent hood president, and 40 years to the day with a 6-3 majority, join us at 8:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. t here on m. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ (vo) for me, one of the best things about life is that only pay for what you need. we keep moving forward. we discover exciting new technologies. redefine who we are and how we want to lead our lives. basically, choose what we want our future to look like. so what's yours going to be? 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[a vulture squawks.] oh boy. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty♪ we can't afford to go in the hospital. >> we're all tired, so tired and i just want to get decent grades. >> more student walkouts across the country as young americans demand their school districts get more serious about covid safety. it's not the first time gen z has takenit. zoomers, as they are known, have led the fight against mass shootings and to address climate change, and a new book argues they might be just what america needs to get over this divisive time in history. a passage reading, quote, they will change america more than growing up in america will change them. joining me now, john della volpe, director of polling at the harvard kennedy institute of politics. he is the author of "fight: how gen z is channeling their fear and passion to save america." john, my husband says the most millennial thing about me is how much i love gen z and love their spirit. where does this fighting spirit come from? >> well, i think it's passed to them, i think, in some way by millennials. i call them in the book kind of their older cousins. you know, gen z certainly there's, i think, a lot of your generations values and political outlook. i think one of the differences, though, alicia, is that the urgency of that is drawn from growing up in a time where, i argue, america has never seen more turmoil and chaos brought upon a generation so quickly in at least 75 years than gen z. we're talking about 70 million young americans, roughly between the ages of 10 and 11 and mid-20s. most educated, most diverse generation in america, and politicians and corporations and educators, they all need to listen more and really begin to mentor and help this generation because they're doing great things. they're doing great things. >> it is really fascinating to hear you say that considering that, you know, for millennials, september 11th, the aftermath of september 11th was such this pivotal moment, right, in the way not just that we saw the world and america's role on the world stage, but also the way in which we saw a relationship to our own parents, our relationship to government, our relationship to institutions. has there been one -- one moment that has crystallized that for gen z, or is it really a series of moments? >> i think it's a series of moments, in the book, i think there are five moments that have helped shape this generation's values, five of them, the first of which, i again, a gift from millennials to younger cousins of gen z was the occupy movement, alicia. in 2011, politics became thought of through the lens of capitalism and inequality and economic inequality. that is how this generation began to first thing about politics. of course, bernie sanders, was a significant role -- played a significant role in that part one. then you add to that, you add the election of donald trump and, alicia, i saw a significant shift in the polling from harvard, similar to the shift i saw post-9/11. after that, february 14th, 2018, a handful of young americans from parkland, florida, captured all of our attention, contact congress, et cetera, to change our gun laws. a little girl -- a middle schooler in sweden was watching this and used those practices to turn the world's attention to her climate strike. greta thunberg, of course. then the fifth element, again, before even their 25th birthday and before even covid, the fifth part of this is what young darnella frazier, a 17-year-old high school student in minnesota did with her iphone when she captured the gruesome and brutal murder of george floyd. we may not know if not for gen z and the way in which every member seemed like of that generation seemed to organize for. >> i am also struck by the fact that there's so much heft to all of the issues you just laid out, and at the same time, you put that side by side with the levity of their organizing, sort of that k-pop moment around donald trump. you know, that they have come at things both very directly through traditional organizing models and they have also learned how to sort of sideswipe some of these things. >> well, that's it. all peaceful means necessary. i think that is one of the differences between this generation and millennials. you know, they're using those cultural moments. they're using technology. there's using tiktok and instagram, et cetera, but they're also voting. in 2018, this generation essentially kind of doubled the youth vote compared to when millennials were that age and when my generation, gen x, and even baby boomers. the average turnout in midterm elections was doubled when gen z entered in 2018. in 2020, we saw historic turnout among younger people. it eclipsed even what millennials did when they helped elect barack obama in 2008. so, again, they're using 360 degrees. they're attacking the system in every way they can to create change as quickly as possible. >> john della volpe, thank you so much. his book "fight: how gen z is channeling their fear and passion to save america." it is available now. more "american voices" after this quick break. "tamerican vor this quick break ♪ ♪ (vo) verizon is going ultra! and so is manny! event planning with our best business unlimited plan ever! with 5g ultra wideband now in many more cities and up to 10 times the speed at no extra cost, the downloads are flying fast! verizon is going ultra, so your business can too. before we leave you, a new study gives us an extensive look at the effects of heat on people under 18. researchers looked in warm weather months, may to september, and found a nearly 12% spike in e.r. visits attributable to higher temperatures. they found nearly a third of e.r. visits by kids were for heat-related illnesses. doctors think it has to do with the way kids process heat and their ability to cope with rising temperatures not the same as adults. and doctors point out we don't fully know the long-term effects. it is, of course, horrible news because kids getting sick is never good. it is awful, period. and if the last two years have taught us anything, it's that they're a really high societal cost to people getting sick all at once. as temperatures rise, may to september is going to turn into april to october. the effects will happen disproportionately to kids. the question is will our democracy make the changes to protect them? that is all the time i have for today. i'm alicia menendez. for now, i hand it over to mehdi hasan. >> alicia, thank you so. much. tonight on "the mehdi hasan show". arizona democrats have had it with senator kyrsten sinema and congressman ruben gallego is no exception. i'll ask him if he's willing to step up and primary her. plus it's a critical moment in ukraine for averting a russian invasion. is there time still for a diplomatic solution? i'll ask a top russia expert, who also happens to be khrushchev's great granddaughter. and later, inside one small alabama town that's run like a police empire. half the city's revenue comes from fine and forfeitures alone. from fine and forfeitures alone. good evening. i'm

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