Transcripts For MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240709 : comp

Transcripts For MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240709



the state of georgia. in large part, because that is where donald trump's elections lies. reuters reported in detail threats and harassment against georgia secretary of state, brad raffensberger republicans and his wife after they refused to overtourn joe biden's win there, weeks after, the justice department announced it was launch ac task force, to threat to an official worker volunteer is a threat to democracy. well, it has been almost six months since that task force was announced. but today it filed its first charges. a texas man was indicted today for threatening election and government officials in georgia. he does not name the official this man threatened to killed, referring to them as officials the a, b and c, during the indictment, he posted a message to craigslist january last year titled georgia patriots, it's time to kill official a the chinese agent. $10,000. i guess the $10,000 he was offering to pay to have that official killed? he then goes on to talk about putting bullets in three georgia treasonous traitors. we are don't know who this man threatened. as for the weird stuff about one weird election official being a chinese act. obviously, there were all kind of conspiracy theories pushed about foreign kumpbts, including countries, including china and president trump accused brad raffensperger to hide the fraud because his brother worked for china. not only did brad raffensberger not have a brother that works for china. he does not have a brother. the justice department task force is going to task threatennings, the first charge should come out of georgia. georgia really has been ground zero for harassment of election workers. because it's been grounds zero for donald trump's company to overturn the election and undermine the elections for the next time around. i mean, this guy in texas didn't wake up one morning and decide he would ran domly kill election officials in georgia. he did not think of it on his own. a pressure campaign against elections officials has consequences. consequences that were warned about all the way back if december 2020 by georgia's top elections administrator, a republican. you may remember this moment. >> i am going to do my best to keep it together, because it has all gone to far. all of it. the fraud that broke the camel's back in this 20-year-old contract for a voting system company just trying to do his job. his family is getting harassed. there is a noose out there with his name on it. that's not right. this kid took a job. he just took a job. and it's just wrong. i can't begin to explain the level of averageer i have right now over this and every american many, republican and georgian alike should have that same level of anger. mr. president, it looks like you likely lost the state of georgia. we're investigating. there is always a possibility. i get it, you have the right to go to the court. you don't have the ability to do, you need to stop inspiring people who commit potentializing vie leps. someone is going to get hurt. someone is going to get shot. someone is going to get killed. it's not right. >> it was clear s. all the way back in december 2020 that the campaign of pressure and harassment against elections officials by donald trump and his allies, which were producing a campaign of threats and harassments against election officials by his supporters. no one has been killed and thank goodness. but elections work as officials in georgia and across the country are being terrorized and leaving their jobs in droves. we were reminded this week, it is not just those threats being investigated. trump's pressure campaign, itself, is very much under criminal investigation. the district attorney in fulton county, georgia this week moved to empanel a special grand jury in her investigation into trump's attempts to mess with the election in georgia. that investigation center can thes on that infamous phone call to brad raffensperger pressuring him to find more votes. if it's approved, it will issue subpoena for testimony in evidence. it wasn't just the georgia case potentially taking that big leap forward this week, this may have been the worst week of legal developments for donald trump, his family and his allies since he left office. this week also brought new allegations from new york's attorney general of possible fraud at trump's business a filing this week lays out the most detailed accusations yet of potentially fraudulent business practices at the trump organization. as attorney general james compels testimony from donald trump, his son don, jr. and daughter ivanka, suggesting her year's long investigation may be nearing it end. the january 6th investigation this week asked for testimony from ivanka trump in a letter that laid out in stunning detail how much the committee has learned about what was going on inside the oval office as rioters ransacked the capitol on january 6th and how little trump did to stop the violence. even as though around him, including his own daughter begged him to intervene. there were also damming development this is week on the fake elect tore scheme the scheme in which republicans in states joe biden won created and signed certificates asserting trump had won their states and sent these fake slates of selectors to congress. there were multiple reports this week this plot was pushed and coordinated directly by the trump campaign, specifically by, who else, rudy guiliani. that comes as officials in multiple states this week announced investigations or criminal referrals related to that scheme, suggesting there could ultimately be criminal charges for those involved for forgery or other related crimes. one democratic congressman from wisconsin today asked tomorrow merrick garland to look into the matter. speaking of rudy guiliani tonight thousands of his documents were turned over to people investigating his dealings in ukraine. it's hard to keep up. all of that doesn't cover what may have been donald trump's biggest loss this week, (handing) over hundreds of white house records to the january 6th investigation. trump had been fighting it for month. but now those records have been delivered to the investigators. and oh boy, the first document we have gotten a look at is a doozy. it is a draft executive order turned over from the files of a white house lawyer that would have ordered the defense secretary to seize voting machines. this never issued executive order says the defense secretary must seize all the voting machines because all the voting machines companies were infiltrated by foreign powers who changed all the vote totals and made it seem like trump lost. which is, of course, stunning. but also can i just say at the end of a week in which republicans have been relentlessly hammering democrats over the voting rights bill calling it a federal takeover of elections. here is evidence of donald trump considering an actual federal takeover of elections and election machines. look, to be clear, a lot of this draft executive order is written in language that does not bear resemblance to anything like an actual presidential order. they point out the on of the document cites a number of presidential authorities, including a classified document that has not been previously reported on, which may suggest that someone involved in drafting the document had access to sensitive government information. that said, we do not know two drafted it nor how seriously it has been considered. what has been previously reported is some proposal like this was debated in the oval office december 18th, 2020. this document is dated the 16th of december. but this is only the first trump white house record we've seen turned over to the january 6th investigation. what on earth are they going to turn up? joining us now is congressman pete aguilar, a democrat from california, a member of the january 6th investigation. congressman, thank you for joining us this evening. much to discuss this draft executive order obtained by politico would have directed the secretary of defense of the united states to seize voting machines. this is in line with proposals, we know that sydney kraken powell presented to trump in 2020. what do you make? does the committee have any lead who might have dropped this document? >> well, these types of things are absolutely dangerous and scary to think that the former administration had actually gone to these steps and these lengths. i'm not if him to talk about specific documents that we received. but i will say that we received hundreds of pages of documents from the archives that are responsive to the supreme court decision in which the former president lost. and so we continue to go over that production. but what i can tell you is that these documents will prove fruitful and helpful to aid in our investigation to shine a clear light on what happened leading up to january 6th. it will give us more insight into what we have already learned through depositions, interviews as well as public reporting and sourcing outside of that. this is incredibly helpful to our effort. but it is dangerous and scary what the prior administration was planning. >> i often pull back on that quote, what would you say if you saw this in another country. the committee now has in its possession all 700-plus pages trump tried to shield from your committee. how does your committee plan to scrutinize the documents and will the public see them in shorter order? chairman ben benny thompson said we might see them? >> at some point we will cite some in public hearings as well as in a final report that we produce and