little bit, they're pulling a 180 saying they will stop tomorrow's planned 5g new yorker rollout across the country after top airline ceos warn of a potential cattastrophe forcing planes and passengers to stay on the ground. what we heard from president biden coming up and ahead the biggest carriers, alaska afrls will join us life, one on one in a minute. the debate before what will probably be defeat, senators on the floor now talking about those two voting rights bills, the ones seemed to be des tuned unless a last minute sales pitch works. democrats are meeting behind doors. we have our new reporting to try to sway senators kirsten and manchin, joining us is ed marky from massachusetts joining us live in a couple minutes. new reporting, dropping this afternoon, how a conspiracy theorist at the capitol insurrection found is way out of the qanon black hole. i'm hallie jackson, with you this afternoon. i want to bring in tom costello that we haves in all things transportation for us, kelly o'donnell that covers all things biden-related. let me start with you. listen, yet another development, it seems like you have been on the air reporting every hour. this one seems to be significant as we hear from verizon and at&t. they will hit the pause button for now. >> let's be clear, they're only pausing the rollout near airports, so 5g will roll out starting at midnight tonight. the bottom line issues, you had two, big, power. expensive industries going at each other. cell phones on the one hand, airlines on the other. they took tear cases to the media and the white house. it looks like at&t and verizon blinked. the major airlines as you know yesterday sent a letter to the white house saying they were very concerned about vaeft, very concerned about massive disruptions with hundreds of thousands of airlines passenger potentially affected starting as soon as tomorrow that catches people's attention. bottom line after the white house got involved, faa, sec, arm terroristing. verizon and at&t they they will voluntarily in their words, delay, defer or for now put on hold plans to go leave with the 5g sites around airports. the concern is the possibility 5g ground sites could interfere with a plane's altimeter, which provides precise altitude on a runway. if you can't use the altimeter in bad weather, you can't land. you got to go around, go to a different airport, have mass cancellation. that was the scenario the airlines' ceos were painting. how long will it be on hold? we don't the some reported as being too close to 5g towers, 80 airports right there, big hubs. will this be something that only lasts a few months, six months? we simply don't know. clearly, the faa and airline industry want more data and research into whatever there is only a onaltimeter sites. >> the ball is in some ways in the white house's court. we are hearing from the president late this afternoon. >> reporter: and powerful words in their simplicity for the president in a written statement said, i want to thank verizon and at&t for agreeing to take this step. that is powerful because it suggests that this is voluntary as tom was talking about, et it suggests the cooperation going on here. he says he believes the 5g is important. he supports that. he wants the parade of horribles brought to the white house's attention for all of those slowdowns, which don't just affect passengers. we seen how that can be a crisis when there are weather interruptions, but also all the goods that travel by air and we know the supply chain issues that have been a problem in recent months. so the cascading effect of this could have significant problems for the economy and the white house has to try to intervene when they know there could be problems. they can't always see woots the worse around the corner. here they were getting a little breathing spa is to deal with these concerns and bring together the parties and find a path forward. the "when" tom talked about is sa big question. >> yes. >> the tone from the white house says we know there are a lot of investments here, at the same time, thank you, thank you, is the message from the white house for taking this pause so that air travel and all the things that go along with it can keep moing while they try to intervene. you can't stop mother nature when a snowstorm is coming up. but a resolution in advance of what might have been a lot of travelers and people waiting for packages. >> thank you very much to both of you. i appreciate it. i want to bring in alaska airlines' ceo. good afternoon. >> nice to be here with you. >> let me start with your reaction we heard from verizon and at&t today. is this crisis averted? smr i am cautiously optimistic. it's good news, the regulator has to take this data and tell us all the airports we operate across the country are the safe to fly in as before. >> listen, a couple of questions for you on this. i hear you, you are not at the finish line yet. at&t made it clear this was a temporary solution. >> right. >> how long, what is the time line you are looking at this compromise we'll call it last? is it a matter of two months, two years? where are we on that spectrum? >> i think it's a key question. it rests on the faa to do this. they have to go airport by airport, runway by runway around do an analysis to clear these runways at airports so we can safely fly. just to remind you, the