upon the conclusion of that additional items may 'made public. but what i can tell you is that we do plan on turning the page from the investigative side to more public hearings in the future so that's where we will continue to be able to share with the public exactly what we have learned, what the prior administration was doing to thwart and undercut a free and fair election all of the effort and where they originated, in the white house, how they tried to use the department of justice, all of these efforts that we know and have been out in the public and these documents and what we continue to learn will serve as the connective tissue to a lot of that. >> maybe i can speak for a lot of viewers of this show when i say there is a lot of us waiting to see these public hearings. congressman, turning to the fraudulent electors. you called the submission of a fraudulent document, quote, a dangerous precedent. the committee is reportedly looking into that, coordinated effort by trump allies in these five states. has the committee reached out to any of these fraudulent actors yet? if not, are there plans to do so? >> we've had conversations with different states, elections officials and we have had conversations with some of these, with individuals in these contested states. but i'm not going to talk about who we have interviewed and had discussions with. but we aren't just focusing on washington, d.c. beltway. we have gone out into the state, have conversations that will be help. and fruitful to our efforts. >> is it bizarre in a week where the republicans rejected all of your voting rights bills in the senate dulaimiing that this is a democratic party federal takeover of elections, we are seeing the republican body at the state level, the federal government allegedly, the donald trump federal government allegedly trying to direct republicans to overturn state's slates of electors. the irony is pretty rich? >> and the silence is deafening, right, from some of my republican colleagues to date. while they continue to talk about our efforts to expand the voting rights act, which, by the way, was passed in a unanimous way 15 years ago in the senate, so those types of ironies aren't lost on a lot of us who continue to stand for free and fair elections and wanting to make sure that everybody legally can possible does have that object to and in each of these states, all of the efforts are lost that they continue to put in the way of people exercising the franchise and their right to vote. >> congressman, your committee colleague congressman adam schiff said the committee has not made a subpoena decision yet in subpoenaing ivanka trump. how long will the committee wait for a response before making a decision to subpoena her? >> i'm not aware of a response from ivanka trump and like my colleague said, chairman schiff said, we haven't made any decisions yet. but what we do know from our other interviews and from public reporting is is that ivanka trump was there in the room with the former president as a lot of this was happening as well as during the conversations within the former president called the vice president pence to continue the pressure campaign up until the morning of january 6th. so she heard at least one side of that conversation. and so we feel that she has something to share. we feel that will help aid in our efforts. if someone was truly concerned about protecting democracy they would come before our except willingly and voluntarily. so we haven't heard anything yet from her to date, though. >> i can say quite confidently without hearing about her at a public hearing, she's not really interested in saving democracy. that's just my view. congressman pete aguilar, member of the january 6th committee. thank you for your time tonight. >> thanks. >> up next, listening to your spouse is important. what if your spouse is an extremist that spouts conspiracy theorists and you are a united states supreme court justice, what do you do then? more on that next. justice, justice, what do yo [bacon sizzles] ♪ [electronic music plays] ♪ more on that next. woo! are you one of the millions of americans who experience occasional bloating, gas or abdominal discomfort? taking align can help. align contains a quality probiotic to naturally help soothe digestive upsets 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helping others. we don't need a superhero to solve san francisco's biggest problems like crime and homelessness, just the innovation and courage to lead. join me. . all right. what i'm about to show you now is a social media post shared by a prominent conservative activist just before the 2020 election. it shows hillary clinton, house speaker nancy pelosi and vice presidential candidate kamala harris all shaking hands with people reportedly to be family members of george sore office. we blurred their faces. it's a classic example of the anti-semitic theory that he is a puppet mast tore party politicianles. who is running the porte party? ...the sore soros family carrying on his illegal legacy before insurrectionists stormed the u.s. capitol. watch maga crowd today best with breitbart and love mag that people and a little later on january 6th same conservative activist posted again, quote, god bless each of you, standing up or praying!" you mate' say it's the broempgs we had to get used to in recent years it might have been posted by mike flynn or the my pillow buy the or qanon charm shawman. it wasn't, it was posted by the wife of clarence thomas, for decades before her husband was on the supreme court, she has been active in the fringier partsdz of the trump era. she ratcheted up a notch about leftist cues, mocking victims of school shootings and of course making baseless claims about democrats stealing elections. you might be saying, so what, sure, that all sounds nothing lots of people post strange things. it doesn't necessarily mean their spouses post things as well. last year "the washington post" first reported ginny thomas was active in an online forum of former law clerks of him and they report she fought about trump's election loss alongside the lawyer john eastman. imagine that you are one of the few people to get the prestigious just job and the boss' wife is berating you about trump losing the expand she's attacked the january 6th investigation and challenging them for their participation in it. as her husband sits on the court weighing decisions about that very investigation. which is why no one should interest surprised to hand his records ever earlier this week and the one justice who sided the trump in that situation was, drum rom, clarence thomas. what would you say if you saw this in another country? a judge on the high court trying to shield a disgraced former leader investigating a coup while the wife of that judge attacks the encity gators and promotes the lie that spurred the coup in the first place. what, if anything, can be done about it here? joining us is new yorker correspondent who has a must-read new piece at the new yorker titled, is ginni thomas a threat? it's a stunning piece. you quote a law professor, an expert who said the appearance created is awful. they look like a mom and pop political hack group where she does the political stuff and he does the judging. now, a lot of you at home might say, yeah, she's am. she says draez things. her husband shouldn't be responsible for her views and she shouldn't be stopped from activism because of her husbands job? >> i understand the argument and tone think wifes should be able to have separate careers from their husbands. but there is something else that's really important. it's what struck me when i was doing this reporting. which is she is involved in substantial ways in leadership roles with groups and activists who have business in front of her husband's court. she is not just taking a separate role and -- >> i think we lost there in the an interesting answer about ginni thomas. we will see if we can get her back. she's done conflicts of interest involving ginni thomas. we are hearing, we are not getting her back right now. we will take a break, check with the technical gremlins. stay with us for more stories. we're discovering together... it's been an amazing gift. if you have this... consider adding this. an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesn't... and let you see any doctor. any specialist. anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients. so if you have this... consider adding this. call unitedhealthcare today for your free decision guide. ♪ . we were just speaking with the forker's chief correspondent about her fascinating new look into ginni thomas wife of clarence thomas, she found all sorts of interesting moments, including around the time of brett kavanaugh's, she said her adversaries were trying to kill people and drew applause saying may we have guns and conceal carry for what's coming. charming. jane mayer wrote that piece. we had a technical issue a moment ago. you were talking about the conflict of interest of some of the conservative groups she leads and her husband has in the court. one of the things in terms of conflict is the muslim ban if 2018, not because i am muslim, myself, clarence thomas uphead the muslim ban without revealing ginni was a paid consultant to one of the far right groups that submitted an amicus group if favor saying islam needs to be confronted. >> absolutely. she was paid a lot over two years, it was i think $234,000 in order to represent frank gaffney's group, the anti-mus lick activist. he submitted an amicus brief on the issue. clarence thomas heard the case. nobody mentioned she was being paid by one side in the case. if you look at clarence thomas' disclosures, you