issue is these 5 isg antennas, the frequency they emit impacts the radio altimeters of airplanes. they're very close. the altimeters tell pilots how close the airplane is to the ground. the faa is being very cautious in doing the analysis and making sure we're safe because for our entire industry, safety is our number one priority. >> you talk about caution by the faa. you are right, the radio altimeters helps pilots land in conditions when it's really rainy at reagan behind me here in washington, what have you. at&t and verizon are saying listen 5g operates safely around the world if 40 countries. it will be no different here. do you believe this is an instance we're perhaps over cautioned by the faa or airlines, like, yourself? >> you know, i say the problem is complex. when you look at the three major variables as i learned more about this. you have exclusion zones around runways, power levels of the antennas. then have you the angles antennas. so i think the faa is trying to go airport by airport and actually runway by runway to see where these antennas are place. the power level, how is it pointed? making sure they're clear so there is a lot of work to be done. i think that's the analysis. i don't think it's an apples to apples to be honest. there is a little difference in every country. the issue is how much time will it take the faa to do the ale that sis. >> -- to do the analysis. >> you run a business. you have to do business model forecasting. what is it from your perspective? who is alaska airlines planning for on that front? >> what i seen in the last month a coming together of all major stakeholders, all the airlines in the country, boeing, airbus. the manufacturers of these altimeters, telecom companies, faa, we're all trying to come together to deploy 5g across the country. except at the airports and do what we feed to do in the next you know few months so that we can get this thing done. it may take less. it may take more. i don't know the exact answer to that question. i know there is a strong willingness to deploy 5g. i am encouraged, optimism. i'm at ctac. it can get pretty. >> harry on the weather situation there? 83? >> yeah, that's right, yeah. >> do you believe, we just heard from president biden on this, you might have heard my colleague reporting from the white house there. do you believe president bind has more of a role to play here? >> well, you know, i think this problem really needs the government to help resolve. i mean, you have the sec, the faa. i can tell you that all the airlines, airlines tore america, -- for america. we want to deploy 5g. we want to do it safely. i am encouraged to see the government step in and take a leadership role. i'll go back, i think there is sa path where we can deploy 5g and operate safely across the country. >> i have to ask, how did it get cut this close? you have, you talk about the government, the faa and sec in this showdown instead of looking for a unified response from the federal government. here we are less than four hours from this dead lines, do you think the government at this point dropped the ball a little? >> i think concerns were raised at least from the aviation industry two or three years ago about possible interference with these frequencies. i can tell you in the lyft month, there has just been a ton of work. i have seen boeing airbus, at the table, equipment manufacturers, the taa, the telecom companies. i can't speak a lot to the past. what i know is there is a lot of energy right now to resolve this problem so we get to a good place for everybody. >> so then looking ahead, are you pretty confident? are you quite confident people who want to fet a plane text you know for alaska airlines to take a trip somewhere in the next few months will be able to do that? there will not be these catastrophic consequences we heard of this week? >> i'm cautiously optimistic based on the news about an hour ago. what i'll say is, we need to get through the next 12 hours. there is still what we call, notifications to airmen that have to be issued so we can operate tomorrow and the day after. so there is a lot of work to be done. as we work together, i think we'll get to the right place. >> thank you so much for being with us on. i know it's a busy time. a lot of moving pieces. we really appreciate your assessment. thank you again. >> thank you. >> just mother nature in walk. right now on capitol hill, you got senators debating that voting rights package that seems des tuned for defeat, unless there is what would be a major and unexpected shift coming out of a closed-door meeting from senate democrats starting two hours from now. the focus is yet again on these two senators, senator joe mannequin and kyrsten sinema. and eugene daniels, an msnbc contributor. you got off one-on-one mitch mcconnell he called this fake hysteria on the filibuster, et cetera, by democrats, bring us up to speed. >> reporter: yeah, i did, he talked to me a couple brief minutes about this entire debate happening on the senate floor. he called senator kyrsten sinema and joe manchin two very courageous democrats. he has been praising them publicly and privately for their resistance to changing the senate rules. of course, republicans and leader mcconnell are opposed not just to the voting rights but changing the senate rules as well. he also told me this is a winning issue for republicans. they think they're on the right side of this politically. although, he thinks they won't to to talk about it much further because the effort is likely to fail. that is the case, democrats are holding this meeting tonight, where they will talk about tear strategy. one thing is clear, they will hold the vote and the contents of the legislation, the voting right to vote act or the john lewis voting rights act and the freedom to vote act and once republicans block that, then democrats leader schumer has to decide if they're going to vote on changing the senate rules. my sources are telling me there is no plan yet. they do not know if they will hold those votes, what it would look like, what sort of rules they would change if the vote does happen. i am told by my sources there are ongoing conversations with senator joe manchin, senator sinema if they were to vote on rules changes, what would that look like? schumer has a change here, can he keep them united even though it won't pass voting rights legislation or will he divide his party and show voting rights legislation won't pass if they are able to change the senate rules. >> what are you hearing from sources that you are talking on the hill about next steps? >> yeah. i mean, one of the things we are reporting at politico is the talking filibuster is something we are continuing to care more about, making people stand up and talk for long periods of time. that's something democrats are talking behind the scenes. they all know that there is kind of no getting off the train as it standard currently, promises to advocates both publicly and privately. so they know that they have to do something. this is about showing folks they have the political will to take around try to defend voting rights. something we've seep over the last week or so from the white house point of view and from members of congress is talking about republicans more. talking more about how there are 50 republicans, the president continues to say she's absolving the 50 republicans of their duty here on voting rights. you are starting to see how they will fit into this argument that it's just nos kyrsten sinema and joe manchin that they want to do outside too much, but talking about these republicans, and when you talk about a plan from the white house' point of view, they are trying to say mum, very coy about what it looks like next. but i didn't have a senior white house official recently they don't want to announce publicly, they don't want to say to people, this is damned to fail. we have a plan b, vice president harris' team has been meeting ability what she's going to do next on this issue. no matter what happens this week. >> thank you both very much for that reporting fresh off the hymn. appreciate it. we're going to talk more about this with massachusetts senator ed markey when he joins me just ahead. later, new reporting. run with man's journey into and out of the qanon movement. plus if you were online, you might have seen the soft launch of the at-home covid test site in just a marky. al pneumonia >> for pneumococcal pneumonia. prevnar 20 is approved in adults to help prevent infections from 20 strains of the bacteria that cause pneumococcal pneumonia. in just one dose. even if you've already been vaccinated with another pneumonia vaccine, ask your doctor if prevnar 20 could help provide additional protection. don't get prevnar 20 if you've had a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine or its ingredients. adults with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects were pain and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, fatigue, headache, and joint pain. i want to be able to keep my plans. that's why i chose to get vaccinated with prevnar 20. because just one dose can help protect me from pneumococcal pneumonia. ask your doctor or pharmacist about getting vaccinated with prevnar 20 today. healthier starts when excuses end. what? 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[music: “you can get it if you really want” by jimmy cliff] hey lily, i need a new wireless plan for my business, but all my employees need something different. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this. your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, like asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. yeah i should've just led with that. with at&t business. you can pick the best plan for each employee and get the best deals on every smart phone. it's been nearly two years since the pandemic started. our students and teachers tried their best, but as a parent, i can tell you that nearly 18 months of remote learning was really hard. i'm so angry that instead of helping our kids get back in the classroom, the school board focused on renaming schools schools that weren't even open . please recall all three school board members now. for the sake of our kids, we can't wait one more day, never mind a whole year for a fresh start. here in washington. senate democrats are getting ready for what could be a pretty important back-door meeting. perhaps they're about to talk about this voting rights package and a move to change rules. joining us is democratic senator markey. brate to have you back on the show. good afternoon. >> great to be with you. >> level with me here, what will be said at 5:00 today that hasn't been said a thousand