see no evidence of this whatsoever. the only way i found it was by having to look at the irs filings from the group frank gaffney runs. so it's, i mean, there are rules and they do apply to almost every judge in this country that say that if your spouse has an interest in the case, you need to recuse. if a reasonable person treats it as if there is an image of partiality, if it looks like the judge might have a conflict and can't be fair. he is supposed to step down. but that applies to only the lower courts, not to the supreme court because it holds itself above the ethics code that applies to the rest of this country. >> as you point out in your piece sanyo sotomayor, brett kavanaugh, stephen breyer, they've recuse themselves when family and friends come before the court. clarence thomas never recused himself from a group linked to ginni, his wife. were you surprised to see clarence thomas as the only justice opposed releasing trump's record weeks after his wife was publicing attacking the 1/6 committee? >> well, i think to me the issue that just that he's not judging issues fairly. he may be. it raises questions, at least, about whether he's favoring his wife's political activism and i think that that's dangerous as he said for himself in the court. you need to really look at that incredibly important court and to trust that it's doing its best whatever direction it comes friday logically to arrive at justice and have a fair decision and i think what the problem with ginni thomas' activism is, it's almost impossible at this point to see all the things that she is involved with that are in front of the court and not have some questions about whether it taints his point of view. >> well, a lot of us have questions about what ginni thomas was saying january 6th. she says she put those up before the violence kicked off. we were all wondering what her views are on january 6th, what, if anything, can be done to fix this issue? you can't force a justice to recuse themselves or forcibly remove them from the court. you can impeach them. according to your court you tried it once. are there any rules that can be changed? anything that can be done? >> there actually is quite a bit that can be done. there have been some efforts. there have been several bills proposed in congress to try to get the court to abide by a judicious code, an ethics code like the lower court. i think it's an issue that has a concern amount of traction. i think there is a lot of interest and bipartisan interest in it. i think there is also a good chance that after people have taken a close look at the financial issue involving ginni thomas, that they may close loopholes that have to do with disclosure. if really a supreme court justice' wife can be paid an unlimited amount of money by a secret client of some sort and it's not invisible. that's a problem. >> i think it's an understatement. it's a huge problem. it goes to the heart of our justice system. jane mayor, we appreciate your reporting on this. please do check out her latest piece on ginni thomas. thank you. >> thanks. >> now, to the headlines you may have seen this week about the board of elections in lincoln county, georgia, trying to close all but one of the county's seven polling places. this wednesday a group of activists hand signatures to locals opposed to the change of the county board of elections. they had been scheduled to vote that night. they arc you a single polling place may be more afford annual, lead to better-run elections and more ada accessible. the activists argue a single polling place would mean some county residents have to drive 20 miles out of the way to cast a ballot. the board was supposed to close on that issue wednesday night. because of these petitions, that vote never happened. now these may sound like a lot of stories you heard before. democrats fighting the local elections officials for the right to vote. but check this out. lincoln county is approximately 70% white and cast 60% of the votes for donald trump in 2020. they went door-to-door to make sure it doesn't get harder for anyone to vote in lincoln county. they are not partisan big d democrats they are small d democrats, supporting democracy for everyone. nationally, though, we know that more than 1,688 polling places have been shuttered since the supreme court decision shall be the holder in 2013. that's when the supreme court gutted the voting rights act. 1,688 places closed. before that decision, georgia was one of nine states not allowed to change it's lex laws in ways that would negatively impact minority's voters without prior federal approval. in georgia, specifically, 10% of all polling locations have been closed across the state since that supreme court decision. just last year, the republican-controlled legislature in georgia passed major new restricting voting laws that made it harder to vote absentee or drop box, making physical polling places all the more important. which is part of why what this group did is so interesting. they fought back in a way that worked. legally in georgia, if you can get 20% of the registered voters in a voting district to sign a petition opposing the closing of a polling place, it must stay opened. this group of activists gathered enough signatures to meet that threshold for three of lincoln counties seven polling places. the board of elections is still verifying those signatures. as for now, they have successfully delayed the vote on this issue and may very well have saved them from being consolidated. joining us now is the reverend denise freeman, a lincoln county activist, a key leader in the 60 drive that succeeded in putting the plan to roll back the number of polling sites on hold. reverend, thank you so much for being here. can you help us understand logistically, practically, what it would mean for the residents of lincoln county to go from seven polling places to one. describe that challenge for us, please. >> reporter: we are a very long county, for instance, i am at the northern end of the county, which would be about 26-to-30 minutes just for the people on this end to go and vote into the new proposed pre sick. that is unfair to all of our residents in the northern end when we currently vote at mid-way, which is about eight or nine minutes from where we live. so, i don't understand why they would put this kind of situation when there is no legitimate reason to chosen a precincts in 2022. we should interest affording people more access to the voting process fought decreasing it with senate bill 202, that's exactly what happened on senate bill 282 and 283. it's like the people who are in power want to secure their power and control by making it harder for people to access the voting precincts and that's just not fair nor is it right. so we have to do everything we can to stop this and we have and we hope that this works. that's our prayer. >> so in terms of trying to stop a lot of media coverage made it out an issue for democrats. from the local level it seems less partisan than that. are there republicans in your committee that don't want these polling places to close? >> yes. we've heard from citizens of both parties and some even signed the petitions and they, too, want access in their own communities. they want to keep their polling places opened. people in this community does not work in this community. we have people who work in athens, georgia, augusta, georgia and south carolina. because there is no jobs in lincolnton or lincoln county, georgia. so by the time they make it back to this county to vote they can get to their local polls, but to drive an additional 12, 15 miles, just to vote in one precinct in the city of lincolnton is just, it's unreal. it's unfair. it's not right. >> we spoke with the board of elections today. they believe this petition wasn't necessary. they said they held public hearings on the issue and september letters to every household and didn't hear opposition. democrats involved in closing down these polling places. what do you make of that response from them? >> well, the first thing, they did not send notification to every voter in the county. what they did was send letters to every property owner in the county and we have people that own property throughout several states across the united states. i, mile, did not get a letter. so and i've talked to many, many citizens in this county, black, white, republican, democrats who say they didn't get letters either. so, you know, this is not a partisan issue. this is a humor issue. this is an issue that everyone should 'afforded the luxury of voting. >> well said. we appreciate you coming on the show reverend denise freeman. we have to leave it there. thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you for having me. god bless you. >> more to come here tonight including a blatant display of republican hypocrisy and high stakes display from a top diplomat which can head off the biggest land war since world war ii. stay with us. . let's keep talking. that appears to be the take-away message after yet another round of diplomatic talks between the u.s. and russia over escalating tensions at ukraine's border, today secretary of state anthony blinken and his counterpart sergei lavrov held a 90-minute meeting with no path forward. he said they would be met with a swift, severe response, lavrov denied a massive response was a prelude to an invasion. russia completedly said it wants them to roll back the military presence and not make them a part of the alliance. they will respond next week in writing. in the meantime, they will keep talking. today's latest high-stakes meeting comes from ukraine's military intelligence service russia is sending mercenaries into rebel-held territories