times before? >> again, we celebrated martin luther king day this week. and it is absolutely creating a moment in history, where we have to stand up as democrats and to fight for voting rights as mitch mcconnell said as recently as today, it's a winning issue for the republican party if they suppress black and brown voters across this country. if those voters don't get to the polls, the republicans are in a much better position to win elections. so we will be dealing with this issue. we need 60 votes to protect voting rights. we have 15 democrats ready to go. every democrat is ready to protect voting rights. we need ten republicans. we are can't find republicans to back voting rights, to stop the suppression of the votes in state after state, red state after red state where the state legislatures are making it more difficult for black and brown people to vote. it will be clear with the votes on the floor of the united states senate, we cannot find republicans in unbelievably 2022 willing to stand up to make sure that black and brown voters are not discriminated against at the polling places. >> you make the accurate point that republicans are unanimously opposed to this voting rights package that democrats are trying to get done. which means if you do want to get it done, democrats would have to change the rules, you would need all democrats to support that. you know that's where this issue s. we heard and i've heard behind the scenes discussion that there are more than just senators manchin and sinema that might oppose a rules change. are you confident that it's just those two who will defect from the democratic position? >> well, again, there are 14 republican who's have voted in the past to expand voting rights and we can't find them anymore. so it just comes down to democrats, unfortunately. and so we're going to work very hard, if we lose those votes tomorrow, we are hoping that this debate will touch something in republican senator's hearts that unleashes a historic perspective in terms of their commitment to voting rights. if it doesn't, we need to have a debate in my opinion on the filibuster. it's racist in its origin. it's racist in its intent and we have to ultimately have a vote on whether or not we repeal the filibuster so that we can pass voting rights without a single republican supporting it. which is a sad commentary on the state of the trump republican party in 2022. >> you are in some ways answering one of the questions i had for you, which issure support for a vote on the filibuster, on the rules change. it sounds like you do support that i wonder if you have any concerns showing your party is divide, not fully on board, because it would make senators manchin and sinema walk the plank a little bit? >> again, we should be clear here, senator manchin and sinema support voting rights. we have to make -- >> republicans issue is you can't get it done unless you got this rules change, that's what these two democrats and others don't support. >> i disagree with them in terms of the need to repeal the filibuster, but, ultimately, i think these next couple of days will highlight the republican party. they're going -- it's the plan to suppress black and brown votes in order to gain electoral advantage in 2022 and then to reelect donald trump in 2024 remember i think by the end of the debate tomorrow that is what is going to be crystal clear to the american people. >> before i let you go, i have to ask you what is developing at the border. the "new york times" is reporting russia has been emptying it's embassy in kiev. we haven't confirst degree murder that yet. do you have any information or confirmation that's been happening, senator? smr no, i don't know that. but i do know that putin is moving. but he has to understand there are going to be very serious consequence that are going to be imposed upon russia. not just by the united states but by all of our allies, if they make this move. it will not be greeted well. we will be backing the iranian people because what putin is trying to do. if he doesn't, if he doesn't, it is something that runs totally contrary to what the people of ukraine want to see happen. so, i'm ready to vote for the toughest possible sanctions against russia and to keep them on the box as long as possible if they take this step. he just has to know that that is what the price that the russian economy is going to pay for an indefinite period of time if they do this. >> it's an important point and conversation to have. senator markey, thank you for being with us on the show today. coming up next, the deteriorating relationship between donald trump and the current governor of florida. who trump advisers might be stirring the pot behind the scenes. plus, how to order a batch of free at-home covid tests as that government website goes live earlier than anybody thought this afternoon. that's seeing no limits. varilux lenses by essilor. 