in eastern ukraine. the u.s. is responding to russia's buildup giving baltic states, lithuania and latvia approval to send lethal weapons to ukraine. tonight we are getting images of that aid bind authorized for ukraine. this was tweeted out kyev. efforts to reach a diplomatic preview, today we got a glimpse if they fail. this foreign op-ed entitled the day after russia attacks. what war in ukraine would look like and how america should respond. it will be significantly more challenging for u.s. national security. walk should assume the worst, plan accordingly, leveling all elements of power. the biden administration must avoid a one-on-one military conflict. no task is more important. joining us now is the co-author of that op-ed, retired colonel alexander vindman, a former director of the council and author of the "new york times" best seller, here right matters, director of the initiative. thank you for joining me. people say the biden threat of sanctions against putin and his underlinks won't work, sanctions aren't good enough. you write in your piece, that's not necessarily the case. previously explain why. >> well, actually, i don't think the sangs are necessarily going to be, sanctions by themselves will in the be a sufficient term. the fact is they are reactionary. they'll snap into effect potentially after russia's incursion. even then, there is probably going to be a deliberation. right now the diplomatic effort under way with our allies is to make sure we're on the same page. this if they don't completely align, most of the sanctions will be consistent between the alliance structure. but by itself, that's not financial to be sufficient. the russians have built a massive $630 billion war chest to weather sanctions. it's going to take some coercive diplomacy on the part of the u.s., the posturing of u.s. forces in europe to deter russian aggression and with the provision of additional lethal aid. and even then it's probably too late to have a significant effect. i think we're all but locked in on this confrontation. >> so in your foreign affairs piece you also participate that pretty stark and scary picture of what a full-scale russian ground and sea offensive in ukraine might look like and lead to. you say it could, quote, inflict tens of thousands of casualties and trigger a humanitarian catastrophe. given that scenario and given there is no military solution that prevents that scenario, why not stop it from happening by saying ukraine won't join nato anytime soon, which let's be honest, it won't, and getting putin to back off and avoid a full-blown war. >> first of all, i think there's a merit to discussing this idea, but i don't think that even the fact that the u.s. says that ukraine can't join nato is not going to be sufficient. it doesn't change the dynamic on the ground between russia and ukraine. ukraine continues to make progress on its path toward democracy, continues to pose a viable alternative to the russian model. on that basis that's why vladimir putin's acting. i think there's something to be said about this idea of whether the u.s. could unilaterally make this decision and roll back the clock on really many, many decades of idea that countries could determine their own path. it's this concept of self-determination. there have been numerous international agreements including the u.n. charter that indicates countries should be able to choose their own path. whether nato joins is a different story, but i think that's just a signal. if we say they can't join, that's just a signal that putin has a free hand in ukraine. >> yeah, so you're saying the sanctions won't necessarily work. offering no ukraine membership of nato won't work. joe biden is saying there's no way troops will get involved, not american troops. where does that leave us? >> that leaves us with very few options. i think the things that can work are notions this is not the opportunity that vladimir putin thought it was when he started to build up these forces. and those notions are closed off by really locking in this idea of very, very severe consequences. there's a bill in congress right now by senator menendez that is wide ranging. it covers sanctions, provisions of military aid even covers a concept of lend-lease where the ukrainians could acquire equipment more high end. those will change -- start to on the margins change russian calculus. there's something to be done with regards to force posture in europe. we're going to need that anyway. once this occurs there's going to be a flood of refugees. our allies are going to demand some security. and clear indications article 5 actually holds. and all these things together may still have an effect. >> we're out of time, but one thing i would like to see happen, god forbid, if people start fleeing ukraine is a lot of the western countries that care so much about ukrainian lives let's see if our government and other countries will open their borders to ukrainian refugees. thanks for your analysis. appreciate it. we have just one more story to get to tonight. and the sheer republican hypocrisy may shock you or it may not. either way you need to hear this. stay with us. either way you need toricidin ps powerful cold relief without raising your blood pressure be there for life's best moments with coricidin. now in sugar free liquid. i may be close to reti hear this stay with us and thanks to voya, i'm confident about my future. voya provides guidance for the right investments. they make me feel like i've got it all under control. voya. be confident to and through retirement. age is just a number. and mine's 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[upbeat acoustic music throughout] [upbeat acoustic music throughout] boost® high protein also has key nutrients >> vo: my car is my after-work decompression zone. ♪ music ♪ >> vo: so when my windshield broke... i found the experts at safelite autoglass. they have exclusive technology and service i can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ new year, new start. and now comcast business is making it easy to get going with the ready. set. save. sale. get started with fast and reliable internet and voice for $64.99 a month with a 2-year price guarantee. it's easy... with flexible installation and backing from an expert team, 24/7. and for even more value, ask how to get up to a $500 prepaid card. get a great deal for your business with the ready. set. save. sale today. comcast business. powering possibilities. we talk a lot about how we are at unprecedented political times on this show. but some aspects of our current politics are as reliable and as shameless as ever. here, for example, is a statement from republican iowa congresswoman ashley hin stn. quote, this landmark investment will be game changing for iowans and communities along the mississippi river. she's talking about a $829 million federal investment from president biden's bipartisan infrastructure package that passed late last year, an investment that benefits her district. she goes on that's why i helped lead a bipartisan group of my colleagues in urging the administration to prioritize funding for these essential up grades. there is one problem with this statement. republican congresswoman ashley hinten you will be shocked to hear voted against the bipartisan infrastructure package. in fact, she was loudly, proudly against it. this is another one of her press releases a few days after that bill passed in november. it calls the bill the biggest leap towards socialism this nation has ever seen. so which one is it, congresswoman? is this bill marxm come to life or a game changing investment for iowans? this week republican congresswoman cay granger of texas put out a statement praising a $403 million federal investment in her district made possible because of the bipartisan infrastructure bill. she calls it a great day for fort worth and says the investment will make fort worth safer and stronger and she also voted against the bill. in fact on the day it passed granger put out a press release calling it a so-called infrastructure bill that was radical spending on a liberal wish list. now, these members of congress aren't the first or only examples of republicans taking credit for stuff on the bipartisan infrastructure package they voted against. alabama congressman gary palmer was in fact first. he took credit for the chunk of the bill that would benefit his home state the day biden signed, it literally ten days after he had just voted against it. as we now start to see the project in the bill go from lines of texts to actual broken ground and construction get ready to see a lot more of this hypocrisy. so the next time you see a congress person taking credit for a big piece of infrastructure near you especially if they're a republican it might be wise to just double-check how they voted. i'm just saying. that does it for us tonight. rachel you'll be delighted to hear will be back on monday. and i hope to see you sunday night for my show at 8:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. now it's time for the "last word." good evening, jonathan. >> good evening. i'm just saying you did a great job for your debut at

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Transcripts For MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240709 : Comparemela.com

Transcripts For MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240709

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the state of georgia. in large part, because that is where donald trump's elections lies. reuters reported in detail threats and harassment against georgia secretary of state, brad raffensberger republicans and his wife after they refused to overtourn joe biden's win there, weeks after, the justice department announced it was launch ac task force, to threat to an official worker volunteer is a threat to democracy. well, it has been almost six months since that task force was announced. but today it filed its first charges. a texas man was indicted today for threatening election and government officials in georgia. he does not name the official this man threatened to killed, referring to them as officials the a, b and c, during the indictment, he posted a message to craigslist january last year titled georgia patriots, it's time to kill official a the chinese agent. $10,000. i guess the $10,000 he was offering to pay to have that official killed? he then goes on to talk about putting bullets in three georgia treasonous traitors. we are don't know who this man threatened. as for the weird stuff about one weird election official being a chinese act. obviously, there were all kind of conspiracy theories pushed about foreign kumpbts, including countries, including china and president trump accused brad raffensperger to hide the fraud because his brother worked for china. not only did brad raffensberger not have a brother that works for china. he does not have a brother. the justice department task force is going to task threatennings, the first charge should come out of georgia. georgia really has been ground zero for harassment of election workers. because it's been grounds zero for donald trump's company to overturn the election and undermine the elections for the next time around. i mean, this guy in texas didn't wake up one morning and decide he would ran domly kill election officials in georgia. he did not think of it on his own. a pressure campaign against elections officials has consequences. consequences that were warned about all the way back if december 2020 by georgia's top elections administrator, a republican. you may remember this moment. >> i am going to do my best to keep it together, because it has all gone to far. all of it. the fraud that broke the camel's back in this 20-year-old contract for a voting system company just trying to do his job. his family is getting harassed. there is a noose out there with his name on it. that's not right. this kid took a job. he just took a job. and it's just wrong. i can't begin to explain the level of averageer i have right now over this and every american many, republican and georgian alike should have that same level of anger. mr. president, it looks like you likely lost the state of georgia. we're investigating. there is always a possibility. i get it, you have the right to go to the court. you don't have the ability to do, you need to stop inspiring people who commit potentializing vie leps. someone is going to get hurt. someone is going to get shot. someone is going to get killed. it's not right. >> it was clear s. all the way back in december 2020 that the campaign of pressure and harassment against elections officials by donald trump and his allies, which were producing a campaign of threats and harassments against election officials by his supporters. no one has been killed and thank goodness. but elections work as officials in georgia and across the country are being terrorized and leaving their jobs in droves. we were reminded this week, it is not just those threats being investigated. trump's pressure campaign, itself, is very much under criminal investigation. the district attorney in fulton county, georgia this week moved to empanel a special grand jury in her investigation into trump's attempts to mess with the election in georgia. that investigation center can thes on that infamous phone call to brad raffensperger pressuring him to find more votes. if it's approved, it will issue subpoena for testimony in evidence. it wasn't just the georgia case potentially taking that big leap forward this week, this may have been the worst week of legal developments for donald trump, his family and his allies since he left office. this week also brought new allegations from new york's attorney general of possible fraud at trump's business a filing this week lays out the most detailed accusations yet of potentially fraudulent business practices at the trump organization. as attorney general james compels testimony from donald trump, his son don, jr. and daughter ivanka, suggesting her year's long investigation may be nearing it end. the january 6th investigation this week asked for testimony from ivanka trump in a letter that laid out in stunning detail how much the committee has learned about what was going on inside the oval office as rioters ransacked the capitol on january 6th and how little trump did to stop the violence. even as though around him, including his own daughter begged him to intervene. there were also damming development this is week on the fake elect tore scheme the scheme in which republicans in states joe biden won created and signed certificates asserting trump had won their states and sent these fake slates of selectors to congress. there were multiple reports this week this plot was pushed and coordinated directly by the trump campaign, specifically by, who else, rudy guiliani. that comes as officials in multiple states this week announced investigations or criminal referrals related to that scheme, suggesting there could ultimately be criminal charges for those involved for forgery or other related crimes. one democratic congressman from wisconsin today asked tomorrow merrick garland to look into the matter. speaking of rudy guiliani tonight thousands of his documents were turned over to people investigating his dealings in ukraine. it's hard to keep up. all of that doesn't cover what may have been donald trump's biggest loss this week, (handing) over hundreds of white house records to the january 6th investigation. trump had been fighting it for month. but now those records have been delivered to the investigators. and oh boy, the first document we have gotten a look at is a doozy. it is a draft executive order turned over from the files of a white house lawyer that would have ordered the defense secretary to seize voting machines. this never issued executive order says the defense secretary must seize all the voting machines because all the voting machines companies were infiltrated by foreign powers who changed all the vote totals and made it seem like trump lost. which is, of course, stunning. but also can i just say at the end of a week in which republicans have been relentlessly hammering democrats over the voting rights bill calling it a federal takeover of elections. here is evidence of donald trump considering an actual federal takeover of elections and election machines. look, to be clear, a lot of this draft executive order is written in language that does not bear resemblance to anything like an actual presidential order. they point out the on of the document cites a number of presidential authorities, including a classified document that has not been previously reported on, which may suggest that someone involved in drafting the document had access to sensitive government information. that said, we do not know two drafted it nor how seriously it has been considered. what has been previously reported is some proposal like this was debated in the oval office december 18th, 2020. this document is dated the 16th of december. but this is only the first trump white house record we've seen turned over to the january 6th investigation. what on earth are they going to turn up? joining us now is congressman pete aguilar, a democrat from california, a member of the january 6th investigation. congressman, thank you for joining us this evening. much to discuss this draft executive order obtained by politico would have directed the secretary of defense of the united states to seize voting machines. this is in line with proposals, we know that sydney kraken powell presented to trump in 2020. what do you make? does the committee have any lead who might have dropped this document? >> well, these types of things are absolutely dangerous and scary to think that the former administration had actually gone to these steps and these lengths. i'm not if him to talk about specific documents that we received. but i will say that we received hundreds of pages of documents from the archives that are responsive to the supreme court decision in which the former president lost. and so we continue to go over that production. but what i can tell you is that these documents will prove fruitful and helpful to aid in our investigation to shine a clear light on what happened leading up to january 6th. it will give us more insight into what we have already learned through depositions, interviews as well as public reporting and sourcing outside of that. this is incredibly helpful to our effort. but it is dangerous and scary what the prior administration was planning. >> i often pull back on that quote, what would you say if you saw this in another country. the committee now has in its possession all 700-plus pages trump tried to shield from your committee. how does your committee plan to scrutinize the documents and will the public see them in shorter order? chairman ben benny thompson said we might see them? >> at some point we will cite some in public hearings as well as in a final report that we produce and upon the conclusion of that additional items may 'made public. but what i can tell you is that we do plan on turning the page from the investigative side to more public hearings in the future so that's where we will continue to be able to share with the public exactly what we have learned, what the prior administration was doing to thwart and undercut a free and fair election all of the effort and where they originated, in the