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>> reporter: yeah, that's right. did you say nerd alert? smr it's how we roll on this show as you know. >> reporter: i would expect nothing less, yes, this just went online a few hours ago. the white house saying that it is beta testing this. the white house press secretary jen psaki said they were starting a new website. she couldn't promise there would be a bug or two when this initially launches tomorrow. covidtest.gov is apparently operating in limited capacity. i just order my tests the a short time ago. >> oh. >> reporter: you mentioned up to four tests per household. you don't feed a credit card. you put if your name, address, supposedly it is sent out within seven-to-12 days. as you know, the white house first promises last month that each american household would get a free covid test. they have been pressed for the details now for several weeks. at first they were saying they were going to send out up to 500 million tests the, announcing an additional 500 billion. covidtest.gov website went online several hours ago if limited capacity according to white house, the official launch now set up for tomorrow. >> hey, gabe, real quick, you said you signed on, you did it yourself, fairly easy interface? no issues for you? >> reporter: yeah, it was fairly easy, you type in your name, your address, it says your tests are on the way. the question, is will it, in fact, be sent out in seven-to-12 days? there is a lot of questions, since the omicron surge now in parts of the northeast is actually plateauing, even though hospitalizations in other parts of the country is still high. there are some critique they may come toward the latter part of the month when some portion may be past the omicron surge and it was most needed. the interface as i saw it, it seemed simple. >> gabe gutierrez, live there in new york. thank you. now an nbc news reporter with a politics team following, i don't know, call it a republican family feud i guess, two of the most well-known leaders, florida governor ron desantis and former president donald trump reporting that their public and private relationship has turned sour over the last few months. here's the deal, both are talked about as professional front runners or candidates for the presidential primary. here's who our team is coming between them, mitch mcconnell, former trump's frenemy? all of this after governor desantis appeared on a podcast hosted by mcconnell's long-time advisers, blasting the president's decision to lock down during the pandemic. watch. >> i had pence and the cdc director down at port everglades talking about cruise ships in the second week of march. and no one was talking about shutting down the country. knowing now what i know then, if that was a threat earlier, i would have been much louder. >> i want to bring in john allen, one of the many heavy-hitters on this piece. it boils down to this senator mcconnell seems to be involved in a proxy war with desantis and trump. do i have that right? >> right. the mcconnell side will not say that's what's going on, if you look at what's going on across the country, the fight with desantis trump is having and now given an opportunity desantis to go on the podcast making shots at trump. what you seen is mitch mcconnell fighting for that establishment wing of the republican party that diminished wing of the republican party, kind of a survival part remember mitch mcconnell the sphere of it. the only republican in the establishment leadership position who isn't challenging the results of the election or cowtailing to former president trump. >> you make that point. not only that, john, all tow, you can look at the way senator mcconnell cast his votes related to trump in the past, they haven't talked in a while. there is plenty of no shortage of bad blood between those two and trump and desantis. >> which is ironic, to your point, when president trump was in the oval office, mitch mcconnell was helping him shuttle things through the senate and providing cover for trump on things like the first impeachment and the second impeachment. but, yes, there is a real battle going on between these two men for the future of the republican party what it looks like, if you look at polling, what donald trump has been able to do in terms of taking over the party over the course of the last five years ago it's pretty clear right now he's got the upper hand and yet his people very much see mcconnell at work here trying to thwart him and there is plenty of evidence on et. whether or not that's mitch mcconnell's goal, he is somebody who never talks about what his political goals are or machinations are, that's certainly the effect. you see this also in arizona, you know, where mitch mcconnell told one of our source, he wanted our source to go lobby to run for senate. we seen that in several other states. >> john allen, great reporting, appreciate you being on with us, thanks. coming up, can a religious flag fly over city hall? 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yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ so here's a question. is a flag flying outside a government building representative of that government's speech? the supreme court today seemed inclined to say no here's the back story. the city of boston has three flag poles outside city hall. one is for the u.s. tag, one for the state flack. then that third one they reserve for groups who want to commemorate something, things like other countries, women's rights, and pride month. that's what's happened in the past on that third flag pole. when a religious group camp constitution wanted to flag a christian flag there they got a no they said it's a representation of government speech that made it up to the supreme court with arguments today. i want to bring in