white house, how they tried to use the department of justice, all of these efforts that we know and have been out in the public and these documents and what we continue to learn will serve as the connective tissue to a lot of that. >> maybe i can speak for a lot of viewers of this show when i say there is a lot of us waiting to see these public hearings. congressman, turning to the fraudulent electors. you called the submission of a fraudulent document, quote, a dangerous precedent. the committee is reportedly looking into that, coordinated effort by trump allies in these five states. has the committee reached out to any of these fraudulent actors yet? if not, are there plans to do so? >> we've had conversations with different states, elections officials and we have had conversations with some of these, with individuals in these contested states. but i'm not going to talk about who we have interviewed and had discussions with. but we aren't just focusing on washington, d.c. beltway. we have gone out into the state, have conversations that will be help. and fruitful to our efforts. >> is it bizarre in a week where the republicans rejected all of your voting rights bills in the senate dulaimiing that this is a democratic party federal takeover of elections, we are seeing the republican body at the state level, the federal government allegedly, the donald trump federal government allegedly trying to direct republicans to overturn state's slates of electors. the irony is pretty rich? >> and the silence is deafening, right, from some of my republican colleagues to date. while they continue to talk about our efforts to expand the voting rights act, which, by the way, was passed in a unanimous way 15 years ago in the senate, so those types of ironies aren't lost on a lot of us who continue to stand for free and fair elections and wanting to make sure that everybody legally can possible does have that object to and in each of these states, all of the efforts are lost that they continue to put in the way of people exercising the franchise and their right to vote. >> congressman, your committee colleague congressman adam schiff said the committee has not made a subpoena decision yet in subpoenaing ivanka trump. how long will the committee wait for a response before making a decision to subpoena her? >> i'm not aware of a response from ivanka trump and like my colleague said, chairman schiff said, we haven't made any decisions yet. but what we do know from our other interviews and from public reporting is is that ivanka trump was there in the room with the former president as a lot of this was happening as well as during the conversations within the former president called the vice president pence to continue the pressure campaign up until the morning of january 6th. so she heard at least one side of that conversation. and so we feel that she has something to share. we feel that will help aid in our efforts. if someone was truly concerned about protecting democracy they would come before our except willingly and voluntarily. so we haven't heard anything yet from her to date, though. >> i can say quite confidently without hearing about her at a public hearing, she's not really interested in saving democracy. that's just my view. congressman pete aguilar, member of the january 6th committee. thank you for your time tonight. >> thanks. >> up next, listening to your spouse is important. what if your spouse is an extremist that spouts conspiracy theorists and you are a united states supreme court justice, what do you do then? more on that next. justice, justice, what do yo [bacon sizzles] ♪ [electronic music plays] ♪ more on that next. woo! are you one of the millions of americans who experience occasional bloating, gas or abdominal discomfort? taking align can help. align contains a quality probiotic to naturally help soothe digestive upsets 24/7. try align, the pros in digestive health. and join the align healthy gut team up and learn what millions of align users already know. how great a healthy gut can feel. sign up at alignprobiotics.com also try align dualbiotics gummies to help support digestive health. as a professional bull-rider i'm used to taking chances. but when it comes to my insurance i don't. i use liberty mutual, they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. wooo, yeaa, woooooo and, by switching you could even save 665 dollars. hey tex, can someone else get a turn? yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. yeah. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪ growing up, bilal was obsessed, obsessed with superman! not because he could fly, but because superman stood up for people. maybe it's because of our family's own immigrant story, or he's just that nerdy. throughout his career in the obama administration and the private sector, bilal has never stopped helping others. we don't need a superhero to solve san francisco's biggest problems like crime and homelessness, just the innovation and courage to lead. join me. . all right. what i'm about to show you now is a social media post shared by a prominent conservative activist just before the 2020 election. it shows hillary clinton, house speaker nancy pelosi and vice presidential candidate kamala harris all shaking hands with people reportedly to be family members of george sore office. we blurred their faces. it's a classic example of the anti-semitic theory that he is a puppet mast tore party politicianles. who is running the porte party? ...the sore soros family carrying on his illegal legacy before insurrectionists stormed the u.s. capitol. watch maga crowd today best with breitbart and love mag that people and a little later on january 6th same conservative activist posted again, quote, god bless each of you, standing up or praying!" you mate' say it's the broempgs we had to get used to in recent years it might have been posted by mike flynn or the my pillow buy the or qanon charm shawman. it wasn't, it was posted by the wife of clarence thomas, for decades before her husband was on the supreme court, she has been active in the fringier partsdz of the trump era. she ratcheted up a notch about leftist cues, mocking victims of school shootings and of course making baseless claims about democrats stealing elections. you might be saying, so what, sure, that all sounds nothing lots of people post strange things. it doesn't necessarily mean their spouses post things as well. last year "the washington post" first reported ginny thomas was active in an online forum of former law clerks of him and they report she fought about trump's election loss alongside the lawyer john eastman. imagine that you are one of the few people to get the prestigious just job and the boss' wife is berating you about trump losing the expand she's attacked the january 6th investigation and challenging them for their participation in it. as her husband sits on the court weighing decisions about that very investigation. which is why no one should interest surprised to hand his records ever earlier this week and the one justice who sided the trump in that situation was, drum rom, clarence thomas. what would you say if you saw this in another country? a judge on the high court trying to shield a disgraced former leader investigating a coup while the wife of that judge attacks the encity gators and promotes the lie that spurred the coup in the first place. what, if anything, can be done about it here? joining us is new yorker correspondent who has a must-read new piece at the new yorker titled, is ginni thomas a threat? it's a stunning piece. you quote a law professor, an expert who said the appearance created is awful. they look like a mom and pop political hack group where she does the political stuff and he does the judging. now, a lot of you at home might say, yeah, she's am. she says draez things. her husband shouldn't be responsible for her views and she shouldn't be stopped from activism because of her husbands job? >> i understand the argument and tone think wifes should be able to have separate careers from their husbands. but there is something else that's really important. it's what struck me when i was doing this reporting. which is she is involved in substantial ways in leadership roles with groups and activists who have business in front of her husband's court. she is not just taking a separate role and -- >> i think we lost there in the an interesting answer about ginni thomas. we will see if we can get her back. she's done conflicts of interest involving ginni thomas. we are hearing, we are not getting her back right now. we will take a break, check with the technical gremlins. stay with us for more stories. we're discovering together... it's been an amazing gift. if you have this... consider adding this. an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesn't... and let you see any doctor. any specialist. anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients. so if you have this... consider adding this. call unitedhealthcare today for your free decision guide. ♪ . we were just speaking with the forker's chief correspondent about her fascinating new look into ginni thomas wife of clarence thomas, she found all sorts of interesting moments, including around the time of brett kavanaugh's, she said her adversaries were trying to kill people and drew applause saying may we have guns and conceal carry for what's coming. charming. jane mayer wrote that piece. we had a technical issue a moment ago. you were talking about the conflict of interest of some of the conservative groups she leads and her husband has in the court. one of the things in terms of conflict is the muslim ban if 2018, not because i am muslim, myself, clarence thomas uphead the