justice correspondent pete williams. we love have youing read the tea leaves. do that for us. maybe the justices were siding with the christian group on this? >> reporter: yes, one for two reasons. one is what is the flag pole? if the city has a park and allows people to come in and express their views. it can't pick and choose, anybody can come in and say we need to do more to support al qaeda. the city can't stop that. on the other hand, can't ask them to print we should support aid on the tax bills, that's clearly government speech. so what is the flag pole? it seemed a majority of the justices seemed to think it was a limited public forum partly because boston in the past has exercised virtually no control over who gets to fly the flags there, countries of origin of boston's if you first community. but it basically passes them on until it hit this christian flag when it said no given that history a majority of the courts said it's probably a public forum, even though two of the justices who lived in boston, diana kagan, and the second is a constitutional question. the city said it couldn't fly the religious flag because that would be an improper government endorsement of religion. today the courts said, no, that's wrong. what we said in the past, you can't say, everybody can speak here except religious groups. you have to let everybody speak. if you let them speak, too, it's not an endorsement of religions. for all those, i think the city will lose. >> it explained the way the court and the country has tried to walk the line on this government messaging here. quickly, you can pull back? give us the why it matters piece here, if you don't live in boston and see this flag pole, explain the implications for this case and why it's so important. >> it masses for two reasons, one is other cities may want to do what boston does and allow flag poles to be used for other groups. the second is this continuing discussion about when is it a public forum, when isn't it? when is it a government endorsement? when isn't it? you see the court's decisions are something of a muddle. you can't have the ten commandments in the courthouse. you can have them in a public park, if there are other monuments. whatever goes on the license plate is government speech. the government's endorsement or approval on the trademark is not. so you can have offensive trademarks. it is a bet of a muddle. maybe we'll get more clarity. >> callss great to have you, thanks. still ahead, why that escape started, on january 6th. y 6th. >> looking to get back in your type 2 diabetes zone? once-weekly ozempic® can help. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪ ♪ oh, oh, oh ♪ ozempic® is proven to lower a1c. most people who took ozempic® reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. and you may lose weight. adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. in adults also with known heart disease, ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as heart attack, stroke, or death. ozempic® helped me get back in my type 2 diabetes zone. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. tell your provider about vision problems or changes. taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase low blood sugar risk. side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. looking to get back in your type 2 diabetes zone? 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(all) to screening! at fidelity, your dedicated advisor will work with you on a comprehensive wealth plan across your full financial picture. a plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. this is the planning effect. . this new nbc news reporting from inside the white house as the biden administration gears up one area since joe biden became president. you got recent headlines putting cut and drag, the president's approval rating approval rating has slipped more than 15 points in a year. that's on top of the voting rights legislation that as we talked about earlier in the show, seems like it's headed for basically no outcome in the senate. all causing the white house to hit the reset button with sources telling our team that president biden is going to essentially look to bypass congress and take his message straight to the american people. i want to bring in one of the reporters behind this piece. talk us through this reporting and what you're hearing from your sources on this you could call it one-year reset for president biden. >> it's really what the administration officials are saying it's a communications shift in strategy. so a reset in that regard. what they're saying is that you're going to see more, less of the president as legislator in chief. so less of president biden meeting with lawmakers on the hill, getting in the weeds on different negotiations, and instead, you'll see the president talking directly to american people and having events and speeches and things that are more in that space. and the idea is to from the white house's perspective, try to shed this image as the president as the president being the president of the senate as opposed to the president of the united states. he's gotten some criticism of that. so they don't want the president to be in those sorts of dynamics publicly so much because look, if you're negotiating it, you own it. and that's the successes and failures and we've seen a lot of failures