muslim ban without revealing ginni was a paid consultant to one of the far right groups that submitted an amicus group if favor saying islam needs to be confronted. >> absolutely. she was paid a lot over two years, it was i think $234,000 in order to represent frank gaffney's group, the anti-mus lick activist. he submitted an amicus brief on the issue. clarence thomas heard the case. nobody mentioned she was being paid by one side in the case. if you look at clarence thomas' disclosures, you see no evidence of this whatsoever. the only way i found it was by having to look at the irs filings from the group frank gaffney runs. so it's, i mean, there are rules and they do apply to almost every judge in this country that say that if your spouse has an interest in the case, you need to recuse. if a reasonable person treats it as if there is an image of partiality, if it looks like the judge might have a conflict and can't be fair. he is supposed to step down. but that applies to only the lower courts, not to the supreme court because it holds itself above the ethics code that applies to the rest of this country. >> as you point out in your piece sanyo sotomayor, brett kavanaugh, stephen breyer, they've recuse themselves when family and friends come before the court. clarence thomas never recused himself from a group linked to ginni, his wife. were you surprised to see clarence thomas as the only justice opposed releasing trump's record weeks after his wife was publicing attacking the 1/6 committee? >> well, i think to me the issue that just that he's not judging issues fairly. he may be. it raises questions, at least, about whether he's favoring his wife's political activism and i think that that's dangerous as he said for himself in the court. you need to really look at that incredibly important court and to trust that it's doing its best whatever direction it comes friday logically to arrive at justice and have a fair decision and i think what the problem with ginni thomas' activism is, it's almost impossible at this point to see all the things that she is involved with that are in front of the court and not have some questions about whether it taints his point of view. >> well, a lot of us have questions about what ginni thomas was saying january 6th. she says she put those up before the violence kicked off. we were all wondering what her views are on january 6th, what, if anything, can be done to fix this issue? you can't force a justice to recuse themselves or forcibly remove them from the court. you can impeach them. according to your court you tried it once. are there any rules that can be changed? anything that can be done? >> there actually is quite a bit that can be done. there have been some efforts. there have been several bills proposed in congress to try to get the court to abide by a judicious code, an ethics code like the lower court. i think it's an issue that has a concern amount of traction. i think there is a lot of interest and bipartisan interest in it. i think there is also a good chance that after people have taken a close look at the financial issue involving ginni thomas, that they may close loopholes that have to do with disclosure. if really a supreme court justice' wife can be paid an unlimited amount of money by a secret client of some sort and it's not invisible. that's a problem. >> i think it's an understatement. it's a huge problem. it goes to the heart of our justice system. jane mayor, we appreciate your reporting on this. please do check out her latest piece on ginni thomas. thank you. >> thanks. >> now, to the headlines you may have seen this week about the board of elections in lincoln county, georgia, trying to close all but one of the county's seven polling places. this wednesday a group of activists hand signatures to locals opposed to the change of the county board of elections. they had been scheduled to vote that night. they arc you a single polling place may be more afford annual, lead to better-run elections and more ada accessible. the activists argue a single polling place would mean some county residents have to drive 20 miles out of the way to cast a ballot. the board was supposed to close on that issue wednesday night. because of these petitions, that vote never happened. now these may sound like a lot of stories you heard before. democrats fighting the local elections officials for the right to vote. but check this out. lincoln county is approximately 70% white and cast 60% of the votes for donald trump in 2020. they went door-to-door to make sure it doesn't get harder for anyone to vote in lincoln county. they are not partisan big d democrats they are small d democrats, supporting democracy for everyone. nationally, though, we know that more than 1,688 polling places have been shuttered since the supreme court decision shall be the holder in 2013. that's when the supreme court gutted the voting rights act. 1,688 places closed. before that decision, georgia was one of nine states not allowed to change it's lex laws in ways that would negatively impact minority's voters without prior federal approval. in georgia, specifically, 10% of all polling locations have been closed across the state since that supreme court decision. just last year, the republican-controlled legislature in georgia passed major new restricting voting laws that made it harder to vote absentee or drop box, making physical polling places all the more important. which is part of why what this group did is so interesting. they fought back in a way that worked. legally in georgia, if you can get 20% of the registered voters in a voting district to sign a petition opposing the closing of a polling place, it must stay opened. this group of activists gathered enough signatures to meet that threshold for three of lincoln counties seven polling places. the board of elections is still verifying those signatures. as for now, they have successfully delayed the vote on this issue and may very well have saved them from being consolidated. joining us now is the reverend denise freeman, a lincoln county activist, a key leader in the 60 drive that succeeded in putting the plan to roll back the number of polling sites on hold. reverend, thank you so much for being here. can you help us understand logistically, practically, what it would mean for the residents of lincoln county to go from seven polling places to one. describe that challenge for us, please. >> reporter: we are a very long county, for instance, i am at the northern end of the county, which would be about 26-to-30 minutes just for the people on this end to go and vote into the new proposed pre sick. that is unfair to all of our residents in the northern end when we currently vote at mid-way, which is about eight or nine minutes from where we live. so, i don't understand why they would put this kind of situation when there is no legitimate reason to chosen a precincts in 2022. we should interest affording people more access to the voting process fought decreasing it with senate bill 202, that's exactly what happened on senate bill 282 and 283. it's like the people who are in power want to secure their power and control by making it harder for people to access the voting precincts and that's just not fair nor is it right. so we have to do everything we can to stop this and we have and we hope that this works. that's our prayer. >> so in terms of trying to stop a lot of media coverage made it out an issue for democrats. from the local level it seems less partisan than that. are there republicans in your committee that don't want these polling places to close? >> yes. we've heard from citizens of both parties and some even signed the petitions and they, too, want access in their own communities. they want to keep their polling places opened. people in this community does not work in this community. we have people who work in athens, georgia, augusta, georgia and south carolina. because there is no jobs in lincolnton or lincoln county, georgia. so by the time they make it back to this county to vote they can get to their local polls, but to drive an additional 12, 15 miles, just to vote in one precinct in the city of lincolnton is just, it's unreal. it's unfair. it's not right. >> we spoke with the board of elections today. they believe this petition wasn't necessary. they said they held public hearings on the issue and september letters to every household and didn't hear opposition. democrats involved in closing down these polling places. what do you make of that response from them? >> well, the first thing, they did not send notification to every voter in the county. what they did was send letters to every property owner in the county and we have people that own property throughout several states across the united states. i, mile, did not get a letter. so and i've talked to many, many citizens in this county, black, white, republican, democrats who say they didn't get letters either. so, you know, this is not a partisan issue. this is a humor issue. this is an issue that everyone should 'afforded the luxury of voting. >> well said. we appreciate you coming on the show reverend denise freeman. we have to leave it there. thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you for having me. god bless you. >> more to come here tonight including a blatant display of republican hypocrisy and high stakes display from a top diplomat which can head off the biggest land war since world war ii. stay with us. . let's keep talking. that appears to be the take-away message after yet another round of diplomatic talks between the u.s. and russia over escalating tensions at ukraine's border, today secretary of state anthony blinken and his counterpart sergei lavrov held a 90-minute meeting with no path forward. he said they would be met with a swift, severe response, lavrov denied a massive response was a prelude to an invasion. russia completedly said it wants them to roll back the military presence and not make them a part of the alliance. they will respond next week in writing. in the meantime, they will keep talking. today's latest high-stakes meeting comes from ukraine's military intelligence service russia is sending mercenaries into rebel-held territories in eastern ukraine. the u.s. is responding to russia's buildup giving baltic states, lithuania and latvia approval to send lethal weapons to ukraine. tonight we are getting images of that aid bind authorized for ukraine. this was tweeted out kyev. efforts to reach a diplomatic preview, today we got a glimpse if they fail. this foreign op-ed entitled the day after russia attacks. what war in ukraine would look like and how america should respond. it will be significantly more challenging for u.s. national security. walk should assume the worst, plan accordingly, leveling all elements of power. the biden administration must avoid a one-on-one military conflict. no task is more important. joining us now is the co-author of that op-ed, retired colonel alexander vindman, a former director of the council and author of the "new york times" best seller, here right matters, director of the initiative. thank you for joining me. people say the biden threat of sanctions against putin and his underlinks won't work, sanctions aren't good enough. you write in your piece, that's not necessarily the case. previously explain why. >> well, actually, i don't think the sangs are necessarily going to be, sanctions by themselves will in the be a sufficient term. the fact is they are reactionary. they'll snap into effect potentially after russia's incursion. even then, there is probably going to be a deliberation. right now the diplomatic effort under way with our allies is to make sure we're on the same page. this if they don't completely align, most of the sanctions will be consistent between the alliance structure. but by itself, that's not financial to be sufficient. the russians have built a massive $630 billion war chest to weather sanctions. it's going to take some coercive diplomacy on the part of the u.s., the posturing of u.s. forces in europe to deter russian aggression and with the provision of additional lethal aid. and even then it's probably too late to have a significant effect. i think we're all but locked in on this confrontation. >> so in your foreign affairs piece you also participate that pretty stark and scary picture of what a full-scale russian ground and sea offensive in ukraine might look like and lead to. you say it could, quote, inflict tens of thousands of casualties and trigger a humanitarian catastrophe. given that scenario and given there is no military solution that prevents that scenario, why not stop it from happening by saying ukraine won't join nato anytime soon, which let's be honest, it won't, and getting putin to back off and avoid a full-blown war. >> first of all, i think there's a merit to discussing this idea, but i don't think that even the fact that the u.s. says that ukraine can't join nato is not going to be sufficient. it doesn't change the dynamic on the ground between russia and ukraine. ukraine continues to make progress on its path toward democracy, continues to pose a viable alternative to the russian model. on that basis that's why vladimir putin's acting. i think there's something to be said about this idea of whether the u.s. could unilaterally make this decision and roll back the clock on really many, many decades of idea that countries could determine their own path. it's this concept of self-determination. there have been numerous international agreements including the u.n. charter that indicates countries should be able to choose their own path. whether nato joins is a different story, but i think that's just a signal. if we say they can't join, that's just a signal that putin has a free hand in ukraine. >> yeah, so you're saying the sanctions won't necessarily work. offering no ukraine membership of nato won't work. joe biden is saying there's no way troops will get involved, not american troops. where does that leave us? >> that leaves us with very few options. i think the things that can work are notions this is not the opportunity that vladimir putin thought it was when he started to build up these forces. and those notions are closed off by really locking in this idea of very, very severe consequences. there's a bill in congress right now by senator menendez that is wide ranging. it covers sanctions, provisions of military aid even covers a concept of lend-lease where the ukrainians could acquire equipment more high end. those will change -- start to on the margins change russian calculus. there's something to be done with regards to force posture in europe. we're going to need that anyway. once this occurs there's going to be a flood of refugees. our allies are going to demand some security. and clear indications article 5 actually holds. and all these things together may still have an effect. >> we're out of time, but one thing i would like to see happen, god forbid, if people start fleeing ukraine is a lot of the western countries that care so much about ukrainian lives let's see if our government and other countries will open their borders to ukrainian refugees. thanks for your analysis. appreciate it. we have just one more story to get to tonight. and the sheer republican hypocrisy may shock you or it may not. either way you need to hear this. stay with us. either way you need toricidin ps powerful cold relief without raising your blood pressure be there for life's best moments with coricidin. now in sugar free liquid. i may be close to reti hear this stay with us and thanks to voya, i'm confident about my future. voya provides guidance for the right investments. they make me feel like i've got it all under control. voya. be confident to and through retirement. age is just a number. and mine's 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[upbeat acoustic music throughout] [upbeat acoustic music throughout] boost® high protein also has key nutrients >> vo: my car is my after-work decompression zone. ♪ music ♪ >> vo: so when my windshield broke... i found the experts at safelite autoglass. they have exclusive technology and service i can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ new year, new start. and now comcast business is making it easy to get going with the ready. set. save. sale. get started with fast and reliable internet and voice for $64.99 a month with a 2-year price guarantee. it's easy... with flexible installation and backing from an expert team, 24/7. and for even more value, ask how to get up to a $500 prepaid card. get a great deal for your business with the ready. set. save. sale today. comcast business. powering possibilities. we talk a lot about how we are at unprecedented political times on this show. but some aspects of our current politics are as reliable and as shameless as ever. here, for example, is a statement from republican iowa congresswoman ashley hin stn. quote, this landmark investment will be game changing for iowans and communities along the mississippi river. she's talking about a $829 million federal investment from president biden's bipartisan infrastructure package that passed late last year, an investment that benefits her district. she goes on that's why i helped lead a bipartisan group of my colleagues in urging the administration to prioritize funding for these essential up grades. there is one problem with this statement. republican congresswoman ashley hinten you will be shocked to hear voted against the bipartisan infrastructure package. in fact, she was loudly, proudly against it. this is another one of her press releases a few days after that bill passed in november. it calls the bill the biggest leap towards socialism this nation has ever seen. so which one is it, congresswoman? is this bill marxm come to life or a game changing investment for iowans? this week republican congresswoman cay granger of texas put out a statement praising a $403 million federal investment in her district made possible because of the bipartisan infrastructure bill. she calls it a great day for fort worth and says the investment will make fort worth safer and stronger and she also voted against the bill. in fact on the day it passed granger put out a press release calling it a so-called infrastructure bill that was radical spending on a liberal wish list. now, these members of congress aren't the first or only examples of republicans taking credit for stuff on the bipartisan infrastructure package they voted against. alabama congressman gary palmer was in fact first. he took credit for the chunk of the bill that would benefit his home state the day biden signed, it literally ten days after he had just voted against it. as we now start to see the project in the bill go from lines of texts to actual broken ground and construction get ready to see a lot more of this hypocrisy. so the next time you see a congress person taking credit for a big piece of infrastructure near you especially if they're a republican it might be wise to just double-check how they voted. i'm just saying. that does it for us tonight. rachel you'll be delighted to hear will be back on monday. and i hope to see you sunday night for my show at 8:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. now it's time for the "last word." good evening, jonathan. >> good evening. i'm just saying you did a great job for your debut at

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