out of congress and the president getting behind bills that haven't gone anywhere so they want to tone that down and focus on what he sees as his successes and talking to the american people about what their concerns are. >> thank you. so we talk a lot about conspiracy theories on this show. bleaching away your vaccines. nope. a dead president's dead son making an appearance. okay. a child sex ring run by world leaders out of a pizza shop. these are all nuts. you know this, right? but there are some people who have been bought in, including the subject of this new nbc news story. it follows a guy named justin as we went from the depths of these swampy chat rooms to showing up at the capitol on january 6th for what he hoped to be quote, a validation of qanon, in his words, the truth would finally get out. thinking to himself, all the world would be liberate d, everyone would be happy. joining us now, the journalist who followed his story. that moment that justin as we are calling him only by his first name, thought would be a moment of liberation was not. it was an insurrection. an attack on our democracy. what happened next for him? >> well, justin was horrified about what he was seeing so he videoed an recorded a lot of what he was seeing, which i got to see in realtime. but it sewed a seed of doubt for him so when he drove back to his parents house, because he has loving parents and a brother and a sister, they were sitting there waiting. they were watching on the television praying justin wouldn't show up on the news and they staged an intervention. they told him the emotional toll that obsession had taken on the family and it had takening a huge toll on justin, too. he lost his job. he had lost every real life connection he had and really, he lost the will to do anything except sit on the internet, read about conspiracy theories and talk to other qanon followers. >> he connected with you initially. right? he's the wurn who reached out to you which led to phone calls and zooms and as you describe it, meetings in the bitter cold for months. >> yeah, so he reached out to me in january and we were neighbors. i live in a hipster neighborhood in brooklyn and he also lives here because he is a hipster, which is weird. he calls himself a nice jewish boy, and he is. so what was important for me with this story is close your eyes and think about what you think a qanon follower is and you're probably wrong. people come in all shapes and sizes. i've talked to dozens and dozens of followers and they are moms in new mexico that do yoga and love instagram. they are owners of a mittens store in michigan. so a story like this is important because it does sort of show the just depth of what we're dealing with and how anybody is susceptible. >> and to your point, this was not like a one intervention and the flip switched for justin here. i know you quote one of his relatives, loved ones in the piece saying it was like chipping away at a block of ice. it almost felt a little bit like addiction almost. >> 100%. yeah, it was an addiction. i think justin put in terms of he was in a romantic relationship where he had just been taken for a ride then suddenly, he was without this thing and so what do you do with your life? we were uneasy, actually. both justin and i were uneasy as our relationship developed at coffee shops in brooklyn and texts. we talked a long time. justin wasn't sure he was on the other side of this until almost a year after the insurrection. so it took really a year for him crawl out. >> one of the reasons i think your reporting is so important because it doesn't always go that way for everybody. just as for justin what happened on january 6th was a trigger point for him to get out. for others, it was an entrenchment point on getting deeper into the conspiracy. >> yeah. absolutely. and i think that there are a lot of people who think that it's over. trump is no longer white house. q hasn't posted the anonymous poster hasn't posted for a year so people, a lot of people have forgotten about qanon, but it's still very much alive. they sort of sected off. we know there's one in dallas that's made the news lately. under charismatic leaders and it still exists and there are still tens of thousands of people that are entrenched in this conspiracy theory and we can see it because there's great places like a sub reddit for ex members that has a quarter of a million members. so it's still very much out there and it's important to tell these stories. >> we're so glad that you are and we're so glad you're sharing here with us here on msnbc. always great to have you on the show. thank you. thanks for watching this hour for all of you. i'll see you at 5:00 on nbc news now. but for now, deadline white house starts right after the break. for now, deadline white house starts right after the house starts right after the break. on ancestry. this is the uh registration card for the draft for world war two. and this is his signature which blew me away. being abo... make my grandfather real... not just a memory... is priceless. his legacy...lives on. age is just a number. and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. versus 16 grams in ensure high protein. boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein. ever wonder what everyone's doing on their phones? 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